Open 695: Making Friends and Enemies [Mafia Win!]

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Post Post #168  (isolation #0)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:43 pm

hey everyone! i've been following along with this game but i'll do another quick read through and then give some comments.

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Post Post #169  (isolation #1)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:12 pm

alright, full reread complete. to address a few of the more prominent discussions at hand, i townread jamie, don't like lucca's posting and think this is probably cheeky's towngame. also, i find myself agreeing with awoo's . maki's questions / comments seem rather empty and her vote seems relatively weak. out of the entire thread the thing you vote someone for is a comment about getting the game moving on page two?
VOTE: maki

@mod, any word on epic fial?

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Post Post #171  (isolation #2)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:30 pm

i guess i'll say a bit more on lucca.

In post 113, lucca261 wrote:yeah, not liking the last posts from jamie. I mean, reads to me like: "look how townie I am, talking about our masons, the town masons" meh.

hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.

hey, comm, why would an experienced player like quick be afraid of a rvs lynch? I think you are trying to appear active. there was no need to make that post.

I like aubrey so far. and chisa.

the answer to this question is so obvious there's no point in asking it. how would an omgus vote give someone a reaction? pretty much anything you do that someone else responds to gives you a reaction, the question is whether or not it's useful. in the case of an omgus vote, seeing what someone does after it could shape your reads on them. do they ask for clarification on why you voted them? do they take the omgus vote as evidence of you being scum? do they ignore it entirely? how you read the reaction is up to personal interpretation but there's no doubt that an omgus vote will elicit one, same as any other vote really. i'm fairly certain this is cheeky's town meta - making pushes and moving her vote around often to elicit reactions. on the other hand, i'm not entirely convinced this is lucca's town meta. from what i understand it typically involves more gamesolving, although perhaps it's a little too early in the day and this will manifest itself later.

In post 117, lucca261 wrote:because I think you are scum. who says I wanted a response.

you, on the other hand, wanted one. what response?

it just isn't productive to make posts like this, unless this was meant as another reaction test (which i would doubt). sticking your vote on someone in the first couple of pages of the game without even trying to elicit any further reaction or discussion doesn't advance the game or help town in any way really.

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Post Post #172  (isolation #3)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:32 pm

In post 170, Maki Harukawa wrote:You say my comments seem empty and you're trying to diss my read on Awoo when the only thing you feel the need to comment on is me I find that rather strange

i wasn't only commenting on you, i also commented on cheeky, lucca and jamie. is about evenly split between discussing you and other people. could you elaborate?

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Post Post #177  (isolation #4)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:50 pm

hmm, interesting questions! i don't doubt the claim that you were asking questions on things you found strange or didn't understand and i don't think you're scum because of the questions you asked. i guess you could say it's the questions you didn't ask that matter more to me. i don't mean anything rude by this but it didn't seem like you commented on the game in a really meaningful way. i don't see any real motivation to sort people or to follow up on reads from your initial posts. it might be a little bit unfair to expect that of someone who's just replaced in, but that's part of the reason why i voted you - to try to get more out of you. i know it's cliche enough to not worth mentioning, but your vote is a tool, and it's got a lot of uses. i didn't only vote you because of 3 things, like i said i had a lot more reasons behind my vote that i didn't necessarily say.

you ask why shouldn't you scumread me because of those things? well, why would you scumread me because of those things?

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Post Post #180  (isolation #5)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

In post 178, Quick wrote:
In post 169, northsidegal wrote:alright, full reread complete. to address a few of the more prominent discussions at hand, i townread jamie, don't like lucca's posting and think this is probably cheeky's towngame. also, i find myself agreeing with awoo's . maki's questions / comments seem rather empty and her vote seems relatively weak. out of the entire thread the thing you vote someone for is a comment about getting the game moving on page two?
VOTE: maki

@mod, any word on epic fial?


I didn't see anything Scummy in what Maki posted. Looked to just be feeling things out.

i guess i should clarify that me and awoo diverge in thinking in that i don't overtly scumread maki based on her initial posts, i just agree with the assessment that they're rather lacking when it comes to game-advancing content.

