Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[MathBlade]

MOD NOTES

V/LA for CommKnight acknowledged. Due to the length of each day and regular prod cycle, I would like to encourage you to try to post at least during your V/LA period. Good luck with your school stuff.

[cytheflyguy]

I'm sorry I'm just not able to get into this game.

I may have to replace out if I can't get into it by tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

[CommKnight]

Well, I can say that if Luca is scum this game, he's very committed. Even as far as having a decent reason for removing me from the list that isn't some bullshit under pressure removal or pulled out of his ass.

I can also agree with that list of 3. I mean regardless of Luca's alignment. I don't believe all 3 of those are town at all. 1-2 scum in that list.

[Lucky2u]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

Did I miss the reason you removed Athena from this list?

[Luca Blight]

Because I prefer a lynch on one of those three for now, and for other reasons I might get to later.

[Luca Blight]

I'm assuming LaserGuy will be wanting to lynch Impede.

If not then can you update us on your read, LaserGuy.

[LaserGuy]

Why is Athena town?

I feel that the fact that she is following her own instincts and pursuing her own leads rather than just sticking with the plan is more likely to come from Town in this context. On balance I feel that scum are probably more likely to just go along with the plan because it's an easy way to look Townie and not draw attention to themselves without really needing to commit to anything. Taking a public stance against the general trajectory of Town's plans may be anti-Town, but it is anti-Town in an a stubbornly independent way that I usually associate with townies.

That aside, while it is true that she was reluctant to join the UCV wagon and found you scummy in D1, but I can hardly fault her for that since I did the same thing. None of her arguments on this point have really pinged me as a buddy interactions. Most of the remainder of her content is active and thoughtful. Her tone feels townie to me, and I can see her trying to work things out.

I'm assuming LaserGuy will be wanting to lynch Impede.

If not then can you update us on your read, LaserGuy.

Yes, I'd prefer Impede to Zaraki.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Impede

[mozamis]

Cuz I got my wallet stolen and had to take quick measures to replace my documents, which meant a lot of waiting in lines and not a lot of mafia playing.

In my exoerience, these excuses are ture? maybe I'ma gullible twat, but this has the ring of truth to me.
plus his more recen tposts have all seemed kinda noob town to me.
think we should take him out of lynch pool.
@ Lucca - why are you not considering Cult? I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[mozamis]

I am controlling today's lynch because I have earned the right to.

easy tiger. no one is "controlling" the days lynch. This is a team game...

[mozamis]

still think comm is town - particularly arguing the toss with Lucca like that - there is very little scum motivation for arguing with the most widely read town player. most scum try and blend in more than that.

[mozamis]

but I can hardly fault her for that since I did the same thing

prob why you are scum with her lol

[mozamis]

bad english - not why you are scum, but BECAUSE you are scum with Cult.

[mozamis]

the resisatnce to the cult wagon is very encouraging.

[mozamis]

it was both cult and laser who were very relucant to lynch UV - and with basically no reason. so keeping it simple they prob are scum.
Last scummer is tricky but never mind for now, 2 is good

[mozamis]

it's Moz, Lucca, Sesq, Comm, Lucky who are unlychable today for me.
Not that keen on Impede or Zulfy.
Zaraki might be the tricky one?
Cyfly, Laser and Cult prefered.

(guess that lynch is pretty much in order of most town to most scum at bottom).

[Sesq]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

put athena back in or ill fuckin die

also why is laser scum

[LaserGuy]

We're going to have to deal with the slot sooner or later. Even if it does turn out to be a Town slot, it's not like they're doing anything to help out. There isn't really any harm in doing this.

VOTE: Zulfy

What's the need to deal with him today as opposed to in the future? Presumably if the lurking is actually due to real life reasons and not an in-game strategy, that should be cleared up sometime later. This seems uncharacteristically concise and nonanalytical, compared to my playerimage of you.

Remember, there is no night kills or power roles in this setup. Therefore the usual reasons for not wanting to lynch lurkers, or even marginally scummy players don't really exist here... we don't risk losing a strong townie voice or PR by lynching them. We just lose a slot that we can't read. It's likely that sooner or later, especially once we get down to only one or two scum left, we're probably just going to have to systematically lynch a couple of the players that people are fairly uncertain about, and that's fine. We have mislynches to spare, and with each scum we lynch, we can afford to lose another townie.

