Mini 1955: Perpetual MYLO III - Game Over!

[DiamondSentinel]

Hiya folks. I'm back from a long hiatus.

[DiamondSentinel]

Except none of you really know me, so I don't know why I'm saying I'm back.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, pagetop (sorry, I'll stop this)

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Brian Skies

There's a person I am familiar with.

[DiamondSentinel]

Can we not do useless gambits like this that lead us no where at all ty

This game is progressing at an alarmingly slow pace. And if everyone does nothing, then nothing is going to happen. Keep in mind that almost half of the people here are fine with that

perpetuating

. What do you propose instead?

Unvote. Vote: Maki Harukawa

Don't see any town intent behind your post.

Couple things:

1. Before I left (granted, this was a while ago, but still, I'm assuming it applies here), games always progressed very slowly. Last game I was involved with was a modded game and I sent out far more prods than I thought I'd need to. It appears to just be the state of the forum now.
2. For you to vote someone who called you out on a terrible idea shows that you're defensive. Any other game, and I'd vote you. But I don't feel like carelessly spreading a vote.

Anyways, a bit about what I've seen as the strategy/theory behind this setup.
First off, treat every person as if they were hated. If someone's at L-1, scum can QH and then sacrifice that member the next night. You can't use "If they QH, then we lynch them next" as a valid strategy.
Second, watch out for major distancing. That was a huge scumtell in both of the first two iterations; even more so than in most games. Not exactly sure why, but it's worth noting.
Finally, last thing. In the game that the scum won (first), there was a huge bussing factor. This goes along with the former point, but one of the most universally townread slots (Rena, if you read the game) bussed one of her teammates for at least half of each day she was a part of (replaced in), and the other member who survived the entire time (Thief) also bussed, many times following Rena.

[DiamondSentinel]

@Mod: Wicked mentioned it earlier, and I'm also curious. Are there any restrictions on self-votes?

[DiamondSentinel]

@Mod: Wicked mentioned it earlier, and I'm also curious. Are there any restrictions on self-votes?

Players can self-vote, but are cautioned to play to their win condition.

Naturally. Thanks for the clarification.

Alright, so there we have it. Town seems to be at a much larger disadvantage than I had originally anticipated.

[DiamondSentinel]

Brian Skies
acidphoenix
DiamondSentinel
Chara
kunkstar7

Why are you all good at mafia?

What do you mean? Is this you asking what I bring to the table or something? Because I've never claimed that I was good at mafia.

It's not much but having perused the last few iterations I was looking to see what Wickedestjr would bring up in regards to his opinion of the setup, and his post about it seems to match his modnotes on his run of the setup. It's an easy thing to do for both alignments but it's about keeping him honest in my opinion. I'd wait to see Wisdon's input but he doesn't have as much to compare to.

Any other game, and I'd vote you. But I don't feel like carelessly spreading a vote.

This is a curious sentiment to me, why is an early vote like this careless? Don't give me "the setup" as an excuse, it's 7 to lynch.

I'm always refined with when I place my vote, outside of RVS. It messing with vote analysis later on. And anyways, I think that he's lynchbait, ergo a poor player, more than scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

Couple things:

1. Before I left (granted, this was a while ago, but still, I'm assuming it applies here), games always progressed very slowly. Last game I was involved with was a modded game and I sent out far more prods than I thought I'd need to. It appears to just be the state of the forum now.

First of all, my experience has been different. I can't remember being part of a game that felt this tumbleweed-ish right after the game started; I found this very surprising (luckily it's picking up now). Secondly, even if you are right about this, I don't see why it matters. We have a deadline, so we should be trying to get out of RVS as soon as we can - doesn't matter what other games are doing.

2. For you to vote someone who called you out on a terrible idea shows that you're defensive. Any other game, and I'd vote you. But I don't feel like carelessly spreading a vote.

There is so much wrong with this.
*It's okay to be defensive if the 'attack' is scummy. (You kind of ignored my reason for voting her and just wrote it off as defensiveness)
*Not sure that defensiveness is a scum tell anyway. People should defend themselves.
*As long as nobody gets put at L-1 prematurely, then we're good. No need for so much caution.

@Mod: Wicked mentioned it earlier, and I'm also curious. Are there any restrictions on self-votes?

Players can self-vote, but are cautioned to play to their win condition.

