LoL eSports Discussion

[BROseidon]

Like, even when assassins a broken, teams still take adcs

[BROseidon]

Sustain damage mages are just as good on dragon/baron.

And you can make the team fight trade off require real decision making.

[BROseidon]

Honestly, I think that as long as objectives are a thing, ADCs will be mandatory. Because they're the only class capable of actively taking them from a safe distance without spending forever on it.

All of this.

Make all ADCs have all BST at 0.

Now all ADCs are unusably bad.

There exists a place where they can be balanced but not mandatory, but they require that you fundamentally change how the game is played.

[BROseidon]

Dwlee has a point. Also, if you're fundamentally changing how the game is played in order to change a class, then you may as well just make a separate game because you'll lose a massive chunk of the player base doing what you want.

Also, ADCs have been BALANCED around all of these facts for almost as long as ADCs have existed. So you're then fundamentally changing the balance of an entire class for the enjoyment of 1 person.

It's for strategic diversity and for better viewership.

Sieges are boring. Making full-on team fight comps that don't win by "lol just push and never engage" systemically stronger makes for a better viewing experience.

[BROseidon]

Yeah, that's true.

A major risk with removing the mandatory-ness of ADCs is that you just make split push stronger. Champs like Jax and Zed that are really good at taking turrets on their own become a lot more powerful.

[BROseidon]

Really they should just buff the fuck out of turrets and make AP champs deal more damage to turrets. That doesnt remove the mandatory nature of ADCs, but it maybe makes "lol 2 adcs 2 tanks" less stupid.

[BROseidon]

Dwlee has a point. Also, if you're fundamentally changing how the game is played in order to change a class, then you may as well just make a separate game because you'll lose a massive chunk of the player base doing what you want.

Also, ADCs have been BALANCED around all of these facts for almost as long as ADCs have existed. So you're then fundamentally changing the balance of an entire class for the enjoyment of 1 person.

It's for strategic diversity and for better viewership.

Sieges are boring. Making full-on team fight comps that don't win by "lol just push and never engage" systemically stronger makes for a better viewing experience.

Respond to me. How do we kill this tank meta without a source of dps?

Nerf tanks?

[BROseidon]

and Ekko still functions as a bruiser. His stun is tricky, but his slows and base damages make him work.

You could build a frozen heart on caitlyn, it wouldn't make her a tank.

Bruisers being a dominant force is totally unheard of obviously. That never happens.

Tbh bruiser meta was one of the more interesting metas

[BROseidon]

I would also like to mention that adcs have a smaller impact than tanks pre-30 minutes into the game unless fed.

Lol.

Missing the point so hard it hurts

[BROseidon]

"ADCs are OP" and "the game systemically requires ADCs" are two different things

[BROseidon]

I dunno.

Win NALCS to give fans false hope is a pretty fun storyline. I think you can argue scripted either way.

[BROseidon]

Man I bet LiftLift feels bad...

[BROseidon]

Yeah, C9 should be able to push that 5 into the LCS, sell the spot, and then actually form a real farm team.

[BROseidon]

Although if I were C9, I would be terrified of selling Hai >.>

[BROseidon]

My guess is that they would actually just remove the entire team except for Altec before selling the spot...

[BROseidon]

Yeah, I'm thinking that the original 3 on the challenger roster all take management rolls after they get into the LCS so that they can sell the spot. Meteos may get swapped down and sold with the spot, or he may stick around and do his own thing.

[BROseidon]

Lemon really should be a coach, Hai should head the C9 League of Legends division (Director of League is a pretty cool title). Balls can stick around as a streamer or something?

[BROseidon]

Elementz is back!

[BROseidon]

He made a reign of gaming post and posted to reddit about it

[BROseidon]

I'm on mobile

[BROseidon]

It's the first time it made first page of reddit recently.

[BROseidon]

Wow the bm.

He's actually a pretty smart guy with a lot of decent/interesting perspectives. I'm fine with him becoming a content creator.

