Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)

[Espeonage]

#pregame

Don't know about overseas but Pregame in Australia means the period where you get shitfaced before going out for the night.

[Espeonage]

Btw, I have already brought up to the Mod that they may not leave New England without modkilling themself unless they change rule 40.

[Espeonage]

I say we're on Pen Island.

[Espeonage]

Volleyballs on sticks?

[Espeonage]

P sure I broke (In a good way) your newbie game when you started.

[Espeonage]

GUYS THE GAME HASN'T STARTED YET

*YELLING OVER CONTENT*

[Espeonage]

Sorry, did the jovial not come through?

Apologies

[Espeonage]

I think you mean the Hot hot burny ejaculator.

[Espeonage]

"Blessed"

[Espeonage]

Bruh

[Espeonage]

my role on is not in the opening post

Discuss.

This is completely serious.

[Espeonage]

Ebwop take out on

[Espeonage]

Can we have an update on the confirms.

So who still hasn't.

Check the OP, I just updated it.

[Espeonage]

Hi hello, why have you ignored me?

[Espeonage]

Yeah but they aren't gonna talk about it.

[Espeonage]

What if I claimed mason. Would you care then?

[Espeonage]

I might.

And I haven't voted bc we don't need rvs. We have a claim to work with.

[Espeonage]

That's the one.

Let's start with a simple question.

Do you believe me?

[Espeonage]

I'm not a vanilla townie.

I have so far softclaimed three times and two alignments.

[Espeonage]

No idea mod won't tell me.

What part of this makes you think I'm scum.

I'd like you to pinpoint it for me.

[Espeonage]

I'm not a vanilla townie.

I have so far softclaimed three times and two alignments.

I remember when you had a moveset for Sneasel in your signature

I found this gem in an old game of mine I reread.

[Espeonage]

Interesting retraction.

Smart considering three people total have posted and you have accused already.

You still haven't answered my question.

[Espeonage]

Ok nvm. The answer was no.

Also don't lie. Only I'm allowed to do that.

[Espeonage]

So did you realise the scumread on me in 55 was bad bc no one is here or bc you realised I'd ask you about it and got scared?

You're allowed to be scared as town, I just want the truth.

[Espeonage]

And Imma go to bed.

Also don't lunch me until I've claimed.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahajahahahaha

[Espeonage]

See the thing is that isn't what you did.

I lied about going to sleep I was too eager to see what you said.

You lied about pushing a little and scumreading me.

This is badstuffs.

[Espeonage]

Is it bad to root for a Serial Killer appearing instead of a second mafia group? That seems more manageable to me. Plus, with the SK around, for balance purposes, the mafia have to be weaker by default.

Actually adding an SK is generally used to weaken a mafia team.

[Espeonage]

Going to disclaimer here.

I have not been shitposting.

[Espeonage]

To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.

And then yell at wingbro to engage with me

[Espeonage]

Don't worry about trying to read me though. I'm not getting to end game.

So please let me solve this before I die.

Pedit: cheers

[Espeonage]

Sick, now I know Espe's alignment AND role.

Tbh I haven't been hiding either. lol

[Espeonage]

To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.

And then yell at wingbro to engage with me

What is your point. I barely remember that game. Vedith won.

Being a dick is NAI.

Not that one. The one where I was Doc and broke the game and made Nacho vote himself.

[Espeonage]

my role on is not in the opening post

Discuss.

This is completely serious.

I don't understand this. The only role on the opening post is VT???

You evidently do understand. I was softclaiming. Which is where I go hey I'm not a VT.

[Espeonage]

Ok serious vote now seeing as there's enough people in thread for it to not have been circumstantial.

Vote: Archwing

The backtrack on the scumread on me and subsequent denial is a scum that got caught completely off guard, fucked up and then didn't want to admit they were wrong. I pushed really hard with my questioning to see if they were just confused or actually messed it up, but the constant lying and deflection and half answers leads me to believe it is scum.

I also don't like Jay, but that's really weak.

Uzi and Smart can go townpool for the moment.

[Espeonage]

Sounds good. Now, can you tell me what you think of Una?

Too early.

Needs to change avvie though.

[Espeonage]

Don't go talking about teams until we have a flip.

What makes you think Arch is town?

Pedit: Because I don't feel I can give a read with conviction off the current posts.

[Espeonage]

See Uzi's post has a mentality of wanting to not get the thread sidetracked which is good.

