Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I hope Lily is alive

[Lil Uzi Vert]

While I disagree with LQ overall on this, I can see why one would vote for you there Taco. You said you would provide thoughts on the game at a certain date and you didn’t do that. You didn’t clarify that you couldn’t find time to again and didn’t ask if anyone mind if you could provide them a little bit later than previously promised.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

The thing is, I already went through Lalendra. I already tunneled them and decided there was a good chance they were Town. I never explicitly stated a change in read on her, but I did switch my vote and later made a readlist where she was in the lean Town category. So its not even that I have "all the sudden" changed my read on them. If you go back and look, I stopped pressuring her. That should be a sign to you what I was thinking about that slot.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

The thing is, I already went through Lalendra. I already tunneled them and decided there was a good chance they were Town. I never explicitly stated a change in read on her, but I did switch my vote and later made a readlist where she was in the lean Town category. So its not even that I have "all the sudden" changed my read on them. If you go back and look, I stopped pressuring her. That should be a sign to you what I was thinking about that slot.

I didn’t see that you do lean town on her for some reason. Odd.

Why don’t you suspect her anymore?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi,

Read 186 and tell me if you think I was still heavily Scum reading that slot.

True, later I said she didn't follow up with me. BUT I dropped it because I thought that it was more likely she was Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

The thing is, I already went through Lalendra. I already tunneled them and decided there was a good chance they were Town. I never explicitly stated a change in read on her, but I did switch my vote and later made a readlist where she was in the lean Town category. So its not even that I have "all the sudden" changed my read on them. If you go back and look, I stopped pressuring her. That should be a sign to you what I was thinking about that slot.

I didn’t see that you do lean town on her for some reason. Odd.

Why don’t you suspect her anymore?

Two reasons:

1) There are bigger fish to fry.
2) A lot of the reasons I was Scum reading her were based on misunderstandings.

[Lalendra]

 think Havo is town now because he's voting me upon request.

So true, scum never bus when a buddy is irredeemably fucked. Much town, such wow

Okay, yeah, my opinion hasn't really changed. Mumble doesn't really engage with LQ much at all, aside from a couple of comments about playstyle and strategy; Mumble is notably absent from LQ's readslist in 64, and LQ doesn't even really address Mumble until much later on. Instead he spends a lot of time disagreeing with my points on Mumble without ever really even mentioning him until after post 300, which is weird to me. I'm still not sold on the idea that this isn't distancing. I will need to really wait until one of them (whoever gets lynched D1) flips before I can really make much of this association.

lalendra's posts here seem to imply she thinks havo, mumble, LQ is the scum team and that's why i was asking.

I wasn't really saying anything about Havo's alignment in 643, I was more making fun of the fact that Mumbles was willing to town-read Havo just for "voting him upon request." I don't really find that to be alignment-indicative, it could be bussing or it could be a PL or it could be that they find the behavior truly scummy. Without a lot of context it's hard to tell. I just didn't like the reasoning there.

I think the game itself has bogged down and stagnated to a large degree. I think we need to move on to Day 2 honestly and I'm looking forward to the night.

I think Mumble is the best lynch right now and we need to finish this lynch and get to Day 2.

I agree 100%, this did more for my townread on Havo than all of their other posts combined. Regardless of whether Mumble flips scum or town (even if I think it will be scum), we will get a lot more information from the flip and be able to start making some more informed decisions once we're out of D1 circlejerk.

I'm torn between LQ and mumble.

You said mumble self voting cemented your scum read for him. What is it about LQ that's strong enough to question voting LQ instead of mumble?

Just...everything. I don't really know how to explain it, I'm just not finding that I'm satisfied with any of his responses. None of them make me go "Hmm, okay, maybe he IS town." My vote is staying on Mumble though because I am convinced he's scum, and even if he's not scum, his defeatist attitude, lack of real scumhunting and active lurking are not going to help town.

Like... This post is about as much in to detail that you are capable of or...

I assumed you're talking about what I said about you, and not what I said about Mumbles, because I felt like that was pretty clear. As far as my read on you, yes, that's "about as much in to detail that I am capable of", because as I said, it's not a solid read. It's a gut feeling.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm torn between LQ and mumble.

You said mumble self voting cemented your scum read for him. What is it about LQ that's strong enough to question voting LQ instead of mumble?

Just...everything. I don't really know how to explain it, I'm just not finding that I'm satisfied with any of his responses. None of them make me go "Hmm, okay, maybe he IS town." My vote is staying on Mumble though because I am convinced he's scum, and even if he's not scum, his defeatist attitude, lack of real scumhunting and active lurking are not going to help town.

Like... This post is about as much in to detail that you are capable of or...

I assumed you're talking about what I said about you, and not what I said about Mumbles, because I felt like that was pretty clear. As far as my read on you, yes, that's "about as much in to detail that I am capable of", because as I said, it's not a solid read. It's a gut feeling.

Well your gut is wrong. What is your counter argument?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Did RC review this game? I wonder if he could back-up mod one last time. We really need a VC.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

196, 222, and 231 are posts addressing a matter of principle. Plus I wasn't actually stating a Scum read on them there. 306, if anything, should be viewed as a null read, not a Scum read. This is pretty sloppy Uzi.

Town reads matter because they can create a Town block, which is necessary in some games. Granted I know you don't think much of Town reads, but that doesn't give you the excuse to ignore other peoples Town reads. Town reads are part of the game whether you want them to be or not.

