Mini Normal 1964 - Hell Is 56k Dialup - Endgame!

[cytheflyguy]

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

[cytheflyguy]

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

if he replaces into a game, this percentages ups to about 65%

if we actually lynch him, the percentage drops to 45%

I'm sorry, but I don't follow that logic. If we lynch him, won't that make his chances (as of now) both 100% and 0%? It's either/or. Or are you saying that if we are in the process of actually lynching him, there would be a 45% chance because we are actively trying to lynch him? Why the average?

[cytheflyguy]

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

if he replaces into a game, this percentages ups to about 65%

if we actually lynch him, the percentage drops to 45%

I'm sorry, but I don't follow that logic. If we lynch him, won't that make his chances (as of now) both 100% and 0%? It's either/or. Or are you saying that if we are in the process of actually lynching him, there would be a 45% chance because we are actively trying to lynch him? Why the average?

here is what i mean

60% of the time, he is scum

65% of the time when he replaces someone, he is scum

40% of the time when he is lynched, he is scum

Hm, okay. I think I see what you mean by that last part of logic. You're saying that if he makes it to the end, he has a higher chance of being scum then if he was lynched instead. Since he seems to be the only person not here, do you mind linking me to some of his games? Or is there an easier way to view them?

[cytheflyguy]

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

if he replaces into a game, this percentages ups to about 65%

if we actually lynch him, the percentage drops to 45%

I'm sorry, but I don't follow that logic. If we lynch him, won't that make his chances (as of now) both 100% and 0%? It's either/or. Or are you saying that if we are in the process of actually lynching him, there would be a 45% chance because we are actively trying to lynch him? Why the average?

here is what i mean

60% of the time, he is scum

65% of the time when he replaces someone, he is scum

40% of the time when he is lynched, he is scum

Hm, okay. I think I see what you mean by that last part of logic. You're saying that if he makes it to the end, he has a higher chance of being scum then if he was lynched instead. Since he seems to be the only person not here, do you mind linking me to some of his games? Or is there an easier way to view them?

It is joke logic. . .

I always see transcend as scum regardless of his real role. . .

Oops, I don't always get written humor. My b.

Regardless, I am interested to see if he makes it or switches out.

[cytheflyguy]

cy dont worry about reading trans

when i blitz my chakras rly hard i have like a >90% of reading him correctly

i say today we behead the doggo monarch viva la revolucion etc etc

We should at least wait doe. He's here now so we should hear what he has to say.

[cytheflyguy]

tentative scumread on UC Voyager
If it weren't for cys first post I'd be voting there tho tbh

Aw that's all right, I'll do it for you.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Overly focused on reading someone by meta instead of sorting the players actually present.


@UCV 15: love it

Well I mean, what would you like me to do on the first page? If you look at the first thing I said, I go off the logic of someone else, not just straight up asking for meta with no context. I was trying to work with someone else to get the game rolling.

[cytheflyguy]

Katyusha: what I mean is it's like stalling. Going for the player who hasn't yet confirmed and requesting meta - especially considering that the amount that somebody rolls scum is not alignment indicative at all unless I misunderstand completely - then sitting back and waiting for this one player instead of looking into any of the others available.
I don't like it. It feels like busywork.

I agree with this.

whoops i missed this while phoneshitposting

i mean im not defending it as good play - i just think silly busy work at this stage of the game isnt AI for someone out of practice and like cy from what i can gather from his posts. maybe a different player you could argue but it doesnt seem out of place to me

plus firaga casting suspicion there is

Adding to this -- I never said this was a good strategy. I understand

now

why it wasn't the best, but again, I wanted to go off of something during the beginning to kick off the game.

[cytheflyguy]

cy be a dear and vote firaja with me?

Hmm, tempting.

VOTE: firaja

Is every single player in this game an alt

No, I'm not

[cytheflyguy]

Nope. What about you?

tentative scumread on UC Voyager
If it weren't for cys first post I'd be voting there tho tbh

Aw that's all right, I'll do it for you.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Overly focused on reading someone by meta instead of sorting the players actually present.


@UCV 15: love it

Well I mean, what would you like me to do on the first page? If you look at the first thing I said, I go off the logic of someone else, not just straight up asking for meta with no context. I was trying to work with someone else to get the game rolling.

