Open 695: Making Friends and Enemies [Mafia Win!]

[Jamiet99uk]

Greetings, fellow townsfolk.

14 day phases are a bit mad. Why so long?

[Jamiet99uk]

It's literally the same opening I used last time.

VOTE: Aubrey because it literally says "Mafia Scum" after your name. What more proof do I need?

[Jamiet99uk]

What's EBWOP?

[Jamiet99uk]

Also by the way, does this site have an automatic vote counter or anything?

webDip / vDip have one and it's super useful. Here it is for reference, running during the current vDip mafia game: http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/game_status?g=1001

[Jamiet99uk]

Not much happening so far.

##CALL GM
What's the current vote count?

[Jamiet99uk]

##CALL GM

That vote count appears wrong. I have voted. Why is my vote not counted?

[Jamiet99uk]

Also, you guys, I'm sorry if I'm coming across badly because I'm new, but there are now 5 votes on me and two more would end the day while it's still in the random shitposting phase. I don't think that's a good idea.

[Jamiet99uk]

@GM: Peterlund on webDip / vDip would probably adapt his bot program to suit this website if someone asked him - he's super helpful and a good programmer.

I am going to VOTE: Awoo for piling onto an easy wagon formed during the shitposting phase. Scum love easy lynches.

[Jamiet99uk]

What was dumb about my statement?

Explain
it
to
me
?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Chisa:

What is Assemble's "usual" approach that you so dislike?

[Jamiet99uk]

Eww. I don't like lurkers.

Do you ever policy lynch them here?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Thomas of the Tiels
@Vadim

The game has been running for two days, why have you still not posted?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.

[Jamiet99uk]

Right Aubrey, you're so very, very clever, you win the game on you own. I'll just sit here and not post anything.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey - My point was more about the importance of the Masons having a 1-shot copscan than the basic "let's not kill them", but we got there in the end.

[Jamiet99uk]

Why do you all quote each other all the time??

Quick, you were literally replying to the post above yours just there. We can see what Chisa wrote. If it was a quote from 3 pages ago, sure. But I don't get why you constantly cut and paste each other's quotes?

What am I missing?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm partly complaining because you'd get a lot more on a page if you guys didn't constantly feel the need to quote each other - because the quotes take up space on the page. They actually make it harder to follow the thread because of the space they take up.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Quick:

"someone could have posted in between my post and theirs, which then people would have to try and figure out who I was responding to"

You could just start your reply with "@Chisa", like I just did with you. That would make it just as clear you were responding to Chisa, and would take up less space on the page.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey:

"I don't see any difference or innovation between what you said, and what should already be common knowledge though."

You are entitled to your views about what should be common knowledge, but in practice you'll notice that Quick hadn't realised this point about the Mason's abilities, as it happened.

[Jamiet99uk]

Now, Scooby, do you scumread me for my post about the Masons, or do you just like to feel superior?

[Jamiet99uk]

Current Townreads:

Jamiet99uk
CheekyTeeky
Quick
Cheesy Yukizone

Current Scumreads:

Awoo
Lucca261
Assemblerot

Current Nullreads:

Aubrey
CommKnight
Non-posters

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey - I'm sorry, maybe it's just a communication clash because this is the first time we've encountered each other. Your tone struck me as condescending - but perhaps that was just how I interpreted it, and not your intention. Not to worry, let's move on.

I've explained my scumread on Awoo, who I'm currently voting for.

My scumread on Assemblerot is based on a combination of his behaviour in this game so far, and something he said in the original game which was re-rolled. What he said back there was that he realises he often lurks, and will try to be much more involved on this occasion. When the re-roll happened, he posted early and looked like he was trying to be (or appear) involved, but then melted away and hasn't posted again.

Over on webDip / vDip we've got this guy, VashtaNeurotic, who combines horrible lurking with regular promises not to lurk. There was a game a while back where I think he made 20 posts in the whole game, of which 11 or 12 were "I'm just catching up with the thread, I'll have some comments soon" and then never did.

Assemblerot is currently striking me as that kind of lurker, and I don't like it. So it's not *just* anti-lurker bias, but anti-lurker bias linked to Assemble's promise that he'd be active in this game.


@Lucca261: Reasonable question - my scumread of you is based primarily on the manner of your vote for Cheeky, which you made without giving any kind of proper reason - yet you felt the need to say this was a "serious vote". Then your subsequent unwillingness to explain yourself. Townies explain their votes because this helps other townies to investigate. Also Awoo, who I scumread, defended you but with little explanation. That could be confirmation bias, I accept. We'll see.

For the second part of your question, I'm leaning town on Cheeky because she's explaining her thoughts and actions, and is asking questions and scumhunting. Also she's buddying me and I like being buddied (jk).


@Quick: "How sure of these reads are you at this time?"

- Not very. It's Day 1 mate. Anyone who is sure of their reads on Day 1 is probably scum. Or massively over-confident. Lucca is one or other of those things.

[Jamiet99uk]

I have played before, Quick - this is my first time here and things seem a bit different, but I've got several games under my belt on other sites. Just being transparent; full disclosure.

[Jamiet99uk]

Invite Vecna; he is clearly spectating this game...

