Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Micc]

northsidegal, what you up to?

I feel like we both want to sort each other but that isn't going to happen if you don't want to talk.

[northsidegal]

i've been a little but busy but i've also been thinking a lot about this game. the more thought i give to the issue the more i think it's possible i'm reading through the thread with the goal of trying to make you scum in my mind to fit some narrative rather than objectively looking at things. for the sake of both the town and myself i think it's counterproductive for me to keep going with it, so for now i think what i'm going to do is just try to focus on other people.

as for what's happened with cheeky and cabd's claim, it's the same adjective i seem to be saying a lot this game - strange. i really couldn't understand what the slip was meant to be and when cheeky revealed it i didn't think it meant anything. i mean, i knew that arsonists couldn't prime and ignite on the same night before i signed up, so for someone of cabd's experience i would figure he'd have to know. with that in mind i find it really weird how cabd claimed. it didn't seem like anyone except cheeky was really pressuring him so i didn't think it was necessary, and if it was supposed to be obvious by that point then i didn't pick up on it. as with every time i make a post calling something strange, i have to explicitly say that i'm not trying to build a scum case here - obviously if nobody counterclaims then we should believe cabd. at this point i'd say i'm waiting to see where cheeky goes from here.

[Cabd]

For the record, I had explicitly intended to claim at some point in the game day given the self-protect semi-sorta-ish breaking things.

Cheeky just sorta forced my hand before I could play it up more.

[CheekyTeeky]

NSG do you have a readslist?

[Micc]

i've been a little but busy but i've also been thinking a lot about this game. the more thought i give to the issue the more i think it's possible i'm reading through the thread with the goal of trying to make you scum in my mind to fit some narrative rather than objectively looking at things. for the sake of both the town and myself i think it's counterproductive for me to keep going with it, so for now i think what i'm going to do is just try to focus on other people.

Cool beans. I can work that.
UNVOTE: northsidegal

The lack of ability to build momentum on any wagons so far this game makes me want to look for scum in the lower activity players. At the same time I'm conflicted because I generally view parking a vote on a player for lack of participation as a waste of time.

[Micc]

Also I'm home and eating food right now so cabd if you want to hammer out this breaking strategy I'm game. Your going to have to provide the inspiration tho because I'm not coming up with anything productive on my own.

[Cabd]

It's like 12:30AM. Sorry. I'm headed to sleep actually.

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: NorthSideGal

[Cabd]

I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?

[Sobolev Space]

damn sorry you had to claim so early cabd. fwiw i had no idea you were pr before you claimed.

obviously if anyone can cc they should now so we get a 1v1. i doubt this will be the case because it would be suicide from scum to claim at that point. the main reason we do this is to make clear that

if you don't cc within your next post you are waiving your right to do so at any time in the future

. this is to prevent scum from trying to claim doc when they're close to lynch.

i don't cc obviously.

i probably agree with cheeky that cabd should just self-protect every night. this way we don't have to risk going to lylo without any benefit from the doc and we get at least one conftown. but its your call at the end of the day.

[Sobolev Space]

in class now more thoughts when i get home

[Micc]

I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?

yeah that's where I got hung up as well.

how do you feel about what I said in post 229? ive got a lynch pool of kawso, BTD6_maker and hopkirk and then chip butty and northsidegal are on the second tier.

[CheekyTeeky]

I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?

Yep. Why is she pointing out weird stuff but hesitant to make a proper stand/push? It feels very scummy to me. I might change my mind if she produces evidence of reads, but I'm pretty sure she's saying stuff just to say stuff.

[Micc]

She dropped pretty far since your reads list in post 165 despite just making one post. can you explain that?

[CheekyTeeky]

a strange feeling about micc and NSG but I think I'll have to PoE these slots when I get more from my null reads,

You and her were hovering above the null reads, her last post raised my suspicion.

[Micc]

Yeah I can see that. your push lines up decently with what I was pushing her for. I unvoted to give her room to focus on other players which is what she said she wanted to do. She's not really taking advantage of that right now.... and with other two players in prod range and yet another on MEGA-VLA the game's stalling out...and she's still voting me?

idk. Im just gunna chill out and hope everything's all better by the time I get home from work.

[Hopkirk]

This is an overly strong defense of Cabd given the lack of real pressure that I can see.

like i said in some other post, it wasn't really meant to be a defense of cabd so much as pointing out strange behavior. i don't know if it's just me, but it seems like people are acting very odd this game and i'm having a hard time interpreting it.

It doesn't read like that since you don't really mention who you're talking about, so it's going to get lost rather than developed if bringing them to light is your intent.
Also people don't seem 'very odd' moreso than usual at this stage to me.

i tried to make it clear that the whole post was in response to cheeky's one post. that's why i put the "whole post for reference" in a spoiler. if other people don't see it (the strange behavior) then it's possible it's just me.

I'm not happy with this response. I was talking primarily about Cabd, and you don't really mention him, then later say i'm probably misunderstanding. I don't know how you'd clear up the misunderstanding without adressing the core bit.

That might affect possible breaking strategies

All that stands out to me with the self-protect is you can have an IC that makes it to "lylo" at the cost of never getting off a protect... which in the setup protects are unlikely to occur anyways.

I'm not sure a claim and self-proc is optimal. That just means mafia can ignite for a while, then kill all in one go when they know it'll give them a majority. The protect stops them being able to guarantee an auto-win at the end.

Why would you expect me to not answer if you removed the vote, and why are you treating the question of 'what do you think of x player (that you don't explicitly scumread)' as so significant?

