Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)

[Tchill13]

yeah idk what you're talking about flavor.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Lil uzi

What up ppl.

[Tchill13]

Depends if you're the SK or no jaydragonking

[Tchill13]

boon can have a slight slight slight scumlean for not townreading me yet

seriously wouldn't expect anything else from dunker lol

[Tchill13]

Ok serious vote now seeing as there's enough people in thread for it to not have been circumstantial.

Vote: Archwing

The backtrack on the scumread on me and subsequent denial is a scum that got caught completely off guard, fucked up and then didn't want to admit they were wrong. I pushed really hard with my questioning to see if they were just confused or actually messed it up, but the constant lying and deflection and half answers leads me to believe it is scum.

I also don't like Jay, but that's really weak.

Uzi and Smart can go townpool for the moment.

It was never a scumread. It was a push on you since we were both online at the same time, and I was having some fun with what you were saying. You softclaimed 3 different things, one of which was "maybe' mafia. I honestly never had a legitimate scumread on you. You can interpret that as lying, but I said what I said as a replacement to RVS. I admitted that I thought you aren't scum, which I still stand by. I don't really understand what half answers and deflection you're talking about, but let me clear this up for you:

I am not scum.
I do not think you are scum.
If I have not answered anything else you want me to, let me know.

As for the rest of you...

scumleans on Una and Whymaf. (serious)
null on everyone else until they post more. slight townlean on elsa.
smart is town.

fake as hell. lots of effort early. Big post for town points...

VOTE: archwing

[Tchill13]

i think its cool that espionage thinks he can solve the game super early. Now i have two things to be excited about... The player lists and the black hole that will form from the combined egos of espionage and flavor leaf being so dense it collapses our very own sun that keeps us warm... should be fun to watch.

[Tchill13]

Fully serious post because I want to transition in to really getting this shit going and I want to be a real up in your face dick.

My actual role is known to I suspect somewhere between 3 and 6 players so I may as well open up. I thought about flat claiming neighbour with smart but it would just confuse people now.

I am a miller

I do not want to be around at lylo. I want to be either Vig killed N2-N4 or lynched day 2 or 3. We should not decide which. UNLESS people deign to keep me alive which I really kinda don't want for wifom. But I have a sneaky suspicion that experienced mafia will be trying to buddy me and keep me around idk.

I don't want my alignment to get in the way. I would like people to assume I am town now, flip me later. And actually pay attention.

I do want people to question my reads and rip my cases to shreds

I don't want people to waste time trying to push a lynch through on me before I feel solid on a last will and testament which will not be today

Can we all agree to this?

catching up rn. Why shouldn't espe be the first lynch? the longer he's around the longer we waste time because he can't get to lylo as a miller.

[Tchill13]

- As in, do you still claim to know my alignment and role.

Since it's now outright stated, yes, I fully believe you to be a town miller.

@Quick - If you are a vig again this game, shoot the Miller.

lol

[Tchill13]

ok i'm not really worried about flavor rn. His game is easily sorted after a few day phases mainly because he's too good as town to be consistently wrong. Espeonage i have no familiarity with. His miller claim has no long term benefit as scum.... Unless scum have an RB and he banks on getting Vig'd instead of lynched. then all of a sudden the miller is in lylo because the vig didn't work... so yeah with my experience on site Miller is lynched day 1. disappointing because i already felt the gravity caving in on itself but that back and forth is confusing.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: espeonage

[Tchill13]

here i am warming up for the fight that's about to fall upon us. (Rocky training compilation begins)

[Tchill13]

thx for the compliment on the avi jaydragonking. favorite GoT character. anyways please vote espeonage with me.

[Tchill13]

miller is anti town is it not? there is possible long term scum play motivation here which i already explained. A vig shot doesn't need to be wasted on a miller. Miller should be lynched day 1. As long as espeonage is in the game we will need to kill him "at a later date" which will only keep town from progressing to the point they need to be to win the game.

[Tchill13]

lol uzi.

[Tchill13]

Not sure why I thought town would do the smart thing and Lynch the Miller claim... That's literally why you claim Miller D1. Whatever.

[Tchill13]

Not sure why I thought town would do the smart thing and Lynch the Miller claim... That's literally why you claim Miller D1. Whatever.

No you claim Miller day 1 so you die before lylo.

Yeah and if you have a list of players to kill that don't include scum you kill them as fast as possible to direct the attention towards lynching scum. As long as you're in the game it's an extra kill we'll have to make before we can completely focus on scum hunting. Besides you could be fake claiming. Saying you should be vig'd. Then getting to lylo by having a scum protective. So town waste vig shots and never lynches you. That's the Long term scum motivation in your claim.

[Tchill13]

Idk how you can disagree with my paragraph but I'm sure ppl will find a way.

[Tchill13]

dunk how exactly would he vote someone else and it not seem that way?

[Tchill13]

look i really dont care whats scummy and what isnt rn the miller claim is the lynch and we can get back to this after that lynch.

[Tchill13]

i swear if we sit here and twiddle our thumbs and talk ourselves out of a miller lynch...

[Tchill13]

I still think we should just hang Archie to get him out of the way now, honestly. If Espeonage is literally volunteering for death tommorow, I'm inclined to agree and say they have town's interest at heart. Noob or not, I'm following my gut.

Besides, he went out of his way to threaten my in-game life. I will not move my vote from him.

Sorry Tchill.

saved for later use.

[Tchill13]

well this is the thing. idc if he volunteers tomorrow. things happen between now and tomorrow. things that can keep him from getting lynched. thats the beauty of mafia. thats why scum do what they can to survive "just one more day". anything can happen between now and tomorrow. From espeonage's pov anything that can keep him from getting lynched is what he's hoping for. Rest assured he'll repeat he's willing to FOR SURE be lynched tomorrow... key word tomorrow.

