Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[Lil Uzi Vert]

TSQ, I think you’re still stretching with the staged thing. I now suspect any extensive interaction with Taco is going to come off like the one he had with Mumble.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi,

I wasn't trying to say your playstyle is boring. I was just trying to say that when something comes out of left field, you don't really know how to deal with that. There are prolly worse offenders of being a square in this game than you fwiw.

[Egg]

Yeah, but I think (not as sure on this one) that its basically the same thing again - that he said he had real life shit after I mentioned him disappearing.

No, the difference is that the first one was you showing something you'd said earlier and where your head was at at that time. This one is something we are discussing now. We have the information that mumble claims real life pulled him from the thread for 30 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to still believe he chose to intentionally avoid the thread. I think that lying about RL is unethical, so I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to RL. Do you disagree?

Trying to Look like he was trying to sort people. I am completely undecided on Acid atm. Still trying to figure them out tbh.

Fair on being undecided, but was there something about his posts that didn't feel genuine? Because I say he was sorting people and you say he was trying to look like he was sorting people. That means if you are town and this is a genuine read, we are seeing the same thing but seeing it in different ways. Is there something that stands out as just giving off an appearance there rather than actually doing it?

Because when I am looking for instances where people are not SvS I look for intent and I just assume people have come to the same kind of idea that I have about it.

That's good because that's what I do too. And it's entirely possible that the intent from a hypothetical you/havo team is "oh shit lickety is going down, better get havo some town points after the lynch happens". To be fair, it could also be scum-you trying to swing things to a havo lynch (but then I'd have to ask "why not mumble" or scum-havo going after an opportunistic lynch on a town-you who genuinely believes havo is scum. All of these are possibilities, but all of them are based on associative tells so I don't want to sort through the possibilities before I have a solid answer somewhere. But you completely ruling out the scum/scum one even from MY point of view is very interesting. Bussing happens and this would be a decent time to do it if you were both scum.

Yeah, cuz I realized I prolly should have just let what boon did run its course right after it was brought up by EP(?). In the second quote I just give the reason for why I did it in the first place.

I dunno, I'm not really following you. If you were trying to get out of RVS, that implies that without your post we stay in RVS and boon is in no danger. The second quote implies that danger. I still feel like the main ideas of those two quotes don't fit.

TSQ, I think you’re still stretching with the staged thing.

I second this.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, but I think (not as sure on this one) that its basically the same thing again - that he said he had real life shit after I mentioned him disappearing.

No, the difference is that the first one was you showing something you'd said earlier and where your head was at at that time. This one is something we are discussing now. We have the information that mumble claims real life pulled him from the thread for 30 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to still believe he chose to intentionally avoid the thread. I think that lying about RL is unethical, so I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to RL. Do you disagree?

No, I don't still think that and I agree that lying about RL is unethical.

Trying to Look like he was trying to sort people. I am completely undecided on Acid atm. Still trying to figure them out tbh.

Fair on being undecided, but was there something about his posts that didn't feel genuine? Because I say he was sorting people and you say he was trying to look like he was sorting people. That means if you are town and this is a genuine read, we are seeing the same thing but seeing it in different ways. Is there something that stands out as just giving off an appearance there rather than actually doing it?

Its not necessarily that I think that Acids play didn't feel genuine. Its that I tend to be preemptive in my arguments so that they can't claim something else later. My argument on Acid is that he really wasn't saying "OK I sorted you and you are Scum/Town" That is what I would expect someone who is actively sorting people in real time. Like if you are going to deliberate a read, then that is different than getting reads in real time. IDK if you understand what I am saying, but those are my thoughts on it.

Because when I am looking for instances where people are not SvS I look for intent and I just assume people have come to the same kind of idea that I have about it.

That's good because that's what I do too. And it's entirely possible that the intent from a hypothetical you/havo team is "oh shit lickety is going down, better get havo some town points after the lynch happens". To be fair, it could also be scum-you trying to swing things to a havo lynch (but then I'd have to ask "why not mumble" or scum-havo going after an opportunistic lynch on a town-you who genuinely believes havo is scum. All of these are possibilities, but all of them are based on associative tells so I don't want to sort through the possibilities before I have a solid answer somewhere. But you completely ruling out the scum/scum one even from MY point of view is very interesting. Bussing happens and this would be a decent time to do it if you were both scum.

I am not sure what you want me to say here. I am Town and I think Havo is Scum. I don't think my read is as strong as I originally thought because I have an added perspective that not everyone can make the distinction between a wagon vote and a lynch vote.

