Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[Lalendra]

Maybe because there's not really any town reason to claim scum?

Yeah, I really don't like this "joke". There's no town reason for it, there's no scum reason for it either. It feels icky to me but I don't want to put him at L-1 over it, not until I see more from him.

You know fake claiming miller is a thing right?

Yeah I don't like this either, based on the last game I played with Serg (where scum hard-claimed miller D1 and it was part of the reason they were able to coast to a perfect scum win). Definitely feeling the Flub/Serg partners so far.

Hey guys, for the sake of town's best interest, I just want to he upfront about the fact that my favorite color is red

Are you actively lynchbaiting orrrr...?

Tbh I'm more concerned about Serg's miller claim, cuz we just played a game together where a miller hardclaimed like in their first post and got major towncred from it and proceeded to coast through the game. (He was a legit miller though).

Oh so there were TWO games where this happened? But in one he was actually a miller. Hmm. That makes this a little harder to parse. Still think there may be a non-zero number of scum in Serg/Flub.

[Lalendra]

I really hope Sephiroth isn't scum because I love the synchronicity of the avatar, location and signature. And because I just generally love Sephiroth. I want to FoS you for unnecessary AtE.

[Lalendra]

Hey guys, for the sake of town's best interest, I just want to he upfront about the fact that my favorite color is red

Are you actively lynchbaiting orrrr...?

Lalendra

My point to tiam is that town withold a lot of information from a game due to it being irrelevant to finding alignments.

I'm not sure I see the connection here. What are you withholding? If anything, you're oversharing. And yes, obviously town don't spam the thread with their favorite foods or whatever, because pizza is NAI. But you've made two comments which just sound like you're aching to be lynched and though I hate the "too scummy to be scum" angle most of the time, I'm really struggling to see where your motivation lies.

[Lalendra]

I'm not sure I see the connection here. What are you withholding? If anything, you're oversharing. And yes, obviously town don't spam the thread with their favorite foods or whatever, because pizza is NAI. But you've made two comments which just sound like you're aching to be lynched and though I hate the "too scummy to be scum" angle most of the time, I'm really struggling to see where your motivation lies.

TIAM voted Flubber for 'Not liking that there are things you might not be upfront about', so that is why Flubber posted that in response. Could you also expand on why you think Flubber is to scummy to be scum?

Saying "I'm not town" and "my favorite color is red" is, in my opinion, too scummy to be scum. I think that's fairly self-explanatory but happy to discuss further.

VOTE: Lalendra

Was going to ask about this but the vote changed so nvm.

It's not reaching at all. He says "he's being upfront now" which implies there are things he's hiding. That's what scum do more than town.

That is definitely reaching.

[Lalendra]

Sorry for low activity, I've been busy this week and haven't been able to read/post as much as I'd like.

Re: the Flub wagon - I need to take a closer look at the votes there because I don't think Flub is scum, and I want to analyze the votes on him. I plan on doing this later today.

Re: the Wossi wagon - I don't like that Wossi has checked in since the wagon really built on him (190) and still hasn't felt the need to claim. If he's town I think he needs to do that, and RL can't be the issue here because it takes less time to claim than it did to write up that post. I disagree with Skitter's assessment that Chip was looking for a way to join the Wossi wagon; it seems as though pointing out that Wossi's wagon is the fashionable one is not something scum would want to call attention to. They would manufacture reasons to vote, not abstain from voting while also pointing out that the wagon is fashionable.

I'm leaning town on Sephiroth and Serg. Sephiroth because he seems like he's legitimately trying to parse the game, and even though I don't agree with all of his points he is trying. Serg because I don't think scum would attract so much attention to themselves D1. Like you wouldn't want to lurk, but you also don't want to hard-claim miller or naked vote L-1. It's also similar to his play in a game I just finished with him where he actually was trying even less, pinged my scumdar hard, and ended up flipping town.

Really not liking Flub's last post, it's really aggressive on the one hand while also admitting to not really giving a shit about the game on the other. If you're town imma need you to do better than that.

VOTE: Wossi

That's L-1. Claim plz.

