Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[sheepsaysmeep]

Hey hey hey

VOTE: deasvail
creary only needed to say hey once

[sheepsaysmeep]

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

Welp Your dead tonight

good job assuming theres no jk
this might be a slip but not rlly

[sheepsaysmeep]

What does RVS stand for?

My guess would be "random vote season" and I gather it just refers to the period of time during day 1 in which most posts are not serious ones and everything is a little jokey but I'd like to learn what it means :3

random voting session
joking around to stimulate discussion

[sheepsaysmeep]

I don't think IceGuy is bad tbh. Looking at his posts so far, we have an RVS post, one that is advising someone else to NOT get the mod to confirm their IC role (a good idea tbh, since that would make the IC an easy target for maf) and one (which I agree with) saying that others are basically using 2 posts for their reads, neither of which are scum-posts.

I don't know if Transcend has been IC before, but it is possible that IceGuy was telling him just in case, lots of posts does not equal experience as roles such as IC, not voting for them yet because of the IC claim, it might be accurate, then again, I have never been in a game with that role before so idk.

I don't have any other reads right now, so I am going to

UNVOTE:
for now.

way different from scum enterance in dat one shitty micro i played with kelbris
but micro and normal are dif

[sheepsaysmeep]

Speaking of dumb questions....65.

and das creary why it wasnt answered <o/

[sheepsaysmeep]

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

sr on deas
he tr's ppl luca does like 1 post against 2 of them and deas just backs of


i'll go read the thread someday

[sheepsaysmeep]

Nice job dodging the question

yeah, I have a reason. Not gonna push it until I've seen more from them, but it wasn't just random.

you could at the very least provide the reason

[sheepsaysmeep]

hi
in what universe is hiding reason to vote someone town

[sheepsaysmeep]

prodge
will read this thread when i have time later today

[sheepsaysmeep]

Hey, so here are my reads that nobody asked for:

Yuria - Slightly scummy in my opinion. They only have 2 posts and they avoided a question with another question. Whilst this stuff isn't really a scum tell overall they don't seem that useful to the town so I would be up for lynching them since we don't know much day 1.
Ectomancer - Whilst I'm split on the tell of their tactic to force wagons on us, they seem fairly reasonable and like someone who is willing to at least contribute a lot. So at the moment, I think they are worth keeping around.
IceGuy - I don't really get many vibes from him of either alignment. I don't really see why there are votes against him.
DeasVail - He seems very friendly. To the point where I would derp clear him as town. Though this is mafia, so a nice guy approach might just be a facade.
Transcend - His posts consist of a whole lot of nothing and some of them are somewhat misleading. The only credit I could give them right now is that they are active. But the slight scumminess in the lack of sense that they are writing means I would be comfortable lynching them at this stage.
Fishythefish - I trust the fishy for now. I would like to see him post a little more though as I feel like he has more to offer than what we've seen so far.
Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.
Luca Blight - Another player that seems reasonable in what they are saying. I feel like he has a way of seeing wider logic which I think is useful late game.
kelbris - I like his logic and how he offers his opinion into the discussion. He is a seemingly useful player that I would not be comfortable lynching day 1.
sheepsaysmeep - He seems rather unnoticeable to me. Before isolating his posts I only thought he had 1. Other than that they seem okay though.
havingfitz - I don't like how he passively suggested Transcend revealed being the IC so early in the game. Pretty scummy if you ask me. Whether or not they are indeed mafia I think this kind of bad thinking wouldn't be helpful to town in the long run so I'd be willing to lynch them day 1. Despite this, they do seem like they would be helpful.
Lil Uzi Vert - He has not been helpful in anyway whatsoever. Hist posts are literally just an introduction, votes, and a single emoji. Based on how I vote on day 1 lynches, which if you haven't noticed is more based on usefulness than it is scum tells, he is the person I would be most prepared to lynch.

mutantdevle - He seems like an utter noob which can get annoying. Not sure what to make of this guy.

davesaz - They haven't spoken in a long time. I'd like to see them speak more.




Btw my attitude towards day 1 lynches is, since we don't know much, I prefer to lynch based on how useful I think the players will be. The only time I really move away from this is if either someone makes a proper slip and we can actually be fairly confident that they are actually scum or the pressures of time means that I'd have to vote for somone I am not really okay with lynching but still think it is worth losing them in order to not end the day in a no lynch.

