Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

He criticizes wavemode for "telling him who he is", but then votes someone else.

[TwoInAMillion]

Unvote. Vote: TwoInAMillion

for already misreading. Pretty sure he wasn't criticizing wavemode.

How can you be pretty sure if he doesn't specify? I assumed he was talking about the first to mention alignment.

[TwoInAMillion]

Hey guys. I'm town this game.

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

VOTE: skitter30

me too

Me three.
VOTE: Monkey

Me four.

Vote: sergtacos

because I only

kinda like

tacos

Me five.
VOTE: Chip Butty

VOTE: Flubbernugget

When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.

wave was the first one to say he was town.

[TwoInAMillion]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

He criticizes wavemode for "telling him who he is", but then votes someone else.

You meant he criticised flubber, not wave, right?

I'm not sure anymore. Half of me thinks he was serious and half thinks he was joking.

[TwoInAMillion]

Not me

VOTE: flubbernugget
Seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Vote HEM please

"at this point"? Is it ever too early to scumhunt?

That doesn't look like scum hunting to me.

Whats there to hunt when you already found one scum?

The two other scum?

[TwoInAMillion]

Not me

VOTE: flubbernugget
Seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Vote HEM please

"at this point"? Is it ever too early to scumhunt?

That doesn't look like scum hunting to me.

Whats there to hunt when you already found one scum?

The two other scum?

Oh thats easy, Chip and you. Bam.

I'm so offended.

[TwoInAMillion]

You know fake claiming miller is a thing right?

[TwoInAMillion]

i don't, I'm just saying it doesn't confirm your alignment.

[TwoInAMillion]

Maybe because there's not really any town reason to claim scum?

There isn't really any scum reason to claim scum?

Why are you and Sephiroth taking that post seriously when it was clearly a joke?

I mean, was it clearly a joke? Maybe. But we're less than 24 hours into Day 1 and if you've noticed Flub hasn't shown up to say anything since. I'm taking it seriously in that its a good enough reason to start a D1 wagon that actually generates discussion. Whether I'm taking it seriously enough to say that I think Flub is scum, obviously not yet. That may change depending on the their next post though. That's kind of the point of an early D1 wagon...see something worth attacking, wagon, see what happens. I think claiming non-town is worth probing, don't you?

There's no serious reason to claim scum. This is a normal game and I don't see Jester being a role.

[TwoInAMillion]

Because I don't want to see town lynched?

We are a day into the game, there's a lot more left to happen day 1. Why the rush?

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm not saying we shouldn't wagon anyone. I'm saying we shouldn't pursue bad wagons.

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: wosi

As skitter noted, they waited until it felt safe to hop on my wagon before voting.

I also scum read chip butty. In 44 they remove their rvs vote, but in the subsequent post place a new rvs vote.

Sephiroph, I think you are town, but I don't like the activity precedent you are trying to set, and I'm being upfront now about probably not following it.

Not liking that there are things you might not be upfront about.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

[TwoInAMillion]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

[TwoInAMillion]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

Do most games have millers? I don't think so.... it seems like it be pretty decent odds actually to fake claim miller and not get counter claimed.

I would say maybe 25%-33% have millers. So it is pretty risky considering you are almost certain to be lynched if counterclaimed and there is a third the number of scum as town.

[TwoInAMillion]

[quote= Sephiroth"] I also REALLY don't like Post 68 from twoinamillion. The reasoning seems manufactured and they had JUST finished trying to shut down any discussion involving Flub's claim. Seems a little sketchy to interpret Flub's post that way and turn it into a vote..[/quote]


Not "trying" to turn anything into any vote. It's my feelings on flub and way more concrete reasoning than a lot of the votes so far.

[TwoInAMillion]

Not convinced that the miller claim is real, leaning towards it being fake. Also not convinced that it's AI if it's fake. I could see scum!Taco claiming it based on how Mini Normal 1946 worked out. I can also see town!Taco fake-claiming it for the lolz. I have little to no confidence in my ability to read him.

Taco, why are you pushing HEM atm?

Chip, why are you making a series of RVS votes and unvotes? What do you think about the Flubber thing?

Implosion, I like your posting, and agree with most of it. Why the townlean on Tacos?

Scumlean on wossi.

VOTE: wossi

I really don't buy that claim from Serg, but I'm not ready to give up my Flubbernugget vote. I've been with him on a miller game before and he had seen someone claim on the first post. I would have thought he would have claimed in his first post. Instead, he tried to push a wagon on me for ????? reasons.