[Lalendra]

I don't see the point in claiming right now since his not at risk of getting lynched. Do not claim please.
I would also think that you would ' take a closer look at the votes' before putting someone at L-1 especially considering this is your first vote. It's also funny that you say you haven't been able to read/post as much as you like but then you say that can't be happening to Wossi.

VOTE: Lalendra

1. What do you mean when you say that he's not in danger of being lynched, when he is at L-1?
2. I said I would take a closer look at the votes on Flub's wagon, not on Wossi's. My point was that Wossi made the time to log in and post about something, but not to try and refute the wagon or claim. I just haven't logged in and read or posted ANYTHING, which is different. Again, active lurking vs. just not being present.

Throwing suspicion on me and then voting for my counterwagon also doesn't make much sense.

I don't think I threw suspicion on you, in fact I think I was defending you when others were suspecting you because of what you posted, but that's fine.

[Lalendra]

No, I referred to the post without reading it. [/sarcasm]

Yes, I read the post. When he says "don't lynch me until Friday," that's a pretty clear sign that he is reading the thread and chose not to respond to his accusers yet. Claiming seems prudent in that situation.

[Lalendra]

Again, I scumread him for being too busy to post when he knew that he was being wagoned and somehow had the time to come in and post something that was not in any way helpful in terms of his own defense. Not posting =/= not posting anything worthwhile informationally.

[Lalendra]

Like if someone comes in and just says "prodge, catching up" or doesn't post at all, that's one thing. But to come in, acknowledge that there is a wagon forming on you, and not say anything in your own defense - but write up a post which includes other game info - just struck me as weird. I'm finding it odd that you are tunneling on this so hard.

[Lalendra]

I don't think I threw suspicion on you, in fact I think I was defending you when others were suspecting you because of what you posted, but that's fine.

Blatant lie.

Really not liking Flub's last post, it's really aggressive on the one hand while also admitting to not really giving a shit about the game on the other. If you're town imma need you to do better than that.

That was not casting suspicion on you, it was saying "I think you're town and I don't like town!Flub not paying attention to the game, please do better." I still think you're town.

Like if someone comes in and just says "prodge, catching up" or doesn't post at all, that's one thing. But to come in, acknowledge that there is a wagon forming on you, and not say anything in your own defense - but write up a post which includes other game info - just struck me as weird. I'm finding it odd that you are tunneling on this so hard.

He did make a defense just not a good one, he said it was a reaction test. I'm struggling to see the distinction between Not posting =/= not posting anything worthwhile informational. I would agree with you if he was doing it often but in a one off case where he did try to give some information so it makes just as much sense that his too busy and only had enough time for that one post.
I still don't understand your logic in putting Wossi to L-1 which could lead to a lynch while you still wanted to analyze Flubbers wagon which was the main problem I had with your post.

It is possible to think that Wossi is scum prior to analyzing the votes on another wagon. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand. In my mind they are two separate issues.

I'm more interested in why you're having a problem with 190 and not 117, when he was also at L-2, and was engaging with the thread, but didn't feel the need to post any sort of reasonable defense or rebuttal. In 190, he said he was busy irl, which is why he wasn't posting. In 117, he was similarly in a place where a lot of people were open to wagoning him, was active in the thead, but deliberately ignored most of the points raised against him.

You're right, I did take 117 into account but I didn't explicitly mention it when stating my reasons. It was more like 190 kind of pushed the needle further into the red and that solidified my read.

EBWOP: That is a quote from a thread where I posted what I'm supposed to post here.

Here's another post with the same content.

Oh my god, Flubb is town
wavemode is probably town
sephiroth is probably town
skitter is probably town
2inaMil could be town
iDanyBoy could also be town
haven't made up my mind yet about wossi
Serg is still the annoying fucktwat back in Newbie 1804
implosion could be scum
chip butty could also be scum
Wicked is probably scum

gut reads based on ISO readings i just want to be back on the game

VOTE: Wicked

Just ignore me, I see how it is.

Also can you explain why you are town reading Flubber? It doesn't make sense considering the rest of your comments about him.

