Mini Normal 1957: The Perfect LUV Game [Endgame]

[Apple Jack]

like your post 929 pretty much contradicts what you just said in 935.

I SAY I am having second thoughts and I explain WHY I am having them.

wossi lynch is a go guys. this isn't town. his ignorance earlier must have just been faked

[Apple Jack]

How can you just shift so casually?

i already explained and you quoted my explanation. so i don't understand how you are even asking me this question.

you either believe me or you don't but you can't sit there and say I never explained it cause that's a lie.

[Apple Jack]

I don't want you slipping under any radars

pretty sure I will never slip under any radars. I am always the most vocal member of every game I play.

[Apple Jack]

the bias against me is strong

I don’t what to argue with you anymore but when you say something factually untrue and not just me but somebody else corrects you. That isn’t bias. Maybe you are biased?

[Apple Jack]

I just don't like how he was so extreme and then backed down from it once he got a negative reaction from the town.

I didn't back off because of a negative reaction though.

[Apple Jack]

Don't say because I didn't know the scum set up, because you dropped it before then.

So you don’t want me to answer the question. Why ask it?

I didn’t drop anything before then actually. The only reason why I was threatening to kill myself is because you were flat out lying and giving me shit over a typo.

[Apple Jack]

So why stop?

I already explained why. you just told me not to give that answer again but my answer hasn’t changed.

So we can bounce back and forth or move on from this stupid argument.

You don’t like my answer that’s fine. But that’s the truth wether you like it or not.

[Apple Jack]

This is why I temporarily backed off.

I’m kind of torn on wossi now. I have to decide if he’s faking ignorance or if he legitimately didn’t know about 3 scum being standard.

More to the point: what specifically about this latest exchange is making you turn around on your deathtunnel position?

Just thinking of past experiences. Majority of the time when a newbie questions the number of scum in a game they have been town. I’ve seen only once where scum faked it.

My issue is he should have pointed it out sooner.

I’m not sold on you being town yet but historically what you did points to town. Could be fake.

[Apple Jack]

But you backed off and stopped threatening extreme actions before I said anything about 3 scum?

Yes I stopped threatening extreme actions before your 3 scum thing.

I didn’t stop pushing your lynch though.

Post 721 - is when I threatened to replace out
Post 725 - I tell Lord that I’m going to do the right thing and not ruin games.
Post 726 - I say pick one of us
Post 729 - I say it’s one of us
Post 733 - you can tell I still scum read you. I just say I’m not going to let you bait me into killing myself.
Post 740 - tells dunker to lynch one of us

Post 835 - you mentioned the 3 scum thing
Post 853 - is when I start trying to process of your 3 scum thing was a legit noob slip or not
And you know the rest cause you quoted it.

So I didn’t change my read on you BEFORE the 3 scum thing.

Nice try though.

[Apple Jack]

How many more pages do you people need?

This. It’s literally one of 3 people. What more can we learn by waiting?

[Apple Jack]

I do love it so much when somebody makes false statements and gets called out for them and then they double down on it and then they get proven wrong and they just drop it and move on and act like it never happened.

it's such a townie thing to do imo...

[Apple Jack]

you're poking at Tchill for not voting Xiao Long? Where did that even come from?

to play this game, town has to be curious about things. Especially things that don't make sense.

tchill wants XL dead and he is close to a lynch but doesn't vote him. That struck me as odd and I wanted to know why. This could be useful information at some point. Maybe not day 1, but later in the game.

[Apple Jack]

there was no deflective tactic. you asked me why I asked him a question, and I answered it.

I am not going to just make every single post a "lynch wossi" post. Even if a majority of them seem that way, I am still going to occasionally chime in on other things that catch my eye.

yeah, just stop talking to me, I will stop talking to you and I think everyone will be happier.

[Apple Jack]

I'm not interested in lynching xl. Many ppl agree Wossi should be the Lynch today.

Weird.

Like I really want wossi but if I can’t get him, I’ll be happy with xl.

You scum reading him but don’t want him lynched is bizarre.

[Apple Jack]

The people who still have their votes wasted on people not getting lynched aren’t helping either.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy fucking vote then

We covered this already

[Apple Jack]

Yeah you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Or stop misrepping people.

[Apple Jack]

Agreed.

[Apple Jack]

We need a vc

[Apple Jack]

When Wossi flips red at any point in this game, pay attention to who was trying so hard to divert his wagon right here

[Apple Jack]

Spoiler:

you'd be wrong

[Apple Jack]

lol literally nothing has happened from the VC on Saturday and the one today. This is why i said we should just lynch somebody. dragging the day when the lynch is narrowed down is a waste.

if your votes aren't on either Wossi or XL your vote is being wasted.

[Apple Jack]

Ultimatums with four days before deadline probably isn’t the most towny thing

learn the definition of an ultimatum before you falsely accuse people on one.

ul·ti·ma·tum
ˌəltəˈmādəm/Submit
noun
a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.


Nothing in my post suggests retaliation from me or anyone else.

[Apple Jack]

I made this post on Sunday

Unless somebody is going to make a compelling argument on someone else it seems wossy/xl are the most likely lynches with me as a 3rd option. No point in waiting a week to decide on these 3 people.

It is Wednesday now and literally nothing has changed. the vote count on Sunday is nearly identical if not exactly identical.

4 for you
4 for wossi

you both on me.

nobody has made a compelling case on somebody else.
wossi somehow has even made himself look scummier
you are being useless as you have all game.

neither of you are doing anything to convince people to vote me and you aren't really doing a good job convincing people to unvote you.

so let's end this day already since there is no point in letting it drag on. I can't speak for others but at this point I am getting bored and exhausted. If this keeps up people are going to replace out which makes the game harder.

