Open 695: Making Friends and Enemies [Mafia Win!]

[lucca261]

VOTE: CommKnight

hey people, what's up?

[lucca261]

VOTE: CommKnight

hey people, what's up?

I knew your name looked familiar. You were in that unpleasant Watchman game.

was that the one that Grey got force replaced and everybody was fighting everyone? I think I remember that. it made me quit mafia, for like, six months. so, how are ya? any reads so far?

VOTE: Cheeky

serious vote.

[lucca261]

yeah, not liking the last posts from jamie. I mean, 102 reads to me like: "look how townie I am, talking about our masons, the town masons" meh.

hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.

hey, comm, why would an experienced player like quick be afraid of a rvs lynch? I think you are trying to appear active. there was no need to make that post.

I like aubrey so far. and chisa.

[lucca261]

overall, I think a scum!jamie that would be concerned with the meta wouldn't be so defensive like he was with aubrey, so I don't like that explanation at least.

[lucca261]

because I think you are scum. who says I wanted a response.

you, on the other hand, wanted one. what response?

[lucca261]

can you explain your townread on cheeky, and scumread on me, jamiet? with your own words, I want to see how you got to this conclusion.

cheeky, 118: if I want to make a case on you, I'll do it. currently, there are other people on my line of thinking. so you're just saying you didn't have a case on me, since you didn't provide any reason, didn't engage me until I talked to you, and was expecting a response to a question you didn't provide. why were you wasting your vote, then?

overall, I don't get how people can have this crazy readlists so quickly. this game has been mostly theory, and abrasiveness. I don't see much from any player on any alignment, except for maybe scum!cheeky and town!aubrey. how can someone have these full readlists?

[lucca261]

let me get back in the game by making a quick "what I think of each player":

CommKnight: so, this guy has less content than assembler, right out of the gate. his only meaningful post is 103, where he comments on something NAI, in a unneeded post. no stances, no gamesolving. normally, this would be null (or at least I would meta him), at least on this phase of the game. but his 103 is very bad. I see nothing to gain out of the post. the only logical conlcusion to gain from that is that he needed to appear active. not liking his content, but before voting, I want him to come back.

Assembler: meh.

Jamie: yeah, I'm kinda of torn about his slot. he's using the newbie card a lot, more that I would like. when I was a newbie, the last thing I wanted was to people to point I was a newbie. he's using subtle language to point how he is a new player since the start, on things like 43, 71 and 128. and the mix of an apologetic approach, seen on 43, with an agressive approach, seen on the rest of his posts, especially against Aubrey, concerns me, and makes me think that the tone on 43 was the tone of a concerned player, that was using the newbie card to at least get more air, when he had five votes against him.
on the other hand, I think that the things he is questioning are ok, and I liked his response to me about why he scumreads me. I also don't think that a player that seems so eager to fit in with the meta would be such an eager scum player, with lot of posts and questions. so right now, I would say that the slot is on the complete middle to me.
question: what do you think of Maki vote/unvote on awoo?

Cheeky: the thing I didn't like from cheeky was at 58, right before I voted her slot. I can see you voting awoo to get us out of RVS. I just can't see what motivation someone would have to point that out. it nullifies any pressure you make on awoo, when you agree with Chisa that it's probably nothing. it only makes sense as a cheap excuse to get out of a failed push. you didn't use this just one time, you also gave the same explanation (I want Lucca to answer me) when pressured about your OMGUS on me. also, when you say you want a "response" from me on 87, I don't see you concerned with my alignment. I see you concerned about why I'm voting you and how can you defend yourself against that.

it's raining right here and I don't want to lose stuff so i'll post this and continue.

[lucca261]

northsidegal: hey, so, reading your posts, your vote should be on me. continuing: I think northside is town. regardless of how wrong she is, her posts show me she's trying to create content, purposeful content, and is trying to scumhunt. I like her discussions with Maki, which I thought was a reasonable discussion, in which north was trying to present her point without misrepping what maki was saying. it says to me that she believes in what she's writing.
171: i'm not so keen on this post, but I can see where she's coming from. my point is that stating "my vote is a reaction test with OMGUS and I want a reaction" would give me the option to ignore the vote and just continue playing, because, of course, it's not a serious vote. this, combined with the lack of pressure, not to react, but to talk (cheeky only asked me something when pressured by other players to do so) makes cheeky vote useless. when I ask her what response, I'm trying to see what she gained from voting me. what changed between then and now.

maki: I don't see what people are seeing about Maki slot. in fact I think her catchup is pretty townie. maki is questioning stuff she didn't like and advancing game state. I also like her votes on awoo. the only comment from her I don't like is one from the post 159, about chisa. I don't see the need about asking this, and I don't see how someone reading up on the game would have this as a question.
question: explain your unvote. I don't see cheeky jumping on awoo anywhere.

