Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame


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Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:57 am

Post by Jingle »

I'm pretty upset that we're not scum with AP, tbh.

VOTE: etl
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Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:57 am

Post by Jingle »

There's masons, btw.
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Post Post #12 (isolation #2) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:22 pm

Post by Jingle »

Who am I not scum with? Also, hi wicked and flubber. It's been hella fortnights.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:35 pm

Post by Jingle »

I did, but in my defense everyone was doing it.
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Post Post #15 (isolation #4) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by Jingle »

DD and Wicked are probs town, btw.

EtL needs to make more mouth noises.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #5) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Jingle »

I need two more votes to operate at peak performance.
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Post Post #19 (isolation #6) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:23 pm

Post by Jingle »

skitter probs scum.
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Post Post #22 (isolation #7) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:39 pm

Post by Jingle »

+1

So Flubbs, disagree or agree on Wicked?
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Post Post #28 (isolation #8) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:53 pm

Post by Jingle »

Bad flubber.
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Post Post #29 (isolation #9) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:55 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 27, skitter30 wrote:I'm kinda wondering why you think 'DD and Wicked are probs town' here but didn't say anything about Flubber
Because Wicked is 70% town and DD is 60% town and flubber is a null read.

VOTE: skitterVOTE:

And no. Voting me is not an automatic townread anymore.
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Post Post #30 (isolation #10) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:55 pm

Post by Jingle »

VOTE: skitter

Don't drink and type, boys and girls.
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Post Post #32 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 23, taiho wrote:
In post 21, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 20, taiho wrote:VOTE: flubbernugget

taiho
Im hurt :<
Don't be hurt, being a joke is fun. It's what makes me so lovable!
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Post Post #33 (isolation #12) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Post by Jingle »

Lol flubbs.

Wicked would be 1000% town if this was two years ago, btw.
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Post Post #35 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:08 pm

Post by Jingle »

Personal relationship between the two of us. Strength of the read depends on how well he remembers me more than any change on his part.
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Post Post #40 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:24 pm

Post by Jingle »

Hm.


Town:

Tai
Wick'd
DD

Needs to start towntelling:

ETL
Flubbs

Scum:

Skitter
2Million


I am to away now, before I continue spamming the thread.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #15) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:34 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 51, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:jingle you should have figured out in town by now. anti would have gotten it. also how would know if there's masons?
I'm a wizard, not the mod. Also, I'm a wizard.

#softclaim
was gonna vote skitter for being skittish ( :giggle: ) but the more i think about it the jumpiness is more of a town tell imo, especially with that joindate. unless alt. but meh...

hi flubber!! hi wicked!! i've missed this game.
Not alt, but think more along the lines of Xayzeck than a normal newbie. Particularly, he played a game with aphix where his play rather impressed me as town, and I'm not seeing the same thingies here.
@two - what town *should* do and what townies *actually* do are unfortunately completely different things.
I dunno, she seems to be voting scum, so I'd say tai is doing pretty good on the what townies should do front.
jingle convince me who is scum.
/insert All is Who hydraslip with scumclaim
wicked, what do you think on two-ish pages?
ETL, are you scum?
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Post Post #62 (isolation #16) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:38 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 56, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 10, UC Voyager wrote:VOTE: UC Voyager
In post 11, UC Voyager wrote:UNVOTE:

OMGUS
VOTE: UC Voyager
what the shit is this and why did it not get addressed?

VOTE: UCV

i'll get you later awoo. unfortunately i can only lynch one scum a day *sigh*

p: yeah but whyyy flubberrrrr

awoo vote is general feeling of forced entry. icky post was icky.

In order...

Trolly site chat newbie and yeah, forced entry into a game is icky, but this is after me being all cryptic mastin 1.0 all over the thread and you know better.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #17) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:39 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 61, Dunkerdoodles wrote:everyone that's posted on this page is town

Shhh. That's a secret.
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Post Post #65 (isolation #18) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 60, Flubbernugget wrote:Also jingle's soft was pretty obvious
+2
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Post Post #70 (isolation #19) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:46 pm

Post by Jingle »

UC Voyager is pretty null. Think Lucky2U or Who. Wouldn't be surprised by a Jester flip there in a game I was modding that had no Jesters. Not a TERRIBLE vote, but I expect more gooder from you. :P

I'm being all cryptic and mastin-y, but old school mastin-y before she got pulled out of her raging egomania and people who don't know that don't enter the game naturally at all. It's like looking at Page 2 of a game where me and TTH have been reciting erotic poetry to each other and saying the awkward post is scum because it's awkward. And you know better than that. You know how people respond to mastin better than anyone.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #20) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:46 pm

Post by Jingle »

Or explaining!
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Post Post #116 (isolation #21) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:38 pm

Post by Jingle »

Ooh, etl saw the things. Good.
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Post Post #125 (isolation #22) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:23 pm

Post by Jingle »

Spoiler: Wall of Quotes!
In post 101, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 99, Flubbernugget wrote:I'm also surprised you're up and down a new guy's tone yet haven't said anything about me. I've had a shift after a job change a lot of older players immediately picked up on.
because i've determined that you're town.
Oh? Please tell.
In post 102, Awoo wrote:General question, how often making a dumb move like self voting in RVS is an actual scumtell as opposed to a weird/noob playstyle tell?
Rarely, but it's frequently worth exploring in RVS due to the low impact nature of RVS.
In post 104, Wickedestjr wrote:Eh. Not a lot for the first three pages. I kind of liked Dunkerdoodles saying "everyone on this page is town". I think UC's entrance felt kind of townish to me too, if anything - felt slightly relaxed/fearless. I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
Could have? Yeah, mosdef. Would have? Not if you remember who I am and what I'm like.
In post 105, TwoInAMillion wrote: I don't see anything wrong with being aggressive. I have a history in my games of being town, and being town read, so I know what I need to do to catch scum. There is no downside to being aggressive early unless you are
scum
lynched for it.
FTFY. And there are actually other downsides, but getting into them now is both a waste of my time and directly harmful to my win condition as town.
In post 110, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:maybe hats what he was saying was mastin-inspired... ? i don't know. i've never been great at reading jingle so i'll let him prove it elsewise i guess. i'm not feeling awesome about him but i don't want to go down that road just yet. i'd like to compare notes with the two of you until something doesn't click and go from there while sorting the people i don't know actively.
Pshhh. You wouldn't lynch me day one if I were a guilty child.
In post 117, skitter30 wrote:
In post 58, Jingle wrote:Not alt, but think more along the lines of Xayzeck than a normal newbie. Particularly, he played a game with aphix where his play rather impressed me as town, and I'm not seeing the same thingies here.
(She please)

I dunno who that is so I'm assuming this is a compliment lol. I also replaced into that game day2 and had a lot more to work with than ~20 posts made by people who clearly have a lot of history/context with each other that I'm missing.
First, I apologize in advance if I mess up any genders. It's something that matters 0% to me personally, so I frequently forget that it matters to other people. It's not intentional, but there's a good chance I will slip up and refer to people by the wrong gender later on in the game.

Second, yes, it is a compliment. While Xay doesn't play much (if at all) anymore, he was my pet newbie for a while (the newbie I would follow around and give advice to after his games) because he impressed me with his first on site game.

Third, it's not an available information thing, it's a I think town you is more likely to engage in the things actually worth discussing than to ignore them and throw out a shitty RVS vote when there's a wagon ready made.
I was asking about the Dunker/Wicked/Flubber votes cuz I thought it was odd that you were townreading Dunker and nullreading Flubber for making literally the same post right after each other, but I'm seeing that you are familiar with Wicked/ETL/Flubber so I'm now getting why you had a different reaction to the same post made by different people.
They were actually very different posts, but I'll leave that topic for a few days from now.
In post 36, TwoInAMillion wrote:I'm a fan of double wagons day 1
VOTE: Fykus
This is all sorts of ick. Why do you want to form a double wagon on someone who still hasn't posted? Why is this a good thing (you're a fan of it?) and what info would you get out of it? And why on Fykus in particular, out of everyone who only had one vote on them at the time?

Also, I'm feeling like votes on Two are kinda opportunistic/easy? Like, he's blatantly new, and awkward and bad does not necessarily mean scum. I kinda feel like he's an easy place for scum to go at that point (ie I'm talking about Taiho's vote on Two). I vaguely feel the same way about UC.
This, to borrow a phrase, is all sorts of ick.
In post 37, ironstove wrote:Hello, I rolled town again this game.
Pinging me, dunno why atm, I'll try to figure it out.
In post 104, Wickedestjr wrote:I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
This is also kinda ick? You like what you're seeing from him besides for the fact that he thinks he knows your meta? I feel like this is a weird thing to vote someone for, and to *deliberately* keep your vote on someone for, especially when there are sketchier people around and you like what you see from that person otherwise.

But I'm also not sure if scum!wicked would be trying to undermine a townread town!jingle has on him if they apparently have a relationship (like why take this approach instead of buddying him or something?), and I don't think this interaction comes from scumpartners with a prior history with each other.
:neutral:
In post 123, Wickedestjr wrote:It didn't sound at all random... By disagreeing with Jingle town reading me, that seems to imply you had some reason for thinking I might be scum.
+1


Also someone mentioned the words "I don't think Jingle as scum would do that". You are objectively wrong. Things scum me has done: laugh in the post game when ETL says at least her Jingle townread was accurate (Post reveals, mind you), get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched", play an entire game using speech to text from his phone and nothing else, begin a game by getting into a giant fight with a hydra of two of the people who know me best on site for shits and giggles, hardbus my partner D1 as a policy lynch because he was rude, take conftown thor into LYLO... Etc. Simply put, nothing is sacred and I will do whatever I damn well please as either alignment. Well... Until scum shoots me for being so obvtown they'll never get me lynched.
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Post Post #160 (isolation #23) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:18 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 131, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 116, Jingle wrote:
Ooh, etl saw the things. Good.