He was also the only person at s1 worlds who wasn't awkward as fuck in post-game interviews

[BROseidon]

Truly counter logic

[BROseidon]

Also yeah SKT and G2 lol

[BROseidon]

Yeah eu is now a wildcard region.

Thanks g2!

[BROseidon]

holy cow. that CLG/RNG game was fun to watch. Stixxay has been awesome. Also, I have to say... It's hard to think that this is the same Xmithie as the one from last year.

He got good again.

[BROseidon]

Oh my god wtf was ren doing?

[BROseidon]

Renegades, TDK, and Team Impulse all have to sell their LCS spots.

[BROseidon]

Badawi permabanned from involvement in LoL, Monte suspended. TiP owners also suspended.

[BROseidon]

Losing games to give fans false hope

[BROseidon]

Lol g2

[BROseidon]

Also FC Schalke buying an lcs slot is great

[BROseidon]

mithy and zven moved to G2 it looks like.

Yup.

G2 will actually be really good if they practice!

[BROseidon]

So h2k loses Forg1ven to gain Freeze, OG loses Zven and Mithy to gain Forg1ven and Hybrid, and G2 lose Emperor and Hybrid to gain Zven and Mithy.

G2 definitely win this, as they're getting a pre-packaged bot lane that plays very well together. Forg1ven could potentially do super well in OG's "let the ADC carry" setup, but we'll see how he meshes with Hybrid and the team overall. h2k probably just do better with Freeze than Forg1ven.

I'd say G2 gain a lot, h2k gain a fair bit, and OG could be anywhere from catastrophically bad to pretty good.

[BROseidon]

Good point RIP OG.

[BROseidon]

I think you misunderstand. Obviously you can still do that, but because NA players will play more games they have a higher chance of going off in any given week.

Yeah this.

Best 2 is better.

[BROseidon]

Yeah you're right I mistyped

[BROseidon]

Eu lcs with the ties!

[BROseidon]

Guys are Unicorns a mid-tier team now?

[BROseidon]

Is China actually good now, or is this another instance of everything thinking China is good when they're not actually good?

[BROseidon]

Lol Splyce top 3 EU.

[BROseidon]

Lol

[BROseidon]

Tbh I'm super happy about my prediction of Hauntzer becoming a world-class player have panned out.

[BROseidon]

Also this TSM squad is probably the best hope the west has had at worlds since M5/CLG.eu

[BROseidon]

Fnatic of s3 had skt to deal with, so they were a super distant outside shot. Fnatic last year, IMO, wasn't as good as TSM is now, although the shift in formats may have something to do with that.

[BROseidon]

#getrekt

[BROseidon]

They still might go out in groups, but that's kinda par for a west team.

Yeah, G2 making it out of groups is actually pretty hard with them not being in Pool A for seeding.

[BROseidon]

lol immortals

[BROseidon]

I mean they lost 3-2 to the third seed. That's obviously a disappointment for them and not what they would have expected, but it's not like when they got 3-0d by a then-6th seed.

Certainly better than Team Liquid, after all.

Lol tl.

Also it's more how they lost. Huni got rekt.

[BROseidon]

SO, we smelling franchising, or what?

#LCSForever

I really hope not tbh.

Pro/Rel is a good system.

[BROseidon]

I'd be stunned if Splyce don't take it.

[BROseidon]

Ugh first tower worth too much.

Should be worth like 100-200 less, imo

[BROseidon]

Fnatic's bad now.

They'll bounce back, but this was just an off year for them.

[BROseidon]

Still a TL fan here.

#feelsbadman

At least I'm a secondary G2 and H2K fan, so I've got 2 teams to root for beyond "lol default root for the west"

[BROseidon]

I feel a lot better about this C9 team than last year's. Really hope they and TSM can go far.

Yeah this C9 doesn't have fucking Balls and Hai.

[BROseidon]

Haha yeah.

[BROseidon]

Certainly not the most technically gifted player, and I think any team that has him has a certain ceiling,

You answered your own question.

