Open 695: Making Friends and Enemies [Mafia Win!]


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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:43 pm

Post by Torque »

In post 849, Jamiet99uk wrote:@Mod: Has Chisa been prodded lately or are they meeting the participation requirements?
Chisa has been meeting the requirement past the first time I prodded her. Plus she IS in V/LA, so.
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by Jamiet99uk »

Can you just put yourself in V/LA and then not have to participate?

How does that work?

Is that what Awoo has been banking on?
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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by northsidegal »

chisa's last post was 20 hours ago. if you're that annoyed by the lack of activity then flavor leaf's last post was over two days ago.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:14 pm

Post by Jamiet99uk »

I'm annoyed by so many things right now.
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by Lalendra »

Well this is going well
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:35 pm

Post by Aubrey »

@Jamiet:

Think you need to just chill personally, and let go of your reservations about this site.

Spoiler: Better explaination of V/LA
V/LA is used to represent an absence for X amount of days. If you have RL shit happening, V/LA is the
proper
way to address the situation, while informing the mod of what is happening. All that being said, people should be held accountable to make up for whatever they miss, and not be allowed to lurk out the game. So no, just going V/la should not exempt you from being absent from the game entirely. To post during V/LA is a personal choice, and should someone feel that V/LA is being abused then you can lynch that slot. V/la doesn't mean the slot can be suspected or voted


Spoiler: Regarding your Comm debate about mechanics
Forcing a fake hammer in order to grasp at reactions is an entirely fine move to make and within the rules. You're not breaking any rules by doing this because you're trying to gleam information in the pursuit of your win con within the game. Your saying that it isn't within the rules is like saying what you did is breaking rules by putting on a farce
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Aubrey »

VOTE: Lalendra
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by northsidegal »

it looks like we've got a few people on at the same time here, so now's a good time for discussion.
In post 854, Lalendra wrote:Well this is going well
really? nothing to add or comment on?
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Jamiet99uk »

@Aubrey: Re: Spoiler #2 - I never said it was against the rules *here* in this weird plane of existence. I said it was manipulating the game mechanics in an unsporting manner, which I absolutely stand by.
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:39 pm

Post by Jamiet99uk »

"You're not breaking any rules by doing this because you're trying to gleam information in the pursuit of your win con within the game."

Hacking someone's password to read their role PM would be "not breaking the rules" if this is the only definition, btw.
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

I’d rather quick than Chisa.

Sorry, guys. I think I forgot to officially VLA. I’ll be back tomorrow.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:47 pm

Post by Aubrey »

@Jamiet

You're taking an extreme move and comparing it to a light one, plus we can all attest that hacking is completely against the rules and grounds for permanent banning. Not to mention I said "
within the game/thread
" Hacking is gaining personal info on someone outside of the thread and general rules we have established here. The only grey areas in this "
thread
" rule is meta and referencing old games in comparison to your current game.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:50 pm

Post by Aubrey »

Sooo Project Runway comes on in 10 minutes. Super stoked, will be in and out. BYE! :D
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:55 pm

Post by northsidegal »

so i felt like commenting on the morality of fake hammering but i didn't want an unrelated discussion to be the only part of my post, so here are some more relevant posts to look at when considering the context of jamie's claimed gambit.
In post 102, Jamiet99uk wrote:I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.
In post 252, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 240, Epic Fial wrote:
In post 102, Jamiet99uk wrote:I'm thinking about our Masons. Important we keep them alive if we can. They effectively have a 1-shot copscan.
What steps shall we take to keep the masons alive?

Let's try not to lynch them.
In post 414, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 413, Quick wrote:
In post 410, Jamiet99uk wrote:Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.
So... was that thing where you told people not to lynch the masons the same type of thing?

Erm, no. It was something else. I don't wish to discuss that at the moment.
In post 426, Jamiet99uk wrote:VOTE: Lalendra for fishing.
In post 493, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 468, Awoo wrote:Jamie is becoming a policy lynch.
A policy lynch that I support.
VOTE: jamiet99uk
Because otherwise it's too obvious who's getting mason'd, and that's bad. At least when we remove this from the game there is a good layer of ambiguity who the copshot lands on.

Is it bad if I think this slot isn't reaaaaaaly going to flip scum? I don't think this lynch is terrible for town as we also get some info on who's on wagons and stuff, who pushed him throughout the day, etc. But I don't reaaaly think it's going to flip scum.

A lot of my scumreads are on this wagon and I feel bad in that regard but read above.

:!: :!:
I THINK THIS IS L-1
:!: :!:
You are misreading my intentions. I'm not attempting to get Masoned. If I am not a Mason the Masons should definitely not attempt to Mason me. I would strongly discourage any such action!
In post 580, Jamiet99uk wrote:Actually Quick has been intelligent enough to notice something that many of you have failed to grasp.
(this one relates to his recent comment that he felt quick picked up on his mason gambit)

Spoiler: morality of fakehammering
fake hammering is the exact same thing you do in any game of mafia - lie to someone. it follows the exact same principle. there's no abuse of game mechanics in the same way that a scum player saying that they're town isn't an unfair abuse of the fact that town is uninformed - it's a part of the game. would you make the argument that scum fakeclaiming is an abuse of setup mechanics? would you make the argument that a townie faking a guilty is an abuse of setup mechanics (don't do this by the way)? let's say that i make a huge, convoluted post and convince everyone that i have found a gamebreaking strategy for town, and they all believe me and do what i say. is this an abuse of game mechanics, or unsportsmanlike? if so, why? i would argue it isn't - influencing people's perceptions is the entire game of mafia, so just because an action relates more to the mechanical side (fake hammering, saying you have a gamebreaking strategy) doesn't mean that it's outside of what's "meant" to happen in the game.

