Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame
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General question, how often making a dumb move like self voting in RVS is an actual scumtell as opposed to a weird/noob playstyle tell?
PEDIT:
Close, but not quite a real point. ETL, your reasoning has been weak as hell so far on every vote you've made. What I've seen from you so far is just a string of easy to make votes that you can later point to as "aggressive townplay" as scum. What is your motivation for this? More importantly, if you are town, what have you learned from this chain of votes?2million wrote:You're acting like an arrogant "veteran" who thinks they can push new people around and everyone will just sheep them. Trust me that will not be the case.
PEDIT: I cant post because everyone keeps posting, literally unplayable- Awoo
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Oh nice, only one page of ETL accumulated while I slept? This game isn't going to be as hard to read as I thought. I liked ETL's 106, it feels honest.
I think someone asked why I was voting taiho? One of the people I've got my eye on. I don't like his opening string and I want to see where he goes now that we're game on. I cannot speak for 2mil or his vote.
Don't like this particularly, it got my attention.In post 27, skitter30 wrote:Apparently I should've voted for you to be townread by you too lol
DD's string this game has been naked early reads. I don't know how easy it is to fake something like that, but ultimately I TR it since he looks like he's having fun.
91 town.
Fence sitting detected. VOTE: skitter30 Like what, he's all sorts of ick, but it's too easy to vote for him? Usually when I (hear this/have done it in the past myself as scum), it's scum worrying about whether or not their target is too "lynchbait-ey" to vote for. Sometimes they make it real obvious and slip the word lynchbait into their post. Since I just read two conflicting statements, what do you think of TIM?In post 117, skitter30 wrote:[a post by 2iam]is all sorts of ick. Why do you want to form a double wagon on someone who still hasn't posted? Why is this a good thing (you're a fan of it?) and what info would you get out of it? And why on Fykus in particular, out of everyone who only had one vote on them at the time?
Also, I'm feeling like votes on Two are kinda opportunistic/easy? Like, he's blatantly new, and awkward and bad does not necessarily mean scum. I kinda feel like he's an easy place for scum to go at that point (ie I'm talking about Taiho's vote on Two). I vaguely feel the same way about UC.- Awoo
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I think it's worth looking into that most of what people refer to as the speed on the skitter wagon came from sketchy slots like TIAM and Not known.
Get this: if TIAM was really looking to read skitter, he would have read 184 and seen his response to what I said about fence sitting, then responded to that, if anything. This just appears as pushing the wagon for the sake of pushing the wagon instead of trying to formulate reads and sort.
Not to give skitter a clear, but this is reading SvT.- Awoo
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LOL
I sure hope my scumreads don't flip scum or else im in trouble! ..sorry I think I got brain damage while you were shaking me.
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Jingle, why do you say TIM's claim was not premature? I think it was, it caught me off guard. And since I don't understand what your thought process is,
...this just seems like a forced attempt at discrediting ETL in some way. Explain. Furthermore, it also seems like a weak defense of two, followed by a redirection of attention, which leads me to note your (tentative) support. What do you think of TIM/TIM being the lynch today?Two's reaction doesn't seem especially premature, and it's weird that ETL thinks it does, especially without paying enough attention to see the flubbs vote putting him to L-2.
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Confirming that I currently support TIM wagon. I intend to vote for him in the future.
Spoiler: confession- Awoo
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I have more to say but I am busy, just gonna post thoughts.
Skitter, when I voted you, I did so because you were (not fence sitting but what's the word for it? saying "there are reasons for him to be scum and town" without picking one to be more likely? not analyzing your observations?) around TIAM. Now you're doing it again with me. Why aren't you voting me?
I find it bizarre that you nominally "support" my one vote wagon in the same breath that you express distaste for suspiscious amount of support for the TIAM/skitter wagon situation. You're not doing what you say should be done. You're not putting pressure on me either, as one trying to determine my alignment would, you just say "he's gone down in my list". I am aware that you provided reasons why you think this earlier, but your words contradict your actions, and that's how you find scum.