lalendra: I did not know that this person was on the game until I started making this post. overall, I liked her questions. waiting more from the slot before giving a more coherent thought.

quick: I'm liking quick posts. no bullshit, just reacting to things around him. his reads and thought process seem to align with mine, so I think he is reading things from a town perspective. I like the jump from 144 to 150 about Jamie. it's a reasonable reaction to have considering Jamie response to that question.

aubrey: I'm also liking aubrey posts. his answer to me on 79 was one of the best posts at the game, at the time. I think Aubrey is trying to look for scum, and I agree with 109. level-headed player. townlean for me.
question: what do you thought about jamie explanation of the readlist?

will post chisa/fial/awoo later.

[lucca261]

let me get back in the game by making a quick "what I think of each player":

Jamie: yeah, I'm kinda of torn about his slot. he's using the newbie card a lot, more that I would like. when I was a newbie, the last thing I wanted was to people to point I was a newbie. he's using subtle language to point how he is a new player since the start, on things like 43, 71 and 128. and the mix of an apologetic approach, seen on 43, with an agressive approach, seen on the rest of his posts, especially against Aubrey, concerns me, and makes me think that the tone on 43 was the tone of a concerned player, that was using the newbie card to at least get more air, when he had five votes against him.
on the other hand, I think that the things he is questioning are ok, and I liked his response to me about why he scumreads me. I also don't think that a player that seems so eager to fit in with the meta would be such an eager scum player, with lot of posts and questions. so right now, I would say that the slot is on the complete middle to me.
question: what do you think of Maki vote/unvote on awoo?

Good question. Maki's vote on Awoo wasn't very well explained. It seemed to just be a vote because Maki thought Awoo's comment to me was a bit shitty, rather than necessarily scummy. So I wasn't that surprised when Maki was unvoted - didn't appear a very sincere vote in the first place.

so, if it wasn't a sincere vote, what's your opinion on maki slot?

[lucca261]

it didn't seem like you were around, so i thought i'd use my vote a bit more productively. like i said, pretty happy with the outcome of that. you say that explicitly saying your vote is a reaction test defeats the purpose (and i agree), but did cheeky really do that? assuming we're both talking about 72, all she said was "serious omgus vote". you could take it that any vote that explicitly announces omgus isn't serious, but i would say it could also be used as just a term for voting the person who just voted you. you could just ignore the vote, but like i said in 171, choosing not to react is still a reaction in itself. not sure i get your point on "lack of pressure to talk". someone voting you usually necessitates some kind of answer. if you're trying to make the point that cheeky's lack of follow-up questions makes the vote useless, i'm not sure i agree. i guess a big problem i have with you is this interaction here:

Spoiler:

hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.

hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Why did you naked vote me?

because I think you are scum. who says I wanted a response.

you, on the other hand, wanted one. what response?

you're not being forthcoming here, and i don't think it shows town-motivation. it's not always bad to secretive with your reads or the reasons, but here you make it seem as if you know for a fact that cheeky is scum and you don't need any further evidence or reactions. why not elaborate on why you scumread cheeky? why would you not want a response from voting someone? if you believe cheeky is scum then certainly you would want to convince other people, so why be so quiet in your confidence? the reason i would suspect from your meta is because you plan to point out all the reasons later, without giving scum a chance to change their behavior mid-day, but i haven't really seen that yet. 208 doesn't entirely satisfy that for me, so unless there's something spectacular later i think i'll keep my eye on you.

cheeky really did that, and she say it herself on 87, when pressured by quick. openly saying she wants a response from me = openly saying her vote is a reaction test. my point is: if cheeky wanted to have a response from me, putting a vote on my slot and then saying she wants a response is counter productive, it redirects the discussion away from why I voted her. she could've, you know, just asked.

there was nothing spetacular, it was my first non-rvs vote, on page 5. I don't need a full case on somebody. my reasons for voting her were expressed on post 206. at the time, it was the scummiest thing on the game. so I voted her. I never said I know for a fact that cheeky is scum. in fact, I quote: "because I think you are scum". where did I say I know she is scum or that I don't need evidence? I was engaging with her at that moment. I was furthering my read at that moment.

so, let's talk: what's my motivation as scum to accuse cheeky without any reasons here?

[lucca261]

@awoo, 227: it mattered if I had a reason. there's no scum motivation to post, it's non-alignment indicative. so when people accuse me for it, i'll defend myself. don't you think it's possible to catch scum on the start of the game? why would something be less or more scummy at the start of the game?

I like that Epic seems to be contributing and scumhunting. I don't like that he seems to specifically focus on Jamie, going out of his way to get stuff from the start of D1. good scumhunt, but feels manufactured. can I get a readlist, mr. fial?