WHAT THINGS?!

In post 117, skitter30 wrote:
I was asking about the Dunker/Wicked/Flubber votes cuz I thought it was odd that you were townreading Dunker and nullreading Flubber for making literally the same post right after each other, but I'm seeing that you are familiar with Wicked/ETL/Flubber so I'm now getting why you had a different reaction to the same post made by different people.

Jingle I like this. Why don't you?
I've been suspecting Two without pushing him since page 1 or 2, and you picking up on him is the type of paranoia I expect from town you. I was kinda waiting for that. As far as skitters goes, I'll explain my reservations soon.
In post 134, Wickedestjr wrote:I hope that this is another topic you will be explaining a few days from now?
Honestly? There's a thing I want to have happen, and then as soon as I have the free time I'll get all hyper explainy.
In post 155, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:skitter has fewer posts than tai, and yet waaaaaaaaay more content to review.

*sigh*

here's where i'm at for the moment. i should really get back to work. end of the fiscal year and all that. i guess i'll be back later tonight or tomorrow :(



town - flubber, dunker

feels town, but are they? awoo, skitter

null b/c no content - fykus, ironstove, notknown15, tai

null b/c i dont know - wicked, jingle

blech - UCV

scum - TiaM
Awoo is town. Tai and Wicked too. I'm withholding judgement on Flubs.

Glad we can agree on 2000000 though.
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Post Post #168 (isolation #24) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:38 am

Post by Jingle »

:lol:

So hard.

<3 ETL.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #25) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:43 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 170, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I would greatly appreciate some insight to your current skitter vote.
27 is the single worst post so far in this game, including the trolly selfvote.
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Post Post #173 (isolation #26) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Jingle »

I don't smoke. Weed just makes me afraid I can't breath.

She actively avoids interacting with the information in the thread when she comes in, including an L-3 wagon, a softclaim and two naked votes to naked vote an unrelated person who hasn't posted yet, and immediately after suspicion is brought up about her doubles back to ask a bunch of questions about the things she just ignored while focusing in on the ramifications of the read on her, not what it says about any of the other players.
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Post Post #176 (isolation #27) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am

Post by Jingle »

Hmm. Disappointing.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #28) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:52 am

Post by Jingle »

Okay, in the meantime, thoughts about my response to you?
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Post Post #186 (isolation #29) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:21 pm

Post by Jingle »

I've got nk15 as a going to get replaced for posting delinquency before the end of D1 read, so...

The first step to proving me wrong, btw, is to get an avatar.

Also, a brief meta dive suggests that UC and IS are both high risk for shitposting, but will likely increase in usefulness and content as the thread gains content, so I'm content to push things that are likely to be scum until it's proven that I need to ridicule them for not playing the game.
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Post Post #187 (isolation #30) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 185, skitter30 wrote:a) Not having enough sleep over the past couple of days to the point where I can tell my thinking has been a bit fuzzy. Like I can tell that things *happened*, but I don't necessarily have the brain power at the moment to actually figure out what it means.

b) I think I saw something in the you/dunker/wicked/flubber interaction there that I wasn't really ready to explore at the time and still want to hold off on for a bit, especially cuz (going back to a) I then and now think that I might be seeing things that aren't there and I want to look at it again while I'm actually awake and thinking properly. Nothing else had happened and I didn't really have anything else to say so I basically just said 'hi I exist' cuz I didn't have things I wanted to talk about yet. After thinking about it a bit more, I decided to poke at it obliquely to try to see whether or not I'm seeing things. I wasn't ignoring anything. I wanted (and want) to mull on it a bit more.

Question: have you looked at any of my other games here (specifically a scumgame), or just that newbie game?
Nope, just the one, so far. I will eventually get around to meta diving you, but I'm likely to be a lower profile this game than normally, due to a bunch of RL factors.

I've read a dunker game, (at least one, possibly more) but he's unaware of me AFAIK. I was in one of Flubb's first games on site. I tunneled the shit out of Wicked's towngame for like 3 games in a row back in 2015. ETL and I have a long and storied history that amounts to her being one of my best friends, despite the fact that we haven't talked in a while. If she said she needed help with something I'd get in the car and drive across the country tonight because I'd know it was that important.

Don't worry about ETL so much, there's a method to my madness and I'll have a solid read on her one way or another in a couple more pages.

What did you hope to gain from ?
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Post Post #188 (isolation #31) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:51 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 181, Not Known 15 wrote:Skitter had a really bad post, and then another bad post. Probably bad. Number 1 scumread so far.

Generally, Dunker's ISO is just horrible. Number 2.

Two in a million: Short not really useful posts, and a bad vote.

Fykus: One post, and not really helpful, promising something that did not happen so far.

I also don't like what Iron and UCV are saying about their activity. Additionally UCV had that selfvote, and Iron their bad first post.

Awoo had a bad start, later posts were better. Still, bad starts are worrying.

Jingle: A good portion of the posts looks good, but not everything.

ETL: The ETL/Two in a million fight is a bit scummy, but I haven't found anything else, and they have posted plenty.
Formatting wise, you want line breaks between your paragraphs/player divisions.

Bad =/= Scum, and you appear to be using them as synonyms. You should fix that.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #32) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:04 pm

Post by Jingle »

Why would you want to hunt for who the masons were, especially if I was unwilling to share that information right out?
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Post Post #251 (isolation #33) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:34 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 226, Dunkerdoodles wrote:tbf is probably the scummiest post from tiam so far
can you explain your thought behind 84?
Nah, it's def the skitters vote. But yeah, his ISO isn't particularly town oriented.

I don't think this is SvS, though. Scum, particularly newscum, don't often needle their partner like this. I'd put good money on SvT, but TvT or SvS seems unlikely.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to tell the thread a couple of things.

1. I'd like to hardclaim before the end of day so that I can explain what I believe my role to mean before I get shot. And let's be clear here, I'm pretty obviously getting shot at some point in the near future.

2. ETL is not faking her anger, yet.

3. When I make readslists, order matters.
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Post Post #252 (isolation #34) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:58 pm

Post by Jingle »

skitter30 L-2 Jingle, Awoo, Not Known 15, EspeciallyTheLies, TwoInAMillion
TwoInAMillion L-4 taiho, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitters
EspeciallyTheLies L-6 UC Voyager
UC Voyager L-6 Flubbernugget
Fykus L-6
skitter30

Not Voting --- Fykus, ironstove[/quote]

Looking at this, 4/5 of the skitter votes are actually pretty organic, but the last one is gross and the momentum from no where is worrying. The 2 wagon is 3/4, with the last one being null as opposed to scummy. I don't think both are scum, and the two wagon had considerably more resistance to it's growth than skitters (it took almost no effort to get to L-2 here).

ETL and Fykus wagons are vanity and unimportant, with the exception of the question of why they're still around at this point. Flubber will probably be voting elsewhere when he reads this post, so I'd like him to look at my math and pick the scummiest non Skitters/2000000 person and let me know whom it is and why.

Fy and tai need a little more thread presence.

The total collapse of the Jingle wagon is disheartening.
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Post Post #259 (isolation #35) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:02 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 258, TwoInAMillion wrote:I'm a town neighborizor.
I explicitly believe the neighborizor portion of this claim.
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Post Post #261 (isolation #36) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:05 am

Post by Jingle »

Spoiler: Not game related, but it needs to be said.
In post 198, UC Voyager wrote: sorry. as you might have figured out. i fixed my mistake. is said ESL originally, which was incorrect. i meant to say ETL
ESL is also acceptable, but for a different reason. :P
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Post Post #263 (isolation #37) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:06 am

Post by Jingle »

L-1

No hammers please.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #38) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:14 am

Post by Jingle »

:neutral:
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Post Post #267 (isolation #39) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:34 am

Post by Jingle »

skitter30 L-3 Jingle, Awoo, Not Known 15,
EspeciallyTheLies
, TwoInAMillion
TwoInAMillion L-2 taiho, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitters, Flubbs (ETL wants to be voting here.)
EspeciallyTheLies L-6 UC Voyager
UC Voyager L-6
Flubbernugget

Fykus L-6 skitter30
Not Voting --- Fykus, ironstove

Not that we really need this, I'm just updating for ruminations.

Tacit support of 2 wagon: Me (tentative), Awoo.

Determination, there is scum on the 2 wagon.

If 2 is scum, at least one of {awoo, flubb, ETL}, possibly more.

If skitters is scum, {awoo, tai, ETL} are very suspicious.

Fykus needs to say something of substance before day end.

Two's reaction doesn't seem especially premature, and it's weird that ETL thinks it does, especially without paying enough attention to see the flubbs vote putting him to L-2.

Need to devote more time to NK, Awoo, tai, UC, Flubbs, Fykus, Stove. That's more than half the playerlist, so not happy with lynching yet.

VOTE: Awoo

Time to shake the baby.
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Post Post #269 (isolation #40) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:50 am

Post by Jingle »

:roll:
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Post Post #270 (isolation #41) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:03 am

Post by Jingle »

ETL, I've spent like 30 minutes looking. Do you remember where thorface was? I can't find the picture.
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Post Post #272 (isolation #42) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:18 am

Post by Jingle »

Oooooh. Found it.

