Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[DeasVail]

Hey hey hey

[DeasVail]

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

Welp Your dead tonight

VOTE: Dead I mean Deas
Long time

Yeah! It’s great to be playing with you again.

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

[DeasVail]

Welcome! I hope you enjoy playing here

[DeasVail]

Also

UNVOTE: Elmo
VOTE: IceGuy

[DeasVail]

Are people seriously basing a scumread on two posts, one of which is RVS?

It seems pretty usual to me that people exaggerate the significance of their thoughts early game in order to actually have something to talk about. Is that your experience too?

[DeasVail]

I don't think IceGuy is bad tbh. Looking at his posts so far, we have an RVS post, one that is advising someone else to NOT get the mod to confirm their IC role (a good idea tbh, since that would make the IC an easy target for maf) and one (which I agree with) saying that others are basically using 2 posts for their reads, neither of which are scum-posts.

I don't know if Transcend has been IC before, but it is possible that IceGuy was telling him just in case, lots of posts does not equal experience as roles such as IC, not voting for them yet because of the IC claim, it might be accurate, then again, I have never been in a game with that role before so idk.

I don't have any other reads right now, so I am going to

UNVOTE:
for now.

way different from scum enterance in dat one shitty micro i played with kelbris
but micro and normal are dif

You’re saying words but also not saying anything...

[DeasVail]

Town reads so far: Kelbris, Transcend, Mutant
I want to say Ectomancer too but there’s a little more doubt there.

I’m also very torn on IceGuy right now.

[DeasVail]

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

[DeasVail]

Transcend, your play at the beginning of the game was very out there and attracted a lot of attention, and was quite risky from a scum perspective. However, an argument could also be made for your approach being pro-town.

Why do you disagree?

Posts to be cont

[DeasVail]

My reads haven’t necessarily changed btw.

I’m at work and haven’t had the chance to update them.

[DeasVail]

I’ve looked over kelbris’s posts again and I can’t actually work out why I townread him. Maybe it was ~the vibe~. It’s weird because I remember thinking he was my strongest townread, which is why I put him first in my list. I’ll let you know if I work it out.

I was worried about mutant after skimming his big post, but on reread I still think he is town.

Transcend is still a townread, but I’m still interested in an answer to my posts.

[DeasVail]

*post

[DeasVail]

!!!!!!!!

I’m on phone and don’t have much time so I’m not going to bother with vote tags, but I would be voting Elmo right now.

The timing of his mutant vote and suspicion is very suspect.

- Mutant gains suspicion for his long reads post
- Suspicion on Mutant is then on the verge of dying down.
- Elmo makes a post pushing the same thing as other people were earlier, Except it’s sort of outdated and Mutant is really looking quite town imo now. THEN there’s the post about it not being because he necessarily thinks the post is from scum which really screams of not committing himself to the stance. If he thinks mutants post was useless but not scum my, why vote for Mutant? Especially considering the issue has already been discussed and he’s already received “pressure” for it, so that can’t be the reason.

Also Ice why are you voting for Luca?

[DeasVail]

oops I forgot that I was already voting for Elmo. Well there you go!

And Transcend,

Town reading me makes me think you're informed lol

I would still appreciate an explanation of this.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: elmo

night time bitches

Strong suspicion of Transcend for not waiting for a claim, regardless of Elmo's alignment. You could use the argument that it's too ballsy for scum to do, but that is what a player like Transcend is going to bank on. Maybe it's pointless me saying this and I'll just get ignored, but it's worth trying at least.

[DeasVail]

he was already on the wagon lol

I assumed transcend was going for a reaction from Elmo. Unlikely to yield anything too useful imo, but I’ve always wondered if scum would ever try to fake a townslip in that situation.

[DeasVail]

IceGuy, I knew that Transcend was already on the wagon.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: IceGuy

Guys Elmo

what

Hes wanting to go into night one already

Why shouldn't we?

(Also sorry for getting your pronoun wrong previously)

Also, current lynch pool for me (in order of appearance on the playerlist):

Yuria
Fishy
Elmo
kelbris
Viome

Everyone else I either think is town or don't want to lynch for some other reason. I'm also not sold on the Ectomancer suspicion.

[DeasVail]

Deas, you said earlier in the game you were 'very torn' on IceGuy and I see you've now unvoted and excluded him from your lynch pool.

Can you walk me through your read progression of IceGuy so far?

12: I remember thinking that I might RVS this as it seemed slightly over-explanatory, but overall not that significant.

I became more concerned at 33, as I was pretty sure it was a usual thing for people to exaggerate "scumreads" in early game and so it seemed overly defensive. 48 had a similar vibe, as I didn't get that impression from Ectomancer at all.

However, I then liked his approach to mutant. He expressed suspicion of mutant's reads list but also took initiative in working out whether this was something alignment-indicative for mutant or not (a step beyond the other players in the game from memory)

Since then, I think his approach to the Elmo wagon has been fairly town, as was his suspicion of me followed by unvote.

He is a townread for me at this point in time.

Also, current lynch pool for me (in order of appearance on the playerlist):

Yuria
Fishy
Elmo
kelbris
Viome

Would you mind explaining why those people are in your lynch pool?

Elmo is the only person I explicitly have a scumread on (I am still of this opinion, as well, fwiw).

The other four stand out to me as people that have not made much of an impression. I explicitly do not read them as town, nor do I have another good reason for keeping them around. (E.g. I'm not sure about my read on havingfitz but I have played with him before and expect that I will have a better idea as the game goes on. Luca is someone that is very pro-town, but I haven't formed a solid opinion on his actual alignment yet. However, I would be unlikely to lynch him as I feel that his alignment will become obvious with time).

[DeasVail]

Luca is someone that is very pro-town, but I haven't formed a solid opinion on his actual alignment yet. However, I would be unlikely to lynch him as I feel that his alignment will become obvious with time).

Can you explain why being 'very pro-town' hasn't caused you to townread me? Especially considering you were dishing out town reads willy-nilly earlier on in 59.

By pro-town I mean things like good activity and engagement with the game, making pushes, asking questions of people, 'scumhunting' (or at least the appearance of it), that sort of thing. It makes up a part of my reads but not all of it, because the thing about that kind of stuff is that it's not too hard for scum to fake. I am not sure why I put kelbris in my town list earlier because as many times as I've looked at his first three posts, I cannot figure out what it was that I saw, but mutant and Transcend both had things about their posting where I thought 'this is very unlikely to come from scum'. I don't think you've reached that point for me yet, but I think there's a reasonable chance that you would in time, especially if you are in fact town.

I also am similarly concerned by kelbris' recent post.

