Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments

A subforum entirely dedicated to the discussion of titles. The title fairy has carte blanche in this subforum.
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Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:42 pm

Post by Psyche »

This thread has been created to allow community members to make suggestions, discuss ideas, and to comment on the current Title Fairy procedures.

Keep it civil! This is for productive discussion, not snarky takedowns.

Understand that while your input is definitely valued, ultimately the current Title Fairy has to make the call that it believes is in the best interest of the Title Fairy institution and MS. It is not a democracy.

This thread is not for nominations for player titles. Go hereto make a nomination of a player.
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Post Post #1 (isolation #1) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by Psyche »

So, here are my plans.

I think titles matter, and that titles should continue to matter. This system I really respect derives its value, I think, from the value of what it produces. Yeah, they're just small text strings, but they're small text strings that follow a user wherever they go on this forum and are specially crafted to hold a lot of meaning to a lot of people. Deep to their core, they're nice, shiny gifts, given from a community to a user. I think the Title Fairy's mission is to preserve this community-centered process and these high standards.
My overall strategy for preserving and building this institution will be to emphasize title standards on the one hand, and to help users more frequently meet them on the other.
Better titles, more titles.

Titles should not just be gifts, but really nice gifts. Higher standards alone are straightforwardly implemented (I can just reject titles I don't think are good)! But with this emphasis alone, there will merely be fewer titles, not more good titles. Is anyone really better off? Title quality is therefore not the only issue; there's a fundamental scarcity. There's a number of users who the community would probably agree deserve good titles, but the work required for producing them is too difficult to match demand. I have several ideas for improving title productivity while simultaneously emphasizing title standards:

-
Clearer, crowd-sourced, more positive standards for good titles.
It's easier for a lot of people to reach the goalposts if they know exactly where those goalposts are. Right now, to some extent it's clear to scummers what doesn't count as a good title (eg username puns), but more ambiguous what
does
. I will try to workshop with the community a set of positive guidelines (ie best practices) for good titles so that users can get a clear suggestive sense of what a community is looking for in title nominations. Of course, a problem with specifying standards for titles is that they can be constraining. My plan to avoid this might be to emphasize a diversity of viewpoints on how good titles stand out, so people feel empowered to assert their own standards in dialogue with everyone else's. Or maybe can be communicated in a less prescriptive manner (ie a pool of the site's favorite titles annotated with explanations for their success that can be used as exemplars).

-
Facilitated community involvement and a more active subforum.
I will do stuff to make the Title Fairy subforum more exciting and well-known around the site, being a bit theatrical, creating 'events' based around titles, and actively inviting people to participate in title nominations/discussions. The workshopping I mentioned above is one example of this, but I have others. I might organize a poll or other game to highlight forgotten-yet-really-good titles, or to sort how much the community values different titles. Maybe I'll recognize people for a record of particularly successful title nomination(s), encouraging them and potential emulators. With respect to all of these ideas, I'll start small and avoid concurrence to make sure things run smoothly and no crowding out of activity happens elsewhere on the site. But still, lots can be done.

-
Programmatically designed tools and other resources for brainstorming titles.
I like to code stuff, and I'm really interested in understanding thoroughly how good titles are made. I will try to produce tools to facilitate this process. For example, I mentioned this before in the old title thread, suggesting the possibility of inventing a pun-title generator that takes a list of or a single "reference" to be made about a user (like, for example, "Rap") and performs a series of synonym/homophone and idiom searches to produce an exhaustive list of idiomatic puns on the original reference(s). Of course, if they're interested in a non-pun-based title the tool might not be as useful. However, for a subset of users who really want to nominate someone for some reason but can't quite find a clever way to phrase it, a tool like this could be a great resource, without ever really decentering the users' place or the community's place in the title nomination process. This and other resources might not need to be so computationally intensive, but the same strategy holds true: facilitate user creativity by giving them certain kinds of information.

There's probably more I could do. If you have more ideas for initiatives that serve my general strategy, or wanna talk through my general strategy, here we are. In the short term, the title subforum will be much like it's always been, but with me approving/rejecting/moderating noms. But in my free time, tinkering lots of tinkering.
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Post Post #6 (isolation #2) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:36 pm

Post by Psyche »

If you do anything too fancy to the title wiki, it will stop you, as it takes up too much memory or something. I'd like a find a way to clean the page up while keeping things simple. Maybe format it like this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases ?
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Post Post #18 (isolation #3) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:52 am

Post by Psyche »

I think it's a decent idea, but I want to find a way to implement it that's minimally obtrusive or elaborate. Ideally users should be able to decide for themselves if a title will stand the test of time or not. Or at least I should be able to make that call if they can't. But yeah, people can get starry-eyed.