[Tchill13]

ok... once again... If i'm scum i say im miller day 1.

"day 2 you can lynch me....oh well if there's a vig he can just shoot me instead. vig shoot me N2 lets lynch so and so he's scum for sure."

D3 " guess there's no vig lets lynch me... oh this thing happened? well now we have to lynch so and so. lynch me tomorrow."

and so on and so on until lylo. If he's scum. If he's town we're getting rid of a negative town utility early asap. he's the lynch. sorry not sorry.

[Tchill13]

From espeonage's pov anything that can keep him from getting lynched is what he's hoping for.

you make it sound like he didn't expect people to want to policy him when he claimed miller.

if we wanted to keep from getting lynched, he could have NOT CLAIMED MILLER.

all ik from his play is he definitely doesnt want to get lynched day 1. which if he's town doesn't make sense because we're getting rid of something thats a hindrance to town day 1. How does this not make sense to you people?

[Tchill13]

ok. whos scum and why? right now tell me. Because i can tell you one player ik for sure is a hindrance to town whether his claim is real or fake. Thats espeonage. Now who's scum and why?

[Tchill13]

great great point there.... not like i was expecting something smart anyways (giggles to self)

[Tchill13]

i hate to tell you this but if scum is a miller they'll do and say whatever to not "show" survivalistic tendencies. THAT is the reason it has to be today.

[Tchill13]

And you keep framing it as though he's trying to worm his way out of a difficult situation. If scum, he got himself into that situation in the first place. Why would he do that, especially when his softclaim was generally well received?

he'd do that because if not for me nobody would even be questioning. so IF he's scum it would have worked like he wanted.

[Tchill13]

then he said dont lynch me until day 2.

[Tchill13]

It's mafia dude... anything can happen... you dont seem to understand that.

[Tchill13]

It does make sense. If I could pick the Lynch I would Lynch him d1. It's all about putting town in the best position to Lynch scum successfully.

[Tchill13]

He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.

[Tchill13]

Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?

If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.

[Tchill13]

happy holiday

[Tchill13]

i dont agree with your first point. in terms of the miller role specifically sure. he could still be scum and an investigative wouldnt help us due to his claim. as for "X and Y"... if we lynch a townie day one neither x or y is accomplished. so guarantee me we lynch scum day one and i'll agree with you.... You can't. you can't guarantee that.

[Tchill13]

the fact that you cant guarantee it is the WHOLE point.

[Tchill13]

but see i can guarantee we lynch a miller or we lynch mafia which... once again... is the reason im arguing this.

[Tchill13]

so far whymaf, jaydragon and something smart have clearly shown theyre against the miller lynch D1. Anyone else want to take a strong stance on it?

[Tchill13]

Archie is giving me even more reason to not move my vote now.

If you want to Lynch me, take your vote off of Espeonage and fully commit. Right now, your just trying to set me up for a day 2 Lynch without even contributing to the conversation about Espeonage. You don't care about the Espeonage Lynch despite your vote being on him and that's bullshit.

I've made mistakes, but I'm still learning the game. Even if Activity is Nai, I'm happier that Aristophanes is contributing more. I asked for the setup because I thought it was possible in normal forum games that the mod have out the possible roles beforehand. I was clearly wrong on that front, but now I know for future games. I joke around in some posts because I like jokes.

Tchill, and everyone else here for that matter, listen to me.

What is it you'd rather have here on day two? A townie with a Negative Utility? Or a townie with a Negative Personality?

a townie with a negative personality can be overlooked and just plain simply written off as town. A townie with a negative effect on my capability of lynching scum (in the form of a utility)... they gotta go. No reason to lynch a townie based on personality alone. ever. That's a bad argument.

[Tchill13]

so far espeonage has got to go D1. Then it's between Archie or Jaydragon. Jaydragon arguing to lynch archie over espeonage because of "personality" is weak. Nulls on just about everyone else. No goodTR yet.

[Tchill13]

It sounds like a stupid idea, but that will be your choice.

My reasoning for going after Arch may be stupid, but they are my reasons. I want to help town. Maybe me dying will help by eliminating my slot, but not as much as me being alive benefits town in the long run.

I can't give you anything that I haven't already said that will change your mind. I don't have any actual evidence yet, but Archwing is not trustworthy. My point on him being so hung up on me yet keeping his vote on Espeonage still stands. Accusing Uzi too doesn't help his situation

that second line applies more so to the claimed miller than anyone else rn.

[Tchill13]

well the last half lol.

[Tchill13]

i can't believe yall finally came to your senses and decided to lynch the miller... oh wait.... never mind.

[Tchill13]

For absolutely no reason... Cool.

[Tchill13]

oh... happy JOAT day? lol

[Tchill13]

So let me get this straight. The people that want to Lynch the Miller claim day 1 because it's a sure fire way to get something that works against town?... Then there's the pointless multiball disusssion that doesn't matter until flips prves it is or isn't multiball... The beauty of a Miller quick lynch is we don't talk circles into lynching someone else. I'd rather have a quick lynch on D1 every time because it's our least information day phase. Either way it blows my mind we refuse to Lynch someone that can't make it to lylo. He's literally the only player we have enough proof RIGHT NOW to know he absolutely CAN NOT make it to lylo but hey what do I know?

[Tchill13]

Nobody has taken a hard stance on the matter since I asked. So I'll politely ask again that yall do.