UNVOTE: IceGuy

Guys Elmo

what

Hes wanting to go into night one already

Why shouldn't we?

(Also sorry for getting your pronoun wrong previously)

Also, current lynch pool for me (in order of appearance on the playerlist):

Yuria
Fishy
Elmo
kelbris
Viome

Everyone else I either think is town or don't want to lynch for some other reason. I'm also not sold on the Ectomancer suspicion.

youre forgetting our wonderful lurker me
admittedly lurking bc schoolwork but will read up later today or tomorrow

I'm confused. Do you think you should be in my lynch pool?

---

At this point I think it is most likely that I will be advocating for an Elmo lynch, but I am keen to see further posting from her, as well as posting from Viome.

[DeasVail]

i would think that you forgot me because everyone else is town or you dont want to lynch for some reason
why dont you want to lynch me/why do you read me town for lurking

Oh I think you're town.

You've got a very clear openness about not having read the thread properly in a way that I believe reveals not having much care for what people in the game think of you, but then there are also some quality posts in there, such as 197

I also found 178 to be quite town. I think scum would have been more hesitant about laying bare transcend's plan. (If transcend is scum, then this doesn't work, however).

[DeasVail]

197 might look like a quality post but it's a 2 liner with messed up formatting
unless our ideas of "quality" differ

Oh dear, I've just realised. And yep no somehow I missed the formatting issue. That all makes a lot more sense now and I'm not sure how it affects my read of you. I had a picture in my head that was never actually true.

[DeasVail]

197 might look like a quality post but it's a 2 liner with messed up formatting
unless our ideas of "quality" differ

The fact Deas didn't realise this suggests he's not following the game as closely as he should....

This is correct, I'm afraid. I will try to do better.

[DeasVail]

Yeah

[DeasVail]

VOTE: kelbris

You hit several scum points at once. You were pretty active in the early game, but after the town reads on you took a backseat. Then comes #253, which Luca has already rightfully called out, and now you put her at L-1 for pretty much no reason at all while stating that "it was not your intention to appear scummy". It's nobody's intention to look scummy. You should state what's your town motivation, instead.

What were the townreads on kelbris? I only recall mine and that was more of a mistake than anything else.

I don't think I'm on board with voting for Ice Guy at this point though.

I've looked through Elmo's posts again and all I see is scum. I'm very tempted to just lynch the slot and save the mod the trouble of finding a replacement etc, but I'm holding off for now.

[DeasVail]

I’m at work, but

VOTE: Elmo

[DeasVail]

why'd you hold off if you were comfortable with putting her at l-1 lol

Ive since decided that I’m okay with going ahead with the lynch. I probably would have hammered if I had checked the thread before your unvote.

[DeasVail]

meh.. UNVOTE: I can wait for a replacement to give me a different look on that slot

I don't really think there is anything a replacement could add that would make us decide not to lynch. If this slot was a power role then Elmo would have said by now. Giving a replacement a chance to redeem the slot would be what the mafia would want us to do if Elmo was scum.

This is similar to what my thought process has become. There’s the chance that a replacement would “redeem” the slot, but the most likely thing imo is that Elmo is actually scum and so any redeeming in that case would not be a good thing. I just want to know what Elmo is and move on.

[DeasVail]

Only problem is if Elmo flips Town we gain absolutely nothing from today: It's such an easy wagon that nothing could be gained from analysing it.

There's also slots like the Viome one that haven't contributed at all today - I would like them to before the day is out otherwise they have just been given a complete free pass for D1.

I disagree that there would be nothing gained if Elmo were town. I haven’t analysed things with Elmo-town in mind except for brief snippets of thought here and there, but I find that even with “easy” mislynches it can be very revealing looking at how people approach the wagon. Sometimes the easier the mislynch the more transparent the scum in my experience. But I really don’t think this is a mislynch.

[DeasVail]

Deas, what would be your thoughts if Elmo flipped Town?

I don’t have time right now to go through things with an Elmo-town mindset (and I tend not to read things with the assumption of a particular alignment until there’s a flip because I’m a slow thinker and also a bit lazy), but I would look at things like how people interacted around the wagon. With an easy mislynch I’d expect scum to feel almost guilty about being associated with it and see if that were betrayed by their posts. I’d also pay attention to more generic things that could be amplified by the situation, such as an increased self-consciousness and care put into how they look with anything Elmo-related. And if someone is avoiding the wagon, why are they avoiding it. Do the reasons feel informed? Are they trying to look town by not mislynching Elmo? It’s difficult speaking in general terms like this without examples, but that’s the best I can do.

I also think it’s very unlikely that Elmo is a town PR and I don’t think kelbris is as likely to be scum.

[DeasVail]

I don't think the case on Elmo is strong enough that it's not worth hearing from a replacement. While there are some OK reasons for it, I think this wagon has largely happened through Transcend repeating "Elmo is scum" often enough.

I am happy with that compromise.

[DeasVail]

I'm going to need a few of you to unvote for a little bit.

Why?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: boring

I need to review this read and I can’t right now.

PEdit:

No I’m innocent chyle!

[DeasVail]

I haven’t had the chance to read through it properly yet.

I need to at least pretend to be working at work!

[DeasVail]

Yeah, can we not lynch mutant please? That would be bad.

[DeasVail]

I've just read up but I'm too tired right now to process the back-and-forth properly. My gut reaction to boring's entrance was actually that I liked it. I'll read through again tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Hey guys, sorry for being somewhat absent for a bit. I'm ready to get back into this though, and I think it's time to do a proper think through my reads. I'll try to keep things brief for the sake of readability (unless I feel elaboration is necessary). I may also ask questions of certain player's in another player's "section", so please at least scan for your name if not reading my post entirely thoroughly.

-

Yuria - Read Pending

First, now that I'm going specifically through your ISO, I realise I never responded to 420. There's not too much I can say other than that my instinct upon the replace-out request was to at least wait for the replacement, but then I realised that there was not all that much logical reason to do so. As for my read on the slot now? I don't want to lynch it.

I am also mildly concerned by the above line of questioning from Yuria, since I feel it was a reasonably obvious change of mind that shouldn't have needed much explanation. So, I'm not sure why the push, but meh, it's not a strong reason to think that Yuria is scum.

My read at this stage will largely depend on something that I'm waiting for from Yuria, and I don't want to disclose this yet. Feel free to make me explain it in a couple of RL days if I haven't by then.

