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[skitter30]

First HEM. RVS vote but unvoted when his wagon took off for no reason.

What's your opinion on HEM atm?

Guys, how do you classify bullshit vote reasons? Scum or town?

What does this mean and what are you referring to? I feel like this question is too general to have any meaningful answers.

Will Flubber get to L-1? That is the question.

I don't think he's done anything L-1 worthy, nor do I like the fact that you're implying we should put him there.

I also REALLY don't like Post 68 from twoinamillion. The reasoning seems manufactured and they had JUST finished trying to shut down any discussion involving Flub's claim. Seems a little sketchy to interpret Flub's post that way and turn it into a vote.

He usually seems super scummy as town, and tends to place votes for really bizarre, nonsensical reasons that just look super scummy. I don't think anything you've said here is AI for him.

please explain how claiming scum is a gambit.

to anyone asking why I'm voting flubber and not skitter: there's power in wagons and there's more then one scum.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a reaction test to see who is going to use that as a fairly thin excuse to opportunistically push him, kinda like how you, HEM, Chip, and Serg are doing. You still failed to explain why I'm scummy, or how you figured that out by post 13. You've also neglected to explain why you had a strong, delayed reaction to Flubber. I don't get why you waited until someone else pushed him if you feel so strongly on the subject.

Nothing with my reasoning. Both of these votes have weak reasoning.

You're characterizing my vote as weak but are also neglecting to consider the context that came before that (specifically 38, 40, and 42).

[Sergtacos]

Joking

K. I don't really like that you waited and built the suspense. Adding unnecessary confusion and uncertainty to the dialog is not pro-town. It also feasibly gives you time to see how the town is taking the claim before choosing whether you want to follow through or pull back. VOTE: sergtacos

In fact, let's increase the heat a little:

VOTE: Flubber

but hey lets sheep. VOTE: Flubbernugget

Are we serious right now? Where was this yesterday? What changed for you two?

I will note that I don't really like the hardline 'claimed scum must be scum' mentality. Flub seems to be a generally sarcastic/jokey type guy and I'm willing to believe it was a joke and move on for now. Refusing to move on when the game has moved far beyond that page 1 post seems lazy and anti-town, especially after ignoring the post initially. Chip butty and Serg look real bad in their recent jump over. While I don't like it in HEM or Wossi either they seem genuine and consistent in their behavior towards Flub unlike the two above. I also REALLY don't like Post 68 from twoinamillion. The reasoning seems manufactured and they had JUST finished trying to shut down any discussion involving Flub's claim. Seems a little sketchy to interpret Flub's post that way and turn it into a vote.

Guys, how do you classify bullshit vote reasons? Scum or town?

Are you asking whether giving bullshit reasons is a town or scum tell? Seems kind of like a false dichotomy to me. A bullshit vote is a bullshit vote, but you have to look past the given reasoning to see if its a scummy vote or not. Not to mention my idea of 'bullshit' reasons is very dependent on the player and game situation. How would you answer this question?

I really hope Sephiroth isn't scum because I love the synchronicity of the avatar, location and signature. And because I just generally love Sephiroth. I want to FoS you for unnecessary AtE.

You can't imagine how happy I was to learn that the username was not taken haha. Sephiroth has got to be one of the best videogame villains ever.

Not me

VOTE: flubbernugget
Seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Vote HEM please

Serg, 2inamil, and Flubbernugget deserve attention today.

I love attention

but hey lets sheep. VOTE: Flubbernugget

What changed about HEM that you went from trying to get votes on him to sheeping him?

First off I don't like Seph's tone's tone about building the suspsence? idk sounds scum like if you ask me because like i thought it was an obvious joke or fake claim in my opinion and Seph is sounding like she's trying to make it sound bad by force, thats what i mean by sounding scum.

Then skitter posted asking why i did that, same thing. Scum buddy post or innocent post? Not sure, but to me seem like 75% scum buddy and 25% innocent but then I had been in a scum game with skitter when we were scum buddies she was a hard lurker so this is very different. Meh, the other way i guess.

[implosion]

There is a

lot

of very scurrilous reasoning going around. I agree with Dany that Two's reasoning on flubber is just reading too far into how a particular sentence happened to be phrased. It might be alignment indicative that flubber felt the need to mention that he didn't want to feel bound to a certain activity level (I don't especially think it is but I could understand an argument for it) but I don't see the angle Two is pushing.

