Hi again
Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I'm kinda wondering why you think 'DD and Wicked are probs town' here but didn't say anything about FlubberIn post 15, Jingle wrote:DD and Wicked are probs town, btw.
Apparently I should've voted for you to be townread by you too lolIn post 19, Jingle wrote:skitter probs scum.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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(She please)In post 58, Jingle wrote:Not alt, but think more along the lines of Xayzeck than a normal newbie. Particularly, he played a game with aphix where his play rather impressed me as town, and I'm not seeing the same thingies here.
I dunno who that is so I'm assuming this is a compliment lol. I also replaced into that game day2 and had a lot more to work with than ~20 posts made by people who clearly have a lot of history/context with each other that I'm missing.
I was asking about the Dunker/Wicked/Flubber votes cuz I thought it was odd that you were townreading Dunker and nullreading Flubber for making literally the same post right after each other, but I'm seeing that you are familiar with Wicked/ETL/Flubber so I'm now getting why you had a different reaction to the same post made by different people.
This is all sorts of ick. Why do you want to form a double wagon on someone who still hasn't posted? Why is this a good thing (you're a fan of it?) and what info would you get out of it? And why on Fykus in particular, out of everyone who only had one vote on them at the time?
Also, I'm feeling like votes on Two are kinda opportunistic/easy? Like, he's blatantly new, and awkward and bad does not necessarily mean scum. I kinda feel like he's an easy place for scum to go at that point (ie I'm talking about Taiho's vote on Two). I vaguely feel the same way about UC.
Pinging me, dunno why atm, I'll try to figure it out.In post 37, ironstove wrote:Hello, I rolled town again this game.
Lol at the first part. What are you seeing in Taiho?In post 49, Awoo wrote:Sorry for the delay, I've been running a lot of simulations and smartilligent statistical anal,ysis to try to formulate some interneural pre-reads and I'm pleased to announce that the next person to post is going to be confirmed town! Discuss.
VOTE: taiho <-- Good vote, not random
What do you think about this: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=73333&user_select[]=30239In post 82, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:JINGLE. WICKED. YALL. IVE LEGIT FOUND THE FIRST REAL SCUM. Check Two's tone in this game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72708
other town games readily available as well.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
VOTE: twoinamillion
This is also kinda ick? You like what you're seeing from him besides for the fact that he thinks he knows your meta? I feel like this is a weird thing to vote someone for, and to *deliberately* keep your vote on someone for, especially when there are sketchier people around and you like what you see from that person otherwise.In post 104, Wickedestjr wrote:I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
But I'm also not sure if scum!wicked would be trying to undermine a townread town!jingle has on him if they apparently have a relationship (like why take this approach instead of buddying him or something?), and I don't think this interaction comes from scumpartners with a prior history with each other.
K this is through post 104. I like have a major assignment due tomorrow and I haven't slept since like Friday, so I'm bowing out now (If the things I wrote didn't make much sense it's prob cuz I'm sleep deprived atm lol, I'll be able to explain better when I'm awake). I'll be around after class tomorrow.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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K, I was wondering cuz I think my towngames and scumgames are rather different imo, and I think you were able to get a pretty good feel for my town meta based on that one game, so I think you'd probably be able to get a pretty decent grasp of my scumgame too and tell the difference.In post 187, Jingle wrote:Nope, just the one, so far. I will eventually get around to meta diving you, but I'm likely to be a lower profile this game than normally, due to a bunch of RL factors.
I've read a dunker game, (at least one, possibly more) but he's unaware of me AFAIK. I was in one of Flubb's first games on site. I tunneled the shit out of Wicked's towngame for like 3 games in a row back in 2015. ETL and I have a long and storied history that amounts to her being one of my best friends, despite the fact that we haven't talked in a while. If she said she needed help with something I'd get in the car and drive across the country tonight because I'd know it was that important.Don't worry about ETL so much, there's a method to my madness and I'll have a solid read on her one way or another in a couple more pages.
What did you hope to gain from 27?
You said that you knew there were masons, and you made immediate townreads on Dunker/Wicked but neglected Flubber. I wasn't sure if you were crumbing that *they* were the masons, or if I was reading things that weren't there, but if you were crumbing that, I didn't see the utility in calling attention to it page 1. My next post was trying to see if that was actually a thing or if I was reading too much into it.