Spoiler:
Image
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Post Post #274 (isolation #43) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 am

Post by Jingle »

L-1 votes are pretty much universally fine with ample notification and no lolhammer trolls like Guyett or ika in the game. I'm unaware of any lolhammer trolls in this game.

I don't support anyone being the lynch at the moment.

I believe TIM when he says he's a neighborizer. I haven't had the chance to decide whether that means he's scum or town yet, or whether it would be worth it at this juncture to try to figure that out.

I DO believe there are things that must be done today that have not yet happened. I am deeply unsatisfied that I have two hard scumreads that are almost certainly not scum together and have literally 0 opposition to either of those lynches but all of the support I could want.
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Post Post #275 (isolation #44) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:30 am

Post by Jingle »

Why do you favor his lynch post claim, flubbs?
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Post Post #279 (isolation #45) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 276, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:With the neighborizer claim.. I'm 99% sure he's scum now. If he actually is a neighborizer, there's no way he's town - too powerful in the hands of town, but balancing in the hands of scum. Especially if what you say about masons is true - no way there's masons and a town neighborizer. I don't see that getting through review.
Will read rest of post shortly, but this bears poking.

Why is neighborizer, masons, role who knows that there are masons but is not himself a mason nor confirmable too powerful in the hands of town? Neighborizer is basically a 0 utility role. Masons are < cop. My role is weird, but not all that powerful balance wise. Absolutely none of that seems like an overpowered town and would in fact suggest an entirely vanilla scumteam to me.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #46) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:11 am

Post by Jingle »

Spoiler: ETL Wall
In post 276, EspeciallyTheLies wrote: IF 2iam is scum, my expected partners include you/awoo, so I find the whole "I was waiting for you" thing curious. I mean, why...? What exactly are you waiting for? Why do you need my approval to vote? Why would you wait so long to push ... anyone? The thing I am concerned about here is if TIAM is indeed scum, and you are his partner, you will try to hammer for cred, knowing already what he is. Doubly so if he flips goon and nothing more interesting.
Image
And the other thing here is if TIAM is scum, I don't believe skitter is. There's an argument for skitter. I'll admit that you have made good points here. I played a bit of devil's advocate in my head with this yesterday, but it's sound and makes sense. BUT TIAM IS SO MUCH SCUMMIER?! And in my mind, if that's the case, then all of these issues were more than likely presented by a town player (skitter), which makes me wonder - are any of these points worthwhile in the first place? I'm not criticizing your analysis or scum-hunting abilities, just the reality of it, if that makes sense.
Now that is exactly what I just said.
RE: NK15's catch up. IIIIIIIII LIKE IT. It's not pretty, and it's mostly wrong, but it shows a thought process. I'm labeling that town. Not as strong as flubber and dunker, but town nonetheless.
Premature, but viable.
First of all, no one tries to be a town leader (successfully), so if you think I'm the town leader, then I must be. Second, it's my fucking job to draw attention to
everyone
... it's called scumhunting. Third, if you're going to make a statement like "he has very ineffective scum hunting tactics", be prepared to explain 1) what tactics those are and 2) why they are ineffective.
No one? Not even Thor, or in the glory days, Lying Cat? I agree that he's full of shit here, btw, but you know damn well that there are people who can and will take the thread and make it theirs on purpose as either alignment.
The response wasn't simply at Jingle's singular statement, it was at the whole post, and his posts prior to that directed at me. His entire trajectory appeared to be an attempt on his part to give himself justification to "come around" to scumreading me - a scum strategy to make votes appear legitimate. If he's scum, he'd know he would need actual reasons to scumread me, and he'd know that I'd hound him for reasonable explanations, and he'd know that if they weren't satisfactory, I'd fight him to the noose. It looked to me like he was trying to fabricate this trajectory rather than asking me questions and approaching a scumread naturally.

You don't see it, but I do. I know him pretty well, have been playing mafia with him for years now. He's one of my favorite people, so it's more of reading his attitude towards me and comparing it to expectations based on history. That is not something I would expect you to pick up since you don't have the same history with either of us.
Image

How do I read you, ETL?

A hint. I don't know if I've ever come out and said ETL is scum. I do the opposite well. I can townread you on page 2 and be right on the money. The only other real ETL read I get is "I don't know for sure."
soooooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad......

I like skitter's inclination to analyze the votes on her own wagon. Newbscum don't really do that.
FTFY, but still valid.
In post 210, Dunkerdoodles wrote:skitter locktown too
locktown bloc: me, skitter, ironstove, flubber, etl, jingle

subject to change
agreed mostly, except maybe for jingle. i'm not so sure about him.
Psh. You know I'm town, you just don't want to admit it yet.
skitter's response to two is literally the best part of their in thread presence.
FTFY

Unfortunately, it could come from scum in survival mode so it's more null than anything, but I do WANT it to be town.
In post 242, Dunkerdoodles wrote:if you aren't nightkilled generally it means either your reads are really bad that game and you're pushing town or you aren't contributing as much as others.
Or Jingle's scum and getting cocky again. ;) Or that the nightkills were pretty much forced by PR interactions (Role madness or bad game design.)
In post 251, Jingle wrote:1. I'd like to hardclaim before the end of day so that I can explain what I believe my role to mean before I get shot. And let's be clear here, I'm pretty obviously getting shot at some point in the near future.
*SIGH*

If you are town,
you are being stupid.

I like tai, tai can be town. but she needs to get a move on.
See. These are the things, ETL. These things. Do them more.

And yeah, I'm being stupid. My problem with the gamestate is that my two preferred wagons are both close to lynch. And that makes me feel like people are sheeping me. And that makes me feel like I'm wrong and we're going to lose. This is my curse. This is my life.
Ok, all caught up. all that's left is to leave whatever ideas I can as I'm pretty sure I'm dying tonight.
Oh, so you know I'm town. :D

Updated:
town - flubber, dunker

town ish - skitter, NK15, tai

feels town, but are they? awoo, UCV

null b/c no content - fykus, ironstove

null b/c i dont know - wicked,

maybe scum? jingle

scum - TiaM
Wicked doesn't poke me right out the gate, or get in between us. He knows me as a combative asshole who is really good at getting his way and scum wicked has literally 0 reason to draw my attention to him that soon. I'm pretty sure he's also seen my propensity to tunnel someone over almost nothing for the entire game, like a dog with a bone.

Flubbs has had individual posts that make me want to townbin him, but nothing screams it to me, so I'd still like to hear the logic there.
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Post Post #285 (isolation #47) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:39 am

Post by Jingle »

No rush. I should be doing other things myself, tbh.
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Post Post #288 (isolation #48) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:24 pm

Post by Jingle »

Aight.

When I die, something happens. This thing is either good or bad (So scum doesn't know whether or not I need to die tonight), but will effect all non mafia PT's in the game. This thing is not protown enough for me to jump into the noose, nor is it antitown enough for me to try to hide it completely. It does lead me to the conclusion that there is at least one completely town oriented PT open right now. It also leads me to the conclusion that the capacity for multiple town PT's is real, though not necessarily that scum can't have PT's.

The masons bit isn't a confirmed thing in my role PM, btw, just something I think is more likely than not given my role. Like 80% chance.
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Post Post #289 (isolation #49) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:34 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 287, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
Jingle wrote:Oh, so you know I'm town.
what??
There's no way in hell scum Jingle shoots town ETL day 1 when she's literally the reason he's in the game in the first place.
Jangle wrote:Wicked doesn't poke me right out the gate, or get in between us. He knows me as a combative asshole who is really good at getting his way and scum wicked has literally 0 reason to draw my attention to him that soon. I'm pretty sure he's also seen my propensity to tunnel someone over almost nothing for the entire game, like a dog with a bone.
what is the conclusion here? i'm missing it
I'll come following you. wrote:Flubbs has had individual posts that make me want to townbin him, but nothing screams it to me, so I'd still like to hear the logic there.
do you not remember flubber scum??? this isn't it.
I do remember Flubscum. From two years ago. You know, when I had trouble reading flubber. This feels different, but there's also a 2 year gap to make me doubt that. Flubbs seems more... mature, I guess? But that could easily be playstyle.

Wicked is town. His interactions with me on page 1 are unnecessary and not something scumWicked risks.

DD is slightly less town, but still very town because he was the naked humpvote on a P1 wagon on someone who may well have been claiming masons out the gate. Newbscum ISN'T that ballsy. Flubbs might pull that, but DD wouldn't.
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Post Post #290 (isolation #50) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:54 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 287, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:dont claim unless you have to. don't be dumb
You're NOT MY ROBOT SUPERVISOR!

But no seriously. Making scum shoot me over anyone else out of paranoia is a great use of my role, and getting the probably all town PT information out early was useful. If there is no other PT shenanigans, my role makes 2 100% town. I seriously doubt this to be the case given play and crumbing, but I cannot for the life of me decide whether trying to figure that out today is a good enough use of my time. Further, my role means to me that further PT shenanigans doesn't make 2 outright scum, because *reasons*. There's a nonzero chance of Mafia Neighborizer, but it seems like a risky fakeclaim given everything in the thread.
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Post Post #293 (isolation #51) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by Jingle »

Not me. We both know that in a couple of days I'd stop posting in the neighborhood. You're usually a good bet, but again, if you get busy it's up in the air.

