Open 703: Masons and Mafia Town Win!

[rb]

"rb is not rb this game"

Right, and whose alt are you?

[Alisaes French Maid]

Day 1, VC 7

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Gamma Emerald (5) -

havingfitz, jzhenson93, Hongzi, mozamis, TwoInAMillion

Almost50 (2) -

JunkoChan, Gamma Emerald

CommKnight (1) -

rb

jzhenson93 (1) -

humaneatingmonkey

humaneatingmonkey (1) -

MawhrinSkel

Not Voting (3) -

CommKnight, wavemode, Almost50

Mod Notes

- wavemode is VLA until the 17th
- Gamma Emerald will be VLA from the 21st to the 25th
- havingfitz is VLA until Monday

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-12-22 18:00:00)

[rb]

I take a long-ass break from mafia purely because I was so sick of people just expecting me to play to some hyper-active meta, because I couldn't enjoy a single game of mafia without receiving attention for 'deviating from my town-play' because for some reason everyone just expects me to try-hard every single game. Even though I've never done that, I've always had a combination of high-effort and low-effort games just depending on how enjoyable I'm finding the game.

Not even past Day 1 and already dealing with it. Awesome.

[Hongzi]

@Everyone voting Gamma:
I felt his "I want to replace out" bit was sincere and that he was really confused and frustrated as he couldn't form reads. Would it not have been more convenient for Scum!Gamma to fake some reads or something, rather than expressing his frustration in the manner he did?

Maybe scum!Gamma would take a more subtle route; I've never played a game with them but between 17k posts (good gravy, btw) and more than a few games under their belt, one would think they'd be more careful with the frustration posts as scum. Then again, there's a bit of evidence that suggests Gamma's merely skimmed the thread in light of the wagon on 'em running up.

If not Gamma, jzhenson looks scummy after reading mozamis' posts about em, with CommKnight 190 looking to me like it comes from a town place and moving him up the read list away from lynching.

[JunkoChan]

CommKnight town
TwoInAMillion town
MawhrinSkel town
mozamis town
Hongzi town

Almost50 probtown

wavemode null

rb nullscum

JunkoChan* probscum
jzhenson93 probscum
havingfitz probscum
Gamma Emerald probscum

I don't like how JunkoChan started the game.
I don't like how jzhenson93 have reads that are totally inorganic.
I don't like how havingfitz preaches masons claiming like it's inconsequential and without repercussions. Like it's a safe thing to do.
I don't like how Gamma Emerald is delaying to share with the game when he has posts that shows he's reacting organically. I think it's conflicting to what his mindset seems to be. I haven't seen this version Gamma Emerald yet so I'm suspicious about it.

rb is not rb this game.

Almost50 seems honest but sometimes it feels like a facade.

To be honest I got so behind in this thread that Idk where to start (I did read all of it and basicly monkeymonkey took over the leading position while making a enormous amount of readings I agree with this list, (sorry again for inactivity) I had a whole plan around my first few posts but it's too late for that I think the fact that Gamma wasn't hammered yet means that he is either a mason or scum and I'm inclined to believe that he is scum.

I'm willing to join the wagon once you guys feel confortable with ending the day.

[MawhrinSkel]

Prodge, sorry guys, I was working all weekend unexpectedly(a friend has an events planning company and one of their guys had a lung infection and canceled last minute so I helped out for the weekend). Will read up and post more when I get home, its a bit of a pain on my phone.

[JunkoChan]

Happy Birthday! (prolly late)

Forgot to reply, Thank you! better later than never ^^

[humaneatingmonkey]

"rb is not rb this game"

Right, and whose alt are you?

I'm not an alt. We played a game together. Or I replaced out from a game we were both playing together but I was still reading it after.

Meta is a tool, buddy. What can I say? Notice how I'm not even trying to prosecute you for it. Go ahead and play however you like. Come on. I'm just watching. But if you're trying to hide an agenda, that will sure show.

Moving on. On Gamma's replace out sentiment: I hate when people do this. But it's NAI. But notice how he has done nothing AI of town in his ISO yet.

