Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[Not Known 15]

Hello. It has begun!

[Not Known 15]

VOICING YOUR TRS GETS THEM KILLED / HELPS SCUM PLAN

DON'T DO IT

Does this really work?

I TR Jabarkas Mayonnaise.

Oh you do.
Nice to see so many explanations on why you townread them!
In other words: Why?

[Not Known 15]

Actually I'd like to start the game here with some RQS so four questions for everyone borrowed from Regfan:

1) What are your availabilities re: timezone / time of day / posting frequency?
2) What kind of experience do you have with mafia and how does that inform your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting down scum to manipulating town and why?
4) How would you describe your playstyle and is there anything about it you're trying to change this game?

1) Varies.
2) Some experience. I am unwilling to go into the details.
3)I prefer hunting scum.
4)I play every game how I think it is right, but I am not trying to change anything.

[Not Known 15]

Since the thread has exploded...
Porkens:71 Townread and no explanation? Give one. Now.
85 Explain that post. What made you do it? Why did you post that?
Dunker:51Explain your townreads right now. Given what I know about the accuracy of your reads and your playstyle: It is usually anti-town regardless of alignment and your reads are wildly inaccurate. So why are they locktown to you?
drealmerz7:You have a strong scumread on Nancy. Explain that scumread as soon as possible. You had a fake dayvig.
I also notice you have a high number of useless posts

that unneccessarily drive the post count up

. Fix that.
Jabarkas Mayonnaise:10 Explain yourself: Was that a townread or a joke?
Jarbakas Mayonaise has a high number of posts talking about theory and player setup. Literally nothing else! That is highly suspicious. Really. No investment into real scumhunting.
Acid:Not enough info yet.
Nancy: Why are you asking these questions? I have not seen the answer yet. Answer that question now!
LUV: You don't care about motivation? What??? That is highly suspicious.
Yeti: I like your posts so far.

Based on that, my two top scumreads are Jabarkas Mayonnaise and LUV. However, before I vote I'd like to see some answers to my questions. If I don't get any answers my reads will not change favourably.

[Not Known 15]

Why are you asking these questions? I have not seen the answer yet. Answer that question now!

Which questions? You're going to have to be more specific.

The "RQS" questions. I want to know why you selected them.

[Not Known 15]

I care a ton about motivation.

RQS is not AI. Therefore I don’t care why she wanted to ask them.

The real motivation behind these questions can help finding the alignment, although it is possible that the answers don't help me in seeing their alignment, at least not immediately.

[Not Known 15]

Since the thread has exploded...
Porkens:71 Townread and no explanation? Give one. Now.
85 Explain that post. What made you do it? Why did you post that?
Dunker:51Explain your townreads right now. Given what I know about the accuracy of your reads and your playstyle: It is usually anti-town regardless of alignment and your reads are wildly inaccurate. So why are they locktown to you?
drealmerz7:You have a strong scumread on Nancy. Explain that scumread as soon as possible. You had a fake dayvig.
I also notice you have a high number of useless posts

that unneccessarily drive the post count up

. Fix that.
Jabarkas Mayonnaise:10 Explain yourself: Was that a townread or a joke?
Jarbakas Mayonaise has a high number of posts talking about theory and player setup. Literally nothing else! That is highly suspicious. Really. No investment into real scumhunting.
Acid:Not enough info yet.
Nancy: Why are you asking these questions? I have not seen the answer yet. Answer that question now!
LUV: You don't care about motivation? What??? That is highly suspicious.
Yeti: I like your posts so far.

Based on that, my two top scumreads are Jabarkas Mayonnaise and LUV. However, before I vote I'd like to see some answers to my questions. If I don't get any answers my reads will not change favourably.

This looks forced and artificial.

Yeah that's correct. It probably looks forced because it is. I didn't really want to use so much time at that point to evaluate the thread. But a catchup was absolutely necessary. It is also artificial because I constructed it carefully to include everyone even when there was not much to say- mainly for completeness(to not miss anything and to get a complete picture for the situation, including for future reference).

However... I asked you for your reasons to townread Jarbakas. I told you to answer my question. You even quoted my post. But you didn't do it.
VOTE: Porkens

[Not Known 15]

I notice that Porkens has failed to comply with my request to answer my question(why Porkens did town read Jarbakas) again. I recommend everyone to vote Porkens right now. I cannot see any good town reason for Porkens to hide their reasons behind the naked townread. I do however see a scum motivation behind them first ignoring my question, then turning towards me in an attempt to discredit me and even further trying to discredit me when I made a vote and told them to answer: The town read was fake!

[Not Known 15]

@NotKnown15:

It's less a townread and more of me joking off of Drealmerz claiming town really hard.
I'm going to level with you, though; if I had no Porkens meta, I'd be scumreading him, too, but him getting really into the theme and doing these readings and generally not providing much in the way of helpful elaboration is really not alignment indicative for him as a player. If we pressure him over it and it's unanimous, he'll play ball, but I don't find what he's doing to be too detrimental to the game state.

-V

Hmph. I trust you in this, for now, Jarbakas(but I will also have to look more closely into their finished games to verify that you are not saying BS when I have more time). For now two things:

As fun as it is being obstinate, I will clarify.

Drealmerz wrote that we should not out our townreads because doing so helps the scum to chose their kills.

In response, I wrote "does that really work" and then "I townread JM" to satirically paint JM as a target.

----

As for the qucklynch remark, I love a good quicklynch for the "lulz" "yolo" etc. I didn't expect it to happen, but depending on target, I'd have been ok with it.

First, Porkens, please answer questions directed at you in some form. Not doing so only disrupts; and does not help town.
Second, for now:UNVOTE: Porkens

[Not Known 15]

Why LUV over drealmer?

While drealmerz' initial "guess I rolled town, hahaha, must be a curse, wish I was scum, lol, too bad I am town" schtick had me rolling my eyes, the tone of his play reminds me a lot of previous games I've been in where he ended up as town.

Little Uzi, however, despite being among the top posters, has very little content and has actively been disengaging without giving a ton of reason why.

Hmm yes. I agree. High volume of unnecessary posts, the only person to deny all questions, does care greatly about motivation, but does not want to ask nancy why they asked the questions, quite a bit general theory talk, and only one read.

Acid

nancy on general tonal things from a cursory iso skim

dreal also for tonal things but with actual specifics
the Nancy dayvig stunt and how he did it / talked with Nancy after is imo villagery, the "don't say your townreads" is probably only said in context like that from a villager, and same for how he handled rqs discussion w luv

These tonal things mentioned warrant more explanations. Detailed explanations.

[Not Known 15]

Lil Uzi Vert:
Largely unhelpful posts. Only one to completely skip questions. Strange reactions to motivation and then telling that motivation is very important(while not caring for motivation).Then we have the question about town being guarded. Is that intended to protect Porkens? How does Uzi know anything about the abilities of others, while it is Day 1 and nobody claimed? (Yes, you know that it is upick but one role should not give you so much info on the setup; while being on the scumteam could). They even didnt say why they thought otherwise(being guarded not indicative). Yes, I saw the replacement. But that does not make it better.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[Not Known 15]

@porkens the fact that he cares infinitely more about whether people are read-explainy than things that are actually significantly more likely to make people one alignment than the other

partially biased because of having prior games with him and knowing he essentially mostly just sticks to that

Could you link that experience please?

