Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[Sephiroth]

What the fuck drugs are you on, moron?

The kind that made me read 611 as you. I apologize. This just makes the whole Serg + Mulch thing even weirder to me.

[skitter30]

What part of starting out scumreading then flipping to townreading with no resistance comes across as hardbussing? Seems like he came in 'bussing' and then took the first out.

Fair enough. I'll think about this again.

Because for scum!mulch to have come into the game deciding to 'bus' tacos and take the first out, he'd have to have known that someone would have provided that out. We all know he hasn't read the game, so he wouldn't have known there was some resistance to a tacos lynch already. He certainly would not have expected it from me. If anything, his entrance on tacos reads to me like he came in blind and thought that was the path to least resistance for a lynch.

[Sephiroth]

Because for scum!mulch to have come into the game deciding to 'bus' tacos and take the first out, he'd have to have known that someone would have provided that out. We all know he hasn't read the game, so he wouldn't have known there was some resistance to a tacos lynch already. He certainly would not have expected it from me. If anything, his entrance on tacos reads to me like he came in blind and thought that was the path to least resistance for a lynch.

You may be right, and as I mentioned earlier I don't feel strongly that they are partners. What I am saying is that I don't think a mulch scum flip makes serg more likely to be town.

[Chip Butty]

What the fuck drugs are you on, moron?

The kind that made me read 611 as you. I apologize. This just makes the whole Serg + Mulch thing even weirder to me.

You conflated Taco and me? Now, that really IS insulting lol.

Either or both could be trolling the game. Either or both could be scum. Neither can be allowed to make it to lylo/mylo.

[Mulch]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

[Chip Butty]

That's why i voted you, duh. Either you're lying or you are bizarrely optimistic about the worth of meta based on such thin data, and i don't think you're bad enough for the later, esp now 1950 has concluded. Which reminds me, i should go reread you in that game.

You calling me bad is mildly amusing but I'll let that go. I think you're town.

My Wossi read is genuine and it's based on more than just meta, as I've already explained repeatedly - so then what is my scum motivation for making up meta rather than just using in-game reasons (or, hell, no reasons. I would just say it was gut) to townread him?

Furthermore, Wossi himself could tell you if it were a lie, and I'd be running a risk coming into this game with that if it were B.S.

And Mulch also referenced the same meta but also cannot talk about it:

I'm 15-1 in normal scum games

So explain where your meta on me comes from

I feel as if this would be breaking site rules

Now you're looking at a 3-person conspiracy if my meta is made up. Maybe simpler explanation is, I was just plain telling the truth?

I didn't say you're bad, i said i didn't think you would be bad enough to make so much out of a thin meta read. But even if i did call you bad, i don't see how that would be amusing, given that in our only other game i copped Boon and got him lynched, pointed out LUV as scum but got nked before i could do anything about it, and even pointed out a sus associaruon from Boon to you. Only foot i put wrong was to help lynch UnaH who is lynchbait and admits it, and Porkens, who wasn't playing anything like town.Porkens in mn 1946.

[Chip Butty]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

Reading through the wossi ISO. LAL isn't a terrible policy, as someone has pointed out. If wossi has shown that policy in other games it would make him look better. Wossi, can you point to other games as town where you've been LAL?

[Chip Butty]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

Do most games have millers? I don't think so.... it seems like it be pretty decent odds actually to fake claim miller and not get counter claimed.

Not an unreasonable view.

[Chip Butty]

I dropped the gambit in my second post. I don't understand how you can fail to see my motivation after that.

please explain how claiming scum is a gambit.

to anyone asking why I'm voting flubber and not skitter: there's power in wagons and there's more then one scum.

Actually, looking at this I'm getting suspicious of flubber again. I need to check if he explained this "gambit". I mean, as an RVS joke I don't think flubber's scum claim is too terrible (albeit onv votebait in early game), but gambit I'm a bit uneasy about.

Wossi's other problem early game is with skitter. He sees skitter as overreacting to his observation that she started a wagon. I think probably overreaction on both sides, until further notice...