Boring, I would appreciate hearing from you on how Yuria's posts that you quoted display a lack of care for what people think of her. (I know they aren't the exact words you used, but I don't remember exactly what)

-

Ectomancer - Weak Town

*This read needs to be revised if Boring flips town*

I generally like their posts. Particularly ~town~ things for me are:
- Thoughts on Transcend in 546, which largely aligns with my thinking at this stage of the game.
- The sudden vote on Elmo in 172 also seems unlikely from scum, but I may reconsider this in the event that boring is scum, as I could maybe see it coming from a scumbuddy.
- 199 is a nice post too, but I can't explain why very well.

-

IceGuy - Weak Town

What I said in 246 still holds for the most part. The weakness from the read comes from a lack of much else that is significant to me at the moment, as well as ongoing concerns regarding his first few posts of the game.

-

Transcend - Weak Scum

I can't explain this read very well, but I remember getting the impression at the beginning of the game that despite the trolliness and hyper-posting, there was a pro-town agenda there. I could see a strong town argument for how Transcend was approaching the game. However, now as I'm looking through his posts, I'm struck by the odd feeling that Transcend doesn't really have that much belief in his reads or what he's saying. It feels.... hollow somehow. I don't want to pursue this scumread (if you could even call it that) right now and it's probably the least confident of all my reads, but it's something I will be thinking about.

-

Fishythefish - Town

It's like a direct contrast from the the Transcend read above. His posts clearly come from the place of someone trying to work out the game, but also without any element of "showiness" that I might expect from scum.

-

Boring - Somewhere between town and scum

Elmo's play perfectly fit the mold of caught scum for me, but I need to account for the likelihood of confirmation bias there as boring's posts in isolation probably wouldn't lead me to a scumread on the slot. Elmo's play will always have an impact on my read here, but there are things from boring that I do like. I like that she took on Luca Blight, one of the more prolific and dominant posters upon entering the thread. As weird as it might sound, I like the back-and-forth that she's done on her read of me. The way she's done it feels town to me. Nothing SUPERTOWN, though.

(Mild niggle from her suspicion of me for putting "easy targets" in the lynch pool, when she came in attacking Luca Blight. Did she do that because she associates going after stronger players with town? Hmmm.)

I will be watching you!

-

mutantdevle - Town

My thoughts have largely been in line with those others have posted and so there's not much for me to add here.

-

Luca Blight - Weak Town

It may be needless paranoia that's holding me back from putting him as an outright townread here, but I originally had town next to his name and it just didn't sit right with me. I don't know why. In any case, he has consistently good scumhunting posts. Nothing in his ISO reads as scummy to me. There's also nothing where I go "scum wouldn't do that!", and I don't get that incredibly strong impression of authenticity that I get from fishy, but maybe the good scumhunting, probing posts/questions etc. should be reason enough. I will think on this too.

-

kelbris - Weak Scum

There's not much there and again, I have found myself agreeing with other people's posts on him. I don't think I'll be voting there right now though.

-

sheepsaysmeep - Weak Scum

In the interest of full disclosure, I've gone into this reads list thinking that this is where I'd end up voting. He's coasted by with very little attention while doing barely anything and it does get to the point where my previous town-lean for his blatant "I'm not reading the thread" does not really fly anymore. And I think this is that time. I feel like town would have gotten their act together and actually tried to contribute by now, especially considering the uncertainty following boring's replace-in. While I guess there's no reason for scum to if he's not in the line of fire for it.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

-

havingfitz - Pending

I just need more at this stage. Town lean at a guess, but I'm struggling to find much in his posts that I find to be significant for alignment.

-

Viomi - Town

I know that a lot of people are calling it NAI, but I actually find her posting druing the replace out to be quite town. I think scum would have been much more likely to replace out and leave it at that, whereas Viomi continues to post after her request. The reason for this is that I think there is a lot less investment in the non-game aspects of in-game posts as scum. You're scum and not going to be the real you, so naturally I believe the investment level is lower. But this is clearly not the case with Viomi who seems genuinely hurt and frustrated in a way that I don't think scum would be.

[DeasVail]

Reads list for convenience.

TOWN: Fishythefish, Mutantdevle, Viomi

Weak town: Ectomancer, IceGuy, Luca Blight

Something else: Yuria, boring, havingfitz

Weak Scum: Transcend, kelbris, sheepsaysmeep

[DeasVail]

I can not get to this tonight sadly. I will be back when I can.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[DeasVail]

Too hard to do it all in one post on phone.

VOTE: transcend

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

[DeasVail]

VOTE: boring

Eh

L-1

(I think)

[DeasVail]

IceGuy(4) - boring, kelbris, Ectomancer, Transcend
Transcend(4) - Yuria, IceGuy, havingfitz, mutantdevle
boring(3) - Luca Blight, mutantdevle, Fishythefish
sheepsaysmeep(1) - Rem

not voting (1) - sheepsaysmeep

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
(expired on 2017-11-12 15:00:00)

I’m voting boring btw.

Also I don’t think I want to lynch Transcend

[DeasVail]

I think you're more likely to be scum, yeah.

[DeasVail]

I like your post and had very similar thoughts, except that I found 1) to be significantly more likely than 4). I'm not very familiar with the meta around lynching liars though, due to not playing much myself.

[DeasVail]

Regarding boring, I think this is the vote that I'm going to be advocating. I still have strong concerns from Elmo's play that are still very much there on a re-read. Boring's posts do cause me to question my read on the slot, but I do have some suspicions. I worry that the initial suspicion on Luca Blight was an attempt to "scumread" a non-easy target, rather than a legitimate scumread. I also don't like the posts implying that her chances of seeing Day 2 are slim, and the talk of scum on her wagon. But, these things are admittedly weak and there are things in boring's posts that I like too.

Despite the waffliness of the above, I think boring is the best lynch. I'm willing to discuss alternatives, but I may not agree.

[DeasVail]

I agree that boring is the best lynch. The way the wagon is coming and going and usually being rather townish makes me think the scum don't like it.

Any particular reason you don't think TranscendScum would pull this gambit?

It’s not impossible, but I lean towards no because of how unnecessary it was for Transcend scum considering the lack of danger and high risk of the gambit. Again though, not impossible.

[DeasVail]

Ecto, how did the first part of your post help you get to your conclusion? I don’t see it really.

[DeasVail]

I’m good with a boring lynch

[DeasVail]

VOTE: boring

boring is town...I would rather no lynch.

There’s not much time, but if you get the chance I’d like to hear your reasoning.

[DeasVail]

I'm going to stay with boring for now, but I will be online a couple of hours before the deadline to change my vote if needed.