Also, why does the above make him incompetent town rather than incompetent scrum?

While I definitely do not care

infinitely more about whether people are read-explainy

I do have to say that I do care a good deal about people being unhelpful and not explaining reads. If someone says "gut read" then this does not help me much: I am unable to analyze whether I can believe them, I am unable to see what exactly seems wrong to them. Letting go unexplained reads and not explaining things in general allows scum to blend in and do the same, even if a town is doing it. If we have an open explanation everyone can look at that again and think for themselves. No explanations at all, on the other side, mean that the bad things someone spotted may get lost via nightkill or mislynch.

Porkens, I am not seeing "outstanding scuminess" there. That post does have one useless comment about siteflak, and you leaning lynchbait says leaning, not "is lynchbait", that's something else. But that could be a misunderstanding? Additionally, I do not know what they mean with

NK15 doesn't seem to me like they're going to bleed town.

but that's possibly my inexperience.
The post does not look particularly good to me, but I am missing the big scuminess there. What does look bad here?

Keychain I want to know from you what this phrase means, if no one else answers first.

[Not Known 15]

@porkens the fact that he cares infinitely more about whether people are read-explainy than things that are actually significantly more likely to make people one alignment than the other

partially biased because of having prior games with him and knowing he essentially mostly just sticks to that

Could you link that experience please?

Also, why does the above make him incompetent town rather than incompetent scrum?

While I definitely do not care

Why don't you care? I'm asking why he is townreading you and not scumreading you. If you drop the adjective, I'm asking him "why are you townreading him?" Isn't that exactly the kind of explanation you've been so adamant about getting out of people?

Porkens, I am not seeing "outstanding scuminess" there. That post does have one useless comment about siteflak, and you leaning lynchbait says leaning, not "is lynchbait", that's something else. But that could be a misunderstanding?

Like I wrote before, that post was forced. It seemed to me you felt pressure to post, and that you were reaching to say "anything" about each player. I've felt that kind of pressure more as scum than as town.

Secondly, there is at least one player who you give a total pass: "I like your posts so far", but you don't explain why.

Thirdly, your commanding/imperative tone rings false to me.

"I like your posts so far" does mean nothing more than that I did not have any concerns about their posts so far: No indication that they weren't trying to hunt scum(as opposed to faking that), explanations...
About that forced thing: I would have liked to do that later, but um... you know... it doesn't get better when you have to catch up more.
Picking everyone seems forced to you? Well, it was deliberately made that way it was- to include everyone to
1. affirm everyone that these are my reads
2. serve as fallback if I want to re-read
3. most importantly, they will show you where I came from; my first impressions. When I somehow die that can help you understand my thoughts and ideas better than me(because I cannot explain them anymore)
4. I get to write everything down and make sure that I don't forget to read someone correctly

[Not Known 15]

It's because LUV had very little in the way of content despite being in the top five posters. A lot of what he did post was flighty and non-committal.
Then he replaced out.
I'm not really keen on giving a replacement a pass, myself.
I feel like, yes, you're not LUV, but you should still have to exonerate your slot.
Part of me is actually more critical of you for asking why people were scumreading LUV--it seems like something easy enough to find out (just read the last few pages, or any post where someone voted the slot) and it also strikes me as asking for a roadmap of what to do to appease people who are still scumreading the slot. For instance, now that you know I am scumreading your slot for being flight/non-committal, you might hope to turn that read around through direct engagement and committing to a wagon.

Spoiler Alert: I won't townread you for that alone.

-V

Indeed, my vote stays on Little Uzi Vert(now Northsidegal) for these reasons... and one additional reasoning(168)

[Not Known 15]

Indeed, my vote stays on Little Uzi Vert(now Northsidegal) for these reasons... and one additional reasoning(168)

do you think luv's 173 isn't valid?

If you don't know if motivation is coming from scum or town, then you can ask for the motivation directly. That can give you hints. If you surely care much about motivation, then you would normally try to ask for that motivation if you cannot see it, no? So, yes, that one isn't valid.

[Not Known 15]

It's because this game lacked any real conflict or passion, imo.
Whenever I catch up on 5+ pages in a game, I always gloss unless there's a really serious conflict happening, and, even then, if it's too verbose, I still skim it.

Basically, this game's been pretty toothless so far.

-V

Porkens is still pretty high in my suspicion list even after they decided to give in and answer my question(and that situation was serious). But LUV/north, well that spot is currently number 1.

[Not Known 15]

dunkerdoodles is dunkerdoodling around

why does that make Dunker a scumread?

[Not Known 15]

It's inscrutable.

But,

Here, again, you pick one crumb to focus on when there is a whole loaf of communication to talk about.

What is your problem? The rest of the arguments did not warrant any investigation, at least in my opinion.
Do you "scumread" Dunker because they are unreadable and do not help town?

[Not Known 15]

There have been pages since your last post. Those 4 words are the only ones that were worthy of your attention?

What is this exaggeration? Pages? Look at the last page... My scumread on you just got stronger.
I was looking at it because of 325
And there is something you missed; a question directed at you, Porkens. In that post. Please answer it.

[Not Known 15]

Dunkers is almost all filler and hopalong. His vote on you seemed opportunistic to me.

I don't trust him.

So you spotted an additional problem. Hmm... but I am not sure that this is indicative of Dunker being scum. But yes you cannot trust Dunker. And you cannot trust their reads. At all. They are definitely a suitable candidate, and they absolutely need to be lynched before LyLo if we cannot clear them.

[Not Known 15]

I definitely want a reaction to your last, interesting post here, Yeti. From those who are deemed questionable.

I can't say that lynching players you don't think are scum is a great idea. This post was pretty sketch in general.

Hmmm but I don't know if Dunker is town or scum. They could be both. I only said it was probably not indicative for scum(dunker). Not that it is indicative for town(dunker). And if they are town, they have a high chance of messing up. In my opinion, Dunker is unreadably anti-town every time; at least that is what their games suggest.

[Not Known 15]

i promise i'll have more to say later, by the way, when i get the time.

viewtopic.php?p=9802614#p9802614

content tonight or tomorrow hopefully; sorry for lack thereof so far

One of these is scum.

It could be both. But I have played with acid more than once and they had utterly useless posts as my scumpartner, but also lots of useless posts as town.
But LUV/North? I think that slot is worse. Sketchy replacement, and north does not seem to be a lurker, usually. Also their entry...
My vote stays on North.

[Not Known 15]

might be conf bias but idk

plus he is only scumreading and not townreading which is sketchy

Spoiler:

Lil Uzi Vert:
Largely unhelpful posts. Only one to completely skip questions. Strange reactions to motivation and then telling that motivation is very important(while not caring for motivation).Then we have the question about town being guarded. Is that intended to protect Porkens? How does Uzi know anything about the abilities of others, while it is Day 1 and nobody claimed? (Yes, you know that it is upick but one role should not give you so much info on the setup; while being on the scumteam could). They even didnt say why they thought otherwise(being guarded not indicative). Yes, I saw the replacement. But that does not make it better.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

It's because this game lacked any real conflict or passion, imo.
Whenever I catch up on 5+ pages in a game, I always gloss unless there's a really serious conflict happening, and, even then, if it's too verbose, I still skim it.