Naturally. Thanks for the clarification.

Alright, so there we have it. Town seems to be at a much larger disadvantage than I had originally anticipated.

Why is town's inability to self-vote making this a greater disadvantage? Or is that a non-sequitur?

Oh, no no no. I wasn't saying that them being unable to self-vote was a liability. Rather, I was talking about scum being able to self-hammer. I had sort of anticipated that you couldn't self-vote as scum due to the whole "best two out of three" thing (for some reason, I associated it with cheating in this battle of wits).

As for your other parts, the first part I don't have much of a retort to. As you said, experiences differ. But the second, I'm saying you seem either scummy or just a subpar player. Prove me wrong, though.

PEdit: Gambit didn't lead us anywhere. The conversation about said gambit did.

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Brian Skies

There's a person I am familiar with.

Sorry, I don't think I know you.

We were in FakeGod's D&D together and we've been in a couple games....

cri

[DiamondSentinel]

Not_Mafia - who
Wisdom
Carcalilly - who
Maki Harukawa - town
Wickedestjr - town
Lycanfire - null
Brian Skies - null
acidphoenix - nulltown
UC Voyager - town
DiamondSentinel - town
Chara - town
kunkstar7 - scummy

#page3reads

Only 1 scum!read? Do you mind elaborating on why you read everyone how you do?

[DiamondSentinel]

Eh, can't argue with that.

[DiamondSentinel]

oh hell what is that post

wicked
diamond
maki

need two safeguard spots

You're saying words. I don't know what those words mean.

[DiamondSentinel]

You being the scumteam, correct?

[DiamondSentinel]

No no no, I meant you being the we in your statement, ergo the implication that you're on the scumteam.

[DiamondSentinel]

Unvote. Vote: DiamondSentinel

-Contradicted himself by saying I'm a poor player/lynchbait but also that he'd have voted me if this were a regular game.
-Don't like how he discredited my gambit or my vote for Maki.
-Ignoring my questions in 50-51.
-His exchange with acid phoenix on page 4 is just weird. Diamond, what are you trying to do there? Are you trying to say that you think acid is scum?

And I think his actions are suspicious regardless of Maki's alignment, but I could definitely see him and Maki being scum together.

1. I always vote lynchbait D1. D1 rarely gets a decent lynch anyways, so might as well thin the stupidity in the thread D1. I don't really feel like that's what we should do here, though. If you want me to vote you, I can do that.
2. I didn't discredit it, as there was no credit or merit due it in the first place.
3. What question?
4. Yes, acid is quite obviously scum. As for why I'm not voting him in the first place? Eh, good point.

VOTE: acid

[DiamondSentinel]

@mod do mafia have daychat?

I'm not judging the fact that you're blind, however, this does strike me as a bit off. Maybe forced to try and give yourself towncred?

I dunno. FOS: Maki

[DiamondSentinel]

-Contradicted himself by saying I'm a poor player/lynchbait but also that he'd have voted me if this were a regular game.

I always vote lynchbait D1. D1 rarely gets a decent lynch anyways, so might as well thin the stupidity in the thread D1. I don't really feel like that's what we should do here, though.

Oh good strategy. That's too bad that we can't do that in this game because my stupidity is just a huge liability in every game that I join.

If you want me to vote you, I can do that.

What the?

-Ignoring my questions in 50-51.

What question?

The ones in posts 50-51. With the question marks.

Yes, acid is quite obviously scum. As for why I'm not voting him in the first place? Eh, good point.

VOTE: acid

Huh. You think acid is quite obviously scum but you just forgot to mention that and neglected to vote for him until now? Why is he quite obviously scum?

I have said that acid is scummy before. As for why? I can't point it out. He's just scummy.

I'll look for this mysterious question that I somehow missed.

[DiamondSentinel]

50-51 isn't a question. It's a statement that my opinion doesn't make sense. Dear lord, use proper reason for once.

[DiamondSentinel]

I have said that acid is scummy before.

Really, where?

As for why? I can't point it out. He's just scummy.

That's helpful.

Hmm, didn't explicitly state it, but my palpable distaste for his "reasoning" was what I had intended as it.

