Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame


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Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

Vote: Jingle


Who are you scum with, then?
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Post Post #16 (isolation #1) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 12, Jingle wrote:Who am I not scum with? Also, hi wicked and flubber. It's been hella fortnights.
Hey Jingle :)

And I'll be trying to figure that out. How does it feel to
already
be at L-3? What do you have to say for yourself?
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Post Post #42 (isolation #2) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:31 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 33, Jingle wrote:Wicked would be 1000% town if this was two years ago, btw.
In post 35, Jingle wrote:Personal relationship between the two of us. Strength of the read depends on how well he remembers me more than any change on his part.
Huh... If this was two years ago, I don't understand how you could feel that confident. Have you seen me as scum before?
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Post Post #44 (isolation #3) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:38 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 41, TwoInAMillion wrote:I'm not a fan of voting someone without a good reason.

VOTE: Taiho
Why not?
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Post Post #47 (isolation #4) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:49 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 45, TwoInAMillion wrote:You don't think reasoning is important in a mafia game?
I do. But I want to know why it bothers you that taiho didn't give a reason.
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Post Post #104 (isolation #5) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:21 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 51, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:hi flubber!! hi wicked!! i've missed this game.
Hey ETL! So glad to (finally) be playing with you again. :D
ETL wrote:wicked, what do you think on two-ish pages?
Eh. Not a lot for the first three pages. I kind of liked Dunkerdoodles saying "everyone on this page is town". I think UC's entrance felt kind of townish to me too, if anything - felt slightly relaxed/fearless. I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
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Post Post #118 (isolation #6) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:42 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 86, TwoInAMillion wrote:
In post 83, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 80, TwoInAMillion wrote:
In post 79, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 77, TwoInAMillion wrote:
In post 76, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:for the record, i don't remember old mastin. and i didn't get "mastin" out of your posts. so i'm not really geling with your logic. no one else had trouble jumping in except for them two awoo and uvc.

p: is this kid really trying to school me on mafia? :lol:
appeal to authority.
an appeal to authority would be if i tried to convince you i was right about something "because i'm better at this than you." perhaps you should look at the definition of appeal to authority.
That's what you're basically trying to do is to cast doubt on my ability to vote/argue/find scum based on my ms age, thus hoping people will take your side in the future.
nope. just annoyed that you tried to correct me on something that you're completely wrong about. it doesn't matter whether you said it was because he didn't have a reason. i tried to start a discussion with you about that and instead you went straight to being an irritating arrogant newbie.
That's because your refusal to wagon a bad vote made me scum read you.
You're acting like an arrogant "veteran" who thinks they can push new people around and everyone will just sheep them. Trust me that will not be the case.
I don't understand this. This is the first mention of you scum reading ETL. Can you explain the bold?
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Post Post #121 (isolation #7) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:47 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 26, Flubbernugget wrote:Jingle I think I disagree with you on wicked

VOTE: Wicked
In post 91, Flubbernugget wrote:Wicked was a new rvs vote.
???
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Post Post #123 (isolation #8) » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

It didn't sound at all random... By disagreeing with Jingle town reading me, that seems to imply you had some reason for thinking I might be scum.
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Post Post #134 (isolation #9) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:08 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

Back.
In post 110, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:maybe hats what he was saying was mastin-inspired... ? i don't know. i've never been great at reading jingle so i'll let him prove it elsewise i guess. i'm not feeling awesome about him but i don't want to go down that road just yet. i'd like to compare notes with the two of you until something doesn't click and go from there while sorting the people i don't know actively.
It bugs me when mastin does this too. :lol: The last (and only) time someone was super confident in my alignment on page 2, it was mastin so I guess you have a point there, though.

