Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[grapes]

Hi guys.

Bunch of new faces! Let's make this a fun game ya?
VOTE: Realeo

[grapes]

VOTE: grapes

They leave a sour taste in my mouth.

I've only ever seen town make this joke fwiw.

Why does your avatar look familiar it's from a game I know that at least?

[grapes]

Would you be my ThinkBig?

No thanks

[grapes]

I'll agree commknight is town on gut though

[grapes]

If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.

I don't like this.

VOTE: Alchemist21

I liked this as well.

VOTE: CommKnight
This guy was one of the people who sank me hard last time we played.

Are you going to crumb for your traitor?

No, for three reasons:
1: I'm Town.
2: The Traitor already knows the identities of the Mafia members.
3: If I were Mafia, my first move would be to recruit the Traitor.

And kinda believe Assemble here.

[grapes]

Grapes you seem easily pleased, if you don't mind me saying.

Anything you're not liking to far?

And the game is Suikoden II - nostalgia from my childhood.

Ah. Have only heard good things and actually plan to play at least Suikoden 1 one of these days, it's just my backlog is a million miles long at this point you know how it is. :p

And surprisingly no so far the only things I've found worth mentioning have been subtle townvibes. If I had to try and solve the game right this moment or force a scumread I'd say smoothblue's rvs vote was SO null that it has the possibility of being scummy? But that's again something probably better left in my head because I don't know for certain a lot of you would even understand where I'm coming from there.

VOTE: Grapes

Hello.

Hi there. Thoughts so far?

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

Now hang on a minute let's get something straight here.

I am in a constant state of solving; I always have reads. The strength of those reads are dependent on how much information is out there, in other words for page 2, if the game were to end right now I'd probably go

Luca/IceGuy/Commknight/UnaBombaH/Assemblerotws

Realeo/Alchemist/Duckworth/Chip Buddy/ironstove

SmoothBlue/GameNburger/Riddleton

I think those reads are probably kinda close maybe for what I've got to go on here? Might be wrong on a townread but don't really think more than one; the bottom two brackets are a lot more subject to change because like I said most of you have been kinda playing slow/close to your chest so far, which is fine, we have a couple weeks here and not everyone plays the way that I do.

But I am gonna get something going here;
VOTE: Riddleton

I think that it's fair for someone who hasn't played with me before to find it weird that I'd have those thoughts already; Luca for example came at that in a town way.

Difference being he asked if I had any scumvibes as well; while our friend Riddleton makes his entrance to the game a slightly modified echo of that giving me almost zero benefit of the doubt. But also while not putting a vote down.

[grapes]

Given that only grapes townread CK, I maybe set my standard too low.

What compelled you to say this?

[grapes]

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

I agree with this as of post #38. If you have a read on somebody who has posted a total of three words, it's not going to be a useful read.

Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.

But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.


Over the past couple months I've gotten used to far faster games than this.
And also consider how easy to read you all seem to be (this I've been kinda tiptoeing around outright saying because it sounds hella douchey but it's probably true)

Now watch me get burned by iceguy in lylo.

[grapes]

Do you normally go into lengthy explanations for everything?

I'm not one to normally do anything; I'll get long winded if I feel like it's warranted/I'm bored. Sometimes I wont.

At any rate I'm not sure "oversensitive" is the buzzword you're looking for here. Unless you're trying to say that every reaction made to something with a lot words attached is "hypersensitive" I'd like to know what about my response there seemed sensitive, like I'd appreciate a little more nuance than what you're putting down here.

Do you normally ask people for self-meta when you vote for them?
And what did you think of my stuff of riddleton?

[grapes]

Guess a better question would have been what everyone else's reads have to do with your read on him.

[grapes]

Cuz that isn't really how reads work
And seems a lot more like a scum mindset
VOTE: Realeo

[grapes]

It's not so much that I'm worried about people saying I'm scummy but people disregarding my reads. I happen to think they're important because, hey, they're mine and like most people I'm selfish like that.


How can you say that nobody was saying I was scummy but also think that I'm omgusing riddleton?
I disagree that my vote was omgus anyway; but it seems like you're trying to paint two different pictures to fit your point.

[grapes]

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

What other interpretations of this post could someone possibly have?

Like you're calling it a "minor poke" when he's not "poking" me at all he's calling me scum. lol
A poke would be a question.
You know that thing town do when they don't understand a thing.