I think I made my reasons clear. My thought process was as follows: "I don't like that joke he just made. Oh, ew, I don't like this one either. But why would that come from scum? It's too scummy to be from scum. And I don't see what he would stand to gain from it if he was scum. He's got to be town, it's the only thing that makes sense."

[Lalendra]

Dany - "Sergtacos claimed miller, a miller claim by itself is not a reason to suspect someone or is it enough to clear someone but it also doesn't require us to put our focus on it." It sounds as if you're basically saying that the Miller claim isn't worth discussing. It's not a reason to suspect, but it's not a reason to clear, and we don't need to focus on it. Why do you think the claim was made? What motivation can you see for it that warrants easy dismissal?

[Lalendra]

Ah, 75% sure that sergetacos is scum. Sorry bud that I replaced.

K, why?

Through meta. I have a scumtell on him. Basically, he acts more jokes, never gives reasons, and throws his vote around too much as Town. This game he's giving reasons and vote parking. Probably scum

This is good info, because the last game I played with him where he was town he didn't take anything seriously and was cluttering up the thread with garbage. Interesting.

[Lalendra]

Why do I feel like you're scum here?

You just said you'd sheep wave?

It's lolmeta when it can't be talked about and no one can back up the meta read with anything in this game.

You're discrediting my read when you clearly haven't read the context and don't know what you're talking about.

I disagree about lolmeta, it could be completely valid and he just can't talk about it. I am on the fence though about how he can be so confident in his reads while also admitting he hasn't read the game lol

[Lalendra]

I don't think this is your towngame. You actually have your own opinions and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. I just got you to leave Flub and Serg with like no effort, and I don't know why you're being strangely stubborn about wossi. .

Wait, trying to appease people and not having your own opinions is towny in your book??

[Lalendra]

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

[Lalendra]

I don't think this is your towngame. You actually have your own opinions and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. I just got you to leave Flub and Serg with like no effort, and I don't know why you're being strangely stubborn about wossi. .

Wait, trying to appease people and not having your own opinions is towny in your book??

I realized afterwards that this was phrased poorly. It should read:

I don't think this is your towngame. When you're town, you actually have your own opinion and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. In contrast, here, I just got you to leave Flubber and Serg with like no effort ...

Okay that makes more sense.

[Lalendra]

I think as scum he is *very* capable of going after harder targets. He's capable of doing that as town too. I don't know why he's going after the easy pushes here. This doesn't exactly match his scum game, but this is sooooo far off from how he plays town that I'm having a really hard time seeing town!Mulch here.

He did say right off the bat that it was going to be low-effort from him, so I would think that going after "easy pushes" could potentially correlate with that. But without using meta (I try not to because it can be so easily manipulated, especially when people start pointing out someone's meta, and also because my posting/playing style pretty much always has me pegged as scum when I never am), the way he was trying to parse the game at first, the honesty about not having fully caught up, the indecision about his reads, etc. really does give me a very town vibe.
P-edit: It didn't seem mysterious to me, he did explain why his read changed.

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

[Lalendra]

@Seph/Mulch - If you get me lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to look at next, and why?

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

[Lalendra]

LOL if only I was scum as often as people think I am.

[Lalendra]

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

[Lalendra]

My scum reads are Mulch and you, followed by serg.

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

I think as scum he is *very* capable of going after harder targets. He's capable of doing that as town too. I don't know why he's going after the easy pushes here. This doesn't exactly match his scum game, but this is sooooo far off from how he plays town that I'm having a really hard time seeing town!Mulch here.

He did say right off the bat that it was going to be low-effort from him, so I would think that going after "easy pushes" could potentially correlate with that. But without using meta (I try not to because it can be so easily manipulated, especially when people start pointing out someone's meta, and also because my posting/playing style pretty much always has me pegged as scum when I never am), the way he was trying to parse the game at first, the honesty about not having fully caught up, the indecision about his reads, etc. really does give me a very town vibe.
P-edit: It didn't seem mysterious to me, he did explain why his read changed.

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

[Lalendra]

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Care to explain? Surely you don't read Mulch town based on your logic in 580 alone....