I'm starting to townread you. Your apology in 113 seemed genuine. I also felt good about your posts in your exchange with Two. My only reservation is the idea that your exchange with Two could be scum v scum theater. Either way, you might be right about your Two vote and I need to look at him more closely.
In post 125, Jingle wrote:
In post 104, Wickedestjr wrote:Eh. Not a lot for the first three pages. I kind of liked Dunkerdoodles saying "everyone on this page is town". I think UC's entrance felt kind of townish to me too, if anything - felt slightly relaxed/fearless. I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
Could have? Yeah, mosdef. Would have? Not if you remember who I am and what I'm like.
I hope that this is another topic you will be explaining a few days from now?
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Post Post #135 (isolation #10) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:16 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 117, skitter30 wrote:
In post 104, Wickedestjr wrote:I kept my vote on Jingle for a reason - I don't understand his 1000% confidence comment that he made earlier - especially when I feel like I could have easily made those posts as scum. I feel good about everything else I've seen from him, but want him to explain that still. Reading the last page, more then.
This is also kinda ick? You like what you're seeing from him besides for the fact that he thinks he knows your meta? I feel like this is a weird thing to vote someone for, and to *deliberately* keep your vote on someone for, especially when there are sketchier people around and you like what you see from that person otherwise.
I didn't vote him for the 1000% confidence comment. I voted him before that happened. I disagree when you say there were sketchier people around. When I made that post, Jingle's comment was the only post that interested me - and there wasn't anything else that had bothered me enough for a new vote.
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Post Post #136 (isolation #11) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:29 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 86, TwoInAMillion wrote:That's because your refusal to wagon a bad vote made me scum read you.
In post 119, TwoInAMillion wrote:Why do you think I was questioning his logic? Because I was town reading him?
*her

I think I understand what you were saying in that post. You are scum reading ETL for not joining the taiho wagon? Correct? That seems to be the implication in post 86.

Also, I disagree with your comment here. First, just because you're questioning someone doesn't mean you're suspicious of them. I hope you're not making that assumption about anyone else's posting. Second, you actually only asked ETL one question and it was about the tone differences. So why is her "refusal to wagon a bad vote" making you suspect her?

Something doesn't feel right here.
Unvote. Vote: TwoInAMillion
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Post Post #140 (isolation #12) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:17 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 138, Flubbernugget wrote:You gave etl a town read based off a self meta post ([p]113[/p]).
I wouldn't say it's groundbreaking evidence, but why can't I town read a self meta post?
Flubbernugget wrote:I also don't think weaker players should be on the table for playing scum theater.
I've seen people bus with less experience than him. Disagree with you calling him too weak for that. And as I said before, I think it's more likely that ETL is town even though that's a thought that entered my mind.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #13) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:23 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

Mod:
I voted TwoInAMillion.
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Post Post #158 (isolation #14) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:08 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 141, Flubbernugget wrote:1) You can dismiss literally anything as "that's just how I play"
2) self meta is invalidated by the player being aware of it
3) im sure there's another point that's been rehashed to death that I'm missing

Your particular town read also has the grossness that etl is describing an activity tell, all of which are bad tells.
I think there might be a misunderstanding here, because my slight town read of that post isn't because she's self-meta'ing. It's just because she made the decision to apologize.

Also, I disagree about activity tells, but I feel like that's also a different topic.
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Post Post #159 (isolation #15) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:13 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 157, jjh927 wrote:
In post 156, Wickedestjr wrote:
Mod:
I voted TwoInAMillion.

My bad, missed the vote. Votecount edited.

I'm considerably more likely to see votes if you give them a new line.
Got it! :wink:
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Post Post #169 (isolation #16) » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:39 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

You may have signed up for too many games...
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Post Post #306 (isolation #17) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

I'm here. Almost caught up. Posting soon before sleep.

Btw, what does "NAI" mean? I hadn't seen it before this game, can't figure it out now and it's driving me crazy lol.
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Post Post #314 (isolation #18) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

TwoInAMillion
, how were you expecting people to react to your claim? And how powerful do you think a town neighborizer is?
In post 276, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:So,
UCV
, what tactics am I using and why are they ineffective? Do enlighten me, oh wise one.

Actually, nevermind, IDGAF. You're probably town. Bad town, but whatever. Keep on doing you.
:lol:
In post 307, Jingle wrote:Not Alignment Indicative.
Ohhhhh thanks

Caught up. Thoughts coming up
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Post Post #316 (isolation #19) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:10 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

Okay I want to talk about Two, skitter, Jingle, and ironstove.

Two-
He is my strongest scum read at this point mostly because of the posts I commented on in . But I also disliked his votes for taiho and skitter. He seemed to put a weird amount of stock in his taiho vote on page 2 considering he 'scum read' ETL a few pages later but didn't change his vote to her. The 'scum read' on ETL doesn't seem to resemble a natural thought process either. And the skitter vote just feels too effortless; he engages with skitter a little bit, but only after she calls him out on his vote for her.

skitter-
There are some weird signs (her post 27, her inconsistent read on Two, her town reading the first two votes on her own wagon), but I'm not sure that any of these are scum tells. Gun to my head, I would say that she is town but that is in large part due to her interactions with Two. I don't think they are scum together.