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lalendra: You are not sure of your read on me, but you are voting for me. Why is your vote on me if you don't necessarily scumread me?

[Jamiet99uk]

Also, you guys, I'm sorry if I'm coming across badly because I'm new, but there are now 5 votes on me and two more would end the day while it's still in the random shitposting phase. I don't think that's a good idea.

I have no idea how to take this comment it doesn't feel that genuine that I would expect from a new player wouldn't mind a wagon on this still


@Maki - Could you explain this statement please? I don't understand what you mean by "that I would expect from a new player wouldn't mind a wagon on this still"

[Jamiet99uk]

Aubrey that image isn't loading properly.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lalendra: I asked you a question (at the top of page 9) and you seem to have ignored it or missed it. Can you answer it please?

[Jamiet99uk]

let me get back in the game by making a quick "what I think of each player":

Jamie: yeah, I'm kinda of torn about his slot. he's using the newbie card a lot, more that I would like. when I was a newbie, the last thing I wanted was to people to point I was a newbie. he's using subtle language to point how he is a new player since the start, on things like 43, 71 and 128. and the mix of an apologetic approach, seen on 43, with an agressive approach, seen on the rest of his posts, especially against Aubrey, concerns me, and makes me think that the tone on 43 was the tone of a concerned player, that was using the newbie card to at least get more air, when he had five votes against him.
on the other hand, I think that the things he is questioning are ok, and I liked his response to me about why he scumreads me. I also don't think that a player that seems so eager to fit in with the meta would be such an eager scum player, with lot of posts and questions. so right now, I would say that the slot is on the complete middle to me.
question: what do you think of Maki vote/unvote on awoo?

Good question. Maki's vote on Awoo wasn't very well explained. It seemed to just be a vote because Maki thought Awoo's comment to me was a bit shitty, rather than necessarily scummy. So I wasn't that surprised when Maki was unvoted - didn't appear a very sincere vote in the first place.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lalendra: Right, so just to be clear, your vote on me is from the early game shitposting, and you don't actually have a case against me or anything?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Maki: "This feels really convenient that you chose to comment on me after someone else makes a statement on it."

Uh, no. I chose to reply to a question that Lucca asked me. Would you prefer that I ignore questions and refuse to answer them??

[Jamiet99uk]

@Maki: Okay - no worries.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lalendra: Right, so just to be clear, your vote on me is from the early game shitposting, and you don't actually have a case against me or anything?

I don't like this very much.

Why?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.

What steps shall we take to keep the masons alive?

Let's try not to lynch them.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Thomas of the Tiels
@Vadim

The game has been running for two days, why have you still not posted?

This seems off.

In what sense? What do you dislike about it?

[Jamiet99uk]

Lots of fluuuuuuufffffffffffff from Jamie, and his wagon dissolved faster than a fast-relief aspirin in a vat of hydrochloric acid. I'd like to see the pressure maintained longer.

VOTE: Jamie

I don't like this post.

[Jamiet99uk]

It seems to me that Epic Fial and Aubrey are both voting for me because they don't like my style, rather than for anything that actually makes me seem likely to be scum.

Kek.

[Jamiet99uk]

It seems to me that Epic Fial and Aubrey are both voting for me because they don't like my style, rather than for anything that actually makes me seem likely to be scum.

Kek.

I'm sorry that I think your coasting, not addressing my concerns, and producing Eh content.

You're.

What concerns did you raise that I have not replied to? Could you state your question(s) for me clearly?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey: I just re-read post 234. I don't see you asking me a question anywhere in that post. Please could you re-state the question?

I'm not being awkward, I honestly don't see you asking me a question in that post.

[Jamiet99uk]

Also Aubrey, why are you voting me, then, exactly?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey: In the context of a question he asked concerning Maki "not minding" a wagon on me, you accused Lalendra of, and I quote:

"a question with an obvious answer that doesn't exactly need to be asked."

Surely that's a criticism of Lalendra, not me? What are you trying to ask me about it?

You really aren't making yourself anywhere near as clear as you seem to think you are.

[Jamiet99uk]

This is like the third time I've asked you to clarify what it is you're asking me.

I'm not trying to avoid your question, I'm trying to understand what it is.

You could save us both time by stating it clearly. Thanks in advance.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey - Okay sorry, I really had just missed your question there... kinda buried in a big block of text and not directly addressing me.

I think you are right that since my vote is still on Awoo it would be prudentbto re-read her. Give me a little time to do that.

[Jamiet99uk]

so, let's talk: what's my motivation as scum to accuse cheeky without any reasons here?

Don't like this line. Do you think it mattered if you had a reason or not that early in the game? To me you're pushing something either alignment could have done forward and saying "scum wouldn't do it".

More later, I owe this game some actual content.

Having re-read Awoo I no longer scumread him (not her, sorry it was the female picture). Awoo seems to be looking carefully at people's reactions which is good scumhunting play. I particularly agree with this response to Lucca261. It's egregiously scummy to want to know what people think you would do or say as scum (so you can later avoid doing or saying things that will get you scumread).

VOTE: UNVOTE until I can properly reread Lucca.