Based on the second paragraph above, I was reading too much into it.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I wasn't hunting for them. That's what I first saw when I read the first page. I was aware that I was a tad sleep-deprived at the time, and that I wasn't thinking clearly, and that I probably wasn't looking at that properly. The more I thought about it, the more unlikey I thought it was, specifically because the odds of just the two of them posting right after each other within minutes of you posting that was kinda slim.
Since I was pretty sure I made it up, I wanted to know why you were reading Flubber/Dunker differently.
That's why my first line of 27 was an observation instead of a question. I wanted to leave it open-ended. If I wasn't making things up, you could ignore it. If I was seeing things that weren't there, I wanted an answer for why it seemed like you were treating Dunker/Flubber differently for the same post, and that was an invitation for you to talk about it more.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Slept for a bit, turns out I have a fever which explains a remarkable amount about the last 36 hours.
I know I'm not explaining myself well, but I'm doing the best I can atm. Like, if you wanna talk about something cuz you didn't like or understand what I'm saying, ask so that I can try to explain or clarify or whatever.
This is where I'm at:
(ordering within tiers doesn't mean anything, it's just the order of how I remembered people)
townlean: jingle, Dunker, Awoo
null: Fykus, Flubber,
scumlean: ETL, Two, Nic, Taiho
Jingle - idk how to explain this right now. Best vote on my wagon.
Dunker - feels very chill, free-flowing, very carefree
Awoo - Good vote on me. closer to nulltown than townlean
Fykus - yeah his one post wasn't AI, so I don't have a read here
Flubber - I don't really remember him saying anything significant
Two - might be scum but I don't like the reasoning people are giving. The meta-tone scumread is bad and I explained why in depth cuz that's just how he posts. 84 was too defensive. The vote on me is bad, but that's just how he rolls so I dunno if it's AI
Nic - bad catchup was bad. Dislikes all of my posts, but quotes on one of them to explain whyTwo is bad? That . . . makes a ton of sense. Like it looks like he was just agreeing with posts without actually looking at who wrote what and isn't really looking at if they make sense together. Little analysis, lots of agreeing/disagreeing with things that have already been hashed over, doesn't add anything new about why things are bad. Vote on me was bad, maybe even the worst tbh.
Taiho - don't really have an opinion besides for the fact that the vote on Two was kinda opportunistic. More nullscum than scumlean
ETL - I dunno, might be scum. Push on Two is bad, but I wanna see what she has to say about what I wrote earlier about Two. Vote on me was bad. I absolutely hated this:
Too defensive and too much shadethrowing for Jingle's question of 'Are you scum?' and comment of 'needs to start towntelling'. I don't know where she's getting the bolded from cuz I don't see where Jingle implied that at all.In post 64, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:hiya jingle! so glad you're here. i don't like your angling at me. stop it. ask me real questions if you're actually trying to get a readinstead of just trying to make it seem like you have reasons to scimread me.
UC and IS - shitposters that I didn't get anything useful out of
(p-edit note: UC's ETL vote is kinda weird but I think I like it? Like it's so off base and out of touch with the thread that it comes from clueless town?)
Wicked - conflicted - I really liked questioning of Jingle's townread, but some of their other posts feel kinda off and forced. I dunno where to put him atm.
I don't think ETL and Two are scum together-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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@Two:
Cool. Bad vote became worse vote:
1. You didn't seem have a problem with it at the time my post when I wrote it.
2. The wagon on me is kinda bad to begin with, and naked voting me for the L-2 vote is awful
3. It's like a belated OMGUS via sheeping. You didn't explain (and still haven't explained) the original post you made when I asked you about it, but are later sheeping someone else's reasoning for not liking my explanation for why I didn't like that post. Your explanation for voting me is quoting Awoo, who said that he thought I was fence-sitting on you, even though I said I was trying to probe your thought process and you never bothered to respond to the points I raised there. The fact that you added in [post by 2iam] makes it seem like you literally have a problem with my post because I was questioning one of yours. I'm also like the only person who gave a legitimate reason (ie not meta-tone based) for why you're sketchy here, and you're voting me.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I never said you were playing any sort of newbie card, so I dunno why you feel the need to defend yourself against that accusation. I said you were new and that it might be hard to distinguish between bad and scummy play from you.In post 211, TwoInAMillion wrote:First of all, I'm not "blatantly new". I'm not playing any sort of newbie card. I have a very good record for the games that I have played.
And second, saying that my posting is "all sorts of ick" and then criticizing my wagoners for being opportunistic is pretty much the definition of fence sitting.
You actually are playing the newbie card though.