[Tchill13]

I see no reason to poke or prod with a viable Lynch. I've gotten enough info on all the player base except aristo. Those that haven't posted much today are usually low content anyway. I don't getstronge TR's until day 2 or 3. Just another game that people have proven day 1's are for scum to set the table on who to keep alive and who to kill. Day 1's ARE NOT for solving the WHOLE game. Scum benefit from long day 1s. Scum benefit from keeping a Miller alive. I don't know who scum is yet but ik who could be a Miller which is an asset for scum to use. I can't Lynch the claimed Miller by myself.

[Tchill13]

As far as actual scum Archie and jaydragonking are leading the way. Something smart and una can be town for now. They're actually having a discussion that would help catch scum unlike the rest of the player base. We will always have to worry about the Miller claim though. You can't guarantee he's town now. There's no way to. That's my issue. We're more likely to lynch town D1 than scum. I don't understand risking the Lynch of a helpful townie mechanically versus a sure fire Lynch that would eliminate a role scum mechanically benefit from. There's no reason to risk that.

[Tchill13]

Tell me someone isn't crazy enough as scum to fake claim Miller on day 1.

[Tchill13]

I'm not letting this one go. Doesn't make sense to.

[Tchill13]

Yes una bomb that's exactly what I'm trying to say. If we have a known threat that needs to be eliminated we eliminate that threat as soon as possible. Key word KNOWN.

[Tchill13]

It threatens to be the existence of a scum member? Seriously you can't see that?

[Tchill13]

I'm not sure how to communicate this to everyone, but I sort of..know..we shouldn't lynch Esp D1.

I do not claim power (yet), but I just feel like it's obvious..

You shouldn't have said this. It's looking like I'm not gonna have my way and Lynch espionage anyways. He's in no danger yet.

[Tchill13]

So far Everyone else threatens to be a CONFIRMABLE existence of town or scum. You really want to argue technicalities?

[Tchill13]

Who do you think should be the Lynch una and why?

[Tchill13]

So far Everyone else threatens to be a CONFIRMABLE existence of town or scum. You really want to argue technicalities?

Nothing to say about this SS?

[Tchill13]

You are right. It is false to confirm him as either alignment because we can confirm that from a flip. How else exactly do you confirm the alignment of a Miller? I'd like to know I honestly don't.

[Tchill13]

I've yet to see a game without an investigative role. That doesn't mean crap when it comes to the Miller claim. I thought you seriously meant find out the millers true alignment not give credence to it. The modifiers are arguable but not the investigative roles.

[Tchill13]

Well una that kinda flies over my head but I'd rather not discuss it further.... I still don't want to move my vote. If I had to it'd be arch or Jay. Idk why you scum read quick.

[Tchill13]

Oh you're a game solver too. Sweet.

[Tchill13]

Where's your scum reads then? Should I just sheep you so we can win on day 1?

[Tchill13]

I mean I'm not even gonna comment on that. It is funny he's not getting thrown around with the others. I wonder why that is.

[Tchill13]

Smart who's a scum read besides a low poster you'd rather Lynch Over the Miller?

[Tchill13]

I tend to approve these games from process of elimination. I want my suspects to kill list to be as short as possible. A claimed Miller is already on that list day 1 thats why I'm so adamant about it. Once we develop good scum reads around day 3 if he's still in that pool then we have a problem. Not only do we HAVE to kill those suspicious to be scum we also have to kill the Miller at some point. I'd rather not say "well idk who scum is let's just Lynch the Miller and go into lylo tomorrow" at any point in this game.

[Tchill13]

nobody wants to lynch the miller... im seriously baffled. im done pushing it.

[Tchill13]

lets lynch ucv because the arch wagon gained traction too easily.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: UCV

[Tchill13]

i dont like wagons that form a little too easily on day 1 imo. especially when a ton of ppl are talking about him like SS stated. UC stuck his foot in his mouth.

[Tchill13]

Also look at how difficult that Miller Lynch was. So many ppl against it. Makes you wonder.

[Tchill13]

no traction with UC...

VOTE: jaydragonking

[Tchill13]

there was no such thing as an UC wagon. people posted and showed no interest in it.

[Tchill13]

realistically una is my only decent TR right now. Una is the only one im seeing effort from here.

[Tchill13]

jay and archie are getting thrown around a lot. The miller lynch was met with VERY much opposition. Ari's catch up is meh. Whymafia, Dunk and lil uzi leave much to be desired in effort. Apparently flavor doesn't game solve till day 3 (which seems like he's adjusting his town play to benefit his scum play if he's not gonna get involved early because ik how good a player he is.)... So yeah... Let's lynch someone.

[Tchill13]

It's not a policy lynch. There is no burden on my part alone. It is towns burden to Lynch scum and I'm trying to make it as easy as possible. Yes I know opposition means most likely scum that's why I made sure to point that out. Sitting on a vote that will not lead to a Lynch is pointless. If espionage is scum he has partners. I'm forced to try to find them due to the fact no one wants to Lynch espionage. Apparently a Miller claim day 1 is treated the same way a cop claim day 1 is on this site. This is hysterically ridiculous.

[Tchill13]

That feel when your a noob but everyone elsa around you is using meta strategies from having multiple games together.

If I was scum, I really would have been fucked.

If you Mainstays on this site could kindly use evidence from this game instead of previous experience with that player for your case, so someone such as myself can make an informed decision, that would be wonderful.

Town... For now.

UNVOTE:

I'll cherry pick my reasons for keeping ppl around as well. This player seems pleasant and is giving effort. I'm not lynching until day 3 at the least or we have enough evidence to believe they're scum. Effort is NAI but makes for a more enjoyable experience. So yeah I'm gonna play with jaydragonking for a bit.

[Tchill13]

It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.