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Post Post #182  (isolation #6)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:07 pm

In post 179, Maki Harukawa wrote:I feel like me and you will get along just fine. My questions might not have been that meaningful (I somewhat disagree but I understand the standpoint) but they're mostly for me to get groundwork set hopefully my questions get answered and the thread moves along and I can give more detailed opinions this isn't an excuse saying "Oh I just replaced in so you shouldn't sr me" just me saying how I act on replace ins I like seeing content in real time and catching up mostly leads to questioning from me unless I have a solid outlook on anyone in the game.

alright! for now my vote will be staying where it is but i can definitely believe what you're saying here.

Why would I scumread you? Because the reason you voted me for being scummy would you basically admitting you're doing a scummy action yourself and that would mean you shouldn't sr me on it because in your eyes you're town so you can see that action coming from town. Unless you think it's more likely to come from scum

i can see your point here but i think there's a difference between my vote and yours that you're not taking into account. i thought your vote was suspicious because it was responding to completely non-recent events, whereas my vote was responding to pretty much the most recent event. your vote seemed relatively pointless to me and unlikely to garner any useful information from awoo, whereas i'm already pretty satisfied with the results of my vote! with that in mind i think any element of hypocrisy that you're seeing isn't really there.

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Post Post #188  (isolation #7)  » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:03 pm

In post 186, Awoo wrote:north, what do you mean by game advancing content?

i assume you probably have an idea of what i mean but it's useful to clarify anyways. if you're having a conversation with your friend in the game thread about some new movie or something, that's non-content, but if you're actively scumhunting or trying to solve the game, that would be game advancing content. sure, you could make the argument that someone talking in the thread could be some kind of meta scumread and thus counts as content, but just in general i would say that posts like that are probably less useful than others, at least from the perspective of trying to scumhunt. although, if someone is constantly not scumhunting then it become useful to recognize and point that out, but then it's not really their content that's advancing the game, it's more their lack of content i suppose. when i used the term in it was as a synonym of "meaningful thoughts, questions or comments that either respond to current points or facilitate discussion".

i hope i don't come off as some kind of super serious person here! it's not like i'm saying it's never okay to just chat with people. i guess this has all just been a really roundabout way of saying that maki's intial posts lacked real scumhunting.

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Post Post #210  (isolation #8)  » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:59 pm

In post 202, Lalendra wrote:
In post 182, northsidegal wrote:alright! for now my vote will be staying where it is but i can definitely believe what you're saying here.

If you see what they're saying why are you still voting them? Are you saying the logic makes sense but you're still not getting a town vibe?

what i was saying was that i can see how the reasoning that maki was just making those posts as a catchup or to get her bearings makes sense. the reason i kept my vote there is because her post was essentially a promise of more content later, and i wanted my vote to serve as a reminder of that.

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Post Post #222  (isolation #9)  » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:41 pm

In post 209, lucca261 wrote:northsidegal: hey, so, reading your posts, your vote should be on me. continuing: I think northside is town. regardless of how wrong she is, her posts show me she's trying to create content, purposeful content, and is trying to scumhunt. I like her discussions with Maki, which I thought was a reasonable discussion, in which north was trying to present her point without misrepping what maki was saying. it says to me that she believes in what she's writing.
: i'm not so keen on this post, but I can see where she's coming from. my point is that stating "my vote is a reaction test with OMGUS and I want a reaction" would give me the option to ignore the vote and just continue playing, because, of course, it's not a serious vote. this, combined with the lack of pressure, not to react, but to talk (cheeky only asked me something when pressured by other players to do so) makes cheeky vote useless. when I ask her what response, I'm trying to see what she gained from voting me. what changed between then and now.

it didn't seem like you were around, so i thought i'd use my vote a bit more productively. like i said, pretty happy with the outcome of that. you say that explicitly saying your vote is a reaction test defeats the purpose (and i agree), but did cheeky really do that? assuming we're both talking about , all she said was "serious omgus vote". you could take it that any vote that explicitly announces omgus isn't serious, but i would say it could also be used as just a term for voting the person who just voted you. you could just ignore the vote, but like i said in 171, choosing not to react is still a reaction in itself. not sure i get your point on "lack of pressure to talk". someone voting you usually necessitates some kind of answer. if you're trying to make the point that cheeky's lack of follow-up questions makes the vote useless, i'm not sure i agree. i guess a big problem i have with you is this interaction here:
Spoiler:
In post 113, lucca261 wrote:hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.

In post 116, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 113, lucca261 wrote:hey, cheeky, how a naked omgus vote without any pressure would give you a reaction? talk to me.


I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Why did you naked vote me?