I'd go with someone who looks town and has a decent chance of reading 2 in the nightphase, but all of my strong townreads are annoyingly lurktastic (or maybe I'm just being spammy) so that's pretty meh. I def want him to hit town if he uses it, but it seems pretty unimportant. Definitely should claim his target in advance though, if we're letting it go to night.

Nah, but my first post was a pretty easy to see softclaim that could well have been a mason softclaim.
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Post Post #295 (isolation #52) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:02 pm

Post by Jingle »

Not a terrible choice, but I'd like to see 2's ideas/reasoning. More, I'd like to see new stances from the more than half the player list with insufficient content for a solid read. Which means fresh topics of discussion. 2 and skitters probably aren't scum together, which means there's two more scum. Do you disagree that awoo looks objectively terrible right now regardless of which of them is scum?
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Post Post #304 (isolation #53) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 300, Dunkerdoodles wrote:why aren't we just lynching him then?
Because
A. We have other things to worry about today.

B. As per my role town has some method of having a PT and if it's not not 2 that makes him town.

At the very least, I want to hear from the people who aren't me and ETL some more.
Flubbernugget wrote:We already established why my meta is different ftr
Which doesn't in itself mean you're town, but firms up the "I can't just throw you in the townbin because you don't feel like scumflubs" bit.

PEdit: Pretty much, with a little of there's a lot of lurking going on.
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Post Post #307 (isolation #54) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:06 pm

Post by Jingle »

I'm a little sad that no one has asked about my Awoo vote.

And yeah, I've addressed the possibility of two being bussed and which votes are worst on him.

PEdit:

Not Alignment Indicative.
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Post Post #309 (isolation #55) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:13 pm

Post by Jingle »

Because I think there's a good chance she's scum. Why didn't you?
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Post Post #311 (isolation #56) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:21 pm

Post by Jingle »

It's not that I don't want to lynch him. I very much do. It's that I don't want to lynch him right now. See post 304.
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Post Post #313 (isolation #57) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by Jingle »

Do you think we should avoid discussing other possible scum?
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Post Post #337 (isolation #58) » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:58 am

Post by Jingle »

Caught up, reading along, not weighing in.

These ARE stale talking points. There ARE things in the thread worth exploring that no one has mentioned.

That is all.
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Post Post #341 (isolation #59) » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:28 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 338, Flubbernugget wrote:Lynch two or explore them yourself

Imo the whole day is stale
To clarify, you're saying you're fine with your reads on {IS, ETL, Wicked, awoo, skitter, Fykus, Taiho, UC, me, DD, NK15}? All of them?

Okay, readslist. Go.

As it stands, even if we hit scum with the two lynch we don't have shit for information going into tomorrow other than vague misgivings about a hardbus being on the latter half of the wagon. As it stands, I'm missing players and I can't even tell who they are without checking the op. Whatever they have to say on the 2 or Skitter wagons is going to be stale repetitions of what has already been said. I can think of at least three people off of that list that deserve to have been pushed and only haven't because the 2 wagon found wings super early. That doesn't necessarily mean 2 is town, despite my paranoia, but it does mean that we've done fuckall with regard to about half of the player list, and I'd like to see attempts to remedy that situation. I'd also like to see this originate from not me, because I'm pretty sure everyone and their mother can agree that I'm so town it hurts at this point and I want to see people that are not me making waves, shaking things up and most importantly taking stances from which I can guess their alignments.
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Post Post #365 (isolation #60) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:54 pm

Post by Jingle »

Okay, fuck playing things close to the chest and potentially just letting this bullshit stagnate.


My major concern with lynching two today is that nothing he's done is 100% scum. There's some stuff that's pretty damning, but nothing I've seen that should be capable of leading to this state of surety in everyone's eyes. There's no what if town paranoia, just a smooth resignation to the lynch.

This is a day one that leads to me and ETL getting shot and the game stagnating into a cesspit of replacements and no one actually giving a fuck, and the two lynch isn't going to change that.
Awoo wrote:
Spoiler: 340, skitter
In post 340, skitter30 wrote:
Something else to note: I've seen posts saying that the skitter / TIAM wagons have near unanimous support. This is mostly true and observable for TIAM, but does it really hold true for skitter? It seems that a general apathy has developed towards her instead of a poking and prodding like we can see for TIAM.


* Maybe I am using the wrong term here, but he's making stuff up to make me look bad.
You might be. Correct options: misrepping, strawman arguments, possibly even tu quoquo, but not throwing shade. Throwing shade is more in the spectrum of saying anything done by player A is scummy, regardless of it whether it is in the hopes someone might agree and run with it. It's about quantity over quality. AFAICT you are saying that they're legitimately trying to lie about things that happened (Misrep) or misrepresent arguments/actions (Strawman). There's a slight chance you're arguing tu quoquo, in which they are attempting to shoot down your arguments by using the tried and true "No, you're scummy." defense.

Further, it's not about unanimous support, it's about a complete and utter lack of opposition. Even when someone outright claims to be scum, usually someone will disbelieve the claim. There's been pretty much no paranoia (apart from mine) about either of them. I can't recall a single legitimate townread of either of them, which is so far from normal that I can't even begin to be comfortable with it. I CAN, on the other hand, recall 2 people mentioning that they have meta about Two always being lynchbaity that was pretty firmly abandoned as soon as the wagon on him got any momentum at all (which, while circumstantial is pretty gross).

Awoo seems to be doing just about anything possible to get me to townread her (possibly my interpretation, but definitely the reason I'm voting for her) without taking much in the way of risks. Pretty much everything in her ISO is meh, and I definitely pick up a tone of "Dammit, I want this guy to townread me and I'm not sure how to do that" in her interactions with me. Not in itself a caught scum, but definitely questionable.

Anyway, I'm going to set aside some time for this tonight, do ISOs, and use my least favorite method of fighting an apathetic playerbase. Pointed questions targeted at individual players. Yay.
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Post Post #366 (isolation #61) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Post by Jingle »

Huh, broke the shit out of those tags. I snipped all the skitter bits, so that's just awoo.

Welcome to the game, Fykus. I hope to see content soon. :P
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Post Post #381 (isolation #62) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:19 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 379, Awoo wrote:I'm he by the way, but I forfeit my right to be called by that the moment I put on a female avatar.
Nah, I'm just really bad with pronouns. Call me out on it and I'll eventually remember (though it may take a few games.

RL took longer than expected, but you guys get probably 15-20 minutes. I'll see what magic I can work in that amount of time.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #63) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:43 pm

Post by Jingle »

Tai. Talk to me about Dunk. What is your overall read? What is the towniest thing he's done? The scummiest? What do you think of 61, 92, 108, 114, 191, 212, 226 in particular?

UC: Other than me, who is your strongest scumread atm? Do you still feel EtL is scum? If so, why? If not, who is?

EtL: Propose a scumteam involving 2 for me. Any scumteam.

Flubbs: Talk to me about awoo. Scum? Town? Buddying me? I'm nuts?

IS: You look like in your town games you get off your ass and scumhunt when there's actually content. Is there a particular reason you're not doing so atm?

Wicked: Do you have a particular reason for suspecting IS and 2 together? How are you feeling about gamestate and/or my paranoia wrt to the two lynch?

Fykus: I expect more from you, not in quality but in quantity, but your activity since you started actually playing is the exact type of thing I'm looking for. Is the IS bit policy or do you genuinely believe it to be scum. If the latter, why?

awoo: Tell me more about this wicked/2 theory and the why behind it. Also wicked by himself. Why is he scum?

I don't feel the need to point DD or skitter at anything. They both seem active enough for now without prompting.

Two: Who is scum? Is your IS vote policy or do you think he's scum? What's the worst vote on you and why? Of the wagon on you, who is most likely town?
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Post Post #385 (isolation #64) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Post by Jingle »

That's all for now, folks. I shall return on the morrow.
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Post Post #396 (isolation #65) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 392, taiho wrote:jingle #384 -...- don't have definite read on dd.
Townish because he seem to openly speak up his mind, being honest is town trait.
Scummish is that i don't think hes pushing tiam because he really scumread him. >.> Ik it sorta contradicts what i said in the 1st paragraph, but thats how i feel it going over dd's iso. I don't fully get his intentions and Is this suppossed to be reaction test of a sort.

dd's #61 idk if i agree here, liking the confident tone here; side note is i find these sort of posts hard to distinguish whether they are jokish or serious. -.-
#92 dd known tiams meta..
#108 this is being truth for pro-active players in general. I agree with the sentence in the concret case too.
#114 idk why somehow i like this post
#191 nothing to say here tbh
#212 this along with 92 and 114 leave the said impression 2nd paragraph above.
#226 I think that's rather pov thing. Tonal change being scummy is subjective. Is not possible to maintain the same tone is every game.
Specifically not a reaction test. More a "Dear god take some stances so I can try to claw my way inside of your head and figure out your alignment" test.

What conclusions do you draw from DD's 92? Does his knowledge of 2's meta as 'scummy even when town' strike you as odd? Particularly in juxtaposition with 2's statement that he's normally townread and the complete lack of any other defense of 2 from DD? Do you think DD is more or less likely to be scum if two flips scum? Town? Why?

What do you think was the point of 108? Why even make that post?

I pretty much agree with you over DD's push on 2 being policy (and I'd bet he'd outright agree), but is there a specific reason in your mind that that would make him scum over town?