Uzi also didn't vote and elected to watch the exchange, also good.

[Espeonage]

That's the one.

Let's start with a simple question.

Do you believe me?

Espeon, you scummers get day chat or nah?

This is how a noob town accuses someone of being scum?

I usually only see this kind of tone from someone with experience.

[Espeonage]

OK, so some thoughts that have happened.

Thoughts on Espe:

Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game

so it could just be that they want to stir things up.

Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.

This is characteristically me.

I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.

However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?

[Espeonage]

Hey Jay.

Gonna go ahead and ruin your fun. Sorry.

The roleplay is cool and all for pregame. But it will make people have a harder time reading your posts. So I'd drop it. Mafia on this site tends to be a bit more serious and people like to look back on tone changes and word analysis (among many other things) when looking for both town and scum.

The roleplay will just make you harder to read for everyone.

[Espeonage]

OK, so some thoughts that have happened.

Thoughts on Espe:

Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game

so it could just be that they want to stir things up.

Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.

This is characteristically me.

I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.

However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?

You really think I should be taking a stance on you at this point?

Both Arch and Jay are my Scum reads at this point. I felt Jay took the RP a little too far, but that's pretty weak.

No, but the post reads like you did.

You accuse three people without really going for any of them.

[Espeonage]

hihi
VOTE: Something_Smart

This is bad. Please explain.

RVS is way past

[Espeonage]

I don't know if anyone else here clicks on the activity overview, but there's a huge margin between me and Arch - tied with the second most at 14 - and Espeonage at 41.

Holy fuck.

But now I'm more worried about the silent ones. Aristophanes, the guy with his name in green text, stood out the most with literally only one post at the beginning.

He's lurking and that's scary.

Dude it's been less than 24 hours and some people only come on once a day.

[Espeonage]

hihi
VOTE: Something_Smart

This is bad. Please explain.

RVS is way past

Disregard. Obvious they read game AFTER posting.

[Espeonage]

unvote, vote: quick

[Espeonage]

unvote, vote: quick

Pls fix

[Espeonage]

Una, Why, Dunker, Tchill, myself play with each other a lot, and Lil Uzi here is the one who’s always like “Ugh, why am I always stuck with these fools...”

I also know Aristo and Peregrine pretty damn well, and Something_Smart and I pulled off an epic Miller/cop gambit earlier this year. And Quick, you and I have some history.

So there’s my connections with people here, for future reference.

I came here to have fun and honestly feel so attacked right now.

P sure I played with you before most of this playerlist.

[Espeonage]

Boonskiies is his main account. Most of us that have been here for a while have a few accounts for a variety of reasons.

[Espeonage]

Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.

They want to keep their vote where it is.

So consider the wagon as having another person on it.

[Espeonage]

Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.

They want to keep their vote where it is.

So consider the wagon as having another person on it.

Ok so this was slightly wrong.

But I'll try and get them to vote.

Pedit: You're scummy man.Go after someone for good reasons and properly and we can review.

[Espeonage]

Aww man, if I knew I could get people to reread threads by threatening 2 votes on them I would have done it much sooner.

Ok so I reckon Umbreon was thinking "you fucked it mate" which while wrong is fair. So I don't really see any issues there. He's fine to have it ping him. The entire thing was "kinda sorta maybe not really but yeah" meant to.

And Jay is scummy independent of steup spec. He's new. I've seen this happen on my homesite when people are new. All g's there.

Jay is scummy bc of a fixation on SK and derailment, overexcitement, and trying to use flavour to play in to a game.

PEDIT:

I AM NOT A MASON BUT I MAY AS WELL BE

[Espeonage]

I had an ego before Boon was on site so he can sit back and chill.

[Espeonage]

Hey Jay,

Why can't we (Myself and Arch) be both be town?

[Espeonage]

Oh my lord my prayers have been answered.

unvote, vote: Archwing

[Espeonage]

Actually yeah you know what Arch has done everything under the sun to try and wriggle out of this.

If he thought it was shitposting why even interact? It obviously wasn't shitposting because I feel like I asked pointed questions.

I still maintain Post 55 is calling me scum.

Arch can have rope.

I was worried I'd get stuck tunnelling but I think I might have just nailed it seeing as others seem to agree.

Kinda worried that it's going to be the designated mislynch is all. It just seems too easy.

Arch/Jay/Quick for mafia.

