Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[Luca Blight]

I thought you were making a wall post for a minute there Sheep - I nearly spat my coffee out!

[Ectomancer]

I doubt this matters but just saying I’m no longer prepared to lynch Yuria. Since my initial reads they’ve contributed a lot more and all of their contributions seem town to me.

Just my opinion, but I don't really like posts like this - Just think if Yuria is scum, what confidence and relief your post will give to her! I know when I'm scum and people say 'not lynching Luca today' I can then relax and play with confidence, rather than having to tread on eggshells.

Always better to keep everyone on their toes rather than write them off for the lynch so early in the day.

Funny. You don't seem to be on eggshells.

Probably because I'm Town.

Good explanation.

Could you straighten out sheep for me then? Because even though he messed up the spoiler tags he seems to be implying that my posts are devoid of any content of their own and instead are mere (mere, like taking stances on others words are practically useless), as I was saying, mere fluff directed at quotes from others. I'm older now. Calmer. I don't just go off on people for being stupid anymore. No. I make polite requests of others to do it for me.

[Luca Blight]

To be fair you did give your own opinions in that post as well.

Only thing I would say is to answer why you say Mutant is Town based on 141?

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

I’m also currently willing to vote for havingfitz if the wagon was to switch to him. Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

mutantdevle is town.

what's town about that post?

oi i asked dat first <o/

[Luca Blight]

I know - 'answer why' meaning answer Sheep's query.

[Ectomancer]

To be fair you did give your own opinions in that post as well.

Only thing I would say is to answer why you say Mutant is Town based on 141?

Oh, it wasn't actually his 141 post. It was his dorky list. His 141 was just a convenient spot to say, "Oh yeah, mutant = town" since he was doing the sensible thing and wagoning Elmo.

[Luca Blight]

Are you still maintaining that IceGuy is scum? To be honest I thought the early wagon was just for pressure purposes and to get the game out of RVS.

His posts since RVS haven't really pinged me at all.

[Luca Blight]

Note - I just finished a game with IceGuy where he was heavily suspected and vig-killed as Town, so maybe I'm just used to his awkward style.

[Ectomancer]

Are you still maintaining that IceGuy is scum? To be honest I thought the early wagon was just for pressure purposes and to get the game out of RVS.

His posts since RVS haven't really pinged me at all.

My wall of quotes detailed two instances after I made my accusation against him where he could have directly answered to my reasoning. I felt as though I had given the first vote out of the RVS stage. By definition, that means an actual reason. Specifically, it was the "I'm a helpful townie" tell because it felt forced to me given Transcend's experience and it was a "duh" type of post. If you are town I expect you to tell me why, right? It is a reasonable expectation. But what did he do?

#1 - Question me about whether I am serious after 2 posts in RVS.
#2 - Question whether I am scum hunting at all.

So a simple "you are being too helpful" tell; blew up quickly to a "wow, you've avoided answering to our first serious accusation" twice now.

By the way, the following is just a technical game comment. - Transcend skipped the RVS stage and he was first post. There was no RVS stage this game.

[Luca Blight]

Just to reply to this bit directly:

Do you know why IceGuy is so scummy? Because my vote on him was, I think, the first vote of the game with a real, actual scumtell for a reason.

But instead of addressing that reason he responds with (paraphrase):

"Are you really going to vote me seriously 2 posts into RVS?"

And that was followed by (paraphrase):
"Oh, he isn't serious about scumhunting" (in spite of being the first vote with a real reasoning) "he'll just lynch anybody"

lynch Iceguy

Underlined - To be fair, how is he supposed to respond to being accused of being overly helpful? It's not something he can exactly disprove.

Italics - He didn't say vote, he said scumread - quite a big difference as far as RVS goes.

Bolded - Here you have a point; it was an awkward comment, although I think it refers as much to the Transcend wagoning as much to his own.

[Luca Blight]

Are you still maintaining that IceGuy is scum? To be honest I thought the early wagon was just for pressure purposes and to get the game out of RVS.

His posts since RVS haven't really pinged me at all.

My wall of quotes detailed two instances after I made my accusation against him where he could have directly answered to my reasoning. I felt as though I had given the first vote out of the RVS stage. By definition, that means an actual reason. Specifically, it was the "I'm a helpful townie" tell because it felt forced to me given Transcend's experience and it was a "duh" type of post. If you are town I expect you to tell me why, right? It is a reasonable expectation. But what did he do?

#1 - Question me about whether I am serious after 2 posts in RVS.
#2 - Question whether I am scum hunting at all.

So a simple "you are being too helpful" tell; blew up quickly to a "wow, you've avoided answering to our first serious accusation" twice now.

By the way, the following is just a technical game comment. - Transcend skipped the RVS stage and he was first post. There was no RVS stage this game.

You can't really say there was 'no RVS stage' when myself and others made posts of an entirely RVS nature.