@comm, 246: how you doing? why did you vote awoo in special, since it's a random gut read? you could've gone pressure any other of the three slots.

cheeky vote on fial seems cheap as well, but I'll wait before talking more of it.

again with the problematic tone, in contrast with the eager-to-please jamie from the start of the game. what changed? @jamie.

thinking awoo is scum. this last post feels like someone who is trying to participate, rather than trying to scumhunt.

[lucca261]

VOTE: CommKnight

@fial, read on awoo?

[lucca261]

I think both could very well be scum. I don't see why not?

do you think they couldn't be both scum?

---

I posted an almost full readlist a couple of pages ago. read it, come back and talk to me.

[lucca261]

Having re-read Awoo I no longer scumread him (not her, sorry it was the female picture). Awoo seems to be looking carefully at people's reactions which is good scumhunting play. I particularly agree with this response to Lucca261. It's egregiously scummy to want to know what people think you would do or say as scum (so you can later avoid doing or saying things that will get you scumread).

VOTE: UNVOTE until I can properly reread Lucca.

explain to me why wanting to avoid being scumread is a scum move, instead of survivalist town one. also, this is not what my phrase meant. it was a rhetorical question, there was no motivation for me to do that play as scum, as northside was pushing me about it.

---

Fial: 304 - expected more from the Fial return. more in depth reads, as he did for Jamie, instead of just naked reads.

hey, Maki, you wanted a readslist from me. what's your reaction to my readlist? seems scummy for you to ask for a readslist, and then ignore when I answer you.

hey, Comm, since you're the read master, can I get a full readlist? like, from town to scum, or a tiered one?

---

Lalendra posting seems a little spotty and convenient, with obvious interjections mixed with theory talk. so she's kinda of a scumlean for me at the moment.

Awoo stepped up his posting, and is back to being a null read. I liked his IC post on Lalendra, and he is pushing people, and trying to create game content.

not sure if I buy Comm posting. it's definitely an impressive resume, but him posting that exact resume as scum and making people sheep him is extraordinary easy. happy with my vote still on him. he has zero detailed reads and a lot of his posting could come as either alignment.

Aubrey is getting a little bland to me. whenever I interact with him, I come back thinking he is town, but when unquestioned, he's kinda one note on pushing Jamie so far. so back to null too.

[lucca261]

Lucca261 has made 13 posts.

First was a shitphase joke vote on CommKnight. Second was his "serious vote" schtick on Cheeky. Some sort of rxn test, we suppose, but in the conversation in 113 and 117 he says it wasn't and he apparently knew Cheeky was scum for sure, that early (without explanation).

Post 139 doesn't know how anyone can have strong reads (and yet 22 posts before that he was sure of his scumread on Cheeky).

Up to that point - pretty hedgy and scummy.

Then from 208 onwards we get some more detailed, less abrasive posts from Lucca which seem more inquisitive and involved. His questioning of me seems reasonable - and he finally explains his early push on Cheeky.

@Lucca: Why did it take until 203 to explain why you scumread Cheeky on 59?

I like naked votes and I don't like making cases so early on the game. why does it matter when I explain it? I explained it and pushed my case.

[lucca261]

Also, Lucca, please give some commentary on why you said in Post 139 that you were amazed anyone had any reads, and yet before that you'd been super-sure of your scumread on Cheeky. Tell us about that apparent inconsistency please?

I'll explain something to you: sometimes, for pressure to work, you got to be confident. my scumread on cheeky was not a super scumread, but for her to believe, I got to express confidence. if I say: "I suspect cheeky a little", how seriously does she think my vote is?

that's not to say I didn't scumread cheeky. I did, and still do.

that said, the biggest problem on your post is that either you're lying or you're dense.

overall, I don't get how people can have this crazy readlists so quickly. this game has been mostly theory, and abrasiveness. I don't see much from any player on any alignment, except for maybe scum!cheeky and town!aubrey. how can someone have these full readlists?

how can you read this sentence and think I had been super-sure of my scumread on cheeky? I literally say, on the same sentence you referenced, I don't see much from any player on any alignment, except for maybe scum!cheeky and town!aubrey. I'm here, casting doubt on the scumread you had proclaimed as super-sure.

[lucca261]

@Lucca: Tell me more about naked votes and why you like them?

it's quick and it creates content. sometimes you can even apply pressure with them. what's not to like?

[lucca261]

Solid. I know where I want to go.

