Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[Yetichain]

Hi people! Popping in to confirm. Which I think means we need one more.

Just as a heads up, Yeticrab has not played mafia before


-Key

[Yetichain]

Dreal, if you've got such a strong scumread on nancy, why are you not voting her? It's kind of unnerving the way nobody has voted yet.

Just as a heads up, Yeticrab has not played mafia before

-Key

But have they played town?

She's playing it now!

Actually I'd like to start the game here with some RQS so four questions for everyone borrowed from Regfan:

1) What are your availabilities re: timezone / time of day / posting frequency?
2) What kind of experience do you have with mafia and how does that inform your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting down scum to manipulating town and why?
4) How would you describe your playstyle and is there anything about it you're trying to change this game?

1) We're on NZDT. I'll probably post throughout the day when I get the time, Yeti will probably post in the evening. I'm not a frequent poster, only a few times a day. I tend to consolidate things. Maybe a bit too much.
2) I'm still fairly new, but all my experience is on MS.
3) Hunting scum, oh my goodness. I love the problem solving and I find it much easier to keep up the energy. Playing scum is more of a chore though I do sometimes enjoy the manipulation.
4) Pretty analytical and a wee bit tunnelly. I do really badly at getting reads keeping up on the thread and tend to need to reread and track particular players and how they've been acting over the game. I also go pretty evidence based with quotes and examples. My townplay is very open, which already seems like it might be a problem for dreal. I am trying to wallpost less

I think it's more interesting if ya'll answer for me based on what you know about me.

-V

Nobody took you up on this. I don't think I know enough about you to answer! But I feel like your playstyle is probably most similar to mine in the game. Did you get anything out of the other answers?
VOTE: Jabarkas Mayonnaise


@LUV: Feels like you're being pretty "sit-in-the-corner-and-refuse-to-contribute" right now

[Yetichain]

what do you mean by your "townplay is very open", and why do you think that might be a problem for me?

I mean transparent. I air my reads, I scumhunt in the open. You'll see. In 57 you said not to voice townreads because it gets them killed, that's where I'm getting that from.

If you're more of a sticky voter, your lack of vote makes sense then. You just sounded very sure, to the point of a fake dayvig that you say you normally avoid. Also in 89 there was an ambiguous sentence. It sounded to me like you thought nancy was sad she had rolled scum, but in 116 she says she prefers it. Did I misread?

tend to need to reread and track particular players and how they've been acting over the game.

That just sounds like responsible townplay tbh.

Well then responsible townplay is the only way I can get reads of any kind of quality then It also means I struggle when games are moving quickly and I'm keeping up instead of reading back, and when ISOs are filled with junk. Did I say hello? I've wanted to play with you!

I guess, to be sure:

@Yeti:

Why did you vote me?

-V

It's always good to be sure. This hydra name was a mistake

You were not voted for your refusal to answer questions, or at least not exclusively. You were voted because you've spoken at length on admin but then you clammed up. I thought a friendly vote might help things along. Your answer to that particular question was pretty inconsequential to me, I just wanted more game-relevant content in general.

It's still there because I really don't get 141. On the one hand I disagree, I think RQS can give town a jump on cooperating especially if they're unfamiliar with each other, but also the idea of a power dynamic feels like you pulled it out of literally nowhere - asking questions is a part of the game, or at least it is for me.
Also... it's early game. We're looking to generate discussion. Casting disagreements at this stage as antitown is a bit much, don't you think? I'd think they'd be pretty useful for feeling out other players.

Regarding 139, if it helps, I'd heard your name as a moderator enough to consider you practically famous before seeing you as a player


-Key


PEdit: What an interesting thing to pick out to focus on.

[Yetichain]

Hi Keychain!

Don’t worry about me not answering. You should only be worried if I had or start to do so

Hi LUV! I wasn't only referring to the RQS thing, I would in fact have been pretty surprised if you'd answered them. It bothers me that you're self identifying as more difficult to deal with as town though. Like I said, I think the questions are more useful for town working together than finding scum, which is still important.

I mean you're not... doing... anything. Well, more than that, you're

actively

doing nothing in most of your posts. Getting very much an impression that you're sitting back and waiting for people to dance for your amusement, which is

But I disagree with your Porkens townread, he's giving me iffy feelings so far and it's not because I'm jealous of the readings everyone else is getting He was going to be my vote before I changed my mind and went for the Mayo instead.

Yeti: I like your posts so far.

Um, thanks?

I notice that Porkens has failed to comply with my request to answer my question(why Porkens did town read Jarbakas) again. I recommend everyone to vote Porkens right now. I cannot see any good town reason for Porkens to hide their reasons behind the naked townread. I do however see a scum motivation behind them first ignoring my question, then turning towards me in an attempt to discredit me and even further trying to discredit me when I made a vote and told them to answer: The town read was fake!

Oh, I know it's frustrating when people refuse to answer you, but this is too cut-and-dried. I agree with Porkens 193.

I'm hesitant to go into liftoff and make any real judgment calls on anyone until we've got everyone present, accounted for, and playing. I feel as though the rather vocal amount of players we've got here right now are more likely town than not and that clever scum would just lurk out for awhile and allow bad blood to brew between the talkers, then swipe in when wagons begin, if that makes sense.

-V

It makes sense - easier for scum to let them destroy itself instead of put themselves at risk. But would you class yourself as present, accounted for, and playing, if you're waiting for everyone to be before you really get stuck in?
I think now we're just waiting on one acidphoenix.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Oh no I guess I look nooby too hey Dunkers, nice to see you again.

I'd say that I'm fairly engaged. At the very least, I'm reading every post and responding to what I feel needs it.
You seem to be pretty quick on prodding players and trying to get movement happening, which is cool. What's your beef with porkens? You say 'iffy feelings', but I'd like you to go into more detail, if you can.

-V

Indeed!

I have the feeling that Porkens would be silly as either alignment, so I don't really feel inclined to townread them off that. But some of their posts seem overly guarded to me. Maybe guarded isn't the best word. Cautious? 88, 90 kind of show what I mean, like a feeler then a quick back off. I liked the surface of 187 but the motivation felt more like it was trying to keep NK15 off their back after 184. Little things like that.

nks play seems like his v play; probably v but could be mimicky

Hi acid! I saw this and thought it was interesting. What in particular looks like his town play?
Also what is mimicky?


-Key

[Yetichain]

I don't think I can, it wasn't exactly the epitome of towniness, but I'd much prefer to see if they settle a bit.

uh hi
do i know you?
i've probably played with you i just don't remember sorry

I played scum against you in Titus's Old Music Playlist Mafia. I was in a hydra with NotTheRealPaul under the name Penn and Teller.

@Yetichain:

Why does being guarded make you think porkens is scum, though? Where's the scum motivation to be guarded there?

Scum need to hide their informedness, so are likely to be more careful and less free with their words than they would be as town.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Yeah he siteflaked immediately after that game think he was really busy with school from what I recall him saying.

Keychain, how did transcend know you were scrum in dinner party?

Spoiler: Donner quotes

K but for once can town not lynch the lynchbait on d1 and actually lynch the Mafia

Doggo, pretend I'm not a 5th level player and explain your keychain scumread?

VOTE: Assemblerotws

Naked votes are ehhhh.

I know as much as you do. Something about my first post was a scumclaim to him. Tone maybe?
I don't know why he was so incredibly certain, if that's what you're asking.

What made you change your mind from 193? It seems a lot like you're trying to gauge interest in someone you said you were leaning lynchbait on. NK15 doesn't seem to me like they're going to bleed town.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I wouldn't be too surprised or anything, but I'd be interested to know why. I'm mostly townreading you. Though your posts are pretty dense.

[Yetichain]

Because I expect to get scumread at some point, especially early game. Do you think I should be surprised or something?

So far I've been a bit overexplainy regarding how I play and just kind of chilling, rather than actually scumhunting. Not exactly towntelling here.

Now that I've prepared an answer for you to give me, why would you be hypothetically scumreading my slot?


-Key

[Yetichain]

You what??


Also bye LUV and hi North!

No idea if you should be surprised or not since I've not seen your play before, though you don't seem too too much like the kind of player to get scumread a lot as town.

I don't entirely scumread you, but I am entertaining it; a few small things that stand out like your interactions with Varsoon and your Porkens scumread that are kind of ??? on the level of like, I can kind of see where you're coming from if I squint really hard but mostly I just find it difficult to follow and understand how you're getting from A->B and what you're doing when you get there. Sort of in the same spot I've got Varsoon at the moment.