[Apple Jack]

that isn't trying to out the vig. That statement or some variation of it has been made over and over again. Hell people have wished a vig shoot me at least 10 that I can think of off the top of my head, though I can't understand why they would want to vig shoot me when i am always obvious town.

[Apple Jack]

He’s either trying to out a vig or trying to set up a fake claim as SK. There’s pretty much no other reason for him to bring it up constantly.

Except I’ve literally seen the exact same thing many times before.

Like I get you took some time off or something but 2013 join date and you are this naive? I don’t buy it. This is fake.

[Apple Jack]

Site meta has shifted to the point that calling for the vig to shoot somebody happens probably almost every game or every other game.

Calling that out as scummy is fake news.

[Apple Jack]

yes please don't use the R word. people have been banned for it, I personally report it every time I see it because of stuff that has happened to real life friends and family with disabilities. There is no reason to use that word in this day and age.

[Apple Jack]

I’m still thinking Tyrion even if the vig stuff is incorrect

ok but that isn't happening.

1. nobody else really agrees with you
2. nobody really town reads you enough to want to vote with you
3. you don't have a good reason outside of pushing his scum read (townie act) and asking vig to shoot you (omgus)

so vote wossi or be useless af like you have been.

[Apple Jack]

ok dawg...

I hope tchill is the vig and he shoots you tonight

[Apple Jack]

day vigs need to be more common

[Apple Jack]

So they can shoot somebody. It can be me. I don’t mind dying

[Apple Jack]

You should only need one of us dead to sort your reads. Both of us will end up being bad for town.

Unless you both are scum.

[Apple Jack]

Stop trying to cooperate with xl. He's probably scum too.

Rofl
You're being obvious right now and no one cares but me. Sad.

You’ve been obvious all game.

[Apple Jack]

I feel like derp and tchill are the most town read people in the game and they're not going to change posting styles due to votes from a scum read player, dude.

On an unrelated note

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

PAGING FLAVOR LEAF TO THE THREAD

BUILD THAT WALL
BUILD THAT WALL
BUILD THAT WALL

[Apple Jack]

but you are so opposed to a wossi lynch also

[Apple Jack]

If I can’t get to this game, I’ll replace, but I have hopes I can...

It’ll be much easier day 2. Hang on and just vote wossi.

[Apple Jack]

How much longer are we going to dilly dally?

Way longer than we should have.

[Apple Jack]

so by my count wossi is at l-2

[Apple Jack]

If somebody puts him to l-1 I’ll hammer time

[Apple Jack]

Vote him and he’ll be at l-1. I’m hammering this wagon.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: wossi

[Apple Jack]

Did Wossi even claim?
Anime with the laziness. Cute.

He’s scum neighbor

[Apple Jack]

He’s also logged in since he’s been hammered and hasn’t posted.

[Apple Jack]

Will do some reading in a day or 2. I feel today should be spent pressuring somebody new

[Apple Jack]

I also think wavemode's death makes Porkens look bad.

I'm not sure you should go by this logic. Perhaps mafia killed because they thought the person was a power role.

More often it’s the person being right. Not too many scum pr hunt anymore

[Apple Jack]

Let's all revisit:

Do something less useless

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: gurgi

At least until I can read. Only scum would try to manipulate me wanting to reevaluate which is actually proper play.

[Apple Jack]

When I predict your play in advance, reacting by attacking me doesn't look good. Did you lynch your neighbor because you yourself were the scum neighbor?

First You didn’t predict shit. Let’s get that straight.

I don’t care how I look to you or anyone else. What you just did is manipulative as fuck. If you are town you’d be exited I’m going to read and reevaluate. You somehow think that’s a bad thing.

I lynched wossi cause I thought he was scum.

[Apple Jack]

You’ve been manipulative the entire game the more I think of it. You’ve pushing the me/xl team with literally no basis.

[Apple Jack]

You're delusional. You lynched your town neighbor, the one person in the game whom you had the most reason to believe was town.

Neighbor doesn’t guarantee town. It just means 2 people of unknown alignment. He said he assumed I was town in private and treated me like scum in public. That’s dishonest and scummy and didn’t make sense from town so he had to go. I’m sorry he’s a bad player but he should have done better

I predicted precisely what you're doing now.

Please link me to the post where you predicted I’ll make a post saying I want to re-read and re-evaluate.

I’ll be waiting until the world ends cause you’ve never made such a post.

I no longer believe the bad-at-the-game-townie narrative

Good because you shouldn’t have ever believed it and fuck anyone who said it. I’m not bad at this game. Other people are though. Wossi for example. Xl maybe. I’m null on him now.

How do you define manipulative.

Twisting actions into something they aren’t. For starters.

I've been pushing the second most successful wagon, which you have claimed to agree with, but refused to support

Clearly you don’t know the definition of death tunneling. Go learn that and come back to me. The fact I was unwilling to move of MY TOP SCUM READ. Doesn’t mean I’m scum with your top scum read. that is what you have been trying to sell all game and that’s manipulative.

[Apple Jack]

stop
we get it you're both town

Do something useful please. You’ve done literally nothing

[Apple Jack]

stop this tvt stuff and vote xiao long
thx <3

Make a detailed case on him please.

[Apple Jack]

stop this tvt stuff and vote xiao long
thx <3

Make a detailed case on him please.

no?

Then stfu. You can’t tell people who to vote if you can’t provide reasons.