Yuria - you say the two posts are slightly scummy because they avoided answering a question, but then you say that's not a question?
also about the yuria and elmo part; idk if anyone else has said this yet but d1 you lynch on scumminess not unhelpfulness

[sheepsaysmeep]

that's not a scumtell* not that's not a question whawt am i doing

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

I’m also currently willing to vote for havingfitz if the wagon was to switch to him. Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

mutantdevle is town.

what's town about that post?

[sheepsaysmeep]

he was already on the wagon lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

guys we have 9 days of discussion time
let's not lynch for at least 8 days tbh (mostly i want to read before eod)

[sheepsaysmeep]

Guys there's no need to wall

You can convey your points across very easily in just one or two lines

my best friend

[sheepsaysmeep]

Spoiler:

We need two good trains today and Transcend has volunteered to be the engine for the first of them.

VOTE: Transcend

[
I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

If you're actually IC, don't do this.

He is quite clearly Inexperience Challenged. Now quit flapping your gums and jump on his wagon.

[
I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

If you're actually IC, don't do this.

He is quite clearly Inexperience Challenged. Now quit flapping your gums and jump on his wagon.

Why so hasty

There are two wagons today. Transcend and IceGuy and he wouldn't jump on his own wagon right? And I can't get both a Transcend and an Iceguy wagon going by myself, I'm going to need some help. So naturally I am going to petition the guy who wouldn't be on an Iceguy wagon to anchor this Transcend one for me.
We are starting to get some movement on Transcend though, so I am going to:

UNVOTE: Transcend

VOTE: Iceguy

Transcend kicks off the game with the "IC" claim (quoted due to "Chile") and havingfritz decides to cross foils with him. So it begins. I don't know the alignment of these two, but they were creating information and rope by which people might hang themselves.
I asked myself why Iceguy would state the super obvious to Transcend to not ask the mod to confirm the role claimed. Iceguy has been around, but Transcend has literally 10x the number of posts of either one of us. So I'm slapping Iceguy with an "I'm a super helpful townie" scum tell violation.

Are people seriously basing a scumread on two posts, one of which is RVS?

Building an elaborate multi-paragraph post where you break down every detail of what makes them scum is beautiful. Single post slip-ups where I can say "Ahah! I got you scum!" are even better and anecdotally are historically more accurate.

So yes, it is just that easy to post and get caught as scum in early game. You'll do better next time

It seems pretty usual to me that people exaggerate the significance of their thoughts early game in order to actually have something to talk about. Is that your experience too?

Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum.

But you keep saying these lynchable things.....like this

Town reads so far:

Kelbris

, Transcend, Mutant
I want to say Ectomancer too but there’s a little more doubt there.

I’m also very torn on IceGuy right now.

I'm skeptical as to this Townread of Kelbris here.

Spoiler: Let's take a look at his posts

Hello everyone, let's have a great game.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep
everyone has their own way of saying hello, maybe dave's a Fat Albert fan.

I don't think IceGuy is bad tbh. Looking at his posts so far, we have an RVS post, one that is advising someone else to NOT get the mod to confirm their IC role (a good idea tbh, since that would make the IC an easy target for maf) and one (which I agree with) saying that others are basically using 2 posts for their reads, neither of which are scum-posts.

I don't know if Transcend has been IC before, but it is possible that IceGuy was telling him just in case, lots of posts does not equal experience as roles such as IC, not voting for them yet because of the IC claim, it might be accurate, then again, I have never been in a game with that role before so idk.

I don't have any other reads right now, so I am going to

UNVOTE:
for now.

I was voicing my opinion on the 2 main wagons in the game. People were voting Transcend because of his "IC" claim, and voting IceGuy because of his advice to not get the mod to reveal. So far, the only one I have any suspicion on is havingfitz because of his suggestion that Transcend should get the mod to confirm the IC claim D1, something which I believe does nothing but put a big target on the IC's back (unless there is a JK, but we don't know what the maf chose).

Post #1 - Rvs; NAI.

Post #2 - what I would call an unproductive post - it's early in the game and 'pressure' on the likes of Transcend and IceGuy is designed to create content. Defending IceGuy here does nothing but put a halt to that momentum, leaving the game back where it started; with nothing. I'm even more skeptical after Deas' point (which I agree with) in 39 where he acknowledges that such exaggeration of early posts in and around RVS is sometimes required - why then does he like this post by Kelbris?