You're using your join date as a reason for why people shouldn't scumread you.In post 80, TwoInAMillion wrote:That's what you're basically trying to do is to cast doubt on my ability to vote/argue/find scum based on my ms age, thus hoping people will take your side in the future.
And no, for, like the fourth time, I'm not fence-sitting. I didn't say I scumread you at that point. I said I thought the post was bad. I didn't say it was voteworthy, or that it made me scumread you. I asked you to explain what you were thinking so that I could try to assess it and figure out if it was scummy or not. I think that it's very easy for scum to push 'bad' as 'scummy', and that hopping on your wagon without actually trying to sort you or analyze what you were thinking is opportunistic.
I'm *still* waiting for you to explain it though.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Cuz at the time I wrote that, the closest thing I had to a read on you, as I said earlier, was 84, which I found to be overly defensive. I could see caught scum saying that if they felt like they were caught for the wrong reasons.
Everything else you posted was similar to your town game or NAI or bad and the cumulative read was very slight scumlean, but close to null, so I wanted you to explain a post that I found interesting (I note that you still haven't) to try to develop a read on you.
This convo, especially your explanation for my vote, is strengthening the scumlean.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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In post 225, TwoInAMillion wrote:I think its more of an omgus tbh.
Your vote on me is OMGUS. You're voting me for questioning a post that was written by you, as you felt the need to emphasize when you quoted Awoo.
I'm finding your opening post to be bad, 84 to be overly defensive, your vote on me an awful combo of OMGUS/sheeping/opportunism (you didn't even announce it was L-2) , playing the newbie card, and still ignoring my questions.
I don't see how you could reduce that to OMGUS.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I also thought the timing of Two's claim was a bit early, and was surprised to see it.
I think I believe the neighborizer part - it's a really odd claim for him to pick out of a hat if he was trying to create a fakeclaim out of wholecloth to prevent a lynch. Like, neighborizer isn't a 'get-out-of-jail-free card' claim for a day 1 lynch. It isn't like cop or anything. It's also proveable, so I dunno why he'd claim it if he wasn't.
I don't think that the claim makes him town though.
This feels distance-y and/or bus-y.In post 256, Awoo wrote: Get this: if TIAM was really looking to read skitter, he would have read 184 and seen his response to what I said about fence sitting, then responded to that, if anything. This just appears as pushing the wagon for the sake of pushing the wagon instead of trying to formulate reads and sort.
This feels kinda fake? Like an overreaction, almost. Kinda false-bravado-y?In post 271, Awoo wrote:LOL
I sure hope my scumreads don't flip scum or else im in trouble! ..sorry I think I got brain damage while you were shaking me.
In post 276, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
Why didn't you just ask me about this post? You say you prefer people to ask you questions about things they don't understand, yet do not follow your own advice.In post 203, skitter30 wrote: ETL - I dunno, might be scum. Push on Two is bad, but I wanna see what she has to say about what I wrote earlier about Two. Vote on me was bad. I absolutely hated this:
Too defensive and too much shadethrowing for Jingle's question of 'Are you scum?' and comment of 'needs to start towntelling'. I don't know where she's getting the bolded from cuz I don't see where Jingle implied that at all.In post 64, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:hiya jingle! so glad you're here. i don't like your angling at me. stop it. ask me real questions if you're actually trying to get a readinstead of just trying to make it seem like you have reasons to scimread me.
???In post 185, skitter30 wrote:
Can you elaborate on this please? Namely, why do you think he was doing the bolded?In post 64, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:hiya jingle! so glad you're here. i don't like your angling at me. stop it. ask me real questions if you're actually trying to get a read insteadof just trying to make it seem like you have reasons to scimread me.
I think I'm townreading the bit I quoted from 276 though. It's the annoyance I think. My overall impression from ETL from the past two pages is a townlean.
Me in scum survival mode is panic-lurking. I hate playing scum. I am not a good scum player. I get flustered and defensive and do stupid things as scum. I lurk, avoid talking about things that I think are in any way controversial, and make a post or two just before a prod would go out. I hate getting wagoned as scum and don't know how to respond to it so I tend to lurk it out, and would prefer to just let the lynch happen than trying to fight it. I wouldn't be posting here when I was sick or had an assignment due, and would just use that as an excuse for not posting for like two days while getting wagoned.In post 283, Jingle wrote:Unfortunately, it could come from scum in survival mode so it's more null than anything, but I do WANT it to be town.