In post 117, lucca261 wrote:because I think you are scum. who says I wanted a response.

you, on the other hand, wanted one. what response?

you're not being forthcoming here, and i don't think it shows town-motivation. it's not always bad to secretive with your reads or the reasons, but here you make it seem as if you know for a fact that cheeky is scum and you don't need any further evidence or reactions. why not elaborate on why you scumread cheeky? why would you not want a response from voting someone? if you believe cheeky is scum then certainly you would want to convince other people, so why be so quiet in your confidence? the reason i would suspect from your meta is because you plan to point out all the reasons later, without giving scum a chance to change their behavior mid-day, but i haven't really seen that yet. 208 doesn't entirely satisfy that for me, so unless there's something spectacular later i think i'll keep my eye on you.

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Post Post #226  (isolation #10)  » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:09 pm

In post 225, lucca261 wrote:cheeky really did that, and she say it herself on 87, when pressured by quick. openly saying she wants a response from me = openly saying her vote is a reaction test. my point is: if cheeky wanted to have a response from me, putting a vote on my slot and then saying she wants a response is counter productive, it redirects the discussion away from why I voted her. she could've, you know, just asked.

i think i'd like to hear cheeky's point of view with regard to this. anyone else can chime in, as well, if you've got something to add!

there was nothing spetacular, it was my first non-rvs vote, on page 5. I don't need a full case on somebody. my reasons for voting her were expressed on post 206. at the time, it was the scummiest thing on the game. so I voted her. I never said I know for a fact that cheeky is scum. in fact, I quote: "because I think you are scum". where did I say I know she is scum or that I don't need evidence? I was engaging with her at that moment. I was furthering my read at that moment.

so, let's talk: what's my motivation as scum to accuse cheeky without any reasons here?

you may not have said that you know she's scum, but from your actions it certainly appears that way. i'm thinking more and more that it's a meta thing, but it seemed to me to be unusual behavior towards someone you scumread. when i see someone pushing someone else as scummy and it appears fake or strange, i'm more inclined to think that they're pushing a mislynch. from what i'm gathering from this conversation you further your reads in ways that i can't easily pick up on, so i'm going to keep that in mind going forward as well as when reviewing previous posts.

in response to your last line, that's what i've been turning over in my head. you'll note that i've never explicitly said i scumread you, even if i find it hard to find town motivation in some of your actions. mainly i disagree with the wagon you've started.

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Post Post #230  (isolation #11)  » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 pm

In post 229, Quick wrote:
In post 212, Lalendra wrote:You're right, I missed it. My vote was on you at the beginning and I have yet to change it because I have yet to decide on a better place to park it.


You can unvote?

would you say that unvoting is necessarily better than leaving it where it is?

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Post Post #233  (isolation #12)  » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:07 pm

@mod, last two votecounts have been off - they show me as both voting and not voting.


Fixed ;p
Last edited by Torque on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Post #364  (isolation #13)  » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:22 pm

In post 363, Jamiet99uk wrote:Now, COMMKNIGHT is voting for me.

How much does he trust his magical guts?

I will agree follow him, and to vote for myself today, if he agrees that he will lead a D2 lynch on *himself* if I flip town.

What's it to be, CommKnight? I am not afraid to die.

bad idea. no reason to ever agree to this and no reason to ever follow through on it. if you know you're town then you shouldn't accept your own lynch, if comm knows he's town he wouldn't accept his own lynch. in fact, same goes for either of you as scum. if you think comm is scum then convince other people, don't play against your wincon. like, what happens if we lynch one of you and it's a town flip? would you just roll over the next day? obviously not, you would realize that you had messed up and try to back out of it, even though you had already committed today. this is just never a good idea.

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Post Post #440  (isolation #14)  » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:13 pm

In post 432, Lalendra wrote:I'm just saying his claims are scummy at worst, and anti-town at best.

Personally, I think he's scum who is not claiming mason because that would be too easy for the actual masons to refute, so he's claiming VT instead.

It could also be that he's VT who is legit claiming but by doing so, is making the game easier for scum.

I think it's the first option, which is why I'm voting him. But either way, I don't like the odds of town winning if he lives.

P-edit: Too late, sorry

but why would scum bother claiming in the first place? all it does is draw more attention to yourself, as evidenced by this entire conversation.

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Post Post #496  (isolation #15)  » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:49 am

In post 468, Awoo wrote:Jamie is becoming a policy lynch.
A policy lynch that I support.
VOTE: jamiet99uk
Because otherwise it's too obvious who's getting mason'd, and that's bad. At least when we remove this from the game there is a good layer of ambiguity who the copshot lands on.

