Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[Chip Butty]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

Do you even know what locktown means? Okay, maybe you could read these guys as town, but locktown???

[Chip Butty]

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Can you give current reads for your four scum reads here please?

[Lalendra]

Sorry for missing that. My scumreads on chip/dany/tiam/wossi are largely related to the way they've interacted with Mulch, who I still think is town, aside from the points that I made earlier about my Wossi scumread.

Can you specifically elaborate on Chip and Dany? (ie what are those interactions that are bothering you exactly?). Why aren't I on this list for pushing Mulch?

For some reason, the way you were pushing mulch didn't strike me as scummy. Like I understood what you were saying, but it felt TvT to me. I will ISO the rest at some point and respond to your questions re: Chip/Dany.

Skitter, I don't see Lalendra as disengaged - she seems plenty engaged with her theory dispute with Sephiroth. Out-of-it - maybe. Said dispute has reached the point where it almost like she is deliberately not getting what Sephiroth is saying.

I get it, but I don't agree. I feel like he was confabulating/backtracking. I may be wrong, and others are free to disagree, but that's how I see it.

Dany - "Sergtacos claimed miller, a miller claim by itself is not a reason to suspect someone or is it enough to clear someone but it also doesn't require us to put our focus on it." It sounds as if you're basically saying that the Miller claim isn't worth discussing. It's not a reason to suspect, but it's not a reason to clear, and we don't need to focus on it. Why do you think the claim was made? What motivation can you see for it that warrants easy dismissal?

You've said elsewhere that Dany is on your scum list and Taco is town, but this post only makes sense if you think both are scum. Have you managed to resolve this apparent contradiction? What is your current position on each player, and this post?

I'm not sure I understand why it only makes sense if I think both Dany and Taco are scum. I didn't understand why Dany simultaneously said that it wasn't enough to suspect or to clear him, and I also didn't understand why he didn't seem to think it was worth focusing on, so I asked. Why do you feel it only makes sense if they're both scum?

Do you even know what locktown means? Okay, maybe you could read these guys as town, but locktown???

Maybe not? To me locktown is someone who is 100% definitely, obviously, town. Yes, I was exaggerating for effect. I am locktown because I know I'm town. I am very confident that Mulch is town. I am slightly less confident, but still very confident, that Serg is town. So if you want my feelings without the hyperbole, that's it.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Can you give current reads for your four scum reads here please?

See above - will ISO when I can.

[Chip Butty]

Just did a complete reread of the game. Scummest so far is wave's 'meta' tr of wossi.

VOTE: wave

This doesn't implicate wossi though, will wait until his return to assess.

Others looking scummy:

Taco for the miller thing. I can see why town might fakeclaim but not why they would back off. Can't quite see why scum would unless cold feet? Need him to say more...

HEM. In our last game i strong townread him for a while before becoming paranoid and switching to scumread. I'm getting a scum vibe here too but not sure why yet.

Dany, skitter, wicked can be townish for now. Slight tl for Lalendra.

Implosion and Sephi also towner flubber null TIAM scumlean

Update:
Dani, Sephiroth, implosion still towner.
Wicked slightly towner, and skitter down to neutral
Wossi neutral
Flubber neutral but I'm going to iso him next
TIAM still slightly scummer
HEM/Mulch, wave, and Taco still scummer
Lalendra now scummer

[Chip Butty]

@Lalendra: You seem to be suspicious of Dany in that post. But why would scum.Dany pour water on a discussion about a Town.Taco miller claim?

[Chip Butty]

...a discussion hostile to Taco?

[skitter30]

Skitter, I don't see Lalendra as disengaged - she seems plenty engaged with her theory dispute with Sephiroth. Out-of-it - maybe. Said dispute has reached the point where it almost like she is deliberately not getting what Sephiroth is saying.

Maybe disengaged isn't the right word. (I'm not really awake enough right now to be articulate or to find the words that I want to describe what I'm seeing, sorry).

I don't see why scum!lalendra starts this argument or keeps it going. I don't think she's maliciously misunderstanding or misrepping Seph. I think she actually believes what she's saying and thinks she caught Seph backtracking on his reads. I don't agree with like anything she's saying, but I think she's sincere even though I think she's really really wrong.

I think she's focusing on the wrong things and is kinda misreading the thread, but she seems sincere to me.

[iDanyboy]

Sorry for missing that. My scumreads on chip/dany/tiam/wossi are largely related to the way they've interacted with Mulch

My interactions with Mulch.

Mulch replaces humaneatingmonkey. Thanks Mulch

Hello!

The end.

[skitter30]

(I'm aware, that's kinda my point)

[Chip Butty]

I think the Sephiroth/Lalendra dispute boils down to this:

Sephiroth has his three top scumreads. Lalendra mistakenly says he is doing preflip associations.