This is all self-meta though so should be taken with a grain of salt and is basically meh.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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@Dunker:
I mean, I haven't unvoted . . .
I think it's cuz Jingle thinks that if there are not other PT-related-role-claims, Jingle's claimed role makes Two town.
It's also cuz the game-state is kinda funky atm. There's way too much support for either my lynch or Two's lynch, so it seems like scum like what's going on atm. I know I'm town, so I know I'm a mislynch. If Two is town, it's also a mislynch for them. If he's scum, it's incredibly likely that there's bussing going on, given how there isn't really anyone saying 'no, let's not lynch him', and no one is vouching for him.
It's also like two days after the day started, and ending the day before a bunch of people have made posts with content is kinda silly, and way too early.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I don't think my read was inconsistent. His opening posts were mostly bad, but I didn't think they were AI from what I'd seen before from him. His vote on me was god awful and opportunistic and just really bad, and that in conjunction with several other warning signs (his bad opening post, his overly defensive 84, playing the newbie card, ignoring questions that are being asked of him, relying on a claim to get out of a lynch, no scumhunting,) make me scumread him.In post 316, Wickedestjr wrote:skitter- There are some weird signs (her post 27, her inconsistent read on Two, her town reading the first two votes on her own wagon), but I'm not sure that any of these are scum tells. Gun to my head, I would say that she is town but that is in large part due to her interactions with Two. I don't think they are scum together.
I also don't see why townreading the first two votes on my own wagon is a weird thing? You can be misreading me and still be town. Like, having a wrong read doesn't make someone scum. Just because the vote is on me doesn't mean I have to dislike the vote or scumread the person making it.
Jingle was remarkably accurate about my meta, which surprised me since I don't know him at all, but it was a reasonable conclusion to reach based on those two posts and how I approached that game he read; I understood how he got there, and it seemed like a natural thought process.
I like the way he's feeling caution about the current gamestate, since it feels kinda weird atm. Like almost too easy? When lots of people are agreeing with each other and few alternatives are being proposed or discussed, it feels like scum are happy with the way things are going. I also like how and he's been analyzing my own wagon and Two's. Ending the day right now would be silly, and I think we should look at other slots before we end the day because a lot of players haven't really given much content, so I like and support the push on Awoo (see below). His frustration at only having two scumreads at this point seems genuine.
Also, I believe his soft-semi claim; he's very clearly analyzing the thread through a 'PT' mindset (assuming that I was hunting for masons?) that doesn't seem faked.
I liked the way Awoo approached Tai, and I liked the way he questioned my post about Two, even though he read it wrong. I'm getting sketchy vibes from him directly after the Two claim though, so he's gone down in my reads.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I still don't see why people are having an issue with the thing I said about Two. He did bad things, but not necessarily *scummy* ones, for him. I hadn't formed a conclusion about him from just that post, so I felt like I needed more info to determine if he was being awkward or scummy. At the same time, I disliked how the votes on him were formed. He was sketchy, but I also thought the votes on him were sketchy, and I didn't have enough info to determine yet which one was sketchier, which is why I wanted to talk to him. After his vote on me and my convo with him, I found him scummy so I voted him.
I think Two is scum. I am not convinced that you are, so I'm not voting you. I don't tend to move my vote without strong impetus, and you haven't provided a strong enough one. I also don't believe that I need to actually be voting you in order to sort you or to put pressure on you: the things I've said about you has prompted you to provide rather interesting reactions.
Questions/Comments:
1. Why are you believing Two's claim? You didn't say anything about it when he first claimed, and you seem to be implying that you *know* (ie not just think or believe) he's a neighborizer when you say 'but there are neibghors and neibghgsdgfhghorizers as TIAM is'.
2. You're literally doing the exact same thing that you're calling me out for. You kept your vote on me while stating that you support the Two wagon without switching your vote, even though in 256 you strongly implied that Two was the bigger scumread. Why didn't you vote for Two at that time? Your actions weren't matching your words. You expressly said you intended to 'vote him in the future ' in 271, but neglected to vote him then. You imply that it's because you were unsure about making the L-1 vote, but . . . there aren't really that many opportunities to get on a wagon without casting the L-1 or hammer vote, so I'm not sure when you thought you'd have the opportunity to vote him in the future.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Fair enough. I haven't really gotten wagoned that often in my limited number of towngames, so I can't really point to a time I've town-read the first two votes on my wagon. Closest thing I've got is here. First vote on the wagon, and we got into like a five-page argument about him wanting to vig me. (That was an interesting game, right jjh?)In post 343, Wickedestjr wrote:I completely agree with you. The only reason I called this weird is because I feel like, as town, most players (myself included sometimes) are slightly more inclined to suspect their attackers. So I was remarking that it's rare to see a town-aligned player town read their first two voters - from my experience at least. But if you are scum and Jingle/awoo are both town, then it would make more sense for you to town read them because you'd know that they are town. As I said before, this could easily just be your play style, though. I need to check your town meta at some point.