Those who joke about being scum are highly scummy for me. It deserves attention. Also, how people FOUND A WAY to attack me for a CLEAR CUT vote definitely makes me think I'm on to something. Looking at you, 2inamil.

Serg, 2inamil, and Flubbernugget deserve attention today.

I love attention

but hey lets sheep. VOTE: Flubbernugget

Nothing with my reasoning. Both of these votes have weak reasoning.

[TwoInAMillion]

Nothing wrong with, that is.

[TwoInAMillion]

It's not reaching at all. He says "he's being upfront now" which implies there are things he's hiding. That's what scum do more than town.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't agree that it's thin reasoning. And "claiming scum" is something that's not done seriously in a mafia game.

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm not liking Sergtacos pushing the claiming scum thing...

VOTE: SergtacosVOTE:

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: Sergtacos

[TwoInAMillion]

Sorry I mean seph, not serg.

VOTE: Sephiroth

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm not liking Sergtacos pushing the claiming scum thing...

VOTE: SergtacosVOTE:

I'm actually not doing that either. I was pushing that it was anti-town to not answer a direct question about his miller claim.

I disagree.

[TwoInAMillion]

I admit I have difficulty making reads on people without hard informaiton or a lot of associative votes to go on. I tend to be more valuable as the game progresses.

[TwoInAMillion]

I thought the bad push on flub was more anti-town than then flub's idiot posting.

[TwoInAMillion]

I thought the bad push on flub was more anti-town than then flub's idiot posting.

It wasn't a bad push, it was an early d1 pressure push. Please return to the noob queue until you get the concept.

I think flub is probably town so it's a bad push in my book.

[TwoInAMillion]

I think flub is probably town so it's a bad push in my book.

So you've gone from flub scum to flub idiot to flub town how?

If scum are pushing someone as scum they are probably town.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't like how much time Wossi is taking to fakeclaim, I am willing to hammer if needed.

[TwoInAMillion]

Of course he should claim
If he's at l-1. And I didn't say I would hammer, I said I was willing to depending on the circumstances. Caught scum is caught scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

I never said that about wossi. Reread the thread.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't know what you're getting at. The weak reasoning was believing a miller claim to be fake just for the sake of it.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't know what you're getting at. The weak reasoning was believing a miller claim to be fake just for the sake of it.

my bad Post 225 is wrong. UNVOTE:
Why do you find Wossi scummy?
It seems like the more pressure he is getting the more lurking he is doing.

[TwoInAMillion]

Mafia have day talk and they are able to perform any factional kill alongside their other actions, if necessary.

Someone should read the OP

lmao you caught me.

scum with day chat usually type up paragraphs to demonstrate how town they are. we should just lynch based on the amount of words per post lol

Can you post examples?

[TwoInAMillion]

So you're making a general observation about mafia in general from observing one game? You don't think that maybe the one game could have been an outlier?

FOS: HEM

[TwoInAMillion]

Because it sets up the possibility of mislynching town based on the word count of their posts.

[TwoInAMillion]

I knew you were kidding. It just gives me the vibe that you aren't really interested in finding scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

I didn't "want to push you" until you posted about the word count. You didn't answer my question about the game you played in being an outlier or not. There was a purpose to your post, even if you were "kidding". It's not in finding scum.

I'm pretty sure my push was well explained more so than your original word count posts.

[TwoInAMillion]

You're feeling like scum who want to gain favor with the town with statements that make it look like you are thinking about the game when you're not.

[TwoInAMillion]

My eyes rolled so far back that I felt my brain touch my iris.

I was kidding. But I'm still on the lookout for well-curated posts because it screams day chat editing. I'm also not wrong.

I don't think word-count in general is a scumtell. Some people post one-liners. Some people post paragraphs. Like the length of my posts has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment (the number of posts I make on the other hand . . . . )

While I agree that this is a thing that could happen (heck, I did it in 1946), I don't think that well-curated posts are inherently a scumtell. People could just be good at writing.

Now, if someone who usually spam-posts one-liners randomly wrote a long post filled with paragraphs, capitalization and long-winded explanations, I would find that sketchy.

Two, I legit have no idea what you're going on about.

You're accusing him of setting up mislynches based on word count, but I don't think anyone here would let a lynch go through solely using that reasoning. Like I don't think that would ever actually happen, so I don't think he'd actually try to push long-posts = scum. He's making a general observation, yes. Do I think it's unfounded, yes. Do I think he's seriously going to push people based on that, no. So do I think he's using this to set-up mislynches, no.

This last exchange has dropped you from hard-null to scumlean.

I've seen people pushed for much sillier reasons. I'm more trying to get into his state of mind than actually saying this will cause a mislynch.