I also TR jingle, and because of that, I believe his claim. Maybe there aren't masons, but there are neibghors and neibghgsdgfhghorizers as TIAM is. And because of that, I think that makes TIAM town IF skitter is scum, which I find more likely.
More on other people tomorrow, I have some rough notes to investigate.- Awoo
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Spoiler: 340, skitter
1. Do you not? That's a role that town or scum can get. Even if my read is wrong it still points toward's jingle's role matching up, and implying he is town.
2. Damn right I didn't wasn't 100% about putting TIAM at L-1. What of it? Also:
"there aren't really that many opportunities to get on a wagon without casting the L-1 or hammer vote" - Blatantly false. Why would you even say this? It just looks like throwing shade* without committing to anything, which is why I scumread you in the first place. I will concede that having a heavy vote may be indicative only of playstyle, but I want to know why you posted this. Do you think what I (attempted to) call you out for is really something scummy, or are you contradicting me for it's own sake?
Something else to note: I've seen posts saying that the skitter / TIAM wagons have near unanimous support. This is mostly true and observable for TIAM, but does it really hold true for skitter? It seems that a general apathy has developed towards her instead of a poking and prodding like we can see for TIAM.
* Maybe I am using the wrong term here, but he's making stuff up to make me look bad.
---still have stuff to post on others tmr dont let me forget---- Awoo
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[CONSPIRACY THEORY] Hear me out on this, since I know a people have this slot as null - town and I don't agree with that at all:
My initial vote on taiho was because of his opening. I always scumread super-meta RVS posts like *insert joke here*, since they are by nature defensive instead of aggressive. In addition, they also read as over thought out by nature.
Spoiler: ?
But we're not in RVS anymore, and I get that, and my attention has shifted elsewhere. Even so, unfunny meta posts like that may be only indicative of humor style and played without a second thought. But here is the kicker:
This confirms my suspicions, you have put thought into your rvs vote. Meaning as scum, you would have been worried about your opening vote, and making it more likely you'd post something like you did.In post 253, taiho wrote: :3 lately i've been trying to catch scum from their first vote, reading past game's rvs votes and afterward looking at the spoilers to check if i've been right.
-- So what is the reason people are townreading this again? I want to hear it especially from you, ETL, since I recall you having that read.
BTW: wicked / two SVS interaction not impossible here.- Awoo
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Last time I posted something like this the response was "The whole world doesn't revolve around you.". Let me repeat that to you. I can see where you're coming from, by that I mean it's kind of like when vigs make a hero shot. I mean think about it, if I'm scum, I don't care if you townread me or not since you're dead night 1, in your own words."Dammit, I want this guy to townread me and I'm not sure how to do that" in her interactions with me. Not in itself a caught scum, but definitely questionable.
I'm he by the way, but I forfeit my right to be called by that the moment I put on a female avatar.
Good night everyone- Awoo
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The only thing I'm learning from this 1v1 is that we are both good at misinterpreting each other's posts. I'm burned out on confronting you directly, and nitpicking over little points isn't going to help me develop my reads. Take that however you will.SKITTER:
More on the skitter wagon, while it was still around, it seemed like no one was actively trying to get skitter lynched, since all the votes on her came from early posts. This could be an indicator of scum presence parking their vote in a safe place meaning: {ETL, NK15, TIAM}. I'm not nearly as confident voting this as I was, so:
UNVOTE: .
Alright it's funny how jingle said to comment on wicked, since that was the next thing I wanted to comment on.
316 was the first post that individually got my attention, because it just feels really safe and easy -- all his scumreads are lurkers or TIAM and I don't like that. so:
Wicked: do you still think this way? Especially considering in 393 you say you're not concerned about 2 thirds of your previously proposed scumteam. If not, who is scum now? If so, why do your other scumreads not concern you?
I really want to know at least one of the alignments of these two, because the whole interaction from 342 to 358 reads to me a bit like 342 "OK, here is the scheduled time to start bussing" -> 358 "OK, thanks for the towncred." In other words it feels a bit {fake? forced? scripted? orchestrated?}. I'm starting to get the feeling my read on wicked is really going to swing based on who flips what.