Spoiler: @Awoo, for 346-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Why'd you switch your vote?In post 386, TwoInAMillion wrote:My scum reads right now are skitter and ucv.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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You were voting me . . .
Why would you not keep your vote on a scumread when there's some support for my lynch, and instead move it to start a vanity wagon, while using the fact that some third party was lurking as a reason to justify this?
Basically I'm asking why you moved your vote off of me if I'm a scumread and there's support for my lynch?-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Yeah, you do? As town, your goal is to get scum - your scumreads - lynched. There's a wagon on me; given the current gamestate, it would be a lot easier for town!you to stick with a developed wagon than to start a vanity wagon out of nowhere.
Do you actually think that voting UCV at this time is going to get him lynched?
Tbh I feel like you aren't actually reading the thread. You pop in to make grand statements about your meta and town track record and about your role, but you aren't actually *doing* anything this game.
You say me and UCV are scum . . . but you take your vote off of me while there's a viable wagon on me to start a vanity wagon.
You say that you/dunk/jingle should be a townbloc, which is, quite frankly, absurd, as Dunk is actively pushing your lynch, and you're one of Jingle's biggest scumreads.
You didn't even know where your own vote was.
I don't see you trying to catch scum, or trying to form townreads, or like, do anything useful.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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You were under the impression you were leaving the Taiho vanity wagon to vote the UCV vanity wagon.
You're attributing reasoning to actions that never happened. Your reason for switching your vote *from me* to UCV is that *Taiho* was lurking, and when I pressed you on it, you changed your story to say that you left my wagon because you didn't think my wagon was going anywhere.
I think we're going around in circles now though, and I'm going to leave to do hw now I think.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Hi Luv!
Meh, fair. I can argue minutia for like forever, but I get that it can be annoying, so I'll drop it if you want me to; I'll revisit after a flip.In post 426, Awoo wrote:SKITTER:The only thing I'm learning from this 1v1 is that we are both good at misinterpreting each other's posts. I'm burned out on confronting you directly, and nitpicking over little points isn't going to help me develop my reads. Take that however you will.
So let's talk about something else instead. Who are your top two lynches today?
A wagon developed on Two, I didn't like the reasoning people were using, a wagon developed on me, Two claimed, and the wagon on Two is still a thing and most people seem kinda resigned to his lynch.In post 431, UC Voyager wrote:jic i got a prod.....
i honestly am having a hard time following the game. can someone fill me in with a breif and to the point summary of what has happened so far....
What do you think about a Two lynch? Do you have any scumreads other than ETL? Any townreads?
Tbh, I kinda feel like the game has kinda stagnated, and that people are kinda around waiting for *something* to happen to affirm the Two lynch, or for some new wagon to develop, but nothing's really *happening*. Like, I look at the game, and I don't really have anything to say cuz nothing really happened since the last time I was here. I'm hoping a new perspective will serve as the impetus for discussion.In post 439, Flubbernugget wrote:My reads haven't changed since you've opened up. I don't think they will.-
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@Dunk: I was actually thinking the same thing, and but I didn't want to get bogged down in a line-by-line nitpicking thing again.
@Awoo:
Here's the tldr version:
-> calls people out for my wagon being a popular place to park their vote based on my early posts, when you . . . parked your vote on me based on my early posts
-> now fine with the Two wagon, although you were (I think - you didn't actually answer this) implying a townread in 346
-> Once again not actually voting for the Two wagon, although you're fine with it (although tbf I dunno if you wanna end the day just yet, but you didn't give that as a reason for not voting. Last line of your post implies he expect the day to end soon with a lynch on Two; I dunno why you're not just doing it himself but whatever)
-> Awkward unvote that isn't followed up with a vote. Why didn't you place it on another scumread if you don't want it on Two for whatever reason?
-> Tbh like all of your interactions with Two sound like coaching to me.-
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LUV, I agree with quite a lot of what you're saying.
Kinda disappointed that hammer happened just before you started posting
Also that hammer was kinda gross too.