Yeah, cuz I realized I prolly should have just let what boon did run its course right after it was brought up by EP(?). In the second quote I just give the reason for why I did it in the first place.

I dunno, I'm not really following you. If you were trying to get out of RVS, that implies that without your post we stay in RVS and boon is in no danger. The second quote implies that danger. I still feel like the main ideas of those two quotes don't fit.

My mind comes up with conclusions faster than my ability to weight out the consequences of my actions. In this specific instance, I didn't want Boon to get a huge wagon on him if he was doing a reaction test because as we have seen from what I have done with Havo, that can get you into trouble. I don't like games that have a fast start to them when it comes to wagons. I like getting out of RVS asap, but I don't like people just wagoning someone for zero reason with their reason being "pressure" because I have seen where someone hammers and then goes "oops" and then it turns out that its oops on us for not putting pressure on the hammer vote. In short, what I did with boon is make a precautionary play so that there wouldn't be a quick wagon on Boon because I don't like quick wagons because they can lead to quicklyches.

[Errantparabola]

1) Serg

does anyone have a read on serg other than "he's serg and lolserg null"

I need to reiterate that I will not

under any circumstance

accept an endgame outcome where serg is alive, and neither should anyone else.

2) Mumble

I take offense to this, because I do care. Quickety guy gets away saying its ridiculous for someone to scum read him based on his playstyle, but all of you jump on me for mine. It's annoying.

I scumread this post. However, contrary to what Shea thinks, I actually think that defeatism comes from town as often as it does from scum. I read it as null (and actually think from experience it comes from town very very often due to the emotional toll mafia takes in general). I also think Shea is wrong on all three of his Mumble points in 566. LQ is actually spot on in 570.

3) Acid

The whole "spew your alignment" shenanigans makes acid look townier, but I'm still very unsure. The way that acid is approaching this game makes me seem he's very comfortable, which is pretty towny under mild/consistent pressure that I feel like would generally get a scum reaction. Ultimately it's a weak read :<

4) Havo

I would be very okay with a Havo lynch. He's getting frustrated by pressure on him and stagnating his approach to the game around it. Scum does that a lot. Over the past few pages my reads have actually developed closely in the direction of what schadd says in 468 -- acid townier, Havo scummier, and less confident about scumble. In the end I'm actually still okay with a mumble lynch, despite disagreeing a lot of the reasons people are bringing up for scumble, and my Havo read isn't actually strong enough to counter the inertia of my vote just yet.

5) LQ

I'm also feeling less confident about LQ town (but actually still pretty confident) but I'm also wondering if that's just my mind reacting to his posts just being unbearable to read. Not gonna lie, my eyes glaze over when I start reading them. As LQ put it, I'm one of those people that "don't even bother to try to" understand him. Sorry about that :X :X :X

6) Egg

I think we need to look at Egg a lot more critically. I'm not saying I scumread him but I think he's providing a lot less content than it looks like at face value. I think my impression of him overlaps a lot with where scum (or at least decent scum) often tend to be D1. Relatively proactive. Asks a lot of questions. Analytical. But

importantly

, a lack of paranoia, a lack of reads progression or gamesolving that reads as genuine, or anything about him that seems unassailably town.
If the game state remains relatively the same over the course of the game, Scum!Egg easily pulls off a win. Again, I want to reiterate that Egg isn't actually scum in my eyes, I'm just announcing my intention to read him a lot more carefully and asking other people who are writing off Egg simply being a good little townie to look more carefully as well.

7) Mod

I personally would prefer if mod didn't triplepost to get a pagetop VC. I personally don't think VCs being at the top of the page matter that much, ISO exists for a reason.

[Errantparabola]

Now that I've paid my dues as a player in this game with content I think I deserve at least one real shitpost so here is the most important readslist of the game: the dragons readslist.

TOWN
1.2 VC (Dragon on a mountain): Town for sure. They stand tall and are confident. Great town leader everyone should be sheeping.
1.3 VC (Chillmaw): Not enough content to be sure but because of my Hearthstone bias I'll say town.
Opening Post (Dragon Group): They look menacing but I think they're just bad at towntelling. Null-town.
1.5 VC (Crystal Dragon): Well their posts are very transparent so I'll say town.
1.6 VC (Mega Charizard X): While this pokemon may be at the top of the OU tier lists, it's nowhere near the top of this one. null-scum
1.7 VC (Circle Dragon): Lot of circular reasoning and honestly most of the posts are incomprehensible to me, scum
1.4 VC (Magma Dragon): I'll say scum but I won't reveal why mwahaha
1.1 VC (Ice Dragon): That dragon has done nothing to advance the game and you know it. Scum.
SCUM

[Sergtacos]

Now that I've paid my dues as a player in this game with content I think I deserve at least one real shitpost so here is the most important readslist of the game: the dragons readslist.