VOTE: Lucca

This slot is fabricating and fluffing all over the place. Pushing meh content onto the lurkers, and is just really spouting stuff. I see a lot of people town read players like these, a la Brian Skies. It’s rather strong because even when they are pressured they easily can brush it off and hide behind their wall posts, which people generally want to town read, but are extremely easy to fake as scum in practice. I can link a giant wall post I’ve made as scum before, multiple, but I have one in mind. Scum typically like to fantasize about potential things, so they can make a case based on all hypotheticals, which helps “explain” why certain people are scum. Wall posts also help scum keep track of their reads and whatnot, and they can just build their fabricated trajectories on top of each other, like a waffle, where some pockets have less syrup in them, but others overflow. You can see the emptier, less soggy parts of the waffle, and then put the syrup where it’s needed.

let's go:

fabricating and fluffing all over the place

the fabricating issue is relative, but I'll ask for specific moments where you think I fabricated stuff. the fluff issue is strange. I don't see any stances of fluff on my posting. I've been direct and all my posts are related to the game.

Pushing meh content onto the lurkers

false. my first serious vote was on cheeky, who at the point was one of the most proactive posters in relation to quantity. I've had back and forths with jamie and north also. I've been pushing anyone at anytime, when I see scumminess. question for you: who are the lurkers of the game? list them, because I'm curious: who isn't lurking? quick, jamie and maybe awoo? because I've pushed two of those three.

---

the rest of this post is either not related to me/non alignment indicative (spouting stuff). the wall style-posting is relative, I do it as either alignment, as you can easily find out looking at my meta. when I started answering this, I thought it was more, truthfully. not impressed with this case. will wait the bigger case on me.

regardless, I'd say the entrance was right in the middle of the town-scum spectrum. the towny part is: he comes guns-blazing, pushing people who weren't pressured, commentating on stuff that wasn't commentated, with clear reads. that said, his case on me was all relative, cluttered with buzzwords not related to my posts, and a major part of it is theory talk. I'd also like to know where my case based only on hypotheticals is.

[lucca261]

Fair enough.

I don’t like Maki’s and Lucca’s back and forth a few pages back. Something about it’s weird to me.
The whole both could be scum/one of them likely is scum seems like theatre bailing each other out, and allowing both onto multiple mislynches with reasoning, while distancing away from each other.

Scum typically like to fantasize about potential things, so they can make a case based on all hypotheticals, which helps “explain” why certain people are scum.

hmm.

[lucca261]

383, 384, 386, @awoo: those three sentences ping me wrong. a new, strong player comes to play. awoo reaction to his entrance? a half buddy-buddy, half agreement to his theory part, but that does not clarify what is his stance on his game related posts. the tone is different from agressive awoo, too.

aubrey is more defending me than attacking flavor, where are people seeing chainsaw?

not sure if I like Chisa readlist a lot. she/he (not sure, sorry) sets up a way she can go either way on me, and there is not one explained confident read on there.

404, @flavor: how so? just got curious, nothing game related.

Maybe you can tell us why you like naked votes but not naked reads? Another player has replaced in since my last post. Seems like a backward noob. One who might help crack the case if his heart is pure. Now how do you feel about that slot?

naked reads mean shit if they're not accompanied by pressure, it's a way that people can skate through the game and the pressure of giving reads. naked votes, otherwise, can pressure people (not always), and creates content inherently. I've talked about flavor on my other post. read on awoo, fial?

407, @maki: quote one LAMIST post made by me, please. people can accuse me of a lot of things, but LAMIST? ehh. this catchup is pretty ehh. gone for that long of a time and this is what you talk about?

stop talking about the masons nothing good can come out of this.

[lucca261]

UNVOTE:

[lucca261]

V/LA for the next 2 days

when I get back, that big post by flavor on me should be done.

[lucca261]

getting caught up. back from V/LA.

[lucca261]

regardless, I'd say the entrance was right in the middle of the town-scum spectrum. the towny part is: he comes guns-blazing, pushing people who weren't pressured, commentating on stuff that wasn't commentated, with clear reads. that said, his case on me was all relative, cluttered with buzzwords not related to my posts, and a major part of it is theory talk. I'd also like to know where my case based only on hypotheticals is.

This is what most interested me in the response. I haven't completely read the thread here, not gonna lie. It was just skim reads and what caught my eye on the initial read through.

This being said, what buzzwords did I clutter my posts with? This is very interesting use of words, because I don't believe I used buzz words. In fact, my description of that playstyle even shocked someone on thinking the playstyle was foolproof.

I even brought up an interaction between you and another player that felt really off to me, which you failed to bring up.

All this being said, this is yet another fluffy and fabricated read because you put yourself in a perfect position to either A) town read me if I accept your response and move on, or B) Scum read me if I choose to push you further.