Basically, this game's been pretty toothless so far.

-V

Porkens is still pretty high in my suspicion list even after they decided to give in and answer my question(and that situation was serious). But LUV/north, well that spot is currently number 1.

I definitely want a reaction to your last, interesting post here, Yeti. From those who are deemed questionable.

I can't say that lynching players you don't think are scum is a great idea. This post was pretty sketch in general.

Hmmm but I don't know if Dunker is town or scum. They could be both. I only said it was probably not indicative for scum(dunker). Not that it is indicative for town(dunker). And if they are town, they have a high chance of messing up. In my opinion, Dunker is unreadably anti-town every time; at least that is what their games suggest.

I notice that Porkens has failed to comply with my request to answer my question(why Porkens did town read Jarbakas) again. I recommend everyone to vote Porkens right now. I cannot see any good town reason for Porkens to hide their reasons behind the naked townread. I do however see a scum motivation behind them first ignoring my question, then turning towards me in an attempt to discredit me and even further trying to discredit me when I made a vote and told them to answer: The town read was fake!

i promise i'll have more to say later, by the way, when i get the time.

viewtopic.php?p=9802614#p9802614

content tonight or tomorrow hopefully; sorry for lack thereof so far

One of these is scum.

It could be both. But I have played with acid more than once and they had utterly useless posts as my scumpartner, but also lots of useless posts as town.
But LUV/North? I think that slot is worse. Sketchy replacement, and north does not seem to be a lurker, usually. Also their entry...
My vote stays on North.

Why is that sketchy? It simply means that I have no townread.
I still think that Little Uzi Vert was scum, and replaced out.

Acid, you are claiming Neighbourizer?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Acidphoenix
I want your full roleclaim. Now.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Known15

Why do you need Acid's full roleclaim?
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?

-V

Because they already made some claims and some of them raise my suspicion

[Not Known 15]

My scumreads are, right now:
Possibly scum: Porkens, Dunker
May be scum, depending on the answers: Acid
Very likely scum:Northsidegal
My townreads are, right now:
Maybe town:Jarbakas

[Not Known 15]

So how does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.
If your suspicions are that Acid has more than just a neighborizing role, digging for more information to be shared publicly is scummy as fuck and presenting that as some sort of alignment-sorting approach rather than you just rolefishing is not helpful to town.

So, answer my question;
How does getting a full roleclaim from Acid benefit town and not just fucking give scum a roadmap for where to shoot?
Then, I reiterate;
How does them FULLY CLAIMING AND OUTING THEIR ROLE quench your suspicions?
If you have alignment-indicative suspicions, explain what they are right now and explain why a fully claim would allow you to confirm that Acid is scum.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

-V

Everyone has a role here did you forget?
They claimed a neighbourizing and a protective role. That looks strange to me because of what

my

role is. A bit too close, perhaps. Depends on what they really are.

P-EDIT:
Can you explain your possibly-scumread on Porkens, too?

Look at my ISO.
LUV had a strange defense on them I already pointed out.
Their refusal to answer my questions.
Their exaggeration at post 334.

[Not Known 15]

I was referring to my post 182 and their following post 183.
The answer came some hours later187, after I intensified the pressure on 184.
Unfortunately you are right that I didnt think of a possible setup trap. A question to the more experienced people here: Is that likely? Jarbakas says yes.
For now I will trust you which means I will
VOTE: Northsidegal
again.

[Not Known 15]

Can you explain how the exaggeration in 334 makes Porkens scum and not just using NAI hyperbole?
There were not many posts between mine and the question. Porkens also does not usually ask everyone "Why did you pick this and nothing else?"
It is normal that not all posts and sometimes only a few come under heightened suspicion. The hyperbole hid that a bit by making the reader assume that tons of pages had passed and I just picked one post... instead of picking one line of only some posts.

[Not Known 15]

I told them that in 336 and no answer has been given so far.

[Not Known 15]

Can someone tell me why we have so few votes on Northsidegal/LUV? I see no good reason for a townread, but I see good reasons for scumreads. Why should we not vote them?
(I am mostly suspecting the team to be Porkens and Northsidegal/LUV here right now; but I am less sure about Porkens)

[Not Known 15]

Here's a thing.

Some folks said that they "got their first choice" for pick. I got an amalgam of my 3 choices. Although, I picked 3 that I felt meant somethign together, and FF may have picked up on that and done my role accordingly?

I'm sorry if I irritated you JM. It wasn't my intention to cause you stress. I wanted to see if anyone would hop on.

I have to say I think the scum are doing a decent job of blending in, but I'm forgiving a couple of lackluster posters because I've seen them lackluster post in previous games.

I think that NK's agression was forced. And I do believe that is scum.

VOTE: Not KNown 15

And I think that THIS is scum. I would prefer lynching Northsidegal because they are more scummy to me, but that does not seem to happen.
VOTE: Porkens
I have given enough reasons in my posts for this. I feel that Porkens is trying to divert attention from their scumpartner(probably North). I could be wrong but there was a connection between LUV and Porkens.

[Not Known 15]

okay, when someone's written a mafia seven paragraph essay that doesn't all fit on my screen at once i think it's time for me to take a short break from that particular discussion.

what are people's thoughts on acid?

Yeah probably. I decided I want to lynch acid tho because his claim was desperate. And I think his other power is maf

VOTE: acidpheonix

did you detect something that i didn't from that interaction, or is it that you just think he's lying? what made you call his claim desperate? it didn't seem to me like he was in a whole lot of danger.

Or that is just scum Porkens making something up to throw suspicion onto others.

[Not Known 15]

Or that is just scum Porkens making something up to throw suspicion onto others.

and what gives you that impression?

Well, first, there was no big pressure on Acid.
Second, that was not the first time Porkens misrepresented something(the

pages

incident)

[Not Known 15]

NK15's lack of suspicion towards me still bothers me a lot,

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

[Not Known 15]

I don't like Porkens frequently revoting, but they have a credible reason for that(scumreading nearly the whole town).
Well, I have seen many scumreads on Northsidegal/Little Uzi Vert
And they are my top scumread.
Acid, now acid lurking more and what they are doing remind me a bit of my first game on this site, when Acid and me were scum.
Lurking and badly explained reads are also not helping town.
VOTE: Northsidegal
I think there are enough of you who scumread North that we can put them at L-1?

[Not Known 15]

Lurking and badly explained reads are also not helping town.
VOTE: Northsidegal
I think there are enough of you who scumread North that we can put them at L-1?

i'm not lurking, nor have my reads been badly explained.

LUV was lurking...
But that statement was not even directed at you.

[Not Known 15]

jesus posting here feels hard and I don't know why

I don't want to vote dreal yeti porkens dunkers Nancy in roughly that order

I don't have strong feelings anywhere between nsg / nk / jabarkus

VOTE: not known 15

VOTE: not known 15

Please this first.

VOTE: nk15
oops

This is the towncore.