Why do you think Dunk thinks (if he actually does) that 84 is scummy?
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Post Post #397 (isolation #66) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:46 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 384, Jingle wrote:UC: Other than me, who is your strongest townread atm? Do you still feel EtL is scum? If so, why? If not, who is?
Oh. FTFM
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Post Post #399 (isolation #67) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:54 am

Post by Jingle »

Sure, but the question is more about what it means that Dunk believes it than what it means that you disagree.

And the asking of the question is more about taiho's alignment than either of yours. :P
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Post Post #400 (isolation #68) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:55 am

Post by Jingle »

And now, I away!
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Post Post #448 (isolation #69) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:22 am

Post by Jingle »

I'm town. Lol.

We've been pretty stalled out with me wanting lurker slots to post more, 2 a hair's breadth from the noose, 2 slots other than yours which have done nothing much to be read on, and at least one more with subpar content. You're functionally replacing into a fresh slot (called it, btw), and there are a bunch of people I've questions of who have not yet responded.

We've had no significant motion or pushing since the point where Skitters and 2 were at L-2 at the same time. Other than me, we've had no serious wagons other than those two. I'm a basically universal townread.

I've hardclaimed that my death does something to or for all non-mafia-factional PT's (which I believe means multiple non mafia factional pts or something powerful like masons, friendly neighborizer or weak neighborizer in addition to some other PT based roles). 2 has claimed neighborizer, and I'm specifically not bringing up that that could be a partial claim which is the big impetus behind wanting to sort him tomorrow.

And again. I away!
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Post Post #482 (isolation #70) » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:33 pm

Post by Jingle »

I'm simultaneously happy and annoyed. Happy because I can stop wondering whether I'm going to die or not, and annoyed because I have to continue playing this game. For shame, scum team. For shame.
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Post Post #483 (isolation #71) » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:34 pm

Post by Jingle »

Insufficient information at this time. I see 4 possible reasons for the kill being wicked, and none of them are really worth discussing.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #72) » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:08 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 499, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:town {fykus,
dunkerdoodle
, wicked}

null-town {ucv, taiho, LUV}

null {jingle, ironstove}

null-scum {skitter}

scum {
flubber
, awoo}

UCV
- this is where I was at, with bolded being the strongest reads. still needed to ISO jingle, wicked, luv, awoo, finished that up this morning. you seem like you actually have an interest in getting engaged with this game and i want to help you do that if i can.

Largely, I agree with this. LUV is more null than that and I'm not sure on Flubbs and DD yet, (catchups are real real easy to fake and the other two would take quite a bit more to explain and it's rather fascinating to me those are her strongest reads,) but it's nice that ETL is on the same page as me now. Or close enough.

Points of order:

Awoo's hammer was objectively bad but not objectively scummy.

If Awoo's hammer was from scum, it is likely at least one of her teammates was on 2000000. Probably both.

I am also likely to be far less active this day phase than last because of several factors. I will still be posting daily and reading, but I may make only one short post in a given day.

See you tomorrow.
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Post Post #606 (isolation #73) » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Post by Jingle »

I’m explicitly normal.
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Post Post #607 (isolation #74) » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:29 pm

Post by Jingle »

Also, ETL, get your head out of your ass. Why does flubbs fakeclaim not a hard guilty with almost no pressure on him. He’s 90% town 10% insane. And in either case he lives at least one more dayphase
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Post Post #618 (isolation #75) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:30 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 613, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 577, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 576, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 574, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:skitter, flubber is absolutely, 100% confirmed scum right now.
not yet
he's making shit up. no actual town role with loyal modifier would behave this way if he had a true guilty.
This.

Flubber not taking into consideration that Dunk could be a commuter or a miller, has an ascetic modifier, or that he could’ve been role blocked is really bad.
I don’t know about recent meta changes, or at least not much, but from the height of me ETL era this is pretty much textbook claiming procedure for at least one explicitly normal role, so...
In post 609, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 607, Jingle wrote:Also, ETL, get your head out of your ass. Why does flubbs fakeclaim not a hard guilty with almost no pressure on him. He’s 90% town 10% insane. And in either case he lives at least one more dayphase
this post tells me that not only do you
know
i'm town, but that you are indeed flubs partner.
No, it tells you that you’re moonlogicing. Which is specifically not a towntell for you. More when I’m not actively supposed to not be on my phone.
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Post Post #625 (isolation #76) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:21 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 622, skitter30 wrote:I know, and I commented on it at that time.

Since you're apparently summoned by saying your name, and you've declined thus far to comment on the Flubber situation (you're clearly following the thread though), what do you think about Flubber/dunk/ETL?
Wait, UCV is beetlejuicing?

This bears investigation.

Furthermore, 619 is exactly how a sane person reacts to this. Note: Sane =/= town. Insane =/= scum.
In post 618, Jingle wrote:
In post 609, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 607, Jingle wrote:Also, ETL, get your head out of your ass. Why does flubbs fakeclaim not a hard guilty with almost no pressure on him. He’s 90% town 10% insane. And in either case he lives at least one more dayphase
this post tells me that not only do you
know
i'm town, but that you are indeed flubs partner.
No, it tells you that you’re moonlogicing. Which is specifically not a towntell for you. More when I’m not actively supposed to not be on my phone.
First:

You're looking for reasons to scumread Flubber instead of taking a step back and reevaluating his play based on his claim. Look at flubb's D1 through the PR lens:

Flubbs wasn't taking center stage. Far from it. He was making reads, but he was content to let the game drift along where it would. There was absolutely no paranoia about 2's role being stronger than claimed, and he really wanted the day to be over, which is completely in character for someone with a strong PR. He's textbook PR.

Second:

We leave flubber alive today. Night falls. There's three options:

1. Flubber is town with a result on DD, in which case scum shoot him (Yay, we lost a PR and lynch a scum: great trade), scum let him live (Yay, we get another result out of Flubbs), or a protective saves his life (Yay, we pretty much instantly win on clears).

2. Flubber is scum with a fake on DD, in which case scum don't shoot him but do shoot someone else. There are a few gambits scum could try, but all of them would probably blow up in their faces.

3. Flubber is town fakeclaiming, in which case I punch him in the face in the postgame (And scum probably still shoot him tonight).

None of those potential situations justify turbo lynching him over scumhunting today, even if we outright disregard the potential for there to be a lynch of a different scum player.
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Post Post #626 (isolation #77) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:40 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 613, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Flubber not taking into consideration that Dunk could be a commuter or a miller, has an ascetic modifier, or that he could’ve been role blocked is really bad.
:Thorface:



What the fuck even is this? This is 10x worse than ETL's reaction. This is reaching for a reason to disbelieve Flubber without even considering his claim.

Flubber: I have a result on DD.
DD: I think Flubber is a loyal cop.
Flubber: I'm not going to fullclaim.
ETL: This isn't how loyal town responds.
LUV: The fact that flubbs isn't even considering alternatives to the guilty is really bad.

First, both ETL and LUV have just jumped onto the explanation that Flubbs is a loyal cop and are discrediting his claim solely on that basis, WHEN HE DIDN'T EVEN BRING THAT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

DD's rolefishing is terribad. ETL jumping onto it is either scum or a bad case of confbiasing. LUV dropping a legitimate (if mediocre) line of questioning to pile on is the scummiest piece of shitposting in the thread.

Second, there are a plethora of roles that are both explicitly normal and have a reason for which there might be a false positive. Pouncing on one and then claiming Flubber is scum for not considering why it might be a false positive is presupposing information, which is decidedly not a town trait, especially from someone who was not even scumreading Flubbs prior to this AFAICT.

Third, LUV's argument is in itself a strawman. Flubber IS provably looking for cases why he would have a fake guilty. It's pretty much the cornerstone of the gambit he's running.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

And, furthermore, the correct response to this is not "Flubber I demand your fullclaim right now" but "Dunkerdoodles, why would anyone reasonably get a false positive investigation on you".

If DD fails to answer, I'll post a list of roles for which flubbs play is not only acceptable, but arguably optimal.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #78) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:51 am

Post by Jingle »

DD- His reaction to my question/Fullclaim should pretty much confirm his alignment one way or another after you bite the bullet. Him reacting oddly to the person with a result on him is also not impossible

ETL- At least she was strongly suspicious of you pre-D2 so this could just be a confbias / I don't want to lynch her unless I have to.

LUV- Literally no mention of you prior to this confbias. Further, he's being :thorface: in a way where he's not the primary face pushing the lynch. Say we lynch you, most of the blowback hits ETL and DD. LUV is comparitively blameless because he wasn't the original crusader, just sheeping a movement. Of all the players, he's the one in the best position to be pushing this angle as scum. And it is most certainly an angle scum would want to push.
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Post Post #633 (isolation #79) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:57 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 631, Dunkerdoodles wrote:really don't know, i'm not a miller/ascetic/commuter/anything like that though
Vanilla/PR

and in the latter case

Night action/Non Night Action

Go.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #80) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:58 am

Post by Jingle »

Actually, skip the first half.
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Post Post #637 (isolation #81) » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:03 pm

Post by Jingle »

Because he has far less reason to lie than you do?
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Post Post #657 (isolation #82) » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Jingle »

Okay, DD, to explain why you need to claim NA/No NA, I've got a hypothetical situation.

Say I'm a cop, and I claim that I investigated you and got a result. If I outright claim I'm a cop and I got a guilty on you, you say "Well, I'm a miller and that's a false positive." We don't believe you and lynch you and you flip Miller and then I get shot and we all cry because we just lost a piece of town power in exchange for lynching a town player. This is why standard operating procedure for millers is to claim D1.

