Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[Luca Blight]

You are blind - he was L-3 when he claimed.

I also clearly expressed my regret about Yuria's CC. Just because I'm not irrationally calling for Transcend's blood doesn't mean I don't care about the situation.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant -

please explain what you disagreed with, and what about my clash with Fitz made you lose trust in me.

895 - If Transcend is the type of player I understand him to be, this kind of risk is something I could see him doing. I also don't think a town member would claim to be a role that has the chance of causing a CC which would majorly fuck things up.
963 - Your first point against fitz seems like you are twisting/interpreting his words in a way to further your own opinion against him. It just basically felt like a misrepresentation of what he was saying. This was one of the negative points about IceGuy (and in my opinion his only real one). Your last point in that post also seems to ignore that he would be willing to vote 5 other people before Deasvail and makes a remark towards his vote on Transcend. The point you quoted there was about fitz not wanting to vote Deas and you turned it into a stab at his reasons for voting Transcend.
974 - I disagree with a fair bit of this post; especially the last sentence.
Finally, overall your points against fitz have mostly been 'meh' for me.

In hindsight, that isn't as much as I initially thought it was. But since I had been in agreement with almost everything you said prior to this, and considering I probably read this post out of context, recently you've just seemed a little scummier and hence knocking my trust in you.

[Luca Blight]

I'm interested to know what about my 974 you disagree with so much as it was mainly showing Fitz up for not actually reading the thread properly.

963 - it's not always about what is said - sometimes you have to read between the lines, and the impression I got from Fitz was that he's content with lynching Transcend whenever, and I've seen nothing since to suggest this isn't the case. I don't see anything wrong with the last part of this post - Fitz was scornful of my vote for Deas because I stated he hadn't done anything overtly scummy - the fact is if you only lynch those who act really scummy then you're not going to do very well on this site, from my experience.

[mutantdevle]

I say that because I agree with a lot of points everyone is making.

But everyone is accusing each other

. Hence I can see scum in everyone’s play and therefore I’m not really trusting of anyone right now.

I also feel like people’s views on me are dropping. Perhaps because I’ve been fading away into the background and becoming less and less relevant.

I will give some reads tomorrow wen I can properly define my opinions on people.

this is implying you don't like how people are scum hunting and making reads.

Since you like forming your own implications in other people's words perhaps you should have recieved a better overall implication from the context of this post. The one sentence you have made bigger in my post of course would look like I am wanting less scum hunting, but did you read the other words and posts around it? This post was made in the context of why I am no longer so trusting of people the people I previously had. Hence "everyone" refers to those specific people rather than literally everyone in this game. Think about it, if I was referring to literally everyone then that post would basically be a lie. My post here is about how I have less trust in the people I trusted as other people were raising points against them that I see as reasonable. The post has absaloutly nothing to do with wanting or not wanting scum hunting. I think it is a stretch by you to make my look scummy that you would try to put forth the idea that my post conveys that.

what the hell. like. So you didn't show much reasoning for voting Elmo before then you give him a vote

"I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1." - post 64
I also may not have made it clear but part of the vote was also from what other people were saying at the time. I strongly encourage you to start reading more into context. Due to what others were saying, I started to see the scum in Elmo. This is shown in the very post your point is criticising here.

Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

He had the bigger wagon?!?! OPEN SCUMMING. like hell. that is super scummy

You present this point as though it was my sole reason for voting Elmo. When in fact this was my reason for voting Elmo instead of fitz. Is it not acceptable to you to settle for second best if it is more likely?


[quote="In post 1081He stops scum hunting (not that he was before), then complains about the day not ending. wow.
-trying to get the day over faster
-trying to lower the amount of scum hunting.[/quote]
You say you have read over my ISO but clearly you either missed or are choosing to ignore the part where I say several times that I come from a mafia culture where 72 hour day phases are the norm. Is it really too hard to believe that perhaps I'd be more appreciative of shorter days as it is what I am used to? In fact, during the course of the second half of day 1, I both started and finished playing another game on that forum. I'm used to having less time to do things, these 336 hour days are a huge difference for me and it should be expected that I would take a while to adjust.


[quote="In post 1081so you risk lynching a PR when he can claim and give the town a chance to get an actual scum and not a PR. Plus town PRs will often try to last as long as they can without claiming. even if the spot light is on them. Generally, you claim PR when you get down to L-1 and someone says they will hammer you.[/quote]
There was no way in hell that anyone was going to believe that Elmo was a PR. Atleast, that's how the situation seemed to me. I think most people agreed that Elmo was either a VT or scum. If you are a VT then it is a terrible idea to fake claim in open games as it is immensly selfish. Doing so could potentially out a genuine PR and cause your own mislynch as opposed to simply you being mislynched.