However I find it a bit disconcerting that Ari came in, said he was excited to read and hasn't posted. It's a rough entry to the game for scum because they have to feign reactions to town playing outside the book, which takes time.

[Espeonage]

Fully serious post because I want to transition in to really getting this shit going and I want to be a real up in your face dick.

My actual role is known to I suspect somewhere between 3 and 6 players so I may as well open up. I thought about flat claiming neighbour with smart but it would just confuse people now.

I am a miller

I do not want to be around at lylo. I want to be either Vig killed N2-N4 or lynched day 2 or 3. We should not decide which. UNLESS people deign to keep me alive which I really kinda don't want for wifom. But I have a sneaky suspicion that experienced mafia will be trying to buddy me and keep me around idk.

I don't want my alignment to get in the way. I would like people to assume I am town now, flip me later. And actually pay attention.

I do want people to question my reads and rip my cases to shreds

I don't want people to waste time trying to push a lynch through on me before I feel solid on a last will and testament which will not be today

Can we all agree to this?

[Espeonage]

Its kinda a shame I have to die. Because I kinda want to throw a lynch at Jay and if he flips scum then we all know it's multiball.

I did the same slip all over Denmark mafia and only lost as scum in a coin flip lylo because I killed or discredited everyone that called me out on it and pushed that it was purely confirmation spec.

[Espeonage]

See the other thing is that sometimes people are scummy because they're scum.

Which is why I want people to rip at my cases throughout.

[Espeonage]

Espionage I have a question
Why do we even have to lynch you based on the claim? Why can’t we just judge you for your play and sort you like normally

Because I totally could be doing this as a gambit in a really deep wifom. I need to get really good reads. I need to die. I need the remaining town to lynch my reads.

Because a cop can't clear me.

[Espeonage]

I'm really surprised with the vehemence of my inner voice yelling at me that Ari is scum.

Are you going to take a stand? Or just go "ooooo maybe, idk"

@Jay: Why do you say you don't trust me then vote the wagon I provided the case for?

[Espeonage]

Ok, what is that reason?

[Espeonage]

Your read says myself,Quick, and Archwing.

I know I'm not mafia. I believe Quick also isn't mafia. I see the suspicious behaviour you were talking about before.

When I was role-playing and voted him in the early game, he instantly backed off of you for a bit. And while I think your sus, your not my top scumread that the moment, especially taking into account that with nearly 250 posts, you've gone and posted a whooping 60 times, given your scumlist, AND claimed a role and warned us of the stuff that role usually does.

Archwing, objectively,

has done so much less and is more suspicious

. So if we're doing a day 1 Lynch, I'd rather take out my most scumlean target since if I scumread them so hard day 1, my gut tells me there is no way they are town. You still have a chance to be town to me. He does not.

The bolded means absolutely nothing. They have a decent number of posts so without qualifying what you mean by "done less" it's not true. Elaborate on "more suspicious".

[Espeonage]

VOTE: Espe

Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.

Yeaaah...

Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.

Then kill me later. Let me have two day phases.

I am off the table for day 1.

[Espeonage]

Because a cop can't clear me.

Actually a cop kinda can clear you, just by existing...

You can put a miller in a game without a cop in Normals

[Espeonage]

Espe, I catch up before I take hard stances unless something is damning! Thus far these are just my thoughts

K, you're not caught up. Fair enough.

[Espeonage]

I had an ego before Boon was on site so he can sit back and chill.

I don’t think we’ve ever had a countering ego issue before. If anything, we’ll probably just get along.

Iffy on Tchill for that Dunker comment/easy Archwing vote.

nah we haven't.

[Espeonage]

Quick. The purpose of parking on a vanity wagon is? Also you are going to great lengths to make us know that you are very confident, as you keep reiterating it. Ideas on the protown-ness of this?

[Espeonage]

Sick, now I know Espe's alignment AND role.

Because a cop can't clear me.

Actually a cop kinda can clear you, just by existing...

Is this a wavering?

I kinda need to know sooner rather than later. Because if I am going to go full ham I need to know I get a day too to work something with whatever flip we get.

If I need to defend myself then I play normal and we don't get anywhere because my whole claiming business will muddle everything.

-------------------

Boon's insistence that this is the same as the other game seems contrived. Was there a call for death there? Was done in a way designed to lead the town? And was it an outright miller claim or was there playing around it to try and make stuff happen?

Unvote

I don't like my company. And it's becoming more evident that people don't see the backtrack I do.