[DiamondSentinel]

Gambit? I don't believe it for a second
Town that honestly believe you had figured out all scum? Sure, I'll buy that
Something else? Yes, I think that you are too loud for your own good and you're going to try to take charge of the game and drive it into the ground. So either you're scum and trying to take charge to ruin town, or you're town and going to lead us into the ground.

[DiamondSentinel]

Gambit? I don't believe it for a second

Well it

was

a gambit. Why is that hard to believe? If I honestly believed that I figured out all five scum then I probably would have revealed those names by now.

Town that honestly believe you had figured out all scum? Sure, I'll buy that

Yeah I don't believe you.

You don't believe me that I think you're being incompetent here?

Ever heard of "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity"? Doesn't apply perfectly, but this is the general thought.

Anyways, my belief here is more that you are just flat out wrong rather than scum.

PEdit: Of course, I'm not entirely sure, as last time I dismissed someone for being inept, it gave Dwlee a pretty easy win.

[DiamondSentinel]

@mod do mafia have daychat?

I'm not judging the fact that you're blind, however, this does strike me as a bit off. Maybe forced to try and give yourself towncred?

I dunno. FOS: Maki

I would like to hope you aren't serious in thinking I'd resort to that trick of all things to get towncred.

I know that I've played with you before, but I can't remember your playstyle, so I am not dismissing any possible tactics.

[DiamondSentinel]

WWE Mafia

[DiamondSentinel]

So first you say I made the post as a gambit. Now you're saying I did it for no reason. Which is it?

If you are town and you really thought that I was doing a gambit, then I still don't see why you felt the need to try shutting it down. There was absolutely no discussion happening at that point, so to say that my gambit was getting in the way of something or slowing down the game is just unreasonable.

You were doing a useless gambit for no reason it's not one of the 2 it's the same. As I already said it was very clear you were doing a useless gambit and normally if you did this on page 20/30 (as I already said) this would be fine but you're doing it on page 2 where people have 0-5 posts you don't know all the scum nor do any other townies it's just asking for random names at that point and doesn't help what so ever. That's why I shut it down.

At this point I can't tell if you are pretending to not understand what I'm saying or if you actually don't see what I was attempting there.

A gambit is... "a device, action, or opening remark, typically one entailing a degree of risk, that is calculated

to gain an advantage

."

So if you really think it was a gambit, then it doesn't make sense for you to also believe it had no purpose. How can you say "it was a useless gambit for no reason" ? The desired 'advantage' in this case was that it would cause serious discussion to begin.

Fwiw, it worked out very well the last time that I did it: discussion started and I correctly scum read 2 out of 3 scum shortly after doing it.

VOTE: Wicked

I don't need to tell you why my read on you has changed, do I?

[DiamondSentinel]

and yes, ds can do that as town - evidently you arent familiar with him and you think hes pushable lynchbait

I'm familiar with DS and, based on my experience, I believe that he would do suspicious-looking things as either alignment - that doesn't mean he should always be un-lynchable. He still draws scum 5/12 of the time and I've explained why I think he is here, so this is a lame way to undermine the wagon. His behavior surrounding his acid phoenix read is the scummiest thing that's happened in this thread and, even for someone with a play style like his, I can't see it being town.

How would you expect him to behave here as scum?

Familiar as in one game, in which I was a SK/3P?

Yeah, that's just flat out not-true. You haven't seen my town game, you haven't even seen my mafia game.

Next time you lie like that, at least make sure that it's not something that's checkable by a simple ISO

[DiamondSentinel]

and yes, ds can do that as town - evidently you arent familiar with him and you think hes pushable lynchbait

I'm familiar with DS and, based on my experience, I believe that he would do suspicious-looking things as either alignment - that doesn't mean he should always be un-lynchable. He still draws scum 5/12 of the time and I've explained why I think he is here, so this is a lame way to undermine the wagon. His behavior surrounding his acid phoenix read is the scummiest thing that's happened in this thread and, even for someone with a play style like his, I can't see it being town.

How would you expect him to behave here as scum?

Familiar as in one game, in which I was a SK/3P?

Yeah, that's just flat out not-true. You haven't seen my town game, you haven't even seen my mafia game.

Next time you lie like that, at least make sure that it's not something that's checkable by a simple ISO

Familiar as in this isn't my first game with you.

I never said that I had seen your town game or mafia game. So what am I lying about? Maybe read my post again.

