Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)
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I've heard this is a scumtell.In post 11, IceGuy wrote:OMGUS!
VOTE: IceGuy
I think we found one guys.- UnaBombaH
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Funnily enough, it didn't feel genuine to me.In post 23, Realeo wrote:Well, bleeding is too strong of a word. Town lean maybe.
Almost LAMIST.- UnaBombaH
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I thought it had a familiar artstyle!In post 28, Luca Blight wrote:And the game is Suikoden II - nostalgia from my childhood.
Suikodens 1&2 are possibly the best games of their genre.
Collecting your own base and army..THAT COOKING COMPETITION!
Nostalgia is stronk UNVOTE:- UnaBombaH
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That "naked vote" - mine or his?In post 110, CommKnight wrote:This deserves more attention. That naked vote is ew.
Grapes gets a small dose of towncred for provoking people into posting.
I'll post tonight, I just need to regain some strenght after last night..- UnaBombaH
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What part of my serious RVS-vote you don't understand?In post 124, Chip Butty wrote:My vote on you isn't naked. It is clear that i voted you because you voted Duckworth without giving a reason, and went to the trouble to confirm it as a serious vote.
I mention a video game in the same post as a reason for not voting someone else anymore..it was a very serious reason too.
Luca is locktown for me now, he can roll to scum!victory if he wants to, just because he likes Suikoden.- UnaBombaH
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I'm comfortable with this, maybe put me one slot higher in your next list?In post 158, Mulch wrote:I guess a really rough readslist (it's so early, although it is an open game) would be:
Mulch/Assemble/Grapes
Alch
Comm/ (maybe Chip?)
Iron/Duck/Una
Realeo/Luca
Game
Ice
Can you explain why it being an open game affects how early reads can form?- UnaBombaH
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This is my thoughts exactly!In post 243, Alchemist21 wrote:The whole dynamic between Chip, Comm, and Realeo seems like a case of people not understanding each other. Wouldn't call it AI either way for any of them.
I was thinking I'm either very stupid for not understanding the dynamic, or they are working poorly as a scumteam..
I'm going to ISO our top-posters soon, I think we have atleast one scum in the top-5.- UnaBombaH
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I have been rather quiet, yes, but it's mainly because I didn't want to take any part in...whatever happened in the past 5 pages.In post 239, Alchemist21 wrote:It's also brought Una to my attention as he's someone who I haven't really noticed in this game.
I get a lot better when I have more interactions to evaluate, and these previous instances have been rather baffling.
I'm going to ISO a few players soon, I'll try to get something easier to chew for you guys.- UnaBombaH
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This part is the most important one: I'm not one to normally shitpost through the game.In post 246, Alchemist21 wrote:Do you have any actual thoughts on the game currently?I looked back through your posts and it's all jokes and pointless posts.You must have some reads by now, even if they're weak.
I've been trying a new approach to day 1.
The thing is: I suck at early game reading because I don't "understand" tone.
I mainly read interactions, and this game had very few good ones in the first 5 pages or so.
I already admitted as much: they all felt very weird and instead of AI reads, I felt like some of it almost gave better indications on IQs..
In a game like this that has either a slower start, or interactions I can't read well enough to react, I now tried to pull the focus on my own actions.
Anyone who has been noting my behavior in a negative manner so far has been gaining some minor towncred from me.
The thing about scum is that they want players who aren't "gamesolve-y" to make it to the lategame, and therefore don't always latch onto people who post, but only "keep appearances".
And that is what I have been trying to create: fluff.
Alchemistis my first townread simply because they took the step to call me out on it.
On the other hand, I DO have one scumlean based on how they put their vote on me.
IceGuyvoted after Alchemist had "bit the bullet" in making a base for a wagon, and instead of following his reasonable argument, IceGuy only said he is willing to vote all lurkers and just happened to choose me from amongst them.
And therefore I shall VOTE: IceGuy.
Slight townlean onLuca Blightfor calling IceGuy out before I got to it. (and also the Suikoden thing, that actually affects my gameplay..)- UnaBombaH
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No need to be rude.In post 270, Realeo wrote:So I, representing ChipButty, am going to vote you.
Chip Butty votes UnaBombah
Overtheorising."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Don't worry, I got that you were joking.In post 274, Realeo wrote:Do you know that mafiascum is the only forum where my joke delivery rate is literally 0%?
I meant my post more along the lines of "you shouldn't be mocking ChipButty".
Ah, The Old Reddit Switch-a-roo..?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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In post 281, Chip Butty wrote:I don't know what a Vedith is, and I'm not feeling adventurous, so no.WHATVedith is?
I'll give you a quick rundown:
\o/"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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This is so Town...........In post 290, IceGuy wrote:However, if the UnaBombaH wagon falls apart and there's a wagon on any of the other three (and they do not start being towny posters), I will immediately switch. I would also switch back if there's a UnaBombaH wagon after all and he doesn't suddenly start to become town.
My post/vote are far from OMGUS IceGuy.
If you can't handle being scumread and can't see which actions trigger that read onto you, then you need to inspect your own play more and try to see if there is a pattern.
