Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[kelbris]

Hello everyone, let's have a great game.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep
everyone has their own way of saying hello, maybe dave's a Fat Albert fan.

[kelbris]

I don't think IceGuy is bad tbh. Looking at his posts so far, we have an RVS post, one that is advising someone else to NOT get the mod to confirm their IC role (a good idea tbh, since that would make the IC an easy target for maf) and one (which I agree with) saying that others are basically using 2 posts for their reads, neither of which are scum-posts.

I don't know if Transcend has been IC before, but it is possible that IceGuy was telling him just in case, lots of posts does not equal experience as roles such as IC, not voting for them yet because of the IC claim, it might be accurate, then again, I have never been in a game with that role before so idk.

I don't have any other reads right now, so I am going to

UNVOTE:
for now.

[kelbris]

I was voicing my opinion on the 2 main wagons in the game. People were voting Transcend because of his "IC" claim, and voting IceGuy because of his advice to not get the mod to reveal. So far, the only one I have any suspicion on is havingfitz because of his suggestion that Transcend should get the mod to confirm the IC claim D1, something which I believe does nothing but put a big target on the IC's back (unless there is a JK, but we don't know what the maf chose).

[kelbris]

Allow me to explain why I didn't mention/vote for fitz in my 2nd post. I was preparing to go out and therefore had not read through any posts other then those relevant to the 2 biggest wagons at that time. As for why I didn't vote for fitz during my 3rd post, I was busy and didn't think to vote at that point in time.
My opinion on fitz has changed however, he is no longer a clear scum read on my part, primarily due to post #109. DeasVail has joined him on my neutral list because I have seen nothing all too scummy. HOWEVER...

VOTE: Ectomancer
I REALLY dislike his pushing of the IceGuy wagon, considering at the point in time when Ecto made post #38, IceGuy had not done anything all too scummy (an RVS vote and a bit of advice to Transcend not to get the mod to reveal hardly seem scummy).

[kelbris]

to answer the question asked in post #125, havingfitz essentially covered a lot of the reasons I had for suspecting him with some reasonable answers. He makes a very valid point regarding Transcend's initial claim and I agree with him on the fact that Transcend's claim could have caused the real IC to reveal themselves-something which is NOT good for the town (unless there is a JK).

[kelbris]

I would like to know this as well. I am honestly considering voting to get Elmo to L-1, I honestly disagree with his opinion on early game reads. I have seen several games played where scum have been successfully found with reads from within the first 2 pages. I am eager to see if he can convince everyone that he is town, rather then just attacking the wagon.

[kelbris]

It was never my intention to appear scummy. I was voicing my disapproval of Elmo's recent posts and stating that experience has taught me that not all early-game reads are bad, which is true.

VOTE: Elmo

Elmo is at L-1

[kelbris]

I am afraid I MIGHT be V/LA for the next couple of days, depending on how bad this storm damages the power grid in my area.

really sorry everyone, figured it best to play it safe just in case the power goes out in my area. If nothing happens, the V/LA will be removed later today/tomorrow.

[kelbris]

Back, will read up on the game and respond/give reads later on today/tomorrow.

[kelbris]

Here's the first part of my reads so far. Sorry for seeming like I am coasting, seems like every time I try to make a decent post, I have to go somewhere (or the post glitches out and doesn't post).

1. Elmo/boring-Whilst I did join the Elmo wagon initially, some of Elmo's later posts prior to his replacing out make me wonder if he truly is town. Reading Boring's posts puts him firmly in my townreads. To Elmo-if you are reading this, I am sorry for taking part in a wagon that ultimately gave you the need to replace out of this game. Anyway, back to boring-I completely understand where he is coming from regarding my posts, quite frankly-whenever I try to make a decent one, for some reason this site puts me into a login loop and I wind up losing all that hard work. I also appreciate the work boring put into his other reads. To be more specific-The way Elmo was focused on attacking those within the wagon on her (as in #235 and #247) was why I voted for her aside from wanting to see a claim.

UNVOTE:

2. Deas-as of right now, Deas is a town lean in my book. After reading through his entire ISO, I quite frankyl don't see anything that stands out as scummy.