1 game does not make you familiar, in the slightest, and you should know this. You're trying to gain credibility when you've no idea what you're talking about.

[DiamondSentinel]

oh look, walls i wont read

Yeah, you're not missing much. People arguing about a lot of stuff but not actually getting anywhere.

In other news, I'm gonna do a reread/ISO of the thread and try to give a full readlist by the end of the day, to try and stimulate some activity, but I'm a bit busy designing my own game. Also, school.

[DiamondSentinel]

Not_Mafia - Scum
Wisdom- Who knows
Carcalilly- Don't know who this is.
Maki Harukawa- Lots of words, not saying much
Wickedestjr- Scum
Lycanfire- Scum
Brian Skies- Scum
acidphoenix- Scum
UC Voyager-Scum
DiamondSentinel- Still not sure if tone is scum or not
Chara- meh
kunkstar7- Don't know who this is

Page 5

That's a hell of a lot of scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

Not_Mafia - Scum
Wisdom- Who knows
Carcalilly- Don't know who this is.
Maki Harukawa- Lots of words, not saying much
Wickedestjr- Scum
Lycanfire- Scum
Brian Skies- Scum
acidphoenix- Scum
UC Voyager-Scum
DiamondSentinel- Still not sure if tone is scum or not
Chara- meh
kunkstar7- Don't know who this is

Page 5

That's a hell of a lot of scum.

It’s not

Oh wait. I forgot this is like 5-7 scum to town. Yeah. I was thinking this had a normal scum size.

[DiamondSentinel]

Mulch, shut up already.

[DiamondSentinel]

My bad. A bit rude. Mulch, stop spamming. You had 4 posts in 2 minutes. And no content besides "bwuuuuu lynch Acid"

[DiamondSentinel]

He's being obnoxious for no reason, and reading his previous posts, he has a history of doing that. It would be nice for him to not do that. Shitposting doesn't help anything.

PEdit: Your continued spamming has ensured I will not, and makes me want to lynch you more.

[DiamondSentinel]

Mafia Role PM (5 players receive this role)

Welcome!

You are

Mafia

.

Your four partners are NAME A, NAME B, NAME C, and NAME D.

Each day you may vote for a player that you would like to lynch.

If a mafia-aligned player is lynched, then you and your team mates will choose a town-aligned player to lynch the following night.
If a town-aligned player is lynched, then you and your team will betray and night kill one of your own members.

During pregame and night phases

, you and your partners can discuss the game and who you want to night kill in this private thread (LINK).

You win if and only if three mislynches have occurred before three of your members have been lynched.

Please confirm your role by replying to this Role PM with your alignment.

Read the fucking setup Mulch.

[DiamondSentinel]

So basically you need rope.

First wicked, then you. Don't worry, you'll get your turn.

Just to make sure VOTE: Wicked

[DiamondSentinel]

Read the fucking setup Mulch.

Hey- woulden't I know this if I was scum?

So you think I'm town or scum?

You would also know this if you're town because it's in the god damn setup.

Therefore, it's super fake.

QED: You're scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

i think this "willingness to lynch" point doesn't amount to much. it's common practice to PoE or put scumleans or even null reads into a 'will lynch' pile.

Eh... I can't remember ever seeing a reads list like that before. See my 322.

why is Wisdom scum?

I talked about this yesterday, I believe.

It is in large part based on my read of Diamond, still. He has expressed an unusual amount of confidence in Diamond being town - so confident that that seems to be a big part of his vote for me - even though he couldn't give any reasons besides "looks like town Diamond". He also criticized my vote by trying to paint Diamond as low hanging fruit, but there are several big holes in that thought process. Also, based on my past experience with Wisdom, I don't think it makes sense for him to be scum-reading me this strongly for my Diamond vote.

So you're voting him because you think he can't possibly read me well despite the fact that you've played exactly 1 game with me, while he has played multiple.

Well, this is some class A shitty reasoning.

[DiamondSentinel]

It is in large part based on my read of Diamond, still. He has expressed an unusual amount of confidence in Diamond being town - so confident that that seems to be a big part of his vote for me - even though he couldn't give any reasons besides "looks like town Diamond". He also criticized my vote by trying to paint Diamond as low hanging fruit, but there are several big holes in that thought process. Also, based on my past experience with Wisdom, I don't think it makes sense for him to be scum-reading me this strongly for my Diamond vote.