Acid and you towncore.
What.
No.
Acid was one of your scumreads and now you have gone 180° and say they are town?
No.
I think it is Northsidegal.
It might be Porkens.
It could be acid.
It could be Drealmerz(who lurks a lot)
Didn't you notice that all Northsidegal wagons quicky died out?

[Not Known 15]

NK15 why have you only mentioned me twice this game?

Few of your posts have caught my attention. I have seen little possible problems with most of your posts.

[Not Known 15]

NK15 why have you only mentioned me twice this game?

Few of your posts have caught my attention. I have seen little possible problems with most of your posts.

Fair enough. What about Yeti? You have seemed to like them pretty consistently throughout the game but I haven't seen much sign that you've put a lot of thought into that read.

Do you think I should be reading you as w/w to any degree from the way Yeti defends you then postures around scumreading you without wanting to lynch you in 528, or do you think I should read them as if wolf spewing you town by propping up their posture around acidphoenix rolefishing with your reaction to him on that?

Yeti defends me against that, yes. But why not? You can still think a player to be scummy and tell others that one particular post is definitely not what someone suggests. You don't want people to join your wagon or your scumreads for the wrong reasons. At least, I wouldn't. Yeti simply states that I am suspicious for him, but that there are signs of townieness as well, and that I am not scummy enough to be lynched yet. At least that is what his posts suggest to me.

[Not Known 15]

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

[Not Known 15]

So what is your read on Yeti? Why don't you scumread them for not answering your questions, for instance, like you did to others?

Currently? Not sure. They might have missed the question - Porkens quoted my question without answering the question and then even refused again; before answering.
Yeti's next post was a short time ago, with quite a bit text in between. I thought they might possibly be town before, but the questioned statement looked strange to me. If they however refuse to answer(or if their answer is suspicious), that would be sufficient for a scumread alone.

[Not Known 15]

I don't like the justification for Porken's last vote, and I have suspected them for long. I don't like that Yeti still does not answer me. I don't like drealmerz constantly lurking. But my vote stays on Northsidegal for the following reasons:
LUV was scummy to many, and was described as "actively lurking", something which accurately reflects what they were doing. Upon replace, we got north who also didn't do much so far and was also quite defensive and their actions were characterized as scummy by many.
What's more troubling, however, is that there seem to be a high number of people scumreading Northsidegal yet the only L-2 wagon for them was quickly retracted, by porkens no less; I suspect that at least one scumread comes from scum who does not want to lose north Day 1. So please vote North

now

, time is running out.

[Not Known 15]

Whatever Porkens I'm sick of mafia on this site.

Vote: NK15

That is L-1!

[Not Known 15]

Ok, people voting me:
Porkens(scummy)
Dunker(has horrible reads, always. Also not helpful)
Acid(I scumread them once, and I still dont townread them)
Nancy(horrible vote reasoning)
My wagon contains at least one scum, possibly two.
Does that wagon look any trustworthy?
No.

[Not Known 15]

And if it contains one scum the other one is North(which is the more likely possibility)

[Not Known 15]

If there is any vig and I get mislynched: Vig Northsidegal.

[Not Known 15]

Oh, and two more very important things:
1.Dunker.
2.If you don't see any contribution from me then I hit scum.

[Not Known 15]

nk15, only two people can be scum this game – you've pretty much called everyone in the game scum at one point or another. if you're going to say that i'm scum and that there's one scum on your wagon then you have to accept that there are three townies. like, calling everyone scum doesn't make any useful distinction and doesn't do much to convince me or anyone else of what you're saying.

I am suspicious of multiple people.
But you and Porkens are my top scumreads.
Yeah and? Acid and Dunker might be town, but they are not good in finding scum, especially Dunker.

[Not Known 15]

Oh, and two more very important things:
1.Dunker.
2.If you don't see any contribution from me then I hit scum.

Remember this tomorrow.

[Not Known 15]

Why are there so few votes on Northsidegal? We have less than three days left. They and especially LUV were scumread by many people. Either vote them right now or explain why not.

[Not Known 15]

I don't think the way they've softed their role comes from scum ever and I also don't believe they have a scum role. Not willing to discuss it further than that at this point, I'm sorry but I truly don't think it's a good idea. I've played like absolute rubbish thus far though, so I understand if you're not willing to take it on faith.

I'm all skimmed up and now I have some things to answer I believe.

Indeed.

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

[Not Known 15]

Why do I have to scumread you?
Why does the lack of suspicion I had so far bother you?
Please answer these questions.

Yeti, you have unanswered questions.

These questions can be answered in one, though as I've just said it doesn't matter and I'm not going to be voting here. You don't have to scumread me but when players lack suspicion towards me, I have little alarm bells that go off in my head. Town doesn't know who to trust -> suspicion is towny -> lack of suspicion is scummy, is the basic breakdown.

ah ok. If I see no good reason for suspecting someone I won't do it. I have good reasons to suspect multiple people.

So... yeti. What do you think of Little Uzi Vert/Northsidegal?

[Not Known 15]

That's fine! I'm going away tomorrow, so not sure of the chances but one can always hope.

Can you vote North, then? Deadline is close...

[Not Known 15]

Nvm you are already voting North.

[Not Known 15]

The lurkers(Dunker, Acid, drealmerz7) are still voting me... We have nearly one day left. Wake up and vote Northsidegal, please.

[Not Known 15]

Right now we have two mysteries for us, solving them will be the key to the win.
Mystery 1: Near the end of the deadline, there were wagons on me and Northsidegal.
Suddenly, nancy starts the Jarbakas wagon of Northsidegal and it quickly advances to L-0. And the flip... is SCUM.
The mystery is this: How did that happen? Where was the second scum? Did they hop on the wagon for towncred?
Or did they do something else?

Mystery 2: No kill! Game is at 7-1, the worst possible result for scum. But why?
We already have a claim to that. But we do not know what happened.
Did Acid jailkeep scum? Did they jailkeep the Night Kill target? Did something else stop the kill? Did the mafia attack at all? Is acid scum? We know however, if the Acid claim is true, that Acid was NOT roleblocked or rolestopped. Because both Dunker and Acid claim neighbourizing success.
I do not have the time today to make a full evaluation, and we are waiting for Acid anyways.

[Not Known 15]

Before I claim I need everyone to claim if they visited me last night or not.

[Not Known 15]

Ok.
There is one more thing I want to talk about before I claim...
Should we do a massclaim or not?
We already have an outed power role(Acid the neighbourizing jailkeeper); but what is more interesting is that the one who didnt want claims was Jarbakas, and Jarbakas was scum.
A related question is how we'd do it(I prefer popcorn)
and another related question is how we claim our card(s), especially the most important card(e.g. Tower) that is supposed to be unique.
The claim would definitely start with me claiming my role.
We could seperate the card claim from it, because reasons(you'll have to decide if you want to popcorn for cards or the rest; also we have more motivation to go for).
What do you all say?
I support a massclaim now.

[Not Known 15]

Who wants to fight me?

Look at my last post and answer it?

[Not Known 15]

No massclaim.

Why not?

[Not Known 15]

Ok...
Only claiming my card(s) on further request:

I am a
1.self-sensing ascetic. I know what is intended to hit me at night, and last night no one visited. Sadly, no one fell for the trap and claimed visiting me.
2.Dead-Neighbourizer. If you look back at my ISO when I was about to be hammered I made some posts related to that (1. Dunker 2.No contribution=sus)
Dead-Neighbourizer means that I neighbourize someone upon my own death.