Vote: Leaf

PEDIT: The point here is that he has talked about parking the vote this early in to the day.

[Espeonage]

Also,

@Something_Smart - Thoughts on that Miller claim?

VOTE: Espe

Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.

Yeaaah...

Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.

You are evidently looking for an angle off Smart.

What specifically makes you not like the claim.

And don't say you were joking. Because if you were joking you would have done what you did earlier about pretending to be in the scum PT.

[Espeonage]

Is this a wavering?

A what?

Boon's insistence that this is the same as the other game seems contrived. Was there a call for death there? Was done in a way designed to lead the town? And was it an outright miller claim or was there playing around it to try and make stuff happen?

I never agreed to die. The claim was not done in order to lead the town. I claimed outright, in my first post.

- As in, do you still claim to know my alignment and role.

- Noted.

[Espeonage]

To answer your question, both times they were outright Miller claims. Something_Smart in our scum PT game like pre game goes “i think I’m going to claim Miller” then he does, then Tchill’s Miller claim came from successfully dealing with a hardcore Boon town gambit (good job on that one, by the way).

So yeah, neither were used to force discussion, and both times I didn’t push for the lynch on said person the day of.

Also, I never insinuated that I was going along with lynching you today, so that’s a little sketchy of you to feel pressure in that sense.

I'm not trying to get rid of pressure. I'm trying to build some on you.

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

[Espeonage]

To answer your question, both times they were outright Miller claims. Something_Smart in our scum PT game like pre game goes “i think I’m going to claim Miller” then he does, then Tchill’s Miller claim came from successfully dealing with a hardcore Boon town gambit (good job on that one, by the way).

So yeah, neither were used to force discussion, and both times I didn’t push for the lynch on said person the day of.

Also, I never insinuated that I was going along with lynching you today, so that’s a little sketchy of you to feel pressure in that sense.

I'm not trying to get rid of pressure. I'm trying to build some on you.

But you did feel pressure, and that’s why you turned to create it on me. You targeted a very specific set of posts and reasoning, so that is a direct feeling of pressure towards you. Again, unneeded, but nevertheless, I digress.

More a threat to my gameplan.

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

Yep.

What is the net gain from town?

[Espeonage]

I don’t get your point on sifting through the fake/real. I very much do that.

As in, if you were after reactions you could have asked different people for a more useful response. If you were after analysis then you didn't follow it up.

[Espeonage]

What is the net gain from scum?

Looking to be asking poignant questions, when if fact you're not.

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

Yep.

What is the net gain from town?

They have Flavor Leaf to eventually game solve; what other net gain do they need?

Ok, so you would weaken the day play to make it look cooler when you pull it from the brink? Something liek that?

[Espeonage]

What is the net gain from scum?

Looking to be asking poignant questions, when if fact you're not.

I think everything is relevant. And it’s not like I’m not actively doing things, so...again, don’t get your point. I post a lot, and I believe every post matters, which I have stated in games before.

Ok I read your question as what is the motivation for scum to make that exact post that you made.

So I'm saying that the gain for scum from your post would be you establishing town cred by asking empty questions that you can pass off as jovial later.

[Espeonage]

I don’t get your point on sifting through the fake/real. I very much do that.

As in, if you were after reactions you could have asked different people for a more useful response. If you were after analysis then you didn't follow it up.

I disagree.

Everything I do is to test reactions

, at least as a side point. Anyone here can tell you that I am very much a reaction test player, even if I’m being serious with my pushes.

It may seem like I’m the defender in this scenario, but that is quite far from the case.

You’re being given the third degree Boon right now.

This helps.

But don't overstate yourself. :p

The higher the cliff you jump off to be cool, the more likely you uncooly injure yourself.

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

Yep.

What is the net gain from town?

They have Flavor Leaf to eventually game solve; what other net gain do they need?

Ok, so you would weaken the day play to make it look cooler when you pull it from the brink? Something liek that?

How does it weaken the day play? I believe I generally don’t hide my thoughts.

Disregarding a town player as unimportant 100% weakens day play.

[Espeonage]

What is the net gain from scum?

Looking to be asking poignant questions, when if fact you're not.

I think everything is relevant. And it’s not like I’m not actively doing things, so...again, don’t get your point. I post a lot, and I believe every post matters, which I have stated in games before.

Ok I read your question as what is the motivation for scum to make that exact post that you made.

So I'm saying that the gain for scum from your post would be you establishing town cred by asking empty questions that you can pass off as jovial later.