[BROseidon]

Like, I don't "hate" him, but post-lung he just couldn't play at the level he needed to. He's still probably the best shotcaller the west has ever had, and among the best in the world.

[BROseidon]

What you're saying is both correct and not germane to my point that Balls and Hai being replaced makes this C9 stronger.

[BROseidon]

Group B has SKT vs C9!

[BROseidon]

but historically LMS 1st seed has been a good deal better than NA 1st seed, much less NA 3rd?

This was only true in S2. The difference the past few years has been relatively small.

Also C9 is stronger right now than CLG, and you also have Impact in the form of his life right now. Group B is the one I'm having the hardest to call - any 2 of SKT/FW/C9 could advance in possibly any order, and I'm considering doing something wonky there to differentiate my bracket.

[BROseidon]

Fuck, in that group IMay is also a massive wildcard.

Like, Group D is the hardest group, but I think it's also the clearest what order the teams should be in (even if you accept there's a decent chance that those results won't happen).

[BROseidon]

Fun fact speaking of S1: I beat Xan Radeon on solo queue once when he was on his NA smurf.

[BROseidon]

You could do some of his quotes.

Like MARMESS!

[BROseidon]

So, uh.

RNG.

Looking really, really fucking good.

[BROseidon]

MARMESS!

[BROseidon]

Rock
Paper
Scissors
EU

[BROseidon]

Tbh SKT look kind of beatable.

I have no fucking clue who will win, this is so absurd.

[BROseidon]

lol

[BROseidon]

Lol.

This worlds.

[BROseidon]

This is fucking hilarious holy shit.

I'm so happy.

[BROseidon]

That is not an accurate description of "never any doubt"

Haha yeah

It's like Voided hasn't been actually watching the games. We'll see what happens week 2, but all 3 Korean teams didn't show up week 1, and 1 of them is in real danger of not advancing.

[BROseidon]

They sure did.

[BROseidon]

I think the point is that, even with just watching the C9/IMay games, your assertion that SKT will absolutely make the finals was more based in the fact that they're SKT than anything else. SKT are still definitely among the favorites to get there, but this is far, far less guaranteed than it was last year or in S3.

[BROseidon]

Like based on performances, I could reasonably see like 1/2 the times making finals, depending on how much teams show up next week.

[BROseidon]

Yeah that was good.

[BROseidon]

GUYS

[BROseidon]

GUYS

[BROseidon]

Rox's team fighting was really good when Pray wasn't randomly dying.

[BROseidon]

Like Pray getting caught over and over again just fucks Rox so hard.

[BROseidon]

To be fair.

It was like 90% Pray.

[BROseidon]

Unfortunately, we didn't get the Rox-knocked-out-the-dream

[BROseidon]

H2K feels like they're the only ones who have a chance of making it out. G2 flopped hard, Splyce is simply outclassed by the teams in their group, so EU's only hope is in them. And even then I don't think they'll get past quarters without a very lucky break; getting 1st seed and getting ANX is just about their best hope. But I think EDG has 1st on lockdown now unless H2K goes 3-0.

Well this is funny in retrospect.

[BROseidon]

This seriously is bizzaro-worlds tbh.

[BROseidon]

If EDG doesn't advance...

[BROseidon]

Well EDG is advancing.

Probs going to sleep before the tiebreak.

[BROseidon]

IKR? Even moreso if they actually won the tiebreaker.

Well this is funny in retrospect.

[BROseidon]

Seriously, though, it's amazing to see what h2k can do when they're not imploding on themselves.

Thorin was right when he said that they won the offseason. It just took them brute-forcing their way to Worlds before the team started functioning the way it's supposed to.

[BROseidon]

i mean russia is eu in soccer which i also happen to find weird as well.

Eufa also includes turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Kazakhstan...

[BROseidon]

Autocorrect gave you... Eufa?

No I just can't type.

[BROseidon]

welp

[BROseidon]

Tbh.

I'm hoping for RNG vs. h2k.