@Awoo (prob won't be getting an answer to this, but here we go anyway):In post 458, Awoo wrote:VOTE: TWOINAMILLION
Here's your hammer. If this flip makes me look bad at least I can say that I lynched scum.
-> Not sure why you didn't wait for the catchup
-> Not sure why you think the flip is going to make you look bad.
-> You were implying a townread earlier, so I'm still not sure where the re-emergence of your scumread on Two happened-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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@Awoo:
I think I've made you angry and upset, and that was never my intent in any way, so I'd like to apologize.
I think a lot of the frustration on both of our parts stems from miscommunication and misunderstanding. I'll say A and expect B to be the conclusion from what I said, but you see C. And you'll say X, and expect Y to be the conclusion, and I'll see Z. I think we're both seeing scummy behavior in the other because we're having trouble undertanding each other, and are attributing intentions and implications to the other's posts that were not intended to be read that way.
What I was having trouble with on Day 1 is that I thought your read on Two was odd; I was seeing you implying a townread on a major scumread when people seemed less inclined to lynch him, and then I thought you went back to a scumread later when people were talking about ending the day. And I didn't really understand why you were changing your mind.
Basically what I was trying to get from you for much of day 1 was this:
I think I was misinterpreting that sentiment as a townread on Two, which is where my confusion stemmed from. After seeing this, I think I was equating your hesitation with the lynch with 'oh awoo thinks two is town', when that was not in fact what you were implying.In post 502, Awoo wrote:Where you point to me 'townreading him': It was a point when people said "These two wagons are on town since there's too much support" (TIAM, skitter), when I said that only holds true for one (TIAM). Yes, this is a source where my hesitation came from. People read my hesitation as being TIAM's partner. *shrug*
I think a lot of the problems you're having with my posts towards the end of the day stems from, again, this miscommunication we're having. If you'd like, I can explain what I was intending with those posts. If you think that will fuel further miscommunication and frustration, let me know and I'll back off.-
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I think you saw the following as me trying to get you to hammer?
This was a response to the following, not to Dunker's statement of wanting to end the day. That's why I listed a bunch of reasons why I thought you were being wishy-washy. I was hoping you'd clarify your position on Two. I wasn't trying to manipulate you into a hammer.In post 456, skitter30 wrote:I was actually thinking the same thing, and but I didn't want to get bogged down in a line-by-line nitpicking thing again.
I wasn't ready for the day to end, especially since LUV had promised an imminent catchup. I don't think I was trying to hide this sentiment (and I'm not sure what else you thought I was hiding, so if you'd like to talk about it, go for it):In post 455, Dunkerdoodles wrote:i feel like this is kinda a stalling post to see if an alternative wagon will form.
I didn't start with pushing you cuz after rereading the day, I think the way I was talking with you had pissed you off for the reasons explained above, which wasn't what I had intended at all. I decided to try backing off instead of going into a questioning thing, because I realized that would likely provide fuel for misunderstanding and miscommunication and frustration, and to instead give you space to explain the hammer your way.In post 453, skitter30 wrote:I'm hoping a new perspective will serve as the impetus for discussion.
Does this help clarify anything?-
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I thought it was strange that you had a major scumread on Two but had never placed a vote on him. I then followed with the fact that you might not want to at that time because you weren't ready to end the day, which I thought was a reasonable position to have, but I thought it was weird that you didn't actually say that.In post 512, Awoo wrote:-> Once again not actually voting for the Two wagon, although you're fine with it (although tbf I dunno if you wanna end the day just yet, but you didn't give that as a reason for not voting. Last line of your post implies he expect the day to end soon with a lynch on Two; I dunno why you're not just doing it himself but whatever)
Basically, it seemed like you wanted to vote but didn't give a reason why you weren't doing it, so it looked to me like you were just vocally lending support without actually doing anything about it, which looked like stalling to me. Like, if you had wanted to hammer Two, I'd have expected an 'intent to hammer' or something to indicate you were serious about placing a vote.
(I was also indicating that I didn't want the day to end yet there)
I wasn't trying to get you to put your vote on Two but was trying to understand why you unvoted without placing it on another scumread, which is why I asked, 'why didn't you place it on another scumread?' I was trying to hear more about your other scumreads, which is also what I ws trying to get at here:In post 512, Awoo wrote:-> Awkward unvote that isn't followed up with a vote. Why didn't you place it on another scumread if you don't want it on Two for whatever reason?
