Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[CultOfAthena]

I didn't actually expect Luca to be so right.

and me

maybe cyfly. but impede, laser and cult need to be looked at.

"Guys, wait - don't forget about

my

town cred!"

cyfly is town.
mayeb impede is town, his posts today do look town.
i think cult nad laser are prob scum. they were SO reluctant to lynch UV, but didnt have any reasons, didnt really push anyone else.

You're not thinking this through, and if you are then it's on the most basic of levels. This is a nightless setup - scum have no ability to kill off the voices they do not want to be heard. Convincingly acting townie is far and away the most important thing for scum to do. With that in mind, certainly if I had foreknowledge of UCV's alignment I would set myself up for failure by playing in the manner in which I did. The fact that it doesn't even seem like you're considering the possibility of bussing gives me confidence in the idea that scum were definitely hard bussing UCV.

[CultOfAthena]

Sesq, you never answered my question from way back - why'd you vote me in 274 and why am I still scum?

VOTE: mozamis

[Luca Blight]

As I said before, I plan to sit back a bit and observe today, but I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored. This is not to say everyone else is Town, but I have listed the five scummiest players in the game and that lynch pool is big enough without adding more.

Comm
Athena
Zulfy
cytheflyguy
LaserGuy

Choose who you want to lynch out of these five any make your points against them. I will then weigh up each argument before making my decision on who to lynch.

[Luca Blight]

For emphasis:

I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored.

[CommKnight]

As I said before, I plan to sit back a bit and observe today, but I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored. This is not to say everyone else is Town, but I have listed the five scummiest players in the game and that lynch pool is big enough without adding more.

Comm
Athena
Zulfy
cytheflyguy
LaserGuy

Choose who you want to lynch out of these five any make your points against them. I will then weigh up each argument before making my decision on who to lynch.

^ Well I can agree with me being on that list because I haven't posted all that much. Not having a very strong D1 this game.

But the rest of that list? I legit only agree with Zulfy, the other 3 are shit to have and "not discuss anyone else"???

Yeah, fuck no.

VOTE: Luca

Your list is fake, your mention of not willing to interact with anything about anyone else? Nah, fuck that, this is day 1. Get lynched.

[Sesq]

Sesq, you never answered my question from way back - why'd you vote me in 274 and why am I still scum?

VOTE: mozamis

i was going to make a post saying "read the game" but then i closed the tab and couldnt be fucked to retype it.

read the game. its for reasons many others have laid out.

[Sesq]

comm...... bad vote. i see where you are coming from, but bad vote.

[Luca Blight]

Comm attempting to fake a townslip?

It certainly reads fake to me.

[Sesq]

what are you talking about

[Luca Blight]

Read his post again.

[Sesq]

i did after you posted that. DUH!

[Sesq]

that being 532

[Luca Blight]

He seems to think we're still in D1, but the fact he made such a point of saying it's D1 reads fake.

I also don't see how it's possible he could make that post without reading anything that happened previously.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: CommKnight

I'm so ready for this.

[CommKnight]

He seems to think we're still in D1, but the fact he made such a point of saying it's D1 reads fake.

I also don't see how it's possible he could make that post without reading anything that happened previously.

Are you trying to come off as investigative? Because it's really making you look worse for try-harding to build a fake case on me. For lynching purposes, I'll refer this lynch phase as Day 1 and the next lynch phase as Day 2. Don't like it? Too fucking bad. It's nothing to do with the idea of nights in the game. It's only lynch phases I'm talking about.

I'm not town-slipping, it's a way to break up lynches into phases we can talk about later.

@Sesq, I'm down for both a Lucky and a Luca lynch honestly. Their play is just terribad right now.

[Luca Blight]

Try reading the thread and then come back to me, Mr Oblivious.

[Lucky2u]

No one is seriously this oblivious.... he dug himself a hole and now he is doubling down.

More votes on Comm please!