Also, I don't really care where you vote is/was. You pushed Cheeky. Cheeky is the highest poster you stated, correct? Easy way to go. I cared more for the underlying pushes you've been making on other players, where you are setting yourself for that tree branch of yours to grow the way you want/need it to. This is how the majority of your reads are. Open ended, even if it's a "strong read", you allow yourself to go either way, like you are playing a popularity game, not looking for scum.

the buzzwords: fabricating/fluffing/fabricating trajectories (waffle): you say I'm doing this, but you provide zero examples. that, my friend, is to clutter a post with unexplained buzzwords. I feel like you're using this to make your read feel fuller, and that is my problem with your read on me. especially the fluff one. outside of one assumed fluff post, my content has been exceptionally direct and to the point. I don't see how you came to conclusion my posts were fluff. and there are people subtly agreeing with you, calling my posts fluff as well. I would like examples.

what felt off about my interaction with Maki? Maki was a townread of mine. I had found that a comment she made on my readlists was strange, to say the least. I was doubting my reads, and was wanting to engage with her, so I could learn more about her slot. think, flavor.

I townread you, with how people reacted to your read on me. it brought a lot of people out of the woodworks with their scumleans on me. that's scum sheeping a town player wrong read.

so you expect me to tunnel someone until he/she is lynched?

[lucca261]

@maki, 470: maki, can I get a readlist, something? I have no idea where your head is.

cheeky's 463 feels fake in contrast with her lack of reaction to the CommKnight readlist. The way I read it was: she wants to write her read on Jamie, but didn't want to state only this read, so she wanted Jamie to ask her for it. clearly trying to misdirect the possible lynch.

Fial 486 feels informed. hmm. let's fight bro

that said, I like Maki posts on page 20. I think she truly believes on her cheeky scumread, and I can see where she's coming from.

---

so, the wagon on awoo: I don't like it so much. 468 in special is a weird post. as scum, you would want to create a narrative. awwo wouldn't need such a convoluted reason to jump on the jamie wagon if he's scum, given how scummy his slot has been. I expected more from northside than just jumping on one post, without stating any more reads. feels opportunistic, like he was waiting "that" scummy post to create his wagon on awoo. I like jamie/quick votes on it, though. consistent.

VOTE: CommKnight

confortable with my vote being back on Mr. Ego himself. I'm going to need more than gut reads and accusations on the biggest wagon from you.

Lalendra unvoting of Jamie feels off. her whole game feels off, like she's holding back something. i'm still expecting a big breakthrough from her slot.

quick is not getting lynched, get off him. his wagon is so bad, holy shit.

@flavor, read on nsg last posts?

[lucca261]

I like Aubrey catchup post a lot. back to the townpile. question for you: what do you think of the end of Jamie being the hot wagon, going directly to Quick?

look at this, from NSG: 565: she's not worried one bit about the game. she's letting other people push quick and get the backlash from it, while being at the wagon. this is scum, keeping their options open, while hopping from wagon to wagon. not one clear read, bland.

@lalendra, 569: look at Lalendra wanting an easy reason to vote quick, when she's getting some pressure.

@jamie, 572: can you explain the following reads?: north, maki and chisa?

@jamie, 580: name your post. point to it. I don't like this one bit.

[lucca261]

let's do a quick readlist, more to organize my own thoughts:

-TOWN-
Quick
Aubrey
Maki
Flavor
Awoo
Chisa
Fial
Jamie
Lalendra
Cheeky
Comm
North
-SCUM-

[lucca261]

feel free to question anything from my readlist, people

---

northsidega
Lalendra
Awoo Jamiet99uk
Aubrey
Chisa Yukizome CheekyTeeky lucca261
Flavor Leaf Epic Fial
Quick CommKnight

is where I'm at atm

how is north town? how is flavor scum?

[lucca261]

i've been using a different interpretation of fluff from you since the beginning, then.

for me, fluff: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

[lucca261]

VOTE: Lalendra

[lucca261]

not really feeling this CommKnight lynch. having doubts on the wagon. Jamie is voting him 'cause he doesn't like him, Fial is wanting Comm to OMGUS him and I don't even remember why Chisa is voting him.

the Quick lynch feels manufactured too, and it's on a top townread of mine. the start of the wagon was really weird with the whole awoo L-1 vote, and Lalendra/Maki jumping on him at the last time make me question both wagons. I'm currently thinking both are on town.

let's quick lynch Lalendra.

[lucca261]

I'll hammer CommKnight if it comes to this.

[lucca261]

meh, Jamie is probably scum.

@jamie, 580: name your post. point to it. I don't like this one bit.

answer.

[lucca261]

stop with the bullshit, maki.

quick, stop townreading jamie.

What makes you want to lynch me over Maki, since you say we both "jumped on" the Quick wagon?

I had issues with your posting before your hop on. Maki was a townlean for some time, null for some time. What do you think of my unvote? I see you posting and commenting on stuff, but no clear stances. Time to play, lennie.

[lucca261]

I'm pretty sure that the reason Quick is townreading is false. Not the reason itself, but the motive of the read.