[Apple Jack]

I'd dare to say he's lost a bit of credibility to me.

Based on what exactly?

[Apple Jack]

Yeah the vote switch is weird considering I was “lock town” a while ago. I don’t see what the issue is with wanting to take time to reread and reevaluate. Like I still think XL is scummy and I’ll vote to lynch him today without any qualms but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to pressure other people. That’s why Gurgi is scummy. That’s really why everyone who fake in guns blazing are scummy.

Day 1 was a madhouse. Let’s chill out and hear from those who were hiding in the shadows or sat back and didn’t really contribute much.

[Apple Jack]

I really hate when people give people outs before they have a chance to answer a question that’s being asked by 2 different people.

Normally people who are going to reevaluate say they are going to or say they have. They don’t typically do a 180 right after being asked for a case on their top scum read and they refused.

I’m pretty much never voting anyone you want me to the rest of the game. You are too manipulative to be town

[Apple Jack]

Like your first post in the game is probably the worst I’ve ever seen and in no way does it show a townie mindset.

[Apple Jack]

Dave and flavor, need more content from you guys.
chick is probably scum but i don't really know how to verbalize it.
XL sadly I think is just trolling town and his antics day 1 distracted us but I have no qualms hammering him like I did wossi.

gurgi/chick are who I am liking for scum right now. the 3rd is kind of hard for me but i feel good about the first 2

[Apple Jack]

well for starters I have literally done NO tunneling today so that is just a bold face lie.

there really isn't anything wrong with hammerings somebody who is a detriment to town winning this game.

so yeah, your explanation is bad.

[Apple Jack]

lol, I just realized all of the reasons you gave for your comment either never happened (tunneling today) at all or happened AFTER you made the comment.(saying I would hammer XL)

so are you going to actually pretend to come up with something better or can we just write you off as caught scum?

[Apple Jack]

well for starters, you were tunneling wossi also so you can't really get put the blame solely on my shoulders. He got to l-1 without me even voting him. I feel like if you were town, you'd be looking at the other people on the wagon. I had good reason for scum reading him. Did you? did others?

like today you think both neighbors are town, but you clearly didn't think that yesterday. what changed?

The issue with compiling reasons AFTER the comment was made, is I asked you the original justification for the comment which you have yet to provide.

[Apple Jack]

[Apple Jack]

it's a little hypocritical if you ask me

[Apple Jack]

@Derpy can you reply to me, please?

I didn't see you ask me something. did I miss it?

[Apple Jack]

Why wouldn't you vote pressure every single day?

Cause I have a tendency to death tunnel and almost everyone says it’s for stupid reasons (though I disagree) and it ends up creating pages and pages of back and forth arguments which end up 1. making people annoyed with the game, 2. Replace out and the replacements almost never catch up proper, and 3. Makes it almost difficult for anyone to actually decipher who’s town and scum which usually ends up with town losing.

So until I can learn how to tell the difference between scummy town and scummy scum, I’ve adopted this strategy to make the game more enjoyable for others.

I still involve myself in conversations. I still give reads. I just don’t death tunnel.

How's this strategy working out?

I will be honest, the previous day phase didn't go at all how I wanted it to. I didn't want to get involved in any sort of tunneling. but shit happens. I still don't know wtf wossi was doing.

[Apple Jack]

Cmon what? Stepping all over peoples stupid gambits? Hell no. People need to stop doing stupid shit and play the fucking game

You are a total hypocrite.

How?

[Apple Jack]

Ok, so you believe everything you say. Got it.

Yes. I do.

[Apple Jack]

Cmon what? Stepping all over peoples stupid gambits? Hell no. People need to stop doing stupid shit and play the fucking game

You are a total hypocrite.

How?

Your play has been atrocious. You have been fully committed to doing "stupid shit".

Since when is trying to get my scum read lynched “stupid shit”?

Sorry you fail

[Apple Jack]

The "stupid shit" I'm referring to is the mindless tunneling on one slot, ignorance of most other slots, and the disrespectful way you communicate with other human beings.

How is berating people pro-town?

Knowing now that Wossi was town, and after reflecting on your play, how will you avoid tunneling a townslot to death in the future?

First of all. You do realize he didn’t get to l-1 by accident right? I just hammered. Humans have this thing called free will. They can do what they want. I didn’t force anyone to vote him.

My death tunneling my scum read isn’t stupid. I didn’t ignore other players either

I’ve been trying to stop tunneling for 5 years. Clearly I can’t.

[Apple Jack]

Xiao is locktown.

No he isn’t

[Apple Jack]

How is tunneling a town slot to death pro-town?

Didn’t know he was. Didn’t even think he could be.

[Apple Jack]

Also, you didn't answer this question: "How is berating people pro-town?"

P-edit: Liar. You thought he might be town.

EBWOP: you

said

you thought he might be town.

I said wossi may be town?

[Apple Jack]

Also, you didn't answer this question: "How is berating people pro-town?"

P-edit: Liar. You thought he might be town.

EBWOP: you

said

you thought he might be town.

I said wossi may be town?

yes.

Hmm. I really don’t remember that. I was scum reading him the entire day.

[Apple Jack]

you can lynch me too i don't mind it's just i have no idea who is scum right now

You seemed to think xl was but refused to make a case. You also aren’t attempting to figure it out.

That’s troubling.

[Apple Jack]

I’m kind of torn on wossi now. I have to decide if he’s faking ignorance or if he legitimately didn’t know about 3 scum being standard.

Are you talking about this?