[CultOfAthena]

For emphasis:

I want it to be known that any votes/points made against players not in the lynch pool will be ignored.

Sure, you can ignore them yourself if you want. You and anyone else should realize that all you're doing is giving scum a perfect excuse to ignore cases on them or points against them.

Sesq, you never answered my question from way back - why'd you vote me in 274 and why am I still scum?

VOTE: mozamis

i was going to make a post saying "read the game" but then i closed the tab and couldnt be fucked to retype it.

read the game. its for reasons many others have laid out.

No, I'm not asking those people - I'm asking

you

. Even more, nothing regarding UCV had happened when you made 274. What was your original reason for voting me?

[Luca Blight]

We're focusing on the scummiest five today - everyone else can wait for a different day.

Athena, thoughts on Comm's posts above?

[CultOfAthena]

Funny, that's the exact same response mozamis gave me. Is our collective attention span really such a limited resource that even considering cases on other players would be a derailment?

I wouldn't read someone confusing what day phase it is as a townslip anyways, so the idea that he intended it as one seems unlikely to me.

[CultOfAthena]

What's your reponse to 524 and 525?

[Luca Blight]

Basically what I'm doing here is creating a lynch pool for us to consider today. Next one up is

Athena

.

I've disliked Athena's posts throughout to be honest - it feels as though she is always looking at the game at an abstract level without really getting involved or posting anything of relevance.

What makes you read this as an alignment tell rather than just a personality trait or posting style? Also, in my defense, nobody ever engaged me at the same level that they engaged others - just look at my attempt to start a conversation get shut down.

Spoiler:

Actually, let's talk about that - where does your scumread on me come from?

no, lets focus on uv today. nice try, though.
your hopeless equivocation is noted.

It's possibly a play style, although choosing not to posts things of relevance would be a rather odd one.

Furthermore, she pretty much avoided directly tackling the UCV issue and instead appeared to discreetly take the conversation in different directions. Her posts regarding cytheflyguy have also been interesting and should be looked into more if one of these two were to flip red.

By the way, here's a fresh take that's sure to get some debate started - there really isn't all that great of a reason for Luca to be as widely townread as he is.

First we have this post which comes when I'm pressing for more votes on UCV. It came out of the blue, and I'm wondering if the motivation behind it was to discredit my opinion on UCV. 1

In every post she makes after my vote on UCV she ignores the issue and tries to guide the conversation elsewhere, such as in 224, 227, 229, 230, 269 etc etc. 2

In 295, when I was clearly committed to lynching UCV she asks me what I think of Sesq, Moz and Zaraki - again it feels like she's trying to deflect my attention away from UCV, who she still hasn't mentioned at this point. 3

400 - Finally she says something about UCV (who is L-2 at this point) and it's a soft-defence of him.

419 - Explains that the people on the UCV wagon gives her pause. She has still offered no actual opinion on UCV herself by this point and this excuse feels like a cop-out. She then continues to talk about things unrelated to UCV.

472 - Congratulates me and says I'm conf Town now to her, possibly an early attempt to get in my good books ahead of D2.

1 If I were scumbuddies with UCV I would have hopped on his wagon in a heartbeat. Defending him would be an exercise in futility in addition to drawing town focus to myself. Especially in a nightless setup, trying to get all the town credit possible is essential - hence why I'm so suspicious of the others on the wagon, among other reasons. What do you think my motivations for defending UCV would be as scum? It's incredibly doubtful that he makes it anywhere past day 3 anyways - if we're scumbuddies all I do is incriminate myself.

2 Responding to the rest of the game can hardly be called "guiding the conversation elsewhere" - the idea that one conversation needs to be so dominating seems counterproductive to me.

3 I was asking for your opinion. Do you truly believe that nearly every post I made last day phase was an attempt at preventing UC Voyager's lynch? I can understand if you scumread me, but don't start constructing narratives.

This is all WIFOM - the evidence is there in black and white but obviously you can twist it to suit any angle you want.