Why would asking an apparently poignant question establish town cred if it was jocular in sense?

it wouldn't. It would if it wasn't called out on and the excuse used to provide an explaination.

[Espeonage]

I don’t get your point on sifting through the fake/real. I very much do that.

As in, if you were after reactions you could have asked different people for a more useful response. If you were after analysis then you didn't follow it up.

I disagree.

Everything I do is to test reactions

, at least as a side point. Anyone here can tell you that I am very much a reaction test player, even if I’m being serious with my pushes.

It may seem like I’m the defender in this scenario, but that is quite far from the case.

You’re being given the third degree Boon right now.

This helps.

But don't overstate yourself. :p

The higher the cliff you jump off to be cool, the more likely you uncooly injure yourself.

I can jump off any cliff; helps when my wings have grown, and I can just start flying whenever.

God help the town that gets us as masons

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

Yep.

What is the net gain from town?

They have Flavor Leaf to eventually game solve; what other net gain do they need?

Ok, so you would weaken the day play to make it look cooler when you pull it from the brink? Something liek that?

How does it weaken the day play? I believe I generally don’t hide my thoughts.

Disregarding a town player as unimportant 100% weakens day play.

Where did I say anyone was unimportant? In fact, if anything, I feel it’s more important to watch you rather than pushing you off as unimportant, regardless of if your claim is true or not.

I feel like it was implied.

[Espeonage]

As a side note. Move over Egypt.

[Espeonage]

What is the net gain from scum?

Looking to be asking poignant questions, when if fact you're not.

I think everything is relevant. And it’s not like I’m not actively doing things, so...again, don’t get your point. I post a lot, and I believe every post matters, which I have stated in games before.

Ok I read your question as what is the motivation for scum to make that exact post that you made.

So I'm saying that the gain for scum from your post would be you establishing town cred by asking empty questions that you can pass off as jovial later.

Why would asking an apparently poignant question establish town cred if it was jocular in sense?

it wouldn't. It would if it wasn't called out on and the excuse used to provide an explaination.

Why would I use any other explanation? This is the second game I’ve played with SS, the first was that game, so I was obviously going to bring it up. (I modded a game he was in, so I have more familiarity with him than just one game), albeit not too much).

I'm going to drop it because we're just arguing theory here.

But basically what I am saying is that a post that is made that is sub optimal but intended to be game relevant and isn't owned as such is either a sign of misguided town, or scum. And generally if it is backed out of with an excuse or a deflection, it generally indicates it was from scum.

[Espeonage]

You play long enough you will see everything fakeclaimed and realclaimed, so you have to judge each individually by its merits.

So you're saying you asked Smart specifically just for the mention, rather than sift through others or actually use it as a line of questioning? Because it seems like smart took your question seriously enough to answer it with relevant information. And there's no follow up from you in response.

Pedit: @289

Yep.

What is the net gain from town?

They have Flavor Leaf to eventually game solve; what other net gain do they need?

Ok, so you would weaken the day play to make it look cooler when you pull it from the brink? Something liek that?

How does it weaken the day play? I believe I generally don’t hide my thoughts.

Disregarding a town player as unimportant 100% weakens day play.

Where did I say anyone was unimportant? In fact, if anything, I feel it’s more important to watch you rather than pushing you off as unimportant, regardless of if your claim is true or not.

I feel like it was implied.

Well, like I said, it was the opposite. You implied, I didn’t supply it.

And

move over

, what’s up? Getting too close to the fire that is Boon? We barely got to the second degree burn level.

It was a quote pyramid joke. -.-

Well yes I did read the implication, but you did also supply is post I got it off. So...

[Espeonage]

I disagree that it was suboptimal.

Ok this is the main point. Noted.

[Espeonage]

Also, why is misguided town bad right now? We’re a day into the game.

Its not bad. Ever. Regardless of what phase of the game it is.

[Espeonage]

How am I deflection or making an excuse? I’m giving a direct explanation, and owning up to what it was meant to be so there wasn’t any confusion?

I don’t believe I’m deflecting anything at all; i’m very much going into this conversations

I agree

[Espeonage]

:p

[Espeonage]

unvote

No more good targets right now. And I need to get some sleep tonight.

Probably will pick next person day after tomorrow. I have a party tomorrow.

[Espeonage]

Fully serious post because I want to transition in to really getting this shit going and I want to be a real up in your face dick.