[Tchill13]

As for believing he's scum. I've stated how he could be playing it and I've overstated the opposition to his lynch. So yeah I'm leaning towards he's scum. Why fake claim Miller D1? Because scum wouldn't do that. If you're worth anything as scum you do what scum don't do.

[Tchill13]

Idc about archives. Idc about meta. Scum worth anything at all do what scum wouldn't do. That added with the fact that there will be no other claim, we don't leave any risk on the board at all... It's a blessing day 1 tbh. Hey man you do you though.

[Tchill13]

SS clearly has the ability to reason but can't see that his play is a day to day approach while mine focuses on putting town in the best position to win in later day phases. We're not going to Lynch all the scum in the first few days phases. The PROBABILITY of that is very low but that's how you're approaching it. If we Lynch someone else today we still have to deal with espe just like if we lynched espe today we'd still have to deal with the next scummiest.

[Tchill13]

I never argue to argue with one person. I argue for others to clearly understand my position on a matter. If we don't Lynch the Miller claim on day 1 we start this game off on the wrong foot. My intention was never to convince those who have already made up there mind. It's to convince those who haven't posted or didn't partake. Whymafia you haven't scum hunted at all. When you point one finger there's four pointing back at you.

[Tchill13]

I've at the least given statements regarding every player.

[Tchill13]

A) he can actually still be scum that is misguiding us B) Not confirm but give the role more credibility, a HUGE difference C) its much less likely to happen with a short term mindset.

[Tchill13]

Now una and Quick are town. i liked quicks case on ari's "mindset" that makes sense. A stretch but a stretch i like.

[Tchill13]

That feel when your a noob but everyone elsa around you is using meta strategies from having multiple games together.

If I was scum, I really would have been fucked.

If you Mainstays on this site could kindly use evidence from this game instead of previous experience with that player for your case, so someone such as myself can make an informed decision, that would be wonderful.

Town... For now.

UNVOTE:

I'll cherry pick my reasons for keeping ppl around as well. This player seems pleasant and is giving effort. I'm not lynching until day 3 at the least or we have enough evidence to believe they're scum. Effort is NAI but makes for a more enjoyable experience. So yeah I'm gonna play with jaydragonking for a bit.

This post should be grounds for a force replace imo

wanted to see what would come of it. you didnt dissapoint. if your "day play' is calling for people to be force replaced then it's definitely a style i havent seen before.

[Tchill13]

It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.

For this to be true it requires you to think out only way of winning is through power roles and not day play.

And my day play ability is why I want to get to day 2 because I believe the entire point of the game is to focus on day play.

discrediting and undermining my play. nice. I'd lynch the best mafia player of all time if he hurt town more than he could help. No matter what you say or do you have to be lynched sooner than later due to your claim. sorry im not letting your gambit work unlike the rest of the player list. Nice to meet you though.

[Tchill13]

A) he can actually still be scum that is misguiding us B) Not confirm but give the role more credibility, a HUGE difference C) its much less likely to happen with a short term mindset.

A. This is why we flip me.
B. Gunsmith confirms me, rolecop confirms me, vanilla cop and Neapolitan half confirm me.

you know what confirms a miller? a flip.

[Tchill13]

we seriously have no serious scum read and refuse to lynch espe. why should i believe we will lynch espe when we do have a good scum read?

[Tchill13]

i mean we're all the greatest to ever play we should just No lynch every day since we're all so good... thats your argument applied to the group as a whole espe.

[Tchill13]

i mean we're all the greatest to ever play we should just No lynch every day since we're all so good... thats your argument applied to the group as a whole espe.

i do want a response to this.

[Tchill13]

its not that you can't be confirmed by a cop. the same would apply to a miller that didnt claim. you CLAIMED though. you already provided reasoning as to why a negative result would come back on you. As such we should lynch to be completely sure while we have no main suspects and no other claims will be made. Much more info to work with will be gained by day 2 due to actions. the fact that you refuse to get lynched today due to your "day play" tells me you want to survive. So im sure you thought as long as you acted like you were fine with being lynched day 2 then day 3 youd slide right along and so on and so forth because crap happens in mafia. You CLAIMED. thats why you should be lynched. had you not claimed at all this wouldnt be a conversation regardless if youre a miller or scum.

[Tchill13]

are you kidding me? he replaces out after i refuse to stop lol.

VOTE: espe

[Tchill13]

nice replace out and throw some shade on your way out after demanding a force replace. marvelous day play seriously.

[Tchill13]

Technically, Dunker is the fourth lowest player poster, above Aristophanes, Uzi, and UCV (even though he joined later).

So he is in fact NOT top 3 bottom posters.

the point is you had to check.

[Tchill13]

I stand by the fact that you Lynch the claimed Miller day 1. If that's your whole case for me as scum that's just plain lazy. I did NOT focus all my day talk on day one to the Miller. I sorted the whole player list but wasn't gonna waste my time pursuing anything else cus if I had the Miller would have never gotten lynched.

[Tchill13]

you dont lynch a claimed miller D2 because now we are down 3 townies. Versus when we were down none and could afford that option.

[Tchill13]

preserving the miller for late game situations that benefit scum in the long run is scummier than tunneling the miller day 1.

[Tchill13]

i think SS is scum. I also think the inactives need to get in here and post today.

[Tchill13]

preserving the miller for late game situations that benefit scum in the long run is scummier than tunneling the miller day 1.

hey GUESS WHAT

WHYMAFIA WAS A WEAK ROLE

IF WE HADN'T LYNCHED ESPEONAGE HE WOULD BE CONFIRMED TOWN RIGHT NOW

doesnt change anything imo. You lynched the claim miller day 1 always. only thing that could have changed that from my perspective is una claiming backup miller.