Why do you think massclaim helps town here?

Because Jarbakas( who was scum) didn't want a massclaim, and I think that indicates that scum have to lose something to a massclaim. Whether it is info or sth else, dunno.

[Not Known 15]

FUCK.

ING.

LOL.

Vote: northsidegal

What is your reason for these posts?

[Not Known 15]

It's complicated. I'll let you know. Has to do with hood stuff.

Let me guess: North claimed to have visited me last night in hood?

[Not Known 15]

Hmmm
Dunker
They were jailkept and no kill happened(although Key has reasons to believe there were other reasons),the reasons north already mentioned, and such a strange vote pattern at end of day that looks like a bus

North
For the reasons from last day, their refusal to claim anything, not even having visited me

Porkens
Their posts irritate me, and contain fluff today. Plus, prior reasoning

Acid
They claimed a neighbourizing Jaikeeper, not quite what I thought it would be; but a powerful role(we know jailkeep succeeded because Dunker was neighbourized) you can't easily fakeclaim, so they could be town or scum with this role, but a massclaim could help us here: to see if it is unlikely that town has that power.

Rest has not really changed.

While you're at it, why did you counterclaim acid? Neighborizer isn't remotely a counterclaimable role so what made you think your role couldn't exist with his? And why'd you drop it so immediately when Varsoon jumped down your throat?

I thought Acid was softing some sort of dead-neighbourizer(I got that they had a catch in their role as neighbourizer, and they expressly told something about protecting, not neighbourizing; I thought that it might be it. On second thought it was dumb but I had to play along then and that Varsoon jumped down my throat and gave me reasoning was the perfect excuse to let it down AND to indicate a much more powerful role than I really had(to scum, to catch a Night kill).

[Not Known 15]

Also can you explain what you're talking about with the cards? They're NAI because we picked them before the alignment roll, and Jabarkas was the Tower if I'm understanding correctly.

Yeah they are mostly NAI.
However, there are reasons why they can be important:
Your abilities are mainly based on your three cards, with extra importance for your main card.
Your main card is

unique

.
If someone wants to fakeclaim, they need to have decent role claims that fit the cards they provide. They can ofcourse just claim the right cards and their true role but that could be dangerous in itself(e.g. Ninja Revenant)
On the other hand, if someone suspicious makes a fake main card claim and someone else has that one as the main card we get a reliable CC and that should be the end for scum.

[Not Known 15]

Indeed. That is the problem right now.

Dunker was jailkept and no kill happened.
Their vote could be a bus quite easily.
And they are not well readable for me; but they are usually antitown even as town.

VOTE: Dunker

[Not Known 15]

I would like to keep my vote on Dunker. I see no good reason not to vote them just because we had the Woman of Crystals on them.
Their VT claim is, however, at least, in line with their cards-Death and The Tower probably cancel each other out, and the Hanged Man could be vanilla(no idea).
Drealmerz has been lurky all days, so they are an ok lynch target. But I think Dunker is a better lynch target. Especially with them claiming VT and having been jailkept according to Garaputo...

[Not Known 15]

We already have some roleclaims. With the Woman of Crystals active, I would like to hear the rest. Anyone disagrees?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: drealmerz 7
(This might or might not be hammer, we have the Woman of Crystals and the doublevote so there are a total of 10 possible votes)
I look at these things after hammer and I want to see a flip. If Dunker isn't dead tomorrow we need to think about them

[Not Known 15]

Oh, really. Garaputo.
Well, it's possible but I haven't seen enough claims of powerful town roles to doubt their claim. So no.
I'll just
VOTE: Dunker
again.

[Not Known 15]

There was no kill
Dunker was jailkept by Garaputo; according to Garaputo
Drealmerz was roleblocked by Yeti, according to Yeti.
I doubt that Dunker was jailkept and attacked.
Voluntary No kill N1 is very dubious.
Scum is probably between Dunker and Drealmerz, and nothing else(Unless a townie
I COULD see a bus here because Jarbakas is able to influence the game from the dead.
But then again losing a Ninja on Day 1 is usually something very bad for scum.

Porkens, you seem to think Dunker's play is town. Did you actually play a game with them as scum? If not then you might see their usual play as both town and scum as townplay when it isn't.

Now that I think of it the Woman of Crystals fits drealmerz more than Dunker(whose VT claim has a credible explanation, we all know the meaning of the Tower, and Death is one of my secondary cards; they could really block each other).

VOTE: Drealmerz

[Not Known 15]

if I were scum with jabarkas I would have hammered ...who was it, nsg or NK15 who was also L-1 at the time jabarkas was hammered

At that point no one else was at L-1.
I was at L-3 and North was at L-2

What do you think about lynching Dunker, and what is your exact role? What are your cards other than the Hermit?
And do you think that Nancy would, in the situation after Day 1, attack Dunkerdoodles?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

Good morning!

What are you?

Yeti claims Roleblocker
Garaputo claims x-shot neighbourizing jailkeeper, with an X of at least 2
I claim Self-sensing Ascetic Dead-Neighbourizer
Dunker claims Vanilla
North is something with Loved
Porkens is something unknown
AnonymousGhost is something unknown

Jarbakas is a dead Ninja Revenant(evil, lynched Day 1)
Drealmerz is a dead Seeking Neighbourizer(good, lynched Day 2)

[Not Known 15]

I am a novice role cop and dunes ain't vt.

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

[Not Known 15]

UNVOTE:
Right.
Novice Role Cop, what is your result?

[Not Known 15]

Ok. I'd say:
1. Dunker was jailkept and there was no kill.
2. The N1 roleblocked person was already lynched.
3. Dunker lied about their role.
That alone is enough for a lynch.
VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

[Not Known 15]

If there is another scum its Nancy

My target switches to Nancy at night when Dunker gets lynched.

[Not Known 15]

Anonymous Ghost,
You noticed that Dunker claimed Vanilla Townie and Porkens just claimed rolecop with a different result on them?
We also had no kill Night 1 and Acid/garaputo claimed neighbourizing jailkeeper jailing dunker after that.
Guess who is scum...

[Not Known 15]

No I mean Dunker. Your slot is Nancy. I only mentioned you if we somehow have a third scum.

[Not Known 15]

Well if it is 7v2 all you need to do is to vote dunker who got caught lying about their role(and who was jailkept in a no-kill night, Night 1) and the game should be over.

[Not Known 15]

The game is solved if it is 7 vs 2 and if Dunker is scum and the game doesn't end then you are next(you had a potential scumslip Day 2 that does make lots of sense as scumslip with Dunker as your partner), but as long as we don't drag this to the deadline we should be fine. There is no hurry.