[DeasVail]

Hey everyone, I will most likely not be here properly until tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Viomi - Town

I know that a lot of people are calling it NAI, but I actually find her posting druing the replace out to be quite town. I think scum would have been much more likely to replace out and leave it at that, whereas Viomi continues to post after her request. The reason for this is that I think there is a lot less investment in the non-game aspects of in-game posts as scum. You're scum and not going to be the real you, so naturally I believe the investment level is lower. But this is clearly not the case with Viomi who seems genuinely hurt and frustrated in a way that I don't think scum would be.

This is an interesting read. Deas goes out of his way to plant in people's minds that the nature of Viomi's replace out = town. Given Viomi was apparently upset for non game related reasons (the date of her V/LA being brought up struck a cord) I really don't see how Deas can be basing a strong town read on this.

My point here was essentially that scum are less emotionally invested in what people say to them in a game than town are. I’m happy for you to disagree with me but I do ask that you at least respect my read.

I am also curious of your read of me. You seem to be saying that I’m scum for going with the flow but then also criticise my Viomi read and my vote for sheep when it was not a popular wagon (even though there was still a reasonable amount of time before deadline). How would you explain the inconsistency here?

—

I’m terms of my reads, I do still want to revisit Day 1 posts, but Ectomancer is someone who was concerning me towards the end of Day 1. I cant really predict where my reads will end up right now though. I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

I’m going to have to V/LA for 2 days. I’m really sorry everyone. Work has been especially busy.

I plan on getting back into this in full force over the weekend though.

[DeasVail]

Hey peoples! I am doing after hours at work but it’s pretty chill so far, so I’m going to be going over stuff. Watch this space!

[DeasVail]

Im reading DV's iso and it is terrifying

He has several naked votes! This pings me for scum! I do not see where the town motivation in naked voting is
--------------------------------------------
He says that he scum reads sheep, transcend, and Kelbris then votes for Boring????? what the hell

earlier he made a crazy lynch pool then voted for Iceguy who wasn't even listed!
--------------------------------------------------

He has said things like
"scum are more emotionally involved"
This terrifies me because he hasn't been a huge power player. He is trying to tell us how scum act, so they can act differently, so he can avoid scum reads!
--------------------------------
he said that he won't be active til tomorrow
makes one post
i will be v/la for the next few days
I know that people can't control when they are v/la but the fact he made a post after he said he wouldn't be able to post for a day
----------------------------------
He was not pushing Boring til the end of day one. before that, he was pushing for someone else.
It really seems like he was trying to earn some town credit for not being on the wagon. I don't even see where he made a case on boring.
-----------------------------------
He town readed sheep for a while, then pulled a 180 and voted for me!


scum will avoid the lynch 30% of the time! They do this because it is easy town credit, and i am thinking there is a good chance of a scum buddy bussing!
------------------------------------
Im not sure if i think that transcend could be scum buddy, but im starting to think he isn't

Did you read my posts properly or not really? This is actually an important question that I need you to answer honestly.

[DeasVail]

Also Fitz is a townread for me. His refusal to play along with town norms is what I expect from him. My impression is that he tries to look better as scum by being more amenable/playing along just a little bit more.

My vote is going to go to Ectomancer when I have access to a computer.

Main things are his commentary on the vig claims which seemed to be trying really hard to make it into a 1v1 when it wasn’t necessarily and his high-information, low-content posting in general such as his vote on me. I get the impression that there’s a faked enthusiasm in his posting that he doesn’t believe in and his post about makes me suspicious of him trying to fuel my wagon without explicitly bandwagoning.

UC Voyager and boring are secondary scumreads for me right now, followed by kelbris.

I will most likely post more detail particularly on Ecto later

[DeasVail]

Hey Luca, I will respond to your specific points when I get the chance, but I will say now that I’ve been a lot busier than I expected to be and so it’s been a struggle to properly engage with this. I have to rely on snippets of free time I get at work here and there or reading through things quickly before I go to bed, so a lot of the time my stances are not going to make that much sense based on my previous posts and/or my reads will shift without me making a post about them.

[DeasVail]

@Luca: Regarding Fitz, I will dig up our past games together to show you what I mean when I’m not phone posting. Apologies for the delay.

I think Transcend is most likely town. I still believe that the JK claim is unlikely to come from scum.

Regarding the change in attention from Ectomancer to boring, I did lose a bit of my passion for a boring lynch towards the end of Day 1, however I also thought there was a fairly high risk of no lynch with the competing wagons and lack of consensus, and so I wasn’t going to attempt to introduce yet another wagon to the mix by pushing someone else.

Regarding my initial read on Ectomancer, obviously my read has changed? I liked his posting earlier in the game, but not enough to be confident in a townread, hence the weak read. He retracted his town read on Transcend at a very similar time to when I was questioning my Transcend townread, which is obviously not a locked in town tell but I thought it was more likely to be organic considering that I was having similar thoughts. And The post of yours I linked to was clearly not the post I meant.

His post about the jail keeper claims was what first alerted me to something perhaps being wrong with my read, because it was a whole lot of talking about the claims like a 1v1 situation and coming to a conclusion that did not at all follow from the contentless information preceding it. He has since then had very similar rather talky, but insubstantial posts such as 800, 864 and 972.

The post about waiting to hammer me feels particularly insincere. On the surface it would appear that he is wanting to lynch me but with a bit of bravado thrown in, in that he wants the hammer or whatever. But the problem here is that I don’t think im that close to being lynched. Given Day 1 events it’s quite likely that wagons will shift quite a bit over the course of the day, so the whole thing he says about being the hammer are empty words, a complete lack of commitment to scumreading me and I’m pretty sure he knows that.

The above was mostly written earlier in the day on phone but I didn’t get the chance to post it. I’ll post it now and see what’s been written since.

[DeasVail]

UC, your post on me has glaring inaccuracies and things that completely ignore context (as fishy has pointed out), so I don't understand how you could have read my posts properly?

[DeasVail]

Also,

VOTE: Ectomancer

@Ecto - I don't understand why you're holding out to be the hammer for Deas. It's an abrupt change from your D1 MO. Why not just vote, and then try to rally more votes?

Because at that position I can either drive the train forward or apply the brakes. It sort of depends upon how it arrives at that junction. It puts me in a stronger position of control than kick starting a wagon and rallying the troops. That's sufficient for D1, but not really optimal for D2.

What happens if I never get to L-1?

[DeasVail]

Luca, who do you think is more likely scum between me and UC?

[DeasVail]

Hmmmm, Transcend, I've noticed that you're not voting for me. Is there a reason for that? Last I saw, you thought I might be scum so why not support the wagon?

[DeasVail]

I haven't played with havingfitz in a (very) long time, but these are the ones I do remember playing with him.