I see. If there's anything I can clarify for you, let me know.

Additionally, I do not know what they mean with

NK15 doesn't seem to me like they're going to bleed town.

but that's possibly my inexperience.
The post does not look particularly good to me, but I am missing the big scuminess there. What does look bad here?

Keychain I want to know from you what this phrase means, if no one else answers first.

That means that from what I've seen of your play this game, I think you're going to come off as pretty scummy as either alignment. Do you disagree?

Now that the games are over and I can reference them, compare Porkens play here to his play in Paint Mafia Mania:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73434
and Maplewood Village:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73801

The way Porkens has committed to a gimmick here, coupled with the tone and directness of his non-gimmick posts, gives me townvibes since I was witness to similar in those aforementioned games.
That said, I don't really have any scum-Porkens games I've experienced firsthand to hold up to it, so, /shrugs.

-V

Um.
Like I said, I think townreading Porkens for silliness is probably going to be a bad idea, considering it's probably more indicative of Porkens than town. Like what on earth gives you the impression it's not just the way he plays if you have no scum games to compare it to?

Yetichain (hydra of Keychain and Yeticrab) is being her friendly cheerful self, but I've only ever seen her as scum soooooooooo

You've seen me play scum badly and comparatively well, in fact!

Something in your readslist puzzles me. How does

nancy

Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra of Varsoon and Xaio Long)

Yetichain (hydra of Keychain and Yeticrab)
drealmerz7

Not Known 15
dunkerdoodles
acidphoenix
Lil Uzi Vert

lead to

Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra of Varsoon and Xaio Long) is wierding me out because he hasn't played as he usually has in my experience.

? Like this doesn't sound like a townread.


I'm going to regroup a bit maybe later tonight. There might have been something else I was going to respond to but I've forgotten.


-Key (probably going to be just me for now, Yc says she wants to watch over my shoulder for a while but we'll see)

[Yetichain]

@Yeti: I'm saying the silliness is definitely just Porkens-indicative for people who might be thinking otherwise and that, when he's not being silly, his tone strikes me as town-serious.

-V

I nodded at this because it made sense, and then I took another look at it and was pretty puzzled considering that you really don't appear to be saying that at all in 323.

The way Porkens has committed to a gimmick here, coupled with the tone and directness of his non-gimmick posts, gives me townvibes since I was witness to similar in those aforementioned games.

Here it seems pretty clear you're saying you find the combination of his silly+serious posts is similar to the other games, where he was town. You're not distinguishing between the two and you're not saying silliness is NAI for Porkens, considering it's your reason for townreading him.

Also I remembered the thing I wanted to say before but it's okay, I figured out who Not Clown is.

Dunkers is almost all filler and hopalong. His vote on you seemed opportunistic to me.

I don't trust him.

So you spotted an additional problem. Hmm... but I am not sure that this is indicative of Dunker being scum. But yes you cannot trust Dunker. And you cannot trust their reads. At all. They are definitely a suitable candidate, and they absolutely need to be lynched before LyLo if we cannot clear them.

I can't say that lynching players you don't think are scum is a great idea. This post was pretty sketch in general.

Varsoon is posting differently. I think it's weird. Nevertheless, i Townsend him. I have a lot of bias about him, so that's my confusion.

What's your bias here and why are you townreading them?

she's been super town in every game that she\s been town with me, thats all.

she hasnt posted enough to get a read off of for me.

but if eel like im gunna townread her if she posts the same way she has previous.

Dunkers... I know its a crap read. hes.....................................likely town?

like I dunno, im clueless

If she's been super town every time she's town, you don't reckon that might make her an easier read in that she's going to have a harder time as scum given how town she looks as town? I usually find it's the players who don't look too town even when they're town that are the harder ones to read.

drealmerz7 went head to head with nancy. I don't know about how to read him, but my impression was ......... null. haha.

nancy seems the same as drealmerz. I have no clue. sorry.

Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra of Varsoon and Xaio Long) uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh cant read. so much babbling about tech and start, scumhunting? naw. cant say as he has.

Yetichain (hydra of Keychain and Yeticrab) so middle of the road. dunno how to read. grrr.


acidphoenix scummier than usual. lurkier than usual. not saying stuff with posts.

dunkerdoodles about the same as last game i played with. was town there. dunno

Not Known 15 so far up my ass im super biased. dude, seriously. whatever.

northsidegal Lil Uzi Vert uhhhhhhhhhh dunno but maybe scum? maybe not, but maye.

Are you okay Porky? you seem to be having a crisis. I'm not sure what the entire point of this post was. You also appear to have thrown out all of your reads.

Well what bothered me about her entrance was that she immediately went to talking about her precedessor which is ??? because it's a very questionable way of reading into anyone's alignments and there's a bunch of mafia motivation there in that you're going to want to defuse scumreads on your slot first and foremost; I've seen newbies do the same thing and it's not a 100% tell but it's definitely not a great way to enter the game.

This is fair. Especially because looking at LUV's ISO it would have been pretty clear why there might have been scumreads on him. And especially for someone following the game, having nothing else to comment on is odd.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I definitely want a reaction to your last, interesting post here, Yeti. From those who are deemed questionable.

I can't say that lynching players you don't think are scum is a great idea. This post was pretty sketch in general.

Hmmm but I don't know if Dunker is town or scum. They could be both. I only said it was probably not indicative for scum(dunker). Not that it is indicative for town(dunker). And if they are town, they have a high chance of messing up. In my opinion, Dunker is unreadably anti-town every time; at least that is what their games suggest.

Are you buddying me? Considering how you've treated every other slot in the game, the way you seem to lack even a shred of suspicion towards me is odd.

Just as bad how?

Sparse and non-committal, though it's as if Acid is a non-entity, whereas LUV was actively dodgy and LUV's replace was one-note so far.

@Yetichain:

Ah, well, I definitely meant the latter. Like, you asked for clarification on what I meant and the latter is clarification on what I meant. Jabarkas doesn't always words good.

-V

When I ask for clarification I don't expect a complete change in meaning.

On Jabarkas, it's half Varsoon. We had beef recently when he jumped at me/used my play style as reasons to try to lynch me in two previous games, it got heated. We are cool now, but these coherent paragraphs are a far cry from the insults and bad attitude I've experienced from him previous. So I'm emotionally glad that we aren't fighting any more. On the other hand, it's such a departure that I don't know how to deal with it. So wispy washy on my part, I know.

I saw him react to your playstyle in Paint. You are being nowhere near as troublesome here as you were there, so I don't know why you'd expect him to be jumping down your throat about it?

Like, holy shit, am I the only motherfucker in this game who knows how to play mafia and actually wants to play this game? Because every one of you chumps is dialing in the most lackluster performance possible.

-V

Hmm hmm. This feels out of nowhere. Raging over the gamestate does nothing to change it, voting a lurker does very little. Is your hydra buddy around? Are they half as scummy as you?


-Key

PEdit: gosh, there's some ripples in the water. I approve of the Jabarkas vote for now.

[Yetichain]

Hi I've been out most of the weekend and I just skimmed the last few pages. I seem to be a key talking point in North v Jabarkas and I want to get in on that.

I'll make a better case on Jabarkas when I get home because I don't think I've made myself clear judging by what's been said and I'm still feeling scum there. I also need to sort out how I feel about the rest of the playerlist. My apologies for being kind of absent.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Look after yourself, nancy!

I kind of hate your vague 'casing' and the fact you'll double down with being clear, but, lol, not right now, gotta spend some time to make sure you sound real town when you explain your scum push.
Maybe instead of casing me out, you can address the questions and comments addressed to you, then you could maybe weigh in on any one of the dozen other things happening in this game rather than trying to recoup game momentum into an anti-Jabarkus push.


-V

I can't post on buses, I get motion sickness, you're lucky you got what you did. I prefer to be thorough rather than posting off the cuff, because that's when my reads get really bad. I've already said this. I don't know why you'd expect otherwise.

And no, I don't think I'm going to just dismiss my scumread on you just because you threw an absolute hissy and claimed you were somehow being persecuted for "playing the game". That was after... two votes on you? You signed up to a micro with two week deadlines, my friend. It sounds like the level of activity you want would be more blitz-style, but hey that's not really my interest here. I don't have a great sense of game momentum, and the idea that you'd think it has relevance on my pushes at this point is kind of perplexing to me anyway.

