Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Archwing

Because I prefer his name as Archie Wing.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not particularly scumreading Comm right now; I've played with him before and he is known for being a big-dick type of player, especially when analysing vote-counts.

My first serious vote will be going to a player who has had a very passive opening; in 27 he's trying to look busy, 41 is a useless post where he's just echoing what's already been said without directly involving himself with the Comm wagon, 42 is just an inexplicably easy townread.

Spoiler:

so rvs i sover, happy to get a wagon going on archwing

How is RVS over?
Why Arch in particular?

cytheflyguy is Town.

Second.

Comm, I'd also like to see some rationale for your wagon analysis. Seemed kind of off. I would consider it a possibility if you said there's at least one scum in Arch's wagon, but that's not super helpful to begin with.

... that just makes it seem like you picked any of the names without pattern and said scum are in there. It makes it look super lazy since there is another wagon at 2 as well so you just picked the top 2 wagons in the VC, by position in format not by vote count amount.

FoS Commknight.

Leaning town on this too.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Impede

[Luca Blight]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

Just to elaborate... the fact that it apparently didn't occur to cy that this would be the case is why I feel this is likely coming from Town. More of dumb tell than anything else.

So how do you think he would have answered it as scum?

[Luca Blight]

Whether he is Town or scum, saying

"I cannot prove or disprove you being right or wrong"

still rings true - as Town you can't prove it because you don't know everyone's alignment, and as scum you can't prove it because to do so would result in outing your scum team.

If you want to base a read on that then fine, but I won't be doing so.

[Luca Blight]

Athena, you've been questioning the reads of others but do you have any yourself?

[Luca Blight]

Lucky, I want to know what changed since fos'ing Comm in 34 to cause you to vote him in your last post?

[Luca Blight]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

You're taking that out of context; he was replying to 37 where he was being accused of looking for a reaction.

Do you have any counter reasons to my logic? It's only page 2 and I am making early reads to help my own process with it. I could keep it to myself or I can make it public. Fine by me either way really.

I can't counter what's not there. It's not what you said but the lack thereof. This game is a group effort. If you make a statement like that, please share with the rest of the class your reasoning.

Otherwise, it looks like random fishing for a reaction.

So if I were fishing for a reaction, how do you think you'd fare in that department?

Also am I wrong? Can you prove it?

[Luca Blight]

What's to say he wasn't looking for reactions, though?

Most things done in and around RVS are for the purpose of gauging reactions in order to move the game forward.

[Luca Blight]

I see you completely ignored the second line.

You're saying he's scummy for apparently looking for reactions, when that is something that is commonly done in and around RVS.

You are the one who wants to lynch Comm, you are the one using this as your reasoning for suspecting him, therefore the onus is on you to provide something that shows Comm was not really looking for reactions as claimed.

[Luca Blight]

I am reading; that was what I meant by the word 'apparently'.

Yes it's wifom, but that's all your vote is based on; it has no substance. You have no evidence Comm wasn't really looking for reactions; it's pure conjecture.

[Luca Blight]

Basically 31 could be either scum faking contribution or Town fishing for reactions, which is more likely?

I think contribution could be faked in a much more subtle way.

[Luca Blight]

I am reading; that was what I meant by the word 'apparently'.

Yes it's wifom, but that's all your vote is based on; it has no substance. You have no evidence Comm wasn't really looking for reactions; it's pure conjecture.

We are in a vanilla game, that will have no night kills, and only lynches on day 1. What "evidence" are you expecting us to find exactly Luca?

Something to show his intentions are not as he claimed them to be.

If you're going to vote him for doing something that is pretty usual in RVS then you need to have something to back it up, otherwise you haven't got a leg to stand on.

[Luca Blight]

Something to show his intentions are not as he claimed them to be.

Give me an actual example of this that could happen on Day 1. If you can, find an example in a finished game that did not include any day actions or weird mechanics. I will wait here while you find one.

You're asking for examples of valid reasoning? Jesus.

I'll give you an example of how ridiculous your position is:

Lucky and Comm are both scum - Lucky is bussing his partner. I have absolutely nothing to back this up with but it's D1 so f*ck it, I can say whatever the hell I want.

[Luca Blight]

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

[Luca Blight]

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

You're exaggerating my point and you know it. You don't need conclusive proof to vote someone, but you need some valid reasoning at least. I'm not going to join you in voting Comm just because of your guess that he's lying about fishing for reactions.

I have already given a scumread if you read my posts.

[Luca Blight]

shit sorry didnt realise u replacment
for lucca who looked town

Lucca who didn't post? I assume you mean me.

I was looking forward to a game not involving Voyager for a change but alas, it wasn't to be.

[Luca Blight]

@Impede:

Show where the 'tons of AtE' is in my posts.

My responses were perfectly valid I think you'll find, just because I didn't feel like playing along with Lucky's vague and nonsensical request for an example of valid reasoning - not only is this deflecting from the fact that my point was specific instead of general, it is just a silly thing to ask. I instead pointed out that there wasn't valid reasoning behind Lucky's vote as he so claimed.

[Luca Blight]

I find it interesting how Impede ignored my vote and points against him in 52 and then precedes to undermine me on a separate issue.

[Luca Blight]

Proceeds*

[Luca Blight]

Gut feeling on Impede and UCV being scum buddies....just putting it in here for reference.

[Luca Blight]

@Impede:

I refute that I was being emotional rather than rational in response to Lucky. If you're going to maintain that argument then you need to provide spefic examples for what you're talking about.

@Laser:

why do I look scummy?

[Luca Blight]

Scumteam =

Impede, UCV, LaserGuy, ???

.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

Impede's catch-up was pretty decent and I no longer want to lynch him today.

My preferred lynch today is UCV. I have experience with him and know his style well - this really feels like his scum game to me. I've been trying my best not to tunnel on him as I'm aware I have a tendancy to, but it really feels as if he's trying to buddy me to get me on his side so I won't go for him.

Spoiler: UCV's buddying

im leaning Luca townie. . .depending on if he continues to post like he is.

Luca doesn't ATE. I don't remember seeing ATE from him, and i doubt he is actually doing it. he has a solid game style. no need to change

are you sure you know what ATE is? IF not, it is appeal to emotion. Im sure you know this though

Gut feeling on Impede and UCV being scum buddies....just putting it in here for reference.

you always have gut feeling i am scum though i can't blame you tbh.

Luca has played with me in a few games

a mini normal where i was a town JailKeeper
In a newbie game (mandella effect) where i was Doctor
A newbie game (basketball) where i was scum and was the most obv scum and somehow won! that is why he has the right to scum read me based on gut. though im town here. : p

why would you ask someone to lynch you?

tbh, this looks like ATE to me. and the fact you were trying use ATE earlier disturbs me.

Because he's clearly not read my posts and is falling victim to conf bias. Don't like his playstyle at all. If I'm going to be on the receiving end of it all game for no reason then I'll either have to get used to ignoring it or end up dead. It's a waste because I feel relatively strongly that he's town and should be going after players presenting legitimate scumtells.

Luca has a really good play style. i have seen him figure out who the scum is several times. He takes a good approach to the game as well. What he is doing now isn confbias. if he was confbias, he would probably be on me right now.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73370
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73677
these are some examples of when i confbias. confbias generally doesn't happen til nylo or mylo.

another thing

confbias is a town move

. If luca is confbiasing you, isn't your main scum read moz who also would be confbias you? Im still trying to figure out how it isn't

OMGUS

.

I find it very strange how you kept rather silent until this case formed on you, and you started to post again. It makes little to no since.

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

Spoiler: UCV's fence-sitting

I am all ready town reading Mozamis.
His posts seem to be coming from a townie point of view

I have a null read on Luca
i am familiar with his play, so i will be able to read him soon

i have a scum lean on archwing
I am less familiar with this player, but i don't know how trying to make RVS last longer helps town, so i am all ready not so sure about that slot

This one is too orderly - one townread, one null read and one scumread? Convenient.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

I have seen town ignore cases on them, but i have also seen

A LOT

of times

is implede's scum play a LURK!SCUM?

If so, i would totally vote for him. Im still trying to make reads, though it is early in the game

I'm not liking how impede keeps saying he will post later, but I see where he is coming from. I have done that as town.
His ATE case made no since

VOTE: UCV

Everyone sheep me.

[Luca Blight]

@Laser:

why do I look scummy?

In this type of game, I feel it is very likely there is going to be a lot of SvS infighting early on. You and Lucky's interaction has this vibe to me... you start with a discussion about Comm's intentions, but very quickly Comm is sidelined out of the discussion without any really input from him and you proceed to tunnel each other for the next six pages. The fact that Comm actually commented on your discussion at #100 and neither of you either asked him a question or wanted him to weigh in seems to suggest that neither of you are really interested in Comm at all. This is particularly unsettling since as of #172 don't actually think Lucky is scum, in which case it's not clear to me why you've spent so much energy on this. I'm leaning SvS on this whole interaction.

My problem was with Lucky's vote, not with Comm. You should read it again as you obviously misunderstood the point I was making.

[Luca Blight]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

[Luca Blight]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

so Why am i any different?

Because you're trying to buddy me and it feels fake.

If it's genuine then I apologise, but I can't shake this feeling that you're scum, and I don't think I'll be able to until you're dead.

[Luca Blight]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

This is a complete exaggeration of my point, as I already said.

My point was specific, you're trying to generalise it. In your specific case there was no reason to think Comm was lying other than pure guesswork, and given the fact that in RVS everyone fishes for reactions to some degree, the burden of proof is with you. If you have literally nothing (I'm not talking abut conclusive evidence, just something to back-up what you're saying) then I don't see how you can think anyone will be convinced by your argument.

Anyway, let's leave this here.

[Luca Blight]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

I do, and I strongly suspect he is scum.

Is there any particular reason you don't want to vote UCV?

[Luca Blight]

I'm not particularly scumreading Lucky at the moment - although I disagree with most of his posts I'm inclined to believe his intentions were genuine. He needs to post about other stuff though, that's for sure.

UCV is my clearest scumread and I don't see myself budging from that today unless something significant happens.