Some players need a push to answer I've found. Also a vote can make a question feel more loaded to scum. I wanted to test a Hopkirk/micc possibility with the question. I don't know what to do with your response just yet. You were an initial scum lean.

Personally I never avoid any questions unless I miss them, and am of the opinion that avoiding questions is highly anti-town. I think I said in my last game something like 'I'd vote sem-confirmed town in lylo if they don't answer ******* questions.'

Given you've asked me for my thoughts on Micc when I hadn't mentioned him yet, (and given, though slightly less so, that you haven't really mentioned me outside there) I find it surprising you didn't mention why you're scumleaning on me. I'd like to hear your thoughts there.

Readlist incoming.

I asked for one read explination that you should have had already. This is a clear dodge.

[Chip Butty]

We've got Cabd as doc, BTD6 as v/la, and Hopkirk and Kawso in need of a prod. I also don't really want to lynch a lurker but I'm not yet getting any super scummy vibes among Micc, SS, CT, and NSG.

Of those four I'm finding Micc to be townest mainly because he refused to be fobbed off when burrowing on 56, even though i didn't give the answer he wanted right away. I think scum would probably have pretended to be satisfied and moved on more easily. However, of he is operating at the level of designing setups, we are probably screwed if he is scum.

[Chip Butty]

Oh Hopkirk's here. Should have paid attention to the ninja alert...

[Chip Butty]

Fwiw i think Cabd should keep his protection strategy to himself.

[Hopkirk]

Forgot to say above: Been a bit busy, reading through now. I saw Cabd claim, but otherwise will be giving thoughts as I run through. I thought Cabd was playing odd, but that’s explained now.

resignation to being lynched is more townie amongst newbies than not imo. especially trying to give advice for where to look for scum post-flip since scum doesn't really care what town does after they're lynched - they just want to stay alive - while town does.

for example in my last game we wagoned scum early d1 and they responded by being much colder than they were early game

Spoiler: quotes

You have misrepresented my conclusion and are continuing discussion of game mechanics after others have stated that's a bad idea. I find both of those approaches questionable at best.

You went from discussing mechanics yourself to saying that approach is questionable pretty quickly. What specifically changed your mind?

Sobolev and kittycap's exchange on page 2.

I gave a logical progression from point to point to conclusion, but you stripped out the qualifier in your recap. When I called you on the change you said you hadn't added anything to my conclusion, but in point of fact you subtracted from it. Why?

That is what I did here, but Green skipped my qualifiers and presented it as me making a black and white statement. I appear to being getting heat for what he said rather than what I actually wrote, which is super confusing to me.

meanwhile the newbie townie that we wagoned d1 seemed like they kinda gave up and resigned themselves to being lynched eventually and expressed similar frustration to chip as to the case on them:

Spoiler: quotes

If you guys are set on lynching me that's fine. if there's any questions anybody wants to ask before I'm hammered, feel free.

I was surprised to see him at the top of her town reads.

why not ask her about it? Does this affect your read on Sobolev? You said she was a top town read, why haven't you tried to reach out and get her to townread you?

It kind of affected my read, but overall I've seen her as town this whole game. I don't know exactly what you mean by reach out to her to change her mind. All I've done this game is post my honest thoughts and don't really see why my posts are "bad in iso." It seems the tone of the game has drastically changed on the last page which has been pretty confusing for me.

i didn't realize chip was as experienced as he was however, so the i'm not tring these as much as before

how much consideration have you accounted for regarding the time left in the Day? Looks to me like BlueBlake was at L-1 with 12 hours left in the Day and Sunlit Diamond went to L-2 on page 4. One player was basically 99% to be lynched that Day and the other maybe 25%. Transitioning back to this game I think its silly for anyone think that Chip was in danger of being lynched on page 4...and with that in mind its more likely that he was trying to dissolve his wagon instead of give sound advice to the town.

I agree with this (RVS is pretty null in general, and Chip wouldn't expect a lynch to be all that likely), plus one game really isn't enough to base it on.

Okay one last comment before i go. I don't think the wagon on NSG is sound. Don't know if it is scummy or not. More later.

Expanding on this was the most interesting thing in Chip's string of posts, so idk why it wasn't expanded on. Maybe sounds like he wants the lynch but doesn't want to be on it.
(please explain if not explained in the next pages)

[CheekyTeeky]

I asked for one read explination that you should have had already. This is a clear dodge.

I planned on explaning my read progression in the readslist but couldn't be bothered while I was out. I was biased on you from entry and your posts seemed too surface level, but when I townread Sobolev, and he town read you, I went back through your ISO more objectively and saw there was little reason to see you as scum apart from my initial gut feel.

[Hopkirk]

V/LA until the 16th of October

I will still try to post, though.

Anyway, is there anything in particular that anyone would like to draw my attention to?

In one game, my point about Cabd's making a point of not voting may hold. Of course, if they are known to do this in every game, it can be regarded as completely NAI. I will, however, analyse Cabd some more.

When you come back I'd like to hear what you'd read at this point.

I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?

yeah that's where I got hung up as well.

how do you feel about what I said in post 229? ive got a lynch pool of kawso, BTD6_maker and hopkirk and then chip butty and northsidegal are on the second tier.

What are you thoughts on Cheeky?

[Chip Butty]

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

I liked this, because it shows Cabd is reading carefully, and i think scum would have let Micc's misreading slide through.

[Chip Butty]

@Hopkirk: yeah I've been wanting to get back to that and im ISOing NSG right now. I'm split between 5 games and also am intermittently busy irl so just doing what i can. It's not like the game is moving quickly anyway, and most of my recent efforts have been responding to Micc's queries.