I'll search for Key* and Yeti* and see if I catch all the questions for me, and then I'll go through your ISO to explain my scumread on you so you can stop spinning it in such bizarre ways (though I'll accept some of the blame for that - I should have caught those misconceptions as they arose and not let them fester for so long), and then I'll get the sleep I really need because I'm running on empty. How is that?

Okay, first, questions. The only thing addressed to me since my last post appears to be your own 390. It sounded like there would be more from the way you put it, did I miss something you wanted me to respond to?

@Yetichain: I don't see that the meaning is changed significantly, just your interpretation of it which, hey, that's the point of elaboration, is it not?
I don't know why Xiao's posted all of, like, one or two times, though he's not nearly as vocal a player as I am. I can give him a bit of a shakeup and tell him to engage with the game if you want, but, y'know, I'm here now, so why even deflect like that to my hydra partner. In fact, why even say something like, "Is your hydra buddy around? Are they half as scummy as you?"

Also, you're literally fucking wrong about the 'raging about the gamestate' bullshit that you're putting out, because it's very obvious within just the last two pages, based on my actions and the reactions of others, that the game state HAS changed dramatically. So, y'know, maybe don't literally deny the reality of the situation in order to spout a platitude to defend a vote you have and give platform to the replace-in who's parroting you and yes-manning your wagon.

-V

No, the point of me asking you to elaborate is because I thought the approach you were coming from was wonky and rather than you going "oh yes this is why I think the way I do" and either reaffirming it or visibly changing your mind, you appeared to retcon it to something more reasonable. Sketchy.

Secondly, I enjoy playing in hydras and I find the dynamics really interesting, which was why I asked after your partner. Plus I've not played with him before and I do like meeting new players. I did note he voiced a townread on me in 452 and you voted me despite that in 488, but I've no idea if it's AI for you two.

Re: raging about the gamestate bullshit... wow. That fury, isn't it just so warm and friendly and very like someone who is hunting for scum and not completely flipping out at getting scumread? Yeah I didn't think so either That said, it's not always AI, sometimes townies get their counterproductive rage on. So I'll look at the pages you were referring to because there's nothing like a bit of evidence to clear this kind of thing up.

Okay. So it seems the activity pg14 was Porkens and NK15, then things went quiet. The thing is that every single one of your posts around here is super amiable, including the ones where I was trying to prompt you into something by asking questions. It was weird to me and kind of like I was sliding off glass so I might have made a bit of a more antagonistic comment to see if I could goad you into something.
Your 370 was instep with Porkens's 368. And this is where I mean you're going after lurkers instead of engaging any of the perfectly nice players already hanging around. Lurker pressure is such an easy way to look town - after all, you're "generating content"! But in reality you've already passed up opportunities to engage, and you're zeroing in on a place where you're least likely to get anything.

You say in 375 that you're doing it because you don't have any way to read Acid without content. Fair. But that presumes you already had a read on all the more active players - otherwise, why weren't you focusing on

them

? It looked like you were waiting for a more easy push, and Porkens paved the way.

Then 376... I hate buzzwords so I'll avoid the one I want to use here but you use your push on a lurker to put yourself on a pedestal instead of

engaging the flaming active players.

You do like a complete 180 in tone and it's bizarre. You go from pleasant and not making waves to suddenly thrashing about all over the place. You're not making anything happen. North votes you shortly after and you continue this rage. Not much of note happens between that and the question you directed to me - in particular, a lack of any content from Acid which is where you were pushing - where you claim credit for things happening in the earlier pages despite the fact that your raging had actually appeared that very page. The only thing that happened was North voting you.

So in summary... you appear to be literally denying the reality of the situation to discredit scumreads on you, and if you disagree I'd rather you provide evidence instead of more of whatever this was. And don't get your knickers in a twist over me approving of a vote on my scumread, like what game are you playing mate? This is mafia and I want my scumreads lynched or at least under pressure, not lightly jostled. I need to take a closer look at North because I think as scum she'd absolutely follow my push on replace in, but those are separate things. In the meantime, why don't you scumhunt instead of focusing on scrapping with players scumreading you?


Oh it seems I condensed most of my explanation of my scumread of you into my answer to your question. That's probably good, I've probably written enough words for now. I've got more stuff to say and do in this game tomorrow, I need to get a better picture of the whole table before I go any further with this scumread. I'm feeling energetic. Isn't that nice?


-Key

[Yetichain]

It's not really OMGUS? NK15 was scumreading Porkens early on and Porkens returned the favour, repeatedly saying that his read was possibly influenced by the fact that NK15 was scumreading him.


@Jaba 511: Okay If we both think each other is scum and nobody is going to read our argument, we're just making meaningless noise. I still do think you're scum but I'll do other things for now.


I went through the quieter half of the players, so Acid, Dunkers, North-slot and NK15. Out of the four Acid is most town and I'm not really interested in lynching him today. He seemed fairly driven once he started talking and his claim makes way more sense to me coming from town rather than scum, though NK15's reaction suggests it could have been rolefishing. But nah, not into that lynch.

NK15's lack of suspicion towards me still bothers me a lot, but I really don't know that scum would have had such a fierce reaction to Acid's claim. I think they might be someone that I'm inclined to scumread regardless of alignment just off posting style so my read will need to depend more on actions like that instead. I don't think I'd like a lynch there either.

Dunkers kind of feels like scum, 342 in particular. 466 and 489 were a whole lot of wtf for me, but that might be because I'm not convinced that wagons stalling indicates scum at all. But I don't know what to do with 494 and 495.

North could easily be scum here. Not sure.

@North

, what is your read on me?

Here's a thing.

Some folks said that they "got their first choice" for pick. I got an amalgam of my 3 choices. Although, I picked 3 that I felt meant somethign together, and FF may have picked up on that and done my role accordingly?

The Tarot uPick Design Process

• Assign Significator Card: This will be your first choice card unless someone else chose the card before you did. In that case, your Significator will be your second choice, unless that has also been chosen as a first choice. Then it's on to your third choice. If that is also taken it's time for 52-Pickup! All three cards taken has never happened, even in the Large Theme Tarot uPick, so hopefully it won't happen here.
  
• Design the roles
  based on all three cards
  - This happens BEFORE the random alignment assignment. This means that any Significator card can be any alignment, and any Role based on the cards can be any alignment.
  
• Roll the random alignments
  
• Modify roles if needed for balance

Roles are based off all three cards but you should have a single Significator.


-Key

[Yetichain]

VOTE: northsidegal

Really struggling here. 642 came across as pretty fake to me though, on top of my previous tentative scumread.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Prod received. Sorry I had... a bit of a moment. There's ten pages to catch up on so I'm skimming.

Most important thing is that we're both going to be V/LA for the next couple days with no internet access which is over deadline I think. Sorry again. So tonight is all I've got. I'll see what I can do.

I'm partway through and it looks like NK15 is top wagon judging from most recent VC. I don't know if they've claimed yet or the wagon has died but if they're still on the line I think that is a really really bad idea.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I don't think the way they've softed their role comes from scum ever and I also don't believe they have a scum role. Not willing to discuss it further than that at this point, I'm sorry but I truly don't think it's a good idea. I've played like absolute rubbish thus far though, so I understand if you're not willing to take it on faith.

I'm all skimmed up and now I have some things to answer I believe.

[Yetichain]

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

These questions can be answered in one, though as I've just said it doesn't matter and I'm not going to be voting here. You don't have to scumread me but when players lack suspicion towards me, I have little alarm bells that go off in my head. Town doesn't know who to trust -> suspicion is towny -> lack of suspicion is scummy, is the basic breakdown.

[Yetichain]

VOTE: northsidegal

Really struggling here. 642 came across as pretty fake to me though, on top of my previous tentative scumread.


-Key

what about it seems fake? why do you think i would fake that as scum?

I have no doubt that you would be meticulous as scum and those are very well notes you could have made. It's that opening the hood, in a way, trying to show the thought process underneath feels odd from you and not an approach I would expect if you were town.

Another reason that I've found hard to articulate is that you've seen me play as town and I don't believe you've mentioned the fact that I'm playing very differently. I just got prodded, for chrissakes. The fact that you're somehow drawing parallels to my usual play feels like you're not recognising those differences in your notes. I know that I view playstyles very differently when I'm playing town or scum, making it hard to apply knowledge across alignments, and I've been lynched as scum before for it so I remember the lesson. You've only ever been town in games with me.