A big part of my thoughts here that you're missing or intentionally leaving out is that this isn't even an original thought.
Which I think makes it more scummy; your only post is to sheep a thought but flatten it out into blank fos.

[grapes]

Realeo do you not have a reaction to my vote or?


And are you trying to say that I should think you're town because you asked a question to the audience about Commknight?

There's the difference you're looking for right there, context. Trying to figure someone out through questioning is a cool thing to take a gander at because not a lot of people can fake that well; your question wasn't trying to figure anything out but the consensus' opinion on a player and like I said there's more scum motive for you to do that than town motive.

Especially now that you've backed off from it for what could be a few different reasons.
Wanting to keep comm in your personal potential lynchpool.
You don't wanna stick out because you're scum.

It's a lot harder for me to come up with a reason why you'd approach a read that way as town but you could try and help me out.

[grapes]

As a side note, Riddleton is not an official member of this game, so any votes on him/her are null and void. Regarding the situation, I'm not sure what exactly I can do, or how far I can go with my power as the moderator.

Lmao

[grapes]

I asked that question as a sanity checking and to gauge people's tolerance.
Sanity checking is important because sometimes you off your mark and see something and too confident for it, so you need to actively benchmark your parameter once in a while.
Gauge people's tolerance is simply to test people consistency's in future.
You have been consistent with your tolerance with voting me and townleaning CK so I don't really think it's scummy.
The only thing that triggered me was your "If the game ends here" readlist, which I think triggeres Alchemist, but I'm not sure why his action is "Vote this scum bag" instead of "There are lot of unexplained variables. Would you mind to elaborate?" so you're kinda in the waiting list because he have higher priority.

I'm sorry but do you have an example of you doing this before as town? You're using terms I've never heard of like "sanity check" so this is either a thing you've actively done before or you're pulling an excuse out your bum.

If by "gauge people's tolerance" you mean see how they approach reads; then I suppose that's reasonable explanation for why you asked the question about commknight's entrance in the first place.

But what we're talking about is again why your read on commknight itself changed.


I'm gonna toss you another question because your last two lines are also interesting to me; why do your concerns with alchemist have anything to do with me outside the fact that your concerns are centered on his concerns of me?

The other interpretation is that you're reads are ill-conceived because they're rushed out. Not necessarily AI. If he was calling you scum he would have voted you. He could have been withholding a read on you one way or the other until seeing your reaction to 36.
Though you're right that I keep forgetting about the part of your issue being that you think it's not an original thought. Even so I just don't see the malice in riddleton's post that you're claiming is there. I think a vote would have been in that post if he was actually trying to take the idea and use it against you.

P.S. I was using the term "poke" to mean a minor aggression, not as in to poke around and investigate.

I feel like that's a pretty charitable stretch of an interpretation. But fair enough I guess;


On a similar note I'm glad that we know who riddleton was now that was gonna bother me if I had to figure that out on my own. : P
And my read there is now teetering a bit because duckworth, albeit delayed somewhat did put a vote down after fosing me as riddleton.
So meh.

Interested to see him talk about other people.

but the divisions, how?

It really depends. But it's normally
Town/Null/Scum

Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.

But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.

You made a list of people you consider town/null/scum. This list included people who've posted three words and people that aren't in the game. You posted things that look like they're useful to town, but aren't.

Why's it my fault I happened into a game with a bunch-o by the book nerdlings?

I had this thought the other day; to me the game's a lot like a bunch of simultaneous ping-pong matches representing the colors of the blocks of one of those slider puzzles. The matches are your and everyone else's interactions with each other and the slider puzzle is the game as a whole.

There's two layers to it. So with experience, meta, Poe, gut, interactions and other cool things taking a stab at solving the game page 2 becomes more of an accomplishable task.

And just to make myself clearer; I don't require a lot of content from a player to get even sometimes very strong reads.
That's how I play.

You think it's ridiculous, I think it's ridiculous how overcomplicated and robot like some people make their solving.
But I'm not gonna call you scum for it.
And I'm certainly not gonna discredit you for it; we only just met.

I also really don't like the way how you vote everybody who attacks you.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from; I've only voted for duckworth and Realeo so far.

Ney, the misrepping is "everybody who attacks you". I don't attack him yet he still vote him.

But sure. I can give you pass for that.

