Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[Luca Blight]

You're not exactly fighting her lynch either though, are you?

Why do you think she's Town?

[boring]

Okay kids, I'm ready for hammer. I believe I've done my best with this slot given the game state and composition.

-Iceguy is my best scumread. I don't think he can be scum with kelbris. I think it's possible for Ecto and Iceguy to be on the same team, however.

-I don't get the Yuria + Iceguy connection. It's possible Yuria is scum too, but I don't understand why they have to be scum together.

-I keep going back and forth on Ecto, Luca, and Daes. Keep a watch on the vote counts.

-Please don't overvalue of scum daytalk. It's rarely utilized as well as town imagines.

-There are a lot of conflicting personalities. Personality is NAI.

-Please, please don't develop amnesia on later days. If someone lurks/eeks their way into lylo then suddenly turns ubertown, for the love of puppies, review.

[IceGuy]

You're not exactly fighting her lynch either though, are you?

What, exactly, do you expect me to do what I haven't done?

Why do you think she's Town?

I thought Elmo was town because I failed to see the scum motivation in her actions and because her wagon came together suspiciously quick. That read passed over to boring, who has then proceeded to give good, well-reasoned reads (although she did get up too tangled in useless back-and-forth for my tastes, which is not necessarily AI). You might disagree with her read on you, because she says you're scum, but it's obviously to see that even if she's wrong (which I think, because I think you're town), she's not coming from a scum mindset.

[Luca Blight]

You're not exactly fighting her lynch either though, are you?

What, exactly, do you expect me to do what I haven't done?

Well, the fact I even had to ask you why you think Boring is Town is a sign you're not fighting her lynch. You haven't been trying to convince people Boring his Town, nor have you been pushing your scum reads particularly hard, barring a few passive-looking votes.

I thought Elmo was town because I failed to see the scum motivation in her actions

and because her wagon came together suspiciously quick.

That read passed over to boring

, who has then proceeded to give good, well-reasoned reads (although she did get up too tangled in useless back-and-forth for my tastes, which is not necessarily AI).

You might disagree with her read on you, because she says you're scum, but it's obviously to see that even if she's wrong (which I think, because I think you're town), she's not coming from a scum mindset.

Bolded

- But you also said you didn't see Town motivation in her actions either - why have you conveniently left this bit out?

Underlined

- Yes, the read passed over of her not doing anything town, nor anything scummy. That's what you call a null read, not a Town one.

Italics

- this is wrong - she is no longer saying I'm scum; I am now a null read to her. And why is it obvious it's not from a scum mindset? If it was obvious I wouldn't be voting her.

[Luca Blight]

-Iceguy is my best scumread. I don't think he can be scum with kelbris. I think it's possible for Ecto and Iceguy to be on the same team, however.

This needs to be explained.

[Yuria]

There's almost absolutely no way boring is scum rn

Transcend why would you role claim... the only way you’d survive the night is if you jail the person who tries to shoot you... you’ve basically just wasted your role...

if it means wasting my role over getting lynched over obvscum then imma do it

believe me i didn't really want to either

hardclaiming at l-3? you're really going to claim you were so in danger of getting lynched? bs. You wanted to lure out the jk for a one for one an i'll gladly do it. My life's worth one scum lynch instead of some shitty one easy.

VOTE: transcend

[Luca Blight]

So you're CC'ing?

If so I really would have waited at least until Tomorrow before doing so.

[Yuria]

yeah, and i thought about it. I can't let this lynch go through with how hard he's pushing it, I don't see how it could be a bus. might as well get this done now and let the rest of the info help the town than just try to get his lynch without claim.

[Luca Blight]

To be honest though, given Transcend's play this game, it wouldn't even surprise me if he was VT trying to eat a night-kill.

[IceGuy]

Well, the fact I even had to ask you why you think Boring is Town is a sign you're not fighting her lynch.

No, it just means that you haven't been paying attention. See #530 and #569.

You haven't been trying to convince people Boring his Town, nor have you been pushing your scum reads particularly hard, barring a few passive-looking votes.

You should know from 698 that this is my playstyle. I'm no Transcend.

Bolded

- But you also said you didn't see Town motivation in her actions either - why have you conveniently left this bit out?

Underlined

- Yes, the read passed over of her not doing anything town, nor anything scummy. That's what you call a null read, not a Town one.

You do not get to chop off half an argument. I thought she was town because no scum motivation + scummy wagon makes town in my book.

Italics

- this is wrong - she is no longer saying I'm scum; I am now a null read to her. And why is it obvious it's not from a scum mindset? If it was obvious I wouldn't be voting her.