I'm fine with a TIAM lynch for earlier reasons. also damnnit i kinda wanted wicked to respond to this post before the day ends but V/LA and L-1 :/- Awoo
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I've written up a response to your/others posts but it sounds really angry, and you sound calm.
In the interest of keeping it civil, I will paraphrase this post.
I hammered because DD specifically asked me by name to hammer. On top of that, skitter strongly implies* that I should in 456. What surprised me is that instantly, skitter turns on me, saying "You should have let XYZ happen before the day ends!". If skitter had the best interest of town in mind, she would have posted this in 456, which follows immediately after DD's call to hammer. "I agree, but wait until XYZ." is exactly what town would have done here. Why did you not do that? "It was implied" -> where?
LUV: "there were calls from several players for more content." --- can you quote any? I just saw calls to HAMMER.
*Of course, instead of DD, she left enough plausible deniability in her post so that when I confront her, she can just say "Oh, you misinterpret! I meant you SHOULDNT hammer! ... or some other thing" ... and then get away for free. Is this not manipulative?
Why was I being asked to hammer if it was a bad idea? I don't know what DD thinks so I will ask:
DD, answer this: was my hammer good for town Y/N? Was it what you asked for?
If Y, how do you respond to skitter/ETL/others that condemn it?
If N, why did you ask for it by name without extra conditions (like waiting for XYZ)? More specifically at that exact time?
I also DID scumread TIAM since:
- His role was potentially scumsided, and Jingle's hardclaim, at least the way I read it, implied that it is not unlikely that there exist PT roles on both alignments
- I don't townread bitching and moaning about being lynched. I didn't like his interactions with wicked. He read to me like scum giving up. Sorry if I never made that clear when I was only voicing my hesitation. Ultimately I was satisfied hammering him because there was a chance of a scumflip, even if it was at my expense. Where you point to me 'townreading him': It was a point when people said "These two wagons are on town since there's too much support" (TIAM, skitter), when I said that only holds true for one (TIAM). Yes, this is a source where my hesitation came from. People read my hesitation as being TIAM's partner. *shrug*
[quote-"Awoo"]If this flip makes me look bad at least I can say that I lynched scum.[/quote]
What did he mean by this? Well there are numerous points being thrown out there that made it look like I was TIAM's partner. (see above) So a scumflip on TIAM would have brought suspiscion onto me. *shrug2*
Something to note: overnight, skitter's emotional response and line of questioning has mysteriously left her, and transferred 1:1 to ETL.
467 --- taiho posts an rvs vote that reeks of being overthought. Later says "I like to catch scum based on thier first vote", confirming my suspicions. Why am I going back that far? It's pretty much all the posts from that lurking slot which is being townread for no reason. No, it is not a strong read.
More on like, saturday? IM BUSY- Awoo
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467 --- taiho posts an rvs vote that reeks of being overthought. Later says "I like to catch scum based on thier first vote", confirming my suspicions. Why am I going back that far? It's pretty much all the posts from that lurking slot which is being townread for no reason. No, it is not a strong read.
^ copypaste for LUV- Awoo
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In even less words, the way I interpreted this (which caused me frustration) was that you imply that I should hammer following DD's 455 in your 456, then immediately list reasons why I shouldn't (which you had been keeping hidden) in 477. What I expected next was you pushing on me day 2.
What frustrated me was that I thought you were manipulating me. If you think there's anything you can clarify that I have wrong, please do so.- Awoo
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(taken from 456)
->Once again not actually voting for the Two wagon,although you're fine with it (although tbf I dunno if you wanna end the day just yet, but you didn't give that as a reason for not voting. Last line of your post implies he expect the day to end soon with a lynch on Two; I dunno why you're not just doing it himself but whatever)
->Awkward unvote that isn't followed up with a vote.Why didn't you place it on another scumread if you don't want it on Two for whatever reason?