[Luca Blight]

I'm curious to hear why you townread Athena, Comm.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not fully able to explain why I strongly believe UCV is scum other than that I know his meta well, and he knows I know his meta well. He has been trying to buddy me because he knows I have a tendency to tunnel on him when I scumread him, and he was trying to prevent that.

Basically if you townread me then I implore you to trust me and vote UCV - there is no better lynch for D1.

[Luca Blight]

Note for reference that Cy, having been widely townread early on, has done nothing since.

[Luca Blight]

Note for reference that Cy, having been widely townread early on, has done nothing since.

But is this from a lack of real content in his posts or a lack of activity? I think there's a distinction you're missing there.

What are you talking about? He had literally done nothing in the time between being townread early on until I called him out on not doing anything in 252.

[Luca Blight]

@Athena:

I didn't say it was necessarily NAI - it was just a point of reference, but he had obviously been lurking as he posted almost immediately afterwards.

[Luca Blight]

necessarily AI*

[Luca Blight]

@Athena:

I didn't say it was necessarily NAI - it was just a point of reference, but he had obviously been lurking as he posted almost immediately afterwards.

You didn't explicitly say anything but I think the obvious implication there is that it's a point of suspicion. I can't conclusively say anything on the second point, but you disregard the frequency of coincidence.

It wasn't a coincidence - he even stated in his post he wanted to wait and see how things panned out.

I'm not sure what your problem is here exactly - I called out a lurker and he responded, meaning it had the desired effect. I don't particularly scumread him apart from that - my target today is UCV and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[Luca Blight]

This vote-count is ridiculously diluted. Time to condense our votes.

Who wants to vote UCV with me?

Luca, what's your take on sesq, mozamis and zaraki?

Sesq is probably town based on the emotion from his posts and the strength of his pushes which feel pretty genuine.

The other two are pretty null to me at the moment, although I haven't ISO'd them and don't plan to until UCV is lynched - he is the only player I'm willing to vote for today as I'm over 90% sure he's scum.

[Luca Blight]

Alright, I'll post my case on UCV in a bit.

[Luca Blight]

UC Voyager

122, 171, 191, 266 - A continuing theme of

'town should/shouldn't be doing this!'

. This is something UCV does when he is scum.

129 - Completely fake scumhunting. Looks contrived with one townread, one null read, one scum read, and no real reasoning for any of it.

141, 143,152, 155, 199 - Buddying me. As I explained before, he knows I know his meta well and that I tunnel on him once I catch on that he's scum, and he entered into this game with the plan of trying to appease me, no doubt about it.

146, 147, 174 - Fence-sitting. This is something I know he does as scum.

159 Asking if Impede's play is lurkscum; why can't he judge this for himself?

189 - non-committal and unexplained reads list where he gives scum leans but says he has no solid scum reads, but is apparently 'still hunting'.

222 - Responds to my vote on him for buddying with a further attempt at buddying, saying it's good I don't always consider those who side with me as being of the same alignment. He's also using emotion here to try and get me to change my mind.

Other than that, I have played with him many times now and can read this guy like a book. UCV is today's lynch - let's make it happen.

Unless anyone can give any good reason why we

shouldn't

lynch UCV today?

[Luca Blight]

@Laser:

You seem to be maintaining the view that me and Lucky are scum buddies which was based on your 214 which I refuted with my216.

I just want you to explain why you still seem to feel this way.

[Luca Blight]

I genuinely think you're scum. Replacing out is pointless either way.

If you're Town then you get the last laugh, right?

[Luca Blight]

Replacing out because you're being scumread is just laughable to be honest.

[Luca Blight]

Statistics are irrelevant - just because you draw scum one game doesn't mean you're less likely to in the next.

I made a lot of points not involving meta - you haven't addressed them.

I kept an open mind and tried to consider you might be Town, but I just strongly believe you are scum this game. Am I supposed to suppress that feeling in case you get annoyed?

No. Being scumread is part of the game. Deal with it.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, obviously you would try not to play your scum meta, but you're not yet very experienced at hiding it and I can see through it pretty easily.

Just use it as a learning experience and move on.

[Luca Blight]

Voyager, are you really gonna replace out like this?

Have some dignity at least.

[Luca Blight]

Notice he's only replacing out now others have voted him, despite the fact I've been tunneling on him for a while now in this game.

He's just angry that I've caught him again. Let's lynch this slot.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

UC Voyager

122, 171, 191, 266 - A continuing theme of

'town should/shouldn't be doing this!'

. This is something UCV does when he is scum.

129 - Completely fake scumhunting. Looks contrived with one townread, one null read, one scum read, and no real reasoning for any of it.

141, 143,152, 155, 199 - Buddying me. As I explained before, he knows I know his meta well and that I tunnel on him once I catch on that he's scum, and he entered into this game with the plan of trying to appease me, no doubt about it.

146, 147, 174 - Fence-sitting. This is something I know he does as scum.

159 Asking if Impede's play is lurkscum; why can't he judge this for himself?

189 - non-committal and unexplained reads list where he gives scum leans but says he has no solid scum reads, but is apparently 'still hunting'.

222 - Responds to my vote on him for buddying with a further attempt at buddying, saying it's good I don't always consider those who side with me as being of the same alignment. He's also using emotion here to try and get me to change my mind.

Other than that, I have played with him many times now and can read this guy like a book. UCV is today's lynch - let's make it happen.

Unless anyone can give any good reason why we

shouldn't

lynch UCV today?

Statistics are irrelevant - just because you draw scum one game doesn't mean you're less likely to in the next.

I made a lot of points not involving meta - you haven't addressed them.

I kept an open mind and tried to consider you might be Town, but I just strongly believe you are scum this game. Am I supposed to suppress that feeling in case you get annoyed?

No. Being scumread is part of the game. Deal with it.

Hmm...tbf you only referenced 4 posts that had nothing to do with metaing. These were all the points that had only one post to back up the claim.

The first one made me raise an eyebrow was "no real reasoning for any of it". I'm sorry, but...

Spoiler:

OK, so P.O.E time:

Town= Moz, Sesq, Lucca, Lucky, Zaraki, Comm

So scum in: archer, impede, cyber, cult, voyager, laser guy

thats four scum in 6 , good odds!

out of those 6, gun to head i would say scum team is: archer, impede, cult and voyager

Finally caught up. Here's where I'm at as far as reads. Not going to post a ton of rationale since I need to get back to work (on lunch right now), but most of it is in my previous posts from the past hour. Feel free to question anything in particular that doesn't jive and I'll explain.

Town

to

Null

to

Scum

:

Sesq, Moz

UCV*, Luca, Cy

----slight

Laser*, Comm

----leaning town

CoA*, Arch('s slot)*

----leaning scum

Lucky, Zaraki

*indicates a need for more content. Don't feel great about these reads.

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

Note for reference that Cy, having been widely townread early on, has done nothing since.

Fair

I'll be honest, I'm not too confident in my reads as of late so I wanted to wait things out for a bit.

However, I might as well post some reads just to be relevant again.

Town

Luca Blight
Impede
Laserguy
CultofAthena-Town/Null

Null

UC
Zulfy
Sesq

Scum

Lucky2u-Honestly putting him here
CommKnight
mozamis

I feel like a sheep since this is popular consensus. I work better when there's something I want to contradict.

Including myself and excluding UVC, there are four other people who gave little/literally no reasoning for their reads. I feel that UVC's meta has blinded you in the order of who you want to lynch, but these should be addressed as well down the line if we're reasoning that poor reads=a larger likelihood of being scum or not.

Obviously, I don't have the same meta experience as you do (well, none of which I'm allowed to speak of), but you are the only one who has had experience with him out of all of us, as far as I know. I cannot truely take you at your word regarding the meta. Your three posts that I have not addressed do hold some water, but I interpreted them differently. I saw it as more unsure and testing waters more than anything else. I am slightly convinced, but I don't want him lynched just yet. With how fast votes are going for him, for my best interest in using time wisely, I will abstain for now.

Right, so you've taken one part of one point and then used it to dismiss my entire case? The main part of the point you're talking about is that his reads were contrived - how convenient is it to have one townread, one null read and one scum read laid out like that? It isn't natural. The fact there was no reasoning for any of it only compounds the matter as it looks like he's just trying to fabricate something to look busy.

I feel there is enough to warrant a UCV lynch even if you entirely exclude meta. Just note his reaction to being voted - he isn't angry because I'm tunneling him, as I've been doing it for a while this game without him getting angry. He's annoyed that it's working and that I will successfully get him lynched again.

[Luca Blight]

I'm sorry, but I was up very late, but I'm going to have to unvote UCV. Looking back, if it really was his first (or one of the) scum game, and you've been using the meta against him, then I see a 7for7 fallacy. Can't follow that.

Also, Sesq is really bouncy with wagoning.

Unvote: UC Voyager

What happened to my case being 'compelling'?

That's not the only meta I'm using against him. I'm not able to explain fully, but if you look through UCV's recent meta you will see what I'm talking about.

[Luca Blight]

And still no-one has said why we

shouldn't

lynch UCV. For a D1 lynch this is about as good as it gets.

If we shouldn't lynch UCV then who should we lynch instead?

[Luca Blight]

Basically you're asking me how UCV's behaviour this game could come from a Town perspective?

If so, you should ask that question to whoever is against UCV's lynch.

[Luca Blight]

In response to UVC's orange-coloured text above:

1. I have been in a game with you when you were VT (Baseball).

2. Fence-sitting, not 'fence-shitting'. It's basically where you're flip-flopping; not taking an actual stance on something.

3. Fake scum-hunting as you're giving the impression you're looking for scum. I've already explained why it reads fake.

[Luca Blight]

In response to UVC's orange-coloured text above:

1. I have been in a game with you when you were VT (Baseball).

2. Fence-sitting, not 'fence-shitting'. It's basically where you're flip-flopping; not taking an actual stance on something.

3. Fake scum-hunting as you're giving the impression you're looking for scum. I've already explained why it reads fake.

ok. you were replaced out. i forgot about that. plus, would you really count a game where I threw it that baddly. i mean, i pretty much accepted the lynch like a bar of chocolate.