UCV 4: "Transcend is scum 60% of the time"
You 13: "This is useful information let us dig deeper"
Despite the fact that Transcend presumably also received his role via randomisation, making this kind of useless as an endeavour. Doing kind of useless things is okay at this point in the game, I agree. But there was no way this was leading anywhere. Then waiting for content from Transcend instead of using what you already had available from other players. It doesn't feel like you were actually trying to "get the game rolling".

It's not like you were in an empty room with UCV. Nearly half the game had posted before you, and you had said not a thing about any of them.

Okay so:

A) You misquoted me. I said "If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start." Keywords: "If we're going by this logic". I thought other people would be going by this logic and decided to take a stab at it.

B) So because half of the people appeared before Transcend, I should have grasped at straws with them first? I went with a small thing that I could just look at -- not even actually scumreading him. And I addressed some of the faulty logic, it's not like I followed it blindly.

C) What type of information? Like his previous games? How do I access that -- legit question. That'd be useful information down the road.

[cytheflyguy]

Imma have to dip most of tomorrow because I have shit to take care of with school.

cy this might help

for anyone else u can do the same by clicking their username, viewing their topics, and then going thru all the games in the list

Omg thanks! I wasn't big on meta reading when I first played this game, so I never searched anyone.

PEdit:
@cy: huh okay. Give me a bit and I'll get to that, but in the meantime I'm interested - do you think I'm scum?

No. You're coming from a genuine town perspective. I don't think it's too solid of a scum read, but you've defended your point the same way each time, making it more solid imo. I'll address the other voting thing at the end of my second response.

I'm still liking it

Okay so:

A) You misquoted me. I said "If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start." Keywords: "If we're going by this logic". I thought other people would be going by this logic and decided to take a stab at it.

Yeah, my apologies, I should have put a disclaimer that it was my takeaway from the post, not a direct quote.
Can you explain what that logic was? Because from my POV it looks like you were assuming Transcend had a higher-than-random chance of rolling scum. I find that difficult to believe you accepted this premise, even more so that you would expect other people to do so, so please help me understand.

B) So because half of the people appeared before Transcend, I should have grasped at straws with them first? I went with a small thing that I could just look at -- not even actually scumreading him. And I addressed some of the faulty logic, it's not like I followed it blindly.

See above regarding why I find it difficult to understand how you followed

any

of the logic.
But no. I mean... you started a game. Players were posting things. Players with alignments. Instead of looking at their posts to work out if they were scum or not, you instead decided to inquire into the meta of a player who hadn't even posted, so you had zero way to develop a read from that at that point. I would have expected it to give you some sort of opinion on UCV, but I see no evidence of that so far.

C) What type of information? Like his previous games? How do I access that -- legit question. That'd be useful information down the road.

Yeah that was a legit question. When I'm doing background research I check wikis first (next to the PM button at the bottom left of each post) then the topic search Katyusha linked (go to profile of the player, bottom right of that). But you said you trying to get the game rolling, not that you were setting up for well down the track. Those are different things to me.


On another note: why are you voting Firaja?

A) My train of thought was not, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, then he should be prodded because he is more than likely scum in this game."

It was, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, he would probably have a higher chance of not playing because he is scum and does not want to play the same role once again, as he was the only person to not confirm." The reason I fell for the joke was because the statistics relied on behavior, especially the part about if someone replaced him. It's flimsy logic, yeah, but if you read my posts, I did not 100% agree with UC, I was just talking statistics so I could anticipate behavior.

B) I'm not going to pull the rookie card, but I will say that I felt it was easier to grasp at the first thing I saw and go from there rather than trying to read other's initial posts because I'm still a little baffled on the proper way of doing so I hope you can have a better understanding of what my logic was at least.

C) Thank you for your explanation. Also, when I said down the road, I meant for future circumstances when the situation arises for me to meta read someone. Saying "down the road" in this case can also apply to something I wish I had known but didn't. It's still useful in the future, but it also could have been useful in the past, when I was trying to get the ball rolling.

Regarding the other note of why I'm voting Firaja: While your arguments were based around

that was faulty logic and you meta read a person not in the game when you should have focused on the players at hand and you're doing a poor job of explaining yourself

, his argument is

If anyhing i'd say cytheflyguy looks a little worse from it simply because his couple of comments on it is what made it into more of a thing and started the conversation on it. But as i said before because it's early on it is probably nothing, just something I'm keeping in mind for now.

Keywords: "made it into more of a thing and started the conversation on it." I fail to see how this is a logical argument.