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm trying to find out if he's scumhunting more than trying to set up mislynches. Because he looks like lazy town or lazy scum and I'm trying to figure out which.

[TwoInAMillion]

Above, it sounds like you were accusing him of trying to set-up mislynches.

*sigh* My point was that that is what could happen if he followed through with his line of logic.

[TwoInAMillion]

Heading out to taco bell, I'll be out for awhile.

[TwoInAMillion]

Because I don't want to see town lynched?

We are a day into the game, there's a lot more left to happen day 1. Why the rush?

Lets be clear here. A wagon is not the same as a lynch. I am not in a rush to lynch. I AM in a rush to start a substantial wagon because it takes us out of the random stage and into the actual game. The longer we're in RVS the longer people can lurk and make excuses like "I have nothing to work with!" to be completely non-committal.

Are you saying you don't want us to wagon anyone? Not sure how its pro-town to just not pressure anyone out of fear of lynching. It takes 7 to lynch, it only takes like 3-4 to constitute a wagon.

I like this post, and I share this logic on wagons.

I don't like TwoInAMillion's answer that he doesn't want to pursue bad wagons. There's so much information that can be revealed even by poorly reasoned wagons

I don't agree with the quanity over quality philosophy.

[TwoInAMillion]

Because I don't want to see town lynched?

We are a day into the game, there's a lot more left to happen day 1. Why the rush?

Lets be clear here. A wagon is not the same as a lynch. I am not in a rush to lynch. I AM in a rush to start a substantial wagon because it takes us out of the random stage and into the actual game. The longer we're in RVS the longer people can lurk and make excuses like "I have nothing to work with!" to be completely non-committal.

Are you saying you don't want us to wagon anyone? Not sure how its pro-town to just not pressure anyone out of fear of lynching. It takes 7 to lynch, it only takes like 3-4 to constitute a wagon.

I like this post, and I share this logic on wagons.

I don't like TwoInAMillion's answer that he doesn't want to pursue bad wagons. There's so much information that can be revealed even by poorly reasoned wagons

I don't agree with the quanity over quality philosophy.

They're not mutually exclusive

You literally just said any wagon is a good wagon.

[TwoInAMillion]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

I think I responded to this earlier, and this is definitely a tin foil, but this post reads to me like scum defending a buddy's fake miller claim

No it's common sense.

[TwoInAMillion]

wossi/seph/wave/skitter/serg towny

I would vote lalendra, tiam, wicked, possibly implosion

I feel neglected

don't feel neglected.

If you had an instant one shot bullet right now and had to use it, who would you shoot?

Also, what is the best strategy for reading somebody like TwoInAMillion?

I'd shoot the guy my vote is on (wave), obv. Kind of a non-question. Also for neglecting me.

First time playing with TIAM. Strikes me as a lynchbait type. Best way to read is through that filter.

My 66% winning percentatge says otherwise.

[TwoInAMillion]

My 66% winning percentatge says otherwise.

Oh okay. I thought "two-in-a-million" was your winning stats...

No that's my chance for a second date with a cute girl.

[TwoInAMillion]

iDannyboy is probably town but I think he could do a better job of getting opinions from others and not just forming conclusions by himself.

[TwoInAMillion]

iDannyboy is probably town but I think he could do a better job of getting opinions from others and not just forming conclusions by himself.

My 40% winning percentage says otherwise.

Not terrible.

What do you think of HEM replacing out. Do you think it had to do with the pressure he was getting?

[TwoInAMillion]

First thing you have to say is WIFOM? Doesn't exactly make me think you're town.

[TwoInAMillion]

@Mulch: In one of the other games we played together you said your posting style was NAI.

Now you're saying the exact opposite.

[TwoInAMillion]

First thing you have to say is WIFOM? Doesn't exactly make me think you're town.

I don't really care if you scumread me tbh. Also, if I were you I woild be sheeping people with better reads than you.

Finally you don't know what wifom is. Sorry bud

If you say that posting immediately makes you town, than that is WIFOM.

[TwoInAMillion]

OK, that's it for today. I'm going to be pretty low effort and low time to this game.

VOTE: sergetacos

I do think his Miller claim is towny tho.

You're voting for someone you think is towny?

[TwoInAMillion]

Is there evidence that daychat makes miller claims more likely to be true?

I think the miller claim is true because there hasn't been a counter claim, not because of daychat.

[TwoInAMillion]

He admitted to fakeclaiming miller? I didn't see that.

[TwoInAMillion]

Ah okay I must have missed it.

[TwoInAMillion]

We should lynch scum like you or Wossi.

