Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: grapes

They leave a sour taste in my mouth.

[Luca Blight]

Grapes you seem easily pleased, if you don't mind me saying.

Anything you're not liking to far?

And the game is Suikoden II - nostalgia from my childhood.

[Luca Blight]

Chip Butty, any reason you use ten posts for what you could say in one?

Feels like you want to be 'seen' as being super active. Also makes the game a bit messy to read imo

Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.

But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.

You made a list of people you consider town/null/scum. This list included people who've posted three words and people that aren't in the game. You posted things that look like they're useful to town, but aren't.

I also really don't like the way how you vote everybody who attacks you.

VOTE: grapes

On the other hand, I'm not completely convinced that grapes is scum; I have this nagging feeling scum is sitting amongst the lurkers and laughing at how we're attacking ourselves.

Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.

You vote Grapes for posting stuff that 'looks useful to Town but isn't', but how useful is a vote against someone followed by a disclaimer that you're not convinced they're scum?

I think it goes without saying you 'won't be convinced' at this early stage, but surely putting that in directly after your vote takes remove the pressurizing effect it may have had on the player, which is surely half the point of any vote at this stage of the game?

Also, what is the reason behind your Alchemist Townread?

[Luca Blight]

It's not a question of 'lying about reads', it's a question of the purpose of the vote.

You just voted Grapes for trying to look useful when not actually being useful, but I'm questioning what the use of your vote is when you undermine it with your very next sentence?

And why did you ignore my question about your Alchemist Townread?

[Luca Blight]

I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.

First of all, his start:

If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.

I don't like this.

VOTE: Alchemist21

Votes Alch with a seemingly non RVS vote, but then doesn't follow up on it at all. Alch soon becomes IceGuy's biggest townread for being "right and earnest about grapes' behavior", which seems a bit weak for a solid early Townread, considering Alch had posted the only other thing IceGuy has disliked in this game so far.

His vote:

Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.

But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.

You made a list of people you consider town/null/scum. This list included people who've posted three words and people that aren't in the game. You posted things that look like they're useful to town, but aren't.

I also really don't like the way how you vote everybody who attacks you.

VOTE: grapes

On the other hand, I'm not completely convinced that grapes is scum; I have this nagging feeling scum is sitting amongst the lurkers and laughing at how we're attacking ourselves.

Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.

As I mentioned before, a bit hypocritical that he votes someone for trying to look useful without being so, and then making a pretty pointless vote of his own when it's followed by "I'm not completely convinced he's scum" - what is the point of such a non-committal vote? He wants to be seen as doing something, but he has zero conviction behind it, which leads to his unvote:

UNVOTE:

Scum would be laying low right now, not doing what grapes is doing. While I don't agree with what grapes is saying and I consider a player who thinks they can solve the game on page 2 a show-off, it does not indicate alignment.

So basically IceGuy has coasted the opening of this game entirely on Grapes' back, accusing him of trying to look useful but not being so, when this is exactly what IceGuy has been doing himself.

Also, this post:

You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now.

Seems pretty ridiculous reasoning to me; feels like he's trying to provoke a scum read that wasn't there.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: IceGuy

[Luca Blight]

Luca Blight

I noticed that you attacked IceGuy for grapes but never talked about grapes. What's your position on grapes?

Grapes is leaning Town for me.

The only problem I had with him so far was his 'easy' reads, but I'm willing to accept his explanation for now that it's a playstyle of his. I've played with other players who have played similarly (basing reads off of very little content) who have turned out to be Town, so it's not something in of itself that I'm going to call particularly scummy.

[Luca Blight]

@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?

@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grapes's account of his style without asking him what I have just asked him?

Because a) I've seen it as a playstyle for others, so I'm aware this is how some people play and b) His explanation seemed genuine enough in post 41 and in reply to IceGuy in 116, and I like other things such as his consistent activity, as well as his interaction with Realeo in posts 57 and 116 and c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.

I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.

So basically, you've decided that you want to start a wagon on me, and then tried to find reasons for it.

Uh, no. I've seen you coasting on the back of Grapes the whole game so far and have done little else.

Are you really just going to dismiss my entire post like that?

Now you have unvoted Grapes, who is your biggest scum read?

I don't see the case Luca's making about Ice. I see it as Town who's not looking to confbias and tunnel, and him stating what's making him less confident in the read seems like it's a more honest vote than one that's pushing an agenda.

Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?

[Luca Blight]

Realeo what are you current reads?

I'm starting to worry that I am townreading people too quickly and not having enough scumread.

I am comfy with Alchemist and grapes.

I am not comfy with ChipButty, IceGuy, and Luca, but it's not exactly "I'm not comfortable with you so you're my scumread" but more to "I'm not comfortable with you so you are under my radar."

Why are you 'comfy' with Alch, and why aren't you 'comfy' with ChipButty and I?

And is that to say that you townread Grapes and Alch?

Spoiler: Catch Up

I really like 17 from Assemble. Assemble is bad scum and bad scum are typically afraid to do self meta, so I think this points to them in the town direction. Also not sure how enthusiastic and into the game they would be early as scum (see fferlyt's newbie game with me).

I dislike Riddleton (who it turns out would be Duckworth)'s 36 because I feel like this is something that is a relatively safe and shallow thing to notice; if you go in depth you can sorta follow all of Grape's townreads and how they get to it so while unsubstatiated townreads are usually a problem it dosen't really apply to Grapes here. Which means that Duck could be saying it just to say it.

I think it's weird that I"m somehow already some sort of scumlean in Grape's readlist in 38?

@grapes?

Besides the readlist not a bad post

It's a tiny bit weird that Realeo retracted a town lean just because nobody else agreed with him in 48, but I don't know if it's allignment indicative? Maybe a little scummy because I don't see why he would do that *shrug*

@Realeo

Really disagree with Alch's 51, it was a "valid" OMGUS and defensiveness isn't a scumtell. Unfortuantely can't scumread Alch for it because too many people nowadays have misguided perceptions about this stuff.

Dislike 72 from Icy- Same reason as Riddelton. And I don't get his Alch or Realeo townreads at all, so unless I get a pretty good mindset explanation I think those are decently scummy as well.