[BROseidon]

Likkrit has chicken pox :/

[BROseidon]

Super fun

[BROseidon]

Yeah h2k will be fine. Probably the quarterfinal I'd call with the most confidence.

[BROseidon]

Everyone loves an underdog

[BROseidon]

Korea's still the best, but this year's showing that the gap continues to close.

The question is when the gap will be fully, or remotely, closed. I think we're a ways off, still.

[BROseidon]

No it's because toxicity.

[BROseidon]

But while I can imagine that non-Koreans can be the first to jump on using it, are they really going to figure out the best way to use it before Koreans do? They've had at least two decades of work on this kind of thing.

Except the US has also been good at this for, like, every other fucking sport.

[BROseidon]

h2k is our last hope.

[BROseidon]

Well.

That sure was a series.

If h2k can figure out how to do things after 20 minutes, they can win worlds.

[BROseidon]

yeah, that's silly. It's like saying the MLS doesn't matter because the premier league, the bundesliga or la liga exists. Sure it matters, your team plays in it. They have their ups and downs, some elation, some drama. If nothing else, it's a template for Phreaks puns and you surely like those?

This isn't really a great comparison because a lot of what holds the MLS back is the salary cap. There are clubs that could fork over more money to buy more international talent (LA Galaxy and NYCFC are pretty loaded), but the salary cap and the wonky rules around it with designated players and funny money limit how much clubs can bring in "top players" to bolster their rosters. You could also argue that international slots, to a degree, hold back the MLS, but that would really only be a compelling argument if the salary cap weren't already such a big hamper.

The issue NA has right now is that it's paying its players more money than Korea and EU while getting worse results. For money in->results out, Korea and EU are both doing well (especially EU, which is the poorest of the big-4 regions), while NA and China are sucking. NA's problems aren't the same as the MLS's.

[BROseidon]

Well, the bigger issue is voided can't read. Cabd said the false article wrote that rox were coming for money, not coming for superior opposition. Last I checked the dollar was strong as fuck and a pile of sports teams have been investing in both na and eu. I'm sure the dollar and euro are pretty god damn strong.

Yeah I'm sure Deft is crying with how much money he's making right now.

Going back to the soccer thing, look at Michael Bradley. He'd probably be a better player if he stayed in Europe, but $6.5m Canadian/yr was too hard to pass up.

[BROseidon]

it's a retirement home for top players atm, who rake in some more money after a succesful carreer. Really don't think a salary cap is the issue, exposure and competition is.

How's the view from like 3 years ago?

Hard to call the MLS a retirement home when you have Altidore, Bradley, and Giovinco all

on the same team

, among other arguments that this is becoming less true.

[BROseidon]

See, salary cap isn't the issue. Bradley had the name (bc lets be honest, I've seen him play, not an exceptional talent), and cashed out on it.

He cashed out at 27, though. That's a pretty early retirement. The drop in competition has also definitely hurt his play - he's playing substantially worse now than he was 2-3 years ago. Klinsmann playing him out of position 1/2 the time doesn't really help, but Bradley does himself no favors (I'm personally in favor of giving his starting spot on the USMNT to Kitchen at this point, since Kitchen is defensively a lot stronger, even if he lacks some of the creativity that Bradley theoretically provides).

You're right that money buys talent, but the difference b/w NALCS and MLS is that the NALCS is the second highest paying league. MLS has a salary cap literally lower than what some players make, and very limited rules to help teams kind of get around it.

[BROseidon]

The MLS is pretty wise to have a salary cap, I think.

Forced parity is good for building a fan base. Every MLS Cup final being LA Galaxy/Seattle Sounders vs. NYCFC or Toronto FC, with Orlando or NYRB able to occasionally break through would be really boring.

Although tbf that's basically what's happening to League.

[BROseidon]

it's a retirement home for top players atm, who rake in some more money after a succesful carreer. Really don't think a salary cap is the issue, exposure and competition is.

How's the view from like 3 years ago?