To be honest I got so behind in this thread that Idk where to start (I did read all of it and basicly monkeymonkey took over the leading position while making a enormous amount of readings I agree with this list, (sorry again for inactivity) I had a whole plan around my first few posts but it's too late for that I think the fact that Gamma wasn't hammered yet means that he is either a mason or scum and I'm inclined to believe that he is scum.

I'm willing to join the wagon once you guys feel confortable with ending the day.

Happy birthday, Junko-chan! Why is this the scummiest post in this thread? Please explain your abandoned plan and why you think scum would hammer this soon in the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which wagon are we doing? Gamma Emerald looks fruitful because he might start town spewing or spewing bullshit. Everyone else in my probscum list I want to observe a little more first.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm trying to be more controlled with my posting this game, and maybe that's having an influence on reads on me.

@Hongzi, 2iam, jzhenson:

why are you voting me?

[Almost50]

@HEM: Let's cool down and be civilized. This a game of Mafia, not a bar fight. Ok?

Now please explain to me the following like I'm 5:

I'm also suspicious of Gamma Emerald's hovering.

Now here's some reads:

INCLINED TO NOT LYNCH:

rb
MawhrinSkel

jzhenson93

INCLINED TO BE SUSPICIOUS AT:
Almost50

INCLINED TO WAGON:
TwoInAMillion
CommKnight
JunkoChan

INCLINED TO FLASHLYNCH:
havingfitz

NOT EVEN PART OF THE GAME YET
Hongzi
mozamis
wavemode

VOTE: jzhenson93

I don't like how this guy is approaching this game at all. He's an alt account, right?

CommKnight town
TwoInAMillion town
MawhrinSkel town
mozamis town
Hongzi town

Almost50 probtown

wavemode null

rb nullscum

JunkoChan* probscum

jzhenson93 probscum

havingfitz probscum
Gamma Emerald probscum

I don't like how JunkoChan started the game.
I don't like how jzhenson93 have reads that are totally inorganic.
I don't like how havingfitz preaches masons claiming like it's inconsequential and without repercussions. Like it's a safe thing to do.
I don't like how Gamma Emerald is delaying to share with the game when he has posts that shows he's reacting organically. I think it's conflicting to what his mindset seems to be. I haven't seen this version Gamma Emerald yet so I'm suspicious about it.

rb is not rb this game.

Almost50 seems honest but sometimes it feels like a facade.

I've highlighted the object of my question. Exactly what has changed between you #111 & your #213 that prompted that reversal in you read on jz, taking into account he only posted the 2 posts to be found in the spoiler between your those two points.

Spoiler: Show me the light, bro!

I find it difficult to get reads from speculating about the strategy. It's essentially a logic puzzle, and while people can be bad at solving a logic puzzle, analyzing it has very little to do with your alignment. Scum can easily join in on that discussion without having to give anything away. I said this before, but I think there are much more interesting discussions to be had.

I'm kinda offput by the amount of pushback Comm is receiving but A50 has some sound reasoning in his most recent post so I'll think on it a bit.

Like with this post. It's so noncommittal, and reads almost like "I want to have a say in this discussion but I'm not sure where it's gonna go so I'll chime in here and wait it out." A scummy take on (as I see it) a fruitless dialogue.

UNVOTE: rb
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: jzhenson93

I don't like how this guy is approaching this game at all. He's an alt account, right?

Popping in tonight to address this, giving things a re-read tomorrow morning to see what comes of it.

I was on mafiascum when I was in high school and, even though I really enjoy playing mafia, I didn't have a mature enough handle on managing my time and ended up chronically replacing out of games.

Now that I'm done with my master's and settling into a more stable schedule, I came back to the site to get back into mafia as a hobby. So I guess you could call me an alt, but there's no main account with sizeable enough experience to really matter.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm cool. Imagine me as some cheeky loud joker than some hotheaded gorilla. Cunt is a term of endearment.

Reads change. It's not some progression of some sort. I just found jzhenson on my second reading to be quite of a reacher. His observations were not one I would think would come organically from someone who is reading the thread with no info whatsoever. Instead, it came to me that he could be scum trying to look like he's scumhunting but not really having the skill to pull off making them seem like they're coming from town.