[Chip Butty]

Now WickedJr, who said absolutely nothing to or about Wossi in the very early game, then was suddenly Mr. "hey i think this Wossi guy is horrible and I believe these other four people who coincidentally are already voting him are astute mafia players whom I agree with wholeheartedly. Let me draw up some reasons Wossi is a scumlord and slap my vote there too" is the worst among them in my view. (aka Mr. I'm going to do nothing for a long time then vote Wossi 90 minutes after Nexus posts a VC showing him to be at L-3. Was the vote based on Wossi's play? Or opportunism?)

I said 'absolutely nothing to or about Wossi in the very early game' because I simply wasn't around. I disappeared for a whopping 22 hours and everything from Wossi that bothered me happened during that 22 hours. And you say that my vote is opportunistic, but you haven't made any effort to understand/ask about my reasons for voting Wossi. You're just making ridiculous statements about me. Let me know when you want to start listening to what I have to say.


Also: I disagree with the people who are saying that Wossi gave reasons for his skitter scum read. There's a fine line between ambiguous interactions with skitter and explicitly stating reasons for scum reading her. The only comments that actually give insight into what he's thinking and why are the "I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum" and his Flubber/skitter theory.

this was on PAGE TWO! I don't understand how people seriously thought I was making a serious accusation on page two. No one catches scum on page two.

Talking about his skitter push here, but seems inconsistent with the seriousness of his early flubber push.

[Chip Butty]

314 seems fine.
[post=Has expressed clear views on several players. Views on flubber, serg, TIAM o broadly agree with. Skitter seems towny but she is good at that, certainly not locktown.]Has expressed clear views on several players. Views on flubber, serg, TIAM o broadly agree with. Skitter seems towny but she is good at that, certainly not locktown.[/post]
319 points out problems with implosion read, which wasn't as godawful as implosion's reads of me and Mulch. FoS at implosion.
321 points out tinfoil nature of his speculation.
324 points at wicked's vote at 108, which does actually look pretty bad.

Up to this point, I'm just not feeling the wossi wagon. More later.

[Chip Butty]

314 seems fine.
315 Has expressed clear views on several players. Views on flubber, serg, TIAM o broadly agree with. Skitter seems towny but she is good at that, certainly not locktown.]Has expressed clear views on several players. Views on flubber, serg, TIAM o broadly agree with. Skitter seems towny but she is good at that, certainly not locktown.
319 points out problems with implosion read, which wasn't as godawful as implosion's reads of me and Mulch. FoS at implosion.
321 points out tinfoil nature of his speculation.
324 points at wicked's vote at 108, which does actually look pretty bad.

Up to this point, I'm just not feeling the wossi wagon. More later.

[wavemode]

To be fair I don't necessarily think Mulch and Serg are partners but I'm about 75% sure mulch is scum and Serg is literally just trolling. But I don't think its fair to completely dismiss the possibility given how easily Mulch abandoned his push on Serg...

Seph how does this read to you:

VOTE: Chipbutty

Chip are you avoiding my question

I don't like how this is posted after Mulch and I voted for Chip.

The timing feels off to me. It feels forced. It's like you see us voting for him then you decided to say that.

Because to me it looks a lot like scum who knows that Chip is town and is trying to show reluctance to the wagon. Why would town serg consider me pressuring chip at that point to be a bad thing?

[Sephiroth]

Because to me it looks a lot like scum who knows that Chip is town and is trying to show reluctance to the wagon. Why would town serg consider me pressuring chip at that point to be a bad thing?

Thats one interpretation but I also see how Serg can be pro Chip wagon/more chip pressure while still questioning those that jump on board.

[implosion]

@skitter:

What is your opinion on Chip right now, in the absence of your Mulch read? You mentioned disliking some of his posting earlier but also disliking my vote on him, and the only reason I can see for this is you explicitly thinking any wagon Mulch has touched is poison despite you also acknowledging that preflip associatives ought to be avoided.

Do you have a specific reason to think that Mulch is highly unlikely to have bussed at all, or do you just think that any given person he's pushed is less likely to be scum by virtue of busses being more generally less likely than pushes from scum on town?

re: Mulch meta. I sort of see what you're getting at but I'm not convinced that those differences are alignment-indicative, especially when Mulch explicitly said he's being lower effort this game and that game (at least the first link, didn't look at the second) does not look low-effort. His reads here were changing with the wind for a bit but they seem to have settled at this point and I don't think that having a period where they were in flux is particularly scummy even if he doesn't usually have that kind of thing as town unless he does specifically exhibit that behavior a lot as scum.