Jamie townread is worse. He clearly is townreading Quick to try to appease him or something. The first post he likes from Quick is the one where Quick proclaims Jamie's town, for fucks sake.

[lucca261]

let's talk about the last pages:

quick's readlist, and "case" on awoo feels manufactured by me. I have no problem with having awoo as a scumread. I myself go back and forth on this slot. Even if I agree with some of his points, I don't like him stating ALL Awoo posts are scummy, and a participative player like him would've reacted to them if he thought this at the time of the post. I just don't know if it's scummy or just survivalistic town.

that said, I'm still not willing to lynch him tonight. I would like to lynch between the people that, confronted with the almost certainty that today would be either Quick/either CommKnight, have decided to stay on the sidelines, their content have turned to "enter, push their wanted lynch softly, leave". I'm talking about Jamie. at least Lalendra is pushing and questioning people. since Jamie has voted CommKnight, check his ISO. no more in depth posts, no more reads other than Quick/Comm, and no more proactive content. he became one note, and his activity fell down a lot. this is scum. 703, 704, 727 and 728 are the only non-answer posts from him during that time. two shit posts, and two posts furthering his wanted lynch.

flubber also seemss like he is happy with whoever gets lynched.

let's just quick lynch jamie? lalendra also is a good option.

[lucca261]

@jamie, do you townread me? because your read on my slot seems to change to further your narrative.

[lucca261]

quick would've claimed if he was a mason by now. just hammer if you want, jamie.

don't wait for approval to do it.

[lucca261]

I would love a Jamie lynch today. In fact, I won't be here in the deadline, so this is probably my last post today:

VOTE: Jamie. vote it, quick, there are no reason whatsoever you can think it's a town slot. no reason.

look at this reaction to the fake hammer. look at how he wants to be excused for the hammer he was about to do. he knew quick was flipping town. his 790 is just making that not so obvious.

[lucca261]

why am I being voted again? doesn't matter, it's not happening.

let's go where we should've gone last day:

VOTE: Lalendra

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I love how Lalendra and Awoo immediately accepted Comm sugestion, of lynching outside of the potential mislynches, never once stopping to think that Comm could've scum intentions to post that. That, combined with my prior suspicions about Lalendra, makes me sure that she should be the vote for today. And North was a probable member on a Lalendra wagon today, even if people does not associate this fact with North. If I'm suddenly not lazy, I might very well make a big case on her. But for this point, this is enough.

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hey, Jamie, where's all your content? and was that a naked vote? a naked vote, jamie? we had discussions about that.

[lucca261]

so, since we're both here, why are you voting me again? I don't think you had stated your opinion on me since the start. Is it that you wanted to use Comm's theory so that you would keep yourself out of the lynchpool?

state your reasons.

[lucca261]

I think Comm is right, yesterday we got pretty distracted by Comm v Quick and even if there is scum there, we still have 2 others to find. I like where his head is at, and my confidence was shaken by a recent resounding loss, so I'll sheep this.

VOTE: lucca

You can infer and misrep all you want but I literally stated my reasons prior to voting you. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant, they are there.

I'll ask. Why do you think I'm scum? Your words, please.

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@flub, 936: maybe. I would like the wagon on me evolve, to see the progressions and who will vote me/who won't. Currently, Awoo vote sucks, but it can't be four scum on my wagon, right? So I'll wait right now. questions: what do you think of Lalendra?/what's your read on my slot?

@quick, 940: agree that her lack of explanations could be a meta question. what is scummy, regardless of meta, is her convenient posts and opinions. she is going with the flow of the game. her votes are Jamie (when he was the biggest wagon), Quick (when you were the biggest wagon, after asking for reasons to vote him = a reason to easily sheep) and me (when I am the popular wagon). she is keeping her options open with hyper soft opinions and easy questions, as seen in 202, 671, 706. Her interactions with Comm are also strange, as she's sheeping his opinions and stating them again.
It's not a strong case, but it's what I have at the moment.

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I would say there's at least one scum on me. The only players with explicit reads on me before today were Flavor, Quick and maybe Comm. It's an easy vote for scum, because they can hide in ambiguity and easily sheep a confident player such as Comm, taking themselves out of his suspicion now. Sadly for them, I'm not going down without a fight.

[lucca261]

better figure out fast lovely

I find this response interesting. No defensiveness at all. Hm.

@Comm - It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Though I find it interesting that I am scumread a lot more for it than Comm appears to be. Guess I have to be more aggressively confident.

why do you think that is? the Maki quote, I guess.

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I could go Awoo. her vote is also bad, and a lot of what I said about Lalendra can be applied to him. But I think his day 1 was stronger. But he is definitely not a townread of mine.

[lucca261]

let's re-read this D1.