Before, I placed him in the not lynching block because I thought "oh wow guy's using logic must be town!" but then I reevaluated that scum would likely use logic to ironclad their attacks and not seem like scum.

[Almost50]

Thank you.

I think I feel a little bot better about HEM right now. Not by much, but enough to move on.

Ironically, the next subject on my list IS jz, so I'ma put my vote on there and hope to get something fruitful out of it. If not, I'm likely to turn on my turbo-lynching engines on in order to see a flip and be able to reevaluate my reads.

VOTE: jzhenson93

[Almost50]

@Hongzi, 2iam, jzhenson:

why are you voting me?

They're probably my Scum partners and are doing it as a payback for your vote on me.

Spoiler:

Oh, shit! I forgot I've just voted jz myself, but it can always be attributed to distancing, so hopefully nobody would notice!

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok so I checked the last game both me and Almost50 were starters for and yeah his posting was similar to here.
UNVOTE: Almost50 while I determine if my other gripe (surface level play) is worth still voting him for.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I have to say A50 has fixed his play

[humaneatingmonkey]

Keep those scum jokes coming, A50. If you flip scum, you'll be pissing your buddies off.

If anyone wants to know, I prefer MONKEY over HEM.

[rb]

So we played half a game together and you're calling that, "meta"...

I mean just about everyone who uses meta, uses it wrong, but this is like a whole new standard of shit meta-using.

[humaneatingmonkey]

wow so much defensiveness from calling you out on your unusual behavior. i read the whole game, rb. that's good for me. you even admit that it's how people see you. /r/quityourbullshit

[Almost50]

Keep those scum jokes coming, A50. If you flip scum, you'll be pissing your buddies off.

If anyone wants to know, I prefer MONKEY over HEM.

That's an IF, and I know it to be a false proposition. The problem though is if one of them flips Scum before I flip.

Btw, I was focused on asking you about the jz read I forgot to comment on the "everybody should claim VT bit".

You see, Scum will do it too, and then anyone claiming WILL be lynched anyway, so it's no different than you claiming whoever claimed Mason should be lynched. Once someone is lynched they will flip and we will know if they were Masons regardless, so the associatives point is moot.

The advantage of claiming Mason upon your lynch though is that the Masons will know if it's true or false, so anyone "faking" Mason should be lynched. It doesn't have to be on the spot though. Masons can sill unvote and pretend to be clueless and then fins a way to discredit the claim later on. The advantage they get here is to let a known Scum live longer for associatives with their fellow Scum.

In short, Masons should claim if put @L-1 and intent was stated. It doesn't matter if they get shot by then. because if they don't they will be lynched anyway.

Vts should claim VTs and it's up to everyone to evaluate the claim. They're likely to still get lynched too. but then everyone else was truly clueless about their alignment so no associatives there.

Scum will have to choose between claiming VT and still getting lynched or claiming Masons and confirming themselves to the true Masons.

We're back to the basics. "Town have no reason to lie" applies in this game more than usual.

[wavemode]

Catch-up later today

[rb]

wow so much defensiveness from calling you out on your unusual behavior. i read the whole game, rb. that's good for me. you even admit that it's how people see you. /r/quityourbullshit

uh, i admitted it's how people incorrectly see me, so much so i stopped playing altogether because i got that tired of justifying why im 'not being town rb' all the time, even when im actually town

theres nothing unusual about my behaviour, and if there is, feel free to quantify it instead of using one single game of meta. a single game you played with someone is not using meta, that's just using availability heuristic

[Gamma Emerald]

rb I remember you once saying you could play several town games but a single scum game would cause problems. Is that relevant?

[rb]

nope, i stopped playing altogether because i struggle to keep interest in any games

ironically i think i've lost interest in this one too. shoulda used an alt

[Hongzi]

@Hongzi, 2iam, jzhenson:

why are you voting me?

I made a scumread on you and voted my strongest scumread. Why do you keep insinuating that I have no rationale for my vote?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Hongzi, 2iam, jzhenson:

why are you voting me?

I made a scumread on you and voted my strongest scumread. Why do you keep insinuating that I have no rationale for my vote?

I'm not, it's just I think I know why everyone else did and I want to know your reason. And why isn't 2iam stronger?