You have a fair point to say IceGuy's start wasn't impressive and was perhaps slightly scummy the way he got defensive so quickly, but am I sold on him being scum? Honestly, no. The last game I played he was Town and he looked scummy as hell right from the get-go. Some players you have to make some allowances for in that respect.

[Luca Blight]

Here is a post of a similar nature from the other game I mentioned:

I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.

So basically, you've decided that you want to start a wagon on me, and then tried to find reasons for it.

I made a big case on him (which he cut out of the quote) and he completely disregards it and says I'm just trying to find reasons to wagon him which, let's be honest, could be said about any wagon!

[IceGuy]

@Mod: Please check DeasVail's vote. The VC shows him as voting Elmo, but he's voting me.

So, you don't think it's alignment indicative, but you voted him when pointing it out and still say your vote is in the right place. How does this make sense?

Personally I found it to be fluff at best. Im going to contradict myself here I'm completely aware of this.

Okay, so this is not a satisfactory answer. I'm still not going to vote you, because my vote would be the hammer, but I wanted it to be a pressure vote.

I don't really see a reason to hammer you, because I fail to see a scum motivation for your actions. What I also don't see is a town motivation for your actions.

Also, my point on how fast this wagon came together still stands. The wagon reeks of scum which indicates to me that it's a wagon on town.

Do you know why IceGuy is so scummy? Because my vote on him was, I think, the first vote of the game with a real, actual scumtell for a reason. But instead of addressing that reason he responds with (paraphrase):
"Are you really going to vote me seriously 2 posts into RVS?"
And that was followed by (paraphrase):
"Oh, he isn't serious about scumhunting" (in spite of being the first vote with a real reasoning) "he'll just lynch anybody"

lynch Iceguy

The problem was that your reasoning was very flimsy. As in, you claimed something was a scumtell that isn't. There was a good reason for me to behave as I did.

Sure. IceGuy said something that didn't sound true (I quote it inline in post 94 above). He said it in a context where he had motivation to call ecto scummy, as ecto had voted him. I wanted to work out whether:
- It made more sense than I thought, and was neutral for IG
- It didn't make sense, and was a weak excuse to vote his voter. You can argue about how much that speaks to IG's alignment, but weak excuses for OMGUS are at least worth following up.

But I didn't vote Ectomancer? I actually said that while I considered it a scummy thing to do, I don't necessarily consider him scum for it.

I made a big case on him (which he cut out of the quote) and he completely disregards it and says I'm just trying to find reasons to wagon him which, let's be honest, could be said about any wagon!

But that was actually what happened in the game. You were scum and I was town, and you wagoned me to look more town and probably get me lynched.

So, let's have a look at the wagon on Elmo. The people on it are Ectomancer, Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle and Yuria. DeasVail isn't on it but both the mod and he himself think he is, so I'm going to include him here.

Luca and Transcend look solid town. Yuria was in the scum camp but is getting townier; mutant is null to me.

DeasVail is scummy, though. Few posts, hopping with little justification (or attempted hopping, to be precise), no commitment to town reads and "strong suspicion" on Transcend for the fake hammer. Hammering without a claim should elicit a harsher reaction than a rather quiet post.

I also don't like Ecto. He still defends his RVS/non-RVS vote on me and he had absolutely no problem with putting Elmo on L-1. Ironically he's being "helpful town" in 172, the same thing he called me scum for. I'm no longer ready to see his behavior as "scummy town", I believe it's "scummy scum".

VOTE: DeasVail

and ready to also vote Ectomancer if that wagon turns out to be more successful

[DeasVail]

IceGuy, I knew that Transcend was already on the wagon.

[davesaz]

@Mod: Please check DeasVail's vote. The VC shows him as voting Elmo, but he's voting me.

Thanks, VC's corrected!

[davesaz]

Elmo TeH AzN(5) - Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle, Yuria, Ectomancer
IceGuy(2) - Fishythefish, DeasVail
mutantdevle(2) - Elmo TeH AzN, havingfitz
DeasVail(2) - sheepsaysmeep, IceGuy
Luca Blight(1) - Viome
Ectomancer(1) - kelbris

not voting (0)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
(expired on 2017-11-12 15:00:00)

[Transcend]

Guys Elmo

[sheepsaysmeep]

Guys Elmo

what

[mutantdevle]

Wow still 8 days left to lynch... it’s really going to take me a while to get used to these long day phases :/

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Guys Elmo

what

Hes wanting to go into night one already

[Transcend]

Well you're the one who encouraged me to lynch you so

[Luca Blight]

Elmo, what circumstances are you referring to in 166?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Oh posting a recap of my thoughts

[IceGuy]

IceGuy, I knew that Transcend was already on the wagon.

Re-reading your post, you're right.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ectomancer

[Ectomancer]

Wow still 8 days left to lynch... it’s really going to take me a while to get used to these long day phases :/

Somebody else smack me.