Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[mutantdevle]

You've implied you think those at the top of the draft order potentially have the most powerful roles, and that scum will nk accordingly. You are only 5th in the lynch order yet you say if you claimed you would definitely draw the nk? How does that work?

Is it not logical for scum to get rid of a role they know exists rather than risk going after a role that may or may not be more beneficial to get rid of? I think most people would play it safe. And I never said I would DEFINITELY get NK, I just think there would be a good chance for it.

Also can you give a specific claim tex could have made that would be beneficial to town?

I've already done this twice. The most recent and most detailed of which takes little effort to scroll up and find. I feel like you are skim reading at this point. In post 161 open the spoiler; it's roughly halfway up the post.

Why do you think you needed to prompt her to fakeclaim, and why did you think your prompt would inspire her to do so, if she hadnt6already thought of it herself?

I never said I was

prompting

her to do so. I just pointed out that she

could

do so.

- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere

I appreciate that you want to keep me alive but if you are going to ignore me hereafter then you may as well just lynch me now. I wouldn't want to live in a game where my opinion holds no value.

Good thing mutant at most just pointed what was obvious and texcat didn't even listen.

First of all, what do you mean by textcat didn't even listen? I don't recall her ever having anything to listen to. I asked her a question which requires an answer (which she gave and I am satisfied with). I wasn't telling her to do anything so listening doesn't come into this.

But other than that, exactly! I am just pointing out obvious facts that anyone could figure out, yet I am being scrutinised as though I am revealing secrets to the mafia. I find it hard to believe that anyone could look past the fact that there is

no doubt

that textcat is a power role. And since she had the first choice of role she would have chosen the role she believes is most powerful. Hence she automatically becomes the most likely target for the first night kill. And surely, when you take all that into account, it's not such a bad idea to comfortably give her the

option

to role claim if

she

thinks it will benefit her situation.

No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.

No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.

What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.


I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.

I agree with this post aside from the idiot town part. Being discarded as simply an idiot is why I don’t really care about living on if my opinions are just going to be dubbed as idiocy. I’m not an idiot; I’ve just made a mistake.

Wait a minute? Only that point you don't agree with? Following your own logic would suggest that you claiming might be worthwhile, you also said that people would have picked roles that would fit their allignment in your eyes so I assume you would have done something to that extent.

Whilst I don't agree claiming in this sense is the best thing to do surely

you

do?

No no no no no no no. No. Now either you have not been reading my points properly or you are purposely twisting them. I am not writing things in italics to be fancy. At no point have I EVER said you should ALWAYS role claim. The number of times I have been having to point out that the role claim is

conditional

is just getting frustrating now. The keyword in your sentence is that it MIGHT be worthwhile, not WILL be. I have also mentioned that the verdict if whether that roleclaim would be a good thing is down to the opinion of the role owner and them alone since they are the only one to know their role. I know my role and I know that reclaiming at this point in the game would definitely not be beneficial. I don't know textcat's role. I was offering her the opportunity to role claim without looking scummy about it if SHE thought it was beneficial. When she said no that was the end of it. I have made no attempt to make her role claim.

I

did not want her to roleclaim I was asking if

she

wants to roleclaim. Why do so many people struggle to understand that? And yes, I do think some roles are more likely to be chosen as either alignment than others. But I'm not trying to get town credit here; I am way past that stage. There are no benefits to my role being known and it would be selfish of me to reveal it. Besides, when did I ever say my role was strictly town specific?

Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.

This can be read as 'Hey, we want to shoot you, you're not a PGO or anything, are you?' it seems to me now to be a bit blatant if from scum. Maybe just moronic.

Thank you for being the first person to actually change my opinion on something. I had not previously considered that this question would be asked from a scum point of view. I guess the same can be said for other roles such as commuter as well. I still think it would be more beneficial for town than it would be for scum to know this though.

However, elemwnts of mutant's later defence worry me a bit.

I'd appreciate if you could point out specific parts to specific posts you refer to with this but without re-reading I'd say the general explanation of that is that as time goes on I'm becoming a little more frustrated and feeling a little more hopeless towards my situation.



I'm going to bed now which means all further replies will be on my phone (so I can't reply to individual points). I'm also probably going to be asleep in 1-2 hours. I'd prefer it if you'd lynch me when I am online so that I can post my final words and reads before the end of the twilight period. Please don't be scummy and hammer me whilst I am asleep :(

[mutantdevle]

I'd just like to isolate this part of the above post since it is my main justification for asking textcat if she wants to roleclaim (and what was going through my head when I asked the question):

"I find it hard to believe that anyone could look past the fact that there is

no doubt

that textcat is a power role. And since she had the first choice of role she would have chosen the role she believes is most powerful. Hence she automatically becomes the most likely target for the first night kill. And surely, when you take all that into account, it's not such a bad idea to comfortably give her the

option

to role claim if

she

thinks it will benefit her situation."

Whether or not you believe that way of thinking is helpful is down to your own opinion.