If you THINK you aren't playing "scummy" as town, but people scumread you, then you need to find another way to communicate if you want to play with more success: you can't change how others see you.."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Go ISO-dive me and see how I play.In post 292, Alchemist21 wrote:I don't really like how you start claiming your fluff was fully intentional after getting called on it.
This is what I do.
I also don't mind being scumread, because I understand that as long as I'm not mislynched for it, people should be able to make distinctions between "acting scummy" and "playing for scum win-condition"."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I like this.In post 298, Luca Blight wrote:I'm in no way defending the lurkers - I am questioning the motivation behind your current stance, that a lynch of any lurker will do. It's such an easy path of no resistance to go down, and it doesn't sit right with me. There would be no issue if you had at least attempted to interact with the lurkers and draw reads out of them, but to just brand them all 'useless' and say any of them can be lynched is at best anti-town, and at worst a very scummy thing to do.
And I sort of like you."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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And I'm starting to reluctantly like this too...!In post 300, Realeo wrote:
I endorse both product. Both of you get my virtual cookie.UnaBombaH wrote:
I like this.In post 298, Luca Blight wrote:I'm in no way defending the lurkers - I am questioning the motivation behind your current stance, that a lynch of any lurker will do. It's such an easy path of no resistance to go down, and it doesn't sit right with me. There would be no issue if you had at least attempted to interact with the lurkers and draw reads out of them, but to just brand them all 'useless' and say any of them can be lynched is at best anti-town, and at worst a very scummy thing to do.
And I sort of like you."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Maybe I shouldn't...?In post 302, Realeo wrote:Why you feel shame for townreading me?
Nope, I definitely should be ashamed!
"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I heard Mafia '15 had those buggy Micros...literally every OMGUS resulted in a lynch."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'm a bit surprised after reading the last few pages for being scumread/-leaned by so many of you!
Time to try and churn out content now that I've closed some of my other games.. (and no more fluff )
Most of these are still "gutreads", but the ones in the extremes are more based on exact interactions.
Townread:
Alchemistfor his general posting and interactions, absolutely no scumvibes there for me.
Luca Blightmainly for his IceGuy-interaction, albeit being on the aggressive side (would be easier to fake imo, but think it was genuine).
Some posts where I felt our thoughts are on similar tracks.
Townlean:
Mulchmainly for his catch-up, have to admit I'm a bit weirded out with him not spamming whole pages alone, but maybe that is for the best?
Realeofor his general tone: feels very relaxed yet confident. Haven't noticed any hesitance when commenting on anything! Feels genuine. "Defending" IceGuy based on meta is either confident Town, or very brave scum.
grapes/CommKnightmainly on gut. Really liked grapes early walls when re-read, and CommKnights "compilation-post" and readslist.
Zero factors:
Assemblerotws, ironstove(I'm not one to advocate lynching lurkers, but this one is just awful.. )
Scumlean:
Chip Butty/GameNBurger/Duckworthmainly for gut-feels. They are all new players to me, and I'm currently thinking there's at least one scum here.
CommKnight townleaning GameNBurger based on meta sort of worries me.
Duckworth has posted very little, and is closest to being "relegated" just by that alone.
(this is currently the hardest bunch for me to sort)
Scum:
IceGuyfor reasons multiple. Don't like any of his posts, and even though I don't dislike him for voting me, I dislike the reasoning.
How? What?In post 247, IceGuy wrote:UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing.Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.
So he votes for any of the lurkers, but votes for the one who posts..?
I know, he says he dislikes what I post too (and I don't blame him for that), but why bring up the inactivity at all then?
Just so that he can say that he is willing to vote all the other lurkers too? (= not willing to commit).
This is one of the worst posts I have seen.. Well, I bet he will go in depth on his read on me when he makes his next list!In post 290, IceGuy wrote:I haven't changed my vote from UnaBombaH and I currently do not intend doing so (especially with his first "content" post, which is basically OMGUS). I still hope the UnaBombaH wagon goes through.
However, if the UnaBombaH wagon falls apart and there's a wagon on any of the other three (and they do not start being towny posters), I will immediately switch. I would also switch back if there's a UnaBombaH wagon after all and he doesn't suddenly start to become town.
.............In post 375, IceGuy wrote:UnaBombaH - I believe I have already talked about this. Scum, currently voting
I want to hear actual cases if anyone can seriously defend IceGuy at this point.
I know Realeo made some thought-provoking arguments about IceGuys meta, but I'm not willing to let that slide over everything."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Please don't go down that route...In post 398, Realeo wrote:My readlist is pretty much IceGuys's readlist unless I say otherwise."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'm seriously starting to get frustrated with the amount I am misread or misunderstood, and that doesn't happen very often.
Indeed, I don't know who does.In post 401, Realeo wrote:I am ashamed that I just realize that I don't know IceGuy's fos reasoning for UnaBoombah.
I was only referencing my own position on the list.In post 402, Realeo wrote:I know that you said you're comfortable with this, so it's not exactly mirrors your read, but some of the difference is too starking that makes me think "Really, the difference is still small enough that you are comfortable?"
I feel very comfortable in the middle: the top townreads get NK'd, while the bottomreads get lynched.
My comment was with a light-hearted tone of "I'm happy being in the middle, but you cant notch me one step up".