I didn't replace out, I was night-killed after your lynch.

Basically you're asking me how UCV's behaviour this game could come from a Town perspective?

If so, you should ask that question to whoever is against UCV's lynch.

Not really what I was getting at.

But I think I've seen enough. The fence sitting looks bad enough, but combined with that jankity vote it just comes off wrong.

VOTE: UC Voyager

This is L-2 by my count

What were you getting at, then?

Basically you're asking me how UCV's behaviour this game could come from a Town perspective?

If so, you should ask that question to whoever is against UCV's lynch.

no

you do it

As Moz pointed out, in what world should the person pushing someone's lynch then be the one to offer a defence to that player?

I strongly believe UCV is scum for reasons that can and can't be explained, and I'm not gonna give anyone free excuses to avoid lynching him.

[Luca Blight]

Read properly - it wasn't me saying Impede is bussing.

[Luca Blight]

I do have other reads but you are by far my clearest scumread, therefore I'm not focusing on anyone else until you're dead.

I can't be NK'd either way so there is no reason for me to spill all my thoughts right now.

[Luca Blight]

Impede - I understand your question now. I still don't want to answer it however for a couple of reasons: a) it will influence how UCV is playing now and b) it will influence him in possible future games which will make it harder for me to read him.

[Luca Blight]

Are you saying if UCV flips Town you would be scumreading me?

[Luca Blight]

Gut feeling on Impede and UCV being scum buddies....just putting it in here for reference.

hmmmm. scum reads me on

GUT FEELING

Yes, initially my read was gut feeling. What's the issue with this, and what's with the big, red-coloured lettering?

Scumteam =

Impede, UCV, LaserGuy, ???

.

wow, you were litterally just accusing me of making reads with no reasoning. talk about hypocrisy

I gave reasoning already for UCV and Impede. I was making a possible connection for reference - the reasoning is pretty self-explanatory as this post came just after the interaction it was referring to.

UNVOTE:

Impede's catch-up was pretty decent and I no longer want to lynch him today.

My preferred lynch today is UCV. I have experience with him and know his style well - this really feels like his scum game to me. I've been trying my best not to tunnel on him as I'm aware I have a tendancy to, but it really feels as if he's trying to buddy me to get me on his side so I won't go for him.

Spoiler: UCV's buddying

im leaning Luca townie. . .depending on if he continues to post like he is.

Luca doesn't ATE. I don't remember seeing ATE from him, and i doubt he is actually doing it. he has a solid game style. no need to change

are you sure you know what ATE is? IF not, it is appeal to emotion. Im sure you know this though

Gut feeling on Impede and UCV being scum buddies....just putting it in here for reference.

you always have gut feeling i am scum though i can't blame you tbh.

Luca has played with me in a few games

a mini normal where i was a town JailKeeper
In a newbie game (mandella effect) where i was Doctor
A newbie game (basketball) where i was scum and was the most obv scum and somehow won! that is why he has the right to scum read me based on gut. though im town here. : p

why would you ask someone to lynch you?

tbh, this looks like ATE to me. and the fact you were trying use ATE earlier disturbs me.

Because he's clearly not read my posts and is falling victim to conf bias. Don't like his playstyle at all. If I'm going to be on the receiving end of it all game for no reason then I'll either have to get used to ignoring it or end up dead. It's a waste because I feel relatively strongly that he's town and should be going after players presenting legitimate scumtells.

Luca has a really good play style. i have seen him figure out who the scum is several times. He takes a good approach to the game as well. What he is doing now isn confbias. if he was confbias, he would probably be on me right now.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73370
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73677
these are some examples of when i confbias. confbias generally doesn't happen til nylo or mylo.

another thing

confbias is a town move

. If luca is confbiasing you, isn't your main scum read moz who also would be confbias you? Im still trying to figure out how it isn't

OMGUS

.

I find it very strange how you kept rather silent until this case formed on you, and you started to post again. It makes little to no since.

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

Spoiler: UCV's fence-sitting

I am all ready town reading Mozamis.
His posts seem to be coming from a townie point of view

I have a null read on Luca
i am familiar with his play, so i will be able to read him soon

i have a scum lean on archwing
I am less familiar with this player, but i don't know how trying to make RVS last longer helps town, so i am all ready not so sure about that slot

This one is too orderly - one townread, one null read and one scumread? Convenient.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

I have seen town ignore cases on them, but i have also seen

A LOT

of times

is implede's scum play a LURK!SCUM?

If so, i would totally vote for him. Im still trying to make reads, though it is early in the game

I'm not liking how impede keeps saying he will post later, but I see where he is coming from. I have done that as town.
His ATE case made no since

VOTE: UCV

Everyone sheep me.

OK. let me walk through this

1. you said i was buddying you when some of those quotes were me stating pure fact! Other posts, i was litterally doing what your doing to me, but i was town reading you
141 was saying i have seen your town play and will see it soon if you are town. you eventually turn around and start this whole case on me. notice how you were not super hostile with me until i mentioned your meta. then all of a sudden you are getting scared. the more and more i read your posts, the weaker my town read on you is.

143 I stated fact. you don't like ATE. I wasn't even hard town reading you, just stating fact. Do you wan't to utilize ATE later on,, but need me gone to do so?

152 wasn't even a town read on you god damnit.

199sure, it is a town read on you, but is it really buddying?


moving on
,my fence sitting is not really a valid fucking reason

-I did not want to just jump on a wagon because one could be lurking. lurking isn't a scum tell unless that is a meta, so i was asking if it was his scum meta. if it was, then i wouldn't be risking as much then if he lurked as town some times or he was just busy!

You think I was getting scared of you because you mentioned by meta? Don't be daft. What reason would I have to fear someone who not only completely townread me but was actively buddying me?

143 - you think I want you gone so I can use AtE later-on? That is laughable. And yes you were clearly townreading me, don't deny it.

152 - No, but you were being overly-friendly in response to my suspicion of you.

199 - yes, it is buddying.

Fence sitting really is a valid fucking reason.

You say lurking isn't a scumtell yet you are currently voting someone for lurking? Go figure.

[Luca Blight]

So now I'm suddenly scum when UCV knows I have a tendency to tunnel him when I genuinely believe he's scum?

[Luca Blight]

the irony of UCV telling anyone to read properly.

I've been tunnelling you for a while now and you continued to townread me. You also know I have a tendency to tunnel you when I'm town and believe you're scum. Please explain the read progression here.

[Luca Blight]

I wanted to keep you around as whoever replaces you is obviously going to be unable/unwilling to answer for your shit.

How is this comparable to the BlackVoid thing? Unless you faked replacing out just so you could compare it to that?

[Luca Blight]

The difference is BlackVoid ragequitted based on the game stagnating, whereas you fake-quit because you were being scumread.

One is a towntell, one is a scumtell.

[Luca Blight]

I'm dodging questions? How about you explain your insane read-progression on me.

You're just lying about the BlackVoid thing - he wasn't being suspected, he was pissed off about the game stagnating and people wanting a no-lynch.

[Luca Blight]

Proof that UCV is lyning about the BlackVoid thing

- This was his last post before ragequitting:

What information dude? You've been doing this since the middle of D3 saying we should lynch "anyone" so you can get "information and flips." I suggested a no lynch and you voted on a lynch you don't even believe in because we absolutely need a flip and now you're trying to waste today as well because "information." What information? What are your reads? Who do you suspect? Actually post something for once because I'm tired of you not playing this game and trying to run down the clock.

Read the thread around this quote for context. He did not ragequit because he was being scumread, he ragequit because the game was stagnating/people weren't posting anything. This was a sure-fire towntell.

UCV is trying to use this to make his fake-ragequit look like a towntell, but he is misrepping what happened in the game he is referring to, for which he is basing his vote on me.

UCV is lying scum.

[Luca Blight]

I'm dodging questions? How about you explain your insane read-progression on me.

You're just lying about the BlackVoid thing - he wasn't being suspected, he was pissed off about the game stagnating and people wanting a no-lynch.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.
I was scum casing him. Lucca also was. there was suspicious on him for a while.

either way, both reasons are rage quits. you fucking just proved to me that your scum for once.

You just proved to me beyond all doubt that you are scum.

You know full well what happened in that game, and it explains your fake replace-out in this one.

You did it with the intention of using it to prove your innocence by bringing up the BlackVoid thing, but anyone with a pair of eyes can see how different the scenarios are.

[Luca Blight]

Right, so you've taken one part of one point and then used it to dismiss my entire case?

What? He quite clearly commented on the rest of what you were talking about as to why he doesn't want to lynch UCV - you even quoted it right there and responded to it.

The main part of the point you're talking about is that his reads were contrived - how convenient is it to have one townread, one null read and one scum read laid out like that? It isn't natural. The fact there was no reasoning for any of it only compounds the matter as it looks like he's just trying to fabricate something to look busy.

I think you overestimate the disorganization of randomness. There's a lot more I want to talk about regarding this, but none of it is particularly game-relevant. For now I think i'm agreeing with cy.

I feel there is enough to warrant a UCV lynch even if you entirely exclude meta. Just note his reaction to being voted - he isn't angry because I'm tunneling him, as I've been doing it for a while this game without him getting angry. He's annoyed that it's working and that I will successfully get him lynched again.

Why does that reaction always come from scum?

1. He may have mentioned the others parts of my case, but he is still dismissing them while focusing on half of one point.

2. Fluff.

3. Being friendly with me up until others start voting on him and then throwing his toys out of the pram? I can see more scum motivation than town there.

You want to say something relevant, Athena?

[Luca Blight]

no. I could have sworn that is why he left.

now im a scum's wet dream come true

It is going to literally suck seeing UCV, VT, lynched day one.


i will never join a game with Luca again. if i would not had read the wrong playerlist, i never would have joined this game.

You always copy my lines haha.

I am a big influence on UCV's Mafia development, for sure.

[Luca Blight]

I think a ragequit is a ragequit, regardless of alignment.

Apart from when it's a fake ragequit.