"No that's not what I was talking about"

"But I'll give you a pass anyway"

?

You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now.

Oh I see what's happening here you're not really reading the game.

Realeo retracted his townread on commknight based on the concesus not agreeing with him; I've actually talked about this a bit, iso grapes for detail and let me know what you think.

[grapes]

or turn shit around and engage

Really dislike the line where he predicts that I'm gonna omgus him.
Considering I haven't omgus'd anyone; feels a lot like he's sheeping iceguy's misinterpretation of events at any rate.

Also burger how would call what I've done this game not engaging?

Okay grapes is no stranger to writing long posts when he's town and chances are scum are trying to push an easy lynch giv he's talked the most, atleast in volume

I do honestly think there's something more reactive about his posts in this game, although the scumgame I read he mostly tried to lay low as possible, even to his detriment when he was shot for being too suspiscious. Maybe he's learned tho, which would ecxaolij this kind of ... unique behavior from himwere saying in this game. I thought the meta dive would make things clearer but I think it's just made it harder for me to decide here

I know the game you're talking about and allow me to correct a couple things.


It was multiball and I was crosskilled because I was widely townread.
Yes I laid low but the entire game was apathetic as shit that's kinda how opens went sometimes.

Grapes, are you aware that you're kind of feeding scum a bit here?

And why do you ask this question? Like that question comes off a lot like you're pretty sure I'm town but all I can gather from your stuff on me is waffle and discredits.

Have I been the biggest talking point? Sure yea. But people can only talk about how far out it is to have a readslist page 2 for so long.

what good did you possibly think a page 2 full read list would accomplish, and then dismissing criticisms for being to hyperbole?

And I think it did a lot of good. I was kinda sorta expecting maybe it would help some people here who go on gut a bit to read me better adn maybe open up a dialogue or two about some reads and get the ball rolling maybe. But attracting negative attention has its bonuses for getting one engaged and helping out perspective as well.

[grapes]

Prod received.

Reading up!

[grapes]

Pardon? I think I make the division clear between my concern against you and against Alchemist?

I realize it's annoying how stickler I am for details but can you put into words why you didn't think alch and I was scum/scum.

I agree that IceGuy is sketchy, but I am considering the chance if both grapes and IceGuy are cases of "awkwardly done transparency under good faith"

Not a bad post--mimicked my thoughts a bit.

Luca's heart seems to be in the right place; like normally I'd agree that iceguy's line "but I'm not convinced grapes is scum" would be scummy but you have to consider how early it was and how rigid iceguy seems to be.

Like that's probably the earliest scumread he's ever had.

@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?

@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grapes's account of his style without asking him what I have just asked him?

Not one of my prouder games but this one comes immediately to mind.

VOTE: gamenburger

@grapes

- why did you have my predecessor as scum early game?

Believe I touched on this a bit already but; Smooth and Game's rvs posts were a bit worse than the rest in that they were null to the point of kinda being scummy; I'm not sure if that's gonna make sense to you but there ya go.

Not a bad vote either btw.

I can see it's going to be one of THOSE games.

Shaping up that way.

I tr Commtown, his reads list is solid and I agree with it for the most part.

I also tr Realeo based on his posts in Page 8/9 about mafia analysis and his general tone when stating his philosophy on the game.

Chip's vote in 171 is strange and has little basis to it, especially so as we are out of RVS now. Many of his votes are reactionary and trigger-happy at mild issues and therefore they give me a scumvibe.

I still dislike the amount of reads that grapes good so early in the game.

VOTE: ChipButty

VOTE: Duck

[grapes]

I'm pretty sure duck flips scum.

And then I've got a scumlean on gameburger.

Gonna do some isos because I'm not quite content with that.

[grapes]

There's some pretty good stuff in mulch's iso but I wanna dig here a little.

I think that Luca's indignation and anger about the ordering of the town read fiasco with Ice is relatively villagery

I will give Luca a scum lean. I don't like some of his earlier posts

I'm curious what made you wanna go back and look at luca's early game when you thought his recent content seemed villagery.

Can you go more into what you didn't like from his early stuff?

[grapes]

I'm doing isos; not sure what was unclear about that.

Also what was the point of your last post? Like I cannot tell if you're calling me scum or you just want me to bulletpoint the things I've brought up regarding my read on you so you can flail about it or what but.