[Tchill13]

the funny thing is had espe flipped red i wouldn't think SS is scum due to the fact you're not gonna hard defend your scum buddy D1 like that. Now that espe was actually miller makes me think SS wanted to preserve him for long term to create a situation where we had to choose between a scum read and the miller late game. He was so adamant about his defense D1 to get town cred for the flip he knew would happen. I can't wrap my head around a townie fighting so hard against a lynch that just logically made so much sense.

[Tchill13]

Single-handedly huh? im sorry im getting in your way by trying to play the game. Be specific when talking about Why's iso. Why does his posts imply that specifically? All i single-handedly did was make the right play. lynching a claimed miller day 1 always makes "so much sense" to me.

[Tchill13]

oh... im scum because someone town read me? coming from the guy that refused to lynch the miller to benefit his game long term. this is cute.

[Tchill13]

so the game i tunnel a miller day 1 theres 3 millers...?

[Tchill13]

you turned miller without knowing the existence of a possible miller?

[Tchill13]

i guess the cleric points to the existence of multiple millers? im not good with setup spec?

[Tchill13]

so we're just universally gonna agree i was targeted? cool.

[Tchill13]

una... is my only comfortable town read rn. as for whymaf and me having an eternal 1v1... i suspect thats going on with quite a few ppl lol.

[Tchill13]

i would imagine if we had an investigative then they would have used an action on UC, Ari or dunker.

[Tchill13]

Arch, SS, ucv lock it up. shame on you flavor for suggesting im scum.

[Tchill13]

so once again since i was town read im scum? i see why but thats just as lazy as saying im scum for the miller tunnel. Scum think long term. they win when making plays that benefit them from a long term standpoint. SS specifically stated he was thinking day by day which was funny enough to me at the time. now ik i argued long term thinking helps town win but i was saying it in the sense of shortening our potential scum members list. not in the since of prolonging the game till lylo. Had we kept espe around and the heat been turned up on SS he could very easily hide behind "well we have to lynch the miller today" and give himself breathing room to wiggle out of a lynch the next day phase. this is why i suspect SS of being scum. What long term advantage does scum have for shouting "lynch the miller" on D! vs keeping him around till day 3? I think it's obvious which one is more advantageous to scum.

[Tchill13]

theres too many variables for scum to work with when keeping a claimed D1 miller alive. thats just a fact. yall seem to have turned that into "tchill is scum because whymaf town read him"

[Tchill13]

Espionage I have a question
Why do we even have to lynch you based on the claim? Why can’t we just judge you for your play and sort you like normally

Guys I played as miller fairly recently
Just treat the miller as you would with any other player. Judge them on their play. If they act scummy, we pressure them, if they don't, we let em live

I claimed miller d1 as town miller .... and became an obv town slot
Why tf can’t we just judge ESP on his play? If he’s scummy we’ll lynch him lol

I don’t like how TChill and SS are continuing to bicker. I feel like one of them is a scum buddy with someone who is a leading wagon. They’re doing an awfully fine job at distracting us

Unpopular opinion
I think both Arch and Jay are town, but more comfortable with my Arch read

Quick lynch

I don't think this is lynch bait. I have more the feeling that scum are bussing Quick rn because while there's been substantial pressure on the other names, there's been little to nothing on Quick

I never argue to argue with one person. I argue for others to clearly understand my position on a matter. If we don't Lynch the Miller claim on day 1 we start this game off on the wrong foot. My intention was never to convince those who have already made up there mind. It's to convince those who haven't posted or didn't partake. Whymafia you haven't scum hunted at all. When you point one finger there's four pointing back at you.

Tchill ...
I town read you? Your play compared to Quick has a sharp contrast.

so after he said others were town he's gonna check the TR that went against his decision to judge the miller based on his play. way to cherry pick your posts to fit the narrative guys.

[Tchill13]

the guy even puts me up as scum at one point.

[Tchill13]

quick, arch, jay, tchill all TR's... mentioned that either tchill or SS could be scum... Tchill is scum because whymaf wanted to check someone that would guarantee he live another day?

[Tchill13]

Oh my god. This is hilarious. Tchill, you really gotta stop trying for scum theatre in games with me...

Jay, you should distance yourself from your buddy.

why stop when they usually work?

[Tchill13]

im just showing ALL of whymafs posts that show his position on multiple ppl.

[Tchill13]

notice how SS isnt debating any of my valid points because all of a sudden tchill wasnt whymafs only TR.

[Tchill13]

notice how SS isnt debating any of my valid points because all of a sudden tchill wasnt whymafs only TR.

can you read?
I gave 3 reasons for why I think he targeted you. (a) he townread you, (b) you scumread him, (c) you were the last person he talked about.

A) applies to multiple ppl. B) i dont remember saying hes scum i remember saying arch or jay is the most realistic to be scum C) thats... not the best reason.

[Tchill13]

Tchill ...
I town read you? Your play compared to Quick has a sharp contrast.

..and within a minute this:

Additionally, I will be confirmed town tomorrow and I've been busy

I'd say this almost certainly means he "checked" Tchill.

@Elsa, @Chill - notice this, please.
He added the last part within a minute from the first.
Read it with that context, and you have a crumb.

once again we're gonna believe that he checked a not so sure TR (he had a question mark since we are getting SOOO technical) instead of other TR's he never mentioned he thought could be scum?

[Tchill13]

The reason for lynching claimed Miller day 1 is because it was a luxury we could afford. We had not lost any townies yet and could get rid of a negative utility with a clean slate going into day 2. Now that 3 townies have died I don't think we can afford to Lynch a claimed Miller day 2 and let scum get another free NK IF the Miller is town. Una crumbed so I'm gonna assume una is town. I wasn't blessed btw.