Jingle-
I'm close to having a strong town read on him. His read on me makes sense now that he is explained it in more detail - I think his point would carry more weight if I had poked him a few pages later in the game - but the thought process makes sense. The one thing giving me pause is actually his role-hinting just because I don't see what he's hinting at, even after looking at the Normal wiki page. But I don't need to know right now - he's not a person of lynch interest for me.

ironstove-
I am suspicious of him. I spent about 15-20 minutes looking through some of his games yesterday and from that admittedly brief sample he seems to be more engaged in the game as town. I get the impression that he prefers playing town. Not seeing any genuine interest here.


Scum team could be something like TwoInAMillion, ironstove, and one of the more quiet players like taiho.
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Post Post #317 (isolation #20) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 315, TwoInAMillion wrote:People are scumreading me poorly so I think people are overreacting to me in general. I can prove I am a neighborizor. There is of course no way I can prove I am town aside from being investigated so I don't think I deserve to be lynched. My initial push was bad and so was skittles and dunks.
Somehow this doesn't answer either of the two questions that I asked you. :neutral:
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Post Post #342 (isolation #21) » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 318, TwoInAMillion wrote:Then tell me what I am not answering specifically
I asked you how you expected people to react to your neighborizer claim and you responded by talking about how people were treating you
'in general'
. I asked you how powerful you believe a town neighborizer is which you also didn't seem to answer. :neutral:
In post 320, TwoInAMillion wrote:The only reason I would die is to be nightkilled. Lynching me would be a very bad play.
In post 322, TwoInAMillion wrote:Because I am town and deserve to show that I am town through my play. Like I said the pushes on me are poorly thought out.
Your reason for calling yourself a bad lynch could be applied to anyone. If you're town, show me that my push on you is poorly thought out.
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Post Post #343 (isolation #22) » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 328, skitter30 wrote:I also don't see why townreading the first two votes on my own wagon is a weird thing? You can be misreading me and still be town. Like, having a wrong read doesn't make someone scum. Just because the vote is on me doesn't mean I have to dislike the vote or scumread the person making it.
I completely agree with you. The only reason I called this weird is because I feel like, as town, most players (myself included sometimes) are slightly more inclined to suspect their attackers. So I was remarking that it's rare to see a town-aligned player town read their first two voters - from my experience at least. But if you are scum and Jingle/awoo are both town, then it would make more sense for you to town read them because you'd know that they are town. As I said before, this could easily just be your play style, though. I need to check your town meta at some point.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #23) » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

Not Known 15, I made you an avatar:

Image

Please use it :)
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Post Post #354 (isolation #24) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:01 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 345, TwoInAMillion wrote:
In post 342, Wickedestjr wrote:
In post 318, TwoInAMillion wrote:Then tell me what I am not answering specifically
I asked you how you expected people to react to your neighborizer claim and you responded by talking about how people were treating you
'in general'
. I asked you how powerful you believe a town neighborizer is which you also didn't seem to answer. :neutral:
In post 320, TwoInAMillion wrote:The only reason I would die is to be nightkilled. Lynching me would be a very bad play.
In post 322, TwoInAMillion wrote:Because I am town and deserve to show that I am town through my play. Like I said the pushes on me are poorly thought out.
Your reason for calling yourself a bad lynch could be applied to anyone.
If you're town, show me that my push on you is poorly thought out.
I'm not going to microanalyze how every player will react to my claim.

A town neighborizor is probably below average in power.
I wasn't asking you to. I was curious what you thought the general response would be.

So you are scum or
very disengaged town
.
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Post Post #356 (isolation #25) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:31 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

Well you're definitely not the least engaged player here. But you've put literally zero effort into defending yourself against
my
vote and that is why I think you're very disengaged if you're actually town. I described my reasons and questioned you in 136 and 316.