another mafiascum player recently introduced me to this book (readable online), and i've found it very interesting as well as relatable to this situation. it's mainly about computer games or video games, but i think it's applicable here as well. (by the way, i hope there are no rules against off-site links.)
How Far Should You Go to Win?
Introducing the Scub (no offense meant at all by this)
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:27 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 819, Awoo wrote:VOTE: jamie um rude language sir

Will switch back to quick as i see fit
For the confident case you had on quick this makes no sense
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by CommKnight »

Flubber, you're doing super bad right now. You're acting like people can't change reads as new information presents itself and I am not sure if you have scum motivation in pushing that narrative or if you really are just that much of a VI.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by northsidegal »

@flubber and @comm, both of you either justify where your vote is right now or move it in your very next post.
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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Post by CommKnight »

In post 866, northsidegal wrote:@flubber and @comm, both of you either justify where your vote is right now or move it in your very next post.
Sure.

CommKnight (3): Epic Fial, Quick, Maki Harukawa
Quick (1): Flubbernugget,
lucca261 (1): Flavor Leaf
Jamiet99uk (4): CommKnight, lucca261, Awoo, Lalendra

Lalendra (3): northsidegal, Jamiet99uk, Aubrey

Not voting: Chisa Yukizome

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2017-11-03 10:00:00)

^ Current status of votes.

3 biggest wagons: Myself, Jamiet and Lale. No one else is even viable. You're asking me to move my vote off the CURRENT BIGGEST WAGON and onto someone I have a more townier read from.

Not gonna happen. I'm voting one of the current potential lynches. So what if you TR Jamie. I sure as hell do not. My vote stays. Jamie or bust.
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:03 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 867, CommKnight wrote:You're asking me to move my vote off the CURRENT BIGGEST WAGON and onto someone I have a more townier read from.

Not gonna happen. I'm voting one of the current potential lynches. So what if you TR Jamie. I sure as hell do not. My vote stays. Jamie or bust.
no, i'm fine with this response. what i wanted to gather from that was either a current read or a changed vote - the main point was to avoid anyone just coasting through the end of this day. the next step is your justification beyond wagon numbers - if you scumread jamie, what's your response to the mason gambit? if you townread lalendra, what's your justification on that and what's your response to and ? you had lalendra as one of the scummiest in and as null in , and apparently townread her now to the point where it's not a viable lynch. what changed?
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by Aubrey »

Joyous day Awoo, my avatar has changed! Pretty much represents how I currently feel.
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:43 pm

Post by Quick »

Why am I not dead? I am shocked actually.

Now that I think about it, I could prolly try and flesh out my progression on North better.

Its was kinda a quick thought process. It just kinda clicked that North was playing far more Pro-Town than I was giving them credit for. That's the long and short of it.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:51 pm

Post by northsidegal »

we're really going to need people to get on soon if today isn't going to end in a no-lynch.
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 813, lucca261 wrote:I would love a Jamie lynch today. In fact, I won't be here in the deadline, so this is probably my last post today:

VOTE: Jamie. vote it, quick, there are no reason whatsoever you can think it's a town slot. no reason.

look at this reaction to the fake hammer. look at how he wants to be excused for the hammer he was about to do. he knew quick was flipping town. his is just making that not so obvious.
Pretty much this exactly:
In post 847, northsidegal wrote:
In post 844, Jamiet99uk wrote:Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.
seconding this point - i read what you said you were trying to do and had an instant moment of "oh, that makes sense". if there are people who believe jamie's behavior earlier this game is due to incompetence or to scum awkwardness, to reconcile that view and this claimed strategy you would have to believe that in the time period between then and now jamie gained enough knowledge of the game or experience to both realize how awkard what he was saying sounded and to come up with a believable explanation for it. i think the far simpler and more likely answer is that it was a planned strategy, as claimed. it just makes a lot of sense looking back that it was a deliberate attempt to put forward a newbie image. of course, it's not as if this strategy
couldn't
have come from scum, but again - i'd say the far more likely answer is that it shows a town thought process / motivation.

relevant quotes:
In post 421, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 417, Lalendra wrote:
In post 410, Jamiet99uk wrote:Excellent.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.
1) Not sure if I believe this was all a ploy, or if this is backpedaling and "I MEANT TO DO THAT."
2) Remember how we were trying not to out the masons? Saying you're VT is narrowing the pool. We already talked about this. Stahp.
3) "I'm definitely town, fellow townsfolk" is the most LAMIST post I've ever seen.

I'm not trying to out the Masons or narrow the pool. Maybe you are.
In post 425, Jamiet99uk wrote:@Lalendra: You're mistaken about what I'm trying to do. I'm not scum.
In post 431, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 428, Lalendra wrote:It's easy to say you're not scum, but you didn't refute my points.
If I did that, I would have to explain myself. That would be counter-productive at this time. Don't vote for me tho. Thanks.
In post 438, Jamiet99uk wrote:Who is claiming VT? Me? Nonono.

(Aubrey I am using a computer)
In post 447, Jamiet99uk wrote:
In post 446, Lalendra wrote:Yes, my continuing to push you on things you've said and refuse to defend, and calling you out on your unwillingness to explain yourself, is obviously just unfounded tunneling.
Perhaps your intention is well-founded
and you just have no idea what I might be doing
, but it's still tunnelling and it's not very helpful at this point. It's just becoming repetitious.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:05 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 871, northsidegal wrote:we're really going to need people to get on soon if today isn't going to end in a no-lynch.
I'll hammer any of the three wagons just to get a lynch, but ofc I prefer Comm.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:49 pm

Post by Jamiet99uk »

VOTE: CommKnight
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