[lucca261]

before re-reading, let's say I don't like that Maki post. feels like scum using knowledge to gain towncred.

[lucca261]

CommKnight, Awoo and Lalendra have been voting together since day 1. Their targets: me, Jamie and Quick. Two confirmed town targets and one hard townread, especially after re-reading D1.

There's definitely scum at this group. Maybe more than one.

[lucca261]

I'll just say that Chisa is the least impactful player I've seen on a game, for a long time. It's one thing to be lurking, it's another to have zero posts that present an impact on the game. No votes on her, too.

[lucca261]

so, tonight we should be lynching between the big mislynch voting block.

over the three, I'm thinking that Comm is town, for reasons I'm not saying at the moment. I honestly think that it can't be as easy as the three of them being scum. I'll say that tonight it should be between Lalendra and Awoo.

---

aubrey, what do you think of wagoning awoo?

fial, what's your thoughts on this?

flub, what do you think of wagoning lalendra?

[lucca261]

scum better kill me.

[lucca261]

that's why I thought you were the towniest on the post above that. knew that your vote wasn't serious.

unvote, comm. maki is not the way to go.

[lucca261]

that's why I thought you were the towniest on the post above that. knew that your vote wasn't serious.

unvote, comm. maki is not the way to go.

though that wasn't so hard to realize.

[lucca261]

if things had gone just a little differently we could have this game solved right now, that's so annoying.

[lucca261]

let's play this again.

[lucca261]

Can you raise me up off neutral? It’ll help me see you as townie.

weren't you going to make a case on me? come on big dawg, time to come out and play.

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1008, @Aubrey: who you were talking about on the last point? awoo? if so, yes, he did scumread me, but softly enough that he could keep his options open. he didn't engage with me, never wrote a definite read, just soft play around me overall.

1916, @Lalendra: she's seeing stuff from the same point of view that I am, this tells me she's looking at stuff from a townie POV. other than that, she is constantly engaging people and asking questions, and I think she truly believes what she is posting. a couple of scummy comments here and there, but a townread overall. what's your read on her?

comm, I could go for a Flavor wagon, what do you think?

[lucca261]

Are you only going to entertain low hanging fruit wagons

is this directed to me? if so, what wagon do you suggest? by the way, not voting Quick.

[lucca261]

since Lalendra became the premium wagon today, a lot of people are trying to point to another direction, to misdirect the lynch without defending her slot. I find this very, let's use the right word, interesting.

overall, the deadness of the game is because of the configuration. Awoo needs to be replaced, Fial is hard lurking, Chisa and Flavor are promising to contribute since D1, Lalendra and Maki disappeared...without Jamie and Awoo creating discussion, the game became analytical.

[lucca261]

so this is kind of a prodge, but today I'm full with work and tomorrow I'll play.

[lucca261]

what did you want of that, lalendra? what was your thought process?

so, she is still probably scum. if Lalendra was town, I expect that scum would be all over that wagon. it would be an easy wagon created by town. Aubrey and Maki are two of the towniest slots on the game. not happening. scum are probably going wagon to wagon, trying to gauge town willingness, trying to get that townie vote to build a wagon.

hey, known15, how about you give more reads than aubrey and fial? flavor is probably scum, though.

not sure if I like Aubrey posts on the start of this page, but we got to start to build townreads and he's currently voting with me so I'll let this pass.

[lucca261]

my wagon died so fast when the ringleader bolted out of it.

a replace out, a guy who didn't even remember why he voted me and Lalendra unvoting in silence. if you, townie, don't think there's scum there, think again.

[lucca261]

1083 followed by 1084

trying to get that counterwagon on town.

[lucca261]

that vote concerns me.

[lucca261]

Aubrey and Maki are two of the towniest slots on the game. not happening.

not sure if I like Aubrey posts on the start of this page, but we got to start to build townreads and he's currently voting with me so I'll let this pass.

.


This feels like two separate reads..."Aubrey, one of the towniest slots / Well he's currently voting alongside me and we gotta start somewhere"

--

Disregarding my 1101, why is everyone so bothered of me asking them to start helping to generate wagons vs. individualized votes we've mainly been seeing today? I'm not asking people to abandon their suspicions, but rather asking them to move on to the next suspicion with their vote so that we can generate wagons, see how they build and feel, and see where they take us for wagon analysis later on. If everyone stays on their individualized vote, all we will likely get is a panic or rushed shift of votes close to days end due to stubbornness. Maybe some wagons would appear before then, but why not try and accelerate that process, especially after yesterdays no lynch?

I townread you. I didn't like your confusion on the page, because I was getting paranoid and you saying that It was Lalendra x Comm could've been a way of misdirecting people to these two lynches.

The end is: hey, we got to start to trust people and stop getting paranoid, you're still town to me given you strong posting and position on the game.