This observation probably wouldn't have been as meaningful to me if you hadn't indicated in your notes that you were considering our past games. It's always an exercise in ego to assume someone knows your meta well enough to recognise you're town, but I don't understand why you aren't more suspicious of me here.

You seem to be approaching me somewhat shallowly and it feels more like buddying than anything. Can't remember, were you scumreading me at any point, can you link any posts?


PEdit: working on it @NK15 + nancy

[Yetichain]

Okay so where does that leave me?

Yetichain
NK15

Porkens
nancy
acidphoenix

---

Dunkers
drealmerz7

Jabarkas
North


Something like this, I think. Off the top of my head.

nancy, what would you define as content? I can go further into my reads if you like. In doing so they'll probably shift around.

[Yetichain]

Okay! Top of my mind are you and Porkens because there's certain solid things that are making me townread you.

Townread on you is partially due to your certainty that you'll be nightkilled. If you know you're not going to be, then shouting it now just sets you up for having to explain it away later.

Townread on Porkens is primarily because of rapid read changes, especially whichever post that was where he went from reads to a whole lot of question marks and unsurety. It's a bold move as scum to do that so early on.

The rest are either things I've already said and need to revisit (acid, Jabarkas) or just feelings (Dunkers, dreal).

The acid read in particular is still a hangover from the last superficial lookover I gave him. I'll focus on that first.

[Yetichain]

Yup I can do that.

[Yetichain]

Oh yeah acid's 417 gave me severe townvibes, just the whole "I'm interested in finding someone good to talk with" seems pretty towny but could easily be a scum neighbouriser I suppose, just seems like he wouldn't have outed it in that case. That was pretty much it - he doesn't give a lot to work with, but he should be about in the next 24 hours (though he went V/LA in 544). What little he did say felt like it had forward push though, like 247 he looks like he is interested in having the substance behind the points and a couple of times he seems to have done a background research. Like he seems like he's at least somewhat interested in finding the answers, even though his overall activity indicates otherwise.

Though wtf where does that gut townread on me come from I'd like to get an explanation for that


Incidentally nancy, I've only ever specced one game with Regfan but you two have very similar writing styles. Just the way you drop some of your subjects, like the 'I's, and sometimes the 'it's as well I think. Is that deliberate?


Porkens next.

[Yetichain]

The Porkens post I'm talking about is 348. He went from budding reads on several players in 303 to starting over again. That attempt to get a grip on the gamestate and then failing and restarting again is not something I would expect from scum?

In 357 he mentions that he'll "just have to throw ideas around till something feels righter", which was a major marker of what I saw as really worrying about him when he was town and I was scum in the game mentioned in 274. I would expect more solidity from scum building mislynches or associations or what have you, it just seems pretty out there for him to pretty much scrap them and start over.


I'll get to your response in a sec.

[Yetichain]

Why does he need to out his role in order to find someone good to neighborize? I don't understand this line of reasoning from you very well.

I find the point about background research in 247 to be pretty weak since that's relatively easy to fake and moreover he didn't really follow up with the read once I showed him where I had seen drealmer emotionally invested in theorytalk as mafia, but it looks like that's a minor point for you so I'm fine with that I guess?

I don't understand why you're so emphatic about townreads on you not making sense? Why do you think you deserve to be scumread so much?

I'm nothing like Regfan he's a complete and utter noob how dare you. No it isn't intentional his bad habits must be rubbing off on me a bit I guess I've been spending too much time around him recently. >:[

First point is true but why would he do it as scum? It's the motivation that looks towny to me. Neighbourisers don't have to out themselves to get a good target but I don't know how well he's been following the game so claiming to get offers might have made sense to him. The result was that you outright asked him to neighbourise you. You're right in that his investment isn't strong but I'm not inclined to scumread him for that, it's like... if he hasn't provided much in the way of contribution I won't have a lot to inform my read either way. Not married to this read though I'm still leaning town.

re: not liking townreads on me - for one in this game I think I've been playing really badly. I'm in a micro and for pretty much the entire Day I've ignored the majority of the playerlist and instead gotten enmeshed in this one scumread which was literally the only thing that motivated me to keep posting. Despite this Acid has this town gutread on me which I don't understand at all, he's not given a reason and I find strong unreasoned townreads often come from scum, tied in with the suspicion thing I was talking about regarding NK15. North on the other hand seems to be townreading me with parallels to past games which like I said, I find really odd. I don't know, my estimation of my play this game could be spilling over from my overall headspace right now. Being suspicious of townreads on me is pretty usual though.

But I might have to check timing to see what I had posted as of these townreads, the Acid one at least was pretty early.

[Yetichain]

Yeah but they're always worth looking into - I find scum develop strong unreasoned townreads on me often enough (in my handful of games where I actually rolled town, disclaimer) to make it a good place to look from my perspective.

Like I'm leaning town on him, so evidently I don't think it's unequivocally scum. Also hello!

[Yetichain]

Not a point you made so much as a point I should take into account!

Okay so assuming Acid is certainly a neighbouriser.

scum!Acid has the motivation to presumably find someone he thinks he could pocket, I've only seen a scum neighbouriser once and that seemed to be the way to go about it. In addition to that, he will have a scum partner who can suggest options for a target even if he himself is not caught up on the game. I don't see why, in this situation, he'd be claiming and getting expressions of interest since he has no need for that extra information. Like it means he's claimed in case it's relevant later, I guess, but not sure that's worth it. He could be a scum neighbouriser but I don't believe that he'd play it this way, so the townread holds. It's just something I didn't think of earlier but now I've considered it I'm still happy with this conclusion.

town!Acid only has himself to rely on, he seems to be busy with RL, he's got a neighbouriser and he doesn't know who to use it on. This scenario seems considerably more likely to result in him claiming the way he did. Like it suggests he has a lack of information if that makes sense, which I consider town-indicative.


If the townread came first I guess it could make sense in that context then but it is still something I'd really super like to hear more from him about - that's something I still find an interesting starting point regardless of my own perception of my play in any single game. Not much else I can really do with it from there without more from him unfortunately.


Do you have a vested interest in me changing this read or are you sorting me?

[Yetichain]

That's fine! I'm going away tomorrow, so not sure of the chances but one can always hope.

[Yetichain]

Okay I'm out of time unfortunately. I'm leaving my vote on my most confident scumread but I'll try and check when I wake up in case there's somewhere more useful to put it.

@Mod: V/LA until Monday

One more thing - I won't be around to claim it if necessary and it's important for you to know in case you decide to lynch me at the very last second that we are Loved for Day 1 and require six votes to lynch.

[Yetichain]

VOTE: Jabarkas Mayonnaise

[Yetichain]

We also have a possible explanation for the no kill. I strongly disbelieve Dunkers is scum today.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Bye Acid!

nancy, how can you simultaneously consider Dunkers as looking decently clear and also being one of the easiest lynches?

WIFOM he give acid a doublevote?

I'm kind of ignoring that right now.


North, I know you're limited access for a bit, but you've made multiple statements about wanting to talk to me. I can't remember - was there anything in particular that you wanted?

I think there was something at the end of D1. I'll check.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I'm also interested in what makes you lean the other way on NK15/acid, dreal.

could you talk more specifically about how different you've been this game as compared to previous ones?

Oh this. I could but I don't think it's particularly relevant because it's more down to me feeling fairly awful at the moment. I can elaborate if you think it will help you sort me but I'll leave it for now.


Can other players please voice reads on dreal and Porkens? My preferred lynch is in there right now but I need to think more on it.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Welcome garaputo!

Hmm, okay. That nancy flip came from out of left field.

Don't think the EoD vote on Varsoon is clearing since they were pretty much forced to vote him there or look very badly for it given that they they had stated him as their 2nd strongest scumread and I messaged them privately and asked them to vote him.

I suppose I should make my counterargument public as well.

I was on V/LA. If my plans had not fallen through I would have had no internet and therefore would actually not have been able to do what you asked. If we were distancing, we were already sufficiently distanced without me making that last little push to get them lynched - I had exactly no reason to pop in to vote them if we were partners when I could have just ignored your message with

no repercussions whatsoever

and had a chance of keeping my partner around. I strongly dislike losing my scumbuddies, partly because I dislike playing scum and it makes LyLo just that much further away, but you can't know that. Instead, you think I made a really big effort to lynch my ninja partner?