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

I don't believe that he is town based on the logic put forth in a post where I literally declared him locktown? Your meter is slipping from green to red for me...

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I always love when someone declares themselves locktown.

Well, for me the two of them are locktown, and I know my own alignment, so yeah. Valid statement.

[Lalendra]

Not to mention that it would be fairly obvious bussing if BOTH of my scumbuddies were on my wagon. That, combined with the fact that I am so confident that they are town DESPITE the fact that they are voting me, should be all the evidence you need. I retract my earlier reads list; you are just manufacturing scumtells at this point, not to mention the blatant misrep re: my 580.

VOTE: Sephiroth

[Lalendra]

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

Why does me scumreading the three of you necessitate that all three of you are scum together? I'm not going to delude myself into thinking everyone I have a scum read on D1 = the scum team. That would be silly. It just means I independently find each of you to be the scummiest in the game. I stated as much in my previous post to you:

I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2.

In what world does you thinking that the three of us are scum not equate to the three of us being scum together?? If there are three scum in a game, and you have three scumreads, how does that NOT necessitate that those three individuals are scum together??

[Lalendra]

@Seph/Mulch - If you get me lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to look at next, and why?

For some reason, the 'when I flip town' feels pretty forced here. Almost as if this question was asked just so she could say 'I'm town'.

I will admit, my original wording was "If you get me lynched, and I flip town" but I changed it because I figured saying "If...I flip town" was going to get me scumread. Apparently the updated wording still didn't work in my favor lol.

[Lalendra]

*IIRC he didn't try making

several

policy lynches. His vote for Chip came along with the 'I think he's useless as town too', but that wasn't his primary reason for voting Chip.
*After rereading, I don't really even see how he's pushing easy targets or taking the path of least resistance. The first two votes that he cast were for people that didn't have any other votes at the time.
*If he was just trying to find any easy vote, then why wouldn't he have just joined the Wossi or Lalendra bandwagons?
*Policy lynching and PoE are two very different things, so that point is a big stretch. Fwiw, I think PoE is a perfectly valid method for scum hunting even though it's hard using that to sway people.
*I don't see the benefit for him, as scum, to just repeatedly change his mind and follow skitter's opinions. I feel like this behavior can be attributed to the low effort that he put into his initial reads. skitter changed his mind by showing posts that he hadn't seen.

I agree with all of these points, especially the one about PoE vs. policy lynch. I was thinking the same thing. This is a large part of why I'm townreading Mulch.

[Lalendra]

*IIRC he didn't try making

several

policy lynches. His vote for Chip came along with the 'I think he's useless as town too', but that wasn't his primary reason for voting Chip.
*After rereading, I don't really even see how he's pushing easy targets or taking the path of least resistance. The first two votes that he cast were for people that didn't have any other votes at the time.
*If he was just trying to find any easy vote, then why wouldn't he have just joined the Wossi or Lalendra bandwagons?
*Policy lynching and PoE are two very different things, so that point is a big stretch. Fwiw, I think PoE is a perfectly valid method for scum hunting even though it's hard using that to sway people.
*I don't see the benefit for him, as scum, to just repeatedly change his mind and follow skitter's opinions. I feel like this behavior can be attributed to the low effort that he put into his initial reads. skitter changed his mind by showing posts that he hadn't seen.

I agree with all of these points, especially the one about PoE vs. policy lynch. I was thinking the same thing. This is a large part of why I'm townreading Mulch and scumreading Sephiroth for his forced "scumtells".

EBWOP

[Lalendra]

@lalendra:

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Can you explain like all of these? (especially the scumreads?)

Sorry for missing that. My scumreads on chip/dany/tiam/wossi are largely related to the way they've interacted with Mulch, who I still think is town, aside from the points that I made earlier about my Wossi scumread. Obviously Sephiroth has risen considerably above the others in terms of my estimation of their scumminess, which is why I said in an earlier post that I retracted my readlist; I'm like 99% convinced Seph is scum and would love to get a flip so I can parse associatives, but that isn't going to happen so I'll have to either wait for Mulch's flip or I'll be dead and it won't matter.