Yea, give a man some room to breath with all that.


Talk to me about why Unabombah's a "safe" vote; I'll iso him next.

[grapes]

Also just a psa; just because someone is 'lurking' doesn't mean that you get to hold onto a null read there the whole game.


Ducks content has been scummy lurker or not.

[grapes]

I guess a really rough readslist (it's so early, although it is an open game) would be:

Mulch/Assemble/Grapes
Alch
Comm/ (maybe Chip?)
Iron/Duck/Una
Realeo/Luca
Game
Ice

I'm comfortable with this, maybe put me one slot higher in your next list?

Can you explain why it being an open game affects how early reads can form?

This post was bad.
Do you agree with all the reads here unabombah or do you just see where's he's coming from even though there's no reasons?

I really don't like how the thing he pries into is the open-game reads bit and not any of the reads either.

Do you have any actual thoughts on the game currently?

I looked back through your posts and it's all jokes and pointless posts.

You must have some reads by now, even if they're weak.

This part is the most important one: I'm not one to normally shitpost through the game.
I've been trying a new approach to day 1.

The thing is: I suck at early game reading because I don't "understand" tone.
I mainly read interactions, and this game had very few good ones in the first 5 pages or so.
I already admitted as much: they all felt very weird and instead of AI reads, I felt like some of it almost gave better indications on IQs..

In a game like this that has either a slower start, or interactions I can't read well enough to react, I now tried to pull the focus on my own actions.
Anyone who has been noting my behavior in a negative manner so far has been gaining some minor towncred from me.

The thing about scum is that they want players who aren't "gamesolve-y" to make it to the lategame, and therefore don't always latch onto people who post, but only "keep appearances".
And that is what I have been trying to create: fluff.

Alchemist

is my first townread simply because they took the step to call me out on it.
On the other hand, I DO have one scumlean based on how they put their vote on me.

IceGuy

voted after Alchemist had "bit the bullet" in making a base for a wagon, and instead of following his reasonable argument, IceGuy only said he is willing to vote all lurkers and just happened to choose me from amongst them.
And therefore I shall VOTE: IceGuy.

Slight townlean on

Luca Blight

for calling IceGuy out before I got to it. (and also the Suikoden thing, that actually affects my gameplay..)

I'm gonna also agree with alch that devoting 3 paragraphs to why he fluffed a little bit in rvs is pretty bad considering that was all that he was getting scumread for iirc.

[grapes]

@Unabombah

Questions and comments are in purple.

I'm a bit surprised after reading the last few pages for being scumread/-leaned by so many of you!
Time to try and churn out content now that I've closed some of my other games.. (and no more fluff )

Most of these are still "gutreads", but the ones in the extremes are more based on exact interactions.

Townread:

Alchemist

for his general posting and interactions, absolutely no scumvibes there for me.

Which interactions and why?

Luca Blight

mainly for his IceGuy-interaction, albeit being on the aggressive side (would be easier to fake imo, but think it was genuine).
Some posts where I felt our thoughts are on similar tracks.

Townlean:

Mulch

mainly for his catch-up, have to admit I'm a bit weirded out with him not spamming whole pages alone, but maybe that is for the best?

Realeo

for his general tone: feels very relaxed yet confident. Haven't noticed any hesitance when commenting on anything! Feels genuine. "Defending" IceGuy based on meta is either confident Town, or very brave scum.

Curious where you've seen confidence in particular from realeo?

grapes/CommKnight

mainly on gut. Really liked grapes early walls when re-read, and CommKnights "compilation-post" and readslist.

Sidenote: red flag that he's got two slots together here.

Zero factors:

Assemblerotws, ironstove

(I'm not one to advocate lynching lurkers, but this one is just awful.. )

Which one? You've got two names here.

Scumlean:

Chip Butty/GameNBurger/Duckworth

mainly for gut-feels. They are all new players to me, and I'm currently thinking there's at least one scum here.
CommKnight townleaning GameNBurger based on meta sort of worries me.

Why is this a thing that looks like you're weighing for your gameburger read?

Duckworth has posted very little, and is closest to being "relegated" just by that alone.

What?

Scum:

IceGuy

for reasons multiple. Don't like any of his posts, and even though I don't dislike him for voting me, I dislike the reasoning.

UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing.

Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.