Like you say I would have looked very badly for it. Uh, no. I wouldn't.

In addition, small point, both heads had stated different reads on me and it was weird - if we were partners I would expect more of a united front in regards to my slot.

I don't see Porkens hammering his scumbud there at all

Fair

I SR LUV's replace out really hard btw

Why? I kind of townread it.


-Key

[Yetichain]

... North, I was on V/LA at the time, please read 1102.

quick thoughts – i think yetichain is almost certainly town here, same with porkens. if yeti and jm were teamed i don't see why she votes him at the end of the day yesterday. for porkens, i don't think jm would get as frustrated as he did if it was his partner voting him. i think dunk is scum, however, and it goes along with that last point. compare these two interactions:

Spoiler: reaction to porkens

I'm going to offer this alternative:

VOTE: Jabarkas Mayonnaise

Reason: Masterminding.

Evidence: Every post.

Theory: Scum trying to use his cache to lynch easy newbs.

Full disclosure:

redacted

Aight then.
Nevermind that most the players in this game have 2017 joindates, homie.
Or that I'm trying to actually figure shit out rather than just making easy newb-lynch pushes.
But ayy fuck me, right?

-V

Like, if you're going to jump on my back and give me shit for fucking playing the game and accuse me of masterminding or some dumb bullshit like that when, otherwise, no one was really fucking playing the game, fuck you.
Seriously, legitimately, fuck you.
Fuck anyone who thinks it's alignment-indicative to want to play the fucking game of mafia.
Keep that shit up and I'm just going to replace out or some shit, I can't handle that kind of backwards bullshit.

-V

I've literally been pushing two players so far and neither of those pushes have been with full intent to lynch, but, rather, using my vote as pressure while I try to figure out the game.
It's really annoying, as a player, to sign up for a game, then because I want to play the game, to be potentially removed from that game because people think wanting to play the game is scummy.
That shit drives me up a wall.

-V

Spoiler: reactions to dunk

VOTE: Jabarkus
voting here for now

Could you elaborate, or are you just jumping on the largest wagon because...?


-V

Could you elaborate, or are you just jumping on the largest wagon because...?


-V

just want to change things up a little

I'm fairly certain literally every player has voiced a willingness to vote me/scumread me so far today.
So, like, let's just get that shit over, I guess.

-V

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

Yeah the Jabarkas/Dunkers associatives are not good. Do you have other scumreads?

Thanks for the welcome, I'm going to admit upfront that the rest of this has nothing to do with the remainder of your post, saving the signature -Key

FWIW: I've actually played in a 2HeadedGiant mafia in a different forum, but I must admit - I'm still unused to accounts that have multiple people playing in them as single entity.

I've said all that to ask a basically pedantic question: Is signing a post -Key something that is done to certify the author? How certain of it should I be?

I ask because I can see my

normal

usual self attempting to assess the motivations of each post author independently.

Also, can I assume that you (collectively) will not falsely attribute authorship to one another?

I guess regardless of that answer my plan is to focus on the content of the game slot but yeah, I'm curious about these things.

Hello!

My main account is Keychain, and I've been using the signature -Key as a courtesy so people know I'm posting. My hydra partner has not made a single post, she's just watching over my shoulder and we're discussing the game so she can learn. So you're essentially just dealing with me and can treat me as a single player. I'm still signing because habit.

You can't be certain, no. But as a general rule I think you can trust it unless you have a good reason not to from context.

Think it's a slot I'd reconsider in LyLo but probably not before then and hopefully I'm right on Yetichain here and the game ends with their lynch today

so you don't have to think about it.

(bolding mine)

*cough, splutter*

nancy don't be scum pls
Also if you lynch me today game goes on so please don't discourage other players from using their noodles today.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Before I claim I need everyone to claim if they visited me last night or not.

We did not visit you last night.

I'll be back later tonight.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Oh I'm so glad to oblige. I think I buy it; I don't think there's scum there. However I don't understand how the crumb makes sense with the role, and I'd prefer it to be explained in full.

you should say more things and so on

oops i meant to say that in the scum pt

Yes dead partners are soooo quiet aren't they?

Ok.
There is one more thing I want to talk about before I claim...
Should we do a massclaim or not?
We already have an outed power role(Acid the neighbourizing jailkeeper); but what is more interesting is that the one who didnt want claims was Jarbakas, and Jarbakas was scum.
A related question is how we'd do it(I prefer popcorn)
and another related question is how we claim our card(s), especially the most important card(e.g. Tower) that is supposed to be unique.
The claim would definitely start with me claiming my role.
We could seperate the card claim from it, because reasons(you'll have to decide if you want to popcorn for cards or the rest; also we have more motivation to go for).
What do you all say?
I support a massclaim now.

I'm also going to disagree with the massclaim. Not yet, as much as I want to figure out night actions. Also can you explain what you're talking about with the cards? They're NAI because we picked them before the alignment roll, and Jabarkas was the Tower if I'm understanding correctly.

Ok...
Only claiming my card(s) on further request:

I am a
1.self-sensing ascetic. I know what is intended to hit me at night, and last night no one visited. Sadly, no one fell for the trap and claimed visiting me.
2.Dead-Neighbourizer. If you look back at my ISO when I was about to be hammered I made some posts related to that (1. Dunker 2.No contribution=sus)
Dead-Neighbourizer means that I neighbourize someone upon my own death.

Why do you think massclaim helps town here?

Because Jarbakas( who was scum) didn't want a massclaim, and I think that indicates that scum have to lose something to a massclaim. Whether it is info or sth else, dunno.

I'm kind of interested in your cards but I don't think it will help at all because I don't know if I could sniff out a fakeclaim by knowing your picks. It's more just a personal curiosity.


-Key

[Yetichain]

However I don't understand how the crumb makes sense with the role, and I'd prefer it to be explained in full.

nevermind I should use my brain more than once every second Tuesday I figured it out

[Yetichain]

I think it wouldn't be too hard to make a fakeclaim even tangentially based on your Significator enough to look legit, versus the risk of claiming a Significator that isn't yours.


nancy's asked me to explain my read change on Porkens.

So I don't remember how much I said but very early on I had a scumread on Porkens because he

lost his reading on me

seemed to just be spinning his wheels and being social more than scumhunting. No forward thrust.

I'm rereading now and for the most part... ugh. I really don't know, I could go either way. It's just little things, and little things are enough to erode a wavering read. 894's appeal to North comes across weird to me. 1022 bothers me just because I was saying the thing more as a "whoa acid buddy that's not necessarily a guilty you have there" and was not intending to elaborate.

1032 rubbed me the wrong way which I now realise is silly given that I've been saying a very similar thing about my play but more to the point I think it's odd because he got pretty townread across the board iirc?

Bad reasons but I can't shake it. I'm also up... considerably later than is wise so I may go further into this later.


In the meantime I do agree with the North read - I think that choosing quotes from when she was in gamesolving mode is possibly cherrypicking a wee bit like she said, particularly knowing the context of one of them, but otherwise yeah.

VOTE: northsidegal


-Key

[Yetichain]

Pretty sure the problem is already clear.

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

hardclaim

xshot

neighborizing jailkeeper

jk'd dunker

(bolding mine)


North your lack of reaction to my vote makes me sad. Your 1289 also seems like you're trying to mimic your towngame more than you're trying to

play

, if that makes sense.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Yeti's explanation for the no-kill is that she thought that NK15 crumbed hider targeting Dunker, mafia picked up on the crumb, and shot at Dunker in the hopes of a double kill.

uh what? no it's not. Yes, that's what I think happened, but North's 1307 holds, the Dunkers JK is not the only possible reason for the no kill.

Jailkeepers don't get guilties, Dunkers being the kill

target

was already an obvious possible explanation. If that was what it was, I'd have just said that when acid voted him at daystart.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I have a couple of things.

If garaputo is scum, there is

no explanation

for the no kill apart from acid not submitting a kill, which is very unlikely. It wouldn't have been my doing. Which nancy already knows.
So unless someone has another possible reason for the no kill, I'm strongly against his lynch today.


Secondly

dunk, could you say what you were talking about in 494?

not without claiming

also i'm vt

jabarkus and nk15 both said this game was role madness which means they obviously had pr roles and i thought them thinking it was role madness made them them more likely to be mafia

1300 is just a lie? He claimed VT and his reason for thinking that was not role related at all, I don't know why he'd cover like that.