And you're missing the context here - UCV faked a ragequit with BlackVoid's in mind, knowing that slot was later seen as conf town in that game. UCV is basing his vote on me on the fact I viewed BlackVoid's as Town but UCV's as scum, even though the scenarios are completely different which I have proven, yet which he still denies.

Basically UCV was trying to fake a towntell, but has in reality just dug himself an even deeper hole as he's just been caught blatantly lying to try to get himself out of trouble.

[Luca Blight]

You're happy with your vote where it is, even though it is completely meaningless as it stands. UCV is such a clear lynch candidate that the game is essentially divided into two sets of players - those voting UCV, and those who aren't. Everything else is just irrelevant detail at the moment.

For those not voting UCV, you need to a) explain why you don't want a UCV lynch, b) explain why you want to vote someone else and c) push that wagon as hard as I've pushed my lynch target.

You're doing none of the above and your vote on Lucky is nothing but a vanity wagon.

[Luca Blight]

The fact UCV brought up the BlackVoid replace-out from the Basketball game, and then lied about the context of it, means his own ragequit was a calculated move and solidifies in my mind that UCV is scum.

UCV's sudden read-change one me reeks of desperation, and his vote on me is based entirely on a proven lie.

[Luca Blight]

Whether UCV misread it (I find this hard to believe as he lived and breathed every moment of that game) or not, the fact is he still faked a ragequit with BlackVoid's replace-out in mind, hoping to be seen as Town for doing it as BlackVoid was in that game.

[Luca Blight]

Also note that UCV keeps accusing me of dodging questions, yet has repeatedly avoided mine asking him to explain his read progression on me.

[Luca Blight]

You're happy with your vote where it is, even though it is completely meaningless as it stands. UCV is such a clear lynch candidate that the game is essentially divided into two sets of players - those voting UCV, and those who aren't. Everything else is just irrelevant detail at the moment.

For those not voting UCV, you need to a) explain why you don't want a UCV lynch, b) explain why you want to vote someone else and c) push that wagon as hard as I've pushed my lynch target.

Pretty much the only reason that I would have UCV on the table today is because if we don't lynch him, we're just going to have to go through this nonsense again tomorrow unless we decide to lynch you instead. UCV is fairly null to me... I have a stronger scumread on you than I do on him. I find your case on him quite unconvincing. Consequently, I don't have any particularly good reason to trust you or your read on UCV, so I'm not going to follow you.

Lucky's contributions are completely vapid, his vote on UCV is opportunistic and he has no progression to support doing so--quite the opposite, in fact, considering your disagreement with him earlier in the day.

Perhaps you could explain your scumread on me then. The only thing I've heard you say on the matter so far is that I might be Lucky's partner because you scumread him and I was arguing with him earlier, and you expect scum to argue with scum early on. Feeble reasoning at best.

Why is my case on UCV unconvincing to you?

Why is Lucky's argument with me earlier in the day relevant to him voting UCV?

[Luca Blight]

Also, UCV's vote on me is based on the POV that BlackVoid replaced-out due to being scumread, which UCV seemingly now accepts is BS, yet he still continues to vote me?

[Luca Blight]

I also think it's dubious for LaserGuy to claim a 'null' read on UCV who has the highest post count in the game and has provided more AI information than arguably anyone else.

I don't believe a null read on UCV is acceptable in the circumstances - there is enough to base an educated read either way.

[Luca Blight]

You can put him on L-1

[Luca Blight]

There is no night phase so it doesn't matter if there is a quick-hammer.

[Luca Blight]

UCV is being lynched regardless now, so the best thing he can do if he's Town is just put out his reads in as much depth as possible before the inevitable happens.

If he's scum as I suspect then he can just keep on doing what he's doing.

[Luca Blight]

So you think your case on Lucky is stronger than mine is on UCV?

I'm not going to respond to each point as it will just become a pissing content. Yes, the initial case itself wasn't water-tight of course as it was early D1, but since I posted that I have firmer evidence which you briefly mentioned but largely ignored. You make out his ragequit was more town-indicative even though he quickly withdrew his request to replace-out, and then later tried to use it as a defence for himself which very much makes the whole thing look calculated. The fact he also then brought up the BlackVoid thing, to which he used to justify his vote on me, and as further reasoning for his defence even though the scenarios were as different as can be, only strengthens my case against him.

And Lucky didn't sheep my case without question - he initally refused, and only joined once he saw UCV's fake ragequit.

[Luca Blight]

Not conftown perhaps, but certainly I will be calling the shots on D2 if UCV flips red.

[Luca Blight]

Btw, I do find it amusing when people talk of themselves getting 'mislynched' as opposed to plain old 'lynched'.

It's like they're trying to subliminally convey they are Town.

[Luca Blight]

Just hammer him. We can hear from them on D2.

[Luca Blight]

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Luca Blight]

Stop being so scumtastic and I won't tunnel you.

[Luca Blight]

I only tunnel him when he's scum.

I'm not going to apologise for lynhing scum, and if I have a strong scumread I'm not going to suppress it to spare someone's feelings.

[Luca Blight]

I have ideas for who I want to target today, but I think the best play here is to sit back and observe for a bit before making my decision.

We need to see a lot more from those who took a backseat during D1.

[Luca Blight]

It has to be said that Cy looks pretty bad here. The only time he really talked about UCV was in this defence of him here:

Spoiler:

UC Voyager

122, 171, 191, 266 - A continuing theme of

'town should/shouldn't be doing this!'

. This is something UCV does when he is scum.

129 - Completely fake scumhunting. Looks contrived with one townread, one null read, one scum read, and no real reasoning for any of it.

141, 143,152, 155, 199 - Buddying me. As I explained before, he knows I know his meta well and that I tunnel on him once I catch on that he's scum, and he entered into this game with the plan of trying to appease me, no doubt about it.

146, 147, 174 - Fence-sitting. This is something I know he does as scum.

159 Asking if Impede's play is lurkscum; why can't he judge this for himself?

189 - non-committal and unexplained reads list where he gives scum leans but says he has no solid scum reads, but is apparently 'still hunting'.

222 - Responds to my vote on him for buddying with a further attempt at buddying, saying it's good I don't always consider those who side with me as being of the same alignment. He's also using emotion here to try and get me to change my mind.

Other than that, I have played with him many times now and can read this guy like a book. UCV is today's lynch - let's make it happen.

Unless anyone can give any good reason why we

shouldn't

lynch UCV today?

Statistics are irrelevant - just because you draw scum one game doesn't mean you're less likely to in the next.

I made a lot of points not involving meta - you haven't addressed them.

I kept an open mind and tried to consider you might be Town, but I just strongly believe you are scum this game. Am I supposed to suppress that feeling in case you get annoyed?

No. Being scumread is part of the game. Deal with it.

Hmm...tbf you only referenced 4 posts that had nothing to do with metaing. These were all the points that had only one post to back up the claim.

The first one made me raise an eyebrow was "no real reasoning for any of it". I'm sorry, but...

OK, so P.O.E time:

Town= Moz, Sesq, Lucca, Lucky, Zaraki, Comm

So scum in: archer, impede, cyber, cult, voyager, laser guy

thats four scum in 6 , good odds!

out of those 6, gun to head i would say scum team is: archer, impede, cult and voyager

Finally caught up. Here's where I'm at as far as reads. Not going to post a ton of rationale since I need to get back to work (on lunch right now), but most of it is in my previous posts from the past hour. Feel free to question anything in particular that doesn't jive and I'll explain.

Town

to

Null

to

Scum

:

Sesq, Moz

UCV*, Luca, Cy

----slight

Laser*, Comm

----leaning town

CoA*, Arch('s slot)*

----leaning scum

Lucky, Zaraki

*indicates a need for more content. Don't feel great about these reads.

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

Note for reference that Cy, having been widely townread early on, has done nothing since.

Fair

I'll be honest, I'm not too confident in my reads as of late so I wanted to wait things out for a bit.

However, I might as well post some reads just to be relevant again.

Town

Luca Blight
Impede
Laserguy
CultofAthena-Town/Null

Null

UC
Zulfy
Sesq

Scum

Lucky2u-Honestly putting him here
CommKnight
mozamis

I feel like a sheep since this is popular consensus. I work better when there's something I want to contradict.

Including myself and excluding UVC, there are four other people who gave little/literally no reasoning for their reads. I feel that UVC's meta has blinded you in the order of who you want to lynch, but these should be addressed as well down the line if we're reasoning that poor reads=a larger likelihood of being scum or not.

Obviously, I don't have the same meta experience as you do (well, none of which I'm allowed to speak of), but you are the only one who has had experience with him out of all of us, as far as I know. I cannot truely take you at your word regarding the meta. Your three posts that I have not addressed do hold some water, but I interpreted them differently. I saw it as more unsure and testing waters more than anything else. I am slightly convinced, but I don't want him lynched just yet. With how fast votes are going for him, for my best interest in using time wisely, I will abstain for now.

And it came at a very telling time - just after a few had joined me in voting UCV (he was L-3 at the time), so as scum he would have a motive here in trying to stem the flow.

The fact he has also generally been lurking throughout but suddenly popped up to make that defence makes it stand out all the more.

FOS cytheflyguy

[Luca Blight]

Comm also needs looking at today.

Spoiler:

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

This was the last post he made, and again it came at an interesting time as it was shortly after I started to apply pressure on UCV.

He makes a point of stating UCV as a town-lean, but without any actual explanation for this. He urges people to vote Lucky, perhaps directly looking to influence my vote here following my earlier argument with Lucky, but I was having none of it.

Looking at his site activity, Comm has since been online but has elected not to post.

On this matter, can we get a prod on Comm please @Mod.

[Luca Blight]

Basically what I'm doing here is creating a lynch pool for us to consider today. Next one up is

Athena

.

I've disliked Athena's posts throughout to be honest - it feels as though she is always looking at the game at an abstract level without really getting involved or posting anything of relevance. Furthermore, she pretty much avoided directly tackling the UCV issue and instead appeared to discreetly take the conversation in different directions. Her posts regarding cytheflyguy have also been interesting and should be looked into more if one of these two were to flip red.