[Apple Jack]

Ok so for a period of less than 24 hours I thought there was a slight chance he could be town. My bad.

[Apple Jack]

You’d agree with what exactly? That is a terrible post

[Apple Jack]

With the xiao vote except he is lockdown.

Listen up.

Nobody is EVER lock town unless they have been mod confirmed town or cop inno and we know there is nothing altering the results.

[Apple Jack]

Well clearly not since wossi wasn’t.

But I don’t see how anyone can townread lg.

[Apple Jack]

Only person in that group is definitely vote is dunkers. I will have issues being on a wagon with chick and Gurgi.

For now I like my Gurgi vote. But instead of death tunneling I’ll at least give him a chance to do something townie or convince me he’s town. Haven’t seen anything yet and his manipulative behavior is going to be hard to overlook.

[Apple Jack]

That post you like so much is one example.

The posts that he made before I voted him is another

[Apple Jack]

Can someone that townreads Xiao tell me why? @Derpy, since I think you're town and you seem to town read Xiao, can you explain to me since it seems no one else can?

@Derpy

Read the part about bad posting vs scum posting. I don’t really see scum intent. As I said earlier he just looks to be a troll.

viewtopic.php?p=9341829#p9341829

[Apple Jack]

But feel free to show me some posts with scum intent.

[Apple Jack]

XL was doing more scum hunting than anyone else on day 1 even if he actually is scum.

Idk about this.

[Apple Jack]

If I’m such a shit player and a distraction like everyone send to think. Get rid of me now. Mafia won’t kill me.

[Apple Jack]

Remove xl, Gurgi, and chick

Tchill is townier than those 3.

[Apple Jack]

Xl - trolling no genuine scum hunting
Gurgi - manipulate and no genuine scum hunting. Thinks it’s scummy to reevaluate
Chick - tunneled with me but somehow thinks it’s scummy I tunneled. Aside from that, I don’t really see much genuine scum hunting.

Tchill and I are essentially on the same wavelength. I agree with his day 1 posts and pushes.

[Apple Jack]

Who would you replace them with?

Nobody. I don’t like blocks and don’t really want to be in one

[Apple Jack]

Can we all compromise on a dunkerdoodles' lynch?

What’s your case?

[Apple Jack]

nah, dunkers isn't low hanging fruit. he has played long enough he should be doing more/better and the fact he isn't is scummy.

[Apple Jack]

well then he doesn't get a free pass and people suspicious of them doesn't deserve suspicion. so I guess you can stop looking at Anime, and maybe look at dunker a little more.

[Apple Jack]

well then he doesn't get a free pass and people suspicious of them doesn't deserve suspicion. so I guess you can stop looking at Anime, and maybe look at dunker a little more.

Not a good post.

You're shading Dunk for his play style, and protecting Anime here. Why?

it absolutely is a good post.

Dunkers is playing scummy so he doesn't get a free pass. Anime has noticed it and wants to scum read him for it. That shows sign of a good player.

You want to ignore it and scum read people who find dunkers scummy aka chainsaw defending dunkers. This is a sign of either scum or a bad player.

[Apple Jack]

@anime - thanks. I could be down for a dunkers wagon.

[Apple Jack]

find it funny that chick comes to dunkers defense first and has the nerve to ask why I am defending somebody.

so chick, why are you defending dunkers?

[Apple Jack]

and i'm sorry but "dunkers being dunkers" or "this is his playstyle" don't work for me.

[Apple Jack]

So why do we give you a pass and not Dunk

I honestly don't know why anyone does tbh. They shouldn't. I could totally be scum here pulling the wool over everyone's eyes.

but I find it odd that wossi (who is now confirmed town) got to L-1 without me placing a vote on him.

I'd rather examine the people on that wagon which is sort of what i am doing. I am suspicious of 2/3 people on the wagon and 1 off

[Apple Jack]

There's no compelling evidence telling me Dunk is scum.

his play this game is compelling evidence he could be scum. There isn't much you can point to that looks town.

[Apple Jack]

Don’t start AtE now after all the other stuff you said on D1 about other people being bad players.

whats your Dunkerdoodles read.

Scum

All of his posts are about him not having any reads and just voting randomly which makes me think he’s having trouble developing honest reads cause he already knows who is and isn’t scum.
He also doesn’t ask questions or scumhunt.

It’s possible he’s just a really invisible town, but since I don’t know how he plays, I’m assuming he’s scum.

so he is pushing a dunkers case and has made a bunch of posts explaining why he is scum. that sort of contradicts what you are saying, so what are your thoughts on his case and what is your read of dunkers?

[Apple Jack]

Is that directed at me?

obviously, since I quoted your post and mentioned specific things you said...

[Apple Jack]

In that case I don’t understand what you’re asking and need you to restate.

on second thought. me this time.

nevermind. continue

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: dunkers

this wagon should happen.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: dunkers

this wagon should happen.

Why not start with Tchill?

are you not reading my posts? I have already explained that I think he is townier than 3 of the people in YOUR proposed town block aka I am not scum reading tchill.

I am scum reading dunkers/gurgi/chick with dave/flavor as outliers but more towards null.

[Apple Jack]

No one ever told me why xl was obv town. I'm still waiting on that one too.

yeah i'd like that also since he clearly isn't.

[Apple Jack]

I'm questioning why you scum read chickadee instead of xl? @derpy.

I’ve explained both already

[Apple Jack]

No one ever told me why xl was obv town. I'm still waiting on that one too.

yeah i'd like that also since he clearly isn't.

I am intentionally ignoring these.

why?