Yes, Zulfy could someday produce some great content that would make it worth keeping them around. Frankly, I think their content will need to be truly speculator to get them up to near-conftown status. Or they could continue to lurk and prod dodge for the foreseeable future. How much time is worth waiting for them to do something on the off-chance that they contribute something of value?

@Athena,

why didn't you respond to me here?

Scum:
Zulfy
Commknight
Laserguy

Can you explain these reads?

Migth even be Impede signalling to his scu buddies that he wants them to lynch Zulfy "I'm defintely gonna be on this wagon, lads"

Noting moz Townslipping here.

[mozamis]

Not that keen on Impede or Zulfy.

*not that keen on LYNCHING impede or zulfy that should have been

[CultOfAthena]

still think comm is town - particularly arguing the toss with Lucca like that - there is very little scum motivation for arguing with the most widely read town player. most scum try and blend in more than that.

The irony is killing me.

it was both cult and laser who were very relucant to lynch UV - and with basically no reason. so keeping it simple they prob are scum.
Last scummer is tricky but never mind for now, 2 is good

You're not listening to anything that I'm saying, intentionally or not. Let me ask you a question - in this setup, why would scum be reluctant to lynch their scumbuddy?

[CultOfAthena]

We're going to have to deal with the slot sooner or later. Even if it does turn out to be a Town slot, it's not like they're doing anything to help out. There isn't really any harm in doing this.

VOTE: Zulfy

What's the need to deal with him today as opposed to in the future? Presumably if the lurking is actually due to real life reasons and not an in-game strategy, that should be cleared up sometime later. This seems uncharacteristically concise and nonanalytical, compared to my playerimage of you.

Remember, there is no night kills or power roles in this setup. Therefore the usual reasons for not wanting to lynch lurkers, or even marginally scummy players don't really exist here... we don't risk losing a strong townie voice or PR by lynching them. We just lose a slot that we can't read. It's likely that sooner or later, especially once we get down to only one or two scum left, we're probably just going to have to systematically lynch a couple of the players that people are fairly uncertain about, and that's fine. We have mislynches to spare, and with each scum we lynch, we can afford to lose another townie.

Yes, Zulfy could someday produce some great content that would make it worth keeping them around. Frankly, I think their content will need to be truly speculator to get them up to near-conftown status. Or they could continue to lurk and prod dodge for the foreseeable future. How much time is worth waiting for them to do something on the off-chance that they contribute something of value?

@Athena,

why didn't you respond to me here?

It didn't seem like you were looking for a response and Zulfy had already begun posting at the time. I still disagree, however, and so I'll illustrate my opinion for you.

For one, you're calling Zulfy a "lurker", which carries with it some connotation that isn't accurate in this situation. Zulfy hasn't been "active lurking", ie posting only to prod dodge - so far it appears like he was actually busy in real life and now has more time to dedicate towards the game. The way that his wagon popped up today was jumping the gun. I also take particular issue with your last sentence. How much time is worth waiting? How much is time worth at all? What do we lose of significance by waiting just a few days into the new day phase for someone who was (or at least, professed to be) busy in real life to catch up and begin producing content? Even further, what's with the expectation that Zulfy has to get himself to "near-conftown status"? It seems like you're placing expectations upon him that don't apply to anyone else, and I'm not sure why.

Unless you're still pushing Zulfy on the grounds of lurking, however, the point is moot.

[CultOfAthena]

@mozamis

VOTE: zulfy

Normally I would say "we should have done this day 1" but since we caught scum, I'll let you guys off!
but really, this guy has doen LITERALLY no scum hunting all game, less than when town lurk.
i've seen scum lurk like this many times.

obv, there is a chance of him being town and lurking, but if so, we have 1 mislynch available, yeah??

but, as i say this is mainly a genuine "this guy is scum" lynch

, with a twenty per cent PL Lurker lynch as well.

Cult is still my other top pick for scum.
Who the last scum is I'm less clear now.

What makes you think Zulfy is scum? That's a pretty detailed read for someone with two posts, total - seven, if you count his predecessor.

[LaserGuy]

For one, you're calling Zulfy a "lurker", which carries with it some connotation that isn't accurate in this situation. Zulfy hasn't been "active lurking", ie posting only to prod dodge - so far it appears like he was actually busy in real life and now has more time to dedicate towards the game. The way that his wagon popped up today was jumping the gun. I also take particular issue with your last sentence. How much time is worth waiting? How much is time worth at all? What do we lose of significance by waiting just a few days into the new day phase for someone who was (or at least, professed to be) busy in real life to catch up and begin producing content?