By the way, here's a fresh take that's sure to get some debate started - there really isn't all that great of a reason for Luca to be as widely townread as he is.

First we have this post which comes when I'm pressing for more votes on UCV. It came out of the blue, and I'm wondering if the motivation behind it was to discredit my opinion on UCV.

In every post she makes after my vote on UCV she ignores the issue and tries to guide the conversation elsewhere, such as in 224, 227, 229, 230, 269 etc etc.

In 295, when I was clearly committed to lynching UCV she asks me what I think of Sesq, Moz and Zaraki - again it feels like she's trying to deflect my attention away from UCV, who she still hasn't mentioned at this point.

400 - Finally she says something about UCV (who is L-2 at this point) and it's a soft-defence of him.

419 - Explains that the people on the UCV wagon gives her pause. She has still offered no actual opinion on UCV herself by this point and this excuse feels like a cop-out. She then continues to talk about things unrelated to UCV.

472 - Congratulates me and says I'm conf Town now to her, possibly an early attempt to get in my good books ahead of D2.

[Luca Blight]

The other two in the lynch pool for today will be

LaserGuy

and

Zulfy

.

Zulfy has done literally nothing.

LaserGuy has generally pinged me all game. His posts seem too manurfactured for my liking, and his reads unnatural. His justification for townreading cy early on was weak. His theory that me and Lucky are scumbuddies likewise. He criticised my case on UCV yet had nothing better to offer for his preferred lynch candidate.

In some ways he's pretty similar to Athena and avoided commenting on UCV for a long time until called-out on it, and even then showed nothing but stuborness - he said UCV was null to him, yet seemed closed-minded to my POV. When going through why he disliked my case on UCV he basically skipped over the main part, and ignored my response when I pointed this out.

452 pinged me a bit as he wouldn't offer why he scumread me, knowing it would hold no water if UCV flipped scum. I feel like Town here would just share what they're feeling regardless, but scum would be aware of the upcoming flip and would be more reluctant to spill thoughts that are not going to help their cause.

So just to clarify, today we are lynching one of the following:

cytheflyguy
Zulfy
LaserGuy
Athena
Comm

[Luca Blight]

I generally prod at 72 hours. However I will check if that threshold has been met throughout the day.

72 hours seems a lot given the days are half the length in this game, but up to you.

[Luca Blight]

@Cy:

As I said previously, all you did was use half of one point to dismiss my entire case.

How is the timing NAI? UCV was being voted by multiple players and obviously whoever his buddies are will have been feeling the heat, so it's very likely someone would step in here to try and slow the wagon down.

It's all the more suspicious given how inactive you've been generally this game, while at times intentionally lurking, for you to suddenly pop up to hard-defend a null read of yours who turned out to be scum.

[Luca Blight]

As I said before, I plan to sit back a bit and observe today, but I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored. This is not to say everyone else is Town, but I have listed the five scummiest players in the game and that lynch pool is big enough without adding more.

Comm
Athena
Zulfy
cytheflyguy
LaserGuy

Choose who you want to lynch out of these five any make your points against them. I will then weigh up each argument before making my decision on who to lynch.

[Luca Blight]

For emphasis:

I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored.

[Luca Blight]

Comm attempting to fake a townslip?

It certainly reads fake to me.

[Luca Blight]

Read his post again.

[Luca Blight]

He seems to think we're still in D1, but the fact he made such a point of saying it's D1 reads fake.

I also don't see how it's possible he could make that post without reading anything that happened previously.

[Luca Blight]

Try reading the thread and then come back to me, Mr Oblivious.

[Luca Blight]

We're focusing on the scummiest five today - everyone else can wait for a different day.

Athena, thoughts on Comm's posts above?

[Luca Blight]

Basically what I'm doing here is creating a lynch pool for us to consider today. Next one up is

Athena

.

I've disliked Athena's posts throughout to be honest - it feels as though she is always looking at the game at an abstract level without really getting involved or posting anything of relevance.

What makes you read this as an alignment tell rather than just a personality trait or posting style? Also, in my defense, nobody ever engaged me at the same level that they engaged others - just look at my attempt to start a conversation get shut down.

Spoiler:

Actually, let's talk about that - where does your scumread on me come from?

no, lets focus on uv today. nice try, though.
your hopeless equivocation is noted.

It's possibly a play style, although choosing not to posts things of relevance would be a rather odd one.

Furthermore, she pretty much avoided directly tackling the UCV issue and instead appeared to discreetly take the conversation in different directions. Her posts regarding cytheflyguy have also been interesting and should be looked into more if one of these two were to flip red.

By the way, here's a fresh take that's sure to get some debate started - there really isn't all that great of a reason for Luca to be as widely townread as he is.

First we have this post which comes when I'm pressing for more votes on UCV. It came out of the blue, and I'm wondering if the motivation behind it was to discredit my opinion on UCV. 1

In every post she makes after my vote on UCV she ignores the issue and tries to guide the conversation elsewhere, such as in 224, 227, 229, 230, 269 etc etc. 2

In 295, when I was clearly committed to lynching UCV she asks me what I think of Sesq, Moz and Zaraki - again it feels like she's trying to deflect my attention away from UCV, who she still hasn't mentioned at this point. 3

400 - Finally she says something about UCV (who is L-2 at this point) and it's a soft-defence of him.

419 - Explains that the people on the UCV wagon gives her pause. She has still offered no actual opinion on UCV herself by this point and this excuse feels like a cop-out. She then continues to talk about things unrelated to UCV.

472 - Congratulates me and says I'm conf Town now to her, possibly an early attempt to get in my good books ahead of D2.

1 If I were scumbuddies with UCV I would have hopped on his wagon in a heartbeat. Defending him would be an exercise in futility in addition to drawing town focus to myself. Especially in a nightless setup, trying to get all the town credit possible is essential - hence why I'm so suspicious of the others on the wagon, among other reasons. What do you think my motivations for defending UCV would be as scum? It's incredibly doubtful that he makes it anywhere past day 3 anyways - if we're scumbuddies all I do is incriminate myself.

2 Responding to the rest of the game can hardly be called "guiding the conversation elsewhere" - the idea that one conversation needs to be so dominating seems counterproductive to me.

3 I was asking for your opinion. Do you truly believe that nearly every post I made last day phase was an attempt at preventing UC Voyager's lynch? I can understand if you scumread me, but don't start constructing narratives.

This is all WIFOM - the evidence is there in black and white but obviously you can twist it to suit any angle you want.

I think you wouldn't

'jump on his wagon in a heartbeat'

for two reasons - a) losing a scummate on D1 is a huge blow in the setup and b) your bussing might be in vain anyway as people would assume scum would bus, which is what you are doing now.

I don't get why it took you so long to even mention UCV, and the fact that you made a soft-defence at the same time looks bad on you. Yes you can talk about other stuff, but you literally were completely avoiding the entire UCV issue for most of D1, which was the main talking point of the game.

[Luca Blight]

Funny, that's the exact same response mozamis gave me. Is our collective attention span really such a limited resource that even considering cases on other players would be a derailment?

I wouldn't read someone confusing what day phase it is as a townslip anyways, so the idea that he intended it as one seems unlikely to me.

Comm seems oblivious to everything that's happened in this game - is this not the impression you got from his post?

He's seemingly unaware of UCV's lynch, as he thinks we're still in the first lynch-phase.

And as I said, our lynch pool is 5, which is big enough to be getting on with. I found scum on D1, therefore I'm calling the shots on D2 and this is how I want to do it.

[Luca Blight]

I don't have time to make a proper post right now, but I'm getting irritated at people questioning my lynch pool so this is the last I'll say on the matter.

5 is a big enough lynch pool - there is no point saying we should consider everyone when the evidence for those 5 is stronger than others. There is no chance of anyone outside of that lynch pool being lynched on D2, and given its half the length of a normal day I don't want time wasted unnecessarily.

Furthermore the lynch pool traps scum - I am all but confirmed town and I've chosen players who all have evidence making them look suspect, apart from Zulfy who simply hasn't posted. If there is even 1 scum in the pool then they will be feeling a little nervous, but my suspicion is there's at least two there, possibly even three, in which case I'm sure scum would try and kill all talk of this lynch pool.

This isn't to say people outside of the lynch pool shall never be considered again - they will be, based on further evidence for future days, but not today.

Now stop complaining and get on with it.

[Luca Blight]

Why is Athena town?

Incidentally, I found Athena's alt slip to be interesting; I know NSG (Athena's alt) has history with UCV too (she was completely and utterly fooled by his scum game in the Basketball game - ironically, she repeatedly saved him from being lynched by meta-defending him) so it's even more interesting that she had so little to say on UCV given the circumstances.

[Luca Blight]

After a little bit of thought, I've decided to take

Comm

and

Zulfy

out of today's lynch pool. The reason for Comm I will explain at a later time. Zulfy is starting to contribute a bit and his wagon is shit. Both need to bring a lot more to the table or they're going back on the list on D3, however.

Zaraki

will be going in the lynch pool. His D2 play has been less than inspiring, and his D1 play wasn't exactly great. He was also really awkward with his vote on UCV's wagon.

Therefore the lynch pool now consists of:

Athena
LaserGuy
Zaraki
cytheflyguy

[Luca Blight]

After a little bit of thought, I've decided to take Comm and Zulfy out of today's lynch pool. The reason for Comm I will explain at a later time. Zulfy is starting to contribute a bit and his wagon is shit. Both need to bring a lot more to the table

or they're going back on the list on D3

, however.

So you'll be attempting to control the lynch for the rest of the game?

Yes.

Why did you ignore my point about your alt-slip?

[Luca Blight]

I'm wondering why you avoided talking about UCV pretty much the entire day, given the meta arguments against him and your particular experience with his meta.

[Luca Blight]

Why didn't you have a lot to say, though? UCV was the player providing the most AI information and was the main topic of discussion, so why weren't you more curious about him?

And given how much you meta-defended him in the other game, I find it baffling that you would have so little interest in him this game, given the arguments I was using against him.

If you're Town then please help me understand this.

I also want to know your opinion on LaserGuy.