[Not Known 15]

Yeah it's not just that, you know.
Dunker could easily be the last scum.
It is not just the jailkeep.
It is not just the fake claim(which was made after they were suspected)
It is not just their generally horrible ISO(which is normal for Dunker)
It is all of the above at once.
Dunker has to be lynched.
This might be Role Madness but we already have multiple claims... and one scum dead.
Which means that the scum lack some power...
Yes, role isn't really indicative for alignment.
That Vanilla Townie claim was fake. I don't know why but then again scum might not have the ability to submit kills and night actions simultaneously. Which poses a problem if you are someone who can do something every night. Yes I know that points to others like garaputo as well, but they did not get caught in a lie so far nor have they been implicated by other night actions.
Yes, don't rely too much on roles but also do not ignore them. We got them for a reason, and if they all point at one person that isn't trustworthy anyways then it's time to lynch that person.

[Not Known 15]

So, ya'll are basically using the Lynch All Liars policy here?

Lame.

What's lame is Dunker's usual play, which is usually horrible to town and badly readable(at least for me).
With so much night evidence against them I want to lynch them.
What's so bad about that to you?

[Not Known 15]

I have to agree with Yeti, it does not make sense. We need to clear up that slot.
It would also clear up more about kills.
If Dunker is a very dumb townie I'd say look at Garaputo next- they have a reason for no kill if Mafia cannot attack and act the same night, their claim.
I doubt that Porkens is scum if Dunker messed up; mafia had little reason to rolecop Dunker.
Yeti is also worth a look.

Yeti, if Dunker is a mislynch I want to see you on Garaputo, just in case.

[Not Known 15]

2) Failing that, I'm certain that I won't last until endgame because both sides will see my doublevote as a liability.

That doublevote doesn't seem to exist anymore?
Anyways, Porkens, Yeti and myself voted Dunker so you would be hammer if you vote anyways.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Known 15

Reason?

[Not Known 15]

Does this sound like a town suggestion "hey let's end the game early and end discussion based on information gathered from our PRs that dubious at best considering it's a role madness game! It worked so well last time!"?

It worked well?
There were two suspects based on the PRs Day 2. One of them got lynched.
The other one is Dunker.
Now Dunker got caught in a lie.
I wasn't sure Day 2 if it was drealmerz or Dunker.
Things are different now. Drealmerz is dead, Dunker got caught lying and all we need to do is to vote.
We lynch Dunker now and they flip scum. Then, if it is a 6v3(one more scum) we lynch you the next day.
That's it.
Information from PRs is not dubious just because it is a role madness game. Setup information, maybe. But results are different. Especially claimed results that uncovered an untruthful claim.
And the explanation for that bad claim is horribly bad, I agree with Yeti here.

[Not Known 15]

The fact that you're trying to push this when no one besides maybe three players are online just reeks of opportunistic scum trying to squeeze a mislynch in when town can't object.

There are no valid objections to a dunker lynch, except an "Innocent" result claim or something like that.
Dunker got jailkept N1 and we got no kill. The other candidate, drealmerz, got lynched already.
Dunker got caught lying about their role
The explanation doesn't hold up.
Dunker gets lynched.
Every town who suggests otherwise is a VI or scum.
Hestiation here helps scum, not town.
And when Dunker flips scum and if the game doesn't end you are next.

[Not Known 15]

North said something.
Yeti said something.
Garaputo said something.
Porkens said something.
You said something
Dunker said something.
I said something.
Everyone posted at least once after the claim of Porkens.

[Not Known 15]

UNVOTE:

actually, let's not rush through this.

Ahem.

North was right at that point.
But if North had a guilty/innocent or something they would have claimed at that point; especially they wouldnt have voted in the first place.
But we got a role from Porkens to check.
We don't have any unfinished business for this day.

[Not Known 15]

Ok. All freeze. We have a night kill.
Yeti, who did you roleblock?

[Not Known 15]

North, if you are a tracker or something with a result it is also time to claim if the person is not the person yeti claims to have targeted.

[Not Known 15]

Nobody.

Wait WHAT?
You notice that you could have cleared somebody?
And that this does make you incredibly suspect?

[Not Known 15]

Jarbakas Majonaise:The Tower,Ninja Revenant;Lynched Day 1;Night 1 votestrengthened Garaputo(grave ability)

Drealmerz:The Hermit,Seeking Neighbourizer;Lynched Day 2;Day role, no night actions possible

Dunkerdoodles:The Hanged Man,Enigma;Lynched Day 3;no night actions performed/possible

Nancy/Anonymous Ghost: The Moon,Evolving Communicator;killed Night 3;Night 1 neighbourize Yetichain Night 2 not disclosed Night 3 unknown

Not Known 15:Unknown Significator,Self-sensing Ascetic Dead-Neighbourizer;no night results, no night actions possible

Porkens:Unknown Significator,Novice Rolecop;Night 1 no action Night 2 Dunker Night 3 garaputo

Yeti:Unknown Significator,Night 1 Loved Roleblocker;Night 1 Drealmerz Night 2 jailkept(target unknown) Night 3 no action

Little Uzi Vert/Northsidegal:Unknown Significator,Unknown Role;Night 1 not disclosed Night 2 not disclosed Night 3 not disclosed

acidphoenix/Garaputo:Unknown Significator,2-shot Neighbourizing Jailkeeper;N1 Dunkerdoodles,N2 Yetichain,N3 no action possible

UNIDENTIFIED SUSPECT:D2:Summoned Woman of Crystals

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Garaputo

[Not Known 15]

Yetichain is locktown btw.

Please explain this!

[Not Known 15]

Who'd you suspect more of the remaining two then, reading back... North or Garaputo? Both didn't have a good Day 1. But the Day 1 of North was worse, yet I think it might be rather Garaputo then - or you.
If Yeti is locktown for you then their lynch on Day 5 will be probably impossible.

[Not Known 15]

I think North is a little scummier than Garaputo

Hmm that might be.
But the thing is...
Some things were not explained to us.
Such as what these roles actually are(like Revenant).
One of them is if mafia can actually use the factional kill and their normal action or not...
If the answer is not... then Garaputo had good reasons not to kill. Very good reasons.
And... they(actually, Acid) were the one that started the "roleblocked" lynches by claiming X-shot jailkeeper.

You see garaputo defending me here?
I think that might be because they fear that they might be next on Day 5 if we follow this approach

But yes North also has problems, such as being on the verge of being lynched Day 1 - like me.

[Not Known 15]

Yetichain is locktown btw.

Please explain this!

I reread their posts

I enjoyed this sequence.

I didn't. The explanation was not good...
Garaputo, can you explain to me why Porkens, as scum, would target Dunker?

[Not Known 15]

That explanation was awesome. It handled that exclamation as best as I could have imagined. It also allowed for more specific followups.

Regarding Porkens, because you asked, I'll run the scenario:
Note: everything I'm about to say assumes Porkens is scum, I want to be really clear upfront. I don't particularly think that Porkens is scum.
If the scum know or have reason to believe that there are no vanilla players then rolecop of Dunker makes sense.
The other bit for Porkens as scum is more design based - in my experience rolecop benefits scum more than town.

We can cut out the design- scum had a Ninja. And the only one who would have been affected by a Ninja would have been myself(I would not notice attempted revenant actions on myself). So that was basically a suspicious(not clear guilty but suspicious) result for Porkens, making the rolecop much stronger.

Do you share the view of Porkens that Yetichain is locktown?