This is crap, you have like two games with me and they were ages ago
Dont pretend you can read me

This is ridiculous Wisdom. I have a weak scum read on you and I'm the one who's pretending? How about you voting me on page 8 and saying "I've seen enough" ? You can't undermine your own experience with me and at the same time have so much confidence that I'm scum on page eight.

And you even tried using one of those games against me by referencing my gambit in a game from 'ages ago'.

You say those games were "ages ago" and not worth thinking about, yet you went out of your way to use one of them against me earlier!

Also this post reads as if you're considering my meta:

wicked is my weakest townread

could see this being scum wicked

And if so, you would have to be considering those games from 'ages ago'. Because you said you don't read games you're not in.

There's a difference between using a general feel from ages ago and using a specific action they take from ages ago.

[DiamondSentinel]

Read the fucking setup Mulch.

Hes just faking

Your scum

you're*

[DiamondSentinel]

RC isn't banned.

Anyways, good lord, 4 pages of exclusively shitposting from essentially 2 people. This is awful.

[DiamondSentinel]

RC isn't banned.

Anyways, good lord, 4 pages of exclusively shitposting from essentially 2 people. This is awful.

Sheep me on acid

I've told you no. Until I see a sizable following from the rest of the town besides you two idiots, I will never even consider it (unless I see something that just makes him completely obviously scum)

[DiamondSentinel]

asnkjsdnkjfbsdk

This post contains more content than the entirety of Mulch and Michael's ISO.

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright. I've tried ignoring it. I've tried dealing with it maturely. I've tried waiting through this entire day and talking to the mod about this, but this is fucking ridiculous.

I have permission from the mod to request to start a WotC movement to force-replace Mulch (and/or Michael). This has gone on for 4 days of exclusively shitposting and spamming. There was never much activity, but they are making this even worse. If you are in support of a WotC movement to force-replace them, then please reply to this message in the affirmative. If I'm the only one in support of this, then so be it, and I will likely replace out, as I can not stand to be in this game with them any longer. This has only gotten worse and worse.

[DiamondSentinel]

Okay never mind I reread Diamond's post, but you did this to yourself Mulch

fferyllt is not to blame for this whatsoever. If Mulch has a problem, they can take it up with me.

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, let's be done talking about this sort of stuff and get back to the game at hand.

Looking at those hideous game exchanges, I'm tempted to put Not_Mafia as null!town, although I'm curious how they managed to keep up motivation to post that entire time.

[DiamondSentinel]

@mod do mafia have daychat?

This looks like a townslip?

I townread Maki for other reasons, but that really doesn't look like a townslip, considering the rules explicitely state that they do not have daychat (check the Mafia's rolecards).

[DiamondSentinel]

@mod: If there is a NL (first time only), do we still go through with the full night phase, even though mafia can't kill? Or is it essentially "There was no lynch D1, and now it's D2"?

[DiamondSentinel]

@Voimi, not to rush you, but you've been in for almost a day now. You got a read done and some reads?

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm townreading acid, diamond and wisdom both lean scum for me individually

Why? Why? and Why?

Just a feeling, i didn't really go into it, mostly diamond felt awkward and wisdom feels scummy while acid is pointing diamond out and he feels towny while people are saying he's scummy without any real reason, almost like they're trying to strongarm a mislynch

Not_Mafia - who
Wisdom
Carcalilly - who
Maki Harukawa - town
Wickedestjr - town
Lycanfire - null
Brian Skies - null
acidphoenix - nulltown
UC Voyager - town
DiamondSentinel - town
Chara - town
kunkstar7 - scummy

#page3reads

Only 1 scum!read? Do you mind elaborating on why you read everyone how you do?

gut

Eh, can't argue with that.

hmmm, was going through DS's ISO to verify, but i found this.

There isn't really any analysis of play here though, diamond asks wisdom a surface level question, wisdom gives a surface level answer, diamond drops it

Why should I care whether a read is gut or not? If someone says "Oh, it's a gut read" either it's a gut read or they're lying, and you won't get anything from them either way.

[DiamondSentinel]

Why should I care whether a read is gut or not? If someone says "Oh, it's a gut read" either it's a gut read or they're lying, and you won't get anything from them either way.

Huh?

Im fairly sure i've been asked often about where my gut reads from, but it seems like you didnt care.