Vote: Dunkerdoodles

Jail Yetichain tonight the slot is wolfy as fuck.

I'm 100% on board with jailing me if we don't lynch scum today, it's not worth it to scum to no kill again to guilty me instead of taking a better shot, so there'll probably be a kill and I will be as clear as I can get.

nancy please

anybody that sheeps this is basically scumclaiming

This response to the vote is pretty rubbish though :/ why's it a scumclaim?

Here's a novel idea.

Everyone in the game posts a readslist.

And if they're feeling adventurous... a line of reasoning!

Town:
nancy, garaputo, Not Known 15

Confused feelings:
Porkens, drealmerz7

Scum:
Dunkerdoodles, northsidegal


-Key

Also Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

[Yetichain]

Like, if there's no other explanation for the lack of a kill then Dunker is confirmed scum. You keep saying there is another explanation. And if there is another explanation then why do you have NK15 and garaputo as townreads? But now you're saying there's not another explanation??????

what.



Calm your farm and think it through.

I told you that if

acid

was scum that I didn't know what caused the no kill because it wouldn't have been me. Don't generalise beyond that point.

I thought I'd given you the information you needed (JK was not necessarily the cause of the no kill because it might have been me, if acid/garaputo is scum I didn't cause the no kill so it must have been something else) but clearly it's just causing more harm than good. I'm happy to claim if it will clear things up.

I have garaputo as a townread because if I caused the no kill, he is not scum, and if he caused the no kill, he is not scum. If we are the only two who could have caused the no kill which seems apparent so far, then my conclusion is that he is not scum.

I have NK15 as a townread because I townread them and their roleclaim.

VOTE: yetichain
i like this actually

Yes okay... so why did you say in 1300 you couldn't explain 494 without claiming when you clearly could?


-Key

[Yetichain]

We also have a possible explanation for the no kill.

We roleblocked drealmer N1. Possibilities after the no kill with mine and garaputo's claims are

1. Dunkerdoodles was targeted for the kill and was jailed
2. Dunkerdoodles is scum and was jailed
3. drealmerz7 is scum and was roleblocked

I'm not as dead certain as nancy claims to be, I think there's the possibility of North shooting Dunkers, but I'm certainly not opposed.

VOTE: drealmerz7


-Key

[Yetichain]

oh geez

I'll try and deal with this stupid shit tomorrow

I guess I'll just claim

geez wtf, talk about lameass wagon

the hermit
seeking neighborizer - find a specific significator and we form a hood and gain an ability (not saying which significator or ability, if I even know them)

I believe the roleblock (not that it's necessarily town, at all) because my result on seeking N1 was as if I coudn't perform the seeking action

I have questions.

Who did you target N1?

Why aren't you fullclaiming when you're on the verge of getting lynched?

And what do you mean your result? The way you describe your role I would assume you'd either succeed or fail, so what made you think you failed due to roleblock instead of due to your target not being correct?

Also 1425, which is presumably referring to 1036, would be a nice post to answer, since you've posted since then.


If it's a lameass wagon you could absolutely be arguing for one of the other possibilities. Nobody is stopping you except you.


garaputo, confirm you'll be jailing me (or another target but preferably me) tonight before you hammer.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I don't think nancy's scum and I also don't understand why the dreal wagon died. I think that is far more likely to hit scum than a last minute flashwagon. Like

refusing to answer any questions regarding his claim and instead accusing the town of "dillydallying" reads pretty scum motivated to me.

I especially don't like the wagon on garaputo. Still. People who think he's scum (like

@drealmerz7 1457

), are you assuming acid pulled a no kill gambit with a JK claim? How else are you explaining the lack of kill?
I don't really think garaputo is scummy enough to overcome that.

VOTE: drealmerz 7
(This might or might not be hammer, we have the Woman of Crystals and the doublevote so there are a total of 10 possible votes)
I look at these things after hammer and I want to see a flip.

If Dunker isn't dead tomorrow

we need to think about them

sorry wait what did I miss why would you assume the VT claim might be dead tomorrow?

ok whatever
VOTE: garaputo

... not a fan of this sheep


-Key

[Yetichain]

Okay I've pared my questions down to the ones I do really want answered so if you could stop stonewalling me that would be lovely. I'm trying to see if you're town here and you're giving me nothing but AtE.

Firstly: What about your result made you think you were roleblocked instead of just failing to get the right target or failing to submit an action at all? That's weird but I don't know anything about your results, which is why I'm asking.

Secondly:

nancy, I want to claim a bit, it's relevant-ish

Explain this post please. What did you want to claim?


I also have a strong preference for you fullclaiming, in particular regarding the card you're seeking.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Oh and happy birthday Porkens!

[Yetichain]

Can confirm garaputo neighbourised me last night.

I'm cool with the lynch if Dunker flips green as long as I can read an catch up. What scum slips did Nancy have in your opinion?

If Dunkers flips green it makes considerably more sense to lynch Porkens because you're right and he's not confirmed town.

I am a novice role cop and dunes ain't vt.

I'm happy to treat this as a guilty - Porkens, if it's fake, please retract it now. What results did you get?


Dunkerdoodles, you want to try claiming again?


I'd also be in favour of a massclaim at this point I think. There's been another no kill and I don't understand unless it's just

Greetings. I was successfully able to neighborhood Yetichain last night.

VOTE: yetichain
start here i suppose?

for this.


Also @NK15: I was Loved day 1, not North.


-Key

[Yetichain]

nk15

you're literally contradicting yourself there
if my town play is "usually scummy" (which i don't think it is), i must be town by meta right?

yet you keep pushing me for this, not even commenting on my play this game and relying on "meta"

I was writing a post and then this happened. I would have expected maybe a comment on the Porkens result.

It's bad reasoning from NK15 sure but no, being scummy does not make you town.

@Dunker - Just answer this - no more and no less: does you role possess a negative utility that can hurt town?

?
not sure of the purpose in this question - typically on ms negative utility is claimed in the first post
My question - Dunkers, why did you lie about your role?


Incidentally, scum on ms can frequently use both their PR and make the kill at the same time so that road leads nowhere, and I personally find scum!Gara incredibly unlikely both via mechanics and play and the two combined.

So I'm pretty set on a Dunkers lynch today.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Yeah please hold on the reason-for-lying thing until Dunkers answers.

And yes the post is the below on why I think gara is town and telling the truth and why I think Dunkers is scum.

gara could be a scum PR. This is possible, yes. Let's look at this option. This would mean acid no-killed in order to neighbourise and claim a guilty on Dunkers. That's a very questionable course of action but let's assume it happened.

Next gara neighbourised me and no-killed again. This is also a possible course of action. But if that's the case, why has gara not voted me when I was jailed and there was no kill? That's the obvious reason to no kill last night. So I find garaputo being scum incredibly unlikely mechanically, and I also townread them by play. Have I gone wrong anywhere?


Dunkerdoodles on the other hand, if scum, was jailed during the N1 no kill and has taken the most obvious course of action for scum who deliberately didn't kill last night, which is to vote the player the JK said they were going to target. On top of that, he has claimed VT and someone has claimed he isn't, when as town he has very little evident reason to fakeclaim - and if he did, he should have come out with it once Porkens claimed. You cannot throw out all this information as irrelevant.

He's also played like a sheep this game and I'd appreciate anyone pointing out an instance of him providing independent thought contrary to popular opinion.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Yeah maybe. I'd still like a massclaim. You'd definitely know for sure if you targeted a VT?

Let me ask you guys this... are you sure you want to lynch this?

Hidden roles are bastard afaik because they involve mod lies? Not sure. Worth checking.

Oh I see what you mean with the negative utility - paranoid gun owner for example? However in that case he would want to

draw

the nightkill, whereas claiming VT pushes it away. Meta here is typically that town don't fakeclaim, because it makes it easier to catch scum out in a lie. So scum won't be killing a VT claim.