[Not Known 15]

That is interesting.
North and myself are the only ones remaining for you then,
... and we two were, besides Jarbakas, who actually got lynched, the two who both got into L-1 near the end there.
I don't share the view that Yetichain or Porkens are somehow locktown, there is still something suspicious on them(Porkens:their Day 1;Yeti:being jailkept Night 2)
but since I have to pick you and north are more suspicious.
Why should I vote North, and not you?

[Not Known 15]

I'd be happy to hear your case on NSG.

[Not Known 15]

And there is the LUV scuminess Day 1 (don't overlook this:NSG replaced LUV Day 1!).
Then there is the point that the vote on Jarbakas is not as exonerating as it looks- it was the last vote for a longer time until Nancy suddenly revived the wagon on Jarbakas.
The wagon got to L-1 before North came back. At that point, the removal of the vote would have been scummy, especially as they had just been at L-1 before and as they had openly scumread jarbakas about a week ago quite strongly.
The vote by North was an old vote that was

about ten days old

.

The people outside the jarbakas wagon on Day 1 are Garaputo(as acidphoenix) and myself(and drealmerz and jarbakas, but they got lynched)

With two others seeing Yeti as town there is little chance of a lynch today.
Which leaves myself, acidphoenix/Garaputo and LUV/NSG.
Nancy originally thought that the partner of Jarbakas might have been under pressure Day 1, which points to me, NSG/LUV and acid/garaputo
yet again.
I did a reread of Jarbakas behaviour.
There were three people who were defended by Jarbakas Day 1.
Myself, Northsidegal and Porkens.
Of the "early townreads" of Jarbakas(511), there are two dead... and one remains yet again. Porkens.

[Not Known 15]

And there is something more on porkens: The vote on Day 1, with a good number of hours left, could easily qualify as quickhammer.
They also voted very late on the two mislynches: Hammer on Day 2, second-last vote on Day 3.

[Not Known 15]

And there is the LUV scuminess Day 1 (don't overlook this:NSG replaced LUV Day 1!).
Then there is the point that the vote on Jarbakas is not as exonerating as it looks- it was the last vote for a longer time until Nancy suddenly revived the wagon on Jarbakas.
The wagon got to L-1 before North came back. At that point, the removal of the vote would have been scummy, especially as they had just been at L-1 before and as they had openly scumread jarbakas about a week ago quite strongly.
The vote by North was an old vote that was

about ten days old

.

i'm not sure why you seem to take this as a point against me – it means that i didn't move my vote off of him

up until deadline.

It is not so much a point against you than not a point for you; it could mean that you voted scum to get towncred on a wagon that you thought that it would not reach hammer and then parked your vote there until it was suddenly too late(that wagon seemed to come out of nowhere to me; in fact, when I visited the site Jarbakas had only your vote, when I came back they had been hammered.

[Not Known 15]

If we're talking about voting patterns, you have been on both town lynches iirc but not the scum one, and you're also being pretty opportunistic today. You're my top scumread right now, but I need to think.

The only reason why I trust myself is that I know that I am town.
The same voting pattern reasoning applies to garaputo; they were not on the scum lynch and on both town lynches
While Porkens was on the scum lynch, they were on the scum lynch as quickhammer.
The only one of us all who was not on both mislynches was Northsidegal who wasn't voting Day 3 at lynch.
All those who were not on the lynch Day 2 are dead.

I do NOT know, however, why you think I am opportunistic.
Right now, what I fear is that we lynch me, then someone gets killed... and then a final mislynch helps scum to win...

or worse, it is already MYLO

and Jarbakas can give scum a final vote to win this night.

[Not Known 15]

nk15, can you claim?

I already claimed my role Day 2 on the request of Nancy: Self-sensing Ascetic Dead-Neighbourizer.
What I didn't claim were my cards(except one, Death)
I am the Seven of Cups.
The other two cards are the Ten of Crystals and Death.

[Not Known 15]

That's still not a great explanation...

I'm going to have to do this analysis thing in bits. First is Jabarkas's ISO.

If possible, I'd like to generate pressure on lower content players.

Acid was the only real lurker at this point, as pointed out by Porkens shortly after this post. I don't think scum draws attention to a lurker partner like this.

Early read on Porkens such as 326 sounds like awkwardly explaining why he's treating Porkens differently to previous games. Could be partners there. I think Porkens returned the read.

385 to North is interesting, not sure which way that pushes me on her. Same with the North/me distinction in 426, and the North vote in 458 is pretty out of nowhere considering Varsoon (who was mostly driving and made this post) had stated a townread on her. XL had more of a scumread. Defense of Porkens there is also +partners, and the stuff addressed to NK15 sounds like he's talking to a townie but that's just a feeling.

North's 469, responded to by Jabarkas in 472, is very partnery to me - it's a question that further sets up Jabarkas to push their scumread on me.

488 does more of that keeping Porkens at arm's length thing.

491 (and later repetition that NK15 was clearly softing protective) strongly suggests not partners with NK15, though possibly faked - they say in 932 that NK15 could have protective slipped, so I'm not sure what on earth would keep their partner from shooting a suspected protective overnight.

566 (the part to North) sounds like talking to town.

aaand the rest is angry shouting that's a lovely note to finish reading the ISO on.

From that alone, Porkens and NK15 are probably most likely partners, followed by North, and finally gara.


-Key

491 (and later repetition that NK15 was clearly softing protective) strongly suggests not partners with NK15, though possibly faked - they say in 932 that NK15 could have protective slipped, so I'm not sure what on earth would keep their partner from shooting a suspected protective overnight.

Acid claimed protective(well they were). They didn't die either. Nobody died, and either they targeted Dunker, or they targeted no one.
Someone previously said that they might have thought that I was a hider trying to hide in Dunker(I mentioned Dunker Day 1 as a target; but that was just a Dead-Neighbourizer target). With the info we have, this is possible.

[Not Known 15]

What's more troubling from your analysis is that you found nothing that seems to suggest that the team is not Porkens/Jarbakas

[Not Known 15]

if porkens is scum then was jabarkas faking anger in response to porkens' vote?

pedit will look at that and respond to it in a second probably

Actually, did they need to fake anger?
It is not impossible to be angry about your scum partner bussing you Day 1 by hammering you.

I am still concerned about Yeti.
1. Anonymous Ghost told us they were less sure than Nancy that Yeti was really town.
Anonymous Ghost died.
2.The second no-kill gave us an extra lynch. Something scum would normally want to avoid. The only one who was supposed to be jailkept was Yeti.

[Not Known 15]

Also, there is something more about me and evidence.
Do you remember Day 1?
We knew that Acid was potentially protective then.
Why should I have, if I indeed were scum, attacked Dunker?
Or chosen to nokill?
No roleblocker had claimed roleblocker.

[Not Known 15]

That's still not a great explanation...

I'm going to have to do this analysis thing in bits. First is Jabarkas's ISO.

If possible, I'd like to generate pressure on lower content players.

Acid was the only real lurker at this point, as pointed out by Porkens shortly after this post. I don't think scum draws attention to a lurker partner like this.

Early read on Porkens such as 326 sounds like awkwardly explaining why he's treating Porkens differently to previous games. Could be partners there. I think Porkens returned the read.