Right, however using something out of seemingly nothing is a little sketchy to me. Trying to take something seemingly irrelevant and potwbtially turn it into something else is what is runbing me the wrong way here as it may be a potential to cause misdirection.
Again this is all a bit of a reach as it is a bit early, but i do see your point as well of cy trying to find substance and add to the discussion.

Once again, he refuses to specify any points. At all. The difference between you and him is the fact that you use sources, you recall specific instances, and you fleshout your thoughts. Even in your first few points about the situation, you came across way more town they he did. That's why I townread you and scumread him.

Hope that helped!

[cytheflyguy]

Also I should mention I will admit that although I do understand how probability works, I have played several games with friends where I have gotten the same roll over and over, so I didn't see it too far out of the realm of possibility. Again, that was just the tip of my reason to prod transcend.

[cytheflyguy]

Reading's good for you but I'll try be concise.

@107

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about the flip to being super agreeable or the townread on me, but I particularly liked point A and the explanation of the Firaja vote.

@108
I definitely roll scum more than my fair share, but it still doesn't have any bearing on my alignment in any one game.

What do you mean by super agreeable? Counting this I only have 12 posts and 107 is the only one where I needed to thank anyone. As far as anything else is concerned, I've explained what I could to the best of my ability.

Let me reword my townread on you then: I'm townreading you for the same reason I'm scumreading Firaja. Your concerns are seemingly coming from a place of town interest.

Despite the fact that Transcend presumably also received his role via randomisation, making this kind of useless as an endeavour. Doing kind of useless things is okay at this point in the game, I agree. But there was no way this was leading anywhere. Then waiting for content from Transcend instead of using what you already had available from other players. It doesn't feel like you were actually trying to "get the game rolling".

Your argument is basically

here are the reasons why this was a bad conversation to have and why it would be in mafia's best interest to have them

. That's pretty solid and I don't see how that's an unstable reason to not townread someone.

i mean im not defending it as good play - i just think silly busy work at this stage of the game isnt AI for someone out of practice and like cy from what i can gather from his posts. maybe a different player you could argue but it doesnt seem out of place to me

Good point here though.

And here you address a counterpoint that shows you're open-minded, which is something in the town's best interest.

I'm not saying I will always townread you, I'm saying that for now, your posts seem to be town oriented.

[cytheflyguy]

Right, however using something out of seemingly nothing is a little sketchy to me. Trying to take something seemingly irrelevant and potwbtially turn it into something else is what is runbing me the wrong way here as it may be a potential to cause misdirection.
Again this is all a bit of a reach as it is a bit early, but i do see your point as well of cy trying to find substance and add to the discussion.

I'm not really making the connection of how turning the discussion from "haha let's ql trans for memes hes statistically more likely to be scum" to "how do I read trans?" is a scummy diversion of attention. town wants to be able to read the rest of the table to ultimately find scum

Btw, I'm assuming you're new? do you have prior experience on a forum if so?

Firstly, to answer your question, I played on this site around 5-6 years ago, however forgot the password to my account, and lost access to the email linked to it, and so made this one because I wanted to give this a shot again.

Back on Topic; As i said before, I see where you are coming from, and as the thread has progressed it is clear cy is trying to add content and looking back it does make sense that they were trying to find something to work with. My original viewpoint was the UCV was making a joke, and it looked like cy was trying to turn it into something more major than it needed to be, which is why I said it was becoming distractive/irrelevant.
However after seeing this post;

Well I mean, what would you like me to do on the first page? If you look at the first thing I said, I go off the logic of someone else, not just straight up asking for meta with no context. I was trying to work with someone else to get the game rolling.

I am willing to admit I may have jumped the gun a little, and I didn't actually see it that way when in the moment last night.

I am leaning towards cy and Katyusha being town at this point simply for the reason that they are pushing valid reasons for suspecting me because of my misinterpretation of the cy/UCV interaction at the beginning of the game, and while I am still a little sceptical of the exchange in general, I believe my sights may have been temporarily diverted in the wrong direction.

One last thing before I move on,

Ah, OK

I'm not really happy with the cy push in general since firaja supports it (besides me townreading cy)

I did not support the cy push, I simply stated an opinion on an event that happened, I even said it was a little early to take too much from it at that point. If I supported the push, I would have voted cy. I didn't because I still was unsure at the time.
However now, thanks to the points raised by you and cy, I am not.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: UC Voyager

and here's why;
Looking back at the original exchange that I felt a bit weird on, what I overlooked was UCV pushing a little hard on this point with posts #14 and #15, and then explaining in "detail" with post #17. Due to this, I now understand how it may have been seen as an actual point against Transcend instead of a joke, which I first believed was the intention. Again, due to this, it seems that UCV was the one actually being distracting here, as he kept pushing this point through to post #75, before discounting it as "Joke Logic" - causing a distracting exchange which he then seemed to make mean seemingly nothing. I don't understand why he let the exchange go on so long, and make it seem that he was being serious to just discount it all after the fact.