[Jamiet99uk]

Dammit this game is packed with quitters.

That's like the 5th replacement in a 13 player game. Is that normal here?

[Jamiet99uk]

@CommKnight:

Do you trust your gut enough to stake your own neck on it?

[Jamiet99uk]

Assemble tells us to follow CommKnight's gut / Assemble's vote is not on the same target as CommKnight....

Hmm.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Awoo: Who are you addressing?

[Jamiet99uk]

If it's me you're talking to, I'd just say that if I changed my vote every time someone said something suspect, I'd have to move my vote at least once a page. I don't like throwing my vote around willy-nilly, like some other people seem to enjoy. Plus voting for Assemble at this point might not give very much info since he's asked to be replaced. Having said that, I don't like replacements getting a free pass.

I'm about to do a full re-read of Lucca.

[Jamiet99uk]

In the meantime I'm waiting for CommKnight to answer my last question to him.

[Jamiet99uk]

Lucca261 has made 13 posts.

First was a shitphase joke vote on CommKnight. Second was his "serious vote" schtick on Cheeky. Some sort of rxn test, we suppose, but in the conversation in 113 and 117 he says it wasn't and he apparently knew Cheeky was scum for sure, that early (without explanation).

Post 139 doesn't know how anyone can have strong reads (and yet 22 posts before that he was sure of his scumread on Cheeky).

Up to that point - pretty hedgy and scummy.

Then from 208 onwards we get some more detailed, less abrasive posts from Lucca which seem more inquisitive and involved. His questioning of me seems reasonable - and he finally explains his early push on Cheeky.

@Lucca: Why did it take until 203 to explain why you scumread Cheeky on 59?

[Jamiet99uk]

Having re-read Awoo I no longer scumread him (not her, sorry it was the female picture). Awoo seems to be looking carefully at people's reactions which is good scumhunting play. I particularly agree with this response to Lucca261. It's egregiously scummy to want to know what people think you would do or say as scum (so you can later avoid doing or saying things that will get you scumread).

VOTE: UNVOTE until I can properly reread Lucca.

So let me get this straight. You originally scumread the slot, but that slot didn't keep your interest that much moving forward until you were pressured into expanding on your read? This is a red flag to me. If you scum-read a slot, they should hold a good amount of your attention. As the slot begins to change, shouldn't you take note of that instead of being forced into recap? It's stuff like this that hints artificially suspecting people to me.

/quote]

Why do you call people "slots"? Why not "them" or "that person"? What a weird word choice. As for your question, it was an early, although sincere, vote - and I hadn't seen fit to move it. Lalendra is doing the exact same thing with a vote from the shitphase still being on me because, as Lalendra has said, they haven't had a better option yet. Do you scumread Lalendra for that behaviour, Aubrey?

[Jamiet99uk]

Uhm, I'm not sure what happened with the quotes there. The whole thing from the start, until "Why do you call people slots" is a quote of Aubrey. (I'm trying to do it right!!)

[Jamiet99uk]

Multiple times?

Wait, the person in a "slot" can change "multiple times" during a single game?

Can someone who has played a few games here before confirm this?

I'm used to playing in 20 player games where there might be 2-3 substitues at most...

Is it the norm here that during a single game half the players quit or fail to participate and get replaced?

[Jamiet99uk]

Because if that's normal here, I probably just need to leave this website.

[Jamiet99uk]

@CommKnight: While I'm still playing: So, do you agree to the following?

- If I sheep your vote this turn, and (y)our target is lynched, and flips TOWN, then you agree that YOU will be the lynch tomorrow, and to that ens, will vote for yourself tomorrow in those circumstances?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Awoo

I'm not quitting. I just don't see the point in this website if the games are so shit that half the players quit during the course of an average game like CommKnight has suggested. This game has already had what I'd regard as a worryingly high level of replacements...

[Jamiet99uk]

@Quick: Why are you voting me? Why am I scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: Quick for literally admitting that his vote on me is lazy. What a pile of shit.

[Jamiet99uk]

@CommKnight:

I thought you were super-sure of your gut? You admit you might be WRONG?

[Jamiet99uk]

Also CommKnight I would like a YES or NO answer to my previous query.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lucca: Tell me more about naked votes and why you like them?

[Jamiet99uk]

(If I assume a "naked" vote is a vote without explanation - then I think they're shit, and scummy as fuck)

[Jamiet99uk]

Also, Lucca, please give some commentary on why you said in Post 139 that you were amazed anyone had any reads, and yet before that you'd been super-sure of your scumread on Cheeky. Tell us about that apparent inconsistency please?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Quick: Why are you voting me? Why am I scum?

VOTE: Quick for literally admitting that his vote on me is lazy. What a pile of shit.

Would you give me a chance to answer, Jesus Christ.

You voted me without explanation, and said "sorry for being lazy"... You don't expect me to call you on that?

smh

[Jamiet99uk]

I didn't think you were going to. I thought you were going to go off and attend to your other games, and be lazy about this one, as your post implied.

[Jamiet99uk]

Now, COMMKNIGHT is voting for me.

How much does he trust his magical guts?

I will agree follow him, and to vote for myself today, if he agrees that he will lead a D2 lynch on *himself* if I flip town.