Seph's points in 606 are fair though. He's done a lot of things that are very convenient to do as scum.

[implosion]

319 points out problems with implosion read, which wasn't as godawful as implosion's reads of me and Mulch. FoS at implosion.

I'd love some elaboration on why exactly you find those reads godawful. Particularly the Mulch read given that obviously you're going to call me scumreading you a bad read. Your only stated reason for calling Mulch scum unless I've missed something was a meta read on his alignment being related to his aggression, which seems like a rather thin case to be calling my read, which is uncertain, "godawful".

[skitter30]

@skitter:

Chip's been somewhere between nulltown and townlean for a while now, since before Mulch came in. Specifically, since 306 because I liked his read of wave. Around then, I realized that I think wave is scummy irregardless of wossi's alignment, specifically because of the townread he can't explain. I'm getting major vibes from another game I played where I got kinda tunneled on someone who was town and scum kept on insisting the dude was town because of meta and that I should give it up but he literally could never explain *why* he was town based on meta or anything in game, and wave's behavior here is reminding me *a lot* of scum in that game.

You mentioned disliking some of his posting earlier but also disliking my vote on him, and the only reason I can see for this is you explicitly thinking any wagon Mulch has touched is poison despite you also acknowledging that preflip associatives ought to be avoided.

Yeah this is why I don't like your vote. You weren't here when Mulch was doing his thing, but he literally felt like he was just throwing out names until he could find one I wouldn't put up too much of a fight about. He hasn't been able to *explain* any of his pushes, and they all feel super artificial and just pushes for the sake of ease and convenience. Like, look at the timestamps - he's clearing people based on meta and there was no way he had time to look at their posts in the time he changed his reads. I won't get on any of Serg/Flubber/Chip because of that.

And yeah pre-flips ought to be avoided. Joining awful wagons on people you don't scumread ought to be avoided too.

His reads here were changing with the wind for a bit but they seem to have settled at this point and I don't think that having a period where they were in flux is particularly scummy even if he doesn't usually have that kind of thing as town unless he does specifically exhibit that behavior a lot as scum.

I don't believe there's anything natural in his read progression irregardless of how much effort he's planning on putting in the game. His reads are based . . . . on what exactly? He hasn't read the game. Even if his reads are based on meta I don't believe they're credible if he hasn't actually seen anything in this game to compare past games to. I don't see how pulling random names out of thin air like this could possibly be described as town motivated. Like I've felt like when he's town I could at least follow his thought process.

[Wossi]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

Reading through the wossi ISO. LAL isn't a terrible policy, as someone has pointed out. If wossi has shown that policy in other games it would make him look better. Wossi, can you point to other games as town where you've been LAL?

Nyet, because I have one other game and its ongoing.
Which is why its so weird that Mulch says his meta from me comes from somewhere other then that specific. If he says explaining further is against site rules, I'm not going to push it too much further. That said, it is odd that he could specify his meta didnt come from wavemodes game, but now can no longer discuss. It's a very convenient way to end discussion and avoid repercussions from an untrue statement.

[wavemode]

but he literally could never explain *why* he was town based on meta or anything in game

This is the second time in the same game you are taking someone who's explained plenty, but you simply disagree with the explanations, and then turn around and say they have no explanation

You either need a more open mind or better precision of language. Probably both

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not scum reading wossi any more. Literally everyone trying to push him can only point to his early game play. That's suspicious.

[Wossi]

but he literally could never explain *why* he was town based on meta or anything in game

This is the second time in the same game you are taking someone who's explained plenty, but you simply disagree with the explanations, and then turn around and say they have no explanation

You either need a more open mind or better precision of language. Probably both

I'm pretty sure this quote is about someone from a different game that played with Skitter in the past? Why did you snip it out of context?

[wavemode]

Even in context, she's saying I'm doing the same thing when I'm clearly and demonstrably not

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

[Lalendra]

@Seph/Mulch - If you get me lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to look at next, and why?

[Wossi]

Even in context, she's saying I'm doing the same thing when I'm clearly and demonstrably not

Yes, that's clear from the original post, which is why I don't understand why you put in the effort to clip it in a way that makes her statement look stronger and more incriminating. It's needlessly manipulative