[quote="In post 1081so you shouldn't give him a chance to play better? how would that help town. That makes no since. that only helps scum because i have been scum in a game of replacements. it makes everything harder. it would be easier to just lynch the replacment before they could do anything different than the person before them.[/quote]
First of all *she. Second of all: how on Earth would that be easier? It's kinda bs to lynch someone before they get a chance to make even a single post in the game. I'd much rather have someone lynched before they replace out as it saves both the mod's and the replacement's time.


[quote="In post 1081naked votes????????[/quote]
What's the problem here? Oh yeah, you don't read in context. A naked vote means the voter has nothing new to add. As a result, you can infer that their vote is based on recent events that other players have brought up. I'd like to reiterate that when you look through someone's ISO and find things like this you should check out what was happening around the post. Reading exclusively someone's ISO gives you a false impression of them as you remove context from the situation.


[quote="In post 1081casually jumps on biggest wagon even though he has no reason to, plus he had not shown any signs of scum reading him, then says we should go after boring tomorrow.[/quote]
I feel like I am just repeating myself here in how devoid of context you are. I don't even get how you would have missed this one as it can be explained by my ISO alone. Just to make this clear, I am 100% against a no lynch. I'd rather lynch someone who I think is town than have the day end with no lynch at all. My only exception to this is if I consider someone as confirmed town. If you'd care to go back to the links to previous games I have played and check the final vote counts for each day then you will find that, regardless of allignment, I am always on the wagon. It is very rare that I wouldn't be on a wagon. I like to be on wagons, it's just how I play. Typically, the later I vote for them, the less confident I am that they are scum.


[quote="In post 1081I also noticed this was a lolhammer! hey Luca. remember Newbie 1826 Basketball where i was scum and i[/quote]
I am unfamiliar with the term lolhammer. Your point about how you have done something similar to my post as scum is NULL however. I am not you. You are not me. What you do and I do are 2 very different things.


Is it possible you could now go back and answer all the questions you have left unanswered or have poorly answered so far this game?

[mutantdevle]

Eww. @Mod can you fix the formatting of that post please? I just missed a ']' at the end of each thing.

[mutantdevle]

I'm interested to know what about my 974 you disagree with so much as it was mainly showing Fitz up for not actually reading the thread properly.

Your points about him not paying attention / not reading I feel would have been better as points about him not responding in the way you would like him to. I think his posts do reflect he has been paying attention it's just he didn't reply in too valid a way of the main points you were after.

[ProHawk]

Well... I guess I am blind.

[ProHawk]

I've read all of D1, none of D2 save the posts since I replaced in. And by read, I may have speed read a few posts.

Mutant is probably the most town in my list due to spec that doesn't seem like its coming from the mindset of scum.
Boring's replace in was extremely town in my estimation and she goes into my town pile. Self-vote was bad though...
Fish's posts seem to have a town feel to me, haven't really evaluated in depth but I am comfortable placing him in the town pile

Ecto, and DV I need to spend more time looking at, they sit somewhere in the middle for me. Voyager... I'm not real sure about either, lack of time spent reading his posts, but didn't get scum-vibes from sheep.

I just got done playing with Scum-Luca and have no experience with his town game, but he is very verbose and active as scum - asks a lot of questions early on, gets hung up on minute details. I can see a bit of that here in this game too. I would need more evaluation here though. I can't figure out why he dropped the pressure on Fitz.

I can't get over the opening play by HavingFitz in asking for mod-confirmation of a claim and then voting said person when the claim was clarified as being false. His post just sounded like he knew that Trans was lying and he would have absolutely known that as scum. Call it conf-bias but his posts since then haven't swayed my view. - Scum

For Kelbris... I'd have to go back and search for the post but there was one during my read that made me think... scum. We'll call this gut until I get some more digging time.

Transcendence.... Villiage Idiot. Being that he claimed at L-3 and not at L-1 like I had thought for some reason... he may be town but still falls into a dont-let-live to endgame category.

VOTE: HavingFitz

[Fishythefish]

Right now my list of 'Most likely to flip scum' is as follows: (in no particular order)

UCV
Kelbris
Fitz
Pr0Hawk
Deas

This is close to my list; I'd sub in boring for fitz, but otherwise LGTM.

