Mini Normal 1951 [Game Over]
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I joined a while ago but seemed like I could never get into a game. Not many in signupsIn post 2475, acidphoenix wrote:mu normal games are 36 hour days lol
hard to follow happens but is a only-sign-up-if-you-have-the-time thingI love MUFFINS!!!- acidphoenix
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shhhhIn post 2478, Michael22Omega wrote:And Acid
You need to town read me right one time
To say you scum read me right
Because you literally scum read me every game
You don't even give a reason it's like your insta vote- Michael22Omega
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You need to join a mention list and than you'll be mentioned when turbos happenIn post 2479, Apple Jack wrote:
I joined a while ago but seemed like I could never get into a game. Not many in signupsIn post 2475, acidphoenix wrote:mu normal games are 36 hour days lol
hard to follow happens but is a only-sign-up-if-you-have-the-time thing- acidphoenix
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Alisae lolbalance
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mastina She/HerFalse Prophet
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Depends on what you mean exactly. Town should truthfully claim when it is pertinent to do so. Mechanics-wise, the game was swingy, but balanced as could be. The mafia were never in a position where role-wise they held a superior advantage (the only reason they held that was play, in that competent scum + incompetent town = obvious result), nor did the town have a position where role-wise they would have held a superior advantage.In post 2406, reaverb wrote:Curious how you think Town should play with mechanics/claiming.
The game had a lot of possible outcomes, yet town and scum stood equal chances of winning. Scum didn't have counters to every town power role. In fact, the town power could fuck them over easily. (Watcher catching strongman, strongman failing to kill the commuter.) The town had significant help. The scum had just enough power to mitigate that. It overall from a balance perspective worked out to be loosely, when you counteract one side's extras with the others, to the formula all games adhere to:
Town havingsomebase power when the scum have none. Then, simply making equivalent exchanges when adding to both sides. (Extra town power meant scum getting power, and/or scum getting power meant town got extra power.)
It's personally not my favorite type of setup. The more roles you introduce into a game, the more swingy it is. But it was stillbalanced. And since Mulch wanted the PR-heavy game, he had every right to run it so long as it was so.- Michael22Omega
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oooh right and I was like I remember you were there but didn't see your name you were under alt
Ye that's too
And yeh lol- acidphoenix
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Scum do not, I repeat, do NOT need a counter to every town power role.In post 2488, Michael22Omega wrote:mastina I feel like we didn't have enough power to counter power role but since it's mafia scum seeing how people play here it's not that hard to trick town
Towns need power roles to win. Because mountainous games are hilariously, hilariously scumsided.
So town get some level of base power. The general formula is somewhere around 3-4 reasonable-strength town PRs vs. all-goon scumteam, thereabouts. (Maybe one weak scum PR.) That is the golden balance standard of a mafiascum Mini Normal game.
This game had a (gated) Jailkeeper (Jailkeeper is one of the strongest town roles in Normals), ascetic Innocent Child, 2x Vigilante (second town-controlled kill, twice to get game back on odds, and is conftown because scum vigs are blacklisted), day-neighborizer (neighborizers are considered net-null balance wise: they add zero to the town and are thus balanced appropriately), 2x-commuter (commuters are immune to all actions, even strongmen, but otherwise add nothing), and an ungated Watcher (another power-town-role).
That is a lot of power, yes.
...BUT.
-All town roles worth anything save the watcher were gated.
-The jailkeeper has zero synergy with the Vigilante
-The jailkeeper and commute conflict with one another
-The jailkeeper has almost zero synergy with the Watcher
-The Innocent Child was easily killable
-Commuter is not a role which is likely to stop scum kills especially when gated
-The scum had a strongman, thereby effectively removing most of the utility in the jailkeeper which was already gated
-The scum had a neapolitan to identify roles, which also doubled as a safeclaim in that it fit neatly within the setup (given that the town had no investigatives this game, the neapolitan if claiming would be seen as town). Among other points.
So what you're effectively left with is three gated roles which have low synergy, one star role which can still be fucked with (Watcher), and one role which is only a marginal boost (Innocent Child). It's stronger than a typical town, but the lack of real combos is detrimental. The closest to a potential combo is the watcher watching either the vig or the jailkeeper. If the game were to leananydirection, it'd be towards scumsidedness. Not townsidedness.- mastina
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Also you said it yourself: scum had a perfect victory this game.
That, in of itself, is pretty good evidence the setup wasn't stupendously townsided, no? Obviously town can win a scumsided game; scum can win a townsided game.
But people across many, many, many Normal games keep on complaining about balance in this same way. Complaining it's scumsided when town won, complaining it's townsided when scum won, and I'm just looking at it and going. "...Okayyyyyy."- Alisae
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mastina I feel like a lot of the balance complaints are coming from MU players (Tho I do remember Raybells himself saying this was hilarious townsided and he passed it for some reason) and their meta is completely different from ours
like town wins a lot more on MU then it does here.| here.GTKAS- Chisa Yukizome
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