Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:31 pm

Post by mozamis »

In post 594, Lucky2u wrote:Dear future moz, if you invent a time machine, tell past moz not to try buddying me so hard.
it's nothing to do with buddying, i'm town and i think your town.
look at my other games if you want.
i do it so when i come back to the game i can ISO myself and remind myslef of the main "tells".
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:33 pm

Post by mozamis »

In post 598, Lucky2u wrote:not avoiding their own lynch.
exactly, thats what i meant, he is trying to survive, not find scum, hence he wants to know why i scum read him.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Post by Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez »

In post 602, mozamis wrote:
In post 598, Lucky2u wrote:not avoiding their own lynch.
exactly, thats what i meant, he is trying to survive, not find scum, hence he wants to know why i scum read him.
Mmm. Then your argument makes sense. Hunting is important. It sort of sets up a, I'm town and let's find scum objectivity to the rest of us. If he's not scumhunting then he likely knows who scum is.
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:44 pm

Post by Sesq »

In post 591, mozamis wrote:VOTE: unvote
the speed of this lynch is worrying.
and impede just "parking" that vote there, when zulfy cant be far from being lynched?
Migth even be Impede signalling to his scu buddies that he wants them to lynch Zulfy "I'm defintely gonna be on this wagon, lads"
no need to signal with daychat

also moz: you're wrong. you're really wrong about that. athena is obvscum but not for that reason.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:49 pm

Post by Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez »

In post 604, Sesq wrote:
In post 591, mozamis wrote:VOTE: unvote
the speed of this lynch is worrying.
and impede just "parking" that vote there, when zulfy cant be far from being lynched?
Migth even be Impede signalling to his scu buddies that he wants them to lynch Zulfy "I'm defintely gonna be on this wagon, lads"
no need to signal with daychat

also moz: you're wrong. you're really wrong about that. athena is obvscum but not for that reason.
Doesn't maf have a private daychat? I'm fairly certain they don't need to signal. Unless they're timing something. Which I doubt they are.
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:51 pm

Post by Sesq »

why are you quoting my post and rephrasing what i just said, but with more unnecessary words
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Post by Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez »

Sort asking moz, and I wasn't sure if that's what you were implying.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:05 pm

Post by mozamis »

ah ok forget they day chat, doesnt matter
sesq, if you think cult is scum vote for him. doesnt matter if we have different reasons.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:56 pm

Post by Impede »

In post 584, LaserGuy wrote:
In post 571, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 562, LaserGuy wrote:
We're going to have to deal with the slot sooner or later. Even if it does turn out to be a Town slot, it's not like they're doing anything to help out. There isn't really any harm in doing this.

VOTE: Zulfy
What's the need to deal with him today as opposed to in the future? Presumably if the lurking is actually due to real life reasons and not an in-game strategy, that should be cleared up sometime later. This seems uncharacteristically concise and nonanalytical, compared to my playerimage of you.
Remember, there is no night kills or power roles in this setup. Therefore the usual reasons for not wanting to lynch lurkers, or even marginally scummy players don't really exist here... we don't risk losing a strong townie voice or PR by lynching them. We just lose a slot that we can't read. It's likely that sooner or later, especially once we get down to only one or two scum left, we're probably just going to have to systematically lynch a couple of the players that people are fairly uncertain about, and that's fine. We have mislynches to spare, and with each scum we lynch, we can afford to lose another townie.

Yes, Zulfy could someday produce some great content that would make it worth keeping them around. Frankly, I think their content will need to be truly speculator to get them up to near-conftown status. Or they could continue to lurk and prod dodge for the foreseeable future. How much time is worth waiting for them to do something on the off-chance that they contribute something of value?
I like this lots. Agree to your points.

If Zulfy flips red, Laser is conftown in my book. Even if Zulfy's town, this seems towny to me
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:59 pm

Post by CommKnight »

I disagree with the Cult lynch, but I am interested in the flip either way. If I'm wrong, it'd clear up a lot of slots I'm unsure about. But if I'm right of Cult being town, then it'd bring them to more question.