[lucca261]

how about more thoughts on other people?

[lucca261]

let's talk business:

- paranoia is starting to pile up. seeing more scummy slots join the wagon is expected, but Chisa and Epic with me feel strange.
- another instance of paranoia: when scummy scummy flavor opposes the wagon, I'll never know if it is scum defending his partner/scum gauging up doubt

some final reads for today:

- town: I'm town, quick is 99% town, aubrey is probtown
- townlean: maki and comm
- null: epic and flub
- scumlean: chisa and nk15
- scum: lalendra and flavor, who knows

I was really feeling it earlier D2, couple days passed I'm not sure anymore, so there's that.

[lucca261]

sorry for this, but I'm full with work again and won't be here at 100% until thursday.

it's hard.

once I get back, I'll improve on this motherfucking game. thanks.

[lucca261]

I'm back. Let's finish my D2 re-read and I'll talk.

[lucca261]

hey, comm didn't you have a big case to do on those three pairs of associative tells? I kinda wanna see your theory.

aubrey page 48 feels manufactured. how quickly he misdirected to Chisa her own suspicion. makes me paranoid.

in fact, I'm fucking paranoid all over. I have this gut feeling that I know exactly the scumteam and I'm not going to focus on them.

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Spoiler:

D2 Lynch - I

Quick (?? 3) - Awoo (town), Flub (??), Lalendra (town)
Flub (?? 1) - Maki (??)
Lucca (Town 1) - Comm (??)

D2 Lynch - II

Awoo (Town 1) - Jamie (town)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Flub (?? 1) - Maki (??)
Lucca (Town 4) - Comm (??), Lalendra (town), Awoo (town), Flavor (??)
Lalendra (Town 1) - Lucca (town)

D2 Lynch - III

Awoo (Town 2) - Jamie (town), Quick (??)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Lucca (Town 4) - Comm (??), Lalendra (town), Awoo (town), Flavor (??)
Lalendra (Town 3) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Maki (??)

D2 Lynch - IV

Awoo (Town 1) - Quick (??)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Lucca (Town 4) - Comm (??), Lalendra (town), Awoo (town), Flavor (??)
Lalendra (Town 3) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Maki (??)
Comm (?? 1) - Fial (??)

D2 Lynch - V

Awoo (Town 1) - Quick (??)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Lucca (Town 3) - Lalendra (town), Awoo (town), Flavor (??)
Lalendra (Town 3) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Maki (??)
Comm (?? 1) - Fial (??)
Maki (?? 1) - Comm (??)

D2 Lynch - VI

NK15 (Town 1) - Quick (??)
Chisa (?? 1) - Flavor (??)
Quick (?? 2) - Flub (??), Lalendra (town)
Fial (?? 1) - NK15 (town)
Lalendra (Town 3) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Maki (??)
Comm (?? 1) - Fial (??)
Maki (?? 1) - Comm (??)

D2 Lynch - VII

NK15 (Town 1) - Lalendra (town)
Chisa (?? 2) - Flavor (??), Comm (??)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Flub (?? 1) - Maki (??)
Fial (?? 1) - NK15 (town)
Lalendra (Town 5) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Quick (??), Chisa (??), Fial (??)
Comm (?? 1) - Fial (??)

D2 Lynch - VIII

NK15 (Town 1) - Lalendra (town)
Chisa (?? 3) - Flavor (??), Comm (??), NK15 (town)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Flub (?? 1) - Maki (??)
Lalendra (Town 5) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Quick (??), Chisa (??), Fial (??)

D2 Lynch - VII

NK15 (Town 1) - Lalendra (town)
Chisa (?? 2) - Flavor (??), NK15 (town)
Quick (?? 1) - Flub (??)
Flub (?? 1) - Maki (??)
Lalendra (Town 6) - Lucca (town), Aubrey (??), Quick (??), Chisa (??), Fial (??), Comm (??)

this is my vote count checker that I made for D1 and D2. I'm putting the D2 one because reveals shit and I was kinda tired of thinking about it. the one interesting movimentation can be seen in the VII spot. before that, D2 was a crapshoot with several small wagons and no real focus. three new players voted Lalendra from VI from VII. knowing it was a mislynch, there's definitely scum there. the only movement other than quick/chisa/fial jumping on Lalendra is Maki starting a wagon on Flub and Comm voting Chisa.

the point being: scum wasn't being threatened. there was no clear reason for the pile up on Lalendra. what I think about it is that there's definitely 1 scum off the wagon, maybe even 2. but the D1 chart is much more interesting. tomorrow I'll put it.

so this post is kinda shit, but kinda not.

[lucca261]

huh. I could go for Flub. but this was really fast.

[lucca261]

I'm curious overall at how people will react to this, though.