@UC:

what do you now think of Deas? You seemed very sure he was scum; has that changed?

@ProHawk:

your post doesn't really give any alignment reads on any people who are actually being voted for (Transcend, DV, UC). Is there any more you can say on them (maybe by reading them more specifically)?

[UC Voyager]

Right now my list of 'Most likely to flip scum' is as follows: (in no particular order)

UCV
Kelbris
Fitz
Pr0Hawk
Deas

This is close to my list; I'd sub in boring for fitz, but otherwise LGTM.

@UC:

what do you now think of Deas? You seemed very sure he was scum; has that changed?

@ProHawk:

your post doesn't really give any alignment reads on any people who are actually being voted for (Transcend, DV, UC). Is there any more you can say on them (maybe by reading them more specifically)?

I definitely think that DV could be scum with Mutant. My vote is residing there. I would be willing to change it to mutant if anyone else wants to look into that slot.

[mutantdevle]

I feel like UC is just ignoring me except when he wants to criticise me...

[UC Voyager]

I feel like UC is just ignoring me except when he wants to criticise me...

what fucking question?????I just looked through your posts, and you didn't ask me SHIT

[ProHawk]

@ProHawk: your post doesn't really give any alignment reads on any people who are actually being voted for (Transcend, DV, UC). Is there any more you can say on them (maybe by reading them more specifically)?

I think Transcend would be a strategic lynch. I'm probably around the 35% ish mark on him flipping scum.... not super high unfortunately.

Yes, let me go tread through posts on those two. Have you talked about Fitz in your evaluations?

[mutantdevle]

I feel like UC is just ignoring me except when he wants to criticise me...

what fucking question?????I just looked through your posts, and you didn't ask me SHIT

Ffs you really aren’t good at reading things. I don’t mean you’re ignoring my questions I mean you seem to be ignoring my posts in general. You seem oblivious to the points that I and a few others are raising against you. The unanswered questions I am referring to have been asked primarily by other players but I’d also like to see those questions answered. If you can’t be bothered to reread to find those questions then I will make a list of them tomorrow.

It’s time you stopped ignoring the wagon that’s forming against you and start explaining your actions and your ignorance.

[UC Voyager]

I feel like UC is just ignoring me except when he wants to criticise me...

what fucking question?????I just looked through your posts, and you didn't ask me SHIT

Ffs you really aren’t good at reading things. I don’t mean you’re ignoring my questions I mean you seem to be ignoring my posts in general. You seem oblivious to the points that I and a few others are raising against you. The unanswered questions I am referring to have been asked primarily by other players but I’d also like to see those questions answered. If you can’t be bothered to reread to find those questions then I will make a list of them tomorrow.

It’s time you stopped ignoring the wagon that’s forming against you and start explaining your actions and your ignorance.

ID be happy to address those points, if they EXISTED!

[UC Voyager]

I feel like UC is just ignoring me except when he wants to criticise me...

what fucking question?????I just looked through your posts, and you didn't ask me SHIT

Ffs you really aren’t good at reading things. I don’t mean you’re ignoring my questions I mean you seem to be ignoring my posts in general. You seem oblivious to the points that I and a few others are raising against you. The unanswered questions I am referring to have been asked primarily by other players but I’d also like to see those questions answered. If you can’t be bothered to reread to find those questions then I will make a list of them tomorrow.

It’s time you stopped ignoring the wagon that’s forming against you and start explaining your actions and your ignorance.

ID be happy to address those points, if they EXISTED!

i would be happy to answer questions, if you ASKED THEM

[Luca Blight]

UCV, you didn't answer this one:

So why the switch from Deas? Are you no longer scumreading Deas or do you just think Mutant is more likely to be scum?

Where do you stand on Transcend right now?

im not sure what to think of transcend. He is super scummy, but that isn't unusual for him

You said he was 'obvscum' not long ago - what changed?

[UC Voyager]

So why the switch from Deas? Are you no longer scumreading Deas or do you just think Mutant is more likely to be scum?

Where do you stand on Transcend right now?

im not sure what to think of transcend. He is super scummy, but that isn't unusual for him

You said he was 'obvscum' not long ago - what changed?

he is still really scummy, but i just iso him. i didn't consider the gap between the posts which changes things. i still think he is scum

[UC Voyager]

So why the switch from Deas? Are you no longer scumreading Deas or do you just think Mutant is more likely to be scum?