What's it to be, CommKnight? I am not afraid to die.

[Jamiet99uk]

Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

[Jamiet99uk]

* to see people's reactions (not "too").

[Jamiet99uk]

##CALL GM - can we get a vote count please?

[Jamiet99uk]

Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

So... was that thing where you told people not to lynch the masons the same type of thing?

Erm, no. It was something else. I don't wish to discuss that at the moment.

[Jamiet99uk]

Haha... presumably a scum IC would have a one-shot power where they could get the GM to confirm that they are 100% scum. That should be called Guilty Child.

[Jamiet99uk]

Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

1) Not sure if I believe this was all a ploy, or if this is backpedaling and "I MEANT TO DO THAT."
2) Remember how we were trying not to out the masons? Saying you're VT is narrowing the pool. We already talked about this. Stahp.
3) "I'm definitely town, fellow townsfolk" is the most LAMIST post I've ever seen.

I'm not trying to out the Masons or narrow the pool. Maybe you are.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Lalendra: You're mistaken about what I'm trying to do. I'm not scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: Lalendra for fishing.

[Jamiet99uk]

It's easy to say you're not scum, but you didn't refute my points.

If I did that, I would have to explain myself. That would be counter-productive at this time. Don't vote for me tho. Thanks.

[Jamiet99uk]

Aubrey once again that image isn't loading properly, I can't see what it is.

[Jamiet99uk]

Who is claiming VT? Me? Nonono.

(Aubrey I am using a computer)

[Jamiet99uk]

In response to people telling you that your "challenge" to CK was a bad idea, you posted this:

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

You certainly didn't seem afraid to die, and said that your flip would be informative. For me that really sounds like you are soft-claiming VT.

Tunnel me more, please.

[Jamiet99uk]

Yes, my continuing to push you on things you've said and refuse to defend, and calling you out on your unwillingness to explain yourself, is obviously just unfounded tunneling.

Perhaps your intention is well-founded and you just have no idea what I might be doing, but it's still tunnelling and it's not very helpful at this point. It's just becoming repetitious.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Mod: Really, will there be a vote count?

(I'll do one myself but can't rely on it...)

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 1.6.1 (UNOFFICIAL)

Jamiet99uk (5): Aubrey, Lalendra, Epic Fial, Quick, CommKnight
CommKnight (2): Chisa Yukizome, lucca261
Lalendra (2): Awoo, Jamiet99uk
Maki Harukawa (1): northsidegal
Epic Fial (1): CheekyTeeky
Lucca(1): Flavour Leaf
CheekyTeeky(1): Maki Harukawa


I hope that's correct...

[Jamiet99uk]

@Cheeky: What order are those reads in? Most town at the top?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Cheeky: Ok, why are you voting for Quick when your #1 scumread appears to be Lucca?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm the biggest wagon right now, but there are several days left to go.

[Jamiet99uk]

Wait a second.... When does this phase end? I thought we had 14-day long Day phases? That's what I'm sure the Mod said when we started. But now I notice that when the game began the Mod announced there were 7 days until the phase ended. That would mean that Day 1 has already ended.

Am I dead?

@Mod - when does D1 end, please?

[Jamiet99uk]

Definitely a bit firmer of a readlist than before. I want to brush Jamiet off as a noob!Town. But his play is just soo scummy. Like I don't know any other site that I have ever played on that would read his play as town. So I can't even say "Oh, it's the culture over there." Because I bet if I entered the site, it definitely isn't.

<cut>

Jamie I know you have experience elsewhere but I really recommend playing in a newbie game where you get people playing who are "trained" to give you a handle on how things work on MS. The games are still competitive and fun imo.

Thanks Cheeky. As it happens, I joined this site in September (I think) and put my name down for several newbie games as well joining this queue. This was just the first one that started. The newbie games don't appear to get set up that oftwn. Certainly I've been in the newbie queue for over a month without a game starting.

I will respond to CommKnight in a moment. Give me a second, I'm posting by phone.

[Jamiet99uk]

{CheekyTeeky}
{Awoo, Aubrey}
{northsidegal, Maki Harukawa, Chisa Yukizome}
{Flavor Leaf, Quick, Epic Fial}
{Jamiet99uk, Lalendra, lucca261}

Definitely a bit firmer of a readlist than before. I want to brush Jamiet off as a noob!Town. But his play is just soo scummy. Like I don't know any other site that I have ever played on that would read his play as town. So I can't even say "Oh, it's the culture over there." Because I bet if I entered the site, it definitely isn't.

Also his bitching about the mod and replacements seems like he's trying to push the topic away from himself. Blaming it on the community when every mafia forum I used before this has always had a reserve list in case of site flakes or people taking on more than they can handle at the time. This is the first site where the game begins without a reserve list already made up that I've been to though. But that also means a lot of other sites are use to people replacing out or bailing as well. So his attitude is unneeded.

I think I'm just waiting to see some flips though before I can get into figuring this one out. There's a few ways it can go and I'm trying to do it where mafia are forced to out themselves.

@CommKnight: Which sites have you played on? List them.