Hard to call the MLS a retirement home when you have Altidore, Bradley, and Giovinco all

on the same team

, among other arguments that this is becoming less true.

I think Giovinco is the only one there that helps prove your point. Altidore and Bradley have a geographic reason to be there.

The point is that teams in the MLS are starting to have more than 1 incredibly good player, and they aren't just ancient. Toronto FC's the most stacked in this regard, but you've got Lodeiro+Morris in Seattle. You have Birnbaum+Lucho+Hamid+Mullins at DCU. You have Kljestan and Wright-Philips at NYRB. Yeah, teams that are mid-table in the EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, etc, are comprised entirely of players this good, but those are leagues that pay way, way more with clubs that have been around for way longer (NYCFC's literally been around for 2 years, and yeah they've started with "retirement home" with Villa/Pirlo, but they've got the money to be more interesting as the MLS continues to grow).

If you want to just talk about non-US players, beyond Giovinco there's Lodeiro, Valeri, Wright-Philips, LUCHO, Adi, Afful, Ciman (although he came over at 30), etc. The MLS is starting to get very good international talent that isn't just there to retire.

[BROseidon]

You mean serie a washout sebastian giovinco?

Yeah, he wasn't good at Juventus, but he was pretty fucking good while on loan. Who you play around and what system you play in can matter a lot, especially for guys like Giovinco.

[BROseidon]

Hard to call the MLS a retirement home when you have Altidore, Bradley, and Giovinco all on the same team, among other arguments that this is becoming less true.

I've seen two of these a couple of seasons as they got picked up in Europe. Not straight to the main competitions, and Altidore in fairness never made it. He was a striker of a subtop team in the eredivisie, of which you haven't heard, wasn't the star, was a decently hard worker when his trainer got his head into it.

Uh, of course I've heard of the Eredivisie. One, my sister lives in the Netherlands; two, I'm currently managing PEC Zwolle in FM; three, it's super condescending to assume that someone hasn't heard of the Eredivisie because of course I have.

39 goals in 67 appearances at AZ is... actually good? AZ also finished 4th and 10th, which, while not amazing, is still pretty good.

Tried a major league (Great Brittain) and failed.

Yeah, he wasn't quite up to snuff for Sunderland for w/e reason. That said, he's kind of pulled the opposite of Bradley, where he's looking like he's still getting better, even with the "subpar" competition of the MLS.

Bradley was a stable piece in the same competition, the eredivisie, with a team of similar standing, and made it to the big leagues after, Italy, Germany. Never on the top teams, just below that, never the star of his team either, but a hard worker and you need those as well. He had a good carreer.. and now he's in his football retirement home. He can be proud of what he achieved.

Except he hasn't retired - he's still trying. He prioritized money over being the absolute best footballer he could, but he's still out there giving his all and contributing for Toronto and for the USMNT (as much as his USMNT performances have been lackluster recently)

Your glasses have stars and stripes here Bro

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying that calling the MLS purely a retirement home for star players is a dated reference - we were definitely that several years ago, but the league is improving in terms of the quality of international talent it's attracting, when it's attracting that talent, and the quality of US players staying in the MLS (a good chunk of the USMNT still plays in the MLS, and a few of them have actually been BETTER in the MLS than in Europe for some reason). Nevertheless, there's an upper limit on how good the MLS can really get, put in place by the salary cap.

[BROseidon]

eh, if Altidore had ambition, he wouldn't be in the MLS. This should be his prime. He has tried, and it didn't work out. He's the talent that could never quite deliver.

Altidore's been playing the best he's ever played the past 6 months, though. This isn't a phenomenon unique to him, either (look at Kljestan since he's come to NYRB).

Playing against better players is better for some people (Bradley's clearly declined the past few years), but for others, it's more important to be in a team setup where they can play confidently.

[BROseidon]

I mean, to me specifically in this context.

Eredivisie isn't EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A/Ligue 1, but it's still a 2nd-tier competition.