Basically, those were two unrelated issues:In post 453, skitter30 wrote:So let's talk about something else instead. Who are your top two lynches today?
1. I was seeing a reluctance to vote Two despite him being a major scumread, although I thought that might be because you didn't want to end the day
2. You didn't vote anyone following the unvote - I wanted to hear more about your other scumreads
So yes, I was implying that I thought you should vote . . . a scumread that wasn't Two since you didn't seem to be interested in voting Two at that time.-
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I tried Kafka on the Shore about a month ago, but just couldn't get into it; I gave up maybe ~100 pages in.In post 524, ironstove wrote:I have some good reads: Kafka on the Shore and Flash Boys.
I'm so tired... about ready to sleep but it's 3 PM, I feel like that's a terrible idea.....
Awoo, can't you tell I'm town? Why are you asking me these questions. You should be focusing in on finding scum you idiot.
I dunno why but I think I'm townreading that last line?
Can you share your reads with us pleasae?
During Day1, you were incredibly . . . vague and non-descript. I literally couldn't remember a single thing you said besides for the fact that you were OK with lynching Two. While this should default to a null, this was starting to lean towards a scumlean because I literally don't remember you taking any sort of stances, kinda like you were trying to skate by under the radar without committing to anything. However, I've before confused this sort of behavior as being scummy when it was actually coming from a PR who was trying to not attract a night kill, and I thought this was maybe what you were doing.In post 520, Flubbernugget wrote:I have a result on dunkerdoodles
So, I kinda believe this, but I'm finding it odd that you decided to target one of the most townread individuals in the game, and then didn't bother to explain anything or try to convince us of the veracity of your result.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Is this referring to having a red on Dunk, or that Jingle can still be Normal?In post 564, Flubbernugget wrote:Confirming with my own eyes-
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He isn't a mason-encryptor:
In post 288, Jingle wrote:The masons bit isn't a confirmed thing in my role PM, btw, just something I think is more likely than not given my role. Like 80% chance.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Yeah I'm not seeing confirmed scum yet. I'm seeing someone with a maybe-result who's being cagey, for possibly good reasons, so I can't make a judgement yet.
I don't get why we're all assuming he has a loyal modifier? And a loyal modifier can't give a hard-guilty. Only hard innos. And I can think of a couple of ways that he'd get a no-result with a loyal modifier that don't necessitate having been roleblocked.
I'm finding it odder that Dunker doesn't seem very concerned about the maybe-guilty Flubber has on him.
p-edit: you guys type fast. I want to see if Jingle cc's that variant spot, cuz then we have confirmed scum in that slot. That's why I'm not making a hard judgement on whether or not Flubber is telling the truth yet.-
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Why? Suggesting we wait for Jingle to see this is like the most reasonable thing he's said. I do think he needs to elaborate on his result though.In post 587, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
ok i'll vote you for this post aloneIn post 582, Flubbernugget wrote:Skittles and dunkerdoodles are right
Enabler is also normal
There's an easier way to solve this. If jingle catches up on this and cc's me, we have a town for scum trade which is probably better than a potential clear anyway.
VOTE: flubber
Where are you getting this from?In post 581, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:also flubber scum flip confirms awoo-town.
Or this?In post 583, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:which also means two of skitter, jingle and ironstove are the partners.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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This makes sense; I hadn't made that connection.In post 592, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
1) no scum posts this to a partner who's faking a guilty.In post 521, Awoo wrote:...you performed an investigation on one of the most townread slots?
2) check my reads list from the start of the day
Do you mean that they'd be trying to jump on Flubber or Dunker here?In post 593, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:also, if flubber was actually town, where are the scum flocking to "jump on the easy target"?
Either way, literally only you, me, Dunker, and Flubber have posted in the thread since Flubber (kinda) elaborated on his result an hour and a half ago, so we don't know how everyone else is going to react to this.
I don't think I'm defending him. I'm trying to find out if his info is a) trustworthy, b) actually a hard guilty on someone, c) made up, and/or d) in direct cc with someone else who's already softed. I don't think this can be resolved before flubber fully outs his result, and/or Jingle responds to this.In post 594, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:all i see is you defending him, skitter.-
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In post 593, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:also, if flubber was actually town, where are the scum flocking to "jump on the easy target"?In post 598, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:you. flubber. you would be the easy target.In post 598, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:you're not even thinking like town... you're assuming dunker is the easy town target in this scenario... that makes zero sense if you supposedly have a guilty on him.