How? What?
So he votes for any of the lurkers, but votes for the one who posts..?
I know, he says he dislikes what I post too (and I don't blame him for that), but why bring up the inactivity at all then?
Just so that he can say that he is willing to vote all the other lurkers too? (= not willing to commit).

How is saying that he'd be willing to vote in the lurker-pool not committing to voting in the lurker pool?
Do you think it would have been scummier if he had voted someone else in the pool?

[grapes]

I'm here; didn't realize how close deadline was like that was the fastest two weeks ever.

Lemme grab some bagels quick then I'll get up to speed.

[grapes]

VOTE: IceGuy

I prefer unabombah.

Then why did you vote iceguy..?

[grapes]

Didn't mind una's response to me but I wanna follow up with this a touch.

I meant that it worried me, that I townleaned CommKnight, and rather strongly scumleaned GameNBurger.
I was also weighing in whether GnB would have been outright scum for me, if CommKnight hadn't "cleared" him based on meta.
Taking into consideration how my feelings on CommKnight shifted today, this actually pops up to me too.
Good of you to point it out.

Was there anything else besides the townread? Because i wasn't so much pointing anything out as I was alarmed at how the only thing you had to say about gamenburger was something about another slot's read on them when they were apparently a strong scumlean.

[grapes]

I'm gonna take some time to look at iceguy again but..

I got prodded.

Seems we haven't got long left.

I don't want to vote Una so I will vote iceguy instead as there doesn't appear to be any traction for a ChipButty or Grapes lynch.

VOTE: Iceguy

Can we lynch this instead guys?

[grapes]

Just looked at iceguy again and I'd still be kinda surprised if he flipped scum.

Like I've said he's just a more 'traditional' player and comes across stern as a result but I really like his thoughts in places.

This for instance;

Begging for town reads is not towny behavior, being useful to town and getting read as town is.

His first reads in #269 are lazy: he townreads a player pretty much everybody townreads, calls me scum for voting him (after two other people have also called me scum), and has a "slight townlean" on the guy that started the wagon on me. There's not a single original thought in that post except for "I was doing it ON PURPOSE!" which isn't really believable.

He then continues to post fluff until two hours ago, where he posts a read list. However, those reads are mostly useless. The three reads from before carry over, except that Chip Butty is now town instead of a "slight townlean", but the justification is the same. Five players are read "mainly on gut", two players are neutral as lurkers (which I understand, they really lurk). The Mulch read is useless fluff ("for the catch-up", yeah we know he caught up, but WHY?) and the Realeo read is the only useful read, except many have said essentially the same thing.

The read on me is based on posts from way back and basically parrots Luca a few days ago. Considering I'm his only scum read, I'd think he post something about my reads or the "first place on the townie list" thing, but he doesn't.

tl;dr: There is not a single original thought in any of his posts, but he keeps up appearances of contributing.

Just feels really town.

[grapes]

I feel like a shitter for slacking this game and trying to make things happen now.
But at the same time you'd be surprised what you can accomplish in a little less than a day.

If deadline were in five seconds and things were still the same I'd vote unabombah to get a lynch because I'm a little less sure there but still am currently thinking he flips town. The traction there is slightly better for the fact that I'm currently debating in my head who scum on that wagon would be if I happen to be wrong on game and kinda coming up short.

I'll try and give an organized post on duckworth to make that more enticing because I realized I haven't really done that yet and I can see why town would chalk that up to a lurker lynch which always sounds a little less than exciting.

[grapes]

I do think that it's null he didn't claim the alt slip straight away; being shy is a personality tell.

I tr Commtown, his reads list is solid and I agree with it for the most part.

I also tr Realeo based on his posts in Page 8/9 about mafia analysis and his general tone when stating his philosophy on the game.

Chip's vote in 171 is strange and has little basis to it, especially so as we are out of RVS now. Many of his votes are reactionary and trigger-happy at mild issues and therefore they give me a scumvibe.

I still dislike the amount of reads that grapes good so early in the game.

VOTE: ChipButty

So let's start with the post that initially made me vote him.

I don't think that townreading commknight for his readslist makes sense all that much when you dig a little deeper and realize that;
1) Most of comm's reads that weren't neutral were based on meta that I don't believe duckworth shares experience of outside realeo and alch; one of which was just a null-town read

2) His two scumreads are chip and I, so as far as scumreads go (the reads that actually matter) he only agrees with one thing; that chip is scum. Which is what duck's vote here is essentially in my opinion; capitalizing on comm's chip push but scraping up what he can to try and make it sound original.