Even further, what's with the expectation that Zulfy has to get himself to "near-conftown status"? It seems like you're placing expectations upon him that don't apply to anyone else, and I'm not sure why.

Quite the contrary, I expect that anyone who is not basically conftown is going to get lynched before the end of the game (and I include myself in this count). I think it's fairly likely that sooner or later we're just going to have to start PoE lynching a bunch of people... I don't see any way around this if at least one scum is even marginally competent. We don't have any investigative PRs, and don't have any extra information as provided through the night kill. Conftown is the only thing we have that even remotely resembles a PR in this game, but it's a powerful one. If we get four conftown players at this point, we can win by literally just lynching every other player in the game.

At the time of posting my vote, Zulfy essentially no content, and Archwing before him had little enough. As I said earlier, policy lynching this game is very low risk for Town... we aren't trading a bad slot (lurker) for a good slot (somebody who gets NKed)... we're just losing a player with minimal content that is hard to read, and narrowing the number of potential scum candidates, something that we're very likely going to have to do anyway. This is actually why I like the scum pools that Luca has been setting up. If we can get to a point where we can pretty confidently say "there is one scum in these three players", then it is actually not a terrible play for Town just to lynch everyone in the pool even on the off-chance that all three are Town.

[CultOfAthena]

Quite the contrary, I expect that anyone who is not basically conftown is going to get lynched before the end of the game (and I include myself in this count). I think it's fairly likely that sooner or later we're just going to have to start PoE lynching a bunch of people... I don't see any way around this if at least one scum is even marginally competent. We don't have any investigative PRs, and don't have any extra information as provided through the night kill. Conftown is the only thing we have that even remotely resembles a PR in this game, but it's a powerful one. If we get four conftown players at this point, we can win by literally just lynching every other player in the game.

You place far too much confidence in the idea that people can even become "conftown" in this setup. I'm not sure whether you have any ulterior motive or not to push this idea, but either way it's an incredibly dangerous one. You shouldn't treat anybody as conftown in this setup - perhaps the

primary

goal that scum actually have this game is to insert themselves into that group, whereupon if we were to follow your strategy, scum would win guaranteed.

At the time of posting my vote, Zulfy essentially no content, and Archwing before him had little enough. As I said earlier, policy lynching this game is very low risk for Town... we aren't trading a bad slot (lurker) for a good slot (somebody who gets NKed)... we're just losing a player with minimal content that is hard to read, and narrowing the number of potential scum candidates, something that we're very likely going to have to do anyway. This is actually why I like the scum pools that Luca has been setting up. If we can get to a point where we can pretty confidently say "there is one scum in these three players", then it is actually not a terrible play for Town just to lynch everyone in the pool even on the off-chance that all three are Town.

Why would you rather lynch someone who you have no or little information on as compared to someone you have information on and you believe to be scum? Comparatively little information is gained from a lurker lynch as compared to a lynch on a more active player.

[LaserGuy]

Quite the contrary, I expect that anyone who is not basically conftown is going to get lynched before the end of the game (and I include myself in this count). I think it's fairly likely that sooner or later we're just going to have to start PoE lynching a bunch of people... I don't see any way around this if at least one scum is even marginally competent. We don't have any investigative PRs, and don't have any extra information as provided through the night kill. Conftown is the only thing we have that even remotely resembles a PR in this game, but it's a powerful one. If we get four conftown players at this point, we can win by literally just lynching every other player in the game.

You place far too much confidence in the idea that people can even become "conftown" in this setup. I'm not sure whether you have any ulterior motive or not to push this idea, but either way it's an incredibly dangerous one. You shouldn't treat anybody as conftown in this setup - perhaps the

primary

goal that scum actually have this game is to insert themselves into that group, whereupon if we were to follow your strategy, scum would win guaranteed.

What do you think the alternative is? If we have a choice between lynching player that is 90% likely to be town and another that is 40% likely to be town, the correct play is to lynch the one that is 40% likely to be town. The more players that we can put into this category, the more likely we are to win. Now sure, at this stage of the game, saying we have four or five conftown players is silly. We don't.

Why would you rather lynch someone who you have no or little information on as compared to someone you have information on and you believe to be scum? Comparatively little information is gained from a lurker lynch as compared to a lynch on a more active player.

Because a player that is active is likely to continue to be active. They will be easier to sort as the game goes on.