Because scum would've likely chosen the easy way out (picking any established wagon and making arguments there). Boring isn't and I don't think she's playing a big game.

Also, VOTE: Transcend due to Yuria's counterclaim.

[Yuria]

To be honest though, given Transcend's play this game, it wouldn't even surprise me if he was VT trying to eat a night-kill.

then im done with this fucking game. There's no reason to do that ever, especially to get people to unvote you

[Luca Blight]

@IceGuy - I have been paying attention. In 530 you merely said:

"boring continues Elmo's tradition of not doing anything that seems to have a scum motivation, while also not doing anything that helps town"

And in 569 you merely said 'she had started to contribute in a towny way' - that hardly justifies a strong townread in of itself.

And I don't see your point then about Elmo (and Boring later on) not having town motivation if you were already hard townreading her based on her 'scummy wagon'? it's a pointless thing to say if you're not actually feeling conflicted over that slot.

[Luca Blight]

To be honest though, given Transcend's play this game, it wouldn't even surprise me if he was VT trying to eat a night-kill.

then im done with this fucking game. There's no reason to do that ever, especially to get people to unvote you

Yes it would be a stupid/risky play, but given his other claims I wouldn't have put it past him if I were in your position.

[Ectomancer]

@mod - vote count please

unvote

I don't want boring lynched.

[IceGuy]

@IceGuy - I have been paying attention. In 530 you merely said:

"boring continues Elmo's tradition of not doing anything that seems to have a scum motivation, while also not doing anything that helps town"

And in 569 you merely said 'she had started to contribute in a towny way' - that hardly justifies a strong townread in of itself.

And I don't see your point then about Elmo (and Boring later on) not having town motivation if you were already hard townreading her based on her 'scummy wagon'? it's a pointless thing to say if you're not actually feeling conflicted over that slot.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. I had Elmo as town because I failed to see a scum motivation for her actions and because of how the wagon came together. With boring replacing Elmo, I gradually became more confident in that read as boring started to display a town motivation.

[Luca Blight]

My first point was countering your point that you had been clearly explaining your Boring townread in the posts you mentioned - I proved that wasn't the case.

My second point - I assumed you had Elmo as 'null' at best due to your 'no scum motivation, no town motivation either' line. I certainly did not think you were townreading Elmo based on 212, nor does 530 do anything to make me think you're townreading Boring.

So my point here is a) the sequence of events seems off; you are not townreading (or at least making your townread clear) when you claimed to be in 702, and b) your comment of 'I don't see any town motivation' is a strange one to make of someone you're townreading - it's as if you want to leave the door open to wagoning later, but don't want to be held responsible for her lynch.

[IceGuy]

So your point is that my reads change as the game progresses. Okay.

By the way, I was suspicious about Elmo's wagon already in #158.

Also, you probably should've noticed that despite all the opportunities, I haven't jumped on Elmo's or boring's wagon. If I wanted a lynch of any of them, there would've been several possibilities to be the hammer.

[Luca Blight]

No, my point was that your reads weren't as you purported them to be.

And yes, you haven't jumped on Boring's wagon, but as I said I've never been under the impression you've been massively against it either; it hasn't come across that way.

[IceGuy]

No, my point was that your reads weren't as you purported them to be.

Direct quote:

I don't really see a reason to hammer you, because I fail to see a scum motivation for your actions. What I also don't see is a town motivation for your actions.

Also, my point on how fast this wagon came together still stands. The wagon reeks of scum which indicates to me that it's a wagon on town.

And yes, you haven't jumped on Boring's wagon, but as I said I've never been under the impression you've been massively against it either; it hasn't come across that way.

As I said, playstyle.

[Luca Blight]

Fair enough, although I still don't like how in 530 (your catch-up post) there is no indication of a townread on Boring, and she was at L-2 at that point I believe.

[Ectomancer]

vote Iceguy

[IceGuy]

Fair enough, although I still don't like how in 530 (your catch-up post) there is no indication of a townread on Boring, and she was at L-2 at that point I believe.

At that point, my boring townread was still very much based on my Elmo read.

[Luca Blight]

IceGuy, does it not bother you that you're Boring's 'best scumread'?

If someone I believed was Town was scumreading me more than anyone else it would probably bother me a bit. Your lack of reaction to it seems a bit strange to me.

[Ectomancer]

Don't lynch anybody until I come back with a breakdown post on events please.

Nobody else claim!

[IceGuy]

IceGuy, does it not bother you that you're Boring's 'best scumread'?

If someone I believed was Town was scumreading me more than anyone else it would probably bother me a bit. Your lack of reaction to it seems a bit strange to me.

No. Town is, without PRs, barely better than random lynching. So town is wrong about X being scum pretty often.