@Ice

And again 75 from Chip just completely goes against my current reads right now. Dunno. I've been burned with scumreading over disagreements in the past but how can you think Realeo and Ice is towny?

What do y'all mean in 92, what human error? I'm not following but then again I'm not particularly smart

At 96 I'm probably confident enough at this point to

VOTE: Iceguy

It's not that this is an invalid point that he's pushing, it's that he's pushing a point valid in theory that's not really applicable in practice.

Feels like you want to be 'seen' as being super active. Also makes the game a bit messy to read imo

This portion of Luca's post is really reachy to me.

At least now we can get a little into Iceguy's townread mindset:

Alchemist is town because he seems to be right and earnest about grapes' behavior.

I mean...he's been asking...questions. Not really particualrly towny questions (ones that I marked down as towny to me). I think this could be an example of scum that's trying to force reads and pocket. Not sure.

111 is really bad, I think the logic about Grape being more active here is a stretch and I can't really try and figure how they would think this would be good and solid reasoning to use, and I also dislike their presumption of grape town throughout their posts. Perhaps scum that spewed Grapes town?

And yet again I dislike Ice's post in 122, it's just another easily fakeable post and a very good excuse to unvote after Grape's had been looking more and more town.

Mindmelding with most of Alch's 125, Grape's end was really good especially where they noticied the perspective of Grape's town. While scum might not mind the townread.

In post 98, IceGuy wrote:
You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now.


Seems pretty ridiculous reasoning to me; feels like he's trying to provoke a scum read that wasn't there.

What does this mean? "Provoke a scum read"

@Lucas

And that's about it I think.

I guess a really rough readslist (it's so early, although it is an open game) would be:

Mulch/Assemble/Grapes
Alch
Comm/ (maybe Chip?)
Iron/Duck/Una
Realeo/Luca
Game
Ice

Regarding the 'provoke a scumread' - I'm trying to understand the thought-process behind IceGuy's comment in 98.

This isn't necessarily scummy in itself as 'provoking' reads is something done by Town as well, but it's the reasoning behind it that caught me as a bit strange.

[Luca Blight]

Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?

Not really. He saw an issue with grapes (and wasn't the only one) and acted on it. He's showing thoughts in a clear, concise manner that's making it possible for others to get a read on him, which is useful.

So does this mean you are townreading IceGuy?

And since you unvoted Grapes, do you have any scumreads?

[Luca Blight]

Realeo, can I get an answer to my questions in post 165?

[Luca Blight]

Anyone have any thoughts on IceGuy's reaction to my vote:

I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.

So basically, you've decided that you want to start a wagon on me, and then tried to find reasons for it.

He quotes a tiny segment of my post and replies with a generic statement that could used in reply to any vote ever, before melting away into the background again.

[Luca Blight]

@Mod

- IceGuy voted Una, not Alch.

[Luca Blight]

And Alch also voted Una.

[Luca Blight]

Are you really just going to dismiss my entire post like that?

Yes, because you're saying that I'm scum based on things like that I'm unsure with my reads (on page 3 of all places), or that my reads change.

Either you're deliberately misrepping me or you're not reading properly. My vote on you, primarily, was for doing yourself what you scumread Grapes for (looking useful without being so) and that was compounded by your pointless vote and unvote which achieved literally nothing. Hopefully I won't have to repeat myself again on this.

Now you have unvoted Grapes, who is your biggest scum read?

The whole peanut gallery of lurkers. ironstove, Assemblerotws, Duckworth/Riddleton. I'm not going to rank them because they're equally useless. UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing. Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.

I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.

VOTE: Realio

Overtheorising.

This is a bad vote and the justification in #174 is even worse.

And yet ChipButty isn't someone you're considering for the lynch (based on your quote above)? You have genuine reasons to vote ChipButty so why just pick on the lurkers instead?

I'm waiting for his vote to see if he actually meant it. Given how he read my post, I can no longer predict the sentiment of his text.

I'm not voting Luca. I don't consider him particularly scummy.

You said earlier that I had decided to start a wagon on you and was trying to find reasons - that implies a scum read to me, or do you think Town would have similar motivation?

[Luca Blight]

Day 1 has officially begun! The that this day will end is September 31, 2017, at 10:00 A.M. Central Time.

@Mod

- just to point out, September 31 doesn't exist.

You ruined the illusion!

[Luca Blight]

I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.

Do you always get your #1 scumread lynched? Don't you see the point in compromising?

If I have a clear scumread then I will pursue that lynch until it's not longer reasonably possible, and only then look at compromising. What you're doing is just lining up a few easy targets to wagon at will and, as I said, it seems opportunistic to me.

A bad justification is not necessarily a scummy justification. Also, why are you so intent on defending the lurkers who have literally contributed nothing to the game?

You said earlier that I had decided to start a wagon on you and was trying to find reasons - that implies a scum read to me, or do you think Town would have similar motivation?

As above: Town does bad things.

I'm in no way defending the lurkers - I am questioning the motivation behind your current stance, that a lynch of any lurker will do. It's such an easy path of no resistance to go down, and it doesn't sit right with me. There would be no issue if you had at least attempted to interact with the lurkers and draw reads out of them, but to just brand them all 'useless' and say any of them can be lynched is at best anti-town, and at worst a very scummy thing to do.

[Luca Blight]

And anyone else surprise by IceGuy's ChipButty Townread?

I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.

[Luca Blight]

You're doing nothing the same as I, IceGuy, and don't even try to pretend you are.

You could actually try to interact with them before writing them all off - have you tried?

[Luca Blight]

I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.

Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".

Also, you do not seem to get the distinction between "X does things I disagree with" and "X is scum". Should I explain it again, perhaps more slowly?

Misrep? you're really stretching the term there. I'm aware the first name had the same value as the third, I was just stating it as a literal fact.

I get the distinction, but it still surprises me how someone who has done nothing (that you have noted) positive and only negative things in your eyes is a TownRead of yours.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

You're doing nothing the same as I, IceGuy, and don't even try to pretend you are.

You said yourself you're willing to compromise when the deadline looms. I'm also willing to compromise, but I post about it. So, I'm doing the same, I'm just posting about it.