[Luca Blight]

Athena, please state who from the other lynch candidates (cy, LaserGuy, Zaraki) you most want to lynch, and who you least want to lynch.

[Luca Blight]

I think I'll add Impede to the lynch pool as well - I actually agree with a lot of LaserGuy's points against him, and there's other stuff pinging me which I'll get to later.

Wouldn't be surprised if both Laser and Impede are scum to be honest, for reasons I'll also get to later.

[Luca Blight]

Some explanations in general would be nice, but I'm particularly interested in your Impede and Athena town reads.

[Luca Blight]

Also Zaraki, you should be pushing for a LaserGuy lynch - Comm and Zulfy are being given another day to prove their worth. LaserGuy is the only one of the three who has enough AI information to justify a lynch today.

[Luca Blight]

What do you want me to address exactly? You're basically saying there is a possibility I could be scum - yes there is, but realistically? No.

I don't know what you're on about or who you're referring to with the 'downward spiral' thing. I've been busy this weekend and didn't actually register your post until just now.

In your latest post you seem to actually believe I am scum, is this a true reflection of your stance? It's actually amusing if you think

you

could get

me

lynched. You are a big-dick player, but don't delude yourself too much.

[Luca Blight]

I don't give two shits about your 'book' - you've shown you're basing opinions from a position of ignorance, so regardless of alignment your opinion isn't worth anything.

You think I'm considering Impede just because you voted him? Don't make me f*cking laugh. I was the very first in this game to voice suspicion of Impede and to link him and UCV as possible partners. As I said already, I didn't even see your post until you pointed it out just now because I was so busy over the weekend.

I am controlling today's lynch because I have earned the right to. Simple as that really. I already gave my reasons for the people on the list, so you can either address them directly or f*ck off, because all you're doing is dismissing them with a sweeping generalisation, and I've got not time for that shit.

[Luca Blight]

Your theory is completely unfounded, so even if I was scum I'm sure I wouldn't exactly be shaking with fear right now.

How does my play today make sense from a scum perspective? Yes, I've been controlling the lynch pool, but I don't see why I'd need to do this as scum as my opinion would hold enough sway as it is. My lynch pool is to direct town's focus so we're not pissing in every direction.

If I was scum I would have had many opportunities to justify easy mislynches already on the likes of cy, Athena, Zulfy and yourself, but I've done what I intended for D2 and have sat back and tried to look at things as objectively as possible.

If you're going to push the idea for being scum then you really need to find something substantial, otherwise you're pissing into the wind here.

[Luca Blight]

Anyway, the reason I decided to take Comm out of the lynch pool was because of this:

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

Wow... I kept thinking throughout Luca's posts like "Why is he ripping on me for calling this D1 and yet he's referring to D1 and 'losing a partner'???"

Then the last post or two on last page kinda signaled someone had been lynched. So I ISO'd Math.

The original post has not been updated and it was only in the past 24 hours. I kinda thought there'd be a bigger post or something to signify that the lynch had been made or at least the original post be updated to have flips... Or even a PM or something that there had been a lynch. I don't know, something more than a casual post with a flip and nothing updated outside of it.

So UC was in my town leans mostly because I've seen his play and it was similar to that of town!UC. I just ISO'd him to look at his "reads" and I say be careful about taking it to heart of flipping the two and expecting to be right. My guess? At least one-two of his buddies in his "scum reads" to intentionally throw town off upon his flip.

But now I see why Luca was thinking I was trying to town-slip. I was wondering what the fuck he was going on about D1. But it's "D2" now.

Will keep that in mind. Sorry flip came while I was at work and I was out with friends. Didn't want to delay people's fun. First post and a VC in the morning.

If this was Comm trying to gambit then I don't think the Mod would have responded to it, which makes me feel it perhaps was a genuine townslip.

Not enough to confirm Comm as Town (particularly when his play this game has been poor) but enough for me to leave him alone for today.

[Luca Blight]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

[Luca Blight]

Because I prefer a lynch on one of those three for now, and for other reasons I might get to later.

[Luca Blight]

I'm assuming LaserGuy will be wanting to lynch Impede.

If not then can you update us on your read, LaserGuy.

[Luca Blight]

As an example of the distinction, for now I'm treating Luca as conftown but I personally believe the lynch restriction was an incredibly scummy thing to do.

This is getting irritating now.

Just because you theoretically disagree with something doesn't make is scummy. To call it '

incredibly scummy'

means it's something scum would do and Town wouldn't do, which you have no evidence or rational logic to support. Does Town create lynch pools? Invariably they do. Is there anything inherently scummy about limiting the number of considered lynch candidates based on the evidence available? Of course there isn't - this is something everyone does to some degree, the difference is I'm being open about it because a) I'm the most trusted Townie and my opinion currently holds most influence, b) we have half the normal amount of RL days available so need to condense our scumhunting where possible and c) we already have a lot of information available in order to sort the players who are more likely to flip scum.

[Luca Blight]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

I responded to Laser's "case" against me in 511 in my 516. The issue kinda fell dead after that.

If you have concerns, it's much more town-beneficial to air them and question the individuals regarding their behavior than just throw out blanket lynch lists.

Worth noting that I also completely agree that there is 1-2 scum in this list.

Don't worry, I know how to play Mafia. I've just been too busy to make substantial posts of late so I've settled for posting the updated lynch pools until I have time to properly air my thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

I will be going through the three lynch candidates' ISO's and will condense my thoughts about them into one post for each.

LaserGuy

40, 51 etc - I didn't like the early townread for Cy, nor the reasoning for it. I'm wondering if LaserGuy still feels similarly about Cy?

167 - Shortly after saying so confidently Cy was Town, he then links him to being a possible scum partner with Zaraki. Gives me the feeling either LaserGuy decided he wants to keep his options open regarding Cy, or perhaps LaserGuy could be Zaraki's partner but wants others in the frame in case he's lynched. His Luca/Lucky theory is BS, and his point on Comm feels weird - he's posing a half-hearted question that he clearly has no intention of following up on. A lot of general, non-committal reads in this catch-up post in general which does nothing to inspire me.

214 - Explaining his Luca/Lucky theory. LaserGuy seems to disregard most of my posts up until this point, choosing instead to base a read on me solely on the Lucky interaction in such a reachy fashion. He says the debate wasn't genuine as we didn't follow up on Comm's catch-up post, but my issue was clearly with Lucky and never with Comm. It feels like a very lazy theory which he never really pursues fully or shows any sign of reconsidering. I feel like he uses this theory as a platform on which to sit throughout D1 so he doesn't have to take a hard stance on anyone else. Also, did LaserGuy follow up on his Comm question? No.

302 - He sometimes makes big wall posts like these that look busy, but really he's just asking passive question after passive question and not really doing a whole lot. Did he ever take that meta-dive on UCV as promised? There was no further mention of it. He quotes a couple of lines from me and Lucky which he says he doesn't believe (no reasoning given) to keep up the Luca/Lucky scumteam narrative. He votes Lucky based on f*ck all. I feel like his ongoing attack on Lucky/me could be a chainsaw defence of UCV.

307 - He changes his argument about me/Lucky here - he initally said he thought we were scumbuddies because we were arguing about Comm but then didn't follow up on Comm's catch-up post, meaning we weren't really interested in him. He's now saying he never thought I was bothered by Comm, but still thinks we're scum because we had a spurious argument.

426 - Tries to bait Athena into attacking me while saying he doesn't want to join the UCV wagon - I'm sure I don't need to explain why this looks bad. He also said he's happy with his vote where it is, even though, like I said at the time, his vote on Lucky was merely a vanity wagon that he seemed content just to sit on without purpose.

435 - An awkwardly-worded justification of not voting UCV. He's clearly defending UCV here, but at the same time leaving himself open to the option of bussing. His null read on UCV isn't natural at this point, given all the AI information UCV had provided. He criticises my case on UCV, but has no better to offer for his own lynch preference, Lucky.

452 - As I mentioned, this post pinged me because he's scumreading me yet withholds his reasons because he knows UCV will soon be lynched, which he admits would make me almost conf town. This is a resigned-looking post, where he is grudgingly coming to accept that he has to change his stance on me being scum. I feel like Town here would offer up their thoughts without being so aware of the potential upcoming lynch.

562 - Despite having a decent enough case on Impede, LaserGuy abandons it at the drop of a hat and jumps on the lurker wagon instead. Possible Impede/LaserGuy scumteam? Either way, a dubious move.

584 While on the surface LaserGuy appears to be making a valid point, why would we lynch a lurker when there are perfectly good lynch candidates available who have actual evidence against them? The lurker could become a good, pro-town player at some point, or he may not, but rushing such a lynch is ridiculous and scummy, in my opinion.

658 - LaserGuy votes Impede again after my question to him, but it doesn't feel like a lynch he really believes in as he had not mentioned Impede since 511, and his vote feels rather weak with the reasoning 'I prefer him to Zaraki'.

I feel no urgency to find scum in LaserGuy's play, and I feel he is likely to flip red.

[Luca Blight]

Another thing with LaserGuy - what happened to his scumread of Zaraki?

[Luca Blight]

I was hoping to wait for a bit of interaction between each ISO'ing, but no-one is posting so f*ck it.

VOTE: LaserGuy

I will revisit Zaraki and Impede Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

And who's the voice scum would have chosen to silence if they had a NK? Undeniably mine, which is why I must be the strongest voice for today.

I'm not shutting down or discrediting anyone. This argument in itself is more anti-town than my lynch pool ever was, so let it drop and talk about something relevant, please.

[Luca Blight]

I'm still undecided on Athena. I want a LaserGuy lynch today.

[Luca Blight]

Moz can be looked at Tomorrow.

Vote LaserGuy.

[Luca Blight]

Why do you trust Moz over me?

[Luca Blight]

Lucky, what are your thoughts on LaserGuy?

Do you agree/disagree with the points I made against him?

[Luca Blight]

Athena, you should join me in voting LaserGuy.

We can look at Moz Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Lucky, Athena isn't the only one to have undermined my 'conf town status'.

[Luca Blight]

What's the benefit of letting LaserGuy off the hook for free?