On the other hand, say I simply say "I have a result on him", and you respond with I'm a miller, the claim is much more believable because you didn't know I was a cop. If for example I had been a gunsmith, I would say "That's some fucking bullshit and DD and is 100% scum." in response to the miller claim. If I was a tracker I would say "That's some fucking bullshit and DD is 100% scum." etc. If I actually was a cop, I would say "That would explain my guilty" and we'd sort you based off of play. There's a bunch of roles that DO NOT get false positives on millers, but do get false positives on other things. The point is that you have to claim the reason it's not a guilty before Flubbs claims why it is a guilty or the whole thing is pointless.

Similarly, at this point in the game, Flubb's alignment is irrelevant. We're in D2, and he wasn't even close to the chopping block when this whole thing started. If he's town, he's getting shot early and often. If he's scum, we can reevaluate in 2-3 days when he hasn't won the game for us and remains alive inexplicably. Sorting him is actually just a waste of my time, and both LUV and ETL should be able to have reached that conclusion.

In addition, he's already explained why he's not concerned with lynching you today, and I'm more than satisfied with that explanation. Flubber dying and flipping gives the entire town the result of his night action based on context. He doesn't need to push that he has a guilty on you because his flip (which is inevitable if he's a town PR) will do that for him. Compare that to AP's behavior in Reboot, ETL, and you can see why Flubbs is a town PR and not a scum fakeclaim.
taiho wrote:Flubb sorta denied being loyal in one of his posts though.
Speculation about Flubb's role is inherently antitown at this point.
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Post Post #666 (isolation #83) » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:16 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 659, Dunkerdoodles wrote:ok here's the thing
my role is confirmable. i know i can confirm myself as town and that flubber is lying. i don't want to/can't really confirm myself rn so that's why i'm not claiming.
will be back later
Cool. This is literally what I wanted from you. DD and Flubbs both full claim tomorrow.
In post 658, taiho wrote:Speculation? For real? lol
I meant #539, what is there to speculate about.
Any talk about what roles they say they have or posts where they may or may not confirm or deny anything about their roles helps scum narrow down information on what the roles may be. We want literally the opposite of that.

VOTE: LUV
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Post Post #722 (isolation #84) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:14 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 686, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:AND ANOTHER THING. D1 two claimed a pr. outright. but jingle didn't argue so hard to leave him alive did he? no. suddenly, we *have* to keep flubber alive when he won't even explain... ANYTHING? this is a HUGE contradiction to yesterday. why is anyone taking it at face value when there is someone TELLING YOU POINT BLANK HE IS LYING?

skitter that is a giant post and i'm mobile. i can't quote/edit it easily at the moment. give me bits and pieces one at a time or read my posts better.
:thorface:

Note, ETL, that I am a person who thinks neighborizers are literally useless.
In post 709, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Oooooh shit... flubber could still be scum wth jingle and that would explain jingles D1 posts a LOT.
Or... Jingle is obvtown, has figured out pretty much all of the subtext at this point, and with said subtext wants to lynch 0 of DD/Flubbs.
In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:Please stop looking for sexy gambits

You know from seeing how I play thats never something I would get involved in.
Pshh. I'd get you to play a sexy gambit if I wanted to hard enough. I'm the king of sexy gambits. This doesn't make any sense as a sexy gambit though.

As a side note, I'm much more interested in lynching IS now that I don't suspect him to be a mason.
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Post Post #724 (isolation #85) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:19 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 721, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:That's fine.

I'll watch town lose in MYLO/LYLO tomorrow because someone who has no idea what they're doing when it comes to reaction testing, decided to do so :)
First, there are 11 alive. For it to be MYLO tomorrow, there has to be a scum doublekill, 4 scum, or an absolutely garbage vig.

Second, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tracker

Go ahead and read suggested play and tell me again what was so inherently awful about Flubbs play here.

Also, ETL, if you doubt that flubbs is town STILL, then you should read the game you modded where I was a gunsmith again and realize Flubbs has played pretty much exactly like I did where that literally won the game for town. Down to the claiming a D2 soft guilty on town and then abandoning it because I decided it was probably a false positive.

:roll:

PEdit: So totally would.
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Post Post #725 (isolation #86) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:21 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 676, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:miller is not a fucking normal role
Not only is it normal whitelisted, I brought it up because DD had already claimed to be not miller. So... :P
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Post Post #734 (isolation #87) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:30 am

Post by Jingle »

So your advocacy is to ignore that you have a result completely? As a tracker, I shouldn't attempt to sort a possible guilty by being vague about my claim, but rather I should just play the day phase normally? That's stupid. Getting a guilty and lynching scum is literally the best case scenario for a Power Role N1. You strike me as a pretty experienced player, and the assertion that flubbs claiming a soft guilty is bad play or even suspicious is frankly insane. You're arguing a position because you've already taken the stance, not because you believe in it. And that makes you scum.
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Post Post #736 (isolation #88) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:34 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 729, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:but jingle i still don't get why you've been rallying flubbers banner all day? that makes no sense for supposedly independent players.
Do I need to find examples of my hard and fast policy of "Never lynch a claimed investigate with more than a day before LYLO, even if he's scummy as sin"? I would hard defend someone I had been tunneling for 3 day phases with a direct cc if they claimed cop and I knew we had two more dayphases til we could lose.
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Post Post #750 (isolation #89) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:55 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 737, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I can understand if he did those things are similar ones and then outed his result based on having sufficient reasons to not like how Dunk responded but he didn't.

You get me?
:shifty:

Flubbs claims results.

DD posts nothing that could change Flubb's mind.

Flubbs claims he doesn't want to out his role.

Through Friday at 3:30 AM, ETL's descent into paranoia.

LUV want's Flubb's results.

Like, DD had less than a day before LUV wanted the results. This does not jive with what he is now saying, that he'd be fine with Flubbs looking at the reactions of DD and basing his sharing of results off of that. It jives a hell of a lot more with "Oh, someone else is pressuring the claimed PR, I should get in on that." There was no time for flubber to interact and judge his

Flail Moar.
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Post Post #752 (isolation #90) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:56 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 749, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I can't tell you when exactly I noticed I had gotten things mixed up and realize he had claimed as a reaction test in order to sort Dunk but I did.
Friday morning, between 5:50 and 6:20, judging by your posts. Where DD had still had less than a day to react to the 'bad reaction test' and Flubbs was being actively pushed by ETL.
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Post Post #754 (isolation #91) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:59 am

Post by Jingle »

Then the crux of the matter remains at you thinking claiming a soft guilty and looking to the responses is something worth pushing flubber over. I can get personally holding the result to your chest and scumhunting independently. I believe it is inherently wrong, but I can dig it.

I can't reconcile "claiming soft results is scummy behavior" as coming from any kind of mindset of anyone who plays mafia.
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Post Post #755 (isolation #92) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:00 am

Post by Jingle »

752 was in response to 749.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #93) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:04 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 753, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Where does that say I'm fine with him looking into their reactions?
In post 737, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I can understand if he did those things are similar ones and then outed his result based on having sufficient reasons to not like how Dunk responded but he didn't.

You get me?
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Post Post #759 (isolation #94) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:05 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 757, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I have an issue with claiming yes but claiming the result isn't AI despite the wine in front of me it does create. Not being able to tell me how anyone was suppose to react to it is scummy in my opinion.
Demanding a list of the behaviors a reaction test might lead to and their meanings before the test is even over is scummy in my opinion.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #95) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:06 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 756, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:It's scummy behavior to not know what you were
exactly looking for with a reaction test
as well as being surprised people are reacting the way they're and the game is in the state that it's in because of it.

And if that's the case, this is a play style difference.
In post 735, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I didn't say to ignore it. I'm saying scum read a player for what he does in-game and not based on mechanics unless you specifically receive a result that says a player does not share the same alignment as you. Ask Dunk about what players have said and done, ask him about the later stages of 2Milli's wagon, ask him what he thinks Wicked was night killed, etc. Just don't come out and state you have a result, be vauge about it, and
be surprised everyone is not reacting like a robot.
Cogdis, much, btw?
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Post Post #762 (isolation #96) » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:07 am

Post by Jingle »

I'm checking out for now, because the spamposting is getting a little too much and I need to be writing a cypher program anyway. I'll check on yall in a while.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #97) » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:56 am

Post by Jingle »

Locktown Block:
Jingle
Dunkerdoodles
EspeciallyTheLies
Flubbernugget

Town:
skitter30

Needs some TLC for the Read:
Taiho
Fykus
ironstove

Scummy End of Null:
UC Voyager

Scum:
Awoo
Lil Uzi Vert

Mostly by gut at this point, and I'll admit that pretty much all of the non locktown roles need some amount of TLC, but we're getting pretty close to a solveable game state here. If anyone outside of my locktown is a PR they need to claim tomorrow, because I'm pretty sure that makes this actually solveable.

Skitter's town status is mostly due to her reactions to this day phase. She is aggressively attempting to figure things out, in a way that feels both aggressive and town without looking for a quicklynch or an angle. She's pretty much acted in the most town manner possible since the flubber soft, and I can clearly understand all of the thoughts that lead to her conclusions.

Tai is closest to Town out of the TLC reads, but there's just not enough there to preclude her being scum. She's flying under my radar mostly because I like just about everything she's posted in a vacuum, but she is flying under the radar.

I can't remember anything important about Fykus, which is a problem.

IS strikes me as scummy, but mostly in ways that could be playstyle. I'm pretty sure I want to policy lynch him, which is pretty meh.