Most of my experience comes from webDiplomacy on which nearly all the games are 18-25 player theme games. In that environment gambits are common and are not necessarily alignment indicative.

As for my complaint about replacements - yes, the odd substitution is unfortunately a neccessity. On webDip and vDip we'd have a subs list before the game begins (and I totally agree with you, that ought to be standard practice here). But we've had, what is it, four subs? In a 13-player game? I'm reassured to know that's not normal here, but it did kinda worry me. That's all. Certainly not AI.

I think Epic is right. You are less of a genius veteran super l-player than your ego thinks you are. Now you're voting me for completely non alignment indicative reasons.

Try harder.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie is becoming a policy lynch.
A policy lynch that I support.
VOTE: jamiet99uk
Because otherwise it's too obvious who's getting mason'd, and that's bad. At least when we remove this from the game there is a good layer of ambiguity who the copshot lands on.

Is it bad if I think this slot isn't reaaaaaaly going to flip scum? I don't think this lynch is terrible for town as we also get some info on who's on wagons and stuff, who pushed him throughout the day, etc. But I don't reaaaly think it's going to flip scum.

A lot of my scumreads are on this wagon and I feel bad in that regard but read above.

I THINK THIS IS L-1

You are misreading my intentions. I'm not attempting to get Masoned. If I am not a Mason the Masons should definitely not attempt to Mason me. I would strongly discourage any such action!

[Jamiet99uk]

Awoo must be certain I am town, and yet is trying to lynch me. The whole theory that I'm trying to get masonized makes no sense if you think I'm scum - because there's no way scum would want the masons to confirm their role. Thus Awoo knows I am town and is nevertheless attempting to lynch me.

There is only one sensible conclusion. Awoo is scum.

VOTE: Awoo

[Jamiet99uk]

@Awoo: Do you think they're both scum together?

I'm less inclined to scumread Quick, out of that pair.

[Jamiet99uk]

@CommKnight: Your two cents are not worth 0.02 of a cent. Try harder.

[Jamiet99uk]

You are right. I should post some reads. Ok here they come:

MOST TOWN
Northsidegal, FlavourLeaf
Quick, Aubrey
Chisa Yukizome, Epic Fial
Maki Harukawa, Cheeky Teeky
Lucca261
CommKnight
Lalendra
Awoo
MOST SCUM

[Jamiet99uk]

I purport there are two scum in CommKnight, Lalendra, Awoo, Lucca261

[Jamiet99uk]

Well I'm at work and have limited time. Tonight I will do a full re-read on my four top scumreads, and my top townreads Northside and FlavaFlave, in case I'm wrong about them.

Stay tuned!

[Jamiet99uk]

Quick is actually thinking about things and not just screaming and shouting and stating the apparently obvious about things that are on the surface.

[Jamiet99uk]

Actually Quick has been intelligent enough to notice something that many of you have failed to grasp.

[Jamiet99uk]

Re-read on Northsidegal, as promised.

Subbed in on p.7 for Thomas of the Tiels who had not posted.

#171 on Lucca was constructive and towny and similar to my own thoughts as expressed at #149.

The #170/ #172/ #173 exchange with Maki on re-read just makes Northside look more Town and Maki look even more scum. Maki's post at 170 was just false, a complete mis-representation of Northside's actions and NS responded calmly. Maki's response was really quite weak.

#177, #182 and #188 strike me as genuine and investigative, or in the case of 188 explaining her approach to invesigative play. Pressing the point on Lucca in #222 and #226 likewise investigative, sensible, towny, trying to progress the game.

At #364 she responded very sensibly to my rxn test vs CommKnight.

On that same train of thought #496 hopefully now speaks for itself - certainly Awoo's "policy lynch" on me was either incredibly ill thought out, or incredibly scummy, and NS's reaction to it was the correct reaction in my view (and I'm not just saying that because it reduced the pressure on me).

Northsidegal is a strong townread for me, and on re-read nothing has changed in that respect. Why are people strongly scum-reading her, exactly?

[Jamiet99uk]

I started my promised re-read of Flavour Leaf and immediately noticed something weird that totally calls me to question my townread...

Flavour Leaf replaced Assemblerotws who did actually post before subbing out. Assemble made all of four posts:

#11 Votes EpicFial
#31 Explains that was a random bullshit vote

(Vanishes for ages)

#203 Re-appears, buddies CommKnight hard.
#313 Buddies CommKnight again, subs out.

(Flavour Leaf subs in)

#372 Says hello (no content)
#374 Identifies that CommKnight is in the game, and takes the trouble to point out that CommKnight is experienced in open setups.
#375 Declares that CommKnight can sometimes be misread but is definitely town in this game.

Let's just stop at this point. This bothers me. Of the first 7 posts made by this slot, 4/7 are devoted to painting CommKnight as some kind of town hero whose reads must be respected. Why would both the initial player in this slot, and their replacement, devote so much positive attention to CommKnight?

I'd like Flavour Leaf to explain this.

[Jamiet99uk]

Note: Everyone who has experience with me are townreading me.

Think on that for a moment and then look at your reads.

Either I'm magically scum with everyone I've played with before or they're posting their actual read of me. Hmmm. What one could it be.