[Apple Jack]

It was the fact that he was sticking up for anyone by shading someone else. It came off as really scummy.

so it's scummy when I do it not not when you do it?

[Apple Jack]

It was the fact that he was sticking up for anyone by shading someone else. It came off as really scummy.

so it's scummy when I do it not not when you do it?

Smh I confused chick and somebody else.

I need to read better.

[Apple Jack]

@chick. If you have an issue with shading/defending. Why are you at least being consistent about it?

[Apple Jack]

St least not being consistent *

[Apple Jack]

Derpy, tchill agreed with you all the way down the mislynch. How do you read that?

I’ll need to read some things but he’s not of the least suspicious on the wagon.

[Apple Jack]

One of the least*

[Apple Jack]

I'd love to see your comparative analysis of votes on that wagon.

Derpy, tchill agreed with you all the way down the mislynch. How do you read that?

Actually tchill was on wossi before I was.

Chick hopped on after I outed the Hood info and latched on to that. She didn’t do much else.

Dave’s vote looks bad. Replaces in. Does some catch-up posts and votes but doesn’t really have much reason for it.

Porker - you hop back and forth between the 2 main wagons. That’s kind of opportunistic. I’d put tchill over you on a town list just off that alone.

Nauci gave some good reasons for her vote and was trying to push others.

Dunker - does the same as you. Hops back between wossi and xl.

So from worst to best on the wagon.

Tie for worst - you/dunker
Dave
Chicka
Tchill
Nauci
Me - best

So today I’ll vite dunker or porker

[Apple Jack]

ooo i'm getting wagoned this is fun

derpy's 90% scum now. i was scum reading him earlier for implying a townread on me when he had no reason to.
now he flips around and scum reads me

My memory is prett shit. I honestly don’t remember implying you were town. Link please? I can’t find it when I search your name in my posts.

[Apple Jack]

So basically you are full of shit and did a 180 on me for no reason what so ever.

Got it.

[Apple Jack]

stop
we get it you're both town

Do something useful please. You’ve done literally nothing

stop this tvt stuff and vote xiao long
thx <3

Make a detailed case on him please.

no?

Then stfu. You can’t tell people who to vote if you can’t provide reasons.

posts like these

I had you at null. I was hoping you’d do something so I could get a read on you. And then you finally did. You did something to make me scum read you.

[Apple Jack]

I’m not being an asshole.

[Apple Jack]

You sheeped a wagon that lynched town with flimsy reasoning.

This isn’t true though. He voted wossi before I did.

[Apple Jack]

I mean you can argue tchill was trying to buddy me but you can’t say he sheeped me.

[Apple Jack]

I was looking for someone to make the point nauci made when I asked about flavor leaf. So I feel pretty good about nauci being town. Then derpy then chickadee. That's all my town reads. Xl and porkers are my scum reads.

Must have missed something, marking this to come back to.

This is interesting though.

Tchill how did me and chick go from town to chick scum and I’m the same alignment as chick?

[Apple Jack]

i never roll scum so i don't have a scum game
i have like 2 scum games and maybe 15 town

Second sentence contradicts the first

Dunkers was useless scum in one game I was in with him where I replaced out.

I do agree with chick that dunkers is just being dunkers. But he basically does it as either alignment.

Most players will try to play the same way as either alignment.

[Apple Jack]

That’s why I hate meta. If somebody is scummy they are scummy. I don’t care if they have a history of playing scummy.

[Apple Jack]

i'm going to lock in a scum in (porkens, tchill, chick)

Reasons?

[Apple Jack]

The things you did on D1 make no sense as a towny.

hilarious you of all people are saying this.

[Apple Jack]

At least your honest about it.

[Apple Jack]

I feel like if a player keeps getting mislynched, he’d probably want to change at some point. But that’s just me. I don’t believe in meta so I don’t care how he’s played other games.

[Apple Jack]

It's pretty bs to not believe in meta since you've spent the whole game talking about your history of tunneling and not being able to stop yourself from that sort of bad play.

It’s not BS. Nobody should town read me because I’m tunneling.

The difference is tunneling isn’t scummy. Anti-town maybe (personally disagree)

Vote hopping, refusing to give reads, and opportunistic voting is scummy.

I physically am unable to ignore scummy behavior. I certainly won’t give it a free pass.

[Apple Jack]

We’re not even fighting. We’re having a conversation

[Apple Jack]

nauci and derpy, how do you feel about a chickadee lynch? that's where i'm leaning.

She’s in my pool of scum suspects. So sure.

[Apple Jack]

Well the last line of that post by her is an outright lie so we can definitely lynch her

[Apple Jack]

I get that. I have the same paranoia with neighbors. That’s why I didn’t instantly town read wossi. It’s why I scum read him for talking out of both sides of the mouth.

[Apple Jack]

chick's style of posting seem well thought out and almost cautious. someone make sure im not being biased please.

No I agree.

Side note.

At some point I need to re-look at wossi’s arguments for his scum reads.

[Apple Jack]

Well you didn’t.

[Apple Jack]

No that's dunkers lol.

Porkens is dunkers?

[Apple Jack]

That explains a lot

[Apple Jack]

Less since clarissa explains it all.

[Apple Jack]

Scum claim? My actions point to obv town not scum.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: chick

[Apple Jack]

I’ve said why previously. Go back and find it. Don’t be lazy.

[Apple Jack]

Cause I didn’t post one obvi. Doesn’t mean I haven’t given reasons including the most recent reason right before my vote.

[Apple Jack]

I don’t like making cases. I give reasons and expect people to read them.