3. Ectomancer-Me and Ecto have the same reason for voting for Elmo as per post #564. Ecto stated that he voted for Elmo in order to get a claim, which is actually the exact reason why I had done so. Let me take a quick break from the reads for a sec to explain-when I saw the large wagon on Elmo that was at L-2, my first thought was "well, maybe we can get a role claim and put an end to the tunneling", which is why I voted for him. I also like Ecto's content since I unvoted for him and am seriously considering voting IceGuy for now, therefore, Ecto is in my null/town list for now.

4. Fishythefish-town lean, I will admit that fishy made a point that I had not even considered when I was town-reading IceGuy. I didn't consider Transcend's claim a jokeclaim (thought the chile was a mistype) and was going off the basis that transcend was new to being an IC, having realised that this is not the case/it was a jokeclaim, IG's advice not to get the mod to confirm actually does come off as more of a "make me look good" post. I also like how fishy takes boring's posts into account rather then focusing solely on the slot as a whole rather then the players that have controlled it.

5. havingfitz-town. After ISOing fitz, I must say I like how he breaks down the way PYP normally works, since this is actually my first time in a PYP game. I also understand where he was coming from regarding the whole transcend situation, which he explained in post #146.

6. IceGuy-null/scum, whilst post #21 reeks of a "make me look helpful/good" mentality, his later posts have put him into my slight scumlean pool and out of the "definite scum" pool. I would be comfortable in voting for him, but I am not going to as right now-there is someone else who I believe is 100% scum and that is...

7. Transcend-scum, the fact that he tried to use a blatant lie to get the people that voted for me to join the boring wagon REALLY comes off as scummy to me. I am of course referring to post #571 where he claims to be a mason with me-I am NOT a mason with Transcend. You then have his pushing of images trying to get a lynch on Elmo/boring's slot with no regard for the actual content they have posted. Both of these things make me suspect that Transcend is NOT town (or at least willing to lie to get boring lynched).

As a result of all this, I am going to

VOTE: Transcend

and I am going to stay on him unless he explains why the hell he lied about us being Masons to get his boring/Elmo lynch. Mason is not even a possible choice for the mafia in this PYP.

[kelbris]

Just popped in to say-I do not care for Transcend's "you're a fucking idiot go die" post, nor will I "GTFO". You put up a claim and a lie to try to get people to lynch boring, whom I believe to be town and whom you kept tunneling. I simply did not wish for your lie to go on, even if it meant that I would be under suspicion of being mafia again, I would rather prove my alignment through my own actions rather then letting someone else lie to get the job done.

[kelbris]

Quite frankly, your "mason" post did not come off as a joke, I saw it as a way to get someone you were tunneling lynched, which is what made me go after you for it. All you would have had to do was say "jk" or something to the effect of "it was a joke" and all would have been fine, but your post telling me to die/GTFO...no, just no

since my main point has been debunked, going to UNVOTE: from Transcend and VOTE: IceGuy since he is the only other one in my scumleans right now.

[kelbris]

I knew that's what you meant Transcend, When I said I wasn't going to "die" or "GTFO", I meant that I was not going to let what you said convince me to replace out. Unless something major comes up IRL, I prefer to stick to the game until I die.

[kelbris]

Allow me to explain why I failed to realise that the Mason thing was a joke/impossible. When I looked at the intro post for this game, I missed the part where it listed the possible roles for mafia to choose, and believed that the sample PMs were just a few examples of what Maf could choose (first ever PYP game, first non-micro game in AGES). As a result of this (and reading the wiki page for Mason where it mentions Innocent Child) I started to think that the Mason claim was legitimate and that the IC one was not just a mere joke, rather a hint at his true role.

P.S. the part of the page that made me think such silly thoughts? It actually says "A single Mason is equivalent to an Innocent Child." I am not above admitting when I fucked up, which I did this time.

[kelbris]

prodge, got my brothers over for the weekend.

[kelbris]

Well, that makes things more interesting. Going to read through more of day 1, will post again once I find something noteworthy.

[kelbris]

Transcend is definitely scum. He is the one who claimed JK, causing Yuria to CC and ultimately making town lose a PR which is NOT something a town-aligned player would do.