[Espeonage]

I was having fun. Why ruin my fun with an Unvote?

It's almost 5am

[Espeonage]

Look, I haven’t voted anyone yet. That’s scummy. Someone push me for that.

No it isn't. Not in the context of this game.

[Espeonage]

Look, I haven’t voted anyone yet. That’s scummy. Someone push me for that.

No it isn't. Not in the context of this game.

I was testing the waters to see who would jump at it.

That's weak, even for you

[Espeonage]

Look, I haven’t voted anyone yet. That’s scummy. Someone push me for that.

No it isn't. Not in the context of this game.

I was testing the waters to see who would jump at it.

Look, I haven’t voted anyone yet. That’s scummy. Someone push me for that.

No it isn't. Not in the context of this game.

I was testing the waters to see who would jump at it.

That's weak, even for you

The true reaction test was the testing the waters line.

No it wasn't. Go shit in another game for a bit.

[Espeonage]

Every single one of my posts are reaction tests.

(Truest thing I’ve ever said....)

Pretty sure from a mafia philosophy standpoint this is universal

[Espeonage]

Also, I solved all my other games, and they’re finished now.

Have you tried therapeutic me time?

[Espeonage]

Also, I solved all my other games, and they’re finished now.

Have you tried therapeutic me time?

I thought mafiascum was my therapeutic me time?

Tsk tsk A circle jerk is not me time.

[Espeonage]

Okay this back-and-forth is gonna take me a bit of effort to understand.

If you're responding to the post before yours, you shouldn't be quoting anything (unless you're responding to a small part of a long post).

If you're responding to a post further back, you should just highlight the text and not quote the quote too. I'm sure you're both aware of this feature, but for the sake of the rest of us who have to read it, please do that.

There were two different debates happening.

[Espeonage]

THAT MAKES IT WORSE NOT BETTER

It is completely skippable.

[Espeonage]

Not sure why I thought town would do the smart thing and Lynch the Miller claim... That's literally why you claim Miller D1. Whatever.

No you claim Miller day 1 so you die before lylo.

[Espeonage]

I will vote myself tomorrow.

[Espeonage]

It does make sense. If I could pick the Lynch I would Lynch him d1. It's all about putting town in the best position to Lynch scum successfully.

So you think I'm scum?

[Espeonage]

the fact that you cant guarantee it is the WHOLE point.

You can't guarantee you can do it day 2 either after I die.

The point is that giving me a day gives you a strong scumhunter that needs to die a longer time to help.

[Espeonage]

vote: quick

Scum trying and failing to lead a town.

[Espeonage]

The Quick and Chill push for it to not just happen, but to happen quickly, has me worried.

Because it takes time away from town for what is known to be a misslynch. Which REALLY hurts town and makes day 2 effectively a day 1 with better odds.

[Espeonage]

I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.

[Espeonage]

In regards to my interactions with Flavour. I stopped scumreading him pretty quickly in to it.

And started townreading him with the easy transition in tone which he realised my grilling was over.

We talked ourselves in a corner so it may have been relief so it's not a hard townread, but a town lean.

I really need to see Ari's catchup and imput. I like smart atm.

I have no read on LUV which I'm not happy about.

I will feel much better about ever playing with chill again if he is mafia otherwise nothing he has said makes sense to come from someone with a head on their shoulders. Quick is dropping every 2010 scumtell in the book which is why I have my vote there.

Arch is whatever, I have a scum read but it's stale.

Una feels like the kind of townie I regularly missread because they do a lot of information which I find scummy even though I do it as town and understand the mentality so it's a teamread mentally and null on gut read.

I have suspended reading why to day 2.

[Espeonage]

lol I started that as a 1 line post and then ended up giving a readslist.

Sorry. I hate readlists.

[Espeonage]

I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.

Highly unlikely. This is a mini.

Go read his ISO

[Espeonage]

I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.

What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.

Bc he wouldn't shutup about it first thing in the game.

[Espeonage]

That feel when your a noob but everyone elsa around you is using meta strategies from having multiple games together.

If I was scum, I really would have been fucked.

If you Mainstays on this site could kindly use evidence from this game instead of previous experience with that player for your case, so someone such as myself can make an informed decision, that would be wonderful.

Town... For now.