[Apple Jack]

You already have ignored my posts in the past so I’m certainly not going to jump through hoops for you.

[Apple Jack]

That requires me to go back and find all the reasons I’ve given and post them which is hard to do on my phone. Plus I don’t like doing extra work and enabling lazy people. Go read if you want. Iso me and ctrl+f chicka.

[Apple Jack]

Ok. So don’t act like you care what my reasons are if you actually don’t.

[Apple Jack]

I don’t need anyone to make a case for me. I’m not even obligated to make a case. Provide reasons (which I’ve done) and vote to lynch (which I’m doing) is all I’m required to do.

[Apple Jack]

The general rules of mafia.

[Apple Jack]

He just posted his read list a while back

[Apple Jack]

The general rules of mafia.

What general rules?

The ones of mafia...

[Apple Jack]

Idk like google it or something

[Apple Jack]

Posts spam complaining about spam

[Apple Jack]

Tchill. You don’t need to defend me or the votes on me. Whoever is actually town should see the red flags with that chick vote.

[Apple Jack]

Tchill. You don’t need to defend me or the votes on me. Whoever is actually town should see the red flags with that chick vote.

i'm about as neutral as i can get on you atm and i'm not sure how to go about sorting you atm.

Easy. Have I done anything scummy? No

I’m town

[Apple Jack]

The thing that bothers me the most about Derpy is the whole pushing Wossi thing but trying to distance himself from the tunnel at the same time.
It felt manipulative to me -- hey guys, lynch here, but try to forget that I was the one making you do it because I can't keep myself from tunneling...

I didn’t make a single person vote wossi. It’s impossible to make anyone do anything in this game.

I pushed for his lynch. As did others. I’d say 3 people equally tunneled on wossi. Me/chill/chick.

People want to blame me, that’s fine but don’t say I forced anyone to vote wossi. It’s bullshit

[Apple Jack]

i mean for me porkens, chick or dunker is definitely the lynch today.

Dave over porkens imo. But wouldn’t object to him either.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: Derpyhooves

Why do you scumread Chickadee?

Interesting

[Apple Jack]

You are all over the place. If you are scum you are obvious. If you are town you are obviously not trying to win.

[Apple Jack]

That’s not true.

[Apple Jack]

I've scumread you since my re-read. That never changed. Being all over the place in thread draws scrum out. It's pretty obvious toe that your strat to support a wossi lynch but refusal to vote on it is a contrived way to stay off a mislynch.

You are scrum.

1. I didn’t stay off
2. I made my strategy known from the beginning of the game and it’s one I’ve used in other games.

So basically you are have no reason to scum read me. Your play has been terrible. So like I said if you are scum you are obvious. If you are town you aren’t trying to win.

Either alignment you should do better.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy freaking hammered what are you talking about refusal to get on it?

Dude please stfu. I don’t need you to defend me.

[Apple Jack]

How is my play hurting town?

If you are town you aren’t scum hunting and that hurts town.

[Apple Jack]

He refused to vote his scumread unless he was forced to hammer. Same thing.

Pre-determine strategy regardless of alignment.

Try again

[Apple Jack]

Where has my play been terrible?

Almost all of it.

[Apple Jack]

Where has my play been terrible?

Almost all of it.

That's a non answer.

Only cause I don’t have time to quote every shitty post you’ve made.

Want something specific? Voting a town read. That’s shit play

[Apple Jack]

He refused to vote his scumread unless he was forced to hammer. Same thing.

Pre-determine strategy regardless of alignment.

Try again

Prove it.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73542

The rest are ongoing.

[Apple Jack]

I have never voted a townread.

Lies

[Apple Jack]

Derpy Hooves
Flavor Leaf

Xiao Long
Tchill13
Animetrix

Chickadee
Nauci
Dunkerdoodles

sheepsaysmeep Lord Gurgi
Mumble davesaz

VOTE: Derpyhooves

Why do you scumread Chickadee?

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: porkens

Lynch all liars

[Apple Jack]

I don’t care if I die. I’ve pretty much caught all 3 scum and they know it and are nervous.

If I’m lynched town is lynching chicka/dunkers/you/Dave and it’s game over.

So I’m fine going first.

[Apple Jack]

Fair enough, making was a bad choice of words. The point is more that you were trying to disavow it all day at the same time as pushing it.

No sorry. Doesn’t work like that. Everyone is responsible for their own vote. Holding them accountable is how you scum hunt properly

[Apple Jack]

Fair enough, making was a bad choice of words. The point is more that you were trying to disavow it all day at the same time as pushing it.

No sorry. Doesn’t work like that. Everyone is responsible for their own vote. Holding them accountable is how you scum hunt properly

Getting town to vote for the people you want them to is exactly how scum works.

It’s exactly how town works also. Imagine that.

I had legitimate reasons for wossi. Did everyone else in the wagon?

[Apple Jack]

Hold deeply accountable for encouraging and hammering town.

This isn’t a town post.

[Apple Jack]

At this point game is solved so not going to waste anymore energy arguing with scum.

Chick/dunk/Dave/pork. All scum are in here. The other is having a really shitty game.

[Apple Jack]

It’s not wrong and if you were town you would know how to find scum on a wagon. You don’t go after the person who had the best reasons ever given the entire game.

P.edit - no chance. And if you are town I’m blacklisting your shitty ass. But you probably aren’t.

[Apple Jack]

Getting out ahead of that strategy does not make it a good one.

Good or bad strategy doesn’t matter. It’s literally not alignment indicative cause I’m doing it every game now. It’s a play style. The fact that I’ve done it as town makes the argument that I’m scum for it null.