VOTE: Transcend

[kelbris]

tbh, the way Transcend would constantly change his claim makes me suspect that he is rolefishing. Even though his mason and IC claims were BS, I am of the opinion that his vigilante claim and JK claim were an attempt to get a CC and lure out the town's PRs. Why else would he suddenly switch his claim? He claims to want to be night kill bait (with his quoting of said comment) but I find that hard to believe because of his claims-why would a PR want to be NK'd? It just makes no sense.

[kelbris]

Prodge, will make an actual post later on today/tomorrow. Been busy IRL.

[kelbris]

I would just like to say-why WOULDN'T someone CC? It is true that by CC'ing you out yourself as that role, but it makes the person who was CC'D look really scummy by comparison.

tbh, I am starting to see where Transcend is coming from with his belief that the Lil/Viomi/Rem/ProHawk slot is scum, looking back at Lil's posts, he didn't even try to explain why he voted, simply claiming that he "didn't like" Deas's post saying that he is paranoid that his 3 town reads are scum, then asking mutant why effect is alignment indicative to him.

Then we have Viomi, who got really angry with Transcend for commenting on her V/LA, it was obvious that Viomi had not read the thread yet because of her comment on Deas's scum-reading of her(which was due to Lil's posts). BTW @Transcend, by tone were you referring to Viomi's sarcasm in post #368?

Next, we have Rem, who had made a vote on Sheep simply giving a "OMGUS" reason for doing so (assuming OMGUS is the right term for "just because". You then have Rem's comment that Sheep's "contributing with every post" is objectively wrong, basically saying that town should have some fluff posts, which IMO depends on a player's style of play.

I would like to see some more posts from ProHawk before I finalise my read on that slot, but I will admit-it is looking kinda scummy.

[kelbris]

I honestly don't know. I did believe that his claims were an act of rolefishing, but after he mentioned his "Gambit" and reading into some of his past games, I agree with the opinion on his wiki page that he "misses hard" sometimes and "hits hard" others, IF this is in fact a gambit, then I would be quite surprised, however I can not deny that it is a distinct possibility, and he has not put nearly as much emotion into his posts as Viomi did (which is/was a potential scumtell back in the day).

Before I make my final decision, I would like to see Transcend's answer to my question to him in the Viomi section of my reads list. I would also like to know-is being night-kill bait a real thing? Because if so, then that puts his vig/JK claim into a different light and would help determine my read on him.

[kelbris]

@Transcend did you see my question to you in my big post? I asked about your comments on Viomi's "tone" earlier in the game.

Aside from this, the reason I had not switched my vote to ProHawk yet despite the slot being in my scum reads is because I was waiting for more to see if there were any redeeming posts. Also, I noticed he mentioned he had "privileged information", that does...not sound like something that a townie would have, unless they are a PR.

VOTE: ProHawk

[kelbris]

I plan on reading Deas's and UCV's ISOs tonight, gotta take care of some stuff rn. Still waiting for an answer from Transcend (unless one was given and I missed it).

[kelbris]

prodge, will read through ISOs and post reads on UCV and Deas ASAP.

[kelbris]

Hm...In regards to UCV, I will admit that at first his posts appear to be town oriented, but later on it seems like he is getting more and more aggravated when it comes to posts like #1162, speaking of which, Mutant raised some very valid points regarding UCV in post #1162, such as how they never responded to various posts made about them. Also, Deas's post mentioning that scum are "less likely to be emotionally involved" goes against previous games i'v seen/been in, not saying that is scummy, but normally I have found scum to be a bit more emotional in games (as have others, if the tips page is anything to go by).

VOTE: UCV

[kelbris]

you know Transcend, I gave you the benefit of the doubt with your "gambit" yesterday, but that hammer REALLY comes off as you attempting to bus a teammate, that and the fact that you never once answered my question regarding your "comment" on Viomi puts you firmly in my scum list.

VOTE: Transcend

[kelbris]

wait wait wait, I just realised...perhaps Transcend is the cop, how else would he know that the cop has "inno" on him. Unvoting for now just in case the scum try for a quickhammer on him.

UNVOTE:

[kelbris]

because if Transcend is in fact cop, scum would want the cop gone at the earliest chance, since a lot of players suspect transcend of being scum, they can eliminate him without appearing scummy, at least, that's my take on the situation. Following on, IF Transcend is in fact cop, I suspect he might have used his ability on Boring, which is why he wants him gone.