Fitz-town:

viewtopic.php?t=23295&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=21789&f=52&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Fitz-scum:
viewtopic.php?t=21344&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

I haven't re-read through his ISOs from these games in depth, but my impression of him is that as scum he puts more effort into laying out his thought processes so that people can't call him out on a lack of reasoning for what he's doing etc. Obviously any meta from these games would be outdated, but even disregarding that, I'd expect him to not shoot down Luca's case on me so readily. He may still disagree with it as scum, but I think he would at least pretend to show more consideration for it. My read is difficult to explain as it's very much coloured by my perception of havingfitz as a player (even if it's been a while), but I am also not going to lock him in as a certain townread or anything like that. I will update this read as necessary.

[DeasVail]

tbh, I am starting to see where Transcend is coming from with his belief that the Lil/Viomi/Rem/ProHawk slot is scum

What is your read of Transcend?

[DeasVail]

OK, cool. I think this is a town move, and endorse Ectomancer as unemotional, analytical hammerer-in-chief.

I’m not as passionate about scum-Ecto as I was yesterday, but why do you think they are town?

[DeasVail]

I don't know what to fucking do with Kelbris. He's kind of adorable, so I don't want him to be scum, but he could totally be scum, but if he flipped town, that's like zero information, except maybe for the wagon analysis.

Why are you using the information gained from a lynch as a factor. Shouldn’t the priority be lynching scum, regardless of the information obtained?

[DeasVail]

I don't think it's necessarily scummy from boring, but I'm interested in the response to my question.

Oddly enough, I actually get the impression that your post is a scummy misconstrual of

my

intent, considering that I'm pressuring boring, but didn't assign any value judgements to her post. However, you take it beyond that and create this story about how I'm misconstruing her intent.

[DeasVail]

Busy day today, but I should be good for tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

@Luca: Regarding the sheep vote, that was still a reasonable amount of time before the deadline, at a time when I didn’t feel incredibly passionate about any of the existing wagons. I was concerned about sheep because he seemed to be sliding along without any attention despite repeated unfulfilled promises to catch up on the game. I would have expected him to either get involved in the game or realise he wouldn’t be able to and replace out. However, if he was scum able to coast by without much attention, he would have seen no need to replace out. My initial townread was also based on me not reading things properly, so I wouldn’t say it was a massive read change. I don’t find the timing of sheep’s eventual replace out to be too indicative either way.

Re: Ecto
I don’t remember what post I meant instead of 197.
172 was ultimately a fairly weak point which has since been superseded by things I find more likely to be relevant.

Re: Boring
The concern about her targeting of you was always present and wasn’t a reason for scumreading her as much as it was just something I was worried about. I’ve always been unsure whether to think of it as coming from town or scum, but it feels significant and not worth ignoring.


—-

Just generally regarding UCV, I’m leaning town. I’m trying to avoid bias based on his read of me, which I felt was pretty bad, but there was a pretty clear lack of trying to look good when he was questioned about it.

I’m also going heavily back and forth on my Ecto Read whenever I read his posts. There are things that my mind says are scummy, but then he posts these wonderfully weird posts and I’m like... how does scum post that? But then how does town post that? Aren’t the two equally unlikely therefore I should just go back to what my brain says?

I need to sit down and properly work through this but I’m incredibly worried that people like ucv ProHawk and Kelbris are scum’s designated mislynches and that scum are in fact hiding among the more widely townread players. This is possibly drifting too far into paranoia, but I definitely plan on looking more closely at the players receiving less attention.

[DeasVail]

Top tier: Transcend, Mutant
Almost solid: Pro-hawk, Fishy, Luca

[DeasVail]

Actually go with Transcend as almost solid too.

[DeasVail]

Right now my thoughts are something like:

Mutant
Transcend, Fishy, Luca, Pro-Hawk
-
Fitz
UCV
boring
Kelbris, Ecto

[DeasVail]

I want to look more closely at Fishy and Luca in particular, but that’s more me being worried that I’m lazily townreading then than anything else.

[DeasVail]

Re:ProHawk, it was my controversial town read from Viomi replacing out. How could you forget?

[DeasVail]

Re:ProHawk, it was my controversial town read from Viomi replacing out. How could you forget?

That replace out was not alignment indicative and get your head out of your ass before i put it in a noose.

We should probably just agree to disagree on that one.

[DeasVail]

Regarding Pro, I thought his posts seemed okay, but I’ll take a fresh look tonight or tomorrow.

PEdit: Ehhh, it’s not a point I really want to argue right now.

PEdit at boring: It was not the rage quit but the continued posting after her request to replace out that I thought was town for reasons I’ve explained. I think scum would have been more likely to just leave with less attachment to the game and the issue. I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion.

[DeasVail]

Nothing too much stands out to me from Pro so far.

[DeasVail]

Luca, have you noticed the avoidance of conflict to be something UCV does as scum?

And in response to your post, no. His response to Fishy in 1005 is more what I mean. I think his case on me was bad, but differentiating whether that comes from town or scum is a whole different thing. My guess is town because The badness was glaringly obvious in a way that I think scum would be more careful to avoid. Whereas town have a greater tendency to post without carefully thinking. And he hasn’t put as much effort as I would perhaps expect into correcting that mistake if he were scum.

[DeasVail]

I’m not a fan of the term “too scummy to be scum”. I think the key is in adjusting your definition of “scummy”. Bad does not by any means equal scummy, for example. Given what you’ve said, I’ll have to read UCV’s past games though, as what you’re saying doesn’t align very well with what I classically consider to be scum vs town.

[DeasVail]

Every time I read a UCV post it's like my scum-senses tingle on red alert and are all SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM, but when I actually think about his posts, I don't know Luca, I actually think he's more likely to flip town here.

[DeasVail]

I'm also really not gaining back my passion in Ectomancer being scum. I plan on revisiting it later, but I'm not feeling it right now and definitely not enough to sway people over to a lynch I don't believe in all that much.

I will

VOTE: boring

though.

She's still more scummy than UCV to me.

[DeasVail]

Well Deas since this day seems to be heading towards a lynch of either you or UCV I think I know who I’d be wanting to lynch in your situation.

Let’s save revisiting boring until day 3.

I’m sorry but I’d really prefer not to have another mislynch today and restricting the lynch options to myself and someone I think is town doesn’t really help that. If this boring wagon doesn’t take off then sure, I’ll vote for UCV. I have much stronger townreads and I still think he could be scum. But until then, I’d rather not.

Why are you protecting UCV?

And Deas, please tell me how Boring is more scummy than UCV.

I agree with Mutant when he says this lynch is Deas v UCV.