Is it bad if I think this slot isn't reaaaaaaly going to flip scum? I don't think this lynch is terrible for town as we also get some info on who's on wagons and stuff, who pushed him throughout the day, etc. But I don't reaaaly think it's going to flip scum.

A lot of my scumreads are on this wagon and I feel bad in that regard but read above.

:!: :!: I THINK THIS IS L-1 :!: :!:

i'm not going to ask the obvious question of "why push a lynch you think will flip town", because you've answered that. the thing is, i don't think your answer is a good enough reason. like, what do we actually gain from lynching jamie? you say that you can analyze the wagons and see who pushed him and such, but you can do all of that today. if, like you said, you already believe jamie is town, then analyze the wagons and the interactions today with that in mind. you don't need him to be dead before you can start looking at, for example, players that may have opportunistically pushed his wagon. finally, if some of your actual scumreads are on the wagon, is there some reason that you're not attempting to get those players lynched? we have about 6 days left, more than enough time for a good case to change some people's minds.
VOTE: awoo

oh yeah, what's the deal with the bold? seems like a fairly weak reason to lynch somebody. it also assumes that jamie is town and that the masonize turns him into a mason instead of confirming him as scum, which i would say could be a slip except you're already assuming that he's town. i don't give too much weight to slight slips like that anyways.

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Post Post #502  (isolation #16)  » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:05 pm

In post 501, Quick wrote:
In post 499, Maki Harukawa wrote:You know when I saw Awoo's post I was like *perks eyebrow* myself but I think it's so honest that scum doesn't need to say a line like that I don't think scum Awoo looks at that post and clicks submit


So too Scummy to be Scum is what you are thinking?

Resistance #1.

no, too scummy to be scum isn't what she's saying. she's saying it appears to be not concerned enough about appearances to be scum. at least, that's how i interpreted it.

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Post Post #522  (isolation #17)  » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:26 pm

In post 521, Quick wrote:
In post 520, CheekyTeeky wrote:You're the one who is ringing alarm bells through my catch up. I noticed you jumped on my wagon agreeing with everyone instead of creating your own argument. I already said it looked like you're cruising through the game and I'm not super convinced you're town by your line of questionning here either. Why would I vote with a town read? One of my town reads is voting my other town read lol. I will go into more detail on my reads at some point. Sorry I keep putting it off, I've been super useless this game.


What are you even talking about? Why do people keep saying I am voting for people without my own reasoning when I most certainly am.

perhaps you're not doing a good enough job of making that clear. i thought your vote in was just sheeping me. if you had your own reasons for it i didn't really pick up on them.

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Post Post #526  (isolation #18)  » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:12 pm

In post 524, Quick wrote:
In post 522, northsidegal wrote:
In post 521, Quick wrote:
In post 520, CheekyTeeky wrote:You're the one who is ringing alarm bells through my catch up. I noticed you jumped on my wagon agreeing with everyone instead of creating your own argument. I already said it looked like you're cruising through the game and I'm not super convinced you're town by your line of questionning here either. Why would I vote with a town read? One of my town reads is voting my other town read lol. I will go into more detail on my reads at some point. Sorry I keep putting it off, I've been super useless this game.


What are you even talking about? Why do people keep saying I am voting for people without my own reasoning when I most certainly am.

perhaps you're not doing a good enough job of making that clear. i thought your vote in was just sheeping me. if you had your own reasons for it i didn't really pick up on them.


Than you missed the post directly above yours.

My reason was that Awoo was advocating a PL on someone who in my mind is clearly Town.

right, but in that post you're just saying how bad you think the vote is. it isn't until i make my post and jamie sheeps me too that you hop on the wagon. through a certain lens someone might even call it opportunistic, or a scummy hop-on. what stopped you from voting in your first post and what caused you to vote in your second post? to me it seemed like you were scared to draw attention to yourself and you only voted in the comfort of a crowd.

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Post Post #543  (isolation #19)  » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:32 pm

hmm, i was a little hesitant on giving awoo a free pass just because he recognized that "oops i made a mistake", but then i realized that he's been doing exactly what i said he should be doing in - analyzing jamie's wagon without the need for lynching jamie first. maybe it's just scum changing their play to adapt to my reads (a problem i should really work on), but either way i'm liking the push. for now,
VOTE: quick

my thoughts on this are in .