Notice the exact phrasing I used: "maybe put me one slot higher in your next list? "
Simple as that.
I don't think anyone can fill IceGuys questionable spots, but please make me fill mine.In post 403, Realeo wrote:I am not willing to vote yet. I think UnaBoombah and IceGuy still have questionable spots which can be filled if given the opportunity.
Ask away.
In post 405, IceGuy wrote:Re UnaBombaH:
Begging for town reads is not towny behavior, being useful to town and getting read as town is.In post 161, UnaBombaH wrote: I'm comfortable with this, maybe put me one slot higher in your next list?Please, read above. This post has been misunderstood and overanalyzed way too much.
No, you are not getting away with this bullshit.In post 405, IceGuy wrote:His first reads in #269 are lazy: he townreads a player pretty much everybody townreads, calls me scum for voting him (after two other people have also called me scum), and has a "slight townlean" on the guy that started the wagon on me. There's not a single original thought in that post except for "I was doing it ON PURPOSE!" which isn't really believable.
You do not even read what I write about you if you say something like this.
I. DO. NOT. THINK. YOU. ARE. SCUM. FOR. VOTING. ME.
I think you are scum because of the "reasoning", or better yet, the lack of it.
And you are the leading expert on the usefulness of them, eh?In post 405, IceGuy wrote:He then continues to post fluff until two hours ago, where he posts a read list. However, those reads are mostly useless.
"Three reads carry over" - go figure. I read someone as such and such...and I'm being consistent?!?In post 405, IceGuy wrote:The three reads from before carry over, except that Chip Butty is now town instead of a "slight townlean", but the justification is the same. Five players are read "mainly on gut", two players are neutral as lurkers (which I understand, they really lurk). The Mulch read is useless fluff ("for the catch-up", yeah we know he caught up, but WHY?) and the Realeo read is the only useful read, except many have said essentially the same thing.
"five players are read on gut" - worse than your "better lynch lurkers, so that I get more time fabricating reads"? I need time to solidify those reads, sure, but my gut has been right before.
"Mulch for the catch-up" - you think it meant literally "for catching up"? It means that I liked his catch-up post. You know, the one where he had the spoiler titled "the catch up" or something like that..?
"many have said the same about Realeo" - Who? Where? If someone used the same exact words or reasonings, then good on them, because I think that is some smart reading.
You find arguments against me from what everyone else posts, and then claim that I DO NOT HAVE ORIGINAL THOUGHTS?In post 405, IceGuy wrote:The read on me is based on posts from way back and basically parrots Luca a few days ago. Considering I'm his only scum read, I'd think he post something about my reads or the "first place on the townie list" thing, but he doesn't.
tl;dr: There is not a single original thought in any of his posts, but he keeps up appearances of contributing.
...I could actually get mad at this, if anyone I townread or appreciate would say this.
This isn't 100% true either: I like to joke for the sake of joking, but I also like to post fluff early while not committing, to see who attacks me for it.In post 406, Chip Butty wrote:UnabombaH is a popular topic of discussion. This is a guy who likes to joke around a bit, so don't take everything he says too seriously. But it is true what is being said: there's a lot of fluff and not much else early on. I dont think it is bad that he defends himself against the fluff accusation. That's pretty much how things go, accusation followed by defence. I can understand where he is coming from because i consciously post fluff too. After all, this is supposed to be fun.
I've seen many scumplayers who try too hard to scumread people without actual content (like IceGuy), while towny people who are ACTUALLY scumhunting take notice on "fake-presence".
Like in this particular game you can go and read IceGuys progression on me: he starts with a vote for "no content" and then when I make my first post he calls it OMGUS (which it wasn't), followed by him realizing that he can use everybody elses reads/opinions on me, and push that.
Voila!
A scumplayer, who now doesn't have to look for another fake-scumread, because he got fuel for my case from others."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'm very good at face-to-face Mafia.In post 416, Realeo wrote:@UnaBombaH When someone have a play style change, something happen that motivates the play style change. What happened?
I only joined this site this summer, and I have since won two games and lost six. (although, the six losses have all been replacements in, I think.. )
I tried to figure what I'm doing wrong/correct before this game started, and I also realized that this game has only two(?) players I have played with previously, so I thought now is a good time to test things out.
On this site, my playstyle has always been about provoking others to commit/disengage and force interactions.
I like to fuel conversations, and pretend to be even more paranoid than I actually am (I mean I am, but not to the extent I seem to be)
Some players have therefore called me "mislynchable" or even "lynchbaity", but my gutreads have often been correct.
I base most of my reads on interactions between other players, less on singular posts, but I can do that too.
This is why D1 is always hard for me: the start is often slow, and people are trying NOT to seem scummy at all.
So I decided to go a different route with my newer games: I try to draw attention to myself early game without being outright scummy, and try to gather as much reads before N1 as possible.
Then depending on the NK, I believe I can have a very solid vision on who might be scum.
In the games where I join as replacement, I often get guiltied into changing my reads by more experienced players, because they devalue my logic or reads, but I have turned out to be correct multiple times now (even if I have failed in presenting the case).