Post #3 - Kelbris explains his #2 post. His point against Fitz is fair enough, but then why not mention it in post #2 and why not place a vote on Fitz/follow up his suspicion with questioning?

So if Deas could explain this one, that would be great.

This is good scum hunting right here.

Of the five completed ones I could find this was the layouts:

1 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons
2 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
3 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
4 - IC/2*Vig/1* Cop & 3 mafia goons
5 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons

I am wondering whether a Townie would look so thoroughly into the previous setups so early in the game, particularly given scum pick the powers.

Also Fitz's annoyance in this post about the potential IC being outed doesn't seem very sincere considering his relaxed tone in this post:

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

VOTE: DeasVail

You genuinely thought Transcend was IC claiming here, yet you seemed completely cool with it.

Go Luca!

And this one:

The mod cannot confirm me as innocent chile

I assumed a mispell...not lame humor.

Shame....you're one it would be nice to have confirmed.

VOTE: Transcend

You call it a 'shame' he's not genuinely claiming IC, but then later are annoyed that an IC could have potentially been outed:

Regardless...pretty clear there will be an IC in this game which makes Transcend's lol claim all the more annoying. Would have sucked if Transcend is town and his humor caused the real ~IC to claim. As it is...I think the ~IC should wait until he/she is on the verge of being lynched...if that ever happens. Same obviously for the other 2 PRs.

Beautiful.

hi
in what universe is hiding reason to vote someone town

When you don't want scum to know what you saw. You just want them to do it again but felt pressure enough to defend a previous post you made with a "with reason" backing it up.
Serious Yuria? Why are you feeling that much pressure? sheepsaysmeep could easily be ignored long enough for them to go back to sleep and leave you alone. You should have just kept quiet and see if scum either did it again, or tried pressuring you. Because that's who would be pressuring you at that point. Unless of course, you are already feeling pressure from carrying a scum role as it is. When sheepsaysmeep put a feather on your back, it caused you to squawk out "With reason!".

When you say "devoid of context" - do you think there's more context I should have added?

Devoid of context because you were making a general statement that didn't take into account the current state of play - the fact the game is still in its infancy which means wagon switches bear less significance.

No, I'm not implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop. IceGuy is saying specifically that "Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum." I don't think that fits well with Ectomancer's actions - hopping between two about equally sized wagons doesn't really look like going for any old lynch - so I want to hear more from IceGuy on why he thinks this.

Fair enough.

IceGuy did seem a bit on the defensive with that comment, so I would also like to hear him explain it.

Does IceGuy think Ecto is scum for '

finding somebody to lynch instead of finding scum

', or could a Townie also do such?

Do you know why IceGuy is so scummy? Because my vote on him was, I think, the first vote of the game with a real, actual scumtell for a reason. But instead of addressing that reason he responds with (paraphrase):
"Are you really going to vote me seriously 2 posts into RVS?"
And that was followed by (paraphrase):
"Oh, he isn't serious about scumhunting" (in spite of being the first vote with a real reasoning) "he'll just lynch anybody"

lynch Iceguy

Of the five completed ones I could find this was the layouts:

1 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons
2 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
3 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
4 - IC/2*Vig/1* Cop & 3 mafia goons
5 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons

I am wondering whether a Townie would look so thoroughly into the previous setups so early in the game, particularly given scum pick the powers.

Also Fitz's annoyance in this post about the potential IC being outed doesn't seem very sincere considering his relaxed tone in this post:

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

VOTE: DeasVail

You genuinely thought Transcend was IC claiming here, yet you seemed completely cool with it.

Hate to bust it to you but as someone whos played this setup quite a few times it tells you nothing about alignment. Town and scum both would look at previous games for telling XY.
I can tell you why there has been so many cops and vigs but thats a null point.

I agree as a general point, but so early in the game?

Obviously Mafia are very likely to look into previous setups as they choose the powers, but as a Townie myself it didn't even cross my mind to check, and nor would it until something of relevance to the setup occurred.

Perhaps that's just me though.

Nope, that's me too.

Just to be clear, I want Fitz to answer the following

:

With regards to looking so thoroughly into the setup so early on, do you have any meta that shows this is something you do as Town?