The line "His votes are reactionary based on mild things, therefore they give me a scumvibe" makes me think he's trying more to sell us that he believes what he's saying rather than sell us on chip being scum; but is also as chip mentioned earlier on, a modified echo of one of the things comm was getting on chip about but just in broader terms.

--

My favorite part;

I still dislike the amount of reads that grapes got early game

Is very 'cover your tracks' for my taste. Or, "let's not be left open to questions".

But is also calling me town and scum at the same time.

Scum don't "get" reads.

[grapes]

Hey alch

I have to go sleeping now - I honestly hope to be alive when I come back.
If you decide to lynch me during the time I'm not around, I want to give my honest top three scum-reads/guesses:
IceGuy
CommKnight
GameNBurger

Go for IceGuy D2 if I'm not around, that should give a ton of context as a flip, even if I'm wrong on my read on him.
There should be zero chance there's not a scum on my wagon if I get hammered. (currently there is a SMALL chance, but I doubt it)

You think this is a scum post?

[grapes]

We got time.

Chip and ice said they're down.

I'd imagine una wouldn't mind switching.

I'm not sure what realeo's opinion on this lynch is but he'll be around I'll ask him then.

[grapes]

And according to the last vc ironstove and assemble aren't voting which is kinda unnacceptable at this point.
Maybe they'll find it in their hearts to contribute to a scum lynch in time.

[grapes]

Yeah.
VOTE: Unabombah

[grapes]

Alch isn't looking quite as good to me today. It was he who got the Duckworth wagon started in earnest late d1. This only matters if Una is scum though. I'm thinking maybe lynch Una and definitely have Mulch in the vig shoot pool.

Did it cross your mind that alch was the one who started the action on una for this thought?

[grapes]

There's not one person on this wagon that was innocent as far as the mislynching went. They all rushed it within the final hours.

Why is this scummy?

[grapes]

Don't have a lot of time but I've skimmed stuff.

Commknight, please explain why a last second runup is scummy and who to you vote wise looks the worst on the duck wagon.

Also if I were scum with una why would I go for the duck lynch when iceguy was already viable and I'd been vanity voting duck a good majority of the day already?

Chip's been a townread for me.

ironstove feels real now that he's saying things.

I like that realeo sorta put the brakes on una because that really would have been far too soon for a hammer and then asked people to talk about his other reads. I see scum pull lamist "let's use the time we have" stuff like that quite a bit but the fact that he had other things he wanted people to talk about made it feel more town if that makes sense.

I also wanna look more into assemble because I feel like whenever I glance over the game I don't see a post of his anywhere. That may be a slot that I'll need to have a conversation with but I'm not even sure where to begin engaging him from.


@Mulch, why is luca objectively scummier than me?

--

I don't think I'm ready to unvote una quite yet; and I feel like we're just getting bored a bit waiting for his vla to end. But we do have a good amount of time. I guess what I'm saying is I don't wanna let una lurk off his pressure as it were but it seems that that's already kinda beginning to happen.

[grapes]

Massive townread on Comm ATM.

Why?

[grapes]

Feeling fairly confident that Realeo is town, and CB vs mulch doesn't feel like S/S..so which is scum?

I dunno I might've found this thought process forgivable but I'm not sure how you arrived at a scumread on mulch at all on these pages and you're sorta just defaulting to one of them being scum. In other words why discount tvt altogether here?

[grapes]

@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?
If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?
Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?
And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?

If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!

And I don't really like any of these questions.

First one is way too general.
Second one is outright scummy I think.
Third ones relevance is questionable.

@Una, can you walk me through why you asked these questions and how they helped you get a better read on mulch?

[grapes]

I see no town motiviation for post 941

When I spat with people I do this a lot too.

I hold them to a higher standard and shine a light on every post I possibly can to find scummy.

Truth of it is that town and scum aren't always gonna make good posts every single time.

But my problem with this is that there is plausible town motive to chip's post; he thinks you're scum and doesn't want you getting overlooked by people who might have a hard time reading you; which to my memory at least a few people have said that's exactly their case. Heck, I'm gonna admit right now that I'm having a hard time reading you and whether this is you as town letting the omgus fuel your push and cloud your judgment or your scum picking at everything chip is saying.