How is this not what you're doing here?-
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I don't really know how to talk to you about this, because you're attributing your suspicion to a ping and don't seem to be able to articulate it.In post 604, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
bolded pings me so hardIn post 587, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
ok i'll vote you for this post aloneIn post 582, Flubbernugget wrote:Skittles and dunkerdoodles are right
Enabler is also normal
There's an easier way to solve this. If jingle catches up on this and cc's me, we have a town for scum trade which is probably better than a potential clear anyway.
VOTE: flubber
I will say that the bolded is precisely what I like about that post, because I think the first step to resolving this is seeing what Jingle has to say.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Ok, so we don't live in the direct-cc universe.
ETL, I'm finding your response to all of this to be rather odd.
Can you explain how your behavior here differs from how you believe scum would be responding to a town!Flubber claiming like this?In post 593, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:also, if flubber was actually town, where are the scum flocking to "jump on the easy target"?
This post is really, really weird. You say that Flubber is confirmed scum, and that I'm a major scumread, and a viable partner for Flubber. You aren't talking to me in this post like you actually believe that. You're talking to me like you're trying to convince me that Flubber is scum, which is a strange way to interact with someone you believe could be Flubber's partner.In post 574, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:skitter, flubber is absolutely, 100% confirmed scum right now.
I still don't understand why Flubber is 100%, confirmed scum here.
I don't want to lynch Flubber today, as I believe that night actions will likely resolve this: if he's dead, he's said that his flip will inform us about Dunker's role. If he isn't dead, we have another night of results to sort through tomorrow. If he refuses on later days to out his results/role, we can deal with it then. I see no reason to resolve this via a lynch today when it's entirely possible he'll die overnight and resolve the situation for us in that way.In post 607, Jingle wrote:Also, ETL, get your head out of your ass. Why does flubbs fakeclaim not a hard guilty with almost no pressure on him. He’s 90% town 10% insane. And in either case he lives at least one more dayphase
I'm more interested in exploring reactions (especially ETL's reaction) to the result/semi-claim at this time.-
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Fykus is one of two people (the other being UCV, who I don't think I'd get anything useful out of) who never ended up on my wagon or on Two's wagon over the course of day 1. He ended up voting ironstove, which I kinda feel like was a way to avoid taking a hard stance on either myself or Two. I want to know if a Two townflip changed his opinion on Ironstove.In post 610, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Why did you ask Fykus specifically as opposed to everyone?In post 487, skitter30 wrote:Wicked, nice tetrameter lol
Fykus, what do you currently think about Ironstove?-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Look at the timestamps (in my time):
11:24 - I make an offhand reference to him in a post about someone else
11:25 - he appears and comments on his ETL vote
11:28 - I ask him about Flubber/ETL/Dunker, and note that he seems to have been summoned when I mentioned him.
I'll also note that he was listed as being an active user on the main page for at least a few minutes after I posted that before I left, and is currently listed as one while I type this.
Also, your post about LUV was pretty much the one I wanted to make, and was planning on doing so when I got back from class just now.
Flubber never said he was a loyal cop and instead strongly indicated he wasn't one; Dunk came up with that. Both ETL and LUV are acting *as if* he claimed loyal cop with a hard guilty on Dunk (and are implying that he must be lying since loyal cops don't work like that), when it is quite apparent that he *does not* have a hard guilty on Dunk. He's very obviously considering alternate explanations for his result, and part of that was seeing how Dunk responded to it.-
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Dunk, your reaction to this is also pretty weird.
1. I don't know why you keep on proposing that he has a loyal modifier
2. You are explicitly denying having a role that would mess with results like ascetic/miller/commuter etc
3. You seem unconcerned that there's a maybe-guilty on you, and aren't trying to say that Flubber is lying or whatever.
Like, it feels like you accept the veracity of the maybe-guilty and aren't doing anything about it besides say that a loyal modifier shouldn't be giving a false positive when Flubber never said nor implied nor indicated that he has a loyal modifier. You're specifically protesting a result that 'loyal-modifier-Flubber' could have, when he never claimed that, and you're kinda ignoring the larger issue of the fact that he claims a maybe-guilty.
I feel like you're taking refuge in the idea that he might have a fake-guilty from a loyal modifier, even while saying that you don't have a role that would correspond with such a result.
I dunno how well I expressed this; I'm having trouble figuring out how to articulate what I'm seeing from Dunker.
Also, I won't be around till tomorrow night.-
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