Open 703: Masons and Mafia Town Win!

[mozamis]

VOTE: jenshenVOTE:

[mozamis]

VOTE: jzhenson

[mozamis]

sorry got really bogged down in my other game last night, completely forgot about this one. Carching up in the next hour or so.

[mozamis]

really provisional read|:humaneating town for asking questions about how best to win the game. Gamesolving plus uncertain plus curious often = town

[mozamis]

V/LA from the 21st to the 25th, Going out of town for Christmas

In other news I think it may not be the worst thing for someone to fakeclaim mason as VT.

gambits to be avoided if possible, they tend to confuse the fuck out of everyone, and it's confusing enough when you are town already.

[mozamis]

OK. I claim a Mason.

please dont do this.

[mozamis]

A50 is probably town?

getting that vibe. He's not exactly blending in.

[mozamis]

???? ??? ?? ? ?? I think Imma policy lynch just to be safe.

VOTE: Almost50

agree its annoying. But he's prob town.

[mozamis]

No need for applause.. really. I know I'm always impressive with those probabilities.

shame mafia has nothing to do with maths, and is all bout psycholgy and emotions.

[mozamis]

Because i dont wanna have to try and mentally pronounce that name to myself all game

Blame Godel.
Btw in case Godel didn't make this public before-hand, this is a teaching hydra. I'm here to help Godel, so this is like 95% a Godel-game.

thanks fo rhte info without analysis. My first serious vote:
VOTE: mawhrinskel

[mozamis]

I don't like this post. Erratic posting isn't a scumtell, but the same logic that shoots that down would also lead you to believe that isn't not a town tell either. Because the logic doesn't seem to be coherent, it feels disingenous.

this sounds like bollocks, rb clearly said that "erratic posting..more of a towntell at this stage of game".
This is a really convoluted incoherent argument from you, sounds made up.

VOTE: jzensson

[mozamis]

Fitz and Humanmonkey's convo about masons claiming etc sound very town.They are both curious and out in the open. I also liked Rb's point about Almost's posting being town, which i totally agree with:
P.O.E:
Town Moz, Rb, Almost, Human, Fitz

So 4 scum in 8!: Comm, Million,Mawhrin, Junko, Wavemode, Jzenson, Hongzi and Gamma.
Already 50% chance of hitting scum! Like i said, maths sucks

[mozamis]

If one or both are scum, they'll be forced to use their daykill attempt or completely risk being lynched without attempting one.

insitnctively, i'm against it, because it could stifle discussion and force people to sheep people that dont have good reads.
Not saying i'm definitely against it, but it these plans often back ifre on town. They stop people thinking for themselves, and before yyou know itm you have some bullshit plan where 4 townies are quick lynched in a row.
Probably best just to keep scum hunting.

[mozamis]

Although these plans normally come from town, so i put Comm in town pile.
So 4 scum in: Million, Mawhrin, Junko, Wavemode, Jzenshen, Hongzi and Gamma

[mozamis]

As such, the Comm plan becomes obviously flawed and is indeed an attempt to identify "who's willing to vote whom".

plan might flawed. But normally are flawed cos they dont know whats going on. He's gamesolving which is normally town.

[mozamis]

*town normally are flawed

[mozamis]

Gamma's post 97 and 98 are both kinda empty, particularly with all the discussion that's gone on.

fos gamma

[mozamis]

llowing scum to hide behind "following the plan."

good point.

[mozamis]

I'm still suspicipous of Mwhren and Jzhensen, but this gets a wagon going on Gamma, so it seems more useful:
VOTE: gammaemeraldVOTE:

[mozamis]

VOTE: CommKnight

fake dumbtell

bye scum

Very unusual play for scum. Comm is cleared for me, until late game paranoia

[mozamis]

I'm also suspicious of Gamma Emerald's hovering.

absolutely

[mozamis]

My scumfuck sense is tingling

thanks for not giving any reads, and just casting shade.(on who anyway lol)
happy to lynch gamma, lets go.