So now I have also decided to stick to my reads if I'm feeling confident on them, and then just face the consequences if I miss.
I feel confident in IceGuy being scum."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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In post 411, Chip Butty wrote:
Has anyone pointed out the last para is so LAMIST? I think someone pointed out that the Alch quote here is also LAMIST.In post 14, CommKnight wrote:
Hehe, good luck with that You're going need a long con plan to get me back for that one. Also the last run of this set-up I actually called out the entire scum team rather early but other townies either did something that caught my eye more or I second guessed myself in the reads. So this time around, when I start pegging people, they're going to be ran up the damn wall fully this time. No backing off hard reads this run.In post 13, Alchemist21 wrote:
If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.
Also this time around if I were mafia, I could just nightkill people rather than pull a "Hey, we got them cornered guys, so they had to put 3 townies up on the block" Hehehe, that was a risky move on my part, but so worth it.
Anyway, I gotta prepare for class. This time around I won't be as talkative as before (maybe) because of classes ongoing. But I feel bad for scum this game, I notice a lot of new faces to this duo. If Alchemist is town this game, you fucked mafia, you completely fucked.
You're only a little under 400 posts late..!In post 30, UnaBombaH wrote:
Funnily enough, it didn't feel genuine to me.In post 23, Realeo wrote:Well, bleeding is too strong of a word. Town lean maybe.
Almost LAMIST."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'll post when I get home.
Apparently there's now a reason to assume IceGuys teammate is on my wagon."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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This is one post people should 100% return to if I'm lynched today.In post 596, CommKnight wrote:Aside from Realeo the wagon on Ice Guy is filled with non-townie players. So I'm going to stick to my guns and stay on Una. Obviously they're trying to divert away from Una.
Read this with the context that I am Town, and IceGuy is likely scum, and you find one partner here who will backpedal later.
This post is nothing but preparing a wagon on Mulch/Luca and posing as town while trying to pocket Realeo (who is also going to be NK'd at this pace btw).
Mark this post down - my initial townlean on CommKnight was because he was townreading Realeo, and it felt like he was judging people with reasoning, not just jumping on to conclusions.
Mulch is probably the only one here who has played with me more than once, and has done some serious interacting in another game, so I'm not surprised my D1 play has worked so well."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'll try format this on a tablet: my answers are in white..
In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote: Townread:
Alchemistfor his general posting and interactions, absolutely no scumvibes there for me.For example how he approached my slot.
It felt like he was genuinely trying to sort me.
Not straight up tunneling, but not just poking for easy town cred either.
I feel like Alchemist is trying to sort us all, and gamesolve to his best ability.In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote:Realeofor his general tone: feels very relaxed yet confident. Haven't noticed any hesitance when commenting on anything! Feels genuine. "Defending" IceGuy based on meta is either confident Town, or very brave scum.
Just like Alchemist, it's his overall presence.In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/.php?p=9635583#p9635583]post 557[/url], grapes wrote:Curious where you've seen confidence in particular from realeo?
I trust my reads the most when I get the feeling the player could say "anything" and still come across genuine. Maybe not scum claim, but almost anything.
I rarely Townread people based on joking and shitposting, but Realeo somehow managed to do that.
If he is scum, he is very talented.In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote:grapes/CommKnightmainly on gut. Really liked grapes early walls when re-read, and CommKnights "compilation-post" and readslist.Sidenote: you two I was honestly the most undecided on, amongst the players who actually had content.
My read on CommKnight tipped downwards today.
In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote: Zero factors:
Assemblerotws, ironstove(I'm not one to advocate lynching lurkers, but this one is just awful.. )
The one that comment is attached on.In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/.php?p=9635583#p9635583]post 557[/url], grapes wrote:Which one? You've got two names here.
I don't think lurking is NAI, but Doge should never reach LyLo with these posts..
In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote: Scumlean:
Chip Butty/GameNBurger/Duckworthmainly for gut-feels. They are all new players to me, and I'm currently thinking there's at least one scum here.
CommKnight townleaning GameNBurger based on meta sort of worries me.
I meant that it worried me, that I townleaned CommKnight, and rather strongly scumleaned GameNBurger.In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/.php?p=9635583#p9635583]post 557[/url], grapes wrote:Why is this a thing that looks like you're weighing for your gameburger read?
I was also weighing in whether GnB would have been outright scum for me, if CommKnight hadn't "cleared" him based on meta.
Taking into consideration how my feelings on CommKnight shifted today, this actually pops up to me too.
Good of you to point it out.
In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote: Duckworth has posted very little, and is closest to being "relegated" just by that alone.Relegated to "Scum". I feel like IceGuy is the "vocal scum" of their respective team, so someone like Duck could be the "lurky scum".
Duck outright voting IceGuy on his "caught up reading"-post supports this. It felt like distancing.
In post 399, UnaBombaH wrote: Scum:
IceGuyfor reasons multiple. Don't like any of his posts, and even though I don't dislike him for voting me, I dislike the reasoning.
How? What?In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=9625032#p9625032]post 247[/url], IceGuy wrote:UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing.Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.
So he votes for any of the lurkers, but votes for the one who posts..?