[Creature]

I appreciate that you want to keep me alive but if you are going to ignore me hereafter then you may as well just lynch me now. I wouldn't want to live in a game where my opinion holds no value.

Not in the sense of ignoring everything you say...

[mutantdevle]

Oh okay :3 I apologise for misinterpreting that.

[wilky]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with Creatures post aswell tbh. Seems to be buddying up with Mutant a fair bit.

[mutantdevle]

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

[wilky]

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

[northsidegal]

i'm here, catching up plus a bit of commentary.

viomi's entrance is alright - it's mostly mechanical talk but there's nothing overtly awkward or scummy.
not really sure what to make of the whole chip/wilky interaction.
assemble's entrance is bad, but i don't really know how to read him.
i like lalendra's entrance - from what i can tell she didn't really avoid any of the current discussions or focus on one too much, when i think scum could've very easily done either. same with city's, she doesn't seem to be afraid of attention.

1. I don't think scum gets to talk before draft
2. Even if they did, they could have multiple people choose the same thing just to throw people like you off. It's WIFOM.

i really don't think this is likely. scum who choose the same number essentially give up their chances at a pr, and i'm not sure they can afford to do that. that's a lot of power to give town just for some wifom. obviously this won't be relevant for a while and it should probably never be the entire basis for any reads, but it should help when trying to poe the game.

even though i still think mutant should be today's lynch, i feel a little uncomfortable with the early l-1.

Also, do you all really think that scum would make such a big slip as this so early in the game? I've never seen it but obviously nothing I say bears any weight.

this really grabs my attention - i'll respond to this and more of that same post in a second.

[northsidegal]

Also, do you all really think that scum would make

such a big slip as this

so early in the game? I've never seen it but obviously nothing I say bears any weight.

why are you calling it a slip? the whole day you've been maintaining that what you've done isn't scummy at all and that it's just our interpretation of it. framing it as a slip implies that you recognize that it's scummy. to me, this suggests you don't actually believe what you're saying, but you recognize that backtracking at this point would be suicide. like, you can't have it both ways - you can't say that what you didn't wasn't scummy and also say that it was too scummy to be scum at the same time as a defense.

If I were in all your's situation I would have probably initially been on my wagon when the whole "GAH HE'S ROLEFISHING, MUST BE SCUM" thing started but

I'm sure I would have unvoted upon explanation only to revote again if no better candidate was found.

I have always valued a lynch over a no lynch so I am always one to vote on people I'm not even entirely sure are scum if time gets low. I even do that when it means lynching myself. If time gets low on D1 I can assure you I would help y'all to lynch me if time required but I just can't help but feel there are a lot of scum on my wagon when they are so prepared to end the day so early.

i really don't like this - you're trying to paint it that your defense is a perfect explanation of why what you've done is townie and everyone still on the wagon is just being irrational. like, what you did was scummy. what you're continuing to do is

still

scummy - nothing's changed.

[northsidegal]

What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.

not sure about for the game in general, but i have a theory as to why mutant's been playing the way he has - i'd still like him to claim to see if it holds any water.

I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.

agreed - there's still a lot of time left in the day, there's no real need to end it so early.

[Viomi]

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

Even if mutant were town, you don't think seeing people's opinions on him and how hard they push him etc. is productive?

[Viomi]

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

Even if mutant were town, you don't think seeing people's opinions on him and how hard they push him etc. is productive?

Like, 171 is reallllly sticking out to me uncomfortably.

[Viomi]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

[CityElectric]

sure.

intent

Nothing you've said so far indicates you having a scumread on mutant (or any reads at all). Why did you post this intent to hammer?

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

No time like the present to actually contribute some to that, instead of just pointing this out. I've asked you some questions on your motivation for your reads and actions, as have others. You not addressing any of those does not sit right with me. At this point, it looks to me like you're just throwing out reads and statements to make it look like you're scumhunting and contributing to the game, without actually providing anything.

[mutantdevle]

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.

why are you calling it a slip? the whole day you've been maintaining that what you've done isn't scummy at all and that it's just our interpretation of it. framing it as a slip implies that you recognize that it's scummy. to me, this suggests you don't actually believe what you're saying, but you recognize that backtracking at this point would be suicide. like, you can't have it both ways - you can't say that what you didn't wasn't scummy and also say that it was too scummy to be scum at the same time as a defense.

This point was made at the angle of y'all considering me to be scum. If

you

truly believe I am scum then what I have been referring to throughout as a mistake you consider a slip. If that is a the case, and you consider this to be a slip in the sense of role fishing, then surely you'd consider that blatant role fishing would be a stupid idea for scum to do. I don't consider my actions as a slip; they are a mistake. But 'too scummy to be scum' is a phrase that I've seen in a lot of games here and I don't get how no one would be applying that to my situation if they truly believe I am scum. Is it because I'm accepting what I've done as a mistake rather than rejecting what I've done altogether?

i really don't like this - you're trying to paint it that your defense is a perfect explanation of why what you've done is townie and everyone still on the wagon is just being irrational. like, what you did was scummy. what you're continuing to do is still scummy - nothing's changed.

Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did. What I do find slightly irrational is how most people seem to be rejecting the whole logic behind me asking the question and, for some people, it's seeming a little forced to me. A lot of people are reacting to what I say as though I am exposing secrets to scum when all I am doing is pointing out the obvious. It's obvious that textcat is a PR. It's obvious that she would have the freedom to choose the role she deems to be the best. It's obvious that this would make her a target for the first night kill. Stating that isn't me being scummy it's me pointing out the obvious. Is it really so hard to consider that there are a select few roles that may give benefits to the town or the role owner if they were known and therefore by giving them the chance to roleclaim if they wanted to do so?


This insistence that myself and Creature are a scum team gives me the confidence that my misslynch would not be in vain as at least it would give him town credit.

[wilky]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

I think that it would be one or the other. Creature buddying with Mutant seems to be more along the lines of if Mutant flips town he can try claim some town cred from it.

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.

This insistence that myself and Creature are a scum team gives me the confidence that my misslynch would not be in vain as at least it would give him town credit.

I don't have time just now to look and see if people did imply Creature was buddying you as i'm on my lunch break i'll look later. How I seem to recall it is they were more asking for reasons on why he was scum reading you. If you did imply that Creature was buddying you though why are you town reading him as in the bolded part in that quote? If you thought he was buddying you surely he'd be pinging your scumdar no?

Are you seriously suggesting that because you and creature were both on EE you can confidently town read one another because of that? Newsflash, it's not and i'd rather you found real reasons to read people I mean it's not like we are in RVS anymore so that reason won't slide with me.

[mutantdevle]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

I think that it would be one or the other. Creature buddying with Mutant seems to be more along the lines of if Mutant flips town he can try claim some town cred from it.

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.

This insistence that myself and Creature are a scum team gives me the confidence that my misslynch would not be in vain as at least it would give him town credit.

I don't have time just now to look and see if people did imply Creature was buddying you as i'm on my lunch break i'll look later. How I seem to recall it is they were more asking for reasons on why he was scum reading you. If you did imply that Creature was buddying you though why are you town reading him as in the bolded part in that quote? If you thought he was buddying you surely he'd be pinging your scumdar no?

Are you seriously suggesting that because you and creature were both on EE you can confidently town read one another because of that? Newsflash, it's not and i'd rather you found real reasons to read people I mean it's not like we are in RVS anymore so that reason won't slide with me.

I was never scum reading him so I don’t know what you’re on about there.

And I have stated that I came into this hoping not to town read Creature because the read would be biased. But since he is the only person properly defending me I’m inclined to think he’s on my side. I’ve also stated I’m aware of the possibility he could be defending me to gain town credit when I flip town. But I’m not going to be around long enough to make that decision.

[mutantdevle]

Nvm I read that wrong. You actually stated he was scum reading me rather than I was scum reading him. But tbh I don’t recall him ever scum reading me either.

[wilky]

Yeah my post above is supposed to read "asking for reasons on why he was town reading you".

Again, people defending you is not necessarily AI either. It could be brought forth in a case with evidence but lets not forget that when a town player is lynched everyone who voted them is not automatically scum.

[pisskop]

sure.

intent

Nothing you've said so far indicates you having a scumread on mutant (or any reads at all). Why did you post this intent to hammer?

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

No time like the present to actually contribute some to that, instead of just pointing this out. I've asked you some questions on your motivation for your reads and actions, as have others. You not addressing any of those does not sit right with me. At this point, it looks to me like you're just throwing out reads and statements to make it look like you're scumhunting and contributing to the game, without actually providing anything.

the answer should be self-evident. because i was asked to

[Creature]

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

Even if mutant were town, you don't think seeing people's opinions on him and how hard they push him etc. is productive?

It is, unless the whole day is about him and we forgot everywhere else.

I'd rather play the "What if mutant is town?" and be prepared if we end mislynching him.

[Creature]

No time like the present to actually contribute some to that, instead of just pointing this out. I've asked you some questions on your motivation for your reads and actions, as have others. You not addressing any of those does not sit right with me. At this point, it looks to me like you're just throwing out reads and statements to make it look like you're scumhunting and contributing to the game, without actually providing anything.

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here.

So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

[Creature]

I think that it would be one or the other. Creature buddying with Mutant seems to be more along the lines of if Mutant flips town he can try claim some town cred from it.

Or we could both be town with me genuinely believing he's town and trying to make sure the day isn't just a policy lynch only scum will benefit from.

[Creature]

Curiousity: Did you know that defending townreads is among town's objectives?

[Lalendra]

What I don't understand is that Mutant keeps going back to "I was giving her the option to roleclaim." Everyone has the option to roleclaim at any point in the game, she didn't need your permission to do it. And you misunderstood what I said about her being lynchbait. I didn't say that a fakeclaim would make her lynchbait; I said that whether she fakeclaims or claims or doesn't claim, SHE IS NOW LYNCHBAIT purely because you brought attention to her. Whether or not scum would have drawn that conclusion on their own is irrelevant; you didn't need to point it out to them. At best it's anti-town.