You could actually try to interact with them before writing them all off - have you tried?

So, I could write "Assemble: Say something". What next? Do you think a lurker will not stop lurking when faced with a lynch, but stop lurking when faced with a question?

Apparently IceGuy's last game was two years ago.

@IceGuy

Do you play in other mafia sites interim?

No.

I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.

Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".

Also, you do not seem to get the distinction between "X does things I disagree with" and "X is scum". Should I explain it again, perhaps more slowly?

Misrep? you're really stretching the term there. I'm aware the first name had the same value as the third, I was just stating it as a literal fact.

If you were stating it just as a literal fact, why didn't you leave it off? The fact is readily apparent in my post, so there's no need to repeat it - unless you're trying to draw attention to it, which you deny.

1) There's a difference in motivation behind someone who accepts compromise as a last resort and someone who is lining up the wagons of several different town members with 5 days until deadline.

2) There have been 'lurkers' who have popped in and out of the thread that you could have challenged if you genuinely wanted to get a read off of them. I think the key word here is 'try' - if you did this and had no success then I'd be a bit more sympathetic to your view on the lurkers.

3) Seriously, I'm not going to justify saying ChipButty was first on your Townie list when he was first on your Townie list. If you want to get sensitive over that then that's your prerogative but it feels a bit like you're deflecting away from the other issues.

[Luca Blight]

And while you're at it, IceGuy, would you care to explain that Townread of ChipButty?

[Luca Blight]

1) There's a difference in motivation behind someone who accepts compromise as a last resort and someone who is lining up the wagons of several different town members with 5 days until deadline.

If you have a #1 scumread and a #2 scumread who is close in scummyness, and there is a wagon on #2 but not on #1, what would you do?

That's irrelevant as it neither applies to you nor me so far.

You've stated you're willing to compromise on lynching players who currently have zero votes.

Don't squirrel away. Why did you specifically mention it in your post?

And while you're at it, IceGuy, would you care to explain that Townread of ChipButty?

Honest, constructive posts mostly. Not particularly long, but straight to the point and devoid of fluff.

Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.

And you're reasoning for townreading ChipButty seems very generic. I would appreciate some examples of the 'constructive' posts, and can you define 'fluff' in this case?

[Luca Blight]

@ChipButty

- These are the only times IceGuy mentioned you before he posted his reads list.

Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.

VOTE: Realio

Overtheorising.

This is a bad vote and the justification in #174 is even worse.

3. Cruising. Yes I've been cruising, because this game has been developing very slowly and boringly and i have two others i am way more engaged with.

I have a question. Why do you consider this game boring?

As you can see, there is nothing there to indicate a Town read, and the middle quote is clearly negative.

[Luca Blight]

Btw what happened to Grapes?

Hasn't posted for three days.

[Luca Blight]

I plan to also do a comprehensive reads list at some point today.

I think the more who do this the better so we can get an idea of where we're at, given we're now approaching the deadline.

[Luca Blight]

@ChipButty

- These are the only times IceGuy mentioned you before he posted his reads list.

Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.

VOTE: Realio

Overtheorising.

This is a bad vote and the justification in #174 is even worse.

3. Cruising. Yes I've been cruising, because this game has been developing very slowly and boringly and i have two others i am way more engaged with.

I have a question. Why do you consider this game boring?

As you can see, there is nothing there to indicate a Town read, and the middle quote is clearly negative.

As he explained later, he was saying badtown, not scummy.

The post of mine you quoted (304) was made before his explanation.

Not that I'm too trusting of that explanation at this point - if he thought it was 'bad town' he should have said so in 247 - not doing so implied a scum read, if anything.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca: I'm not too trusting of that explanation either, but your reason for doubting it seens thin / reachy.

How so?

[Luca Blight]

@Luca: I'm not too trusting of that explanation either, but your reason for doubting it seens thin / reachy.

How so?

For example, he might have thought that by calling my vote bad rather than scummy, he thought he would be understood as saying badtown. If he has a history of using 'bad' and 'scummy' interchangeably, then this explanation doesn't work though.

The way I see it, why bother commenting on it if he's not reading it as scummy? If he's reading it as bad Town then fair enough, but make that clear. I think any reasonable player reading that would assume he's marking it as scummy based on wording.

It just seems to me like he's thrown that in there for the sake of content, and then backtracked a bit that 'bad' actually meant 'bad town' when called out on it.

It doesn't feel genuine to me, but if you think that's 'reachy' then that's your call.

[Luca Blight]

Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.

As I said, you're squirreling away. This is not town behavior. In Mafia, you don't just state a fact.

Luca Blight

- Changed my read because of his refusal to answer a simple question. In #304, he says Chip is "first name on [my] Townie list". In #308, I tell him that the order in the list has no significance, in #312 he says he was aware of it. Yet, he repeatedly claims that he "just posted a fact" and refuses to say why he posted it (#317, #337).

Leaning scum, will probably vote if wagon forms

I must say, I find this hilarious. I knew you'd be itching to find a way to change your read about me at some point as a defensive measure, but who knew your reasoning would be so laughable?

You've changed me from a Town-lean to a Scum-lean for one sole reason; because I said ChipButty was 'first one your townie list', and guess what?

Read list:

Town:

Chip Butty

/Alchemist/Realeo
Leaning town: Luca/CK/grapes
Neutral: Mulch/GNB
Leaning scum: ironstove/Duckworth
Scum: Assemble/UnaBombaH

He was first name on his Townie list. Now, if he was actually second or third name on his townie list and I was claiming he was first then fair enough I guess, but he literally is first name on the Townie list. As I later said, that doesn't mean his value is necessarily different on said list to Alch or Realeo, but nonetheless my statement holds true - you were the one trying to give it a deeper meaning that wasn't there.

He also says it's not Townie to not explain it - why would I explain such a non-issue to someone I strongly believe is scum trying to deflect away from my case against him? And guess what, now he is scumreading me for this trivial issue, so even though I didn't entertain his wish for an explanation, he managed to deflect anyway.

He earlier accused me of 'trying to find reasons to wagon him', but clearly he's now trying to find reasons to a) scumread me back and b) line up a wagon on me.