I know, he says he dislikes what I post too (and I don't blame him for that), but why bring up the inactivity at all then?
Just so that he can say that he is willing to vote all the other lurkers too? (= not willing to commit).In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/.php?p=9635583#p9635583]post 557[/url], grapes wrote:How is saying that he'd be willing to vote in the lurker-pool not committing to voting in the lurker pool?Not fully committing to a strong scumread.
That is what I meant: he says he is willing to vote any of the lurkers, so he has an easy escape if anyone scumreads him, for voting me.
He has later tried to correct this by bringing more arguments to his case, but the problem is that he voted me first with a "for now"-mentality, and has since tried his harderst to find reasons to keep his vote on me.
He didn't organically arrive at scumreading me: he decided to scumread me the most out of "all the lurkers", and then has just grasped at reasons to stay on me.
I'm not sure if this is a loaded question or not.In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/.php?p=9635583#p9635583]post 557[/url], grapes wrote:Do you think it would have been scummier if he had voted someone else in the pool?
I don't think his vote on ANYONE, even me, was/would've been scummy.
It was HOW and WHY he voted + how he has stuck to his vote, which pings me as scum."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Some stream of consciousness before I'm off for the night.
I still 100% think IceGuy should be the lynch today.
I find it weird that I felt a sensation of "A-HA" when I was answering on the wall above: this is regarding CommKnight and GnB slots.
I do not currently scumread Alchemist or ChipButty, I'm actually erring on "promoting" Chip to a strongish townread.
I currently only scumread/-lean Ice Guy, GameNBurger and CommKight, but they are all wagoning me. I don't want to accept that three scum would gather on me D1, especially with the risk of IceGuy flipping today, and flipping scum.
Mulches reads on me have been accurate, and he is the only one who has played with me before. Assemble hasn't commented much, but he has been on same games with me - don't know how well he can sort me.
Realeo unvoting IceGuy COULD be susp. actually: if he is scum with IceGuy, he might want to keep an appearence of joining the IceGuy-wagon, but wouldn't want to go all the way to a lynch?
Dislike the idea, but it's possible.
Same with Duck: dislike his straight away vote."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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No, the motives could be different.In post 611, Realeo wrote:
You couldn't dislike both my unvote and his vote. That is contradiction.In post 609, UnaBombaH wrote:Realeo unvoting IceGuy COULD be susp. actually: if he is scum with IceGuy, he might want to keep an appearence of joining the IceGuy-wagon, but wouldn't want to go all the way to a lynch?
Dislike the idea, but it's possible.
Same with Duck: dislike his straight away vote
He would be distancing from IceGuy by joining - you would avoid lynching your buddy by jumping off.
Obviously the two things ARE mutually exclusive, but I'm not making a contradiction."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Because the basis of his original vote on you wasn't based on lurkyness.In post 613, IceGuy wrote:Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Such as?In post 613, IceGuy wrote:No, the reason is that you produced more and more reasons you're scum.
You haven't cased my "more and more" yet.
You waved it off earlier by saying that "you have already covered it".
Well you haven't.
If it's still the same reason of me playing a scummier start of D1, have you just discredited/bypassed all my later posts?
Or is it the fact that you know that if I'm not lynched today, it is likely you?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Because circumstances matter not?In post 613, IceGuy wrote:So first you call me scum for willing to vote several people, and now you're calling me scum for sticking with my vote on you. It looks like it's you who is finding more arguments.
I don't think you have reconsidered your read on me once.
And THAT reeks of scum to me too - you are afraid to let go of "scumreading" or scumreading me.
Which is it?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I wrote in length because I suddenly realized there was possibly something deeper there.In post 624, grapes wrote:Didn't mind una's response to me but I wanna follow up with this a touch.
Was there anything else besides the townread? Because i wasn't so much pointing anything out as I was alarmed at how the only thing you had to say about gamenburger was something about another slot's read on them when they were apparently a strong scumlean.In post 608, UnaBombaH wrote:I meant that it worried me, that I townleaned CommKnight, and rather strongly scumleaned GameNBurger.
I was also weighing in whether GnB would have been outright scum for me, if CommKnight hadn't "cleared" him based on meta.
Taking into consideration how my feelings on CommKnight shifted today, this actually pops up to me too.
Good of you to point it out.
I sort of had a big moment there while writing to you"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I have to go sleeping now - I honestly hope to be alive when I come back.
If you decide to lynch me during the time I'm not around, I want to give my honest top three scum-reads/guesses:
IceGuy
CommKnight
GameNBurger
Go for IceGuy D2 if I'm not around, that should give a ton of context as a flip, even if I'm wrong on my read on him.
There should be zero chance there's not a scum on my wagon if I get hammered. (currently there is a SMALL chance, but I doubt it)"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'm back from my beauty sleep.
We waiting for a Duck-claim?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I have a timer set to 9,5 hours from here.."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Wait, can you give me your top3 scumreads before you go?In post 662, Mulch wrote:If I go to sleep, can one of you confirm you will be online to hammer before deadline?
You are a somewhat realistic NK too, and I think you can have good intuitial reads."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I'm in charge of a work project that will keep me busy until AT LEAST sunday 8th.