I think boring is more likely to be scum. I think Elmo’s play makes a lot more sense from scum than UCV’s does and while boring’s play is “better”, I think things such as the way she meta-justified her shift to the UCV wagon is likely to come from scum trying too hard to come up with their own material to look like they have original reasoning and not just a bandwagoner. I say this because the reasoning itself seemed very reachy when Luca had made much better points. The fishy vote is also interestingly timed given the rising support for a wagon on her again, which supports my theory that boring-scum uses going after “big targets” to look town. While UCV’s play is objectively bad and reading his posts makes me squirm a bit, I think the all-over-the-place ness is more likely from town and makes for an incredibly juicy mislynch.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Transcend

I feel like all game I've been making excuses for why transcend is town, but I don't think I can back that up anymore.

lolhammering alone is not a scumtell imo, but I think Transcend's hammer on UCV makes so much more sense from scum.

Let's imagine that Transcend is town:
- Transcend thinks that UCV might be scum but is more likely to be town (which is much like the opinion that I had at the time)
- UCV has not claimed, so Transcend-town here must be thinking it possible that UCV is a PR if he thinks that UCV is town. I say this because I was thinking much along those lines at the time.
- Transcend-town suddenly hammers because ???

Let's imagine that Transcend is scum:
- Transcend knows that UCV is scum but doesn't really want to bus or wants to be off the wagon for whatever reason.
- A UCV lynch is looking to appear inevitable to Transcend-scum, who knows that he himself is probably not long for the game.
- Transcend-scum suddenly hammers, perhaps in an effort to get brownie points because who would lolhammer their scumbuddy without giving them a chance to claim, right?

So, given the above, Transcend-scum at least has some sort of reason to lolhammer, while there is no reason at all for Transcend-town to.

[DeasVail]

wait wait wait, I just realised...perhaps Transcend is the cop, how else would he know that the cop has "inno" on him. Unvoting for now just in case the scum try for a quickhammer on him.

UNVOTE:

Why do you think scum would quickhammer?

[DeasVail]

@boring by the last part of your statement do you mean you think we should explore the idea of lynching someone who is widely considered town (eg. myself) tomorrow?

If so then I see where you’re coming from. It does become suspicious when a strong townie lives for too long. I figured that either myself or Luca would be shot last night and I honestly don’t expect to live to see tomorrow. That’s why I’d like to make it clear that if Transcend flips scum I’d be going after kelbris but if he flips town then I’d be going for boring.

That's a good idea, to be clear of our "tomorrow intents". But I didn't mean tomorrow's lynch should be a widely town-read player. I'm a little confused where you got that from.

I meant scum would have shot someone like you last night, if Transcend was town, as Luca looked to be going after Transcend today. Luca wasn't threatening anyone else. It makes the most sense that scum!Transcend would kill him, counting on the too-scummy-to-be-scum defence to carry him through it.

This was a thought I had as well.

Back when I played more, it was so often that I would see a town player killed after they had locked into scum. But then at least half the time I would see the scum survive because “scum wouldn’t be that obvious”.

[DeasVail]

Okay, let's do this. NO ONE IS SAFE

Fishy, after voting for Transcend, you ask him a few questions in 1315, 1323 and 1332. Do you think he could have answered in these questions in such a way that would have changed your read on him, or not really?

Mutant, you've mentioned a few times that you believe you'll be killed at night. What is your motivation for saying this?

Kelbris, why did you feel the need to justify your vote in the following way:

P.S. he already claimed VT so I am not "quickhammering before he has a chance to claim" for those who have not read the day yet.

But right now I reckon boring is the best bet for scum:

There's no way Transcend's town. And all this cop-talk just looks like him trying to tease out another naive PR.

That lolhammer was beyond anti-town. Added with all the other toxic, ridiculous play this game, he really must be just a cheap-shot scum player.

Luca successfully rallied the town to vote UCV, and he was clearly going after Transcend next, with no one else clearly in his crosshairs. If Transcend was town, there's no reason to kill Luca. Better mutant, or someone else widely townread. Luca would have guaranteed a Trasncend lynch today.

VOTE: Transcend

I think this is vote #4, so

L-1

Seriously, Kelbris? Everyone hasn't even checked in yet.

Scum!Transcend -- I'm looking at Kelbris and Ecto tomorrow
Town!Transcend -- Kelbris, and then everyone else.

If you're convinced that Transcend is scum here, as your previous post suggested, why this reaction to a hammer?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: boring

[DeasVail]

Not liking boring for scum...

Reason?

Also mutant, what are your thoughts on Fitz outside the night Kill analysis?

[DeasVail]

I’m sure I’ve said this before but whatever. I originally considered him scum on D1 but since then I had been leaning town on him.

What are your thoughts on my night kill analysis? You seem to have conveniently ignored it.

I disagree with putting so much stock in night Kill analysis compared with reading in-game play considering the assumptions made, but that comes down to a play style difference I think.

[DeasVail]

Fitz and Deas were more targeted than the other players by Ectomancer yesterday. Luca, obviously, was a threat to both as well.

Also, Deas was the only player to support my rationale on Trasncend directly, and now he's voting me right out the gate. Isn't that a little weird?

I thought Transcend was scum, which would have made you most likely town. So how is it weird?

[DeasVail]

Spoiler:

But right now I reckon boring is the best bet for scum:

There's no way Transcend's town. And all this cop-talk just looks like him trying to tease out another naive PR.

That lolhammer was beyond anti-town. Added with all the other toxic, ridiculous play this game, he really must be just a cheap-shot scum player.

Luca successfully rallied the town to vote UCV, and he was clearly going after Transcend next, with no one else clearly in his crosshairs. If Transcend was town, there's no reason to kill Luca. Better mutant, or someone else widely townread. Luca would have guaranteed a Trasncend lynch today.

VOTE: Transcend

I think this is vote #4, so

L-1

Seriously, Kelbris? Everyone hasn't even checked in yet.

Scum!Transcend -- I'm looking at Kelbris and Ecto tomorrow
Town!Transcend -- Kelbris, and then everyone else.

If you're convinced that Transcend is scum here, as your previous post suggested, why this reaction to a hammer?

Dude, really? You should know better. Kelbris hammered when we were less than 24 hours into the day. That's not good.

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't have a list of who was assigned which alignments. I can very strongly suspect someone is scum, but I'm not delusional enough to think there's no chance I'm wrong. What if someone really did have an innocent on him? What if someone had other information about the night events? Maybe a tracker saw someone move for the NK? We didn't fucking know. Kelbris marches to the beat of his own drum, and I get that, but that rapid hammer was incredibly suspect.

Um, you literally said “there’s no way Transcend is town”. Did you mean that or did you not mean that?