UNVOTE:

I'll cherry pick my reasons for keeping ppl around as well. This player seems pleasant and is giving effort. I'm not lynching until day 3 at the least or we have enough evidence to believe they're scum. Effort is NAI but makes for a more enjoyable experience. So yeah I'm gonna play with jaydragonking for a bit.

This post should be grounds for a force replace imo

That is my place to judge, not yours.

[Espeonage]

It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.

For this to be true it requires you to think out only way of winning is through power roles and not day play.

And my day play ability is why I want to get to day 2 because I believe the entire point of the game is to focus on day play.

[Espeonage]

Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.

Evidence?

I've seen at least 4 games with miller claims and this view was never held by more than a few players, if it was even brought up at all. Even here it's a minority view.

I hold my reasoning ability above the norm, I guess. If you're looking for evidence why I should put such confidence in myself I would tell you I scored better than 93% of people in the Science portion of the ACT which involves interpretation, analysis, evaluation, reasoning, and problem solving. Just so it doesn't look like I am bragging tho, I scored better than only 45% of people in either Reading or English, I can't remember which.

I hold my reasoning ability above the norm too (as do I imagine most people on this site). But that's not what I meant; I wanted proof that this is in fact the standard because in my experience the standard way to deal with a miller is to judge them on play.

And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.

Once again, you can't make claims like this with no evidence.

There are 11 people that I will not end up lynching today. Clearly I can't be positive that they're ALL town. So why should I have to positive that ESPE is town in order to not lynch him?

Because the most reasonable play to make if you are not positive of Espe's alignment as Town is to lynch the miller claim for reasons stated by Chill which you haven't actually refuted, but just moved the goal posts. If you want to argue that not lynching Espe is a more correct process, you are going to have to argue why keeping Espe alive for a later time in the game is beneficial to Town given you can't be sure of Espe's alignment. I believe the only possible reasons you can say that Espe shouldn't be lynched at this point is because either there is a legit Scum slip (which you will be hard pressed to convince me of because as I said earlier, I don't believe in slips unless it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the game) or you think you are better at making associations through Espe's play with other players to the degree that you know for certain that the next lynch will not be on Town. That would also require you to lynch Scum D1 as well. Good luck arguing that one.

I don't think I'm the one who moved the goal posts. The aim of a mafia game is to lynch scum. This is an incontrovertible fact. Therefore, without a compelling reason to the contrary, we should lynch the player we think most likely to be scum. I am not positive of his alignment, but I townread him, and I believe we can get a better CHANCE of flipping scum lynching someone else. Arguing that you need certainty is dumb; this is not a game about certainty but about judgements and probabilities.

I want to lynch scum. Espe is not likely scum. Therefore, I don't want to lynch Espe. If I end up lynching town, then I was not WRONG about the probability of that person flipping scum, and mislynching someone else is NOT worse than mislynching Espe. Because whoever we would have lynched had we not lynched Espe would be considered the scummiest person in the town, and would be mislynched the next day.

Why are you even arguing that we should keep Espe around because it only makes it a little harder to solve the game? Why take a harder option at all? Again, you have to be certain that Espe is Town for even your own arguments to even have a barring on whether we keep Espe alive or not.

Because I think he is town. I don't have to be certain he is town; I just have to believe that his odds of flipping scum are lower than other players' odds.

Your presupposition relies on lack of context into what a miller claim is and why it is problematic for Town. You can't reduce it to "lynch the Scummiest player" because even you admit that Espe cannot see LyLo. What I want to know and what you still have not answered, is why is it beneficial for Town to delay lynching a slot that cannot see LyLo given that at the beginning of the game is when we have the least to go on so putting off lynching a miller claim has not only unpredictable results, but that Scum already know if Espe is Town or not which gives them a tactical advantage, so all Scum have to do is observe and react to what Town does in regards to lynching a miller claim rather than forcing a known lynch which forces Scum to have to play a more strategic game rather than a reactionary game rather which forces letting Espe live for an automatic unknown amount of time given that if we are having this conversation now then there is no guarantee that this conversation will not come up tomorrow since it's the fact that you default to leaving your options open rather than going with a strategy that is known to benefit Town in the long run because it eliminates the uncertainty in dealing with a slot that given the nature of the claimed role we will never have any way to confirm them as Town, only confirm them as Scum which makes it a +EV play to lynch Espe in all worlds short of something insane happening.

Hello. I'm right here. The reason you keep me around is because I am good at this game.

This was the whole point of me claiming.

I have even said this, multiple times.

I want to see day 2 so that I can out my expertise to use.