I will read tomorrow and probably have a window to post something too, but I will not be my usual post-happy-self until sunday or monday.
I'm the first to admit that I was wrong on my read on IceGuy, and CommKnight is correct to drag my ass through the townmarket while people laugh at me for my 600.
My gut was wrong, what can I say?
Also: IceGuy was almost 100% the vig-kill, because he would've been a VERY viable mislynch for scum today.
So GameNBurgers reads should be nit-picked through."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I don't have the mental fortitude to argue right now, I have been working for 11 days straight, and I'm tired.
Just realize that I'm not scum.
If you can't do it without me providing content, then be patient for a few days.
If you still feel like I'm scum after I have fired away, then sure, lynch me away.
Post questions or case me or whatever, I'll try to answer this sunday."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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So I stop by to read before I'm off to work, and I have three votes (would be 4/6 but mulch changed).
If at least one of them isn't scum after I said I can mainly just read for two days, likely not make any huge posts, Im surprised.
If I were to be scum, I would have known IceGuy to be town.
So do tell me, why would I shout my throat sore for a 1v1 with him ON DAY 1?
Lynching him was a possibility UNTIL Duck wagon took wind. (I guess so were I, but you might get the point soon)
I don't have time to even check, but there is one scum in the very start of Ducks wagon. (Vote1 or Vote2)
Because scums plan was to feed me vs Ice today and force another mislynch D2.
THAT is why Duck was the lynch.
THAT is why I know Ice was vigged.
Will try to read and post tomorrow."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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On a break: I didn't even remember my 631!
So scum/vig killed 2/3 of my scumreads and they all turned out to be town...HMMMM.
I sort of have to be scum at this point, right?
@Whoever is Vig: I like your style.
@Whoever is scum: I think you should've killed elsewhere and I would've been an even easier lynch..
Quick thoughts, no formatting:
If GameNBurger wasn't NK'd, I would've tunneled a lot on him today.
Who said GameNBurger scumread me?
One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.
I try to be back tomorrow/sunday."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Passing by again.In post 765, CommKnight wrote:
What Assemble said, and LOL. Riiight. Gotta be me or Alch right, at least one of us.In post 762, UnaBombaH wrote: One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.
VOTE: Una
I wanted you dead yesterday and then the quick-lynch happened on Duck. You're not escaping this time.
I just think GameNBurger was a weird kill over either of you, but maybe it's just me?
Also: how does no one think it weird that scum!Una would kill EITHER Ice or Game?
Especially Ice, but I think that was the vig.
Seriously, I don't have time until tomorrow or Sunday, but think about the night actions from scum!Una perspective.
Think about me tunneling Ice as hard as I did, why would I throw my everything into one specific lynch DAY 1?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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This exactly was my point.In post 763, Assemblerotws wrote:He literally expressed his scumread on you every chance he got.
Would be stupidly obvious kill from scum!Una, and would also mean I was leading the scum teams decisions.
On my first scum game? (actual one)
Lynching me is a poor decision, we should be discussing the vig-pool already.
Include me in that if you want to."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Phew, finally have some time to post.
I'll check the deadline and all soon, but if I have time to collect my thoughts and post, I'm OK with being the lynch vs no-lynching or another rushed wagon.
Writing now, trying to rack up as much as possible."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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Agree with this one.In post 873, ironstove wrote:So, my take on the whole interaction between mulch vs chip and butts is that they're not both scum.
This feels like a clumsy scum-move of trying to keep up appearances..I mean, it feels like he is worried about looking scummy, AFTER HIS PLAY ON D1?In post 873, ironstove wrote:My fear is that if una flips town, this makes me look bad because I was the first to vote for him and pushed for his lynch. I don't think he's town though.
I am town, and this makes me think he knows it.
...and then he is back to making points I agree with. So either he is scum, dropping some real reads amongst his posts, or he is a townie who feels fake when trying to convey emotions.In post 873, ironstove wrote:I think commknight's 792 trying to direct the vig shot is something I generally see scum players trying to do. Town players who do this tend to be big-dick type players but comm has not really played in that style, so it appears to be more motivated from the standpoint of a scum trying to get vig to shoot town/not shoot scum.
Then again, he is roleplaying a dog.
And the ensuing exchange between them feels like SvT (or TvS).In post 876, ironstove wrote:Eh, actually I changed my mind. I think mulch is scum now. I read through his ISO and his previous games as town and scum. I have to agree this is scum mulch.
Would love to hear an explanation for this one, since I don't explicitly disagree.In post 926, ironstove wrote:I think the conclusion here is that commknight is scum."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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This was my thought too, was VERY disappointed in the IceGuy flip..In post 683, Realeo wrote:My conclusion was "One. UNA's wagon reached more attraction--but lose its power easier--because he was the mislynch."
I agree with this statement. I also disagreed with how the Duckworth-wagon formed.In post 708, Realeo wrote:One does not simply hammer someone without a claim.
Imagine it from my POV (and accept that I am town for the time you read this):
It felt like either me or IceGuy was going to be the lynch D1, almost 100% surely. I'm conf.town to myself AND I scumread IceGuy, so I felt comfortable with the situation, because I was sure we would nail scum at least D2 if I were to be the lynch D1. I felt like it was for certain there was scum on my wagon, because I thought they were trying to divert us from their buddy (Ice).