In general the people who are acting like "claiming scum" (which in and of itself is a really hyperbolic way to describe something that was incredibly obviously sarcastic) is more likely to come from scum need to just take a step back and think. Is there town motivation to post it? No, and there isn't scum motivation either. It's unmotivated. There's no particular reason to make a sarcastic statement that you're scum as either alignment. It's fine to think that's "icky" as lalendra put it... but you can't just jump from that to saying it's more likely to come from scum. "Town has no motivation to post this" is not an argument unless you can come up with motivation for scum to post it instead.

Looking at particular people:

I think town tend to avoid jokes like that because there's no upside and they don't need the aggravation. Scum, otoh, see an upside in getting pseudo towncred if they can get through the initial wave of suspicion.

On the contrary I'd argue aggravation is exactly what scum want to avoid, and something town don't generally care about as much. But I don't think a sarcastic "i'm not town" statement counts as having any potential to aggravate. Like it's kind of absurd that people are focusing so much on it.

Why do you think scum are okay with aggravation, and town want to avoid it? Me and basically every person I've ever seen talk about the general subject of willingness to agitate the gamestate/throw yourself out there would say that town are more willing to do so.

Those who joke about being scum are highly scummy for me.

Why?

I already addressed Wossi's argument and asked him some questions about hit which he has ignored. Serg's explicitly sheeping which is w/e.

I don't really have a read on flubber but this wagon is quite bad. But there's much better option in a competing Wossi wagon, with lots of Cool Interesting Great People on it and more to come?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi I'm focusing on another game right now and my work so I'm gonna engage soon.

[Flubbernugget]

I dropped the gambit in my second post. I don't understand how you can fail to see my motivation after that.

please explain how claiming scum is a gambit.

The risk is in getting a town mislynched.

The reward is getting a wealth of discussion to analyze.

[Flubbernugget]

That second part is a thing I did immediately after "claiming scum" btw so as weak as a gambit it was it still ultimately paid off.

[Flubbernugget]

Implosion,

I doubt the whole scum team is on my wagon. Where else is a good place to look for scum?

[wavemode]

VOTE: WickedestJr

[wavemode]

Flubber and Wossi both seeming like lynchbait at this point

[wavemode]

Also, as I said, 1st and 2nd to claim town are probably town

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not lynchbait

This town is just attracted to shiny objects

[wavemode]

With flubber I'd actually be surprised if he *hadn't* gone against the grain page 1. He's not a player who just goes with the flow

[wavemode]

Yawn

Wil vote the first person that votes me for not voting

Rather than participating in RVS, this is how Flubber started Open 694

So someone explain to me the scum motivation for him doing the exact same thing here, going against the grain and drawing attention to himself

Or else let's nuke this wagon and actually vote someone scummy

[wavemode]

Unvote. Vote: Wossi

(L-2)

I found these two comments particularly bothersome:

You are what you say you are, if you say you're scum you're scum. I dont really understand how that wasnt clear....

This comment doesn't sound like someone actually interested in figuring things out.

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

So skitter is scum but you would prefer to vote Flubber, who you acknowledge might be lying-town? Why is that?

Also, are you an alt? You sound slightly familiar.

This isn't scumhunting, this is hunting for excuses to park a vote on an already forming wagon

First is incredibly reachy and the quote is taken out of context

Second is similarly reading too deep and drawing a conclusion from nothing

VOTE: WickedestJr

[Lalendra]

I'm not sure I see the connection here. What are you withholding? If anything, you're oversharing. And yes, obviously town don't spam the thread with their favorite foods or whatever, because pizza is NAI. But you've made two comments which just sound like you're aching to be lynched and though I hate the "too scummy to be scum" angle most of the time, I'm really struggling to see where your motivation lies.

TIAM voted Flubber for 'Not liking that there are things you might not be upfront about', so that is why Flubber posted that in response. Could you also expand on why you think Flubber is to scummy to be scum?

Saying "I'm not town" and "my favorite color is red" is, in my opinion, too scummy to be scum. I think that's fairly self-explanatory but happy to discuss further.

VOTE: Lalendra

Was going to ask about this but the vote changed so nvm.

It's not reaching at all. He says "he's being upfront now" which implies there are things he's hiding. That's what scum do more than town.

That is definitely reaching.

[Flubbernugget]

Wave, I disagree with every point in 138

Sorry dude

[wavemode]

We'll see how it goes

[skitter30]

@wave:

What does the following line mean to you?

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

[Chip Butty]

Busy atm. Will be back in 8-10 hours. Will answer questions then.

[wavemode]

@wave:

What does the following line mean to you?