Right now I'm fine with either Impede or Lucky. Both feel scummy as fuck.
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:00 pm

Post by Impede »

In post 591, mozamis wrote:VOTE: unvote
the speed of this lynch is worrying.
and impede just "parking" that vote there, when zulfy cant be far from being lynched?
Migth even be Impede signalling to his scu buddies that he wants them to lynch Zulfy "I'm defintely gonna be on this wagon, lads"
Mafia have daytalk bruh. Scum!Impede wouldn't need to "signal".
Still catching up on Zulfy's recent posts. I'll see if it's worth an unvote. I still like Cy tbh
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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:02 pm

Post by Impede »

In post 608, mozamis wrote:ah ok forget they day chat, doesnt matter
sesq, if you think cult is scum vote for him. doesnt matter if we have different reasons.
Lol sorry just read this.
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:05 pm

Post by Impede »

I'm leaving my vote on Zulfy.
@Zulfy: Why did you lurk so hard after replacing in? That's pretty atypical in my 3 games of experience :facepalm:
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:46 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 587, Zulfy wrote:hey what manner was that?
Not voting him.
Did you elaborate this point?
No, nobody seemed to take notice of it.
Regarding those last two replies:
While the punett square thing was odd that's not the sole contribution of Zaraki, don't know why you'd generalize like that.
At the time it was the most prevalent part of his ISO and the only thing I would think could be called gamesolving.
And that LAMIST accusation seems hollow. Are you sure you just don't have a problem with Mozamis's attitude?
I had quite obviously already stated reads, opinions and analyses at that point. Asking for them like that seemed like an attempt to look busy moreso than an actual request for information.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:00 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 592, mozamis wrote: Cults last few posts once again post very littel in content really, not any reads, just arguing and point scoring.
This is totally wrong and I'm no longer going to sit quiet while I get accused of this. The last
fifteen
or so posts have all been completely relevant game content - me asking Luca about his read on me, talking about the likelihood of bussing UCV, talking about Luca's "embargo", so on and so on. You're just attempting to discredit me - anyone actually reading my posts can clearly see that they're not devoid of content. People should take note of this - scum can't kill off the voices they don't want to hear but if they can silence them or discredit them then the effect is the same.
In post 596, mozamis wrote:
In post 573, CultOfAthena wrote:So do the reasons that you think I'm scum go beyond my relation to the UC Voyager lynch?
THIS IS A SCUM POST.
Scum are always desperate to know WHY people are voting for them, so they can "refute" the point. Town often dont really care why people are vitng for them, or will just tell the other person to STFU etc
Don't project your own playstyle onto me, and don't be so ignorant as to believe that townies could never play in the manner in which I do. The reason I ask people why they're scumreading me is to examine their
motivations
, the most reliable indicator of alignment that I've found outside of a cop investigation. It also has the effect of checking their consistency. Town will change their reads because their mind has been changed by something, scum will change their reads as convenient to them.
In post 597, mozamis wrote:i also several times have mentioned the fact that i thought Impede may have busssed.
Yes, there's one person you think may have bussed - the rest of your readslist matches up so closely with the UCV wagon such that that point doesn't really mean anything. If you really are town here, are you
seriously
not more suspicious of the people on the wagon than off? That's the first rule of vote count analysis: when scum is lynched day one, look on the wagon. Especially in a nightless setup where scum need all the town cred they can get and especially when that scum lynched is UC Voyager, the easiest lynch there is and the slot who's probably the least likely to make endgame, I'm going to think that scum bussed hard. I honestly wouldn't be surprised this game if all three remaining scum were on the wagon.
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:11 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 598, Lucky2u wrote: This goes well with my philosophy that town should make scum hunting their priority, not avoiding their own lynch.
I am scum hunting. Any townie ought to look through the game and see this for themselves rather than just accepting what other people say about my play.
In post 599, mozamis wrote:
In post 573, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, here's a nice little bit of irony that I found looking back through the game:
classic "legalistic, rhetoric" scum
no town motivation for this post, just leaves it hanging "oh, look how Moz contradicted himself". Shade throwing.
this guy is scum.