I still plan to make a comprehensive reads list when I have time, but I'll be hard-pressed to budge off my current vote as things stand.

[Luca Blight]

Realeo, what are your thoughts on IceGuy's read-change of me that I highlighted above?

Do you believe it's a genuine/credible reason to justify a change from town-lean to scum-lean?

[Luca Blight]

Realeo, what are your thoughts on IceGuy's read-change of me that I highlighted above?

Do you believe it's a genuine/credible reason to justify a change from town-lean to scum-lean?

I have seen it done by both alignment, frankly.

I just wish that you choose other IceGuy's read beside ChipButty. At this point, it maybe done no justice. Personally, I'm interested at his DuckWorth's read but waiting for you to end the assault before I quiz him.

You've seen what done by both alignments?

My point regarding his ChipButty read is just one of many reasons for me suspecting IceGuy, but he subsequently looked scummier with his deflecting onto the trivial issue of what order ChipButty was in his Townie list, which was never of significance for me.

It's like he wanted to scum read me back and that's the only thing he could find, so he ran with it.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca

, I'm not really getting your push here. It seems like your original issue was that Ice moved Chip into his Townreads when he hadn't said anything positive about him, but since then you keep pointing out that Chip was listed first. Ice has stated the order wasn't indicative of the strength of those reads, and I'm not getting why you keep pressing the issue of the order of his Townreads over the fact that Chip is even a Townread to him at all.

As I said in post 312 I recognise that his ChipButty read is not necessarily different from his other 'top-tier' reads - the whole thing is a non-issue and the only one focusing on it, if you care to read back, is IceGuy.

You're right that my original issue was that ChipButty was there in the first place, but the fact IceGuy is trying to deflect onto the irrelevant issue of me saying CB was first on the list, which as I said countless times was just a factual remark, and has used that trivial issue as a reason to change his scumread on me from town-lean to scum-lean (which is the most reachy thing I have seen in this thread) gives me even more reason to suspect him.

[Luca Blight]

Also Alch, can I get a reads list from you?

I want to see where your head's at in this game.

[Luca Blight]

It still feels like you're the one keeping the order an issue though.

As you can see from the quotes below, Iceguy is the one who is continuing the issue and won't let it go, whereas I am the one trying to move on from it.

I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.

Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".

I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.

Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".

Also, you do not seem to get the distinction between "X does things I disagree with" and "X is scum". Should I explain it again, perhaps more slowly?

Misrep? you're really stretching the term there. I'm aware the first name had the same value as the third, I was just stating it as a literal fact.

If you were stating it just as a literal fact, why didn't you leave it off? The fact is readily apparent in my post, so there's no need to repeat it - unless you're trying to draw attention to it, which you deny.

3) Seriously, I'm not going to justify saying ChipButty was first on your Townie list when he was first on your Townie list. If you want to get sensitive over that then that's your prerogative but it feels a bit like you're deflecting away from the other issues.

Don't squirrel away. Why did you specifically mention it in your post?

Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.

As I said, you're squirreling away. This is not town behavior. In Mafia, you don't just state a fact.

Luca Blight

- Changed my read because of his refusal to answer a simple question. In #304, he says Chip is "first name on [my] Townie list". In #308, I tell him that the order in the list has no significance, in #312 he says he was aware of it. Yet, he repeatedly claims that he "just posted a fact" and refuses to say why he posted it (#317, #337).

Leaning scum, will probably vote if wagon forms

@ Alch

- basically you have IceGuy as a Town-lean, yet he has been the one focusing on the ordering, which is the thing you have me as a scum-lean for.

[Luca Blight]

Realeo, can you also give a reads list when you're ready.

As I said, the more of us who do this the better. I'll do mine later when I have a bit more time.

[Luca Blight]

@Mod

- Can we get a VC, and can you also edit it into the opening post so it's easy to follow. A countdown timer for the deadline would be useful too.

[Luca Blight]

I was planning to make a reads list but I'm now thinking there's little point - due to the amount of 'lurkers' in this game most of us seem to be on the same page, barring one or two.

The way I see it is something like this:

Not lynching today:

Realeo
Chip Butty
GameNBurger
Mulch
Alchemist21
grapes
CommKnight

Possible lynches:

Assemblerotws
ironstove
IceGuy
Duckworth
UnaBombaH

Now that's not to say I think the top list is Townie and bottom scummy, but just what seems viable and not viable between now and deadline.

If I had to order it in terms of preference I'd probably go for something like:

Lynch

IceGuy
Duckworth
Assemble
Iron
Una

Don't lynch

[Luca Blight]

Possible lynches:

Assemblerotws
ironstove
IceGuy
Duckworth
UnaBombaH

The whole peanut gallery of lurkers. ironstove, Assemblerotws, Duckworth/Riddleton. I'm not going to rank them because they're equally useless. UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing. Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.

I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.

Presented without comment.

....

Now that's not to say I think the top list is Townie and bottom scummy, but just what seems viable and not viable between now and deadline.

[Luca Blight]

133 has weak reasoning, perhaps in a scummy way

Weak reasoning for a case on page 6?

We'll have to disagree on that.

c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.

@Luca

: I think I'm probably missing context for this, but why is this a reason to townread him and what exactly did he do regarding self meta?

Yes, you are missing the context. That was in reply to this question:

@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?

@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grapes's account of his style without asking him what I have just asked him?

but it's the reasoning behind it that caught me as a bit strange.

What reasoning? It was a fact...

How is

"You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now"

a fact?

It's an incorrect interpretation
.

I will give Luca a scum lean. I don't like some of his earlier posts

What don't you like, apart from 133?

[Luca Blight]

]

c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.

@Luca

: I think I'm probably missing context for this, but why is this a reason to townread him and what exactly did he do regarding self meta?

Yes, you are missing the context. That was in reply to this question:

@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?

@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grape

I can't understand... can you explain it better?

You were asking why I was Townreading Grapes because of point C in post 164, but I wasn't townreading him for that - that was in reply to CB's question in 137 as to why I accepted Grapes' explanation of his playstyle.

How is "You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now" a fact?