At best I’m town again. At worst I’m scum mimicking my town play. Since you can’t tell which is which, it’s not alignment indicative.

Also in another post you say you are looking at my actions, which ones are those exactly?

I tunneled wossi for good reasons.

You tunneled wossi FOR MY REASONS.

If we are looking at scummy actions, hands down yours are. I don’t really remember you bringing anything new to the table. You also kind of laid low most of day 1, which you admitted but said that’s how you play.

I guarantee you or nobody else this game can provide solid evidence as to why I’m scum because I’m not scum and haven’t done anything that’s scummy.

[Apple Jack]

Yea, that's straight up scum back pedaling in the hood.

VOTE: Wossi

We do still have a lot of day left though.

Baaa baaa bad sheep

[Apple Jack]

I did straight up sheep the Wossi wagon though.


I'm TRing Derpy, he's been really transparent with what he says. Stubborn, but transparent.

Here you admit you’ve sheeped and you give reason for TRing me which hasn’t changed. Still being transparent. Still being stubborn.

[Apple Jack]

People who argue day 2 that my day 1 strategy was scummy or even alignment indicative lose credibility. 1. You didn’t try to lynch me day for it and 2. You were on the wagon of the person i was scum reading.

If you had issues you would have been vocal from the beginning. Being wrong doesn’t automatically make my strategy scummy.

[Apple Jack]

So many vote changes, I can't keep up anymore. Why did the dunkerdoodles wagon die. Can someone give me a reason why they are town?

Probably because on this site you can lurk your way out of suspicion. Porkens does a 180 out of the blue and all of sudden attention is diverted.

But really more attention needs to be on chick. She is vey likely scum.

[Apple Jack]

I’m not though

[Apple Jack]

Go ahead and vote me cause if I get lynched town deserves to lose.

The entire scum team is pushing my mislynch. Whoever is town don’t be duped.

[Apple Jack]

I guess I don't like how Porkens has been all over the place, but I think Dunker lynch is better.

Thoughts on chick?

[Apple Jack]

I agree with chill about dunkers. He’s not a good player at all and he could possibly be town here but he doesn’t show anything that looks like he’s genuinely looking for scum. He’s either scum or he’s probably getting back at me for getting him mislynched in the past which wouldn’t surprise me.

Chick’s actions look the most blatantly scummy. Porkens also.

Basically anyone who sheeped me day 1, but day 2 says I’m scum for my day 1 play is suspicious as fuck.

[Apple Jack]

Chick did and admitted she did. I even quoted it. Fail harder.

[Apple Jack]

And you basically did also.

[Apple Jack]

You moved off wossi to xl until I posted my info. Your response to my post was sounds good and you included me in your stupid bloc.

Chick wasn’t even voting wossi until I made my post and she later admits she sheeped.

Fail some more scum boy

[Apple Jack]

Facts don’t lie. You do though.

[Apple Jack]

You still haven’t proven your argument. How many more times before you fail?

[Apple Jack]

Before you give up*

[Apple Jack]

Hmm.

Tchill voted for his own reasons before I voted wossi. (This isn’t sheeting)

You changed from XL to wossi because of my reasons (this is sheeping)
Chick voted wossi because of my reasons. (This is sheeping).

But like you aren’t a n00b so you know what sheeping is. So this was kind of a pointless exercise.

[Apple Jack]

In 1454, you said nothing about intention or reason, purely that tchill voted first.

Now you are trying to change the definition of sheeping to suit your argument.

In fact, much of what you say seems to be based on what other people should think, rather on what they do tthink.

lol I haven't changed the definition of sheeping. Its been the same in the 10+ years I have played mafia.

Tchill voted wossi before I did, so there is no way anyone can argue he sheeped me.

you and chick changed your votes because of my reasons. which is textbook sheeping.

[Apple Jack]

voting somebody for somebody else's reasons

[Apple Jack]

Seriously, hydra with me ok?

I’m not a fan of hydra-ing in general. If you are scum, I’ll think about it. If you are town though no chance.

[Apple Jack]

God damn dude I'm trying to catch up and every post from derpy is somehow increasingly irritating and useless catfighting.

defending myself isn’t really cat fighting

[Apple Jack]

Idk what that even means and I’m certainly not trolling.

I’ll just say that to find scum, You have to look at motivations. Generate good original reasons on somebody, putting pressure on them, and trying to get them lynched shows town motivations. Scum have difficulty scum hunting since they know who scum is.

So to find scum on a wagon, you have to look at who was on it legitimately and who wasn’t.

I’ve done that already and posted my thoughts in a previous post. The people on the wagon are the people I’m pushing as scum. 2 of those people have now done a 180 on me and are now calling me scum. These 2 people didn’t have original reasons for being on the day 1 wagon, and on day 2 are discrediting my day 1 methods as scummy.

I don’t see town motivation for that. If they had issues with it day 2, they should have issues with it day 1. They didn’t. That’s scum mindset, not town.

I’m done interacting with you. I don’t see town trying to find scum. I see scum trying to protect chicka for at least the 2nd time.

I’m ignoring you from now on porkens. I’m ignoring chicka also. I’m not inflating the pages anymore arguing with my scum reads.

[Apple Jack]

Here are the things chick has said about me being scummy or scum.

My tunneling day 1 - fair I guess. Personally I don’t think it’s scummy but I’ve been doing it for 10 years so obviously I’m biased. What I don’t understand though is I wasn’t the only one. Chick not only tunneled day one, but she tunneled based of MY REASONS. Which makes her a hypocrite if she honestly thinks tunnelling is a good reason to scum read someone.