Also note that Flavor TR's me but I don't TR him. We've had multiple games together (same as the predecessor Assemble).

But you know, let's act like the TI and pretend that it's a conspiracy.

Just because some of them may "actually" townread you doesn't magically mean they're all correct. This is your best defence? A raw appeal to meta? You behaved this way as town before, so you MUST be town today? Bull. Shit.

Maybe if you spent a bit more time scumhunting, and a bit less time shouting at everyone who disagrees with you and telling us how big your testicles are, I'd have more sympathy with you.

As it is, you apparently just want everyone to follow you out of religious faith rather than for any logical reason, like you're the town messiah.

Try harder.

VOTE: CommKnight

[Jamiet99uk]

You're literally voting someone because you don't like them

False.

[Jamiet99uk]

[quote="... then you can turn around and say quick is not scummy? Either hes's your partner or you are just really bad at actually reading content. [/quote]

I certainly hope that Quick is on the same team as me, yes - the Town Teem.

[Jamiet99uk]

What's your case on me, CommKnight? Could you summarise it?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Awoo: You think CommKnight *isn't* full of it? You think his posts are more substance than ego? Really?

[Jamiet99uk]

A re-read of Quick up to Page 22, citing only posts which are of significance
================

#13: Queries Assemblerotws' vote. Wonders why there isn't more participation in the early stage.

#17 #18: Wants to know what alts are in play and posts a link to players in a previous game identifying their alts - including his own.

#25: Gives a logical answer to Aubrey's question about his own questioning of Assemblerotws.

#47: Doesn't think I should be lynched.

#49 (and again at #123): Explains his policy on quicklynches - seems a sound and logical policy (but is not town indicative as he himself says he always has this position).

#86 / 88 / 90 / 92 exchange with CheekyTeeky looks weird on re-read. Quick's vote on Cheeky for Cheeky's vote on Lucca being "horrible" either indicates Quick wasn't properly reading the thread, or... I dunno.

#144: Questions my first set of reads.

#220: Summary of current feelings. Explains his thought processes on several players so far.

#232: Questions Lalendra for having a vote parked on someone (me) they didn't scumread. Fair comment.

#245: Tries to get more participation from Epic.

#270: First inklings of a battle with CommKnight over CommKnight's "gut".

#282: Clogs up the thread by re-posting a lot of low-content crap from Aubrey. Not great.

#284: I didn't townread Lucca at this time but in retrospect Quick's discussion of Lucca's attack on Cheeky makes sense.

#302: Calls out CommKnight's bullshit. He's right. It's bullshit.

#352: Interrogates me, perfectly legitimately. At the time I was seeing how people would react to my gambit vs CommKnight, as you'll all recall.

#495, 498: Jumps from me to Awoo because of Awoo's awful PL post. Fair enough.

#513: I like this post.


On balance I still think Quick is more likely to be town than CommKnight, and if CommKnight is town, which I doubt, his attitude stinks.

[Jamiet99uk]

CommKnight was one of the players that I recognized yet didn’t have a lot of experience with, as the game I did play with him, I replaced in, targeted him, didn’t put a lot of effort into it, then got night kill. Aubrey is kind of the same way. I don’t play a lot of open games. Not my thing. Generally I recognize the majority of players in games, maybe just not one or two, but over here that is not the case. Even the players I’m more familiar with I don’t have much experience with.

This is a very poor explanation in light of my question / observation regarding Assemblerotws being all "Comm is so great at reads!! You should all trust him!!" and then your first post about Comm basically being a declaration that you'd townread him all day today regardless.

How do you read him now?

[Jamiet99uk]

MY TR on Quick comes from the posts I indicate that I like.

[Jamiet99uk]

You also didn't include any information about WHY you liked those posts, as Awoo pointed out.

If you can't see why, that's your problem.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm not seeking to persuade you that Quick is town. I'm telling you that that is how I read him.

But if you've played enough Mafia, I've given you the clues.

Lalendra almost got there a moment ago.

[Jamiet99uk]

You may draw your own conclusions.

Just try to make them the right ones.

Anyone who strongly townreads CommKnight: Why? Do you like being shouted at? Do you enjoy bright colours?

[Jamiet99uk]

meh, Jamie is probably scum.

@jamie, 580: name your post. point to it. I don't like this one bit.

answer.

#513

[Jamiet99uk]

@Northsidegal, Lalendra, Maki

Re-read CommKnight's ISO and tell me why you TR him.

[Jamiet99uk]

knsmsjcndjuskalslslwkdkdkksks

What's this shit?

[Jamiet99uk]

Comm,

My issue is that you seemed to have only started acting on that second point two days before deadline, and only on the single person you can use to make sure you're alive tomorrow.

So let's see. You have an issue with me pointing out flaws in someone who wants to 1v1 me and is refusing to look at other people.

If you mean Quick, did you just fail to notice that Quick just posted a detailed case on Awoo?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Mod: Are there 2 votes on Lalendra, or one?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Flubbeer: Reason for moving from Comm to Quick?

[Jamiet99uk]

@CommKnight: She didn't think he was going to say that, about what I thought about them though, did you consider that?