[mozamis]

Does Comm fake confidence as Town when he's not sure?

he is a confident/over confident player, so it makes sense he would come up with a flawed plan but push it as town.

[mozamis]

and a few more posts from gamma without any reads, just a promise of him making some which he wont share?!
VOTE: gammaVOTE:

[mozamis]

jeez why wont the vote work?

VOTE: gamma

[mozamis]

people should vote for gamma.
another reason is he is casting shade on comm wihtout voting him.

[mozamis]

Would it not have been more convenient for Scum!Gamma to fake some reads or something, rather than expressing his frustration in the manner he did?

i was in a game very recently where scum threatened to replace out. The replace out threat/replace out/ragequit is NAI, seen it both ways.

[mozamis]

fair point, i dont know his game well enough.
he seems scummy in other ways so i guess i'm that bothered.

[mozamis]

*NOT that bothered

[mozamis]

Gamma in full on survival mode...
Catching up properly tonight.
But I can't see I'm gonna change my mind. Case on Gamma is straightforward:
1) His first couple of posts were entirely empty.
2) He asked a entiely fake question of...someone, i forget who. It was very clear what the guy had said. Gamma was clearly asking the question for the sake of having something to post.

[mozamis]

You've upped your game dramatically since you've been near lynch.
There was a lot of discussion going on which you didn't comment on at all. That can be a scumtell because scum know what is being discussed doesn't matter. Town would have commente don what was going on.

[mozamis]

Gonna give Humanmonkey a townpass for Day 1 for sheer effort. It is possible that he's good scum, but he's not a day 1 lynch. And he probably IS town. The theory wall post stuff is...whatevr...but he is also giving out a lot of opinions.

[mozamis]

Where's wavemode? He's quite acive as town s a very minor Fos o fhim, plus his not in my townpile.

[mozamis]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm not comfortable with putting anyone to L-1 this early, and when multiple playas are on V/LA.

VOTE: jhenzon93

ASAP get back on Gamma i reckon. But i hear you, we need to hear from other people. I cant see myself changing my mind about Gamma though.
Like the Jzenshen vote. His posts seem very empty.
I could lynch him if people prefer him to Gamma.

[mozamis]

I'm not certain there even is scum on my wagon.

i do this when i am scum, try and placate everyone on my wagon. A form of mass buddying. "Hey, everyone on my wagon is prob town...ps unvote now please cos i like you!"

Town normally get more OMGUSy than this.

[mozamis]

so I'm prob most up for lynching gamma, Jenshen, Wavemode or Mawhrinskel.
The last 2 are that mixture of "quite possibly scum but also a compromise lurker lynch".

[mozamis]

I'd rather do 2iam than A50

can't see Almost as scum, the guy is sticking out like a sore thumb.
2IAM maybe, he is a bit vague and wishy washy.

[mozamis]

Wow, a context-free read list defended by circular truisms.

What a sterling game contribution!

played with Wave once, he was town, and he was similarly unhelpful then. So my gut response is town.

[mozamis]

Sweet!
So we got that right - i'm still up for Gamma, but Wave was defending Jzenhson?

[mozamis]

here now catching up posting soon sorry for the delay

[mozamis]

anyone kno wmuch about Jenzshen's meta? Like, would he bus Junko here?

[mozamis]

Sweet!
So we got that right - i'm still up for Gamma, but Wave was defending Jzenhson?

Sorry, scratch that - Wave was defending Gamma.

[mozamis]

I just now caught up with the thread and I want to think about it and sleep on it since it was about 10 pages of content I am digesting.

Some initial thoughts, while we can't let the game stall I don't think we necessarily need to rush to a lynch, since there is no night phase and no plurality lynch we can just wait for the day to end and then just revote and it will be like nothing happened. At some point we do have to lynch someone or else the game stalls but I don't think we need to rush or let some arbitrary time limit dictated when we need to lynch someone(sorry mod)

@mod I will be v/la from 23 dec to 1 jan, visiting family, should still be able to get on and post(may even have more time than I do now, hate the pre holiday stress)

PEDIT was just about to hit submit when the thread was locked and I for sure need to think about this. Though will be around for about another 30 min if anyone wants to ask me anything.