It's an incorrect interpretation

He isn't putting his opinion on anything, he's just reiterating what retracting a town lean is

But that isn't what retracting a Town lean is, as Realeo demonstrated - he didn't scumread CK after he 'retracted' his Town read - he returned to being ''null' as Realeo said in 101.

[Luca Blight]

And Mulch, are you still scumreading IceGuy?

[Luca Blight]

133, first part of 164, 368

From skim on ISO. Must be gone for night though, now

What's wrong with 368?

[Luca Blight]

Any reason you prefer an Assemble lynch to any of the other lurkers, Realeo?

[Luca Blight]

I personally think any meta has to be taken with a pinch of salt - it's the first thing scum will take into account.

Any reason you prefer an Assemble lynch to any of the other lurkers, Realeo?

You want to lynch ironstove?

I want to lynch IceGuy, but I'm beginning to think it's not going to happen today.

As for Ironstove, I really dislike the way he has played, regardless of alignment. But I'm just wondering how you can particularly separate him, or Assemble, from the other lurkers?

It feels like just taking a stab in the dark, which obviously suits scum more as they're not the ones in the dark.

[Luca Blight]

I don't really understand what you're getting at.

Are you calling us 'inconsistent' for not taking meta into account, or are we being inconsistent because we're not in-keeping with our own meta?

[Luca Blight]

I'm not sure why you're including me in that '5', Realeo.

I didn't 'clear you' because of your meta, just the same as I haven't judged anyone else, positively or negatively, from their meta.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I would give you a pass then.

Would you still participate in the thought experiment, please? Think this as a way to persuade me to vote IceGuy.

So you're asking me who is IceGuy's scum partner?

That's a question for another day. There are too many 'unreadables' in this game at the moment to make a serious attempt at naming a scumteam.

[Luca Blight]

But what i am thinking is maybe it is a consciously designed meta so when you are scum you can post walls and people go oh that's just Realeo Realeoing...

This is why I always take meta with a pinch of salt.

If Realeo posts tons of walls every time he is Town, is he really going to get by posting the occasional one-liner as scum?

If someone like Una usually posts a lot of fluff and jokes as Town, are they suddenly gonna get super serious as scum?

Not only would it stick out like a sore thumb, but they are also going to be more used to their 'natural' style, regardless of alignment.

[Luca Blight]

I have pwned someone purely on meta, to be fair. His meta is that if he is scum, he posts Xp more often.

Have you heard the saying '

a broken clock is right twice a day

'.

[Luca Blight]

I think if Assemble really intended to catch-up during this day phase he would have done so, at least in part, during one of his previous forays into this thread, so I'm not holding out too much hope on that.

[Luca Blight]

Una is L-2, not L-1.

[Luca Blight]

Duckworth needs prodding - hasn't posted in nearly three days.

[Luca Blight]

Aside from Realeo the wagon on Ice Guy is filled with non-townie players. So I'm going to stick to my guns and stay on Una. Obviously they're trying to divert away from Una.

Brilliant reasoning.

[Luca Blight]

I know right? It's almost like I'm not willing to wagon onto someone that most of my neutral/scumleans are voting. It's like damn man. I better back up and reconsider how I read everyone else voting an easy target.

Ice Guy is an easy lynch, almost too damn easy. There's been resistance against Una though and I suspect we'd get more from lynching Una than Ice.

Not sure how IceGuy is any 'easier' a target than Una to be honest?

There's also been resistance to an IceGuy lynch - I've been pushing it most of the day and have had little support until recently.

[Luca Blight]

Speaking of this.

Mulch, what do you rate the chances of Una-Ice being TvT?

I think the rate is quite high, if your definition of TvT is either {Town v Town} or {Town v Traitor} Given the lack of resistance of the fos between these two people, if I have to assume at least one of them is anti-town, I think it's more likely to be traitor than mafia (or I would be expecting more people defending Una or IceGuy than just me) so my compromise vote is basically me asking my self "Which one is more likely to be a traitor?"

Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'? Obviously scum are less likely to directly defend their partner, which could link them together upon the flip.

And, as has been mentioned, mafia also had the option of recruiting the Traitor, so the scenario you mentioned seems unlikely.

[Luca Blight]

Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'?

When most of the people are lynching one because "one is scummier than other" instead of "I lynch him because I townread the other," not really.

You would have to be naive to assume Scum will always townread their teammates.

[Luca Blight]

I just think, if there was a serious risk of their teammate being lynched (which is currently the case with both Una and IceGuy) why would they put themselves at risk by directly defending their partner when they could simply push the opposing wagon?

[Luca Blight]

I'd prefer a Duckworth lynch to an Una one, so for that reason....


UNVOTE:

VOTE: Duckworth

[Luca Blight]

Not fully committing to a strong scumread.

That is what I meant: he says he is willing to vote any of the lurkers, so he has an easy escape if anyone scumreads him, for voting me.

Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?

You're just making this up - I have done the exact opposite of this.

[Luca Blight]

I have a feeling many of you don't understand how much work goes into my process of picking the perfect watermelon when I am shopping at the supermarket.

This is literally the best thing you've said all game.

[Luca Blight]

There's not one person on this wagon that was innocent as far as the mislynching went. They all rushed it within the final hours.

Why is this scummy?

I second this.

I also don't think the attention should be only limited to those on the wagon as it was such an easy wagon (where a majority didn't even need to be lynched for it to go through at deadline) that it's very plausible mafia could be off the wagon as well as on it.

Also, is CK saying that if he was online at the time he would have abstained from voting Duckworth?

[Luca Blight]

Now seems to be the right time to reassess and make a reads list, so here it goes:

Assemblerotws

- The immediate thing I recognise when I ISO Assemble are the massive gaps between his posts - for example, after 155 he doesn't post again until 328, and then disappears again until 513 etc. The fact that so much has happened in-between his posts, and yet doesn't catch-up or post anything of any real value is pretty damning; to continue the example, in 328 he only pops in to explain his 17 post and in 513 comes back promising a 'full reread with analysis', which never materializes. His read progression/thought-process from post 559 until his most recent post in 747 actually makes some sense to me. His overall contribution isn't satisfactory however so i'll have to give this slot a scum-lean.