I think you wouldn't

'jump on his wagon in a heartbeat'

for two reasons - a) losing a scummate on D1 is a huge blow in the setup and b) your bussing might be in vain anyway as people would assume scum would bus, which is what you are doing now.

I don't get why it took you so long to even mention UCV, and the fact that you made a soft-defence at the same time looks bad on you. Yes you can talk about other stuff, but you literally were completely avoiding the entire UCV issue for most of D1, which was the main talking point of the game.

[Luca Blight]

Funny, that's the exact same response mozamis gave me. Is our collective attention span really such a limited resource that even considering cases on other players would be a derailment?

I wouldn't read someone confusing what day phase it is as a townslip anyways, so the idea that he intended it as one seems unlikely to me.

Comm seems oblivious to everything that's happened in this game - is this not the impression you got from his post?

He's seemingly unaware of UCV's lynch, as he thinks we're still in the first lynch-phase.

And as I said, our lynch pool is 5, which is big enough to be getting on with. I found scum on D1, therefore I'm calling the shots on D2 and this is how I want to do it.

[CultOfAthena]

It's possibly a play style, although choosing not to posts things of relevance would be a rather odd one.

The idea that I don't post anything of relevance is unsubstantiated. I'm sharing my opinions, asking questions and pointing out contradictions just the same as others. Anyone could get an good idea of where I'm at with my reads just by reading through my ISO. Personally, I think people probably say this because I condense my comments into a single response rather than making multiple posts. That or they're all scum trying to discredit me, but the first option sounds less paranoid.

This is all WIFOM - the evidence is there in black and white but obviously you can twist it to suit any angle you want.

I think you wouldn't

'jump on his wagon in a heartbeat'

for two reasons - a) losing a scummate on D1 is a huge blow in the setup and b) your bussing might be in vain anyway as people would assume scum would bus, which is what you are doing now.

I don't get why it took you so long to even mention UCV, and the fact that you made a soft-defence at the same time looks bad on you. Yes you can talk about other stuff, but you literally were completely avoiding the entire UCV issue for most of D1, which was the main talking point of the game.

I thought you might say this - the idea that I deliberately went against the optimal play just to make this point is a ridiculous one. Obviously it wasn't getting me townread day one and obviously it hasn't gotten me townread today. In no world does my play yesterday place me in a better position today than bussing would - if I had foreknowledge of UCV's alignment I never would have even considered it.

Why is losing a scummate D1 a huge blow? Especially when it's UCV, bussing a scummate D1 likely puts scum in a better position than a mislynch would.

My bussing might be in vain? I want you to consider two points on this one. The first is that even if people don't townread my bussing, it still places me in a better position than my play has placed me today. The second is that there is only one person in your lynch pool today who was on the UCV wagon.

[CultOfAthena]

Comm seems oblivious to everything that's happened in this game - is this not the impression you got from his post?

He's seemingly unaware of UCV's lynch, as he thinks we're still in the first lynch-phase.

Sure - what do you make of it?

And as I said, our lynch pool is 5, which is big enough to be getting on with. I found scum on D1, therefore I'm calling the shots on D2 and this is how I want to do it.

Smart people can make bad decisions. Someone who got one scum can be completely off on their reads. Even someone who looks like confirmed town could still be scum. The point I'm trying to make is that what you're doing is completely counterproductive, in the true sense of the word involving productivity. If people see those five people as the scummiest then discussion will naturally center around them. Attempting to stifle any discussion outside of that group doesn't "focus" things, it causes pointless strife and acts as a lazy excuse for avoiding discussion. In fact, attempting to control the discussion is probably one of the most anti-town actions I can think of in this setup - scum can't kill off the voices they don't want to be heard, but if they can attempt to shut down anything they're saying before it's even said then the disadvantage is null.

I have points I think are valid regarding people outside of your group - you're not going to stop me from making them. If you're going to argue against that or completely ignore them just on principle, consider what you're really accomplishing by doing so.