My stance that I think XL is probably town but would lynch - fair point also I guess. But I’m not 100% sure he’s town and he’s been useless all game. Not to mention I was scum reading him yesterday. If others agree he should be lynched I’m not going to fight it, but I’m not pushing it either.

She accuses me of shading dunk for his playstyle and defending anime which I feel is a misrep. Somebody else said that this is dunkers play style and anime deserves suspicion because he’s pushing dunkers. All I did was say that isn’t a good idea. Nobody should get a free pass for their playstyle. If chick disagrees with me on that point, which it seems she does, then in theory she should be giving me a free pass since what I’m doing this game is my playstyle. She can’t have it both ways. If dunker gets a free pass for his playstyle, everyone else does too. If he doesn’t (which is what I said) then I don’t (and she’s not). So I see nothing wrong with what I did and have an issue with Nauci (think it was her) for suggesting dunkers gets a pass. She completely misrepresented the entire situation about this for multiple posts. I wasn’t specifically trying to defend anime, more so I was telling Nauci his train of thought about giving people a free pass is wrong.

The interesting point here though that while she is doing this, she’s actually protecting dunkers in the process and even defends him saying he hasn’t done anything scummy which is very false imo. She says there is no compelling evidence to scum dunkers which I believe is also false.

Moving on. She accuses me of being a hypocrite on a few fronts, yet this is the first time she’s said anything about me being a hypocrite. She doesn’t say what these things are either. Considering she’s been a hypocrite herself though I don’t know how she can really have the nerve to use that as an actual accusation because that would make her a hypocrite... mind blown

Also in this post she defends suspicion on herself by saying she posts few words as either alignment. So If she thinks that’s an acceptable defense, then she literally has no basis for scum reading me because everything I’m doing this game is stuff I do as town in almost every game, and most likely done as scum in a bunch of games. So if dunkers gets a pass for his playstyle, and she wants to defend her lack of words as her playstyle she can’t then use other people’s playstyle against them. That’s hypocritical.

Now the vote on me. She says everyone is saying it’s stupid for town reading me based on the neighbor thing. But I don’t really remember anyone but myself saying that. Just think about that. What motivation do I as scum have for telling people to stop town reading me for the neighbor thing? Sure wifom, but no scum is going to go out of his way to tell people to drop the townread and scum read them. So she votes me based on my actions.

My actions are things that

1. Are my playstyle. So for those people who buy into that meta bullshit and who have defended themselves and others for them playing to their play style, you can’t pick and choose here. Playstyle defense is an all or nothing type thing.

2. Not scummy - my tunneling. Something she was guilty of and something tchill was guilty of. She obviously town reads herself and she town reads chill, AND she sheeed my reasons day one and gave no original reasons herself. So she loses the right to scum read me day 2 because that makes her a hypocrite.

3. Being a hypocrite. She’s guilty of doing the exact things she’s scum reading me for which makes her a hypocrite. If I’m scum for being a hypocrite, she’s scum for being a hypocrite. Btw back to the whole playstyle thing again for those who believe in that shit. I’ve been a hypocrite many times as town before.


Day 1 she said I was town for being transparent and stubborn. She treated me like town all day 1. Nothing for me has changed. Day 2 I’m still transparent and stubborn. I’ve done nothing scummy and I’m playing the same I do as town. I’d like to think I’d play the same as scum but I can’t recall if I’ve had a recent completed scum game.

That said, if you honestly feel what I’ve done is not just scummy but scum alignment indicative, by all means lynch me. But I’m telling you
I’m definitely flipping town and when I do, I urge you to lynch chick tomorrow. After that I do t really care but chick’s actions have scum motivation.

And that’s probably my last big post of the day. I’m not really in the mood to argue with anyone else as I’ve spent 2 day phases arguing. I’m spent.

[Apple Jack]

But he spent all day going "No, I refuse to vote, unless I'm needed for a hammer." In fact stating this intent, is incredibly opportunistic. It just looks like he's trying to get ahead of it for town points. It's not a good play strategy.

Why didn’t you bring this up day 1?

Instead you town read me and even defend me.

Derpy has been pretty transparent the whole game. It looks like you're looking for reasons to scum read him, Wossi. He was reassessing, and furthermore, I don't think anything derby has done this game has been done quietly.

[Apple Jack]

Wave kill only makes sense if he was right about scum. That list makes me feel better about chick and Dave.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy I liked 1729. More like that, less of the angry noise. It really demotivates people.

After my current games are over and I’m done modding the game about to go into signups. I’m going to work on trying to be more concise and to stay calm. I’m used to a site where we all cursed at each other and nobody cared. People here clearly care

[Apple Jack]

so respond to 1729 and 1730 and don't worry about the rest. those 2 are probably the best posts I will make of the game.

[Apple Jack]

That's a lot of points. What specifically do you want me to address? Are you wanting me to defend myself?

yes, i'd like you to stop making excuses for your lack of activity and respond to the entire thing.

The reason why there are a lot of points in this post, is because you made a lot of points against me. I have basically dispelled or debunked every single one of them. I have also made points to show how you are being a hypocrite yourself, yet you use me being a hypocrite against me.

so by the end of your response, I do expect some sort of a defense because I definitely feel you need one if you are going to hang on to your scum read on me.

I don't care about your internet issues, I don't care if you aren[t a typically active poster, and I certainly don't care if you don't have the energy for this. You signed up to play, so you have to play. And if you attempt to replace out now, I will consider that a scum claim.