VOTE: cultofathena
No town motivation? I'm pointing out an inconsistency - like I've said, town act differently because their reads may have changed. Scum act differently because it's convenient to them. You can talk about the validity of the point that I made, but to imply that there's no town motivation is either ignorant or disingenuous. Either way, it's false.
In post 603, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez wrote:
In post 602, mozamis wrote:
In post 598, Lucky2u wrote:not avoiding their own lynch.
exactly, thats what i meant, he is trying to survive, not find scum, hence he wants to know why i scum read him.
Mmm. Then your argument makes sense. Hunting is important. It sort of sets up a, I'm town and let's find scum objectivity to the rest of us. If he's not scumhunting then he likely knows who scum is.
Don't take other people at their word about what my play is like - look at it for yourself and determine whether or not they're telling the truth. That goes for any factual comment someone makes about anyone else.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:28 pm

Post by Sesq »

In post 608, mozamis wrote:ah ok forget they day chat, doesnt matter
sesq, if you think cult is scum vote for him. doesnt matter if we have different reasons.
thought i was

VOTE: cultofathena

just in case
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:01 pm

Post by LaserGuy »

In post 485, Luca Blight wrote: So just to clarify, today we are lynching one of the following:

cytheflyguy
Zulfy
LaserGuy
Athena
Comm
My quick thoughts on these:

Zulfy: I'm fine calling this a policy lynch. He might be scum, he might not be. As I said in 584, he's not contributing to Town, so unless his content improves dramatically in the next little while, I don't see any reason to keep him around... the loss to Town is so minimal here there's no reason not to.

Athena: Town. I'm seriously baffled by Sesq and moz scumreading her.

Comm: Pretty much the same category as Zulfy. Contributions are sufficiently small that I would be fine lynching on policy if nothing better comes along. My gut is that Comm is more likely Town and Zulfy is more likely scum, so I'd prefer Zulfy given the choice.

cytheflyguy: I find most of his contribution to be decent enough, and I had similar reservations about Luca's case on UCV so I don't see this as necessarily scum-motivated. The deliberate lurking () probably pings me more than anything else, since it means we don't have a great progression on his thoughts and we can't say for sure if his silence between #324 and #478 was intentionally avoiding contributing or not. I'm not getting strong scum vibes from him, but I can see where the case for it might come from. I don't think I want to lynch him today.

So at this point, it'd probably be Zulfy > Comm > cy > Athena in order of preference for me. I have at least two players in mind that I think would be better candidates than Zulfy or any of the others, but I'll honor Luca's wishes and reserve judgment until later in the day because I like what he's trying to do here.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:17 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

Why is Athena town?

Incidentally, I found Athena's alt slip to be interesting; I know NSG (Athena's alt) has history with UCV too (she was completely and utterly fooled by his scum game in the Basketball game - ironically, she repeatedly saved him from being lynched by meta-defending him) so it's even more interesting that she had so little to say on UCV given the circumstances.
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:32 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

After a little bit of thought, I've decided to take
Comm
and
Zulfy
out of today's lynch pool. The reason for Comm I will explain at a later time. Zulfy is starting to contribute a bit and his wagon is shit. Both need to bring a lot more to the table or they're going back on the list on D3, however.

Zaraki
will be going in the lynch pool. His D2 play has been less than inspiring, and his D1 play wasn't exactly great. He was also really awkward with his vote on UCV's wagon.

Therefore the lynch pool now consists of:

Athena
LaserGuy
Zaraki
cytheflyguy
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:50 am

Post by MathBlade »

Votecount 2.15

Zulfy(2)
~ LaserGuy, Impede

CultOfAthena(2)
~ mozamis, Sesq
mozamis(1)
~ CultOfAthena
CommKnight(1)
~ Lucky2u


Not Voting (5): CommKnight, Zulfy, cytheflyguy, Luca Blight, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2017-12-07 23:39:00)


FLAVORThis is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.