[Tchill13]

Tchill literally rolled that wagon up a hill if you want to take about who takes credit for it. I didn't "pile on" I single handedly pushed it through. Or ruined the game depending on if your SS.

[Tchill13]

hey man that was back when i was a newbie. now im just a more experienced idiot.

[Tchill13]

I mean I understand the suspicion of my slot (pertaining to the death of whymafia). I'm not gonna advocate for my Lynch when he could have checked multiple people though. To be fair if I was sitting on the other side of the room I'd raise hell to get me lynched due to keeping the possible scum list as short as possible. My issue with that is we have a player who's play is based on neutrality (self preservation). A player who wanted to preserve the Miller which I believe could have huge benefits to a long term scum game. Arch is still suspicious Imo. So not much has changed from my pov. SS, Jay and arch is my Lynch pool. If it was up to me SS would hang. Isn't there a possibility that no one was blessed due to a role stopper or jail keeper type role? If we all agree that I'm the Lynch but won't vote just to keep the day going then that's not gonna help at all. Scum will take advantage of that and play accordingly.

[Tchill13]

You feel like telling me what's wrong with trying to live longer, Tchill? I believe we ALL want to live as long as we can, town and scum included. I'm just being open about my intent to both sides.

I am town, but I will be mainly with the majority. Mafia have bigger targets to go for, and town has no reason to hang me.

I'd be a Survivor if I could, Tchill. It's always been my favorite type of role in any variety of Mafia.

Your play is literally self preservation and not taking any stances that can cast you in a negative light. Your objective isn't to Lynch scum it's to live based on your play so far. That's the problem.

[Tchill13]

Yeah. I'd rather you put forth and effort into lynching scum even if it is in the form of tunneling me. Idc what you do as long as you're trying to Lynch scum. If everyone in the game played as you are doing right now scum would win very easily.

[Tchill13]

Ok. As long as everyone clearly sees that you're playing to fit in I don't really care what points you bring up.

[Tchill13]

I feel like chill has basically created a shit ton of wifom. Phone posting, so sorry if formatting is shit. Basically,

Optimal play is always lynch claimed Miller
Does it, regardless of who esp is.
Now we are in d2, and he still is able to say it was optimal play
He's able to say that it was not scum motivated, although scum!chill sees this as the PERFECT mislynch.
Town!chill just thinks it's optimal.

I have intent to place my vote today on chill. I think this game slowed down a lot though today.

A Miller Lynch day 1 isnt perfect for scum. A Miller Lynch day 3 is perfect for scum. More beneficial to keep him and hide behind his forced Lynch in the future if you are scum. Which is why I was so adamant day 1. It's basically a fact we should have done that knowing what we knew in that moment regardless of the outcome. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Tchill13]

Obviously nobody cared to even discuss the neutrality of jaydragonking. Arch just so happens to take a convenient stance on me when he was fos'd by a majority day 1 and poof that's just gone now. SS easily could be playing with long term motivation if he knew espe was actually a Miller and wanted to keep him around... I'm not sure what to do. Anyone stating I should be lynched for the lack of a blessing claim. I understand that. Anyone stating I should be lynched for my Miller ordeal. You're fundamentally wrong. That's always the right play for town on a claimed Miller day 1.

[Tchill13]

Espe being the perfect Lynch if I was scum is pretty laughable though. So I pin a target on my back D1 for the rest of the game when at least 3 people were getting thrown around as Lynch candidates by a majority of people. Scum would just sit back until one of them are lynched. There's little to no long-term benefits for scum to play it the way I did day 1. There is long term benefits for scum to play it the was SS did day 1.

[Tchill13]

As I said disputing the fact that someone isn't blessed is something I can't argue. All I can say is its possible I wasn't the one he checked. Those using the blessed argument to push me are likely town because it's a sound argument that makes sense. Those using the Miller argument to get me lynched are likely scum because it's an argument that is wrong from the start.

[Tchill13]

Well all I can do if I'm going to be the Lynch is get all of my scum reads out and validate the reasoning. I feel like I have for the most part. I mean even your response helps. It shows that I haven't even voted you and you'd rather Lynch me for saying things that could lead to a scum case on you. Just more self preservation. Good to know.

[Tchill13]

whats there to discuss? there was little to no evidence to validate those accusations D1. Now with the show of neutrality there is a little to back up the accusation. thats why im talking about it.

[Tchill13]

im the only one "voicing" a problem. big difference. id be surprised if i was the only one with a problem.

[Tchill13]

This is my issue. Unas whole case on me... It's 2 posts. That's all it is. It's 2 posts that point to a possibility that why maf could have used his night action on me. The thing is why would he TR me more so than the other two people he mentioned as TR'S in his iso? He blatantly said I was a scum lean at one point. He also stated he clearly disagreed with me on the Miller situation. Had he checked me I would have already claimed blessed by now. If I'm scum here why wouldn't I have claimed blessed in my first post? A time stamp is your argument as to why I'm scum when in actuality had whymafia wanted to be CERTAIN he checked town from his perspective because he wanted to live he could have either not committed his action at all which isn't likely or he could have checked the 2 TRs of his he never stated a scum lean on. I would think you'd TR players that you never scum leaned more than he would have TR'd me at the time. Una has dug into what could possibly be the easiest but flawed argument to make.

[Tchill13]

If I truly believed whymafia blatantly left a crumb as noticeable as that scum would notice it and fake claim blessed right out of the gate. I don't believe that's a crumb. I believe it's an argument that could lead to easy momentum and a rushed lynched.