[TwoInAMillion]

We should lynch scum like you or Wossi.

Why do you scumread me bub

WIFOM, thinking that the miller claim was townie but still thinking he's scum, you tried to buddy me as scum in our earlier game.

[TwoInAMillion]

We should lynch scum like you or Wossi.

Why do you scumread me bub

WIFOM, thinking that the miller claim was townie but still thinking he's scum, you tried to buddy me as scum in our earlier game.

Buddying point is good. I can see that, however i buddy as town too


Wifom is not scummy

Miller claim is townie, but the other stuff he did was scummy. That make sense to you?

If you were unsure on if he was scum or town, the town thing to do would be to look elsewhere.

WIFOM is the

circular reasoning

that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

[TwoInAMillion]

Okay cool, three players to add to my townpool.

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm had enough of this.

Too scummy to be scum is another fallacy.

VOTE: Mulch

[TwoInAMillion]

Okay cool, three players to add to my townpool.

Have you noticed that you have bad reads consistently throughout every game

...
Ever wonder why

Absolutely not true.

[TwoInAMillion]

Name one game you've had good day 1 reads


One game

My day 1 reads tend to fluctuate. My record speaks for itself. I could care less what you, especially if you are scum like you seem, think about it.

[TwoInAMillion]

Yeah, my day 1 reads tend to suck. But I'm pretty sure about you here.

[TwoInAMillion]

unvote

I think both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, but I definately don't want day to end early and Wossi's vote on Mulch makes me unsure on which is scummier.

[TwoInAMillion]

unvote

I think both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, but I definately don't want day to end early and Wossi's vote on Mulch makes me unsure on which is scummier.

We're both town

I highly doubt this.

[TwoInAMillion]

Scumreads are now Wossi, Mulch and Sergtacos.

[TwoInAMillion]

unvote

I think both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, but I definately don't want day to end early and Wossi's vote on Mulch makes me unsure on which is scummier.

Umm, he has imaginary meta on me from a game that doesnt exist? That's not a good reason to vote?

Not if it ends the day early.

[TwoInAMillion]

Vote: Wossi

Don't want to put the day in jeopordy, but do want to vote for scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

You know this from your pm or is this a read?

[TwoInAMillion]

I disagree, but I'll keep it in mind. More likely you are scumbuddies.

[TwoInAMillion]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I always love when someone declares themselves locktown.

[TwoInAMillion]

I can see a town mulch. But I still don't like a lot of his reasoning.

[TwoInAMillion]

The fact that he put a smiley face next to his claim tells me he is lying.

[TwoInAMillion]

Why? I'm town. Better to vote someone that was actually on the Mulch lynch.

VOTE: iDannyboy

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: Idanyboy


This guy is scum and will push wossi tomorrow

[TwoInAMillion]

Why? I'm town. Better to vote someone that was actually on the Mulch lynch.

Do you specifically think that the wagon was scum-driven? If so, why? Do you just specifically dislike dany's vote?

The votes near the end of the day are either very meaningful if Lalendra is scum or mostly meaningless if she's town, since she was nominally the counterwagon to mulch. The final vote count is sort of interesting in that a bunch of people (tiam, wave, lalendra, and of course mulch ~_~) are vanity voting. The lalendra wagon had more than two at its peak so I'm not really counting those votes but serg and seph were never really on the table and the wossi wagon mostly fell apart. I can easily see scum on the wagon, or scum off the wagon using vanity votes to hide from having to commit to stances/being on a mislynch. I don't really think the wagon is helpful to analyze right now from the angle of just what people were on it.

Dany's hammer certainly merits some scrutiny. In particular: Dany, when you made your hammer, did you realize the sort of overt scumminess of it, particularly the tone of naked hammering Mulch 20 minutes after he called you scum? Did you realize what you were doing and just didn't care? I'm sort of confused by 789 because I feel like it's obvious what serg is getting at (although of course he can correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not entirely sure what to make of the vote.

I think the people I'm most inclined to look at right now are dany, tiam, flubber and wicked. I feel like all four of them vaguely lurked as the Mulch shenanigans were going down and my reads on them all sort of eroded. I'm open to arguments on wave, serg, and chip but I think there are pretty good reasons to think they're town. Lalendra idk I still think she's townish but can be persuaded on as well. I'm not really sure if the reasons I have for thinking she's town are actually good reasons. skitter and Seph are very town.

Both. I think it was scum driven and I dislike idb's vote because it was last and because of mulch's scumread.

[TwoInAMillion]

Skitter seems townish, she's not afraid to stand up for her opinions and back them up.

iDanny is scummish. He was super active day 1 when he thought he was being townread, and now that some are scumreading him he's lurking.