Then BOTH wagons are overturned by the Duckworth-lynch, AND I was absolutely sure Ice was scum.
Then we wake up to two townflips coming into D2, including IceGuy and GameNBurger.
Now I'm in a situation where my #1 scumread was Vig'ed, and the player who scumread me the harderst was NK'd! (my assumptions, make the most sense to me this way around)
Now there is no reason to assume anything about scum positioning in the wagons, because THEY WERE ALL ON TOWN.
And this is how I arrived at Alch/Comm having at least one scum in them.
They felt like the strongest townplayers D1, yet they both only drove wagons on town, including today on me.
I re-read GameNBurgers ISO, and I'm confident there was no apparent reason to NK him over Comm/Alch.
IceGuy as scums NK makes no sense: they could've kept us 1v1'ing all of D2, and guaranteed a lynch on town.
I was wondering the same.In post 768, Realeo wrote:Speaking of UNA's night kill--I have a question: Why am I not dead? Am I not towntelling enough?
Scum would know I'm town, and would probably just say they object to lynching me for towncred, with no need to nitpick words in this specific situation. I'm further locking Realeo as town now.In post 815, Realeo wrote:I object to Una's lynch.
Well, it's not really object. It's more to delay it."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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No, it shouldn't hurt town, might hurt scum if my reads happen to make any sense to anyone.In post 760, Chip Butty wrote:^The Una bit is probably ok, but it can't hurt to wait for him to get back.
WAIT WHAT?In post 777, Chip Butty wrote:I think we do need to see Una flip. Intent to hammer.
Any objections from anyone? Speak now or stfu later...Una, any final words in your defence?
Okay, I'll give it a few hours. We've heard from Una a few times, so he has had a chance to mount a defence.
And this was AFTER I had stopped by to say that I can't provide anything before sat/sun, and only 17 posts after his latest..?
DISLIKE, but maybe NAI?
..and yet he seems certain Mulch is scum.In post 784, Chip Butty wrote:Tip your hat Mulchy, it's over. Hyperaggressive Mulch = scum.Mulch
But intent to hammer me, right?
This is where CB enters a good feud with Mulch and to some degree, Realeo..
Feeling fairly confident that Realeo is town, and CB vs mulch doesn't feel like S/S..so which is scum?
Oh, he is still having the intent to hammer me.In post 840, Chip Butty wrote:You're mistakenly conflating two distinct things. Una is the lynch. Here we are talking about the vig pool.
Good thing for me that he has only "intended" to do that until I returned, and has provided content in his interactions with Mulch and Realeo.
The thing is, I DO NOT THINK SCUM WOULD CLAIM INTENT AND THEN NOT HAMMER, NOT WITH THE WAGON ON ME BEING SET TO SO MANY.
I like this post, and it would fit with my growing suspicion on CommKnight+Mulch.In post 848, Chip Butty wrote:So you are tailoring the pool quite a bit. And one interpretation is that you are scum with one or both of Realeo and Mulch.
I'm not even mad.In post 849, Chip Butty wrote:After being on Una before Duck and also rating the chances of Ice/Una being T/T as very low, scum.me would totally bus Una.
If I was scum I'd be pissed at my teammates if they didn't wagon me after the 1v1 I had D1.
This is also why I dislike people scumreading me after my actions D1: Might repeat myself, but Scum!Una wouldn't invest so heavily into a 1v1 this early, and if I did, I would've made sure they are actually lynched.
If the orange text is what Chip wants to know, then there's two of us.In post 922, Chip Butty wrote:In post 921, Assemblerotws wrote:I mean, it's awesome that you've dropped in to update us with your latest thoughts, but can we have a side of reasons to go with that?
Massive townread on Comm ATM.
...
Not letting up on Una, but thanks to the behavior of Ironstove and Chip, he is no longer my only scumread."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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I felt very desperate at the start of D2, but I'm feeling very confident in having 2/3 scum in CommKnight/Mulch/Assembletrows.
Assemble likely being the traitor, considering his D1 speculations on the role."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?
If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?
Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?
And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?
If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
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This feels like town!mulch, as far as I am concerned.In post 934, Mulch wrote:Una:
How do I see the game right now? I think Iron has a very high chance to flip scum, and Chip a decently high chance to flip scum. Assemble has a greater than average chance to flip scum, same with you, and same with Luca. Although, considering the way that Iron and Chip have been pushing you, you are probably not be scum if both of them flip scum. I think Alch, Grapes, Comm, Realeo are really towny, and probably don't have more than 1 scum in them. I would say Realeo is my highest townread at this point.
I can see why someone would scumread me, because everyone is always paranoid of me. I'm good scum so people always think I'm scum when I'm town because they want to have the accomplishment of beating someone good at scum. So through that and PoE, yeah I can see. I do not see how someone can scumread me through association because every single person pushed one of the top 2 wagons so there is no validity to scumreading someone for that. ANd I definitely don't see the bullshit reasons Iron and Chip are scumreading me for.
I think Alch is town, but I don't know how much I value his townplay . I don't think I've ever played with him as town?