Where do you stand on Transcend right now?

im not sure what to think of transcend. He is super scummy, but that isn't unusual for him

You said he was 'obvscum' not long ago - what changed?

he is still really scummy, but i just iso him. i didn't consider the gap between the posts which changes things. i still think he is scum

oh. i was thinking of DV. : p


I think transcend could be scum, but his "trying to attract the NK" made since!

[Luca Blight]

I'm interested to know what about my 974 you disagree with so much as it was mainly showing Fitz up for not actually reading the thread properly.

Your points about him not paying attention / not reading I feel would have been better as points about him not responding in the way you would like him to. I think his posts do reflect he has been paying attention it's just he didn't reply in too valid a way of the main points you were after.

This is very vague and gives the impression you didn't read the post too closely yourself.

Parts such as:

"

And I do not recall seeing anything in your post this day maligning DV for his sheep vote other than it being pointless and the timing of it...or anything wrt boring.

"

and

"

How did your level of scumhunting work out for you D1? Are you tr'ing boring now? If so...why? If not...why hold Deavail's D1 boring voting (in conjunction w/ you) against him? Are they partners?

"

Clearly displayed he wasn't reading properly - the Boring thing in particular I had actually answered him already earlier in the day.

[Ectomancer]

I'm interested to know what about my 974 you disagree with so much as it was mainly showing Fitz up for not actually reading the thread properly.

Your points about him not paying attention / not reading I feel would have been better as points about him not responding in the way you would like him to. I think his posts do reflect he has been paying attention it's just he didn't reply in too valid a way of the main points you were after.

This is very vague and gives the impression you didn't read the post too closely yourself.

Parts such as:

"

And I do not recall seeing anything in your post this day maligning DV for his sheep vote other than it being pointless and the timing of it...or anything wrt boring.

"

and

"

How did your level of scumhunting work out for you D1? Are you tr'ing boring now? If so...why? If not...why hold Deavail's D1 boring voting (in conjunction w/ you) against him? Are they partners?

"

Clearly displayed he wasn't reading properly - the Boring thing in particular I had actually answered him already earlier in the day.

Highlighting this argument against Fitz, e.g. "Scum is more likely to phone it in". We get lazy town too but it has a certain flavor.

[havingfitz]

I can't get over the opening play by HavingFitz in asking for mod-confirmation of a claim and then voting said person when the claim was clarified as being false. His post just sounded like he knew that Trans was lying and he would have absolutely known that as scum. Call it conf-bias but his posts since then haven't swayed my view. - Scum

The nerve of me voting someone who had lied about their role...and then voting them again later when they did it again with more damaging results.
How is asking the mod to confirm an IC claim scummy? That's a feature of the IC role...it's mod confirmable. I would do the same with any other role that came with such a guarantee. So you come up with a shit reason to suspect me and use that as a scum tell against me all the while when it sounds like you have the same view towards Transcend's actions...

Question....how would I know Transcend was lying? Even if I were scum, which I am not, I would not know who the IC was. And unless you think scum passed on having the most useless PR of the 5 in the game...there is an IC out there somewhere. So how would I as scum "have absolutely known that?" Unless you are suggesting I am scum that knew there wasn't an IC....which is laughable imo to suggest.

Transcendence.... Villiage Idiot. Being that he claimed at L-3 and not at L-1 like I had thought for some reason... he may be town but still falls into a dont-let-live to endgame category.

So I am voting him at the moment (though probably not for long), and that is also something you would like to see transpire before too long as well (eliminating Transcend), yet despite this similar viewpoint I'm a better recipient of your vote because I caused him to out his fakeclaim?

Good stuff.

[boring]

I don't think a high drop-out rate is a scumtell; if anything the opposite. Do you really think scum would ever tell a slot like that to stall and go down easy?? They'd be crying out for ProHawk to actually do something; a contentless slot is easily salvageable.

I guess we've had different experiences on scum teams.

[boring]

This whole '

he can't make it to endgame

' thing just feels like an easy cop-out that scum would use for pressing an easy lynch.

Good point.

[boring]

@Boring
@Mutant
@Transcend

How do you feel about switching to UCV?

I'm not thrilled about it. I liked Sheep. I'm "meh" on UCV. He's thrown a bit of effort around today, but I guess anyone can do that. If nothing improves and we don't have a consensus on someone better by EOD, I'll probably go along.

But what about Deas? Has your feeling about him changed?

I'm leaning toward a Deas, ProHawk, Fitz, kelbris scum pool. Though, I haven't read Fitz's most recent wall yet, and I've been hoping for some definitive sign of town from him, so his status might change.