Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

[Toto]

Whats your case on Ramcius scum, describe it as simply as you can.

[Toto]

I'm not arguing definitions. Ram is. Please go back and re-read.

I'm getting him to expand his definitions because his argument is ludicrous and I'm letting him dig his own hole.

[Ellibereth]

WELCOME BACK VONFLARE

[Ramcius]

no, my defense is that you either stubborn bad town or scum, you try push "alignment won't change" idea, when you only guessing alignment, which is ridiculous - your read is subjective, you can't push it as objective argument

What, exactly, constitutes "objective" in mafia arguments? I'm genuinely interested.

well, me knowing my alignment is objective for example

i'm glad you know that most things aren't objective in mafia, so why you act like your read on my slot is absolute and unchangeable?

I never posited my read to be absolute and unchangeable. You have strawmanned it that way. But lets keep following your argument out, shall we?

Person A believes Person B is scum. Person B believes Person A is scum. Both A and B state their alignment is Town. Neither one is known to the other.

How do you posit an objective argument be made to lynch either of them, based on the position '[that] unless an argument is objective it is invalid'?

nah, my friend, you said i'm scum, because you had scum read on my pred, that's on your part, not mine. Your exact words were "alignment don't change"

Also, i like example, because we had that situation in recent Ali game, 2 hydras was at each other throat, both were town. So if 2 people call each other scum doesn't mean one of them is scum, but i appreciate your efforts

[Transcend]

Hurry up and kill someone

[Ramcius]

Hurry up and kill someone

are you volunteer to eat rope?

[Transcend]

No i eat dog treats

[Ramcius]

No i eat dog treats

sadly we have just rope

[RachMarie]

Are we really going to spend the next 3 days discussing anyone but people in group C? For realz.

Come on guys we need some consensus at some point.

Gun to head, who do you feel is most likely scum in group C and who is 2nd on your list in group C.

NOT B, NOT A but C

[Thor665]

Ginngie and Rach's exchange makes me put Ginngie as a town read.

@Ram - yes, I'm scum reading your slot for Ali's play, I fail to see the issue there.

[vonflare]

WELCOME BACK VONFLARE

Thanks. I'm here and catching up.

[Ramcius]

Ginngie and Rach's exchange makes me put Ginngie as a town read.

@Ram - yes, I'm scum reading your slot for Ali's play, I fail to see the issue there.

Well, i'm town, but you scum probably, so yes, no issue i guess, carry on

[Ramcius]

Are we really going to spend the next 3 days discussing anyone but people in group C? For realz.

Come on guys we need some consensus at some point.

Gun to head, who do you feel is most likely scum in group C and who is 2nd on your list in group C.

NOT B, NOT A but C

Well, how about you try push C group instead of bickering and complaining about someone, who actually is voting in group C?

[Surreptitious]

Group A	Group B	Group C
EddieFenix Vaxkiller Bulbazak Toto Elliberetta InactionDan Creature	Majiffy SnarkySnowman Thor665 momo Lil Uzi Vert	vonflare Desperado RachMarie checkersman7 Transcend Ginngie Ramcius

Vote Count 2.6 B

vonflare (0): [L-7]

Desperado (3): Toto, Creature, Bulbazak [L-4]

RachMarie (1): SnarkySnowman [L-6]

checkersman7 (0): [L-7]

Transcend (0): [L-7]

Ginngie (1): InactionDan [L-6]

Ramcius (5): Thor665, Majiffy, EddieFenix, momo, Vaxkiller [L-2]

Not voting (3): Lil Uzi Vert, Elliberetta

It takes 7 to lynch.

DPII ends in (expired on 2017-12-10 00:50:00)

Mod Notes

BTD6_Maker is V/LA until Dec 7th.

Feel free to PM me about slots that are posting too much or too little

[Vaxkiller]

Rach I know you cant vote, but why arent you pushing anyone?

[EddieFenix]

Extending my v/la til Friday. Kid and mother have stomach bugs and old Ed has to pick up the slack.

[RachMarie]

I thik des is scum

I think des is scum

I think des is scum

I have made a flipping case and showed his town play in another game we were int

If I could vote, I wuld vote des

[RachMarie]

Sorry to hear that Ed Hope they feel better soon.

[Majiffy]

Whats your case on Ramcius scum, describe it as simply as you can.

Why don't you just read it?

And to addendum that; since that case has been presented, Ramci has spent the entire time misrepping/strawmanning my case on him as entirely "Mikan scumread ergo Ramci scum" when

the majority of the presented case

is actually about Ramci's participation.

I'm not arguing definitions. Ram is. Please go back and re-read.

I'm getting him to expand his definitions because his argument is ludicrous and I'm letting him dig his own hole.

I'm not sure if you're just dumb or intentionally not getting what I'm laying down here.

[Ramcius]

Whats your case on Ramcius scum, describe it as simply as you can.

Why don't you just read it?

And to addendum that; since that case has been presented, Ramci has spent the entire time misrepping/strawmanning my case on him as entirely "Mikan scumread ergo Ramci scum" when

the majority of the presented case

is actually about Ramci's participation.

I'm not arguing definitions. Ram is. Please go back and re-read.

I'm getting him to expand his definitions because his argument is ludicrous and I'm letting him dig his own hole.

I'm not sure if you're just dumb or intentionally not getting what I'm laying down here.

Did i? Or you just picked on this topic and ignored everything else i said about your presented case on me? Anyway, why you didn't pushed me on your provided arguments, but escalate this misreping/strawmaning as you call?

[Ellibereth]

bulb - strong townreads elsewhere in the group and past experience
eddie - he's straddling the line, not much to explain
you and chesskid - no idea what your scumgames look like but you both feel right. unfortunately there's no hito or kagami here to help bridge the gap between you guys and the rest of us

YOU'RE ALLLOWED TO AMEND YOUR STATEMENT ON CHESSKID NOW

[checkersman7]

ON THAT NOTE

GINNGIE IS YOUR CHESSKID PARANOIA RELATED TO MAPLEWOOD

also when I say 'illogical as scum' I mean stuff like that 'exactly 2 scum here' schlock I was peddling. *shrug*

[Ginngie]

ON THAT NOTE

GINNGIE IS YOUR CHESSKID PARANOIA RELATED TO MAPLEWOOD

also when I say 'illogical as scum' I mean stuff like that 'exactly 2 scum here' schlock I was peddling. *shrug*

YES YOU CHICKEN FUCK

IT FUCKED ME UP

SO HARD

I WAS

SO CONFIDENT

AND HAPPY

THINKING I COULD JUST SHEEP YOU

YOU FUCKED UP A PERSONAL SCUM HUNTING TELL AND THEN YOU OBV!TOWN AS SCUM

SO FUCK YOU

MAD RESPECT BUT DAMN

[checkersman7]

1)

For people who don't know.
CHESCKERSMAN is a good friend of mine irl.

We've known each other for a long time and have talked extensively on how we approach mafia and what we think play should be etc.

HE IS 100% TOWN HERE
100%

He would not care as much about this game as he does as scum.
He would not be posting at the absurd ratio he is in this game as scum.

He's actually similar to me in one huge regard: he's only super hard to read as scum when he cares deeply about winning a scum game.

And I can 100% garuantee you he would not give a flying fuck about winning this if he rolled scum so.

This is still very accurate Ginngie

That level of effort is only worth it for me with that quality of playerlist

not this clusterfuck

[Vaxkiller]

I'm not sure where im at with Rach right now.