Realeo

- I certainly like his curious style of play, and he appears one of the more town-motivated players. He does, however, seem to 'float about' looking here and there, but not sticking with anything. His back and forth attitude over IceGuy confused me a lot, but I guess he wins some Townie point, given the flip, for meta-defending Iceguy around the 311 mark when IceGuy was under pressure. But then, despite agreeing with IceGuy's reads list in - he then is back to being 'open to lynching him' in 403, so yeah, as I said it's a tad confusing. I'm inclined to see this more as 'conflicted townie' than inconsistent scum, however. I find I'm skimming most of his (lengthy) ISO because I don't really believe in my heart this guy is scum right now, so I'm gonna leave this one there.

Chip Butty

- As much as dislike his long, tedious conversation with Realeo on D1 where they're struggling to understand one another, I kind of like his unvote on 225 when he was shown evidence of Realeo's tendency to 'theorise' in previous games when he was Town. His Duckworth vote in 256 is understandable, and he has conviction behind his points in 374. In 406, fence-sitting or conflicted regarding Una? I'm not sure, but it's at least an explanation for remaining on the Duck wagon. 408 - CB's conviction seems less here on Duckworth, grouping him with the other lurkers, which he says he'd rather leave for day 2 (which is fair enough). I like his reads list in 424 (and not just because I'm at the top). They feel consistent with his views this game. 440 - Some Townie points for changing his read regarding IceGuy in a positive way. His reasoning for switching to Una seems passable here. His reasoning for suspecting Mulch in 701 doesn't seem so great - offering to hammer Duck is completely NAI in my opinion given the situation. And CB himself suspected IceGuy previously, so I'm not sure why he would use that as a reason to scumread someone either. Taking everything into consideration, I would give ChipButty a Town-lean.

Ironstove

- Provided absolutely nothing on D1, not even so much as a vote. Today needs to be his day to shine, but so far no real improvement, and only a vote on Una which seems just lazy. If I don't see more today then I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be voting for an Ironstove lynch. Null-scum.

Mulch

- His attitude towards me and IceGuy confused me on D1 - He wanted IceGuy lynched, but seemed to scumread me a bit for my attack on IceGuy. He didn't like my case against IceGuy, but I thought I made my points a lot clearer than Mulch did regarding his IceGuy read. It was also weird how he said

I think that Luca's indignation and anger about the ordering of the town read fiasco with Ice is relatively villagery

in 463 after saying

133 has weak reasoning, perhaps in a scummy way

and then

I will give Luca a scum lean. I don't like some of his earlier posts

in 465- again, not sure if this is him being conflicted, but the whole thing feels a bit like he's readying my wagon for after IceGuy flips. His posting style of making many small observations and comments is one I have trouble acquiring a read out of. I agree with Mulch's 725 points against ChipButty, but is it enough for such a strong sudden scumread and vote? I don't think so. Overall, this slot confuses me but I would give it a scum-lean.

Alchemist21

- Alch's start is decent - inquisitive and active. His interaction, suspicion and unvoting of grapes early on all seems reasonable. He pretty much takes no interest in the IceGuy wagon throughout D1 and defends him in 168 so I guess for that he can have a townie point. He doesn't do a lot fot the next hundred pages until his Una vote in 246, which seems reasonable. He sits on this vote not doing a lot other than make the odd observation (no active scumhunting as far as I can see) until his vote switch to Duckworth in 635. Interesting to note that his switch was caused by Una's 631 which Alch liked as Town. Overall I'd give this null-scum.

CommKnight

- A quiet start, but I like the emotion behind his 188 post and vote. It was a matter that didn't even concern him yet he seems genuinely pissed off. His reads list in 192 is nicely done and make sense for the most part, although his Assemble TL is a bit weak. I disagree with his idea of only focusing on the Duckworth wagon in 681, but overall I've seen enough to give him a Town-lean.

UnaBombaH

- I didn't suspect Una partucularly on D1, maybe down to the IceGuy thing, but I accept that now I need to reassess on this slot. Basically, as Alch points out and Una admits, most of his posts up until 269 are kinda fluffy. There was something I liked about this post on D1 as well which lead to me not suspecting Una - it kind of felt like an honest admission of his playstyle. I'm not sure why he only vote IceGuy here when Alch finally calls him out on his lack of content, however. His readslist in 399 seems decent, although he seems far too accepting of Alch as Town based on little, but then others seem to have done similar with regards to Alch at this point in the game. I think given the flips and my other reads at the moment, this is the slot that needs looking at most urgently today, so I'll make another post soon with a more thorough ISO of this slot, but for now I will give it a scum-lean based on the flip and POE.

[Luca Blight]

If Una is town, grapes would not be guilty of that so much as Luca would be guilty in position on the wagon and generally going for the first mislynch scum!Luca sees happening.

What are you talking about?

I haven't been on Una's wagon the entire game.

[Luca Blight]

How can Ck say if Una flips Town I need shooting, when he's the one who has been pushing an Una lynch all game whereas I was the one who didn't want an Una lynch on D1?

I'm not even saying Ck should be shot if this happens (I think the vig should shoot who they deem to be the scummiest player, which is what I would do anyway) but it seems a bit ridiculous what he's saying here given the circumstances.

[Luca Blight]

Vote Count 2.0

With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

Assemblerotws
Realeo
Chip Butty- 1 (Mulch)
ironstove
Luca Blight
Mulch
Alchemist21
grapes
CommKnight
UnaBombaH- 5 (ironstove, grapes, Assemblerotws, Commknight, Alchemist21)

Apologies for not getting this out sooner.

Maybe CK is confusing me for Alch? Otherwise I'm pretty baffled by that logic.

For the last few pages I'll have to catch-up on Monday - I'm really busy this weekend.

[Luca Blight]

My reason for 640 was pretty much explained by 761 - I wasn't suspecting Una mainly because my biggest scumread was IceGuy, and the two of them were almost certainly not going to be scum partners given their clashes on D1.

Your conclusion that I should enter the vig pool based on an Una Town flip is completely skewed to the point that I can't make any sense of it.

It seems like you're saying I'm unlikely to be Una's scumbuddy, therefore if he flips Town I should be shot?