I agree with you that the hammer was not a good move, but I think that reaction comes from someone who knows Transcemd is town, not someone who believes Transcend is scum.

[DeasVail]

Yeah sure I’m a VT

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: boring

[DeasVail]

I’ll be a bit busy over the next two days, but will check in when I can

[DeasVail]

I don’t have the time to devote the thought that I want to devote to this right now. Hopefully I’ll get some time after work tonight if I’m not too tired.

[DeasVail]

Okay, I’ve thought things through and I’m less sure than I was before, but my first choice is still boring. Second choice Kelbris.

[DeasVail]

I've had a look through Elmo's posts again and I've tried my best to approach them with a fresh mindset. I can't promise that there's no element of confirmation bias there, but I can't help but be reminded of why I thought that slot was scum.

And it all starts from 115, the vote on mutant for his early, long reads list. Mutant was initially suspected for posting such an early, lengthy reads list but then this suspicion was starting to die down. At least to me, mutant was beginning to look very town, and it's as the suspicion is dying down that Elmo places a vote on mutant. It very much looks like an attempt to keep the suspicion of mutant alive as it's starting to grow stale, and what is most suspicious here is the locking in on one aspect of mutant's play without taking into consideration the progression since then.

Elmo then implies that she doesn't think mutant's post was scummy in 127, which then begs the question, what was the point of the vote? There's no evidence that Elmo was looking to pressure mutant or gain a reaction out of him. It appears much more like, at best an attempt to make a vote for an acceptable reason in order to fit in, and at worst an attempt to keep the suspicion of mutant alive without strongly investing in the wagon herself.

159: Elmo now calls mutant out on a supposedly opportunistic vote, and says that she's comfortable with her vote on mutant. At what point did mutant become scummy? Does Elmo even consider mutant to be scummy at this stage?


In later posts she acknowledges her inconsistency, which is fine. Town can be inconsistent just as much as scum can be, but what I find scummy across her posts is the general whining about people voting for her and accusing people of being "opportunistic" when she's entirely aware that she's given people reason to vote for her. I think that the accusing people of being opportunistic is scum attempting to look town by taking the approach of playing the victim and "booo the scum are taking advantage of me as an easy wagon!!!", which is something that town will often do, but I don't think this is as likely here given that Elmo has already acknowledged the fact that she's been inconsistent.

And that pretty much sums up my thoughts on Elmo.

Boring's play has been objectively far better, but from reviewing her posts I still think she is scum. This is obviously coloured by Elmo's play, but I think that's always going to form a part of my read, and I believe boring is just a better scum player than Elmo is.

These are the things that stand out to me from boring's posts:

- Her votes on 'big targets' such as Luca and Fishy at various points in the game come across as insincere to me. I've re-read the Luca suspicion and it feels manufactured to me. This is not one I can explain properly other than it's just the feeling I get with the initial suspicion for weak reasoning and the slow easing off until Luca's a townread, with no real change from Luca in terms of his play. I feel that the fishy vote is perhaps more transparent in that she makes the vote without any evidence of intent to make it a wagon or a lynch. It comes across to me as an attempt to look good by having non-easy, meatier targets. Especially given her belief that scum will generally go for easier targets. I think she's putting effort into avoiding what she believes scum are more likely to do.

- Her reaction to the kelbris hammer after a previous post saying that "there is no way Transcend is town". It just doesn't make sense to have that kind of reaction to someone if you genuinely think something similar to the severity of "there is no way Transcend is town". I agree that the kelbris hammer was an anti-town move regardless of Transcend's alignment. But comparing boring's reaction to mine, which was along the lines of "oh well that's a bit early but at least we'll get a probably scum Transcend flip!", it feels at least a bit off.

I think scum-boring here would have been trying to look like she genuinely believed Transcend was scum, using strong language like "there is no way Transcend is town", which she didn't really mean. In terms of her reaction to the kelbris hammer, I'm not sure of the scum-motivation behind it (and it would vary depending on kelbris' alignment), but I do think it betrays a lack of authenticity in the previously stated belief that Transcend was scum.

Lastly, I find subtle jabs such as in 1397 to be quite scummy. It should be fairly obvious that my position is going to change after the townflip of someone I thought was scum. But instead she's throwing subtle shade at the fact that it was "weird" for me to vote for her after agreeing with one of her posts about Transcend the previous day. I disagree that there is much argument for it being weird, and I also don't like the way in which the post was made, further encouraging a negative opinion of me but without taking a strong stance on the point.

I've thought about the VT claim, and I don't think it's alignment-indicative either way. I don't believe she would have fake-claimed a PR as scum, knowing that Fitz was a PR (who everyone seemed to believe) and not knowing who had hid their PR.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about boring. I don't know if I'll survive the day, but my thoughts are clear there at least.

VOTE: boring

[DeasVail]

Why boring over Kelbris?

I think kelbris could be scum, but boring is more likely in my opinion.

[DeasVail]

Bleh...I'm here.

@kelbris and Deasvail - if either mutant or I are the tracker boring went nowhere N2. So his chance of being scum is cut by half-ish.

There are too many possibilities left open for this to have much impact for me.

1. Are either of you even the tracker? (Obv don’t answer this)
2. For N2 there was always going to be one scum making the kill and one scum not making it. Arguing against a lynch of someone because they are cleared from being the one that made the kill on a particular night gives rise to the dangerous possibility of giving scum a free pass.

[DeasVail]

@DV: who is scum other than boring?

I don't know. I initially had Kelbris in mind, but recent events have caused me to question that. Personally I don't find it too helpful to do too much team speculation before flips are established, as I have found that it leads me astray more often than not. Given that the play from boring's slot is what I believe is most likely to come from scum, my ideal plan would be to lynch her and then work from there. I've made my case, and given that I do really think she is scum, I am not going to be giving up on this easily, but I am aware that I'm not getting much traction here. The tracker point is a fair one, and my disagreement with it is both a result of a different approach to game theory, as well as just a stronger belief on my end that boring is scum. My argument would honestly be to ignore the tracker results (given the high false negative rate) and just look at her posts and make a judgement from that.

[DeasVail]

1. Why ask?
2. His chances of being scum are less than people not potentially tracked.
Who's your second most suspect?
Boring can be sorted tomorrow after PRs are known.

It was a rhetorical question.

And 2. I think I already answered to some degree, but I will elaborate. If we're going purely by PR mechanics, then yes, boring would not be the person to lynch, but that's not what the game is about. I think that boring is scum, I think her posting comes from scum, I think the way she has played the game is more likely from scum than from town to a degree that outweighs the decreased likelihood established by a negative track result. I am very hesitant to take an approach of "just sort her out tomorrow" because my prediction is that a negative tracker result would still have the same overly strong sway tomorrow as it seems to be having today. If I absolutely need to, then I will work out who else I would be willing to lynch, but I'm not going to give up on this easily.