This is what I got- Awoo
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I'm glad you asked, he's been under my radar for quite a while. I townread him while posts were still in the double digits. He really slacked off come day 1 end and I don't know if it was lack of time or what but he had a good bit of apathy sitting on TIAM. 439 was not bad.awoo what is your read on flubber?
I think I might know why he's voting DD but I'll wait and see. Started town and creeped town to a current Null. Could go either way. Want to see how he plays out.- Awoo
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More like trying to make a read instead of just sitting around with a weak one. But I guess that won't be happening anytime soon.In post 611, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
This is NAI. Both alignments can put thought into their entrance because of self-awareness. Both can also do it in order to garner specific reactions. I don’t like it how feels like you’re clinging desperately to your very weak Taiho read.
I think flub is town. The fakeclaim day 2 universe just doesn't make any sense to me, and what jingle said about him playing like a PR day 1 is right on, in hindsight. ETL do you still think this?
DD, do you think flub is fakeclaiming scum or misc. town? You're voting him based off some bolded text, what do you actually think of his role though?- Awoo
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I swear I've got substantial content I just also have substantial midterms!
Jingle - What I would say to you if you were townreading me because of my meta is this:
" while I only have one completed game: eyes in the fog (newbie 1822) was an awkward as hell game because I was trying to play scum (and scum emulates town) before I learned to play town. Going over that game is most likely going to be to no use of you or to anyone since I will always be playing differently as both alignments from now and onwards."
but I'm still going to say it to you anyways. You sure you're not just getting an "awoo" read?
(more on the game on friday night )- Awoo
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skitter what did you get out of reading that meta on ironstove? I assume nothing changed about your read, since you're still voting him?
and what do you mean that I sheeped you on fykus? I don't see a vote on him anywhere in your iso except RVS. I'm all for pressuring/voting up slots {fyk, taiho, iron, UCV}, since I just don't see a possible universe in which there isn't at least 1 scum in that pool. As for flub VS DD, night actions will sort who's who. (slightly weaker/potentially moot point: but doesn't sit well with me that wicked's scumreads were pretty much just: "the lurkers" near day 1 end.)
VOTE: ironstove
Those of you voting skitter, what do you make of our interaction at daystart? It doesn't really make sense to me how skitter backed off. If skitter VS me was SvT, why did she suddenly back off? None of us were in any real danger of getting lynched immediately, so how does it make sense that she suddenly turns on me like that?
LUV: I'll take the bait, what is your read on skitter?- Awoo
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@skitter:
1. OK cool.
2. This isn't really a reply to you but the fact that iron says he's matching his townplay right after this in 874 just reads like "why am i being voted, I'm doing the exact same easy to do thing I do as town!". I mentioned in my post that I am all for voting people in the pool listed because of PoE, and the fact that votes get reactions. See how I got a reaction out of him? I don't like it.
3. 2
4. The fact that you bring up "scumreading the other is too much work" concerns me because it looks like you did just that. - is what I want to say but that's probably a misrep as town/easy to explain away as scum.
Without throwing baseless accusations like we did last time, the reason why I got off you was because I got that bad feeling where I start to doubt the person I'm tunneling is actually scum and I need to start looking at the rest of the game. So you're right to notice a change in progression style there. And there you go again with the "don't townread me" thing. DD already did that and recieved town points for it, now I just view it with concern.
tl;dr My heart wants to believe you are town, but I have my reservations.
5. 393
see: I will be later. Better kill me before it's too late and I start focusing on someone and my death actually implicates them specifically. This is to be taken with a grain of NK WIFOM salt.Wicked wrote:I also agree that it's an issue that four people {taiho, NK15, IS, UC} have basically been non-entities this game.But I'm not worried about that right now.
Fascinating, now your meta is worthless. You're upset with my vote on you and ETL's vote on you but instead analyzing any of this, you are just complaining about being voted. I'll force you to do the analysis: what does this actually say about skitter, me/etl?IS wrote:at least skitter gave a reason, not a good one. The guy even claims he meta dove me and the way I'm playing right now matches my town play in lock step and he's still choosing to vote for me because he doesn't like me. Shit reason, but at least it's a reason. - Awoo
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