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

I think it's self-explanatory?

Is there something about it you find confusing?

[Wickedestjr]

First is incredibly reachy and the quote is taken out of context

I had read Wossi's post several times and it seemed pretty cut and dry. I don't see how I'm taking that out of context.

Second is similarly reading too deep and drawing a conclusion from nothing

Look I know it's not as strong as your "he was the second person to claim town" reasoning, but I'm trying my best here.

On a more serious note, I don't think I'm reading too deep here. Wossi demonstrated an unusual amount of confidence in his skitter scum read on page two, but his behavior doesn't make sense if that confidence is genuine.

[wavemode]

Look I know it's not as strong as your "he was the second person to claim town" reasoning

I townread Wossi on meta

Wossi demonstrated an unusual amount of confidence in his skitter scum read on page two

...Where? And what is an "unusual amount of confidence" anyway? Pointing out something suspicious and placing a vote?

his behavior doesn't make sense if that confidence is genuine

Right I forgot about that new rule where you're only allowed to scumread one person at a time

[implosion]

Implosion,

I doubt the whole scum team is on my wagon. Where else is a good place to look for scum?

You, or wavemode, or lalendra, or wicked. I don't especially think your wagon is

scummy

in its own right, though it has people on it that I am scumreading for reasons other than simply voting you with poor reasons. You might be scum. I think the wagon itself is bad in the sense of being unconvincing. I do think it's a decent place to look at the motivations of people voting there, hence trying to drill deeper into it. Off the wagon I have inklings of town from sephiroph and dany, though neither is as strong as those on skitter and serg.

Flubber and Wossi both seeming like lynchbait at this point

Also, as I said, 1st and 2nd to claim town are probably town

I townread Wossi on meta

You know I want to give a sarcastic response to all of this but. All of these points are incredibly deeply unconvincing. Saying "I townread him on meta" with zero additional context is about the least useful sentence that can be said in a game of mafia. And you're saying it in response to wicked's point that your other reasoning wasn't strong, as though "I townread him on meta" is a strong point. Like. no. If you think you have good reasons for townreading Wossi, explain them.

[iDanyboy]

First off I don't like Seph's tone's tone about building the suspsence? idk sounds scum like if you ask me because like i thought it was an obvious joke or fake claim in my opinion and Seph is sounding like she's trying to make it sound bad by force, thats what i mean by sounding scum.

I don't know it was a fake claim either until you said it was, and I think his right in that it was 'Adding unnecessary confusion ' so I don't think it's scummy.

Saying "I'm not town" and "my favorite color is red" is, in my opinion, too scummy to be scum. I think that's fairly self-explanatory but happy to discuss further.

Honestly, I just think that's his personality and something I could see him doing as either alignment.

...Where? And what is an "unusual amount of confidence" anyway? Pointing out something suspicious and placing a vote?

He thinks his found scum in skitters but can't explain why. The most I can get is that he was the first one to put a non-unique vote down. That argument is not an alignment indicative action and to say that he caught scum from that is suspicious.

[skitter30]

Wossi demonstrated an unusual amount of confidence in his skitter scum read on page two

...Where? And what is an "unusual amount of confidence" anyway? Pointing out something suspicious and placing a vote?

* he exhibits strong feelings about 'claiming scum' = 'scum' (a position that I think is unfounded), and hops on Flubber,

but only after HEM and Sephiroth start a thing there

* I point out this is odd and ask why he had a delayed reaction to something he apparently feels strongly about

*he responds by saying that he was distracted by having been excited by voting scum (me) in RVS, but fails to explain how or why I'm scummy

* I point out that he hasn't backed up his scumread on me (in fact, in my admittedly biased opinion, I don't think I said anything AI at that point). He actually placed a vote on me before I even posted, so you can't argue that his initial vote was based on anything I did. I would argue 'unusual amount of confidence' here means that he used his confidence in a post 13 scumread as an explanation for why he failed to push Flubber immediately. (13 because he said he failed to push Flubber in that post - his first post after Flubber did his thing - because he already has a scumread by that time).

I fail to understand why this reasoning is a reachy explanation for a vote at thus point in the game, so I don't understand why you dislike wicked's vote. I can understand the argument that it's derivative, because I made the point several pages before he did, but I don't think it can be classified as 'reachy.

Also, if you think this is reachy, I don't understand why you aren't objecting to like all the votes on the Flubber wagon, which are, for the most part, based on very thin reasoning, nor do I understand why you failed to argue that my vote was reachy when I had made a similar argument.