Two questions:

one, do we have any idea the specific turn order to this game? It's the chicken or the egg question. Who's first? Jail keeper or role blocker? Depending on who's first, I guess it lends some credibility to the theory. I'd be more comfortable with trackers in this game tbh. Role blockers and jail keepers shouldn't get confirmation that their block/jail was successful, unless the site culture is different from what I'm used to.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Resolution
No, I don't get confirmation for a roleblock and it's not standard. I think nancy said roleblocker generally takes precedence over JK.

two, why are we assigning town credit when someone claims to have done X? Besides the whole Lynch All Liars policy, a person is merely claiming that they have a certain role when they say that they'll target Person A. It's NAI and all it does is confirm their role. Depending on turn order could ultimately just cancel everything out based on who's targeting who and whether or not the PRs are actually telling the truth about who they targeted.

uhhh... we're not assigning town credit for that... I think the only player you could be talking about here is garaputo, I explained why I think they're town, and it has nothing to do with the fact they did what they said. Lynching liars is appropriate when town have no reason to lie.

From what I can tell, you guys have been using the no night kills to determine if your target is scum. Target Dunk and the next day no night kill is revealed. In a game that wasn't role madness and where you guys weren't claiming your intended targets, I'd be more willing to believe this.

This did not happen night 1 - acid claimed

after

jailing Dunkers. I'm not entirely clear on how much of the game you've read.
gara claimed a target N2 because it was likely they'd die after acid claimed JK.

i have reread my rolecard 10 times i am vanilla town

Okay. Where did Porkens get his result from?


-Key

[Yetichain]

I do not believe we are playing Death Rattle Mafia.


Dunkers was very clear that he was a very vanilla townie and said things are not role madness because of that.

also i'm vt

jabarkus and nk15 both said this game was role madness which means they obviously had pr roles and i thought them thinking it was role madness made them them more likely to be mafia

VOTE: yetichain
i like this actually

Yes okay... so why did you say in 1300 you couldn't explain 494 without claiming when you clearly could?


-Key

um ???
if i say that the game isn't role madness that obviously makes me vt no?

@Dunker - Just answer this - no more and no less: does you role possess a negative utility that can hurt town?

i'm literally vt

i have reread my rolecard 10 times i am vanilla town

The change in claim does not make sense with that to me.

ok

my rolecard says that my abilities may change due to reasons out of my control

but nothing's happened yet so im still vt

oh
somehow i missed that
enigma is my flavor name i guess. lemme check

ok enigma is my role

apparently my role and abilities can change based on others actions i guess.
i guess i could also be a secret backup of some sort?

right now tho i'm vt

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles
If I'm counting right that's Porkens, NK15 and myself. So L-1.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Because there was no way she was scum, probably, and also potentially by scum looking for the tracker in the roles who haven't claimed yet. That would implicate North, who I think is the only other candidate for tracker if it wasn't part of Dunkers's enigma role or just isn't around full stop. Ghost said a lot of stuff to me in the hood before she died that I need to go through now. And Day 1, definitely need to reread Day 1.

However I disagree with her on at least one point - we've only got one mislynch left if I'm counting right so in my opinion protecting strong PRs or making good night choices at this stage takes a backseat to finding scum and I'd like to get everything on the table.

Yeti, who did you roleblock?

Nobody.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Loved was part of my role and was not performed by anyone.

Nobody.

Wait WHAT?
You notice that you could have cleared somebody?
And that this does make you incredibly suspect?

Yes thanks I do notice that...

However I was conditional X-shot. 1-shot if I used my action N1 (which I did), and 2-shot if I didn't. I blocked dreal N1 to try and clear him and that was it.

nancy also sent me an anonymous message D1 before she neighbourised me. We claimed in the hood before nancy's replace out.

UNIDENTIFIED SUSPECT:D2:Summoned Woman of Crystals

I was controlling it D2 - I received it at the end of the night. I think someone sent it to me.


-Key

[Yetichain]

If we're talking about voting patterns, you have been on both town lynches iirc but not the scum one, and you're also being pretty opportunistic today. You're my top scumread right now, but I need to think.


Ghost argued for Porkens scum in the hood, and had some pretty good reasoning.

Yetichain is locktown btw.

Please explain this!

I reread their posts

I enjoyed this sequence.

Same. But equally - Porkens, you were so unsure on me earlier. Why am I so town to you now?

Mostly I need to read. I'll try and do that this afternoon/evening.


-Key

[Yetichain]

NK15 may be right in that ninja may have been to dodge their self sensing. I'm inclined to avoid setup spec at this point though.

@yeti could you clairfy on how you were neighborized by nancy and when?

She neighbourised me N1 as part of her role, hood was open until Ghost's death.

according to yeti we at least know that a roleblocking aspect of garaputo's role is confirmed. it's still possible that he's scum, however. for some more completely baseless setup spec, however, jailkeeper seems like a role i wouldn't expect in this game – most have been fairly non-standard/non-vanilla, with perhaps the exception of rolecop.

I don't believe I've confirmed gara is a roleblocker at all. I know they neighbourised me.

can anyone who's in a neighborhood / been in a neighborhood claim what went on there?

gara and I didn't have a lot of conversation. I'll report on the other one once I've reread and synthesised it. nancy and Ghost talked a lot.


-Key

[Yetichain]

That's still not a great explanation...

I'm going to have to do this analysis thing in bits. First is Jabarkas's ISO.

If possible, I'd like to generate pressure on lower content players.

Acid was the only real lurker at this point, as pointed out by Porkens shortly after this post. I don't think scum draws attention to a lurker partner like this.

Early read on Porkens such as 326 sounds like awkwardly explaining why he's treating Porkens differently to previous games. Could be partners there. I think Porkens returned the read.

385 to North is interesting, not sure which way that pushes me on her. Same with the North/me distinction in 426, and the North vote in 458 is pretty out of nowhere considering Varsoon (who was mostly driving and made this post) had stated a townread on her. XL had more of a scumread. Defense of Porkens there is also +partners, and the stuff addressed to NK15 sounds like he's talking to a townie but that's just a feeling.

North's 469, responded to by Jabarkas in 472, is very partnery to me - it's a question that further sets up Jabarkas to push their scumread on me.

488 does more of that keeping Porkens at arm's length thing.

491 (and later repetition that NK15 was clearly softing protective) strongly suggests not partners with NK15, though possibly faked - they say in 932 that NK15 could have protective slipped, so I'm not sure what on earth would keep their partner from shooting a suspected protective overnight.

566 (the part to North) sounds like talking to town.

aaand the rest is angry shouting that's a lovely note to finish reading the ISO on.

From that alone, Porkens and NK15 are probably most likely partners, followed by North, and finally gara.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I agree, rushing at this point is bad.

Acid claimed protective(well they were). They didn't die either. Nobody died, and either they targeted Dunker, or they targeted no one.
Someone previously said that they might have thought that I was a hider trying to hide in Dunker(I mentioned Dunker Day 1 as a target; but that was just a Dead-Neighbourizer target). With the info we have, this is possible.

I thought that.

Jabarkas said

in that post

that they didn't think acid was claiming a protective role (bolded by me):

Then NK15 literally writes, "[Acid] claimed a neighbourizing and a protective role. That looks strange to me because of what my role is. A bit too close, perhaps. Depends on what they really are."

Acid never claimed a protective role.

The fact NK15 says that a neighborizing and protective role is 'a bit too close' to WHAT HIS ROLE IS strikes me as both a protective-slip and a soft-claim of neighborize/protective role.
If you consider the posts that follow, it becomes really clear that NK15 was attempting to counterclaim.

What's more troubling from your analysis is that you found nothing that seems to suggest that the team is not Porkens/Jarbakas

You should probably not just rely on my word and do some fact checking on me before you come to a conclusion based on what I said about a single ISO. I'm not really done, there's more players to do.


-Key

[Yetichain]

Mostly. Plus

Acid was the only real lurker at this point, as pointed out by Porkens shortly after this post. I don't think scum draws attention to a lurker partner like this.

It's not really a

read

as of yet. It's more of a starting point. I'm trying to reassess.


-Key

[Yetichain]

It's the fact that you softed protective

and didn't die,

despite flipped scum noting your CC as looking like a protective slip and also saying they didn't think acid was claiming protective.


North, did you say why you sent me the Woman of Crystals, and did you have any opinions on the fact that I didn't claim it?

Also I'm surprised that you'd not submit a night action.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I looked at NK15/Jabarkas from NK15's side. I don't think they're scum.

166 is still so bizarre even in retrospect but also notably was suspicious of Jabarkas right off the bat. Porkens vote in 182 was also based on Porkens townreading Jabarkas, which is really odd for partners to do. 190 almost erases that though. 455 townread on Jabarkas seems to come out of nowhere which is

456 and 457 though, I don't think that's faked, and just the whole way Jabarkas reacted to the claim doesn't seem like partners.