Also once discussion had started this post;

i am not an alt

Rubs me the wrong way, as it is adding nothing at all, and as discussion had started by then, there is little excuse for it in my opinion.

Moving away from UCV for a second (because I still have 2 pages of the thread to read... )

Once again, he refuses to specify any points. At all. The difference between you and him is the fact that you use sources, you recall specific instances, and you fleshout your thoughts. Even in your first few points about the situation, you came across way more town they he did. That's why I townread you and scumread him.

I didn't have a lot to flesh out at that point, as it was just an observation at that point more than anything else, I didn't say I thought you were scum because of it, so didn't feel the need to push a case through, but I think with the small amount of information I had (2 pages) I explained why I thought the way I did about the information the best I could. Please explain further if I am misinterpreting this though? But I thought I did use the example I was referring to as much as I could at that time.

Guys no novels plz

But "Novels" are us expressing our opinions, how else would you like us to catch scum?

ok i guess this is what i wanted to get at

you think this is newbscummy or just newb?

I am unsure, the reason why I said it *could* be scummy is because of the potential focus on something seemingly irrelevant (but as I explained above, I do now see this as making UCV look more Scummy that cy). The reason I said I have my eye on cy isn't because I necessarily believe he is Scum, but because if this becomes a constant thing it could lead me to believe he is. However, his recent posts have me leaning away from this view.

havo
transcend
firaja

Hi.

For what you addressed to me, my problem wasn't the fact that you were said anything bad about me, but that you were passively making a case against me with making very vague claims. That seems rather suspicious. Look at my argument against you and my reasoning for townrading Key. I'm still wary of you doe, but you do make a good point with UVC.

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

I hate this post

Last two lines are artificial

No offense, but that's like...really bad logic. If you are the only person who feels this way, maybe you should expand?

What do you mean by super agreeable?

Your other responses to me like 61 and 96 came across a lot sharper than 107.

And it's not the quality of the townread - it's very easy to townread actual town with actual reasons when you're scum, so that doesn't really give me any reassurance of your alignment. But I find I get townread that solidly by scum more often than town, so it worries me a bit.

Check my previous games. I used to be super excitable and wasn't mature enough to play. That's why I took such a long break. I wanted to play more seriously, but sometimes niceness comes out every now and again

With that, I can't control your previous interactions, but I have more reason to townread you and not scumread you.

[cytheflyguy]

Wow it's been almost a year and a half since my last game here. How's everyone doin'?

VOTE: transcend

VOTE: transcend

he is scum at least 60% of the time

If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start.

Transcend, can I get a list of previous games so I can verify this myself?

I hate this post

Last two lines are artificial

No offense, but that's like...really bad logic. If you are the only person who feels this way, maybe you should expand?

why would he be offended

Idk, I say that more out of habit than anything.

[cytheflyguy]

No Key Chain it actually is not thanks

You don't have to be aggro Keychain will remember this though.
Can you explain your schadd scumread?

keychain has a lot of padding

?

Check my previous games. I used to be super excitable and wasn't mature enough to play. That's why I took such a long break. I wanted to play more seriously, but sometimes niceness comes out every now and again

With that, I can't control your previous interactions, but I have more reason to townread you and not scumread you.

You're digging yourself a hole here but I want to see what you do outside of interacting with me. Didn't like that response to Transcend - I don't understand how finding your post artificial and scumreading you off that is illogical.

You can play serious and be nice simultaneously!

uc voyager are u excited to Hunt Some sCum!

uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh

VOTE: UC Voyager

Please post a read

But that's not my point. There is no argument -- so I can't say that his argument is illogical. I didn't mean that it was illogical, but the way he was presenting it was. It's the same with Firaja. I don't think that's a logical argument to state something with no reasoning.

Also, I'm not trying to be not nice. My wording can come out wrong. I apologize.

[cytheflyguy]

@Firaja

For what you addressed to me, my problem wasn't the fact that you were said anything bad about me, but that you were passively making a case against me with making very vague claims. That seems rather suspicious. Look at my argument against you and my reasoning for townrading Key. I'm still wary of you doe, but you do make a good point with UVC.