[BROseidon]

Like, saying that "all competitions that aren't the very best ones don't matter" is pretty gross.

[BROseidon]

Also, weirdly enough, in my FM file, by 2022 (when I moved from DCU to PEC Zwolle), MLS was a more competitive/better league than the Eredivisie, despite the salary cap still being a thing in the MLS.

I think it had to do mostly with the US producing bizarrely good regens at that point.

[BROseidon]

The difference between League of Legends and Football is that one of those is the largest sport in the world where there is a much larger range of competitions, and the other is absolutely tiny.

The NALCS isn't equivalent to the Eredivisie or even MLS right now. It's equivalent to, like, the Hyundai A-League.

[BROseidon]

If even that tbh.

[BROseidon]

Actually I like TSM-as-Saprissa, so NALCS=Costa Rica

[BROseidon]

To go back to my original point, would saying "competitions that aren't the very best can be difficult to feel incentivzed to support" be less gross?

Not really, since it's grounded in a fundamental moral position that WINNING is all that matters, which is a kind of disgusting position to hold.

[BROseidon]

Also the most aesthetically pleasing soccer is Serie A, hands down.

[BROseidon]

Like, people root for teams for reasons beyond "rooting for the winning team."

I root for the US soccer team because nationalism. Not because we're the best.

I root for DCU because they're my hometown club, not because they're good (and let's be real, until the end of July we were really, really, REALLY fucking terrible).

I root for the SF Giants because they're my hometown club for baseball (was only a baseball/tennis fan growing up). I stuck through the Giants during the shit years at the end of Bond's career and was still going to games despite how shit we were.

I root for TL because I've been a TL fan since the Curse days because of who they had on their S2 roster. Also because I like Steve a lot more than Regi or Hotshot. Being a C9 fan is a bit gross to me, because by the time they came into the scene, you really should have already had a team and fuck you for jumping ship.

[BROseidon]

Some people started playing league after c9...

Most league players did, but I emotionally refuse to believe it.

[BROseidon]

Also the most aesthetically pleasing soccer is Serie A, hands down.

Are you referring to the plays or the players here? <_<

The plays.

Although Higuain plays for Juventus, and he's probably the soccer player I find hottest.

[BROseidon]

I find Higuain's thicker body type very attractive.

[BROseidon]

Actually this is because he basically looks more like a rugby player than a soccer player.

[BROseidon]

I'm rooting for ROX.

I want ROX vs. h2k finals.

[BROseidon]

I'm sad I'm not gonna get to watch today's match. h2k have the pieces where they could pull off the win (on an individual level, the players of h2k are better if Jankos/Vander are having a good day), but SSG's map play is just so good (and h2k's is very not good).

I have faith. Gotta #believe.

[BROseidon]

So who's excited for PSG vs. Shalke 04 in the EULCS at some point?

[BROseidon]

He US has a ton of Korean lovers

[BROseidon]

Holy fuck UOL's manager is hot.

[BROseidon]

https://gfycat.com/AncientInfamousAllosaurus

[BROseidon]

Something something sex joke.

[BROseidon]

Wow it's as if "run of form" is a thing that exists in sports

[BROseidon]

G2 will probably be fine. I don't think they'll pull a CLG.

Also Perkz is really, really good.

[BROseidon]

NICK ALLEN TO CLG!

[BROseidon]

I hope YG upsets WE for the memez.

It's not going to happen, but one can dream!

[BROseidon]

Also YG beating WE is good for both NA and EU so I'm hoping it will happen.

[BROseidon]

Hot take: SKT looks very beatable.

[BROseidon]

One big plus is that Hauntzer looked good.

I'm just gonna brag that I clocked Hauntzer as having this potential during his rookie season (not sure why more people weren't talking about him when he was the 2nd best top laner his rookie season on a mediocre team, 2nd only to Quas who was at the time the best western top laner since like S2 wickd/darien)

[BROseidon]

Yup, AHQ couldn't quite make it work.