THIS is your catch up post?! Lol - no reads, opinions, analysis. Just "no rush to a lynch".
Happy to lynch this if people dont want Gamma.

[mozamis]

I have been gone for about 10 pages worth of content which is like a /23 of the game content and for me it is a lot to take in.

my point is that we're some way into the game now and you have posted no content.

[mozamis]

hong goes from red to green on my list for pushing jzhen

good spot he's out of my lynch pool for today

so 3 scum in:
Million, Mawhrin, Junko, Wavemode and Gamma

wavemodes recent post sseemlike hes scum hunting, so i woul dprob narrow it down to 3 scum in
Million, Mawhrin, Junko and Gamma.
In order of preference: Gamma, Mawhrin, Million and Junko.

[mozamis]

Consider my vote to be there on spirit.

what is this? either vote for him, or dont.

[mozamis]

@ Almost, come on your town, vote for Gamma.

[mozamis]

we lynch scum now, we destroy their morale. Let not piss about.

[mozamis]

*Let's

[mozamis]

How am I scum if gamma is town?

yeah this guy probably is scum.
He's too worried about whether people will scum read him or not, he's not looking FOR scum.

[mozamis]

A50 is definitely scum. But we should lynch Gamma first to be sure.

I hear what you are saying, his last few posts have been weird as fuck.
But still having hard time seeing Almost as scum, hes just so out in the open, taking hard stances on everything, although i think he is probably wrong.
Much rather lynch Gamma, Mwgren or Million before Almost.

[mozamis]

i dont quite get why almost is so convinced gamma is town. Based on meta? meta can be useful, but its not alwways great as you can end in confo bias.
@ Almost - Gamma has done a damn thing to find scum, surely you can see that.

[mozamis]

*HASN'T...
*headdesk*

[mozamis]

@ almost - please could you find a way to scuccintly summarise your soporific stanzas?
Joking aside, some of your wall posts are getting epic. Be great if you could tighten up the prose a tad for us poor tired-as-fuck-bastards.
For the record I still think you're town. That or you are playing one hell of a scum game. But yeah...how about some love for the one liner lovers?!

[mozamis]

we just dont know for ure if gamma is scum, or if scum shot gamma, or if scum shot someone else. Its jsut a world of WIFOM/speculation.

[mozamis]

However, old fshioned scum huntign strongly suggests the guy is scum, and is an excellent day 1 lynch.

[mozamis]

Why is this not relevant information?

I agree, it IS very relevant infomation. Scum love to bus for a bit, for distancing, and then get off the wagon. "soft bussing".
Come on guys, we're letting scum slip away here.

[mozamis]

He shot someone whose flip would have either saved jz or someone he thought was a Mason. Now do place yourself in Scum!Jz's shoes and take your aim. Who would you have shot to save yourself? Who would have been your best guess for a Mason? You don't even need to answer in the thread, Just do the math yourself.

Obviously he was hoping he was shooting a mason. But Jenz wasnt under much suspicion so he didn't need to save himself. And Gamma was townreading Jenz. This is the only post Gamma talked about Jenz:

18: RVS
67: kinda makes sense
85: raises good points imo
99: more good points
126: I feel his criticism is legitimate, it's the same reason I got the feeling Hongzi was scum from that post saying he would analyze 2iam
216: not really much here

So jz seems somewhat towny at this point.

So, maybe Jenz thought Gamma was mason, but who knows, that is pure speculation. He certainly wouldnt have seen Gamma as a threat. So the idea that Gamma is somehow town because Jenz thought he was a mason is just random, has no basis in the evidence at all.
So forget about the shooting spec. Just look at what Gamma has done - apart fromn townread conf. scum - and it is very little, and BS.

[mozamis]

@ Fitz - I'm hard pushing Gamma.
Unless i havent voted since the re-set? Just in case:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[mozamis]

You either didn't read the post you're responding to or you're throwing shade on someone you previously hard TR'd. Which is it? And if the2nd, what changed your mind?

what are you talking about? I have been hard scum reading Gamma pretty much all game.