And my vote is in large part based on your actions, so I don't feel like I'm misrepresenting you.
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Post Post #358 (isolation #26) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:01 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 357, TwoInAMillion wrote:Whatever. I'm not going to place any
more
effort into defending myself.
FTFY

Okay good talk.
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Post Post #370 (isolation #27) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:26 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

I think Awoo is town. Don't agree with his taiho thoughts, but I see where he's coming from. In general, it feels like he's genuinely trying to figure things out.
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Post Post #393 (isolation #28) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:54 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

In post 384, Jingle wrote:Wicked: Do you have a particular reason for suspecting IS and 2 together?
Eh, not really. I think they are independently pretty scummy. It is interesting that Two voted for UC instead of IS though considering IS-lynch has more support. That makes me feel slightly better about Two/ironstove.
Jingle wrote:How are you feeling about gamestate?
In general, I'm pretty satisfied. My top scum read has the most votes. If he's a mis-lynch, I agree with you that his role has little value anyway. I will say that I'm actually considering switching my vote to ironstove, though.

I also agree that it's an issue that four people {taiho, NK15, IS, UC} have basically been non-entities this game. But I'm not worried about that right now.
Jingle wrote:How are you feeling about my paranoia wrt to the two lynch?
I would say I have slight reservations about the Two bandwagon, but not for the same reasons as you.

I can't remember ever feeling 100% sure that a particular player was scum on day 1, so I would disagree with that part of your paranoia. "There's some stuff that's pretty damning" is usually the best I ever feel on day 1 and that's how I'm currently feeling. I'm thinking you are a more confident player than I am, so "100%" and "There's some stuff that's pretty damning" might have different meanings for me, though. I don't think Two's bandwagon shows a state of surety but rather a lack of resistance. Normally that's a slight concern for me, but not so much this time.

My reservations about his bandwagon;
1. At one point, he said that he was in a bad mood. If that is true, then it might partially explain why he's felt so disengaged this game. But at the same time I feel like I've been pretty fair with him and he's absolutely not meeting me halfway. Scum can be in a bad mood too.
2. His vote for UC surprised me. I'm not sure how he could expect that vote to lead to anything. He was already voting the prime competitor to his lynch.
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Post Post #407 (isolation #29) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:35 am

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Mod: I'm V/LA Friday through Sunday. Will be limited to phone posting.
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Post Post #435 (isolation #30) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:17 am

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Two, why do you think UC is scummier than ironstove?
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Post Post #436 (isolation #31) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:28 am

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In post 426, Awoo wrote: was the first post that individually got my attention, because it just feels really safe and easy -- all his scumreads are lurkers or TIAM and I don't like that.
Fair point. Trust me, this bothers me too, it means I could be getting played by one or two active scum. I've just been getting good vibes from almost all the more active players, except for Two.
Awoo wrote:Wicked: do you still think this way? Especially considering in you say you're not concerned about 2 thirds of your previously proposed scumteam. If not, who is scum now? If so, why do your other scumreads not concern you?
You're missing the context for that 'not concerned' comment. That was in response to Jingle's prediction of the game, "stagnating into a cesspit of replacements and no one actually giving a fuck". I was saying I wasn't concerned about the inactivity and part of the reason was because I thought there might be one or two scum in the inactive category. It's only a potential issue if they're all town.
Awoo wrote:I really want to know at least one of the alignments of these two, because the whole interaction from 342 to 358 reads to me a bit like 342 "OK, here is the scheduled time to start bussing" -> 358 "OK, thanks for the towncred." In other words it feels a bit {fake? forced? scripted? orchestrated?}. I'm starting to get the feeling my read on wicked is really going to swing based on who flips what.
I think you might be taking this exchange a little bit out of context too. "Ok, here is the scheduled time to start bussing" was actually the third or fourth time that I'd tried getting Two to explain himself. The "Ok, thanks for the towncred" was me finally realizing that he wasn't ever going to meet me halfway. I've determined that he's either or scum or lazy town (that I probably won't be signing up to play with again after this).
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Post Post #442 (isolation #32) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:47 am

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Welcome Lil Uzi Vert! Thanks for replacing in :)
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Post Post #485 (isolation #33) » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:43 pm

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And so my time has ended now.
'Twas a good life, but now I rest.
Don't worry, for I am in peace.
Avenge my death and lynch those scum!


:dead:
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Post Post #1102 (isolation #34) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm

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Wow I can't ever remember playing in a game that went this quickly! :P Great job town.

And thanks again for the game jj! :D This was definitely a creative/memorable setup; I wish I could have stuck around longer to fully enjoy it.

Looking forward to seeing those PTs too.
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Post Post #1159 (isolation #35) » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 am

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That's a good point. This could be an awesome open setup, but it would have to be adjusted a little bit because the neighborizer would know to never neighborize people.
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