[Jamiet99uk]

How to get townread by jamie: quantity > quality. By my calculations, the content of this post should confirm me as town in jamie's eyes.

Spoiler:

im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im tow

n im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im to

wn im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town

im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town

(I'm actually not going to rule out this mindset as noobtown thinking effort == towniness, but a red flip on quick is pretty damn incriminating to jamie.)

You're the third most prolific poster in the game and I scumread you, so clearly that's not true. Keep on making shit up, go ahead.

[Jamiet99uk]

@jamie, do you townread me? because your read on my slot seems to change to further your narrative.

I find you hard to read. I've been inclined to scumread you at times yet you do seem investigative at least some of the time as well. I'm currently leaning town. I said there were four scum in CommKnight, Awoo, Lalendra and you, and right now I'm of the opinion it's the first two.

[Jamiet99uk]

Note that Flubbernugget is now Cheeky

[Jamiet99uk]

That is, Flubberknugget took over

[Jamiet99uk]

For Comm, I don't think he ever really says he should be town read, but I can totally see him using like some kinda subliminal messaging which is trying to push the agenda that he is Town.

Go ahead and ISO him and search "Town".

I dislike this.

[Jamiet99uk]

Has the phase ended?

Are we still allowed to talk?

[Jamiet99uk]

Wait I don't understand.

Aubrey said his vote was the HAMMER on Quick. Doesn't that mean the phase ends immediately with Quick being lynched?

Why are you people still posting and voting? Don't we have to wait now?

[Jamiet99uk]

Screw you all.

This looks like a townie response to dying, unless Quick is just a sore loser.

[Jamiet99uk]

So... basically.... Aubrey fucked up, phase has not ended, Quick is not lynched yet. That's the actual status, yeah?

[Jamiet99uk]

If nobody gets me, I have fialed. Comm should get me, of all people left in the game.

Everyone is left in the game.
No-one has died yet.
You've eaten
too
much
gingerbread.

[Jamiet99uk]

OH SHIT MAKI UNVOTED! I thought she was voting Comm.

Are you just being shit on purpose now?

If Maki was on Comm instead of on "Unvote" that would have made zero difference to whether your vote on Quick was the hammer, or not.

[Jamiet99uk]

Just Lynch me. I don't see Comm getting enough votes to get lynched and prolly no way in hell anyone else gets a sizable wagon in time before EOD.

Sure if that's what you really want?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to be direct and somewhat cold about this. If I feel like you're scraping by, and your content isn't matching the norm in your catchups, and you say' "well life is busy" I straight up won't give a damn. I'm understanding to a busy schedule, holidays, and RL troubles but at some point your content has to fully make up and account for that lack of activity.

This doesn't just pertain to you but to everyone.

Whom art thou addressing?
Please do try to make yourself clear.

[Jamiet99uk]

Quick is at L-1
He is not claiming.
He says he wants to be lynched.
I think he is VT
I think his response to *thinking* Aubrey's vote was the hammer was either the response of a VT or a very sore loser.

I also think these 14 day long phases are totally absurd. We've long since reached a point where people are a bit switched off and waiting for the phase to end. There's just no need for day phases of this stupid length. Whose idea was it?

I will hammer Quick if that's what he actually wants. It will give us some new information to talk about, at least.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Everyone: If you've played with Quick before, is he a sore loser likely to bitch and swear if he's scum and gets caught?

@Quick: Shall I end your misery?

[Jamiet99uk]

maybe i am maybe im not, you're basically a ghost while I've got your avatar blocked

Talking of avatara, why do you have this banner over your avatar that says you're AFK or unable to post or something, yet here you are constantly posting?

Just keeping a convenient excuse handy so you can't be associated with anything that happens while you "weren't here"?

[Jamiet99uk]

OH SHIT MAKI UNVOTED! I thought she was voting Comm.

VOTE: Jamie

^ Next in line for scum lynch. I got class at the moment... but that was an epic fail on more than one instances.

1.) For pointing out it wasn't the hammer. (Hint: When you can make someone believe it's the hammer, push them to admit they're scum)..

More bullshit from CommKnight.

First of all, go back and actually look at what happened in the moments immediately after Aubrey declared the (incorrect) hammer. If you bother to do that you'll notice Quick did react, well before anyone pointed out the vote wasn't at 7. It was actually Awoo, not me, who pointed out the phase wasn't ending yet. And yet it's me, not Awoo, who you're attacking fot this. So:

- It was Awoo and not me who drew attention to the fact the hammer hasn't dropped,
- Quick had already responded in any case by that point,
- So voting for this alleged reason is based on either a mis-reading of events, or a bullshit false narrative.

Second of all, using the game mechanics, rather than your deductive skills, to trick people into revealing things should be considered cheating. It would be on some other sites. You're a piece of shit, and a bad sport, Comm.

[Jamiet99uk]

If I was trying to get Quick lynched, I could obviously have done it by now. Fucking hell.

[Jamiet99uk]

look at this reaction to the fake hammer. look at how he wants to be excused for the hammer he was about to do. he knew quick was flipping town. his 790 is just making that not so obvious.

Holy cocksucking christ. I was attempting to persuade Quick not to demand his own death.

Wow.