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Post Post #565  (isolation #20)  » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:50 pm

guys, there are actually three scum within the following people, i'm sure of it:
Spoiler:
CommKnight
Flavor Leaf
Jamiet99uk
CheekyTeeky
northsidegal
Maki Harukawa
Lalendra
Quick
Aubrey
Chisa Yukizome
Awoo
Epic Fial
lucca261

just having a bit of fun, not meant to be a poke at you or anything comm!

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Post Post #593  (isolation #21)  » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:03 pm

In post 583, lucca261 wrote:so, the wagon on awoo: I don't like it so much. 468 in special is a weird post. as scum, you would want to create a narrative. awwo wouldn't need such a convoluted reason to jump on the jamie wagon if he's scum, given how scummy his slot has been. I expected more from northside than just jumping on one post, without stating any more reads. feels opportunistic, like he was waiting "that" scummy post to create his wagon on awoo. I like jamie/quick votes on it, though. consistent.

i was reading the thread and i saw and i was pretty surprised that nobody else had seemed to point out how anti-town the motivations in it were, so i typed up and moved my vote onto awoo because it wasn't really serving any purpose where it was, on maki. i wasn't trying to push a wagon through and i didn't expect to get sheeped by two different people, i was trying to get awoo to talk. not exactly sure how you see it as opportunistic - is there any indication elsewhere that i really wanted awoo gone or i was just waiting for the right reason to lynch awoo? explain that point to me. also, if you take it that i was trying to get rid of awoo or build a wagon there, makes no sense within that context.

In post 585, lucca261 wrote:look at this, from NSG: 565: she's not worried one bit about the game. she's letting other people push quick and get the backlash from it, while being at the wagon. this is scum, keeping their options open, while hopping from wagon to wagon. not one clear read, bland.

565 was just me poking a bit of fun at at comm's . i am taking this game seriously, but that doesn't mean you can never joke around. unless you meant to quote a different post, this is a really weak argument. scum keeping their options open? this is town, trying to get reactions out of people to better sort them. look at the entire interaction from to and - quick comes up with what i see as a relatively weak defense when awoo starts pressuring him and the wagon starts forming. i've said it before and i'll say it again, i use my vote as a tool and this time again i'm already happy with the results.

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Post Post #594  (isolation #22)  » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:12 pm

In post 584, Maki Harukawa wrote:northsidega
Lalendra
Awoo Jamiet99uk
Aubrey
Chisa Yukizome CheekyTeeky lucca261
Flavor Leaf Epic Fial
Quick CommKnight

is where I'm at atm

can you explain why you townread lalendra? you expressed the same townread in (even asking why someone scumread lalendra over asking why they scumread yourself!) and (and also kind of in ), but i don't think you've ever talked about it and that's a slot that i'm questioning a bit. most other slots i can at least see the arguments or the rationale for their position on your list but i don't know if i can see lalendra as so high on any list.

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Post Post #708  (isolation #23)  » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:14 pm

In post 703, Jamiet99uk wrote:@Northsidegal, Lalendra, Maki

Re-read CommKnight's ISO and tell me why you TR him.

when did i say that i do?

my opinion on comm right now is mostly that i don't think he's a good lynch today.

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Post Post #713  (isolation #24)  » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 pm

quick your scumreads are really, really weak, at least from my perspective. can you elaborate more on awoo's false info? i presume you're specifically talking about some sort of deliberate misrepresentation rather than a simple disagreement, but i'd like to know exactly what you're referring to. on cheeky, does the fact that cheeky did something a bit weird or unusual as a reaction test really lend itself to being scum number two, especially so much later in the game than it happened? it's been a while since that whole interaction happened, do you have anything else that you scumread cheeky for? finally, the argument everyone makes on comm is "there's no reason to townread him", but i haven't seen a lot of people put forth entirely good reasons to scumread him, either (or if they have i haven't noticed). people seem to be making enemies with him just because they don't like his personality, which i've learned is not a productive way to play mafia.

basically, i would need more from you to confirm that you're actually trying to figure people out and to solve this game. as it stands now, i don't really get that feeling.

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Post Post #796  (isolation #25)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:28 pm

fake hammers are practically cliche at this point. do you really think you can build this jamie quickwagon from 0 to 7 in twenty hours? is switching votes really a good idea at this point?