[Lalendra]

In what world does you thinking that the three of us are scum not equate to the three of us being scum together?? If there are three scum in a game, and you have three scumreads, how does that NOT necessitate that those three individuals are scum together??

In the world where there is a difference between saying "These are my three scum reads" and saying "These three people are 100% locked to be scum"? I don't really know how else to answer this. I think Mulch and you are the scummiest players in the game, and I lean slightly scum on Serg. You are my number one, number two and number three scum reads, respectively. I have varying levels of confidence in each of those reads. I could easily be wrong about 1, or 2, or all of you (all is very unlikely). I'm pretty confident that Mulch is scum, which is why I'm voting for him. I'm not going to completely disregard all the suspect stuff you've done based on interactions with someone of unknown alignment. The only world in which having 3 scum reads is the the same as thinking 3 people are scum together is the world in which we have 100% complete confidence in every single one of our reads all the time. Maybe I could see that argument if we were very close to LYLO but its day 1, and we have no alignment info at all. What you're saying simply makes no sense to me.

Like I'm trying really hard to not just throw up my hands here because this is like basic of the basics of how the game of mafia works, and how scum hunting works.

It doesn't make any sense to me because if you say "I think these three players are scum," you can't also turn around and say "I never said that you were scum TOGETHER." It seemed really really off to me that you would say that all three of us are scum, and then act flabbergasted by the idea that we are scum together. One sort of necessitates the other. NOW you are admitting that maybe not all three of us are scum, but that is a very different tone than the one I read in your original posts, and smacks to me of backtracking.

[Lalendra]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

[Lalendra]

@Seph/Mulch - If you get me lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to look at next, and why?

My scum reads are Mulch and you, followed by serg. Still can't decide what to make of Sergs seemingly random play. I get bad vibes from wavemode and wicked. I need to reread Chip's post explosion tonight to get a better sense but I'm happy to see them post more. Implosion needs to post more. They've done a better job engaging with the game than you have, but are still doing some lurking in plain sight. Who the hell knows with tiam. The meta suggests to me that theyre scum but I'd rather lynch one of my stronger reads since most people seem to read that meta the opposite way. I read Dany Skitter and Flub as town and I don't think you being town has significant impact on how I read those players.

I'm not sure what you flipping town would do to my reads. I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2. I feel the least confident in my reads on [wavemode wicked chip serg tiam and implosion] so those are the the players I'd want to probe a bit tomorrow.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Care to explain? Surely you don't read Mulch town based on your logic in 580 alone....

This is the post I was referring to. "My scum reads are Mulch and you, followed by serg." The fact that you later said that you "don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm" doesn't negate the fact that if you are right about all three of us (which you're not, and I am doubtful you're right about even one of us), we are all scum together. So I was pointing out how silly that would be based on the way I have played. You talking about your level of confidence in those reads, how one or more could be wrong, etc. doesn't come in until later. And frankly, it's kind of silly to analyze people's scumminess in a vacuum, and not take associatives into consideration at least somewhat; I would not scumread three people without at least considering the interactions I had seen between those three, or at least saying "hmm, if the three of them are scum then that means that they are a team together, and I will disregard what would be extremely obvious bussing on Lalendra's part if that is the case." I don't know, the entire argument just doesn't hold water, as far as I am concerned.

[Lalendra]

Buddying, not bussing.

[Lalendra]

Sorry for missing that. My scumreads on chip/dany/tiam/wossi are largely related to the way they've interacted with Mulch, who I still think is town, aside from the points that I made earlier about my Wossi scumread.

Can you specifically elaborate on Chip and Dany? (ie what are those interactions that are bothering you exactly?). Why aren't I on this list for pushing Mulch?

For some reason, the way you were pushing mulch didn't strike me as scummy. Like I understood what you were saying, but it felt TvT to me. I will ISO the rest at some point and respond to your questions re: Chip/Dany.

Skitter, I don't see Lalendra as disengaged - she seems plenty engaged with her theory dispute with Sephiroth. Out-of-it - maybe. Said dispute has reached the point where it almost like she is deliberately not getting what Sephiroth is saying.