[mozamis]

@ those voting Wavemode - this a town post, the guy is scumhunting, looking at the evidence and changing his reads accordingly, in a logical and OPEN way.

Hm nobody has daychat so no gambiterino

hong goes from red to green on my list for pushing jzhen

[mozamis]

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

he could well be scum. But how do you feel about Gamma, we have a slightly bigger wagon in him?

[mozamis]

VOTE: MawhinSkel

1.) Gamma isn't being lynched today, suck it up.
2.) We already have information without flipping him. Pushing for his flip seems to be you wanting to know if he's VT or Mason.
3.) Skel and Junko are more informational at this point.

again, i agree he's prob scum. But the Gamma wagon is larger, and probably more informative.

[mozamis]

so many of his posts just seem empty to me

[mozamis]

Case against Gamma

1) Kicks off with rolefishing:

In other news I think it may not be the worst thing for someone to fakeclaim mason as VT.

2)

That's it. I'm never gonna vote fitz ever in this game.

Why?

Almost had already explain this. A made up question.

Then proceeds to Tr everyone on his wagon. Cant see town doing this.
Just dont see any real scumhuntign from him at all.

[mozamis]

@fitz: When I asked about the Scum shots I was told they can shoot any number of times a any given time.

Did you ask in game or privately?

yeah they can shooot anytime as many times as they want.
sounds good but as we have seen, shooting is risky.

[mozamis]

How does it make sense that jz shoots when he only had 3 votes on him and Gamma doesn't when he had 5 (got to 6 even, but only for a few minutes so maybe he wasn't online to see it).

You're ASSUMING that JZ shot because he felt threatened. As you say, there were only 3 votes on him, so maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
Likewise, maybe Gamma didn't feel particularly threatened. Or maybe he did but didn't want to shoot anyway, thinking it was too risky.

[mozamis]

woot! another one down!
and its was million!
*smug mode* lol
can we do Gamma now?

[mozamis]

What about JC and hong?

lots of questions and no reads! thanks gamma.
LYNCH THIS.

[mozamis]

we lynch gamma and Mawhr, we win.

[mozamis]

dont hink i revoted him
VOTE: gamma

[mozamis]

If this flips red, final scum is Moz I believe.

i have had said Gamma, Jenzsen, Million and Mewhrskel have been the scum team for the whole game. Appreciate the complimet that you think i have got the scum game to BUS ALL OF MY TEAM MATES but no.
Plus i have been pushing the game along for quite a lot of it. Dont understand your read at all.
Anyway, doesnt matter, lynch Gamma, game over.

[mozamis]

Checking out, won't be here for five days or so

thats not gonna stop us lynching you, you have had a lot of time to defend yourself. So bye

[mozamis]

If scum isn't in the lynchbaity players like JunkoChan or Skel, it's probably rb and havingfitz.

agree,if i'm worng about gamma and mewhr, then fitz could be worth a look. he has been very vague.

[mozamis]

The town of CommKnight, Almost50, JunkoChan, mozamis, wavemode, humaneatingmonkey, Hongzi, rb and Gamma Emerald has won!


The Masons were JunkoChan, Hongzi, Almost50 and mozamis.

jzhenson93 shot humaneatingmonkey
TwoInAMillion shot rb

so i got 3 out of 4! Though fitz was on my peripheral vision. Nice work guys, tho last thing i knew a few hours ago i was still alive and the game was on! I log back in, I'm toast and it's all over! lol!
Sorry Gamma...

[mozamis]

I also would like to thank my fellow Masons for letting me do my stunt at the start of the game

what stunt? you voting Comm?

[mozamis]

Lesson to take from this: A50 and I make a very deadly town duo.

indeed, combined you both ALMOST nailed as many scum as i did

[mozamis]

OK. I claim a Mason.

please dont do this.

lol had forgotten that

[mozamis]

you making yourself look really town helped, i thought they would shoot you. nice work!