Performed 26 calls in 41 seconds. With an average of 1.60738461538462 seconds per call.

Going through the thread now to see any bolded statements or off votes.

Edited to fix Vote Count Number

Edited a second time only to fix vote count number as I can't count/didn't update the autocounter *sigh*
Last edited by MathBlade on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:49 am

Post by CommKnight »

In post 475, MathBlade wrote:
Votecount 1.10

UC Voyager(7)
~ Luca Blight, Sesq, Lucky2u, mozamis, Impede, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez, LaserGuy
-- HAMMER
CommKnight(2)
~ cytheflyguy, Zulfy
mozamis(1)
~ CultOfAthena
Lucky2u(1)
~ CommKnight
Luca Blight(1)
~ UC Voyager


Not Voting (0):
You know, I haven't had time to dig into it too much, but I find ti funny that Luca's "list of 5" consists of everyone off of UC and Laser. Now that he removed me and Zulfy it now includes Zaraki, the other one at the end of the UCV wagon.

Now, why I find it interesting. In a NORMAL game with night kills, Luca and Sesq would be pretty much cleared here for being at the start of the wagon.

However, scum need to be super careful this game about which wagons they are on, bussing their partners will be required for enough town cred to survive. So in this particular game, even the people at the start of the wagon could be scum and they planned it out in their day-chat for town cred.

Moving on, if this were the case, it'd make sense to begin pushing away from the front of the wagon and focus on the back-end as well as those off the wagon.

It's actually a pretty good move, because all i have to go on here is the paranoia that scum are smart enough to figure such a strategy out and efficiently push it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if 1-2 scum actually is in Luca's list solely so he gets town cred for it. In this nightless game he really needs town cred to win. Because every kill requires a majority of town to lynch every single person, so if there were say... 3 hard-town in a block, they'd need to now mislynch everyone else without ever losing a person or they get fucked. But if they were to have 1-2 in that hard-town block, now they can lynch freely and throw suspicion outside of it to bring themselves to a LYLO position.

It's just a theory... but I think it's a possible scenario that should not be overlooked the entire game if it seems we're constantly mislynching people, look at those pushing the mislynches.

That being said... VOTE: Impede. He's just in that sweet spot on the wagon to be scum. Not too early, so could be hoping to avoid the lynch, but not too late to avoid being put under heavier suspicion.
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:19 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 616, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 598, Lucky2u wrote: This goes well with my philosophy that town should make scum hunting their priority, not avoiding their own lynch.
I am scum hunting. Any townie ought to look through the game and see this for themselves rather than just accepting what other people say about my play.
In post 599, mozamis wrote:
In post 573, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, here's a nice little bit of irony that I found looking back through the game:
classic "legalistic, rhetoric" scum
no town motivation for this post, just leaves it hanging "oh, look how Moz contradicted himself". Shade throwing.
this guy is scum.

VOTE: cultofathena
No town motivation? I'm pointing out an inconsistency - like I've said, town act differently because their reads may have changed. Scum act differently because it's convenient to them. You can talk about the validity of the point that I made, but to imply that there's no town motivation is either ignorant or disingenuous. Either way, it's false.
I'm sorry but I don't get how CoA is scum. I'll read back some more but I don't really buy it...

Also,

I don't like anyone on this new list? That being said, if I had to vote for someone out of there, then it would be Zaraki, but I'd have to read back again to see if I missed anything.
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 620, Luca Blight wrote:After a little bit of thought, I've decided to take Comm and Zulfy out of today's lynch pool. The reason for Comm I will explain at a later time. Zulfy is starting to contribute a bit and his wagon is shit. Both need to bring a lot more to the table
or they're going back on the list on D3
, however.
So you'll be attempting to control the lynch for the rest of the game?
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:20 am

Post by MathBlade »

Mod NotesFirst post updated including events.
Wagon data updated and includes how to pull it yourself.
JSON data updated and includes how to pull it yourself.
Time permitting (not required by any means) I'd love if you get a chance to verify your votes. I'll end up doing this post game anyway.
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