[Luca Blight]

How about the vig shoots who he wants. Why are we trying to limit the vigilante? They know themslves to be confirmed scum, and all this stuff is making me paranoid of you comm.

To me:

Scum: Chip, Iron
Semi Scum: Luca, Assemble, Unah


These are my reads.

I agree with this. (although I believe you meant confirmed Town, not scum?)

And I'm not sure if CK isn't reading my posts or is simply ignoring them. He's dictating who to lynch and shoot but not actually interacting with anyone in the thread which is bemusing.

[Luca Blight]

Prod dodge - will catch up in about ten hours time.

[Luca Blight]

Catching up..


Ok so Alch goes from being unsure on who he wants to lynch for today in 774 to putting Una at L-1 a mere 13 minutes later:

One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.

What Assemble said, and LOL. Riiight. Gotta be me or Alch right, at least one of us.

VOTE: Una

I wanted you dead yesterday and then the quick-lynch happened on Duck. You're not escaping this time.

Passing by again.
I just think GameNBurger was a weird kill over either of you, but maybe it's just me?

Also: how does no one think it weird that scum!Una would kill EITHER Ice or Game?
Especially Ice, but I think that was the vig.
Seriously, I don't have time until tomorrow or Sunday, but think about the night actions from scum!Una perspective.
Think about me tunneling Ice as hard as I did, why would I throw my everything into one specific lynch DAY 1?

There would be 1-2 others also giving input on the NK.

It's also possible that instead of being with the normal scum you are a Traitor and a member of the Rebel Alliance. Take him away!

VOTE: Una

L-1

Now to me, just because he was able to find plausible reasons for why Una's defence regarding the NK isn't completely sound, is that reason enough to put him to L-1 so quickly without yet looking at Iron, who he also suspects, and while Una still lacks time to defend himself properly?

Don’t anybody dare fucking hammer. If you do you better give a good fucking reason chip isn’t scum. If chip hammers that’s a scum claim regardless of Una’s allignment

I like the emotion here, but are you really saying if Chip hammers Una and he flips scum, that in itself is a scumclaim?

That's absurd.

2.) Unless anyone has any objections or a reason to scumread me, I say let me pick the pool since I haven't done anything unreasonable or jumped the gun today. The pool will be of 3 people total. Assuming the vig is in this pool, then at least they have two choices, if not, then they have 3.

Are you being serious?

So because you haven't '

done anything unreasonable or jumped the gun today

' we should all implicitly trust you?

And for what its worth, I'd say the logic behind your 'vig pool' is pretty unreasonable.

[Luca Blight]

Mulch and Realeo are really the two I'm not looking at and I still think Alchemist is probably not scum yet. Would need something more damning on him to make me think otherwise.

Why aren't you looking at Mulch?

Why would you need '

something more damning

' in order to consider Alch might be scum? He's not exactly Towning it up right now.

It's cringeworthy, indeed.

Is it really though? If we were making a pool of 3 locked. Would you really even consider me in the top 3 choices to shoot? Let's not kid ourselves here. I am trying to make the pool list because I'm not really on anyone's top 3 for any pool list to shoot into. So until someone wants to come forward and case me as scummy to put me in the top 3, I do not see a single problem with leaving myself out of it. On top of that, CB has had a problem with anything I suggest that might point to him or a potential buddy. But until he presents an actual case as to not follow what I suggest, it's basically trying jump into the ocean and hoping to make a tsunami.

So you're using the fact you're not well scumread to justify not including yourself in the vig pool, but that could apply to others such as me and Grapes, who you would include at your own personal whim. You also exclude Mulch, who seems to be scumread more?

grapes if Una = scum.
Luca if Una = town.

I just feel Luca Is objectively scummier than grapes. Why grapes if unah scum, not fighting if just curious.

Because if Una is scum, grapes potentially was trying to divert the wagon away from Una D1 and caused the mislynch.

If Una was town, there was no reason for him to divert it away from town.

This is just wrong for a start - scum diverting a wagon away from town and onto another Townie is a very common tactic as it causes confusion when people try to make association reads.

Furthermore, at the time of Grapes' vote the VC looked like this:

Vote Count 1.4

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

Assemblerotws- 1 (Realeo
Realeo- 1 (grapes)
Chip Butty- 2 (Duckworth, CommKnight)
GameNBurger- 0
ironstove- 0
IceGuy- 3 (Mulch, Luca Blight, UnaBombaH)
Luca Blight- 0
Duckworth- 1 (Chip Butty)
Mulch- 0
Alchemist21- 0
grapes- 0
CommKnight- 0
UnaBombaH- 2 (Alchemist 21, Ice Guy)

Also, I am aware I am a day late, but grapes has been prodded. He has 24 hours to post, or he will be replaced.

So not only is Una not in that much trouble here, Grapes also could have targeted IceGuy who was the more likely mislynch at the time of his Duck vote.

[Luca Blight]

You said those on the wagon are scummy and those off the wagon are scummy

We all know scum can be on or off the wagon. I'm pointing to people who stand out in some way. Note that CK LAMISTly points to his noninvolvement in the DW lynch.

You know you've thrown a lot of shade at the people outside the proposed vig pool. I'm thinking you might be scum that's afraid you'll be the one getting vigged.

But then, to be fair to Chip, it makes no sense to completely ignore those outside of the wagon (any of which would have hammered if need be, I'm sure), and would it reasonable to consider a Townie might also be averse to the idea of being vig killed?

If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?
Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?
And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?

Una:


How do I see the game right now? I think Iron has a very high chance to flip scum, and Chip a decently high chance to flip scum. Assemble has a greater than average chance to flip scum, same with you, and same with Luca. Although, considering the way that Iron and Chip have been pushing you, you are probably not be scum if both of them flip scum. I think Alch, Grapes, Comm, Realeo are really towny, and probably don't have more than 1 scum in them. I would say Realeo is my highest townread at this point.


I can see why someone would scumread me, because everyone is always paranoid of me.

I'm good scum so people always think I'm scum when I'm town because they want to have the accomplishment of beating someone good at scum.