You don't think Transcend's fake claim was AI indicative and are in fact townreading him, so why would you vote him?

What compelled you to unvote in 43? I don't want a general reason, I want to know why specifically you unvoted here and not in your previous 31?

What do you mean by the '

consistency of my wagon

', and why is that a reason to not vote me?

Other general points that aren't necessarily questions:

I don't like how you had time to make a long post on setup spec and excuse making but did not interact with anyone or show any hint that you're trying to find scum.

I don't like how self-concious you seem - you feel the need to explain your RVS vote even though no-one mentioned it, you felt the need to explain your Transcend vote and your position on Transcend so everyone knows you might unvote soon. You were worried your 31 might be perceived as rolefishing.

I don't like your conflicted view of being annoyed that the IC might be drawn out while also saying an early IC claim isn't bad. Also how you said it's a 'shame' Transcend's claim wasn't real - it doesn't match up, and makes your subsequent claim of 'annoyance' seem fake.

I don't like how you say you were thinking of voting me but then don't vote me - what is the purpose of this exactly? A veiled threat to say 'if you keep this up I will vote you?' A way of throwing a bit of shade while avoiding direct conflict?

/good stuff just keeps coming

Is giving these reads scummy as well as pointless?

Never said it was scummy.

You voted, and then criticised the big list of reads, so I rather assumed you thought the big list of reads was scummy. If not - why did you vote mutant?

I'm liking this Elmo wagon.

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

I’m also currently willing to vote for havingfitz if the wagon was to switch to him. Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

mutantdevle is town.

I'm all the more interested to hear Fitz' observations given he only seems to post about things that are directly related to him.

I'm not a fan of havingfitz

I do not like how fast Elmo's wagon is coming together. Now to figure out whether Elmo is actually town, and who's in it for the mislynch.

Now that you know Yuria-scum is on it you need to show that you could sense scum suddenly on the wagon?

So, you don't think it's alignment indicative, but you voted him when pointing it out and still say your vote is in the right place. How does this make sense?

Oh but going for the lynch after all huh? Elmo - town equals IceGuy-scum.......so let's lynch IceGuy! Oh, but Elmo is equally as good.

unvote

vote: Elmo TeH AzN

Time for a claim.

Do not hammer and try to say you didn't know

That was shockingly easy

It was the proper thing to do.

Serious Yuria? Why are you feeling that much pressure? sheepsaysmeep could easily be ignored long enough for them to go back to sleep and leave you alone. You should have just kept quiet and see if scum either did it again, or tried pressuring you. Because that's who would be pressuring you at that point. Unless of course, you are already feeling pressure from carrying a scum role as it is. When sheepsaysmeep put a feather on your back, it caused you to squawk out "With reason!".

um, im not sure what you're talking about, but i squaked cuz luca got to fishy before me, and in a way that makes interpreting whether he's actually doing the tell way harder. There's no real point in not being transparent about it; scum will do scum tells again if they're legit tells and none of y'all know me well enough to cater your play to me.

That's good explaining.

you just say like this is good, that is good, these are wagons, now these are wagons, i agree with this
can you provide some more opinions of your own?

[sheepsaysmeep]

wait what is wrong with this thing

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

I’m also currently willing to vote for havingfitz if the wagon was to switch to him. Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

mutantdevle is town.

what's town about that post?

oi i asked dat first <o/

[sheepsaysmeep]

Guys Elmo

what

[sheepsaysmeep]

UNVOTE: IceGuy

Guys Elmo

what

Hes wanting to go into night one already

Why shouldn't we?

(Also sorry for getting your pronoun wrong previously)

Also, current lynch pool for me (in order of appearance on the playerlist):

Yuria
Fishy
Elmo
kelbris
Viome

Everyone else I either think is town or don't want to lynch for some other reason. I'm also not sold on the Ectomancer suspicion.

youre forgetting our wonderful lurker me
admittedly lurking bc schoolwork but will read up later today or tomorrow

[sheepsaysmeep]

i would think that you forgot me because everyone else is town or you dont want to lynch for some reason
why dont you want to lynch me/why do you read me town for lurking

[sheepsaysmeep]

197 might look like a quality post but it's a 2 liner with messed up formatting
unless our ideas of "quality" differ

[sheepsaysmeep]

mightve thought the part of ecto's post he saw was "quality"

[sheepsaysmeep]

eyo wuss poppin

[sheepsaysmeep]

Your reasons are either this a last-ditch attempt to keep yourself alive because you are scum or you are a town member that is incredibly salty that they are being voted for. Either way that's not someone I'd want in the game. I've played with people who get salty and whine when they are on the receiving end of a wagon and they are no fun to play with at all.

confbias

[sheepsaysmeep]

someone hydra with me http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... ost1682513

[sheepsaysmeep]

give the replacement a chance to claim...