UCV's beetlejuicing is very worrisome, and I need to do some in depth reading there. When I have the spare time (Read, at the very least not today or tomorrow) I'll do a meta dive and try to get a handle on their playstyle. Important questions: Is lurking AI, is Beetlejuicing AI, is engagement AI, is dissonance between engagement and activity AI.

*Note: UCV, my view on Replacements is that it's easy to just go "I'm not having any fun" and replace out of the game. Please don't do that. Instead look at what you can change to make it so that you are having fun. If you're having trouble getting into the game, ask for help. Someone in the game will be happy to talk to you about something, which will get you invested and help you stay in the game. Now, if you simply don't have the time to play or there's a severe personality clash (like I have with a few people on site (Most of whom have been banned!)), go ahead and replace out. If you're going to be available again soon, consider V/LA. If not, don't drag it out. The longer you do the more thread apathy will build while we wait for your replacement.

I guess, just make the decision of replacement ASAP.

Awoo is mostly a meta read. Check out: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73237 It's like, identical to her playstyle here. Fun note, I had read the game previously (xa ligha's in 2/5 of my RPG groups and 2/3 of the consistently active ones), so the meta there isn't particularly stale. Currently, there's not much to compare that to, so I'll admit to some doubt on the strength of the read, but the lack of any particularly town behavior here doesn't cast any doubt on the read either.

LUV: Everything in my head and gut is screaming to me that this is scum. But... he said the magic T word, and it's been stuck in my craw since. I *might* be tunneled here. This *might* be a playstyle read. Given the strength and number of my townreads, I'm still perfectly fine with lynching here, but as soon as I've got the spare time again, I owe him a full reset and reread to make sure I'm not sitting here with my head up my ass beating a horse to death. Still, I think I'm right and he's scum.

Any questions? Disagreements?
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Post Post #821 (isolation #98) » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:17 am

Post by Jingle »

Awoo is also by no means a townread for me. Depending on my productivity, I might get around to an elaboration there today.
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Post Post #828 (isolation #99) » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:20 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 817, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 814, Flubbernugget wrote:Don't let ucv in on the insider info
what is this supposed to mean?
Don't worry bout it. If you're town it literally doesn't matter.
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Post Post #829 (isolation #100) » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:08 pm

Post by Jingle »

Spoiler: Awoo quotes that sound pretty much exactly like counterparts in Newbie 1822
In post 49, Awoo wrote:Sorry for the delay, I've been running a lot of simulations and smartilligent statistical anal,ysis to try to formulate some interneural pre-reads and I'm pleased to announce that the next person to post is going to be confirmed town! Discuss.

VOTE: taiho <-- Good vote, not random
In post 57, Awoo wrote:My only regret was not adding more buzzwords :(
In post 102, Awoo wrote:General question, how often making a dumb move like self voting in RVS is an actual scumtell as opposed to a weird/noob playstyle tell?

PEDIT:
2million wrote:You're acting like an arrogant "veteran" who thinks they can push new people around and everyone will just sheep them. Trust me that will not be the case.
Close, but not quite a real point. ETL, your reasoning has been weak as hell so far on every vote you've made. What I've seen from you so far is just a string of easy to make votes that you can later point to as "aggressive townplay" as scum. What is your motivation for this? More importantly, if you are town, what have you learned from this chain of votes?

PEDIT: I cant post because everyone keeps posting, literally unplayable
In post 152, Awoo wrote:So we find three people in similar situations of low activity. You defend tai, waive nk15, and and call iron disgusting. Care to explain?
In post 184, Awoo wrote:I've actually never seen formatting like that. I'm impressed and repulsed.
In post 256, Awoo wrote:I think it's worth looking into that most of what people refer to as the speed on the skitter wagon came from sketchy slots like TIAM and Not known.
Get this: if TIAM was really looking to read skitter, he would have read and seen his response to what I said about fence sitting, then responded to that, if anything. This just appears as pushing the wagon for the sake of pushing the wagon instead of trying to formulate reads and sort.

Not to give skitter a clear, but this is reading SvT.


I'm not putting the effort into quoting Newbie 1822 because I'm largely ambivalent to lynching specifically here today, but I will describe specific behaviors. The entries into the game were functionally identical, which is something that many people sculpt over time to subvert meta reads, but is still worth noting given Awoo is newbish and HAS NOT established that pattern.

Further, in both games she tends towards asking questions over coming to conclusions. She's quick to jump onto people in 1822 for things that other people bring up. (See: her interaction with the skitter wagon given the specific context of me. Additionally: her weak ass hammer and the dance around the 2 wagon.)

Lump into that nothing that jumps out to me as town, and I'm supremely happy with an Awoo lynch. I could also wait on her though, because I foresee additional information in the not too distant future.
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Post Post #835 (isolation #101) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:27 am

Post by Jingle »

It's possible, but not likely. Hence the I'd like to talk about it more at a later date.

There are non meta issues with your play this game that compound the meta read. There are additional factors to consider at some later date. There is a large element of PoE to this. But, all in all, this seems like a safe bet to me.

Also, I'm more inclined to vote Fykus for 830 than IS for his awkward Flubbs push, tbh. Both show a willfull disregard for reading the game, but IS's comes across as more genuine. I think ignoring him and his 1v1 till he gets fed up and replaces out is a more worthwhile use of my time than policy lynching him at this point. If we stall out on the game after this most recent round of P-dodges, I am most certainly happy to throw my vote down on him just to get things moving again though.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #102) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:32 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 836, taiho wrote:sup i'm back, did i missed much? :3
I posted a wall about why a player I'm not voting is scummy, IS wants to 1v1 Flubber, which I'm pretty sure means we're gonna lynch IS today, UCV beetlejuices like a boss, LUV burned through all of the towncred anyone had for him with his interactions with ETL and Flubbs, I made a locktown block of most of the players, and decided that the 6 nontownreads I have all need to try harder, and like ten people proddodged or wen't V/LA because of midterms.

Who out of {Fykus, LUV, IS, UCV, Tai, Awoo} do you most want lynched and why? Who out of that group do you least want lynched and why, discounting yourself?

(Aimed at Tai, but I'd love to see answers from everyone.)
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Post Post #857 (isolation #103) » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:41 am

Post by Jingle »

And from that information, do you do you draw any beliefs or conclusions?
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Post Post #866 (isolation #104) » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Jingle »

Here, caught up, intentionally not weighing in to try to encourage other people to get off their asses and make pushes.

Toodles.
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Post Post #876 (isolation #105) » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:53 am

Post by Jingle »

Hm... We're almost out of time today. Taiho, LUV, UCV, none of the three of you are voting anyone. Why? Who are your scumreads?
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Post Post #903 (isolation #106) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:22 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 893, Transcend wrote:I read page 1

This is the lynch

VOTE: Jingle
Tell me more.
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Post Post #908 (isolation #107) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:06 pm

Post by Jingle »

I think they are ETL. They’re just also lurktastic as fuck.

Transcend is an incredibly good lynch, and I’d have no issues switching to is at this point.

UCV is at least trying, if in over her head. Taiho is due a prod any time now. The rest of the playerlist is various shades of readable.

I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.
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Post Post #911 (isolation #108) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:43 pm

Post by Jingle »

I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.
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Post Post #972 (isolation #109) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:10 am

Post by Jingle »

VOTE: ironstove

The doc claim is BS, btw, but it does mean we shouldn't lynch Transcend today.

Mass claim tomorrow.

Ironstove -> UCV -> Taiho -> Awoo -> Skitters ->DD -> Flubbs should be order.

On the trolling vs playstyle bit, I think that IS and transcend fit more into the former and LUV is just way too similar to RC. Not trolling, not bad persay, just fucking impossible for me to get a read on. Of course, it doesn't help that he was scum this game.
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Post Post #973 (isolation #110) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:27 am

Post by Jingle »

Unofficial VC wrote:New Dog Troll L-4 Jingle, Flubbernugget, ironstove, Dunkerdoodles, Skitter, ETL
ironstove L-4 EspeciallyTheLies, Awoo
skitter30 L-4 Fykus,
Flubbernugget L-5
Fykus L-5
Awoo L-5
Jingle L-5 Transcend
Not Voting --- Taiho, UC Voyager
Um... I think ETL hammered transcend.
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Post Post #975 (isolation #111) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Jingle »

Sure. But that's hardly consequential if you've been hammered, and if you hadn't needling you over bullshit is likely to get you to react with more verbosity. (I'm a dick because it makes people get emotional and emotional people are easier to read.) At this point, there's literally no point to me continuing to argue/not argue your troll status.

Similarly, arguing my own town status is immaterial atm. The only thing that isn't a waste of time is getting the rest of your reads out there.
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Post Post #1018 (isolation #112) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:31 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 1005, CommKnight wrote:For now I TR Jingle due to position on wagon and because I don't feel like watching town mislynch him again. (I was in another game with his alt where town stupidly lynched myself and another when the plan I had suggested D1 would've nabbed us a scum and I think he was one of the slots that would've been cleared for 100% town as well). I was in dead chat yelling at town for being morons when they let RC control that shit.