Maybe I'll come up with a possible Step 3 decision option besides approval/rejection - maybe call it "Limbo" - where I require titles I'm ambivalent or concerned about to jump a higher hurdle that's specified according to the situation (maybe extra nths, a waiting period, more evidence, etc). And a special case of that could be event-based titles potentially too soon after the referenced event?
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Post Post #26 (isolation #4) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:04 am

Post by Psyche »

very no on the council idea sry
but maybe some variation will be useful someday!
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Post Post #40 (isolation #5) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:55 am

Post by Psyche »

I've decided I'll just rely on the community and my own judgment to make sure event-based titles are of broad meaning and value to the community.
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Post Post #42 (isolation #6) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:12 am

Post by Psyche »

specifications?
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Post Post #56 (isolation #7) » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:04 am

Post by Psyche »

I'm very interested in the possibility of improving the visibility of the Player Title subforum so that more users (ie not the usual GD crowd) will be interested in participating in discussions and, more importantly, in proposing new titles. I'm not sure asking Zor to make yet another Site Announcement is the right approach, so maybe we can brainstorm other possibilities?
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Post Post #58 (isolation #8) » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:07 am

Post by Psyche »

while that'd be effective, the Queue is about signup threads for Mafia Games
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Post Post #81 (isolation #9) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:35 am

Post by Psyche »

yeah but i want more
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Post Post #88 (isolation #10) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:59 am

Post by Psyche »

Well my plan was to encourage more nominations while simultaneously 1) increasing standards and 2) making it easier for people to meet those standards with a new set of tools/guides.
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Post Post #90 (isolation #11) » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:08 am

Post by Psyche »

ty for ur input guys i have a few ideas now
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Post Post #96 (isolation #12) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:39 am

Post by Psyche »

would probably be difficult to implement
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Post Post #98 (isolation #13) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:06 am

Post by Psyche »

oh not that the other thing
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Post Post #145 (isolation #14) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Psyche »

plz keep noms in nominating thread you are pressuring my fragile mind
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Post Post #148 (isolation #15) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by Psyche »

hello friends i have made the decision that i will totally change the policy back before tomorrow if one of you orders pizza for me right now
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Post Post #151 (isolation #16) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:03 pm

Post by Psyche »

no no this policy is for real
but after enduring a lot of criticism im willing to go against my better judgment for pizza
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Post Post #153 (isolation #17) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:05 pm

Post by Psyche »

i do not think so but right now psychology as a science is experiencing a replication crisis
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Post Post #155 (isolation #18) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:12 pm

Post by Psyche »

i think it depends on the field/subject, and on what your standards for suckiness are
cognitive psychology in general, for example, i think is in a pretty good spot; it has some of the highest replication rates of the field
in general ive always thought of cognitive psych as "hard" psych bc that's where all the more quantitative nerds go (and also the ones that know their neurobiology)
and have been hoping to transfer its methodological rigor to softer fields like social psych
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Post Post #176 (isolation #19) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:49 pm

Post by Psyche »

no
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Post Post #185 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by Psyche »

I'll move it to the correct thread
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Post Post #187 (isolation #21) » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:25 am

Post by Psyche »

I
am
the Senate.
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Post Post #200 (isolation #22) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Post by Psyche »

Ok guys, so I'm planning a reboot of everything soon centering around me creating a bot to administer the subforum and webtool(s) to facilitate title brainstorming. The possibility of implementing this stuff is central to why I tried to become the Title Fairy, and I have a 1-month long window between now and when I start being a Real Adult With a Job and Bills and Stuff to make it happen. The strategy has always been to make these systems, perfect and expand them over the next few months, and then either rest on my laurels or pick a new successor I trust to build on what I've done and not approve bad titles. Now that I'm a comfortably established fairy and free to code night and day without feeling INTENSE GUILT, it's time to move forward on that.

I find that I often make steady progress on projects when I think them through in public threads, so I'm gonna do that here. In keeping with the thread's theme, I invite you to offer feedback and new ideas to sharpen this process as it continues on. I hope to make something that a new fairy can start using and even modify with little effort, and more importantly, would want to do such things. And of course, I want everything I make to strike most users as clearcut improvements to the Title Fairy institution.