[TwoInAMillion]

Why are you willing to put Dany into the townpile? Seems strange that you are opinionated on everyone else you are posting about and put Dany into town seemingly on the basis that I am scum reading him.

[TwoInAMillion]

iDanny is scummish. He was super active day 1 when he thought he was being townread, and now that some are scumreading him he's lurking.

His activity fell off mid-d1 pretty hard. He was very active early d1 but was never really under pressure d1 at all that I can remember until his hammer.

His activity may have fell off but its not just quanity I look at its the firmness of your language in your posts.

[TwoInAMillion]

After rereading your point is taken. He pretty much fell of the map after mulch replaced in.

The question is if that is opportunistic or not.

[TwoInAMillion]

How many times does scum say "let's go after actual scum?"

[TwoInAMillion]

I think leandra is trying to get me mislynched.

[TwoInAMillion]

That looks like a scumslip to me

[TwoInAMillion]

Because you acted like mulch was accusing me on Rossi when he was accusing idannyboy and it sounds like you had it in your mind to discredit me rather than honestly read the situation.

And you think idannyboy and I are scumbuddies? What's your logic behind that?

[TwoInAMillion]

Why not? Because you are throwing dice and picking scum?

[TwoInAMillion]

If they flip town there's a point.

[TwoInAMillion]

Well we've lynched 1 town and 0 scum. So that's not true. If you have info you should share it unless it implicates you.

[TwoInAMillion]

That was a non answer.

fos: lalendra

[TwoInAMillion]

I want to vote but don't want to quick hammer.

[TwoInAMillion]

Pretty sure leandra is scum and we can't afford a mislynch.
VOTE: lelendra

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm not scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

Because I know I am town and I think she is scum. Obviously I am not alone in that thought.

[TwoInAMillion]

I am the town backup roleblocker and am now the active roleblocker now that Lelandra has died.

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm not scum, so no.

I have a provable power so lynching me is dumb.

[TwoInAMillion]

I haven't had any targets, I was a backup. NOW I have targets going forward. And yeah, i did have an excuse because I didn't want to be mislynched and Lelandra was acting really scummy.

[TwoInAMillion]

I realize that hammering was not optimal, so I apologize that it had to be done. In hindsight, I obviously would not have done it. I felt like the odds of Lelandra being town vs. the odds of me being lynched necessitated it.

[TwoInAMillion]

Massclaim is probably a good idea.

[TwoInAMillion]

There's no hard evidence on me and lynching me will probably lose us the game. I strongly suggest looking elsewhere.

[TwoInAMillion]

It was likely enough. And I was 75% certain lelandra was scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

I did learn my lesson. This is a different situation. But you are correct that I am town and had town motivation.

[TwoInAMillion]

I've been d1 lynched so I have seen how wagons form, for good and bad reasons.

And I did own my vote. I specifically said that if I could redo the day I wouldn't have done it. But you know crap happens. I had to make a decision and it didn't work out.

I fully understand that could lead to my lynch but I am town and the vote was solely for the purpose of lynching scum and saving town.

[TwoInAMillion]

He's not really on my scumlist. Convince me.

[TwoInAMillion]

Order by username

[TwoInAMillion]

Chip then flub then implosion

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: Chip[/b]

This is not optional. If you don't want to claim it's becuase you're scum and don't have a good fakeclaim.

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: Chip

[TwoInAMillion]

Well if you think town can win in mylo and not have all the info then tell me how and I'm all ears.

[TwoInAMillion]

That's a pretty convenient claim. He could still be a sk.

[TwoInAMillion]

I find it unlikely that he's town due to that he didn't use his shot early on. That would have been the town thing to do as his survival is not gauranteed.

SK motivation is to lay low and assume you'll survive to later on in the game and shoot then.

The fact that he didn't want to claim further incriminates him.

[TwoInAMillion]

Scum/sk tend to lurk, while town do not.

[TwoInAMillion]

I wasn't talking about posting activity, I was referring to use of your role.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't have a gun. Serg is lying. Two investigative roles is VERY unlikely. Scum is probably Serg and either wave imp or Sept and sk chip.

[TwoInAMillion]

Well, I am def not a backup scum rb. When was the last time you saw a scum backup backing up a town? Isn't that kind of bastard?

[TwoInAMillion]

When I flip town and scum kills another town won't that end the game?

[TwoInAMillion]

Because he's lying.

[TwoInAMillion]

Still not scum.

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: serg

Happy?

[TwoInAMillion]

Way to go scum team!