VOTE: boring

@Transcend look, just say it-are you cop? The way you speak as though you know cop has inno when there are no masons, makes me suspect that you are in fact the cop yourself. If you aren't claiming cop, then you had best claim before I put my vote back on you.

[kelbris]

For your information mutant, the reason I switched is because I made my first post before reading the few posts of day 3, upon doing so I started to believe that perhaps Transcend was claiming cop, he blew that plan down with his VT claim.

[kelbris]

sigh, look Transcend, i'm sorry. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but every time I tried to convince myself you are town, you do shit that makes me think you are red.

VOTE: Transcend

P.S. he already claimed VT so I am not "quickhammering before he has a chance to claim" for those who have not read the day yet.

[kelbris]

The reason I added that PS at the end of my vote was because I thought that anyone who jumped straight to the latest post might not have noticed his VT claim, just like UCV didn't notice his JK claim until I pointed it out.

[kelbris]

btw boring, the reason I hammered when I did was because Transcend blasted every attempt I made to defend him into dust AND failed to answer my question, had he answered my question regarding Viomi, I might have been able to overlook his vt claim, but combining that claim (which for all I knew could have been BS like his other claims) and the fact that my question was ignored on multiple occasions, I saw no other course of action then to hammer.

[kelbris]

I understand what you mean about my hammering less then a day into the 3rd day being really bad, I followed my instincts on Transcend based on the information I had at my disposal and his play-style thus far.

[kelbris]

And in regards to boring's post regarding the claims, I would be glad to go first-VT. Ain't no special abilities here.

[kelbris]

Well, I am sorry but I gotta go V/LA for the next 2 days (AEST), going to be at the country teams chess tourney.

[kelbris]

I am back, I had no intention of "lying low until LyLo" as boring put it. I was simply more focused on events in real life rather then this game, good thing too since my team won the reserve shield in the country teams as a result (that's chess tournament btw). My reads on the lynch pool (minus myself obviously) are as follows:

ProHawk: scum-seems like he wanted to get me lynched before I had a chance to come back from V/LA, not even giving me a chance to make my reads list. Noticed how when Boring decided to vote for Deas he simply said "why DV over kelbris" and when DV voted for boring he simply said "why boring over kelbris". I suspect that he is partners with boring to be honest.

boring: scum-the way he pointed the finger solely at those that went V/LA or were busy IRL seems to me like he is choosing the easiest targets to go for a mislynch, especially since we both claimed VT, meaning it would be easier to get said mislynch.

DeasVail: town-has made some really good posts (such as #1485) and in general seems one of the least likely to be scum in my book.

mutant: town-if he is indeed PR as he claims, then I see no reason that he is scum. I also agree with what he said regarding Transcend's lynch.

Fish: town-post #1478 really strikes me as a town-aligned post, I have also not seen anything scummy from them today.

VOTE: boring

Once again, sorry for the V/LA but when a big event is on IRL I prefer to put my focus solely on that.

[kelbris]

@mutant I was reading through havingfitz's post #1438, my mistake. Didn't see that he had corrected it.

[kelbris]

Well, I am not gonna change my claim, since I am honestly a VT. I would also like to say, how is it reaching for suspecting someone that makes posts like #1484 and #1486 are rushing for a lynch on me? I will post my reads (based on all days) ASAP. However my opinion on ProHawk being scum will not change, based on what his slot has done in the past during this game. Finally, keep in mind that there are 2 scum, meaning that just because one of them may not have gone anywhere, does NOT mean they are inno.

[kelbris]

You say that you had yet to vote for me, but perhaps you wanted someone else to get the wagon going rather then starting it yourself. I never said that YOU voted for me, only that you were trying to convince others to vote for me, possibly in an attempt to point the finger at them for starting the wagon once I flipped.

[kelbris]

Here are my reads of the lynch pool, using the whole game's info.

boring: starting to lean towards him being town, I really like his early-game play such as post #437, as well as post #1516 (which I didn't really check the links of until now admittedly). Which actually explains why he went after Deas-he has played with him before/went through his previous games, something which I never really thought of doing myself.

ProHawk: still suspect him as scum, primarily because of the way his slot acted in the past, I also admit that I dislike his "i am scum for him now" post as being his reason to vote for me.

fish: town, haven't seen anything REALLY incriminating on him to be honest.