First thing:
Title Bot

I want to make a bot that moderates the Title Fairy thread for me. It will:
- Update the OP (potentially including more detailed info than already present
- Keep up with Noms and Anti-Noms
- Implement title changes when I approve them (presumably by typing the magic words)
- Have a much cooler name than "Title Bot"

I've already made something similar with Necrobot, but that actually stopped working for unclear reasons and wasn't shaped for other scummers' use. Still, since I can jump off of that, I don't think this'll take more than a day or so to finish. When I do, I'll probably start planning for a new Title Fairy thread (may want to design a new OP with a different ruleset and whatnot first, or even put together other projects first). But I'll think about that later. You'll see more thinkthrough posts here, and maybe a test thread elsewhere in the subforum. wOoOo
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Post Post #202 (isolation #23) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:02 pm

Post by Psyche »

well theyve always meant something to
me
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Post Post #204 (isolation #24) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:23 pm

Post by Psyche »

How about I stick to Fairy Godmother that seems wordplay enough.
or maybe since it's mafiascum.net it should be Fairy Godfather.
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Post Post #206 (isolation #25) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by Psyche »

yeah id say things are easier that way
btw plz dont call my bot an "it" that's very rude
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Post Post #208 (isolation #26) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:35 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 207, Aristophanes wrote:Then hoe will people know it's a bot?
maybe you're right
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Post Post #210 (isolation #27) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Psyche »

oh right i forgot the bot has to do things only psyche can do
maybe the bot will just be me :(
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Post Post #212 (isolation #28) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Post by Psyche »

i would get jealous
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Post Post #214 (isolation #29) » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:43 pm

Post by Psyche »

mostly just brainstorming tonight

i think i have the basic structure of the program down now and will just have to work out the details next

a 'spider' that scans posts
a spider than makes posts
a spider that edits posts
a spider that changes titles
a spider that sends pms

i make those, and then what's left is just a wrapper main function that orchestrates those to do the cool things
and then later if i or anyone else wants to make a new bot that involves activities like making posts or sending pms, i don't have to make any new spiders; i just have to write a somewhat different wrapper
alas, some of these are already prepared from my work on necrobot

aint coding the coolest...
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Post Post #217 (isolation #30) » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:07 am

Post by Psyche »

thats a good point maybe my time is more valuable than this
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Post Post #220 (isolation #31) » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:42 am

Post by Psyche »

what about the program that suggests titles based on input traits/hobbies
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Post Post #221 (isolation #32) » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:46 am

Post by Psyche »

i'll still make it, but with the understanding that this is unnecessary hobbyist work that maybe a future fairy won't bother to use
less, uh, gradiosity
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Post Post #224 (isolation #33) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:12 pm

Post by Psyche »

i said id only do it if i didn't program the thing within a specific time frame
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Post Post #226 (isolation #34) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:05 pm

Post by Psyche »

the program will be up!
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Post Post #229 (isolation #35) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:23 am

Post by Psyche »

Maybe, but I don’t know. Feels like the wrong place to put the band-aid.
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Post Post #231 (isolation #36) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:38 am

Post by Psyche »

hello friends
so im finishing the titlebot this weekend and have done some planning around it

things it'll do:
- maintain the op
- regular "votecounts"
- passively enforce certain rules
- implement titles
- support brainstorming of new titles

The introduction of titlebot shouldn't be very "big" experientially for the thread, instead just consisting of a more thorough and less haphazard approach to the whole title fairy 'thing'.

At the same time, however, I may do a bit of an experiment. I might be diminishing my role as arbiter over whether a title is good or not, and instead focus on just smoothly carrying out my administrative duties for the thread and enforcing its rules. This shift will accompany changes to said rules, though, with the goal of us having a title process whose output quality doesn't depend so much on the whims/tastes of the current fairy.

For example, the importance of my input on the aesthetic quality might be reduced to that of a normal user (eg ill have an nth and a counternom I can use to exert preferences like everyone else) on the one hand,
but
further focus might be placed on anti-noms, waiting periods, etc as tools for ensuring that titles *do* reflect community preferences and not just a subset thereof on the other.

All of this, again, will be experimental, and could be partially or even fully reverted/modified as
I become more and more horrified by the way you guys exercise your freedom
we observe how these principles play out in practice. But I think that it won't really change much about how the thread works. Rather, it'll impact
why
the thread works.
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Post Post #234 (isolation #37) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:39 am

Post by Psyche »

probably not tbh
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Post Post #235 (isolation #38) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:53 am

Post by Psyche »

this will be my test thread for a while
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Post Post #238 (isolation #39) » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Post by Psyche »

tell me the real secret to motivation zakk
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Post Post #241 (isolation #40) » Mon May 07, 2018 12:22 pm

Post by Psyche »

zakk’s posts here are funnier in retrospect
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