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Post Post #835  (isolation #26)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

In post 515, Lalendra wrote:Sigh. I really don't want to townread Jamie after all that, but UNVOTE:

I already had some doubt, and his last few posts felt very Towny to me. And now I'm back at square one.

In post 798, Lalendra wrote:I would not be opposed to a Jamie wagon, I have thought his play was anti-town at best from the beginning (and if I'm being honest, the complaints about the site are wearing on me).

In post 814, Lalendra wrote:
In post 799, Aubrey wrote:
In post 798, Lalendra wrote:I would not be opposed to a Jamie wagon, I have thought his play was anti-town at best from the beginning (and if I'm being honest, the complaints about the site are wearing on me).


I thought you were wavering on him throughout the day?

If you look at my ISO, I wavered on him VERY early, but for the remainder of the game I have been pretty unimpressed with his play.

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Post Post #836  (isolation #27)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:03 pm

In post 830, Lalendra wrote:Not manipulating mechanics. At this point idc if you're scum or not, we can go about sorting that out once you're gone. If you're scum, great - if you're just toxic, rude and anti-town, then that's good too. I don't understand why people insist on self-voting, attacking others personally, etc. It's not just playing against your wincon, it ruins the game for everyone else. Take your toxicity elsewhere.

VOTE: jamiet

In post 496, northsidegal wrote:i'm not going to ask the obvious question of "why push a lynch you think will flip town", because you've answered that. the thing is, i don't think your answer is a good enough reason. like, what do we actually gain from lynching jamie? you say that you can analyze the wagons and see who pushed him and such, but you can do all of that today. if, like you said, you already believe jamie is town, then analyze the wagons and the interactions today with that in mind. you don't need him to be dead before you can start looking at, for example, players that may have opportunistically pushed his wagon. finally, if some of your actual scumreads are on the wagon, is there some reason that you're not attempting to get those players lynched? we have about 6 days left, more than enough time for a good case to change some people's minds.

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Post Post #837  (isolation #28)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:05 pm

VOTE: lalenda
looks like it's time to start my own wagon. will be around for the rest of the day if needed.

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Post Post #847  (isolation #29)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 pm

In post 844, Jamiet99uk wrote:Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.

seconding this point - i read what you said you were trying to do and had an instant moment of "oh, that makes sense". if there are people who believe jamie's behavior earlier this game is due to incompetence or to scum awkwardness, to reconcile that view and this claimed strategy you would have to believe that in the time period between then and now jamie gained enough knowledge of the game or experience to both realize how awkard what he was saying sounded and to come up with a believable explanation for it. i think the far simpler and more likely answer is that it was a planned strategy, as claimed. it just makes a lot of sense looking back that it was a deliberate attempt to put forward a newbie image. of course, it's not as if this strategy couldn't have come from scum, but again - i'd say the far more likely answer is that it shows a town thought process / motivation.

relevant quotes:
In post 421, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 417, Lalendra wrote:

In post 410, Jamiet99uk wrote:Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.


1) Not sure if I believe this was all a ploy, or if this is backpedaling and "I MEANT TO DO THAT."
2) Remember how we were trying not to out the masons? Saying you're VT is narrowing the pool. We already talked about this. Stahp.
3) "I'm definitely town, fellow townsfolk" is the most LAMIST post I've ever seen.



I'm not trying to out the Masons or narrow the pool. Maybe you are.

In post 425, Jamiet99uk wrote:@Lalendra: You're mistaken about what I'm trying to do. I'm not scum.

In post 431, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 428, Lalendra wrote:It's easy to say you're not scum, but you didn't refute my points.


If I did that, I would have to explain myself. That would be counter-productive at this time. Don't vote for me tho. Thanks.

In post 438, Jamiet99uk wrote:Who is claiming VT? Me? Nonono.

(Aubrey I am using a computer)

In post 447, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 446, Lalendra wrote:Yes, my continuing to push you on things you've said and refuse to defend, and calling you out on your unwillingness to explain yourself, is obviously just unfounded tunneling.


Perhaps your intention is well-founded and you just have no idea what I might be doing, but it's still tunnelling and it's not very helpful at this point. It's just becoming repetitious.

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Post Post #852  (isolation #30)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:01 pm

chisa's last post was 20 hours ago. if you're that annoyed by the lack of activity then flavor leaf's last post was over two days ago.

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Post Post #857  (isolation #31)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:37 pm

it looks like we've got a few people on at the same time here, so now's a good time for discussion.