But I can see the rest of the wagon as being possible scum and I find the mason claim very interesting. There's more than likely at least 3 scum and now with 1 scum dead and a flipped PT Cop, it's the perfect time to fake claim a PT with your buddy as "masons". Any thoughts on that one? It's possible they really are masons, but I'm skeptical about how quick the claim was after that particular role flip and what seems to be a "Hey buddy, want to claim mason with me" now that mafia day chat would be down (encryptor killed).
Hey, so... I was shot in that game, not mislynched, FTR. Also me, ETL, and DD are basically conftown at this point, regardless of the Transcend wagon. If there remains paranoia about them, I'm guessing they have daychat through my role and the flipped neighborizer so I'd be happy to confirm any info ETL wants to pass through DD as something ETL would know about me/say. I'm trying to wrap my head around whether it's likely or unlikely Skitters would be careless enough to miscount votes on a scumbuddy (I'm leaning no.) If they wouldn't, then that's pretty much conftown because scum doesn't facilitate accidental hammers of their partners.

This leaves: {IS, UCV, Fykus, CK, Taiho} for two scum.

I agree with skitters reasoning for UCV town.

I'm reluctant to lynch CK first because I know he can be useful.

IS might be town? I dunno. He was a counterwagon to Transcend, but I'm pretty sure all of the people who pushed both are conftown at this point, so that probably doesn't mean much. I'll go over the interactions there and try to get a feel for it.

Pretty comfortable with a Fykus lynch here, barring any jarring realizations. I'm not gonna vote until our replacements have a chance to make waves though.
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Post Post #1023 (isolation #113) » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:02 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 972, Jingle wrote:Mass claim tomorrow.

Ironstove -> UCV -> Taiho -> Awoo -> Skitters ->DD -> Flubbs
Order isn’t as important, but this is still necessary.
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Post Post #1039 (isolation #114) » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:57 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 1038, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1035, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 1031, skitter30 wrote:our two posts in conjunction with Fykus' 979 makes me feel like I'm the designated mislynch
not on my watch.
Oh, I'm not really worried about getting lynched; I'm pretty sure I'm close to unlynchable in the current gamestate. I don't think scum know that though lol.

I also don't think I'm a super-high priority kill given the current claims and gamestate, which is why I'm worried about all the pl-worthy slots cuz I'm pretty sure I'm going to be around long enough to actually have to sift through them.
I promise that if I'm involved in your lynch it will be in a 3P LYLO and some really weird shit will have happened.

Order on the rest of massclaim doesn't matter. If you have not yet claimed, please do so in your next post. ETL, you don't gotta.
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #115) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:35 pm

Post by Jingle »

As the enabler I give you permission to release the PTs. :P

Also, does this mean I should stop PMing you to have the scumteam shoot me?
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Post Post #1078 (isolation #116) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by Jingle »

Holy shit, that mod thread. <3 all y'all, particularly mastina. And yeah, totes called the setup. My push for massclaim was because there was no way town had anymore power (setup was super elegant with the roles that existed) and I wanted to lynch whatever claims dropped out of the trees. I feel like you all overestimated my surety on reads, and mastina's post 5 is flattering, if largely undeserved imo.

Super happy that Transcend was scum and not a troll, and I'd like to apologize for needling him. (It WAS fun though.)

ETL, you officially picked a fun game for me to play.

Also, dear god, my reads were accurate? What the hell is the world coming to when Jingle is RIGHT?
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Post Post #1079 (isolation #117) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:57 pm

Post by Jingle »

Eh. Traitor is a godfather for the cop, so it balances to slight scum utility if he's around to manipulate town.

Biggest issue with the game was the lack of activity, but :shrugs:.
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Post Post #1081 (isolation #118) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by Jingle »

On another, completely unrelated note, I'm taking a break from playing games because I'm unexpectedly busy, but I'm up in the micro queue if anyone wants to play a game where Jingle is involved. :P
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Post Post #1083 (isolation #119) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 1075, jjh927 wrote:mhsmith0, mastina
And... The elegance and symmetry not to mention the fact the setup was so easy for me to guess suddenly makes sense.

No offense jj, just that this is exactly the kind of weird setup that makes perfect sense in hindsight I expect from them.
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Post Post #1086 (isolation #120) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 175, ironstove wrote:UC Voyager easy town read. You can mark myself and UC off as town for the rest of this game.
This post was why it took me so long to figure out that ETL was a mason, btw. I thought IS had crumbed and was too busy patting myself on the back for catching it.
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Post Post #1089 (isolation #121) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:12 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 1084, skitter30 wrote:I was low-key suspecting that there might be some PT shenanigans from the OP; I've noticed that games with daytalk for scum tend to explicitly state it, and your OP didn't specify. Jingle's soft amplified that suspicion, and I was pretty sure we had some sort of PT theme going on by Two's flip. I didn't put together masons + PT cop until after Flubber's result, but at that point, I was pretty sure that there probably wasn't any more town PRs. There almost for sure weren't a second source of night kills, which is why I called BS on the doc and PGO claims.
That's normal. By the Normal Rules, if scum has daytalk it's gotta be an encryptor or public in the rules. If nothing is said, you can assume no daytalk. Now, there are people on site (like me) who put daytalk in basically every game and you only have to announce it in Normal games.
jjh927 wrote:The main changes made in review were the addition of a traitor and a VT, and the buffing of a mafia goon to the even night roleblocker, and I suggested the traitor/vt addition when the 9/2 setup was deemed townsided.

The heavy communication theme that meshed with the flavour was generally me, not to take away from how great my reviewers were
Choice in reviewers also tells me quite a bit about the mod :P. Either way, I loved the style.
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Post Post #1100 (isolation #122) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:36 pm

Post by Jingle »

Pagetop!
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Post Post #1135 (isolation #123) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:38 am

Post by Jingle »

The win really only shows that townblocking is real and can destroy games. Like, my DD read had almost nothing to do with the masons, I would have gotten there on ETL pretty damn quick, Flubbs is good enough to shout down his own lynch long enough for me to read him, and Wicked was a hard and fast townread from like P1.

Add skitters towntelling hard (despite my paranoia there) and it was gonna be an uphill battle for scum even if it were 10:3 mountainous.

As far as power role interactions, the only reason I was even close to town by role was cause I outed D1.
2 GOT LYNCHED D1. So it wasn't at all unreasonable for:

Lynch PR D1
Shoot PR N1
Lynch VT
Shoot PR
Lynch VT
Shoot VT
LYLO.

Which is standard for 13p.

Basically, setup was 2 masons and a cop vs 2 goons and a traitor with 4 millers and the traitor was investigative immune. That's... Not town sided. It's pretty easily balanced. And the masons aren't even inherently unlynchable. If they make it to LYLO you can paranoia argue a lynch on one of them in certain situations.

Not to say that your play or transcend's was bad here, CK. You replaced in after you were pretty much fucked. But that had more to do with the only people who were active early all being town and correctly recognizing each other as such than any power role interactions. Even if Tai had been full goon, there would likely have been the same result, just due to PoE based on town being really towny.
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Post Post #1138 (isolation #124) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:41 pm

Post by Jingle »

So... What you're telling me is that if you'd have told scum to shoot me like I told you to this would have gone on far longer.

:P

Clearly, you should always shoot Jingle.
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Post Post #1140 (isolation #125) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:55 pm

Post by Jingle »

HAHAHAHA! I DIDN'T GET KILLED BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT I WAS THE TRAITOR!

THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHA!
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Post Post #1142 (isolation #126) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:05 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 125, Jingle wrote:get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched",
In post 910, Transcend wrote:
In post 908, Jingle wrote:I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.
Lol but scum don't get night killed
In post 911, Jingle wrote:I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.
In post 920, Transcend wrote:unless this dude is ic or something there's no reason to be dick riding him because every single post he's made is a mafia claim
Holy fuck. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Transcend was right, I claimed scum to the scumteam twice, and in a way that was only obvious to them.
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Post Post #1146 (isolation #127) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:34 pm

Post by Jingle »

I can't even blame scum for not shooting me because CLEARLY I was the traitor. Transcend was bussing, and I should have just rolled over and let it happen for the towncred it got him from his POV.

This was entirely accidental, but hilarious.
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Post Post #1152 (isolation #128) » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:24 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 1150, CommKnight wrote:Like I don't understand what is so complicated to understand that part of the imbalance here.
The difference is in the fact that you're arguing that the setup was unbalanced. It wasn't. The reason you lost was that you had already lost when you replaced in. Awoo's hammer, my meta read, and an overwhelming townblock that primarily came from Town correctly reading each other's intentions put you into a situation that was unwinnable. It happens. The PR interactions really didn't even matter in this particular game. It's not your fault. It's not jj's fault. It's not even really your previous scumpartner's faults. Saying it was because the game was imbalanced though is insulting to the people who played the game, the mod, AND the reviewers.

Objectively speaking, I don't think there was a possible way to replace in and turn that game around. You MIGHT have been able to live a couple more days, but even then... Not likely, tbh. But that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means you got screwed by replacing into a doomed slot. I'm sorry it happened to you, and it sucks that it did, but blaming others isn't going to do you any favors. Accept it, and move on.

And, btw, thank you for replacing into a doomed slot. Without you this could have drug on and turned into a cesspit. Your replace made the game vastly more fun and playable, despite the fact that it ended so soon after you joined. :]
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Post Post #1162 (isolation #129) » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 1160, mhsmith0 wrote:This would be pretty brutal as an open. Five claimable and confirmable town PRs is a gimme win for town. Well, I suppose some towns might lose it anyway, but it'd take a lot of town dysfunction to blow 10/3 with 5 effective ICs.
Anything more than 3 PRs in an open with 13P is probably way too townsided, tbh.
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Post Post #1179 (isolation #130) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:17 pm

Post by Jingle »

Remember that time that Jiffy got shot by his scumpartner while he was V/LA?

Good times. Good times.
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