So through that and PoE, yeah I can see. I do not see how someone can scumread me through association because every single person pushed one of the top 2 wagons so there is no validity to scumreading someone for that. ANd I definitely don't see the bullshit reasons Iron and Chip are scumreading me for.

I think Alch is town, but I don't know how much I value his townplay . I don't think I've ever played with him as town?

Bolded - so why aren't you considering this might be the case with Chip/Iron?

And why is Alch 'really townie'?

Ok I changed my mind again Chip is scum VOTE: Chip

I see no town motiviation for post 941

So before Chip's 941 were you considering he might be Town? And why are you so quick to vote here instead of questioning his reason behind quoting your 809?

What do you think of Chip's explanation in 952? Seems reasonable to me.

I think we're maybe being led down the garden path a bit with all the focus on the DW wagon. It was a pretty easy wagon for town to jump on to, once they thought it might happen. Yes there was probably at least one scum on it, but I'm pretty sure there was scum off it too.

Agree with this.

[Luca Blight]

Glad to hear you're Ok, Comm.

Could you elaborate a bit regarding Realeo's recent posts before you go?

[Luca Blight]

So before Chip's 941 were you considering he might be Town? And why are you so quick to vote here instead of questioning his reason behind quoting your 809?

What do you think of Chip's explanation in 952? Seems reasonable to me.

1) Yes 2) I knew his reasoning 3) Agree

So if you already knew his reasoning, which you just agreed is reasonable, why did you vote him?

And where do you stand on Chip right now?

[Luca Blight]

Una, it's all well and good defending yourself, but why aren't you voting anyone?


And with regards to this....

2) Because me killing/wanting to kill either GameNBurger or IceGuy as scum is ridiculous. I know, WIFOM and all that jazz.
But I would always take out the strongest and most vocal investigative players out, because those are the type that get lynches pushed through regardless of their role.
In this game it would've been pretty much anyone from mulch/Comm/Alch/Realeo (maybe even grapes) based on D1. Not IceGuy or GameNBurger. (not saying they aren't good players, just saying that based on D1, I can't see the logic behind killing them)
I would've taken out two of the probably easiest pushes I would've had for D2, and made this game difficult for myself FOR NO REAL REASON.

Could this not be said about any other player in this game? Why is it specific to you?

[Luca Blight]

CommKnight has generally produced more meaningful posts than Alch, who coasted through most of D1 and has sat on his Una scumread/vote most of D2, and the emotion behind some of his posts feels genuine. Ck's lack of scumhunting on D1 seemed more to do with being busy IRL, which doesn't seem to be the case for Alch.

That said, I really don't like a lot of CK's stuff today as I've made clear already, and the fact he has ignored most of my posts directed towards him makes me feel less comfortable with him.

[Luca Blight]

I just noticed that my lynch pool resembles CommKnight's lynch pool.

@LucaBlight

So Una didn't trigger you in his recent giant green text?

What do you mean exactly?

Could this not be said about any other player in this game? Why is it specific to you?

You are correct in that.
I was rather annoyed when I wrote that, so if Alch finds any scumslips in that post, I guess they must true.

I still don't get why you're not voting anyone.

Who should be lynched instead of you today?

[Luca Blight]

Grapes - so if Una is Town, you think me and Comm are scum partners despite the fact he's been trying to direct the vig fire onto me if Una flipped Town?

And what is it about my recent posts that make you feel I could be scum?

[Luca Blight]

Mulch, still waiting on this one:

So before Chip's 941 were you considering he might be Town? And why are you so quick to vote here instead of questioning his reason behind quoting your 809?

What do you think of Chip's explanation in 952? Seems reasonable to me.

1) Yes 2) I knew his reasoning 3) Agree

So if you already knew his reasoning, which you just agreed is reasonable, why did you vote him?

And where do you stand on Chip right now?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Alchemist

He's been coasting most of the game, and has been way too comfortable on Una's wagon.

If Una is Town then Alch would be a clear scumread for me.

[Luca Blight]

If Una is Town then Alch would be a clear scumread for me.

And if Alch is town?

Are you asking 'if Alch is Town would Una be scum?'

I wouldn't necessarily say so; Alch has been the one tunneling Una all day and most of D1, whereas Una has given Alch the benefit of the doubt by admitting his tunneling/confbias doesn't alone make him scum in posts such as 1042.

Una is certainly the better informational lynch, but I really haven't liked Alch at all since the beginning of Day 1 and I feel he has more chance of flipping scum.

[Luca Blight]

Could you not use such a 'scenario' to suit any angle you want? For example, picture a scenario where Grapes, myself and Una are Town - I guess such a situation would make you look quite bad.

Anyway, could you be more specific with what you mean about '

people using Una in a weird way that might be pushing multiple mislynches

'?

[Luca Blight]

Just so everyone is aware, I'll be on holiday from the 15th - 22nd so will be V/LA during this time.

I'll try and remain active in the thread, but I'm sure my time will be severely limited to do so.

[Luca Blight]

Speaking of which I'm currently nullish to slight town read on UnaH. I've been moving in that direction since late d1 when i said i could switch to Ice rather than back to UnaH if the Duck wagon didn't work out. I know i rated UnaH/Ice as unlikely to be t/t but I've obviously moved away from that. I'll try to do a d2 UnaH ISO soon, my current view is mainly impressionistic.

So who would be your preferred lynch right now?

[Luca Blight]

@Chip - from memory (I haven't got time to ISO atm) Realeo wasn't particularly unclear regarding his position on Una - he's been a bit indirect with his reads all game. His position on IceGuy was what had me confused on D1.

Anyway, your turn. Who is your preferred lynch right now?

Btw in a few hours time I'll be V/LA and will have limited access until the 22nd.

[Luca Blight]

I think my reads list hasn't changed much since the last one I posted. Alch is now more of a scumread than I had previously, CK is also down from town lean to null scum. Mulch is probably more null scum than scum lean now - I really can't read him at all to be honest.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: commknight

[Luca Blight]

Very surprised by chip and realeo's roles - given how openly they played I had them down as likely VT's.

I always had assemble down as a pr but he didn't appear threatening enough to be worth a NK.

There were a few strong players for town in this one so we did well to get the perfect win I think.

Good game.