[Luca Blight]

What's the benefit of letting LaserGuy off the hook for free?

Who said anything about that? You're ignoring all of my points on mozamis today, with the point that they can be discussed tomorrow. Why wait until tomorrow to discuss them?

Because we can only lynch one person per day, and I'd rather not lose focus on what we have in front of us for something that can be dealt with at a later time.

[Luca Blight]

Lucky, what are your thoughts on LaserGuy?

Do you agree/disagree with the points I made against him?

I think some of your points can be conf bias like the assumption that he was baiting athena with 426 (and that point only works if Laser is scum and athena is not so it's taking an extra leap there). 435 is not scummy in and of itself, and you again make a larger than I'm comfortable leap in the assumption of motivation. The scummiest things he's done was to paint the interactions we had as some kind of scum theater and try to push a PL on Zulfy. For that alone I can leave him at lean scum. I'd rather have Athena though.

426 - I don't think that's too big a leap, but whether he was baiting Athena or not, he was certainly looking to undermine me at the point I was pushing for UCV's lynch, which looks bad whichever way you cut it.

435 also looks bad now we have the knowledge UCV is scum.

I believe there is more than a valid enough case to lynch LaserGuy, so let's get to it. Athena, like Moz, will be under consideration again Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

I agree that Athena's posting style is somewhat irritating at times, but I've played with her alt (NSG) before and that is generally her style.

LaserGuy is being lynched today. I need another day to figure out Athena.

[Luca Blight]

I can't justify voting Athena when there are three players I scumread more than her.

You also agree with my LaserGuy read so vote him with me, please.

[Luca Blight]

Impede, I have chosen to lynch LaserGuy today. Join the wagon, please.

[Luca Blight]

Why is my case against him shallow?

Saying we shouldn't lynch him because his actions were obvscum is just ridiculous to be honest.

[Luca Blight]

Going to try and make a case for either Moz or CoA tomorrow. ISO and potentially meta dive.

And yet in 681 you 'completely agreed' that there were 1-2 scum in my lynch pool of LaserGuy, Zaraki and yourself...

Funny how most people were generally fine with the lynch pool idea until I actually made my choice on who to lynch, and now it's being disregarded. There has been a lot of resistance to this wagon, and LaserGuy had generally flown under the radar for most this game which is odd given the evidence against him.

[Luca Blight]

Who has been blindly following me? I've encountered resistance both Yesterday with UCV and today with LaserGuy and have had to persevere to get people to join the wagon on both occasions.

Athena is certainly one of those who will be up for consideration Tomorrow. I still don't like Impede or Zaraki either.

[Luca Blight]

Let's get this lynch done so we can keep the game moving.

[Luca Blight]

Two more votes - let's get this hammered.

[Luca Blight]

@Mod

- please start handing out some prods.

[Luca Blight]

A decent post, but I feel like it's come too late to save you.

I wouldn't mind switching to someone like Impede or Zaraki, but I think it be would hard to get it over the line, such is the inactivity this game.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

I think LaserGuy is probably Town after that post to be honest.

I'm gonna choose someone else, but need to ponder exactly who. It will be someone out of Impede, Zaraki and Zulfy.

[Luca Blight]

I kind of want to lynch Zulfy as I don't see that slot producing anything this game. The only thing that gives me pause was the scummy-looking wagon against him, but that could be scum looking to bus while knowing the wagon would naturally die down when Zulfy started to post.

It's almost a coinflip between Zaraki and Impede who look equally scummy. I'll punt for the former.

VOTE: Zaraki

[Luca Blight]

Zaraki, That's not why you're scummy, although on second thoughts I think it'll be too hard to push your wagon through at your stage.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Impede

He's L-3, so we need three more votes to get this over the line.

[Luca Blight]

What if Laser flips Town, would it change how you feel about Athena?

[Luca Blight]

Why can't we lynch Impede?

At this stage I'm willing to settle on either Zaraki, Impede or Zulfy.

[Luca Blight]

Laser is more likely Town than any of those three.

Moz, you didn't answer if Laser flips town will it affect your read on Athena?

[Luca Blight]

His Sesq read came out of nowhere, but his reasoning isn't entirely nonsense.

Moz, if we lynch Laser today and he flips Town then Tomorrow you have to vote whoever I say. Agreed?

[Luca Blight]

His Sesq read came out of nowhere, but his reasoning isn't entirely nonsense.

Moz, if we lynch Laser today and he flips Town then Tomorrow you have to vote whoever I say. Agreed?

That's kind of demanding. Why are you so controlling of the lynches?

Because I'm the only one I can fully trust, and I'm the only one anyone else can mostly trust.

[Luca Blight]

I wouldn't just say we should lynch someone on a whim, I would investigate all the most likely players to flip scum and would myself be open to suggestions.

If you don't agree Moz then I'm not agreeing to Laser's lynch today as I think he's probably Town.

[Luca Blight]

You're townreading Zaraki for that post?

[Luca Blight]

That's kind of demanding. Why are you so controlling of the lynches?

arguing with the strongest read town player? Town.

It just makes me really uncomfortable doing it all as he commands. Yeah, he's our most town-read player but what if he's wrong? He has us all in his pocket, and there's always a faint glimmer of scum!Luca, no matter how much I doubt that. Plus, he's fallible too.

You were willing to follow my decision on Laser a short while ago...

[Luca Blight]

You're townreading Zaraki for that post?

No way in the world scum want to get on your bad side. You are strong tow n read, controlling the lynches. They get on your bad side, it could game over for them.
And more vague shade throwing from Cult lol

But Athena has argued with me today more than most...

[Luca Blight]

I can see my attempts to take this lynch in a new direction are getting me nowhere, so f*ck it.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: LaserGuy

L-1 again, I believe.

[Luca Blight]

It means 'with regards to'.

[Luca Blight]

Zaraki, Impede and Zulfy are going to be in the firing line Tomorrow.

Cy either needs to replace-out or get his act together.

Moz and Athena I'd prefer to leave for at least another day if possible.

[Luca Blight]

I do believe a couple of prods are in order.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Zaraki

I will make my case in a bit.

Tempted to lynch Zulfy if he doesn't do something constructive today, however.

[Luca Blight]

State your case for lynching Athena.

[Luca Blight]

Having to second-guess this lurker/half-arsed kind of playstyle has to be the worst thing in this game.

Do us all a favour and either play properly or replace-out.

[Luca Blight]

Why?

[Luca Blight]

I've actually got the sneaking suspicion Lucky might be scum after all. I will explain shortly.

[Luca Blight]

I will reassess my reads at some point, but I think I can get on board the Impede wagon for the meantime.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Impede

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Impede

This or CoA would be a good lynch today.

Why?

Sorry, I know I said I'd wait, but this is nagging.

Lucky never answered your question. Did you expect to get an answer? If you suspect him of being scum, why sheep his vote before he states his rationale? You must have your own rationale, right?

You say I sheeped his vote as if I haven't had my own suspicions of you this game...

[Luca Blight]

Lucky v Impede has the feeling of scum v scum to me.

I'm also fine with a Zaraki lynch today, however.

[Luca Blight]

Semi prod dodge for now, but from the looks of it,

it seems Luca's lynch pool was wrong this time.

I need to see what was the cause of it before making any accusations.

Also classes are over (whoop!) and I found my motivation for this game.

This is an ignorant comment.

Why would LaserGuy being town mean the whole lynch pool was wrong? You're also ignoring the fact that a) LaserGuy was a perfectly legitimate target as he admitted himself, and b) I was townreading Laser by the end of the day and wanted to switch the lynch away from him, which none of the other active posters were interested in doing.

[Luca Blight]

I don't know for sure they are scum arguing, it's just a feeling I got.

If it was solely up to me i'd probably be lynching Zaraki today, but I've lost the will to take control of the lynches now.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not convinced on Lucky either way, but I think he's a reasonable lynch option for today.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lucky

Some input from Athena would be nice.

[Luca Blight]

If everyone trusts that I am Town then we could just have me pick who we lynch so Mafia can't influence it?

Alternately we could follow LaserGuy's list.

[Luca Blight]

I pushed LaserGuy based on the evidence available, and then wanted to keep him alive based on new evidence.

You

are one of the ones who demanded LaserGuy be lynched even after his obvtown post at L-1, therefore his blood is on

your

hands, not mine.

Yes I can be wrong, but I've proven already my judgement is better than most here. Scum still have three members who can easily influence any lynch, therefore it seems to make perfect sense to me to put the lynch in my control.

[Luca Blight]

That was an obvtown post? It wasn't necessarily obv town. His blood is on both our hands, mine because I was on the wagon, and you because you incited the wagon.

From someone about to be lynched that post was as obvtown as it gets.

Who the hell cares? We all voted him. Town MLs. It's a reality of this game. It's a moot point unless you think someone actually demonstrated scum motive to facilitate a ML

Who is this directed at?

The point is my credibility to decide today's lynch, which you'd know if you bothered to read before posting.

[Luca Blight]

Zulfy and cy both three days without posting again. Surely these two should be force-replaced by now?

I'm struggling to motivate myself to play while there are such lurkers/absentees in the game.

[Luca Blight]

I think I'm just gonna avoid playing with Zulfy again regardless of alignment. Even if he is scum, simply not posting anything is no way to play the game.

[Luca Blight]

As for this lynch, I'm kind of in agreement with comm when he said don't lynch him, me or Athena. Probably add Moz to that list as well. Not convinced about Sesq at this point so I won't add her to the list.

[Luca Blight]

that's a leading question if ever I saw one...

I will respond to that shit later when I have time, but it feels like scum desperation to me.

[Luca Blight]

Unless you and Lucky are partners, or you're just scum who sees the walls closing in with less and less lynchable targets being available so you want to create some uncertainty.

[Luca Blight]

Looking into Lucky's ISO I found something that should be of interest. Btw this starts off as an ISO of Lucy but turns into something else.