[Jamiet99uk]

Christ on a fucking bike. I quit.

I'm town. The thing I didn't want to explain was that I spent the early part of this phase attempting to imply I was a slightly n00b Mason who wanted to be read as a VT to avoid the NK. This was intended to draw the NK onto me so a real Mason would be protected. I assume Quick noticed this, but the rest of you...

Enjoy the rest of the game. Fucking hell what a shower of fucking shit.

VOTE: JamieT

[Jamiet99uk]

Scum is probably CommKnight, Awoo and one of Lucca or [insert lurkers here]

[Jamiet99uk]

Poor sportsmanship. If you're town, you can push a VIABLE lynch. But hey, you've been anti-town this far, so why not carry this through to make sure you aren't trying to be let off the hook like Quick was.

CommKnight:

- Likes manipulating the game mechanics to trap players into revealing their role in a manner that's regarded as cheating on other sites.

- Accuses someone else of poor sportsmanship.

What. Fucking. Ever.

[Jamiet99uk]

And what mechanics have I manipulated?

You scolded me for allegedly denying you the chance to do it. I already talked about this within last 2 pages. Go and read.

[Jamiet99uk]

That isn't manipulating mechanics or cheating. That's perception that it was a hammer vote and getting someone to confess.

I know, crazy. But it happens on this site.

Yes, it is manipulating the mechanics. It absolutely is.

[Jamiet99uk]

I've spent 13 days trying to help town while the likes of CommKnight and Eric stroke their egos and tell fairy tales. I'm self voting because we might as well end this phase now. My flip might at least give you some information. If you don't want me dead, vote for someone else.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think the next game you play should be a newbie.

Been in the Newbie game queue since early September and still waiting.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: Lalendra

This is an ok wagon for me.

@Awoo: I've put my name in the newbie game sign up thread, my name is listed in the P1 post where the queue is held, and I've exchanged PMs witg the penguin that runs the queue. What am I missing?

[Jamiet99uk]

have you tried double checking that P1 post where the queue is held?

Yeah. A game just started with me in it. Only took two whole months.

viewtopic.php?p=9718132#p9718132

[Jamiet99uk]

Has Chisa Yukizome posted in the last 3 or 4 days?

[Jamiet99uk]

Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.

[Jamiet99uk]

Bully all those who do not conform to our culture of peace and harmony

No such thing exists. Are you willing to answer my actual question, or are you confirmed scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Awoo, CommKnight, etc: Either you re-analyse my behaviour on the basis of the additional information I've now revealed, or you confirm you're not interested in solving the game or finding scum.

It should be 95%+ clear to everyone now that I'm not scum. I don't care if you like my attitude. I don't like yours.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Mod: Has Chisa been prodded lately or are they meeting the participation requirements?

[Jamiet99uk]

Can you just put yourself in V/LA and then not have to participate?

How does that work?

Is that what Awoo has been banking on?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm annoyed by so many things right now.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Aubrey: Re: Spoiler #2 - I never said it was against the rules *here* in this weird plane of existence. I said it was manipulating the game mechanics in an unsporting manner, which I absolutely stand by.

[Jamiet99uk]

"You're not breaking any rules by doing this because you're trying to gleam information in the pursuit of your win con within the game."

Hacking someone's password to read their role PM would be "not breaking the rules" if this is the only definition, btw.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: CommKnight

[Jamiet99uk]

Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.

CommKnight hasn't answered this. I would like an answer.

[Jamiet99uk]

Shit only 1 hour 30 left til EoD?

@Mod Vote Count pleez!

I think I'm on 4, CommKnight's on 4 or 5, Lalendra and Quick on 2 or 3 each...

[Jamiet99uk]

Anyone who isn't on me or CommKnight should really make a choice right about now.

For the defence, I'll point out that I've been honest about my gambit and ehy I was being unforthcoming earlier. I've answered all questions. Allegations made against me by CommKnight and Awoo are demonstrablu false.

For the prosecution, look at how CommKnight is refusing to look at new information and has locked in his read on me despite all that's been revealed and discussed since he did so. He sees me as an easy lynch since Awoo and Lalendra said they'd policy lynch me. Do you want to be on a wagon alongside people who *do not* scumread me and are just voting me because they find me abrasive?

[Jamiet99uk]

DAY HAS ENDED!

[Jamiet99uk]

Where is the Mod? Why wasn't there a Vote Count as EoD approached?

[Jamiet99uk]

Ahh ok. Whenever I mod a game, I make sure I'm online constantly for the two hours leading to EoD. So it looks like nobody was lynched. That's a shame as it deprives us of the information from the flip.

[Jamiet99uk]

Woohoo replacement number 6, in a 13-player game.

RIP Northsidegal, you did your best. That's a big loss because it means we're not only down a Mason, but we don't have a copscan now.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: quick

I bet a speedwagon here will make awoo jump off again

Another naked vote.

Let's see how many of these we get.

It wasn't a naked vote. He voted to see if Awoo would have the courage of her convictions. It says so right there in Flubber's post.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE: Awoo

[Jamiet99uk]

Seems like I'm being banned out of this game for some kind of rule violation.

Mafiascum is a shitty site. I'm leaving. Have your fun.