[Tchill13]

Anyways I'm going to bed. I will discuss this further soon though. You're point of conftowning himself and me at the same time is one I like. That does make sense.

[Tchill13]

Like, FFS Boon.
Let's assume WhyMafia DIDN'T get to crumb D1, fine.

HE WOULD STILL TARGET A PERSON THAT HE THINKS IS SURELY TOWN, OR WHO HE HAS HINTED AT THE VERY LEAST.

There should be no way around this, everyone should understand it.
If you were to get a role such as his, you would pick a target that you think is surely town - why would you risk it with Ari?
And since no one else has claimed blessed, he targeted scum.

"pick a target that is surely town" how many more times do I have to say in his freaking iso it's obvious I'm not his most concrete town read. So then you decide to propose lynching a conf townie instead of lynching me lol. This is ridiculous. You're digging in. Your mislynch didn't go through as easily as you thought it would.

[Tchill13]

As for flavor leaf claiming vig... I kinda yawn at that lol. If flavor really is the vig and we're in day 2 I completely expect the great and wonderful flavor leaf to shoot scum, game solve, all that good crap. Seems to me he's slacking a bit compared to other games. I'm not surprised at all he "claimed" vig.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: dunker

I'm just gonna sheep flavor. It's obvious SS won't get lynched today apparently, nor jaydragonking. I believe ari's blessed. I mean you're freaking kidding me that scum with 5 posts D1 is gonna wait until everyone else has claimed THEN fake claim blessed right? That's stupid. Sherlock una seems to see the "obvious" crumb, the "obvious" fake claim.... Maybe una is incapable of making complex reads? My lord if we have some competent scum who don't make such "obvious" plays una isn't helping at all. Seeing how no wagon can properly be built I'd say scum is at least decent atm.

[Tchill13]

Hey flavor it'd be great if you didn't make excuses for shitty play as I sheep you lol.

[Tchill13]

You literally just said you're not a good vig. Which made me more suspicious of you for a second because I've never seen you not compliment yourself but then you went back and did it lol. Either way I'm confident I can properly sort boon day 3. I feel good about ari being town for sure. I think una could be misguided town? I don't see scum motivation in throwing these easy reads around because it'll get una lynched sooner or later IF una is scum. I see scum motivation in jaydragonking and SS. I'll settle on a dunker Lynch though because the end all be all flavor as declared dunk as scum with his vote. I also think night actions will help clear up the confusion around my slot from unas point of view which would be helpful if una is town.

[Tchill13]

Umm sorry I have to sheep you know cus you at least have good taste in music.

[Tchill13]

Yeah if you even mention Jay's name Jay freaks out. No need to worry about that apparently though. Wonder why that's so hush hush?

[Tchill13]

Nope. I'm literally hoping on the dunker wagon because I can't get conf scum lynched atm and this is my best shot at hitting scum. Besides if flavor is wrong again his death awaits.

[Tchill13]

SS is conf scum for wanting to preserve the Miller to abuse in late game and jaydragonking is probably scum. Due to buddying, self preservation, no hard stances. I haven't seen anyone play a game on site the way Jay is atm.

[Tchill13]

Ah but I have seen everyone on site claim they're unique lol. I mean if you're a special snow flake that's perfect for being a boon babe. Flavor where are the sign up sheets again? It's in the scum thread right?

[Tchill13]

not sure if the game died down because town dont know who to lynch or scum are mad they didnt get to quick lynch me lol. SS, jay or archie are good candidates for a lynch.

[Tchill13]

These crumbs are getting out of hand lol.

[Tchill13]

Well that's a pretty freaking strong role Imo. On top of the already strong cleric.

[Tchill13]

So let's Lynch someone...

[Tchill13]

i really dont care whos lynched atm. if yall want to lynch me and lynch a slot with a lot of confusion around it thats fine. itll clear up the blessed situation. it will confirm ari as blessed and im sure ari would be the NK due to a conf townie. this would also protect other PR's. ive gotten all of my scum suspects out there with all of my reasoning. only issue is the next day phase will be lylo wont it? if not thats just another reason to lynch me. We do need to do something to revive this game though. ppl have seen to have just given up altogether. ive suggested my lynch candidates and we've gotten little to no traction so now im proposing this.

[Tchill13]

im assuming one of boon or ari is scum because boon believed ari's claim so quickly? what seperates me from boon i believed it also.

[Tchill13]

selfmeta is trash.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

One of boon/ari is scum, prolly not both.

I'm willing to lynch today within {dunker, ari, boon, quick}. Chill is good for now.

Pedit; yeah I'm swamped with holiday prep and final exams

this is funny. i think if one is scum so is the other. IF ari fake claimed and boon believed him so quickly i would assume if one flipped scum then the other would. Of course i believed him also. I suppose the clerics actual target could have been jailkept or something of that sort and ari tried to take advantage of it but i HIGHLY doubt as scum someone that lurked D1 then lets everyone claim blessed so he claims it last to achieve conf town status... thats terrible scum. Ari has a green name i think he's been here a while. Now please tell me why they "prolly" can't be scum together?

[Tchill13]

boon could be scum here but if he doesn't shoot scum N2 i dont think he is. im still leaning towards SS or jay.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: somethingsmart

i see long term motivation for his actions. not dunkers.

[Tchill13]

I'm not going to be lynched. I don't know how difficult it will be to convince Tchill of that, however.

You must see the flaws in his argument, right? He is claiming that I was acting on a long-term scum plan by defending Espe on the premise that he could be confirmed, which was true, while Tchill himself pushed to lynch Espe on the premise that such a confirmation was impossible, which was false.