And I also just really don't think chip is scum; so my suggestion is we have a dialogue about our reads there and see what shakes loose.

[grapes]

And I'm not sure if CK isn't reading my posts or is simply ignoring them. He's dictating who to lynch and shoot but not actually interacting with anyone in the thread which is bemusing.

I'm happy to hear I'm not the only person getting glossed over.


I'm not sure it makes all that much sense to try and dictate the vig shot N2 before you've seen the flip D2 yet, either.

[grapes]

3: If I were Mafia, my first move would be to recruit the Traitor.

Only Mafia knows whether the Traitor was recruited or not, so this could be him signaling to them that he should've been recruited.

Except that you left out the context where this conversation was about if assemble was gonna "crumb to his traitor"...

[grapes]

@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?

If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?

Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?

And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?

If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!

And I don't really like any of these questions.

First one is way too general.

Second one is outright scummy I think.

Third ones relevance is questionable.

@Una, can you walk me through why you asked these questions and how they helped you get a better read on mulch?

This was to prompt his readlist (got it btw). But this was also just a "warm-up" question to get to the other two.

This was to force him to talk about himself. Notice how he answered:

I can see why someone would scumread me, because everyone is always paranoid of me. I'm good scum so people always think I'm scum when I'm town because they want to have the accomplishment of beating someone good at scum. So through that and PoE, yeah I can see. I do not see how someone can scumread me through association because every single person pushed one of the top 2 wagons so there is no validity to scumreading someone for that. ANd I definitely don't see the bullshit reasons Iron and Chip are scumreading me for.

He answered with a strong and confident tone. He took the perspective of "of course I am obv.town, but if I reeally stretch, I can see WHY others think I could be scum."

And then he turned that same answer into an attack towards Iron and Chip (even though I didn't ask about them specifically).

Well, this is an "questionary technique" I use pretty much daily at my work too. Again, lets see how he answered:

I think Alch is town

, but I don't know how much I value his townplay . I don't think I've ever played with him as town?

Notice how he states right in the beginning that he thinks Alch is town in this specific game. My question could've very well been interpreted solely as "what is your assessment of his skill-level as town IN GENERAL?"
So for whatever reason he feels the need to give me two additional comments - he doesn't know how good Alch's towngame is, and he doesn't think he has played with town!Alch.

You guys just LOVE to discredit and scumread my every post, but I do my own thing - whether it works or not.
These specific answers from mulch made me think he wrote genuinely - but he could genuinely dislike being scumread as either alignment.
He felt the need to be more specific on Alch's alignment this game (even if I didn't ask exactly for that!), but chose NOT to analyze his reads or position in this exact game (which I originally expected).
Stuff like that.

I wasn't trying to discredit you I was just saying that I don't know why you would expect alignment indicative answers to the last 2 questions and that the first one couldn't have been you looking for anything specific.

And after reading your response I still don't think you really had "an angle" to any of these questions. Which isn't the scummiest thing in the world depending on what the questions are but it raised my eyebrows because you tailored these to a specific player.

For instance I don't know that you're actually analyzing mulch's answer about alch as much as restating what he said. Unless you're saying it's scummy that mulch didn't give analysis on alch's play in response to you asking if he respects his townplay?

[grapes]

Bah, I read up and don't really wanna lynch una anymore.

UNVOTE:

[grapes]

I'm playing like shit this game honestly.

How much time do we have left?

[grapes]

If una's town I bet the scumteam's like comm/luca/alch or some shit.

Ehhh, maybe not alch. I dunno.

Like hold on let me grab the playerlist.

Not knowing if there's a traitor or not makes this weird to PoE.

[grapes]

If Realeo's scum he's playing a pretty good game.
Chip could be scum but I don't really feel it.
Assemble who the fuck really knows. I'd lynch that over una after the last couple pages.
ironstove feels like dgaf-town
Luca after taking a closer look and a couple recent posts could be scum; probably not with alch.
alch has gotten discontented a bit; like a few have, sorta wanna know why he thinks una's mulch thing is so damning when it's not really all that scummy to assume a person's two alignments within the same line like that sorta depends on what they're actually talking about and i thought it was fine
mulch im going with town but one of us has really bad reads atm

VOTE: Commknight