In post 854, Lalendra wrote:Well this is going well

really? nothing to add or comment on?

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Post Post #863  (isolation #32)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:55 pm

so i felt like commenting on the morality of fake hammering but i didn't want an unrelated discussion to be the only part of my post, so here are some more relevant posts to look at when considering the context of jamie's claimed gambit.
In post 102, Jamiet99uk wrote:I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.

In post 252, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 240, Epic Fial wrote:
In post 102, Jamiet99uk wrote:I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.


What steps shall we take to keep the masons alive?



Let's try not to lynch them.

In post 414, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 413, Quick wrote:
In post 410, Jamiet99uk wrote:Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.


So... was that thing where you told people not to lynch the masons the same type of thing?



Erm, no. It was something else. I don't wish to discuss that at the moment.

In post 426, Jamiet99uk wrote:VOTE: Lalendra for fishing.

In post 493, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 468, Awoo wrote:Jamie is becoming a policy lynch.
A policy lynch that I support.
VOTE: jamiet99uk
Because otherwise it's too obvious who's getting mason'd, and that's bad. At least when we remove this from the game there is a good layer of ambiguity who the copshot lands on.

Is it bad if I think this slot isn't reaaaaaaly going to flip scum? I don't think this lynch is terrible for town as we also get some info on who's on wagons and stuff, who pushed him throughout the day, etc. But I don't reaaaly think it's going to flip scum.

A lot of my scumreads are on this wagon and I feel bad in that regard but read above.

:!: :!: I THINK THIS IS L-1 :!: :!:


You are misreading my intentions. I'm not attempting to get Masoned. If I am not a Mason the Masons should definitely not attempt to Mason me. I would strongly discourage any such action!

In post 580, Jamiet99uk wrote:Actually Quick has been intelligent enough to notice something that many of you have failed to grasp.

(this one relates to his recent comment that he felt quick picked up on his mason gambit)

Spoiler: morality of fakehammering
fake hammering is the exact same thing you do in any game of mafia - lie to someone. it follows the exact same principle. there's no abuse of game mechanics in the same way that a scum player saying that they're town isn't an unfair abuse of the fact that town is uninformed - it's a part of the game. would you make the argument that scum fakeclaiming is an abuse of setup mechanics? would you make the argument that a townie faking a guilty is an abuse of setup mechanics (don't do this by the way)? let's say that i make a huge, convoluted post and convince everyone that i have found a gamebreaking strategy for town, and they all believe me and do what i say. is this an abuse of game mechanics, or unsportsmanlike? if so, why? i would argue it isn't - influencing people's perceptions is the entire game of mafia, so just because an action relates more to the mechanical side (fake hammering, saying you have a gamebreaking strategy) doesn't mean that it's outside of what's "meant" to happen in the game.

another mafiascum player recently introduced me to this book (readable online), and i've found it very interesting as well as relatable to this situation. it's mainly about computer games or video games, but i think it's applicable here as well. (by the way, i hope there are no rules against off-site links.)
How Far Should You Go to Win?
Introducing the Scub (no offense meant at all by this)

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Post Post #866  (isolation #33)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:48 pm

@flubber and @comm, both of you either justify where your vote is right now or move it in your very next post.

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Post Post #868  (isolation #34)  » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:03 pm

In post 867, CommKnight wrote:You're asking me to move my vote off the CURRENT BIGGEST WAGON and onto someone I have a more townier read from.

Not gonna happen. I'm voting one of the current potential lynches. So what if you TR Jamie. I sure as hell do not. My vote stays. Jamie or bust.

no, i'm fine with this response. what i wanted to gather from that was either a current read or a changed vote - the main point was to avoid anyone just coasting through the end of this day. the next step is your justification beyond wagon numbers - if you scumread jamie, what's your response to the mason gambit? if you townread lalendra, what's your justification on that and what's your response to and ? you had lalendra as one of the scummiest in and as null in , and apparently townread her now to the point where it's not a viable lynch. what changed?

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Post Post #871  (isolation #35)  » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:51 am

we're really going to need people to get on soon if today isn't going to end in a no-lynch.

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Post Post #931  (isolation #36)  » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:21 pm

bah, go town!!

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Post Post #2044  (isolation #37)  » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:59 pm

good game all! i'm a little mad about being killed n1, i think this game would've been a lot of fun and i could've done well as a mason.


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