[Lalendra]

Well your gut is wrong. What is your counter argument?

...Okay? Can't really counter "You're wrong." Because I might really be wrong, or you might be scum who is just saying that. I don't really have any way of knowing at this stage.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well your gut is wrong. What is your counter argument?

...Okay? Can't really counter "You're wrong." Because I might really be wrong, or you might be scum who is just saying that. I don't really have any way of knowing at this stage.

We have 36 pages. Your

gut

is wrong is the perfect counter to your argument because if you had anything more than gut then you would be able to counter my point. If you were to say I am Scum for x, y, z, then I couldn't possibly argue "your wrong" because its isn't an actual argument and doesn't address any of your points. So if I say "your gut is wrong" you better have something other than gut to base your read on. Saying you have a read based on gut shouldn't convince anyone of anything because of how easy it is for Scum to do the same thing. Do you see my point now?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

196, 222, and 231 are posts addressing a matter of principle. Plus I wasn't actually stating a Scum read on them there. 306, if anything, should be viewed as a null read, not a Scum read. This is pretty sloppy Uzi.

Town reads matter because they can create a Town block, which is necessary in some games. Granted I know you don't think much of Town reads, but that doesn't give you the excuse to ignore other peoples Town reads. Town reads are part of the game whether you want them to be or not.

Those posts still reinforce how you came off earlier and not being able to shake the bad vibe from in 306 implies your gut still leaned scum on her. Am I missing something?

I don’t believe in town blocks. I mostly ignore town reads because I find them harder to differentiate when they’re bullshit and when they’re not. It doesn’t help me sort players and solve the game basically.

[Lalendra]

It wasn't that I didn't see your point, it was that I had already stated that it was a gut read, so fishing for more concrete reasons is fruitless when I already admitted that I didn't have them. I was pretty transparent when I said that it was a gut read so your digging is pointless. Blood and turnips and what-have-you.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

196, 222, and 231 are posts addressing a matter of principle. Plus I wasn't actually stating a Scum read on them there. 306, if anything, should be viewed as a null read, not a Scum read. This is pretty sloppy Uzi.

Town reads matter because they can create a Town block, which is necessary in some games. Granted I know you don't think much of Town reads, but that doesn't give you the excuse to ignore other peoples Town reads. Town reads are part of the game whether you want them to be or not.

Those posts still reinforce how you came off earlier and not being able to shake the bad vibe from in 306 implies your gut still leaned scum on her. Am I missing something?

I don’t believe in town blocks. I mostly ignore town reads because I find them harder to differentiate when they’re bullshit and when they’re not. It doesn’t help me sort players and solve the game basically.

Here is the post:

Lalendra: I am kinda on the fence about this one. Like most things they say make sense, but I just get a really bad vibe from them that I can't really explain.

All you are looking at is the bad vibe thing. If that is all you look at, yeah, it looks like a Scum read. But I have never been someone who bases a read based on vibe alone. I making the point that it's a null read based on my conclusion of the slot which is that I was on the fence about Lalendra. "On the fense" is me stating overall what my read on them is. Why would I say that unless that is what I actually think of the slot? I also point out a thing that can interpreted as a Town read if you take that in isolation, so I don't see how you can see this read and think its a Scum read at all.

[Lalendra]

I do find it ironic that you are pushing me so hard on the "gut feeling" and needing more reasons yet you just said that your scum read in 306 was based on "a really bad vibe". That absolutely looks like a scum read, full stop. I feel that you're just trying to wriggle out of it now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Mainly because of the last part. I feel if it was null it would be just that you’re on the fence about them.

To me it reads like you can see why people think she’s town but the vibe I’m getting from the majority of her posts makes me still suspect her because I cannot shake it.

[LicketyQuickety]

It wasn't that I didn't see your point, it was that I had already stated that it was a gut read, so fishing for more concrete reasons is fruitless when I already admitted that I didn't have them. I was pretty transparent when I said that it was a gut read so your digging is pointless. Blood and turnips and what-have-you.

Yeah, and that is YOUR fault for not having good enough reasons that I can't counter. The burden of proof is on you. I say this as a matter of speaking and not literally, but the point is the same. YOU claimed I was Scum so YOU have to show WHY I am Scum otherwise your read means nothing because as I earlier stated, anyone can claim any gut read on anyone and it shouldn't convince anyone of anything. What is stopping Scum from giving a gut read like this that you have given? A: Nothing.

[LicketyQuickety]

I do find it ironic that you are pushing me so hard on the "gut feeling" and needing more reasons yet you just said that your scum read in 306 was based on "a really bad vibe". That absolutely looks like a scum read, full stop. I feel that you're just trying to wriggle out of it now.

That is because I am trying to teach you something about this game as opposed to actually Scum reading you.

[Lalendra]

So you didn't scum read me but you voted me anyway?

[LicketyQuickety]

Mainly because of the last part. I feel if it was null it would be just that you’re on the fence about them.

To me it reads like you can see why people think she’s town but the vibe I’m getting from the majority of her posts makes me still suspect her because I cannot shake it.

But that's not what I said and it shouldn't be taken that I implied that. If you still think this, it means you are Scum reading me before analyzing the information instead of the opposite.

[LicketyQuickety]

So you didn't scum read me but you voted me anyway?

No, I was kinda Scum reading you at the time I voted you. But you have to remember that it was early in the game and not much had happened. I thought you were talking about my read on you currently, which is that I read you as lean Town.