Almost all of my reads are gut. I don't understand whatever shitty "logic" the meta propagates, so I just go with what fits the most at the time. If I can't explain my reads, then why should I expect anyone else to?

[DiamondSentinel]

Almost all of my reads are gut. I don't understand whatever shitty "logic" the meta propagates, so I just go with what fits the most at the time. If I can't explain my reads, then why should I expect anyone else to?

Ok then, what is your gut currently telling you?

My gut is currently telling me that I'm annoyed at your (collectively) perpetual questioning (not to mention the circlejerk of people joining together and refusing to even contemplate the possibility of each other being scum. You DR people have done it pretty well so far, and Mulch and Michael did it too). Of course you can find something scummy when you question someone incessantly.

[DiamondSentinel]

Here's where I'm at

Wick not sure? hated him scumhunting off his wagon. really disagree with some of his lines of attack on kunk.

acid crazy enough to be town? reaction tests are really shit though i'd have shouted him down if i was here and been scumread for it.

Wis idfk, i really really want to hear a solid damn reason for his endless DS defense. I know he's lynchbait but that doesn't mean this can't be the time he's scum.

diamond scum

lycan fucking insane. think his absurdly in depth reading into rqs could be scum trying to look too ridiculous to be scum

brian scum, who replaced this?

kunk scum for 154 hasn't improved since

chara is a little town for tonal reasons and needlessly defending her own semantics

kaede seems town, but i'm still bothered by her predecessor.

Ah, yes. Another person hiding behind shitty reasoning and an alt/hydra. Just what we need on this community some more.

I'm gonna say all of those reads except maybe Chara's is bullshit. Wisdom is obviously town, so to say "Oh, I can't read him" is you just being lazy or scum. Latter is my guess.

Let me check who you replaced in for, because if they were also on my scumlist, I'm parking my vote firmly on you.

[DiamondSentinel]

Hmm, UC Voyager. A solid null. Well, until wicked gets back here to get grilled some more, it'll stay there, but you're up soon.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ah, yes. Another person hiding behind shitty reasoning and an alt/hydra.

lol?

How/why is wisdom "obviously town"

I can read wisdom like a book. I've been in 4 games with him and have never been wrong, even for a second (and even when we were on competing scumteams).

[DiamondSentinel]

Another person hiding behind shitty reasoning and an alt/hydra.

Well I know this isnt directed at me, but seriously, stop it, im trying to read you, but all i get is complaints about the alts and stuff.

Yeah... I can't exactly help it this game. It's the epitome of everything that I left the site for the first time around.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also these:

Wisdom is obviously town, so to say "Oh, I can't read him" is you just being lazy or scum.

I can read wisdom like a book. I've been in 4 games with him and have never been wrong, even for a second (and even when we were on competing scumteams).

Kinda dont fit.

You're using the fact that you can read Wisdom as an excuse to scumread shuichi for not being able to read him.

Correction: I'm using the fact that he has possibly one legitimate read to scumread him.

[DiamondSentinel]

Hello there. Miu died and Viomi was scum. Well, that happened.

I'm gonna have to ISO miu to see if there's even anything worth pulling from their death. tbh, I can't even remember who they are, and I ISO'd myself, and the word miu never shows up once in it. Well shit.

Anyways, it'll take me a sec to gather my thoughts and all. Can't remember much of what happened last gameday.

PEdit: So would I, Maki. So would I.

[DiamondSentinel]

Someone engage with me. I hate lurking, but I can't find anything I care to comment on right now.

I could try to give another read list, see if that'll fix things. But as it is, my head is hurting too much trying to remember what happened yesterday and so my reads are skewed.

As it is, Chara's sitting at town, Wisdom's at town, Shuichi's at null!scum, wicked still scum, and blondie and Maki are sitting at solid nulls.

[DiamondSentinel]

kaede constant 'game doesn't make sense' is shitcommentary

chara+kaede+shuichi drawing attention to the nk is bad. diamond's was bad, but diamond isn't trying to get the town to guess why.

Someone engage with me. I hate lurking, but I can't find anything I care to comment on right now.

I could try to give another read list, see if that'll fix things. But as it is, my head is hurting too much trying to remember what happened yesterday and so my reads are skewed.