385 to North is interesting, not sure which way that pushes me on her. Same with the North/me distinction in 426, and the North vote in 458 is pretty out of nowhere considering Varsoon (who was mostly driving and made this post) had stated a townread on her. XL had more of a scumread. Defense of Porkens there is also +partners, and the stuff addressed to NK15 sounds like he's talking to a townie but that's just a feeling.

North's 469, responded to by Jabarkas in 472, is very partnery to me - it's a question that further sets up Jabarkas to push their scumread on me.

488 does more of that keeping Porkens at arm's length thing.

491 (and later repetition that NK15 was clearly softing protective) strongly suggests not partners with NK15, though possibly faked - they say in 932 that NK15 could have protective slipped, so I'm not sure what on earth would keep their partner from shooting a suspected protective overnight.

566 (the part to North) sounds like talking to town.

aaand the rest is angry shouting that's a lovely note to finish reading the ISO on.

From that alone, Porkens and NK15 are probably most likely partners, followed by North, and finally gara.


-Key

I just reread this.

From that alone, Porkens and NK15 are probably most likely partners, followed by North, and finally gara.

How does Yetichain come to THAT conclusion from that evidence?
The partners conclusion should have me much lower on the list;
Porkens and North, followed by me and then gara, would make much more sense from that evidence.
That conclusion looks scummy to me.
Yetichain, how did you get to that conclusion?

[Not Known 15]

It's the fact that you softed protective

and didn't die,

despite flipped scum noting your CC as looking like a protective slip and also saying they didn't think acid was claiming protective.


North, did you say why you sent me the Woman of Crystals, and did you have any opinions on the fact that I didn't claim it?

Also I'm surprised that you'd not submit a night action.


-Key

The remaining scum probably thought that they could mislynch me.
Or they were not sure if I was really protective.

[Not Known 15]

Ok. The Yeti explanation makes sense.

Then I can come to a conclusion.
I have low confidence in my reads.
Everyone, except Yeti, has their fair share of scummy actions, unfortunately, including me.
But there are two additional reasons for the following vote.
The first is the partner evidence by Yeti, without any interaction that suggests otherwise.
The second is

nancy

Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra of Varsoon and Xaio Long)

Yetichain (hydra of Keychain and Yeticrab)
drealmerz7

Not Known 15
dunkerdoodles
acidphoenix
Lil Uzi Vert

that post.
Porkens ended up being the hammer of Jarbakas that day. Despite them being so high here.
Three red color people are still alive.
The only one to die via nightkill was Nancy/Anon, their only town read then(and that didnt change...)
VOTE: Porkens

[Not Known 15]

by the way, is anyone else thinking more and more that scum have just been no-killing? if you have alternative explanations i'd like to hear them.

I see more than one possibility remaining here:
Possibility 1: 2 no-kills. If scum was not allowed to do their role action and their kill, this would point to Garaputo. Otherwise... to anyone who manipulated us into believing that scum

must have been roleblocked somehow

.
Possibility 2: Day 1:Attack against Dunker. Day 2:No-kill. It is possible that this happened. Someone pointed out that I could have been classified as Hider(and it wasn't me) Night 1. This would not point to me, otherwise the same as possibility 1.
Possibility 3: Day 1:No-kill, Day 2 Attack against Yetichain; unlikely because garaputo said they would jailkeep Yeti.
Possibility 4: Day 1: Attack against Dunker, Day 2 Scum roleblocked; this points to Yetichain(jailkept Night 2), and does not contain a single no-kill.
Possibility 5:Day 1: Attack against Dunker Day 2: Attack against Yetichain; unlikely because of the same reasons as possibility 3.

[Not Known 15]

just thinking aloud there. i know i already made this point with dunkerdoodles and it turned out to be wrong, but when we look at jabarkas' reaction, we need to consider the possibilites of whether his partner bussed or not, and how his reaction may have been different towards his scumbuddy.

Hmm.... Jarbakas later points to everyone on the wagon who joined after Nancy. And explained why they are angry at them.
But I really don't know if that is a coverup attempt or not.
Everything else is definitely anger on being lynched that way, and that way would probably anger jarbakas with or without bus.

[Not Known 15]

NK15, you are really confusing me with how buckshot your suspicions are.

On one hand, as I've already noted, it comes off as "everyone but me/self serving" however I take some pause from your recent behavior because (WIFOM I know) I doubt you'd want to toss shade at literally everyone as scum.

I guess what I'm saying is that your behavior, while vocally sounding like "anyone but me" actually makes me think that you don't actually have to survive today to win.

Nope, that is too WIFOM. I think it's better to go with the first level thought, that you want anyone but you dead.

VOTE: Not Known 15

Actually, I want scum to die but I am unsure who is actually scum. My confidence in my porkens vote isn't very high.

[Not Known 15]

I can't remember though, did we get an explanation on why NK15 though a CC was appropriate here? Death neighbouriser to neighbourising JK has no reason to claim afaik. If a protective fakeclaim was set up from the start that could make sense from scum!NK15, but I don't understand why that would be the case.

Acid only claimed JK Day 2 not Day 1. On day 1 their claim was imprecise, and it suggested to me that there was a catch to their neighbourizing; and they also claimed that they could protect.
I initially thought they could claim something similar, but with a protective role(instead of self-sensing ascetic)
I did regret that CC pretty fast - when I thought about it again it looked bad to me (even if Acid was the same type of neighbourizer). I was happy that Jarbakas told me to stop CC's and told me why that CC would be probably bad, because it allowed me to
1. appear as something far more powerful than I was to scum
2. still negate the potential negative effects of the CC(an Acid mislynch, or a mislynch of mine
Now that I thought about this:
I have no confidence about this being scum-indicative, but what do you all think about Jarbakas trying to save Acid from a counterclaim there?

[Not Known 15]

I did more reading.

Now that I thought about this:
I have no confidence about this being scum-indicative, but what do you all think about Jarbakas trying to save Acid from a counterclaim there?

Not quite clear what you're getting at here - Porkens has confirmed gara's claim, I don't know that Jabarkas would be worried about a CC since the claim was almost definitely legit.


-Key

Yeah, right, Acid was not the problem Jarbakas saw, you are correct. It was Jarbakas, the Ninja Revenant, who had to fear a massclaim. He didn't try to save a partner, but rather himself.

[Not Known 15]

I am very sure now that one of those who is so eager to lynch me is scum. Garaputo and Porkens.
Of those two, the associatives uncovered by Porkens suggest it is Porkens.

Would like last words from NK15 before a hammer though. If they aren't scum then town needs all the help it can get for tomorrow.

You forgot my role.

[Not Known 15]

Okay, fair. Why not garaputo and I? You said you have no townreads.

I want an answer from North.
And when that is discussed, we need the rest of the votes.
We have discussed everything else, and time is starting to run out.
2 days and 9 hours left.

[Not Known 15]

I would say most players are playing as if this lynch is not critical and necessary, NK15 included.

What makes you think that I don't think that this lynch is critical? The lynch is definitely necessary, why do you think did I announce the time?

[Not Known 15]

Well, that reasoning still leaves three people.
Porkens and me,
... and you.

[Not Known 15]

Lol. All three players who didn't have major arcana as Significator survived.

GG. Sorry for being so scummy.