SKT still went 3-0, but they are looking really shaky. Definitely a worse performance than I think everyone was expecting.

[BROseidon]

they don't regionally sort the quarterfinal teams, right? so IMT vs. TSM is still possible if they finish 2 and 1 or whatever.

This is why as non-koreans we should be rooting for RNG to take first and SSG to go up against one of the other koreans.

Well right now we're rooting for SSG to not make it out of groups.

[BROseidon]

Seriously LZ look great but SKT and SSG both look far worse than I expected.

[BROseidon]

Granted "far worse" for SKT is still really good but they're definitely beatable for non-LZ teams.

[BROseidon]

Welp FB couldn't close :/

[BROseidon]

G2 screwed the pooch against RNG, but they were looking pretty good for a while there.

If G2 can come out and take the game off SSG to start off W2, they'll get out of groups.

[BROseidon]

Also Longzhu is still terrifying it would be pretty shocking if they were to lose this.

[BROseidon]

Yeah Worlds being stupidly long gives teams a lot of time to adjust and fix things.

[BROseidon]

I wish it were shorter tbh. Like it's longer than the fucking world cup.

[BROseidon]

Oh look NA is doing week 2 some things never change.

[BROseidon]

Hopefully TSM or C9 or both don't NA week 2

[BROseidon]

RNG feel like they're in the SKT tier of "could upset LZ but LZ are still a step above."

Like LZ are the clear favorites, with SKT, RNG, and maybe TSM and/or WE being good enough where the upset would be within the realm of possibility (TSM and WE comes down to how they look week 2). Id probably rate it LZ>RNG>SKT>WE>TSM right now, but how well SKT, WE, and TSM come out w2 (in which I would expect SKT to crisp up and TSM to collapse, based on historical precedent)

[BROseidon]

Although if Fnatic week-over-week improvement continues at this rate they should win the whole thing, but that's more a function of how bad their week 1 was than them actually showing they are real contenders

[BROseidon]

I think G2 could have potentially advanced out of any other group. They looked pretty good for most of it, really.

Yeah G2 advance out if the draw any of the non-korean/non-RNG teams in the 2nd seed group, most likely.

[BROseidon]

And this is why expectation setting is important in life.

[BROseidon]

NA and collapsing week 2 is a systemic issue with NA, I think.

[BROseidon]

Dig out of NALCS

[BROseidon]

Kind of sad but of all the originals the least sad... though liquid would be close in the least sad.

As an OG CRS fan I would stop watching pro lol if TL were to not get a spot

[BROseidon]

I'm still a TL fan because old loyalties die hard

[BROseidon]

Imagine a world where CRS/TL figured it out

[BROseidon]

god Quas was so good. It sucks that mental health issues prevented him from becoming transcendent

[BROseidon]

I was on a plane what the fuck happened to LZ?

[BROseidon]

Imagine if a non-Korean team wins

[BROseidon]

TBH im pulling for RNG

[BROseidon]

The 1 dude with a perfect pickem left has misfits in the finals so...

[BROseidon]

Seriously though LZ losing and SKT not getting better week after week makes this year really feel like the year of not-Korea.

[BROseidon]

RNG is tbh my fave to win now. SKT played game 5 pretty well, but Uzi is looking at how SKT isn't destroying people early and licking his lips

[BROseidon]

TBH Huni going tear in game 5 was a massive, massive mistake

[BROseidon]

Also SKT with any other mid loses that game 5, IMO. Faker was doing a lot of really good stuff off the major plays that prevented PoE from taking over the game and prevented multiple barons from going to MSF. I don't think any other mid in the world couldn't have done that

[BROseidon]

RNG vs C9 would be hype

[BROseidon]

I think the "non-korean winning" thing was probably referencing since leagues have been standardized, splits happened, etc

On the flip side S2 was a very real season, although that worlds was a complete shitshow.

[BROseidon]

Also RNG was able to hold out so long there holy fuck.

[BROseidon]

Like yeah obviously RNG fucked the game well before that but shit.