TOWN
1.2 VC (Dragon on a mountain): Town for sure. They stand tall and are confident. Great town leader everyone should be sheeping.
1.3 VC (Chillmaw): Not enough content to be sure but because of my Hearthstone bias I'll say town.
Opening Post (Dragon Group): They look menacing but I think they're just bad at towntelling. Null-town.
1.5 VC (Crystal Dragon): Well their posts are very transparent so I'll say town.
1.6 VC (Mega Charizard X): While this pokemon may be at the top of the OU tier lists, it's nowhere near the top of this one. null-scum
1.7 VC (Circle Dragon): Lot of circular reasoning and honestly most of the posts are incomprehensible to me, scum
1.4 VC (Magma Dragon): I'll say scum but I won't reveal why mwahaha
1.1 VC (Ice Dragon): That dragon has done nothing to advance the game and you know it. Scum.
SCUM

VOTE: ICE DRAGON

I'm convinced.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

[Sergtacos]

I promise I will read this whole game by the end of the weekend and give some actual reads and arguments. Sorry mates, midterms on my ass.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I hear you. College is a bitch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Don’t go to college Carca!

[Tchill13]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

[LicketyQuickety]

I promise I will read this whole game by the end of the weekend and give some actual reads and arguments. Sorry mates, midterms on my ass.

I will hold you to that.

[LicketyQuickety]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

How? Like I am not a mind reader. I don't know why you think I reacted poorly to pressure.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I am just not going to post tomorrow because I am posting way too much.

[Tchill13]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

How? Like I am not a mind reader. I don't know why you think I reacted poorly to pressure.

Havo mentioned a wagon on you and your blew up. You then fire back and havo scum reads you even more for omgus which makes sense to me. I need EP to explain exactly how havo reacted "badly".

[Sergtacos]

I promise I will read this whole game by the end of the weekend and give some actual reads and arguments. Sorry mates, midterms on my ass.

I will hold you to that.

*holds and cuddle*

[LicketyQuickety]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

How? Like I am not a mind reader. I don't know why you think I reacted poorly to pressure.

Havo mentioned a wagon on you and your blew up. You then fire back and havo scum reads you even more for omgus which makes sense to me. I need EP to explain exactly how havo reacted "badly".

Yeah, that explains it. You are already assuming I am Scum in this scenario because otherwise you wouldn't be looking at it like an OMGUS. I am NOT OMGUSing Havo and even if I was OMGUS isn't a Scum tell.

[Tchill13]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

OK this is a question towards EP and will respond to EP's statement.

[Thestatusquo]

EP, read your first line of your post on havo. How is that different from my thoughts on mumble?

[LicketyQuickety]

Just clarifying here that I wont be posting tomorrow in this thread.

[Lalendra]

"I'm posting too much so let me double-post about how I'm not going to post" lol

[Havo]

4) Havo

I would be very okay with a Havo lynch. He's getting frustrated by pressure on him and stagnating his approach to the game around it. Scum does that a lot. Over the past few pages my reads have actually developed closely in the direction of what schadd says in 468 -- acid townier, Havo scummier, and less confident about scumble. In the end I'm actually still okay with a mumble lynch, despite disagreeing a lot of the reasons people are bringing up for scumble, and my Havo read isn't actually strong enough to counter the inertia of my vote just yet.
.

How have I demonstrated frustration by pressure on me exactly? This makes no sense. I defended myself from LQs bogus attack on me. It was LQ who came apart at the seams from me merely suggesting I’d like to see a wagon on him. He exploded and threw a desperate attempt to paint me as scum just to try and get the pressure off of himself. How can you not see that? That raises a huge Red Flag for me on you. I wanted your opinion because you were my top TR but the fact that you’re clearly ignoring LQs reaction here has ruined that.

If LQs accusations towards me actually make sense to you or anyone else then maybe they can explain them. Because I still don’t get where any of it makes any sense at all.

Reaction to pressure is a basic fundamental part of game solving. And yes townies can react poorly at times to it. But when someone completely blows up or completely shuts down due to it that’s a giant red flag. And the fact that anyone is ignoring his huge over reaction is bad.

[Havo]

"I'm posting too much so let me double-post about how I'm not going to post" lol

I got $5 that says he posts today. Lol.

[Havo]

EP, read your first line of your post on havo. How is that different from my thoughts on mumble?

Mumbles completely shut down as a reaction to pressure. That’s bad.