I get it, but I don't agree. I feel like he was confabulating/backtracking. I may be wrong, and others are free to disagree, but that's how I see it.

Dany - "Sergtacos claimed miller, a miller claim by itself is not a reason to suspect someone or is it enough to clear someone but it also doesn't require us to put our focus on it." It sounds as if you're basically saying that the Miller claim isn't worth discussing. It's not a reason to suspect, but it's not a reason to clear, and we don't need to focus on it. Why do you think the claim was made? What motivation can you see for it that warrants easy dismissal?

You've said elsewhere that Dany is on your scum list and Taco is town, but this post only makes sense if you think both are scum. Have you managed to resolve this apparent contradiction? What is your current position on each player, and this post?

I'm not sure I understand why it only makes sense if I think both Dany and Taco are scum. I didn't understand why Dany simultaneously said that it wasn't enough to suspect or to clear him, and I also didn't understand why he didn't seem to think it was worth focusing on, so I asked. Why do you feel it only makes sense if they're both scum?

Do you even know what locktown means? Okay, maybe you could read these guys as town, but locktown???

Maybe not? To me locktown is someone who is 100% definitely, obviously, town. Yes, I was exaggerating for effect. I am locktown because I know I'm town. I am very confident that Mulch is town. I am slightly less confident, but still very confident, that Serg is town. So if you want my feelings without the hyperbole, that's it.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Can you give current reads for your four scum reads here please?

See above - will ISO when I can.

[Lalendra]

Finished my reread of D1.

Spoiler:

implosion: naked votes Wossi in RVS. Later accuses Wossi of being overly literal with Flub's scumclaim and says that Wossi is "scum who is trying to look like they're thinking about the game". Backed off of Wossi later and wasn't willing to lynch based on early game play, in light of the posts he made later. This feels town.

skitter: Argues with Wossi over "skitter made a wagon" observation and is accused of being defensive. Makes a lot of points about Wossi but most are what others also thought so nothing really AI there. Gets scum points for agreeing with TIAM that both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, and they both flipped town, but I like the rest of his play; null for now.

Dany: talks about how weird monkey's post 81 is but goes on to say he thinks wossi is "more scummy than monkey" and votes him. Earns town points when he unvotes when Wossi is at L-1, and doesn't like that Chip and Serg are looking for reasons to hop on the wagon very late. Also points out the scumminess of TIAM voting Wossi after the wagon was already building steam, after previously saying that skitter's vote had weak reasoning. Townlean, despite reading him as scum D1.

Wickedest: puts Wossi at L-2 because he doesn't seem "actually interested in figuring things out". His read on Wossi does evolve and he unvotes him near the end of the day, feeling that he was no longer confident enough in him being scum to vote him. This reads town to me, scum wouldn't back off of a mislynch that they had been riding for a length of time when they are this close.

Wave: says Flubber and Wossi both seem like lynchbait. Also accuses Wickedest of making excuses to put Wossi at L-2 rather than actually scumhunting. Says that he townreads Wossi on meta and sees no scum motivation in his posts. I think Wave is definitely town.

Sergtacos - Naked votes Wossi putting him at L-1. Also willing to vote Flub based on the fact that he is lurking. Seems like disengaged town, not scum.

Chip - Also seems like he's opportunistically jumping onto the Wossi wagon. Says that the scummiest thing to happen so far is wave's "meta" TR of Wossi, which turned out to be correct. Voted wave and said he would be his target if he had a one-shot. Points out again that Wossi is the "fashionable" wagon when he's at L-2. Also said Wossi was neutral once the Wossi wagon lost steam for the Mulch wagon (another mislynch).

TIAM - Offers to hammer Wossi. Later adds that Mulch is another scumlean; both flipped town. Not sure if scum or consistently wrong town. Later adds Serg, who obviously has not flipped yet but I TR him. So did Mulch. Moves his vote to Wossi late in the day saying he "doesn't want to put the day in jeopardy but does want to vote for scum."