And this is the mean reason I think you're scum. I believe you to be scum because you are scared of me.

[Espeonage]

A) he can actually still be scum that is misguiding us B) Not confirm but give the role more credibility, a HUGE difference C) its much less likely to happen with a short term mindset.

A. This is why we flip me.
B. Gunsmith confirms me, rolecop confirms me, vanilla cop and Neapolitan half confirm me.

[Espeonage]

I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.

What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.

Bc he wouldn't shutup about it first thing in the game.

That completely ignores the playstyle of the slot.

Ok, convince me that hay hasn't scumslipped like I did in Denmark mafia

[Espeonage]

That feel when your a noob but everyone elsa around you is using meta strategies from having multiple games together.

If I was scum, I really would have been fucked.

If you Mainstays on this site could kindly use evidence from this game instead of previous experience with that player for your case, so someone such as myself can make an informed decision, that would be wonderful.

Town... For now.

UNVOTE:

I'll cherry pick my reasons for keeping ppl around as well. This player seems pleasant and is giving effort. I'm not lynching until day 3 at the least or we have enough evidence to believe they're scum. Effort is NAI but makes for a more enjoyable experience. So yeah I'm gonna play with jaydragonking for a bit.

This post should be grounds for a force replace imo

wanted to see what would come of it. you didnt dissapoint. if your "day play' is calling for people to be force replaced then it's definitely a style i havent seen before.

No, my day play is independent of not wanting to play with someone who has admitted they lynch based on personality and not scumreads.

[Espeonage]

It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.

For this to be true it requires you to think out only way of winning is through power roles and not day play.

And my day play ability is why I want to get to day 2 because I believe the entire point of the game is to focus on day play.

discrediting and undermining my play. nice. I'd lynch the best mafia player of all time if he hurt town more than he could help. No matter what you say or do you have to be lynched sooner than later due to your claim. sorry im not letting your gambit work unlike the rest of the player list. Nice to meet you though.

Your twisting of points is admirable. However.

I need you to explain how requiring my lynch day 1 bc I can't be confirmed by a cop doesn't mean you don't think town can win without a cop.

Because your vehemence is more than anyone should care unless they think the game is unwinnable with me here.

[Espeonage]

A) he can actually still be scum that is misguiding us B) Not confirm but give the role more credibility, a HUGE difference C) its much less likely to happen with a short term mindset.

A. This is why we flip me.
B. Gunsmith confirms me, rolecop confirms me, vanilla cop and Neapolitan half confirm me.

you know what confirms a miller? a flip.

So does the above. Stop acting like I am unconfirmable. We have proof in front of your face and you are ignoring it.

Both chill and quick have to be scum. Or I am never playing with either again. This is fucking ridiculous.

mid please replace me. It is becoming incredibly difficult to not argue about the intelligence of two slots in this game and I don't think I can keep playing without breaking site rules.

I will be back at post game.

[Espeonage]

The game should have a chance to have someone give reads that aren't clouded by anger.

After this slot flips. You need to lynch quick and chill. Because I don't think they are stupid enough to be taking these stances as town.

unvote, vote:espe

[Espeonage]

you *clap* don't *clap* lynch *clap* miller *clap* claims *clap* day *clap* one *clap*

ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE FUCKING GOOD AT THE GAME.

Also there is no world where a competent town doesn't lynch Chill day 2 because he was flat out IGNORING SHIT to get a lynch through. That is never a town thing to do.

Quick is just a fucking idiot and I'm currently trying to work out why the foe list doesn't extend to sitechat.

[Espeonage]

And jay, you're lovely, fun, and the roleplay is endearing.

But in a game isn't really the place for it.

[Espeonage]

It was a really good setup though. Well thought out by assemble.

[Espeonage]

Hungover Flavor here, saying good game all!

Unah, Dunker, and Something Smart....good work. You had us pegged.

In response to competent town lynches Tchill and doesn’t lynch miller Day 1, to be fair, both times all three scum were pushing those notions.

Great to team with Chilly and Aristo. I think we had great synergy and it allowed us to be crazy.

Also, I claimed scum over three times and got away with it.

I noticed as soon as I died that the fact that I didn't townread you after the back and forth should have told me you were scum. I said as much in the dead pts.

But yeah, to the town. You should have quicklynched Chill day 2. Zero questions asked. Not doing so is an insult to either chill's intelligence or your own.

[Espeonage]

Lol