Deas: this is where my opinion changes drastically, I am convinced that he is scum, comparing his play in this game to the games that boring linked (thanks for that btw) I agree that this is the scum!Deas that we are dealing with.

VOTE: Deas

[kelbris]

I knew that was not a hammer, checked who had voted on Deas before I did so. Also, I suspected that you were trying to get someone else to start the ball rolling, this way when I flipped town, suspicion might be diverted to them. TL:DR I thought you were trying to get someone else to start a wagon, so you could slip on it later, such as say position #2 or 3, thereby appearing less scummy.

[kelbris]

See, here's the thing-I remember looking into Transcend, and according to a little tidbit I had read, he either "hits hard, or misses hard". IF ProHawk is scum, then I would suspect that he was spot on, if PH is actually town, then I would say it's a "misses big" situation. As to why I suspect Deas of being mafia, It seems to me that he conveniently "forgets/doesn't think of" information that could go against him or his actual vote count. I would also like to say that the way he wants to get boring lynched, is really reminiscent of his scumplay in the mini game that boring linked.

And yes DV, these are actual things that boring mentioned. Both here, and in the other scum game.

[kelbris]

I would say that boring is town.

[kelbris]

EBWOP: will post more tomorrow, 2:40AM here and I am going to bed.

[kelbris]

tbh, I kinda saw that coming. The minute havingfitz said "i'll try to track someone", I knew he would be the night's target. Scum couldn't allow him to figure out who didn't visit anyone, especially if maf killed since it would essentially prove that they weren't scum, narrowing down the mislynch pool.

[kelbris]

I think that fishy and boring are VT, ProHawk is mafia and that Mutant is either Tracker or Cop.

[kelbris]

Honestly? I reckon the reason the Mafia targeted HavingFitz is because he would have figured out that I was VT, leaving only boring and Pro as the only 2 possibilities, if we take Mutant's post regarding boring into account, that would leave ProHawk as the last scum. by killing Fitz, that allows scum to keep me in the mislynch pool, think about it-most of you were scum-reading me yesterday, meaning Fitz would probably have checked me to see whether I could visit anyone-if maf killed and I didn't visit, would mean I was conf-town.

[kelbris]

I actually got the tracker idea from the same post from Havingfitz that made me suspect he was going to be NK'd. He said "Good luck mutant if you survive and get a pr action off (i.e. track)." I started to wonder if there were 2 trackers because of that.

[kelbris]

Look, I get it. I have made quite a few stupid mistakes this game, however I AM VT, and if you think that lynching me would help, then by all means do it. I know that town can still absorb one mislynch, and I am volunteering myself for that. A fair amount of stuff has been going on IRL, and so I didn't really take notes regarding this game (therefore I forgot about my post from last month). However, I am certain from what Mutant has said, combined with the fact that from what I gather, sheep is conf-town, that the lynch pool is myself and ProHawk.

Also, @boring in regards to my flip-flopping between M/F, sometimes I just get a bit mixed up, nothing that should be taken as alignment indicative.

VOTE: Prohawk

[kelbris]

That is a nice meta dive btw, you do make a very valid point. As town, I normally do try to explain my thought processes a bit better and am generally easier to sway then as scum. Primarily because as town, I would switch to whomever seems the most scummy, whereas when I am scum, I WANT that mislynch, so I stick to my guns unless something major is revealed which would incriminate me if they were lynched. In regards to my "meta can be changed" comment from a previous game, I had legitimately forgotten about that (been a while between my last game and this game). Will have to find out what tinfoiling means though, never seen that phrase used in mafia before.

[kelbris]

I was thinking-IF I were lynched and revealed as town, how would that affect people's reads on the lynch pool? From what I have read, boring is highly unlikely to be scum, leaving it down to sheep and ProHawk. What's everyone's thoughts on this hypothetical scenario?

[kelbris]

I admit I got the two mixed up. I meant Fish, not sheep. My question still stands though, if it came down to just those 2 in the pool, who would you suspect of being scum. Even IRL I get names mixed up sometimes. Much as I hate to admit it. I am still certain that ProHawk is the last scum however, been reading through Fish's ISO and haven't found anything that really screams scummy to me.

[kelbris]

Already claimed-VT. Go ahead and hammer.

[kelbris]

GG, glad town won out in the end.