[sheepsaysmeep]

give the replacement a chance to claim...

This is a bad idea for 2 reasons.

The only thing that would prevent most of us from lynching the spot would be if the replacement role claimed as a power role. That is bad as it would result in a counterclaim exposing one of our PRs. If Elmo was a PR they would have role claimed by now. Overall, it would just be unfair on the replacement or do damage to the town.

Second of all, it's impossible for us to know if Elmo genuinely doesn't want to play anymore or this is the tactic the scum have come up with. Giving the replacement a chance is exactly what the mafia would want us to do to steer us off the scent of Elmo's slot being scum or delay the game as much as possible.



@Elmo if you genuinely don't want to play then vote for yourself. You would no longer have to commit to the game and it would prevent time being wasted on finding a replacement.

VOTE: mutant

[sheepsaysmeep]

ppl can agree with each other that's not necessarily buddying thx

[sheepsaysmeep]

hi

[sheepsaysmeep]

why should boring claim if we're not lynching boring

[sheepsaysmeep]

i'll post something good tonight while im pretending im doing homework

[sheepsaysmeep]

nice omgus

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: trans

[sheepsaysmeep]

popping in real quick
rem is towny for immedieately after replacing in actively scumhunting and providing unique opinions like in 583 and 586
trans is kind of scum pinging me for after kelbris's vote overreacting me
boring is town for similar reasons to rem

other ppl after i play piano

[sheepsaysmeep]

don't call people baboons
let's keep it civil

[sheepsaysmeep]

Spoiler:

Ectomancer

looks

town

. The post above is my favorite (try to focus on the motivation behind a post like that rather than the content). The way he cheered on Luca looked very town motivated too. He engaged Elmo productively, or at least tried. He also appears motivated to move the game along.

I want to reduce

Ectomancer

to

townlean

because I can't think up any town motivation for wanting me -- or anyone -- to claim right now.

- If I'm a PR, that's a bad idea.
- If I'm a VT, it narrows the pool of potential PRs for scum, which is a bad idea.
- If I'm scum, it risks drawing out a PR, which is a bad idea.
- If he thinks I'm scum and he wants to pin me down to claim, then it brings us back to the above-mentioned bad ideas, and begs the question: why not just vote me?

I am voting you and I don't expect a claim until L-1. Your wagon has the most information. The other wagons are crap. When I move my vote it will be to Iceguy.
IceGuy and Yuria are scum on the Kelbris wagon together. Mutant is our lovable but mafia challenged townie, and Transcend is Transcend. That makes Fishy town. Having called out the IceGuy and Yuria scum pair I need to be taken out which makes havingfitz scum number 3.

GG all.

unvote

if fitz/iceguy/yuria is your scumteam vote the scumread you trust most

[sheepsaysmeep]

hi why is the only defense from trans every time "im obv town"

[sheepsaysmeep]

how is it that we get a scumslot to L-1 and then you chimpanzees find some creative way to derail that lynch and form a tvt cross

i'm one of the power roles i'm not hardclaiming let scum kill me tonight and then sheep my reads

town almost never acts this confident

[sheepsaysmeep]

UNVOTE:
but you went from if one is wrong sheep/yuria is scum to if one is wrong yuria is scum
did you just forget me or do you have reason

[sheepsaysmeep]

he wanted yuria to jailkeep him to bait a nightkill apparently

[sheepsaysmeep]

newbie 1829 ended so i'll be putting in more effort here now

[sheepsaysmeep]

Y'all are forgetting scum know the prs, so a townie claiming one at random risks obvious problems at Mass claim later with no benefit since they would know the townie is lying. There's no reason for a townie to do it unless they're not thinking at all. I really can't believe him to be that senseless and he can't be allowed to live for long.

there's no reason for a scum to claim knowing he'll get cc'ed if you follow that logic :/
policy lynch is last resort

[sheepsaysmeep]

gg