If I were to accept that as a fact:
Realeo is the lockedest of Townies ( ), Grapes right behind him.
I would have to still keep valuing between scum!Comm and scum!Alch. I can't shake the feeling there's one scum there, and since mulch doesn't scumread either, I don't have any help there.
Assemble gains more scum-points since mulch agrees there.
Chip and Iron are the ones I'm most conflicted on already, but I don't think they are necessarily scum for pushing me, but ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE TO BE, if all of the above apply.
Unless I have locked Luca as town too early?
Although I townread this post from mulch, I flat out disagree with few of his reads.
I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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UnaBombaH Jack of All Trades
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You misunderstood me: I haven't changed my read on mulch yet.In post 936, Alchemist21 wrote:How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.
It says above "IF I were to accept" mulch as town, THEN the following apply.
I still think my earlier list is more likely."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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Same as above.In post 939, ironstove wrote:so una, you're basically saying i'm scum and mulch is town?
are you confident mulch vs me was scum vs town? or are you just saying that to talk?
i'm trying to understand what you feel confident about because it sounds like a load of bullshit coming out of you.
I think that one post was town!mulch, but it takes more than one to turn my read completely around.
But to put it simply: yes, I think one of you and mulch might be scum, but not both."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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OK, have a while to post again.
I wasn't backtracking on anything..?In post 955, Alchemist21 wrote:You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.
I said "If I were to accept" = I'm not automatically/fully accepting mulch as town, I just think his response to me was genuine.
I don't think it's out of his scum-plays range to produce town-flavored posts here and there as scum, but that specific post FELT genuine.
So I made a hypothetical list with him as town, because I wanted to clear my thoughts on how it would affect my own readslist.
Notice how I say in the end of that same post "Although I townreadthis postfrom mulch,I flat out disagree with few of his reads."
I feel like Alch is refusing to give me a fair assessment, and is only sticking to his current read.
Even though it can be stubborn NAI, I dislike it anyway."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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In post 956, Alchemist21 wrote:You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.
I trust his reads, and in the scenario where he is scum, he risks exposing himself if he is forced to give a read.In post 935, UnaBombaH wrote:I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.
..because you have realized I will not be vigged? I shouldn't be the lynch, period.In post 957, Alchemist21 wrote:I disagree with moving Una to the vig pool instead of outright lynching him."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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I think people missed this..!In post 960, Realeo wrote:Where is ironstove when I'm hoping for him to grill una?"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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In post 963, grapes wrote:
And I don't really like any of these questions.In post 933, UnaBombaH wrote:@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?
If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?
Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?
And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?
If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!
First one is way too general.
Second one is outright scummy I think.
Third ones relevance is questionable.
@Una, can you walk me through why you asked these questions and how they helped you get a better read on mulch?This was to prompt his readlist (got it btw). But this was also just a "warm-up" question to get to the other two.
This was to force him to talk about himself. Notice how he answered:In post 934, Mulch wrote:I can see why someone would scumread me, because everyone is always paranoid of me. I'm good scum so people always think I'm scum when I'm town because they want to have the accomplishment of beating someone good at scum. So through that and PoE, yeah I can see. I do not see how someone can scumread me through association because every single person pushed one of the top 2 wagons so there is no validity to scumreading someone for that. ANd I definitely don't see the bullshit reasons Iron and Chip are scumreading me for.He answered with a strong and confident tone. He took the perspective of "of course I am obv.town, but if I reeally stretch, I can see WHY others think I could be scum."
And then he turned that same answer into an attack towards Iron and Chip (even though I didn't ask about them specifically).
Well, this is an "questionary technique" I use pretty much daily at my work too. Again, lets see how he answered:In post 934, Mulch wrote:I think Alch is town, but I don't know how much I value his townplay . I don't think I've ever played with him as town?Notice how he states right in the beginning that he thinks Alch is town in this specific game. My question could've very well been interpreted solely as "what is your assessment of his skill-level as town IN GENERAL?"
So for whatever reason he feels the need to give me two additional comments - he doesn't know how good Alch's towngame is, and he doesn't think he has played with town!Alch.
You guys just LOVE to discredit and scumread my every post, but I do my own thing - whether it works or not.
These specific answers from mulch made me think he wrote genuinely - but he could genuinely dislike being scumread as either alignment.
He felt the need to be more specific on Alch's alignment this game (even if I didn't ask exactly for that!), but chose NOT to analyze his reads or position in this exact game (which I originally expected).
Stuff like that."If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una- UnaBombaH
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Who here STILL thinks I'm the only reasonable lynch for today?
I have three votes on me as of now, but it feels like people are not even trying to find reasonable scumreads outside of me.
Is it because I'm not straight up falling in to the generic mold of trying to force a 1v1 once I'm pressured?
Also to note: I am not going to claim today even if you put me back to L-1, because it would only help scum (as would lynching me).
I realized that if you lynch me today, our vig hits town, and scum successfully NK's, we are technically always at a LyLo (even if a Traitor hasn't been recruited, they know their teammates and would assumedly assist in a quickhammer? Haven't seen a situation like that before, but assume it would work like that.)"If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una - UnaBombaH
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