I can't remember though, did we get an explanation on why NK15 though a CC was appropriate here? Death neighbouriser to neighbourising JK has no reason to claim afaik. If a protective fakeclaim was set up from the start that could make sense from scum!NK15, but I don't understand why that would be the case.


-Key

[Yetichain]

I did more reading.

garaputo

acid was very quiet re: Jabarkas from early on :/

northsidegal

northsidegal's 383 and Jabarkas's 385 could conceivably be distancing. I just don't think the vote would have stayed so long if it was, that was a serious vote park for like 600 posts afaict.
Can't tell if the defusing in 485 is more or less likely to come from partners.

Porkens

Porkens immediately targets Jabarkas in 71 with his joke.
201 makes me paranoid that he's scum who didn't have daytalk I've seen scum communicate through late RQS before.
324
338 looks like an attempt to contrive a townread on a partner.
345/347 still doesn't make sense to me but that's a me problem.
Not sure how I feel about 474/476.
Goes way back on that read in 571.
576 and 581 are both refuting cases on Jabarkas and then he backs them up absolutely in 589.
Wavered all over the place EOD.

Porkens is by far the scummiest by association, I think. Particularly from the hard support in 589. But mostly what came out of that is I don't think it's North, primarily due to the votepark.

However we're inching steadily closer towards deadline so I might as well go with this. I'd like towncases on Porkens please, if anyone has them, before I vote though.

Now that I thought about this:
I have no confidence about this being scum-indicative, but what do you all think about Jarbakas trying to save Acid from a counterclaim there?

Not quite clear what you're getting at here - Porkens has confirmed gara's claim, I don't know that Jabarkas would be worried about a CC since the claim was almost definitely legit.


-Key

[Yetichain]

VOTE: Yetichain

omgus

Are you trying to bait me into voting for you? I don't understand.

[Yetichain]

Yo who's the one voting a townread presumably one day from LyLo/MyLo?

Like I'd say last remaining scum wouldn't be playing like they have a deathwish like you seem to be, but I actually wouldn't be that surprised to see it from you so I'm not sure what to do with that information.

Can everyone summarise their reads on all surviving players asap please?

Also

Hammer it

VOTE: NK15

garaputo what was this

[Yetichain]

I see.

Yetichain is locktown btw.

Yetis posts just seem super Town to me.

I think scum have to be in NK15, NSG, and Garup.

I appear to have misinterpreted these posts.
Give me a better reason for me being scum than OMGUS, then.


On another note, since she was pretty emphatic on this point, I should mention that Ghost considered the rolecop claim and 422's rolefishing in connection super scummy.

[Yetichain]

I'm confused. Can you be less confusing?

[Yetichain]

Paranoid of me or Porkens? Also North who's your preference for lynching today?

well, it looks like were are all here.

VOTE: NK15

For real, if this isn't scum I'm eating my hat.

That's a phrase I've heard before! From a scumbuddy from in my first scum game

Would like last words from NK15 before a hammer though. If they aren't scum then town needs all the help it can get for tomorrow.

Wow, I typed that too fast, I have a preference to vot NK15, not NSG.

I'm Porkens or NK15, maaaaybe you. North is coasting when I would expect her to be solving, but she also voteparked scum for approximately three years on Day 1.

[Yetichain]

Why him?

[Yetichain]

I g2g see ya lynch nk

Good talk <3

You forgot my role.

Oh! So I did.

Why him?

at the end of the day i don't think nk15 does his "counterclaim" as scum and porkens' vote seems the most likely to be a bus from the day one wagon.

Okay, fair. Why not garaputo and I? You said you have no townreads.

[Yetichain]

I don't think it is.

Okay, fair. Why not garaputo and I? You said you have no townreads.

I want an answer from North.
And when that is discussed, we need the rest of the votes.
We have discussed everything else, and time is starting to run out.
2 days and 9 hours left.

Does this seem like someone who needs people to vote Porkens to avoid losing the game? Serious question, I would like to know.

[Yetichain]

I was asking why you don't want to lynch us, but the rest is appreciated.

I specifically asked earlier about this topic and got no answer

With two others seeing Yeti as town there is little chance of a lynch today.

Do you mean the underlined in the context of Yeti, or overall? I think mathematically we must lynch today, or we lose 1 of 2 possible shots to win. I am tired and not a math wizard but that passes my cursory assumptions checklist.

Pretty clear that the implication here is "little chance of a [Yeti] lynch". You're very hung up on this.

I don't think it is.

Okay, fair. Why not garaputo and I? You said you have no townreads.

I want an answer from North.
And when that is discussed, we need the rest of the votes.
We have discussed everything else, and time is starting to run out.
2 days and 9 hours left.

Does this seem like someone who needs people to vote Porkens to avoid losing the game? Serious question, I would like to know.

I would say most players are playing as if this lynch is not critical and necessary, NK15 included.

I'm referring to that post in particular. NK15's neck is on the line here. If they're town, there's another chance. If they're scum, that's it, they

need

to live through the day.

Anyway, I'm fine with voting now.
VOTE: Porkens
L-1. North will probably hammer.

[Yetichain]

What did you check? Pretty sure NK15's claimed role targets someone since they crumbed targeting Dunkers, but his role doesn't really make sense on scum anyway so if they're scum I'd assume it's a fakeclaim.

gara being scum explains why they were reluctant to commit to jailing me N2. Why would acid have jailed Dunkers instead of killing? To fake an almost guilty on a player unlikely to have been the NK target?

I'd still prefer Porkens today, but the argument for gara is good.

[Yetichain]

Yeah, maybe targets after death instead of at night.

[Yetichain]

Interesting point. I don't think she'll answer since it's not in the OP, but worth trying I guess.

Ugh. VOTE: garaputo

I also "ugh" at dramatic self voting.

That's so tempting but I would still prefer Porkens today, and reconsider gara tomorrow if we mislynch.

Get NK15 tomorrow ok?

Maybe make a stronger argument? I'm feeling less and less like lynching NK15 every moment.

[Yetichain]

Don't think roleblock was confirmed.

Literally my first strong town read of the game was based on post 138 - I do not see scum Yeti making that post.

Uhh, why not?

I guess you don't undershand how I think then. I have the ability to die and not lose, I do not think NK15 does. It's simple poe to me.

But NK15 wasn't trying to push people to vote Porkens earlier in 1766, he was going for further discussion on players not under pressure and then wanted the "rest of the votes", even though there was a good chance they would be on him. That seems townie to me. That's what I asked about earlier and you gave a general response.

NSG, I'm town. You, as either alignment should hammer NK15. If you are town, I think he must be scum and we win the game.

If you are scum and he is town, you should be able to get my lynched tomorrow no problem.

please.

This seemed like panic to me though when Porkens was at L-1 though.


Argument for gara scum is good.

Intent to hammer garaputo.

if garaputo isn't scum then it's yeti (going off of night actions). if porkens is scum who gambitted no-killing then *shrug*.

hopefully it's garaputo so i can be absolved of my poor play the rest of this game.

If gara isn't scum and Porkens and I are both alive tomorrow, we can go from there.

I feel similarly about the second sentiment, I've been phoning it in a wee bit up until now. Ah well.

[Yetichain]

I also would have claimed my guilty inthread. As it was, I claimed in the hood at nancy's request.

I'd prefer Porkens again now.

[Yetichain]

You did say you were unsure about order of resolution. Did you bring that up inthread as a possible flaw in the plan?
Also can you explain why you so strongly townread that early post of mine you mentioned earlier, I don't understand.

acid still had really bad associatives with jabarkas, but granted porkens' weren't that good either.

if porkens is scum, why didn't he shoot garaputo night two? it wouldn't have cleared you given that roleblockers generally take precedence over jailkeepers.

Not sure, but I'm also not sure why scum didn't shoot at all. Possibly for the sheer confusion, or to guilty me.

[Yetichain]

Okay, I hope I've given gara enough opportunity to speak. If North isn't voting Porkens with me I'll have to hope she's right on this one, because I don't think it's her or NK15.

VOTE: garaputo

[Yetichain]

He was self voting iirc so I think I hammered him.
Porkens are you scum

[Yetichain]

I suppose I should rephrase that. If you thought that was a hammer, it looks like a quick attempt to get a lynch and avoid things swinging back towards you.