I like posts 74 and 77. Both are good at defending a point and sticking to it. Although 78 does seem like comfbias, so does Luca's posts about RVS, so that kinda nulls each other out. Following the rest of the day 1 debate between Lucky and Luca, I think Lucky was in the right. Luca kinda comes across as backtracking with saying in 71 "What's to say he wasn't looking for reactions, though?" and defended that to make it feel like a rhetorical question. He then misread what Lucky was saying in 75, saying "You're saying he's scummy for apparently looking for reactions, when that is something that is commonly done in and around RVS." when Lucky clearly stated in post 63 "claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage". There is a clear misinterpretation of logic here. I mean, he tried to backtrack in in 82 where he said, "I am reading; that was what I meant by the word 'apparently'." When someone uses the word "apparently" in the same way Luca did, they mean it as a summary of what the other person is saying.

71 was not backtracking, it was a legitimate point. I don't see how 75 is me misreading what Lucky said.

Don't try and tell me what I meant or didn't mean - by 'apparently' I was referring to the fact it was a disputed point; not proven.

These are all pedantic points. I don't see what scum motivation you see behind these posts.

It only gets weirder from here: Luca also asks in 82 to "You have no evidence Comm wasn't really looking for reactions; it's pure conjecture.". Lucky then states how too early in the game it is for "evidence" in 87. Luca then responds with "Something to show his intentions are not as he claimed them to be." as a way to show evidence in 88. Lucky says, "Give me an actual example of this that could happen on Day 1." The punchline to all of this is, "You're asking for examples of valid reasoning? Jesus. I'll give you an example of how ridiculous your position is: Lucky and Comm are both scum - Lucky is bussing his partner. I have absolutely nothing to back this up with but it's D1 so f*ck it, I can say whatever the hell I want." (92) How is this reaction townlike? This goes on for the next page.

Why is this reaction not townlike? Lucky was being silly asking for such examples.

This is how I summarize what happened (as an extended tl;dr,

Disclaimer: Paraphrasing how I interpret what was said

): Lucky made an accusation towards Comm after Comm's interaction with me. Luca then counters with asking what if he was actually trying to fish for a reaction. Lucky then said "Well you can say "What if for a lot of things, that doesn't mean it's true". Luca then misinterpreted what Lucky said, asking "How is he scummy for apparently looking for a reaction". Lucky then told him that he wasn't reading properly and then re-explained what he said, which was consistent with what he's been saying, which was "I think it's bullshit that he said he was fishing for a reaction." Luca then says that Lucky "has no substance and lacks evidence", to which Lucky responds with "What evidence are you looking for?". Luca says, "Something to show his intentions are not as he claimed them to be." [Direct quote]. Lucky was like, "But give me an example of the evidence you're talking about." Luca then goes waaaay into defense mode, ignores Lucky's question, which he accused Lucky of doing the same thing earlier. Luca kept on backtracking and going into the defense. He went from "Show me evidence" to being unable to give a valid reasoning. Lucky stood his ground and kept a consistant argument.

So you agree with Lucky, fine, but I don't see how any of this makes me scum?

You're missing the point of my argument and I later explained (which you ignored) why I didn't answer Lucky's question - my point was specific, and his question was general; i.e. not relevant and deflecting away from the issue at hand.

I wasn't the only person who saw this. Impede sees it too in 137. Yeah he calls them AtE when they're not, but he's almost on the nose when he says, "All of his retorts are attacks", where most of them are.

And now you're gonna ignore where Impede later said he realised he was completely wrong about this?

I firmly believe that Luca got lucky on two accounts. He would be less town read if it wasn't for UCV. When he replaced into the game, Luca was ready to attack because he got meta. I'll admit, as I did earlier, that it was more legit then I originally gave him credit for, but after that, he was on the same grounding as us. That leaves us to the second way in which he got lucky: activity count. This is by far the least active game I've ever played in. I'm part of the problem as well. Luca is the most active person in the game. Because of this, he has more footing to appear more town then everyone else. Yeah, he looked hella town when LaserGuy was about to be lynched when he considered more options, but he knew it'd be next to impossible for the votes to be changed in such an inactive game. He said so himself in 756.

The only thing that truely makes him look town is how he got the UVC lynch and how he's trying to control the votes.

Yeah, I'm litterally making a case against the strongest townread that most people have, but this has always rubbed me the wrong way and I plan on defending it unless enough evidence proves that I'm wrong.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I'll address this too

@Impede

, if it was not for what happened to UVC, would you still regard Luca as such a high townread?

In fact, I'll open that to anyone. If it wasn't for what happened to UVC , would you still think of him as "comftown"?

I got lucky because UCV replaced into the game and I had a valid reason to bus him? Surely I'd be luckier not having such a valid reason to bus my partner so they might not actually immediately get lynched, and if they did later I'd still get credit for it?

You're ignoring all the scumhunting/positive things I've done in this game and have instead focused in on what is now a pretty irrelevant argument, raising pedantic points without relating how it comes from scum motivation. Your questions at the end are awful as I already said. I could just as well ask

'if Zulfy was actively trying to get UCV lynched would you townread him?'

It didn't happen and is thus meaningless. I could also ask

'If your aunt had balls, would she be your uncle?'

[Luca Blight]

Unless you and Lucky are partners, or you're just scum who sees the walls closing in with less and less lynchable targets being available so you want to create some uncertainty.

Fair. I can't disprove either of those without showing my role PM. That being said, I wanted to look more into Lucky's ISO, but I couldn't start without looking at the debate that the two of you had. Your arguments seemed very flawed. I don't like how you do that and try to become the leader of this game.

My argument was basically

'Comm claimed to do something that most people do during RVS (fish for reactions). Please produce something to show that he was lying about doing this'.

Lucky could not do so, therefore it was his argument that was flawed, not mine. Even if my argument

was

flawed, how would it make me scum? Can Town not have imperfect arguments?

Surely from my position as 'almost conftown' I should naturally become the leader of the Town? That's kind of how it works, or at least how it should. Again, why does this make me scum? Why would I invite such limelight on myself if I had something to hide?

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zulfy

He's not getting replaced any time soon so he needs to be lynched.

[Luca Blight]

I could go along with an Impede lynch, but it seems to me Zulfy will have to be lynched at some point regardless.

[Luca Blight]

I could go along with an Impede lynch, but it seems to me Zulfy will have to be lynched at some point regardless.

What's the benefit to doing it now?

Normally slots like that where you're not able to attain an educated read are best to get rid of before a MYLO situation arises.

[Luca Blight]

I would rather he was replaced but it's not going to happen. If I was mod I'd have probably force-replaced him for the combination of lack of activity plus lack of game related content when he does post.

[Luca Blight]

Sesq, Athena isn't being lynched today. Vote for someone else.

[Luca Blight]

That's the hammer.

[Luca Blight]

About to sleep so all I will say is this.

FOS Sesq

.

[Luca Blight]

And Zaraki.

[Luca Blight]

I was going to vote Sesq but also happy to lynch Lucky.

VOTE: Lucky

[Luca Blight]

This is the most obvious scum wagon I've ever seen. We are lynching the guy that has posted basically nothing? I get policy lynches and all but we can't find a single candidate better then this? Everyone else on Luca's lynch pool is so much better and more of a quality lynch then the guy that gets us nothing.

This post stands out in my mind now.

[Luca Blight]

Although a Sesq/Zaraki scumteam wouldn't surprise me.

Sesq is using an old scum tactic of heavily scumreading one player and using that to coast through the game so they don't have to take hard stances on anyone else. I've used this tactic as scum in the past myself.

Her posts about Zaraki, always dismissing him due apparently not remembering his posts, feel weird as well. It's like she's trying to distance herself from him while also having an excuse not to vote for him.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler: Sesq's quick change of opinion and obvbus

also why is zulfy scum?

All you keep doing is saying "Cult is scum, cult is scum". You never give any reasons, never really push it.
How about the other options, like Zaraki, Zulfy, Cyfly? Saying "unsure about everyone else" isn't good enough for a player of your calibre.

i've explained why. read my posts

i have said nothing about zaraki because i dont know where to place him. i cant tell if he is a very bland player or scum. dont see a lot of great arguments.

zulfy is lurker. whatever. stop pushing him so hard he could be useful later

cy. possibly scum. probably. if cult is, yes.

This is basically in order. 2 main points:

1) Sesq I am waffling on. On the one hand, she is tunnelling Cult. On the other, she is hardly blending in. Does scum Sesq really stand around shouting for someone else to be lynched?

2) I compeltely forgot about COMMkinght when making this list. Has he blended in to the background?

MOZ, LUCA, IMPEDE, CULT = TOWN

LUCKY PROB TOWN

SCUM IN:
SESQ, CYFLY, COMM, ZARAKI, ZULFY.

no

but

i think im convinced on zulfy

he never votes and is useless and we might as well get it out of the way

and maybe we get a scum lynch as well.

oh shit i didnt actually vote

VOTE: zulfy

thats l1. get cracking

[Luca Blight]

Also worth noting that before Sesq's 980 she had not mentioned Zulfy once in this game.

[Luca Blight]

Another two weird posts from Sesq than have stuck with me in this game:

Basically you're asking me how UCV's behaviour this game could come from a Town perspective?

If so, you should ask that question to whoever is against UCV's lynch.

no

you do it

Sesq is voting UCV here with me. Why is she expecting me to make a defence for UCV? This was never explained.

Luca, are you sure it isnt possible ucv misread shit? i wasnt there so i dont think i can really say, but if you think i have the room to i will investigate

This came while UCV was L-2. It's a soft defence, and doesn't makes sense given her position on the wagon. It feels really tentative.

Sesq was the first to join me on the UCV wagon but did nothing to progress it forward, and actually did more to cause doubt as I've displayed above.

[Luca Blight]

Lucky or Zaraki is being lynched today. Everyone should vote one or the other.

Votes on Sesq are also acceptable.

[Luca Blight]

Just lynch Lucky today.

[Luca Blight]

Somebody hammer. Let's keep this game flowing.

[Luca Blight]

Easy.

[Luca Blight]

Scum is probably either Zaraki or cy, but possibly Sesq.

Which way are we going?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Sesq

[Luca Blight]

How does Zaraki have any town cred?