[BROseidon]

Also that's the fifth death game Fnatic has had this Worlds.

[BROseidon]

RNG's body language is still really high. That's a god sign for them that they're laughing and upbeat after that loss (especially from a team that is known for tilting to hell)

[BROseidon]

F

[BROseidon]

RNG really do look the best right now but Faker is a very clutch player. That said, RNG are my favorite to win right now. They look really good.

[BROseidon]

Also all 4 teams look like they could win on any given day unlike in the past when it was like "lol SKT" so that's nice.

[BROseidon]

Samsung would be nice

And yeah, performance under pressure seems to be a recurring theme. Both Misfits and RNG were good enough to win, but they didn't rise to the occasion the way SKT (and especially Faker) have.

[BROseidon]

Yay not SKT winning.

[BROseidon]

I have been a Curse/TL fan for 6+ years oh my god I'm so happy rn

[BROseidon]

Memez

[BROseidon]

liftlift too good

Makes me glad to have been an og Curse fan

[BROseidon]

If TL wins worlds i may actually die from excitement

[BROseidon]

C9 is garbo. Not in terms of their play, but like in terms of their everything else

[BROseidon]

When I turned off the Vitality vs GenG game to go to a meeting it looked like GenG was in a position to clean up. What happened?

[BROseidon]

Korea 1-4 with two teams 0-2 lmao.

KT will be fine but GenG and Afreeca are both racing to be the first Korean team to not escape groups since KT failed to make it out in... 2013

[BROseidon]

If C9 beats GenG they're done lmao

[BROseidon]

Karsa has been very good for a while tbf. The fact that he's an import in china should be indicative of how good he is

[BROseidon]

I want Afreeca to go 3-3 but end up in the one scoring combo that results in that not giving them a tiebreaker

[BROseidon]

The world where AFS and GenG both go out in groups can still happen!

[BROseidon]

I mean that literally could happen but that's a bad outcome.

[BROseidon]

best outcome is GenG fourth because the age of Korea must die.

[BROseidon]

Sorry, I'm here for the blue bloods. Play-ins were fun, but it's time for all the western teams to go home. Brackets are for Korea and China. I hope Flash Wolves and Fntic are the two non-korea, non-china teams.

Suck it

[BROseidon]

I want Afreeca to go 3-3 but end up in the one scoring combo that results in that not giving them a tiebreaker

Aaaaaand this happened to Vitality :/

[BROseidon]

Korea is the WC now!

[BROseidon]

I enjoy that group A is also coming down to the wire. I feel like groups C and D are going to be less good at the end

[BROseidon]

AFS narrowly wins group with a close win over g2. A bit of a disappointing outcome, but AFS seems to have cleaned up their play a fair bit. They def look beatable still, though, and I could easily see them losing in the quarters to a strong 2nd seed (Fnatic/IG, for instance)

[BROseidon]

Being a TL fan is still hating one's self why do I do it

[BROseidon]

It has now been... ah yes, 7 seasons of heartbreak

[BROseidon]

True that's been pretty good.

It just felt like we could have done better and didn't really leave it all on the rift.

[BROseidon]

Jesus this draw was maybe the perfect draw for Fnatic.

KT meanwhile draws the strongest 2nd seed, and G2 was not a great draw for RNG tbh (although RNG are still favorites I feel like they'd have preferred EDG or maybe even IG because those are more known quantities). IG gets a likely RNG if they beat KT (although if IG and G2 both pull off upsets, IG is in the finals).

3-2-2-1-0 for major regions advancing out of groups is pretty balanced if you ignore LMS being bad, too. Honestly idk what system Riot uses for worlds seeding, but LMS needs to have their coefficient murdered after their 3rd/4th/4th performance this worlds.

[BROseidon]

Ranking performance of the 5 major regions so far:

China
Korea
EU
NA
LMS

Ranking performance relative to expectations:

EU - far exceeding
China - exceeding
NA - meeting
Korea - lol GenG
LMS - lol