[DeasVail]

Lemme check interactions and get back to you

What will you be looking for?

[DeasVail]

uh what?

Anyway, I think that's the hammer. Good luck guys, my guess would be boring and then kelbris, given the weird 180 from liking my points on boring to then using a post of boring's as an excuse to change his read of me. I'm sorry that I didn't get into this game as much as I should have.

[DeasVail]

Eh, I actually thought that was the hammer. In terms of boring’s post, I don’t have much to say. She posted links to games arguing that this is more like a previous scum game than previous town games. I am town here so there are probably non-alignment related reasons why that is the case. And I’m okay with voting Kelbris.VOTE: kelbris

[DeasVail]

uh what?

Anyway, I think that's the hammer. Good luck guys, my guess would be boring and then kelbris, given the weird 180 from liking my points on boring to then using a post of boring's as an excuse to change his read of me. I'm sorry that I didn't get into this game as much as I should have.

I don't like this post. It feels forced and as though it is trying to give the impression "hey look at me, I must be town if I didn't confess to being scum after I thought I had been lynched." I'm fairly certain most people's first impressions to reading this was "he hasn't been hammered though..." I certainly knew you hadn't been lynched yet and I feel like everyone else would as well. After all, the difference between 3 or 4 votes isn't exactly hard to keep track of. My point is, this post doesn't feel as though you even believed you had just been hammered. This gives the impression you are scum looking for town cred. I can't help but think that if you were a townie who believed they had just been misslynched you'd have a bit more to say than this.

For some reason I thought one of you/Fitz was voting for me. I don’t know why.

[DeasVail]

Eh, I actually thought that was the hammer. In terms of boring’s post, I don’t have much to say. She posted links to games arguing that this is more like a previous scum game than previous town games. I am town here so there are probably non-alignment related reasons why that is the case. And I’m okay with voting Kelbris.VOTE: kelbris

Like it doesn't bother you that the association is incorrect here?

I've made the same mistake before, where I've been convinced that a player's alignment matches their scum meta, when actually they're town and different for some unrelated reason. And for this reason, while meta will sometimes influence my reads, I tend not to go digging for it, as I will be going in with a certain mindset and see what I want to see, if that makes sense. I think it also doesn't help here given that 2/3 of the games linked (including the scum game) are from 2015, and I've changed a lot as a person since that time.

Due to the above, I don't think that the linking of previous games from boring is scummy by itself. But I think boring is scum for other reasons.

[DeasVail]

Probably because they're scum together, at least that's what I've been thinking since the kelbris vote on me.

[DeasVail]

They're both obv. scum. I'd rather do Deas first, for a few reasons. But if the confirmed towns want to do Kelbris first, it's no big deal.

Reasons:
1. He's the obv. scum with more experience at this game, going by join date. That means he's more likely to competently make it through to endgame.

2. That meta difference is pretty convincing. It's not like I cherry picked that shit. These were literally the first two completed town games I found, and the first scum game I found. I was just looking to see if he used a lot of lie-tells in his language as town too, and I only stumbled across the stark difference in play styles by accident. It's as close to evidence as I've ever seen a meta dive produce.

3. I think we're all aware that we've had some really, really bad townies in this game. Kelbris is slightly more likely to be bad town than Deas. If they're both that awful, then we never stood a chance in the first place.

How am I such a bad townie? Sure, this game has been pretty bad by my standards in terms of reads and engagement, at least earlier in the game, but you’re comment that I’m awful if I’m town doesn’t seem justified, and I think it reveals that you’re scum here, considering that if you were town I don’t think you’d feel good enough about your own town game here to call other people awful town. If you’re town then misreading me is on you, it’s not my fault. Just as it’s my fault if I’m wrong about you here, but I really don’t think I am.

[DeasVail]

I also don’t believe your apparent confidence in the reads at all, especially after you claimed to be just as confident in Transcend, were wrong, and then later said something along the lines of never being 100% confident in your reads. The only reason for such hyperbole here would be if you were scum here trying really hard to convince everyone else that you actually believe what you’re saying.

[DeasVail]

Your opportunistic vote hops, your tendency mimic to other people's opinions, your limp attempts at pity-based AtE

I don't see how any of these are actual things.

[DeasVail]

Also boring I realise things have gotten a bit heated/sassy/snarky between us, but I just wanted to say that I've enjoyed playing with you regardless of how things end up here.

[DeasVail]

I don’t have as much time for Mafia as I used to, just in general, but right now the main issue is that I’m struggling with motivation. I’ve presented my reasons for boring being scum, I also think that Kelbris is scum, but there’s really nothing more to say about it.

I could shout

BORING IS SCUM
KELBRIS IS SCUM
BORING IS SCUM
KELBRIS IS SCUM

But that would just be obnoxious.

Honestly I was sort of relieved when I thought I was lynched because then I’d be able to put this behind me. Because it’s just been a bad game all around. But I’m town and so I’m still going to support a Kelbris or boring lynch until I die.

[DeasVail]

At this point my read on the game is quite influenced by the fact that I think Kelbris and boring are scum. Between fishy and pro-hawk, I’d say pro-hawk is more likely town. I was townreading fishy earlier in the game but his posting since has been underwhelming. Pro-hawk still seems quite active in trying to work out the game and if he were scum I’d expect him to be much more okay with just lynching me.

[DeasVail]

Not much new from me. A quick summary of where I am:
- boring and PH look mildly town. boring looked good to me on Day 2, and PH seems to be trying hard to do things well now.
- kelbris hasn't done very much, and his reads today are primarily intended for survival. That's probably scum.
- DV has posted quite a lot while mostly avoiding doing anything interesting, and looks like under-the-radar scum. I think UC's play on DV was bussing.

I'm a bit sad that my pretty good Day 1 play in this game has been diluted by being inactive Day 2.

How would it make sense for me to be under the radar scum when I’m at L-1?

[DeasVail]

Guys can we actually just lynch Kelbris?

[DeasVail]

So we have 2 days left, that's less than I thought. Could y'all speed up with your replies?

Fishy is a town read for me but if either Kelbris or boring happened to be town, he would be where I’d be looking.

[DeasVail]

Guys seriously just lynch me or don’t lynch me.

But lynching Kelbris would be ideal so I’ll ask again if we can do that.

[DeasVail]

Last minute boring flashwagon GOGOGO

[DeasVail]

VOTE: boring