Associations are where you say 'X is (prob) scum, and based on X/Y interactions, Y is scum too.'

Sephiroth says this is not what he is doing; rather, he has three infependent scumreads.

Endy story.

Ninja'd by skitter. I kind of agree but I'm finding it hard to believe that Town could be townreading mulch and taco so strongly. Otoh as Lalendra points out, it seems ridiculously straightforward if all threr are scum.

[Wossi]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

[Chip Butty]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

Do you have any positive reason for raising the possibility of multibsll?

[Chip Butty]

In addition to my reads above, I want to make it clear i regard Mulch and Taco as LYLOabilities, a word i just made up to describe someone who would be a liability in LYLO...

[Wossi]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

Do you have any positive reason for raising the possibility of multibsll?

What? Am I wrong, is it not a possibility?

All I'm saying (and I believe Seph is saying too) is that Lalendra's assertion that three potential scum must automatically be a team together and therefore must be hunted as a unit is odd and flawed for multiple reasons and seems like a poor attempt to misrep Seph

[wavemode]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

False

Wave, what's your opinion on Mulch?

Null

[Chip Butty]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

Do you have any positive reason for raising the possibility of multibsll?

What? Am I wrong, is it not a possibility?

All I'm saying (and I believe Seph is saying too) is that Lalendra's assertion that three potential scum must automatically be a team together and therefore must be hunted as a unit is odd and flawed for multiple reasons and seems like a poor attempt to misrep Seph

Yes it is a possibility, but that seems like a very defensive reaction. Do you have reasons or are you just raising the theoretical possibility of multiball to counter Lalendra?

You and Sephiroth reach similar conclusions re Lalendta, but for different reasons. He is denying he is doing preflip associations, while you're exploring the multiball angle. You're right technically, but it seems like a slightly odd place to go when they are arguing about preflip/not preflip...

[Flubbernugget]

prodge for now, hope to get to this tomorrow

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.12:

Mulch (6)

- Flubbernugget, Chip Butty, skitter30, Wossi, Sephiroth, implosion

Lalendra (3)

- Sergtacos, iDanyboy, Wickedestjr

Wossi (1)

- TwoInAMillion

Sergtacos (1)

- wavemode

Sephiroth (1)

- Lalendra

Not Voting (2)

- Mulch

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is at 3pm GMT on Sunday 26th November 2017 ((expired on 2017-11-26 15:00:00))

[Mulch]

Are you proud of me for not self hammering NExus

[Wossi]

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

Why does me scumreading the three of you necessitate that all three of you are scum together? I'm not going to delude myself into thinking everyone I have a scum read on D1 = the scum team. That would be silly. It just means I independently find each of you to be the scummiest in the game. I stated as much in my previous post to you:

I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2.

In what world does you thinking that the three of us are scum not equate to the three of us being scum together?? If there are three scum in a game, and you have three scumreads, how does that NOT necessitate that those three individuals are scum together??

Chip, I'm not sure if you're reading the game or not, but I brought up multiball in response to Lalendra making arguments like the one quoted. This argument only works if there was ZERO chance of multiple factions. When I see a fundamentally flawed argument, I'll say so and provide the reason. What do you think I'm being defensive against?

[Wossi]

Are you proud of me for not self hammering NExus

Maybe you should claim or at least defend yourself?

[Mulch]

Are you proud of me for not self hammering NExus

Maybe you should claim or at least defend yourself?

Why?

[implosion]

Mulch is very probably scum who has accepted the lynch. Someone please just threaten a hammer so that we can see him probably refuse to claim so we can get on with it. I understand townreading his early play from certain angles but I don't understand how you can still townread him after the marked shift in his play in the past few pages.

Multiball (as in multiple multi-person scumteams) is technically allowed in mini normals but is extremely exceedingly rare, as in I cannot remember a single game of it. Serial killers exist but are pretty rare these days. It's not worth really considering until there's evidence of it.

I don't really buy the points toward Serg-scum. The point that he's acting more erratic in response to people saying he's erratic as town ignores that (1) he was acting erratic before people were saying that he is erratic as town, and (2) that it basically puts him in a double-bind: if he acts less erratic, he's scum because that's how he plays as scum. If he acts erratic, he's scum because he's just doing that to play to the meta people are calling him out for. I don't buy that he specifically got actively more erratic when people called it his town meta.

[Chip Butty]

Wossi: yeah, read my 740 again.

[Chip Butty]

It's a dispute about whether Sephiroth is doing three independent scumreads, or pteflip associations. Bringing up multiball displays misunderstanding of that interaction, in that you're buying into Lalendra's confusion(?)