I don't see where I was passively making a case about you, I said the interaction was weird and stated I would have my eye on you both for if you continued in that fashion or did not. The only reason I said you were scum was I was asked who looked worse in the situation, to which I said *if anything* it would be you and explained why, bearing in mind it was at the time, and as time as gone on it is clear I jumped the gun here.
(If this sounds rude I apologise) but am I missing your point here? If so can you please help me see it so I can defend against it, because i'm not seeing it .

I don't think that's a logical argument to state something with no reasoning

But I gave reasoning as to why I found the exchange weird? And said why (at the time) I thought you looked slightly worse because of it?

(Preface: all of this has been stated before in 107, but I'm rewording this to make it more understandable)

Maybe there's a difference in opinion of what it means to make a case against someone. We're agreeing you said what you said, but I'm saying it's making a case against me because you had an opinion about something looking more town or scum (37), you stated it, and then you defended it, which is what I define an argument to be. You then defended your thought in 42. Even if you don't vote or say it in a passive way, I still see that as an argument and you defending it.

Second, and I don't mean this with any disrespect, but I do not think your argument carried any weight because you used vague terms. In 42, you use terms like, "using something out of seemingly nothing" and " take something seemingly irrelevant and [potentially] turn it into something else". There is nothing specifically stated. I assume you were saying something similar to Keychain, but it could have been worded better.

Also Transcend's posts bother me greatly. His actions seem greatly anti-town imo as he always adds something but.never expands on anything. He seems to do this in previous games, so it's not enough to change my vote.

If you can, Transcend, can you expand on why you think the way you do?

[cytheflyguy]

Been busy with some pre-Thankgiving break work but I'm back

Cy if transcends posts bother u what is your read on me

Looking back, I'm not a fan of some of your logic. Especially with:

Firaja the rest of that paragraph actually doesnt make sense
Every interaction provides information the way it is?
Uc didn't undo anything
So scumreading him by that metric is ???


that's an awful convenient read keychain
I was saying you employ logic when you're scum so reading you with -vibez- is bad

Honestly I think it's a valid reason for Firaja to think UVC is scum. Although I didn't like their original form of reasoning, I agree with their current points. There is no reason for UVC to have kept the joke going for a while. Maybe it was more of a joke to everyone else that I still don't get the humor of, but yeah, I'm not liking UVC's progression and been meaning to move my vote somewhere else.

VOTE: UC Voyager

But mini tangent aside, actually reading your posts give me the same vibes as Transend but different?? I don't know. Both of you vague post but you ask for more group opinions then he does. I firmly refuse to give a read on either of you except for null because I don't want to take a stance either way on both of you.

That being said, I want to know why you wanted a read solely on you as a transition from what I said about Transcend?

[cytheflyguy]

i hate u cy

Many people do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[cytheflyguy]

Most of Zach's recent post strike me as paranoid and defensive. I'm starting to lean towards scum with him.

I can agree with that.

Also:

Null will be purple since mod color is yellow

Zachstralkita

don't tr yet which is alarming

Dunnstral*

probtown but should prob null read to be safe

Keychain

town

Firaja

town by gut but has really bad posts

Havo

was thinking scum leaning town now

Jodaxq

scum

cytheflyguy

scum

schadd_

town

Transcend

d

o

g

g

o

wavemode

gut town

UC Voyager

unsure, prob town

Katyusha

town

Everyone Else

\_O_/

This post in particular bothered me for a while and it didn't hit me earlier today as to why. Transcend's entire game has been about making claims and then never backing it up. People don't really question it either. Looking at this list, his hardest gut town was someone who, as of this post, has posted 5 times, and as of that post, posted once. One time and that's his "gut town", and because of this endorcement, and next to no one questioning Transcend on his reads, wave has easily claimed a role that no one can varrify, and no one (as far as I know) scum reads him. He says things as if they are fact, but in reality, they are gut guess that he cannot defend but treats as facts, which is why when I asked him, he refused to clarify anything. . Like...isn't that questionable logic? Like even more questionable than my original blunder. You can't assume someone is town for lack of scummy post. You have to townread them for things that look like town motivation.

This game is so damn weird and I don't like it...

Both Zack's and Transcend's games have been weird compared to everyone else's (Scadd too, actually). Zack is on the defense and Transcend is on the offensive but both seem to be built on little to no foundation.

Well, that's my two cents before moving to phone for a week thanks to thanksgiving break.