HEM/Mulch - Hadn't yet made up mind on Wossi. Felt that flub/wave/2iam were town due to gut and the natural progression of their posts, and implosion was scum. Mulch later said that dany is "town but wrong" and Wossi is town. Agreed with Wave that Wossi is town based on meta. Also, in his last post, said that TIAM is scum and "will push Wossi tomorrow" - then Wossi gets NK'ed.

Flub - Changes his scumread on Wossi based on the fact that everyone trying to push him could only point to early game play.

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

We need to lynch this today.

[Lalendra]

I didn't include Seph in my reads because I'm not sure how to sort him. I definitely had him as my top scumread D1, but everyone pretty universally felt that my argument against him was bad, so I went back and looked at it again and I am willing to say that maybe I misinterpreted and was wrong in scumreading him. Obviously he was no longer my top scumread at the start of D2, since I voted someone else.

[Lalendra]

There are more than 6 players in this game, right? Can we get some activity from other players please?

I still think its suspect that Lalendra completely forgot to evaluate me in her first post, especially with the reasoning given. Lalendra, you realize that you ended the day with your vote on me, despite posting after some people had already declared your case against me weak, right? Why were you content to not post again or change your vote or SOMETHING at the end of the day if you decided that your read was not as good as you thought? Why not make a point to acknowledge at any point that you are changing your stance on me?

Serg I'm sorry but thats not a lie. See Skitter's post above. Why is your first response to any criticism always that the person reading you is scummy?

Because I didn't want to vote on any other wagon and it was clear you weren't getting lynched. Would you have preferred it if I unvoted and left my vote on no one? I generally leave my vote wherever it is unless I have reason to change it.

[Lalendra]

@skitter - Did you read what I wrote in my readslist about why my read on TIAM changed? I don't think it's that hard to go from "not sure if this person is scum" to "they did scummy things and now I think they're scum."

[Lalendra]

You guys really don't want to mislynch me, how about we go after someone who is actually scum? i.e. look in Chip, skitter, TIAM and iDany.

[Lalendra]

TIAM - Offers to hammer Wossi. Later adds that Mulch is another scumlean; both flipped town.

Not sure if scum or consistently wrong town.

Later adds Serg, who obviously has not flipped yet but I TR him. So did Mulch. Moves his vote to Wossi late in the day saying he "doesn't want to put the day in jeopardy but does want to vote for scum."

...

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

We need to lynch this today.

Can you explain why you are voting for TwoInAMillion? The bolded statements don't really seem to match.

I could have been more clear, but I was wrapping up that readslist at work before running out the door at 5. It was mostly this that pushed me from "not sure if scum or wrong town" to voting him:

HEM/Mulch - Hadn't yet made up mind on Wossi. Felt that flub/wave/2iam were town due to gut and the natural progression of their posts, and implosion was scum. Mulch later said that dany is "town but wrong" and Wossi is town. Agreed with Wave that Wossi is town based on meta. Also, in his last post,

said that TIAM is scum and "will push Wossi tomorrow" - then Wossi gets NK'ed.

[Lalendra]

Ugh, gdi.

VOTE: iDanyBoy

[Lalendra]

Serg is not my top scumread but I would be willing to join that wagon.

[Lalendra]

1. Lalendra
2. Why does mixing up the names seem like a scumslip? I don't find you less scummy, I just have a higher priority right this moment.

[Lalendra]

Like if Dany is town, then what's the difference between mislynching you and mislynching him? If he's scum, why would I hop off of a mislynch and onto a scumbuddy?

[Lalendra]

You are two of the four people I scumread. I'm not going to go into associatives until one of you flips.

[Lalendra]

Because there's very little point in nitpicking the interactions between all of you until one of you flips. Pre-flip associatives are a waste of time.

[Lalendra]

Which hasn't happened yet, so I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.

[Lalendra]

I was referring to the interactions between my four scum reads. None of you have flipped so there is no information to gain by examining associatives. You asked me how I envision you and Dany being scumbuddies, that was my answer.

[Lalendra]

I would favor Serg lynch over no lynch, but would much rather have a lynch within my scum pool. Hence why I have not moved my vote onto Serg. However, a no-lynch gives us no information, and Serg's behavior is offputting enough that I am willing to compromise on him as opposed to not lynching anyone at all.