YOU were ACTING like that was your case while pushing to use the miller late game to put town between a rock and a hard place. throwing town into a difficult situation late game of lynching the miller claim or super suspicious scum candidate? a miller confirmation is FALSE. all you can do is hint towards the validity of a miller you can not CONFIRM a miller UNTIL THE FLIP. thats my point. this has already been established. you are flat out lying.

[Tchill13]

so jay you fail to see why scum would want to keep a miller around? does anyone for that matter fail to see that?

[Tchill13]

well ive never seen anyone play like this and im not sure why its being allowed but whatever.

[Tchill13]

whos your scum reads? no explanations just names.

[Tchill13]

A Miller returns a negative result don't they?

[Tchill13]

Honestly, Assemble put together a great miller game setup in a way I’ve never seen anyone do.

So basically it's uncommon for there to be anyway to validate a Miller? How nice.

[Tchill13]

You know how many times I've voted dunk for the way he's playing right now and he's flipped town?

[Tchill13]

4th times the charm? Is that how the saying goes?

[Tchill13]

Bad vote. What's the late game motivation here if flavor is scum?

[Tchill13]

VOTE: dunker

[Tchill13]

no, he admitted in a newbie game he was sergatacos i think. unless i read the posts wrong

Who's sergtacos? Nope not me.

Explains the guilty

[Tchill13]

If everyone else is sergtacos then I don't believe the cop claim. Can we please Lynch dunker. I'm literally only pushing him because we need a Lynch. This game has become stagnant.

[Tchill13]

So you just celebrated still being alive then said town sucks? Lol.

[Tchill13]

You know what I think is going on here? I've only seen flavor get this crazy in wild gambits... Gut feeling he is bussing his partner in a way yall won't actually vote EE but at the same time don't vote flavor. I'm fine with voting EE.

[Tchill13]

I don't like this at all actually. Who else is hesitant to vote EE? That could be the scum team unless there's multiple ppl hesitating.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: everything else

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

[Tchill13]

No I called flavor out on bussing his partner. He immediately pretend that EE was my partner. Ik flavor is full of it at that point. Especially since me and flavor are partners lol. No seriously EE is his scum buddy. I'm convinced of it now.

[Tchill13]

thank the lord someone noticed... More votes on flavor please?

[Tchill13]

And for those voting everything else?

[Tchill13]

And you know how that's different from a "no result", right?

I just really want to make sure nobody messes up role stuff like that because I've seen it happen.

let me double check

my action failed and i didnt get a result oh i see

this basically lock town me

eww. nothing lock towns you.

[Tchill13]

IM SICK OF PLAYERS DOING OBV TOWN THINGS AND EXPECTING TO BE TOWN READ. like thats exactly why scum would do obv town things.

[Tchill13]

There be the survivor.

[Tchill13]

Yeah I claimed vig in the neighborhood. I shot uzi. Sorry not sorry.

[Tchill13]

im an odd night vig. was planning on shooting ari due to the confusion the slot is causing anyways.

[Tchill13]

i was also thinking about not shooting at all due to mylo. thats a huge risk shooting a claimed towny in mylo... im not sure yet.

[Tchill13]

Yeah I claimed vig in the neighborhood. I shot uzi. Sorry not sorry.

[Tchill13]

If you're scum that wins you the game doesn't it? And I've already explained why you playing the Miller the way you did leads me to believe you were preserving the Miller for long term usage to scums advantage. I don't like how you came up with that so quickly.

[Tchill13]

I mean you would know that both me and ari are town if you're scum and neither of us are your scum partner. There's a scenario where you already know the outcome of this SS. I'm thinking we maybe playing in that scenario.

[Tchill13]

i mean as far as long term planning and manipulation goes it's clearly ss. Archie has just drifted along as a scum read.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: somethingsmart

[Tchill13]

You think that there could be a setup that could have 4 confirmed towns by D2?

please explain. your definition of confirmed and suggests are too similar.

[Tchill13]

Is everyone confused?

[Tchill13]

You get a prod, you get a prod, everyone gets aprod .

[Tchill13]

So I've went from EE is scum with flavor to EE is scum with SS...

[Tchill13]

"All I want is to survive" "am I a factor". The surest way for you to survive is to make sure you're not a factor in the game. You're clearly no threat to scum. If you are scum you've played to survive pretty blatantly.... Not the best game I've ever seen.

[Tchill13]

I can pretty much vote anyone at thispoint.

[Tchill13]

EE and SS just straight up defending each other.

VOTE: everything else

[Tchill13]

So let me get this straight. Flavor could be bussing EE. SS could be hard defending his scum partner EE but ari should be the Lynch today?

[Tchill13]

In the neighborhood, and even in thread, I’ve said that Ari and Tchill need to cross target each other, so that way it can auto clear them or auto catch them out of they are SK/Mafia, if they’re town/Town, Tchill’s vig shot will likely go through.

This.

[Tchill13]

So your basically saying Ari is fucked regardless of being town or scum if Tchill is vig because your saying to shoot him anyway? Alright then.

well isnt it the best play to clear up confusion around slots? like i might believe his claim but if we have enough ppl who dont it doesnt matter. does that make sense?

[Tchill13]

I don't think SS is gonna day anything he already hasn't said.

[Tchill13]

I feel pretty confident EE is scum but ok. If yall want me to just shoot ari after a no Lynch I guess that'll work.

[Tchill13]

So are lynch pool is EE, tchill, boon, SS, myself, Arch?

Why... Did you leave out Jay?

[Tchill13]

the amount of times i've seen "i almost voted myself" from scum lmao. yes im the vig. odd night.