As it is, Chara's sitting at town, Wisdom's at town, Shuichi's at null!scum, wicked still scum, and blondie and Maki are sitting at solid nulls.

get rid of your nulls

do you really have nothing to talk about? i could vomit a lot of viewpoints atm, but i'm not sure what would be noise and what would communicate the direction i want to move in. if you have nothing on the table, should you have the same concern?

for instance (and everybody at home can play this game too) which of these posts seem genuine to you?

@mod do mafia have daychat?

This looks like a townslip?

And to address everyone suspecting kunkstar today, explain to me why he casts the L-1 vote for viomi with Dunn visibly wavering unless he's also scum with wicked in which case vote there first.

This is a good point.
But then, why is he going after wicked still?
Like idgi, let's assume for a momment that wicked's gonna flip scum, why does kunstar still go after Wicked today if they are both scum.

Actually it doesnt make sense for kunkstar scum to do that either... ugh im just second guessing myself again
UNVOTE:

Hi maki, want to talk about reads? Consider than an invitation, because I want to talk about your reads and mine with you. Who should we lynch from your perspective? Why do you suspect kunk?

Acids interactions with me make me town and I was one of the first ones to want them lynched I don't think you can call me scum here.
Do people think Wicked is scum? Why feeling fine on my Shuichi sr now

Christ why don't you all just lynch me already, if this isn't obvtown I have no fucking idea what is.

I shouldn't let that post be the straw that breaks it because diamond is just scum but this is getting old. I've been nothing but an asset to this town.

Uhh, I thought lurking Maki was town Maki? or did I get that wrong. Well she will probably say I shouldn't use meta to read her anyway.
But, what If you're scum trying to get a point?.
Although Sushi i can probably trust.

I really don't have much to talk about. Usually I've got a lot to say in my games and I'm one of the most active posters, but this one I'm just.... not.

Anyways, as for the genuine posts:

612: I can't tell if it's genuine or not. It's terrible reasoning, but that's not indicative.
1098: Irks me a bit. I want to believe it's genuine (mostly for that third line), but the rest of it leads me to believe it's not.
1086: Seems genuine enough. I just need more content from Dunnstral.
1100: I don't care if this is genuine or not, I hate people saying "omg im so town"
1130: I would love to make Shuichi eat rope for this post alone. I'm torn between Wicked and Shuichi. Personally, I want a Shuichi lynch more than anything, but I see Wicked as the more likely wagon.
1138: I don't like that post. Doesn't say much, non-committal, etc. As it is, I'm tempted to say it's not genuine.

[DiamondSentinel]

ds. wheres your vote.

My vote will be on wicked or shuichi. Put one to L-1 and I'll hammer.

Preferably shuichi.

[DiamondSentinel]

ds. wheres your vote.

My vote will be on wicked or shuichi. Put one to L-1 and I'll hammer.

Preferably shuichi.

Then do it. Why are you so afraid of voting me?

I'm not. I just don't feel like voting Willy nilly.

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, as for the genuine posts:

612: I can't tell if it's genuine or not. It's terrible reasoning, but that's not indicative.
1098: Irks me a bit. I want to believe it's genuine (mostly for that third line), but the rest of it leads me to believe it's not.
1086: Seems genuine enough. I just need more content from Dunnstral.
1100: I don't care if this is genuine or not, I hate people saying "omg im so town"
1130: I would love to make Shuichi eat rope for this post alone. I'm torn between Wicked and Shuichi. Personally, I want a Shuichi lynch more than anything, but I see Wicked as the more likely wagon.
1138: I don't like that post. Doesn't say much, non-committal, etc. As it is, I'm tempted to say it's not genuine.

Main thing that irks me about your conclusions is my perception that you analyzed them in a vaccuum. I thought they all had a pretty clear theme, even if they all read like shit. Basically, there's no reason to towntell Maki for something that was braindead, no reason to townread her for failing to provide content, while Maki shouldn't be convincing us that she's town at this stage- she can start by not looking like scum, not making a scumpost, or helping find scum rather than waste the energy on whatever that post was supposed to be.

I purposely omitted Dunnstral's previous post to Maki, failing to take a hard stance and assert yourself on it is weak.

Shuichi does something similar to Maki, but he's in the midst of a slapfight, so it doesn't come off nearly as forced.

I doesn't matter how they read. I'm not reading for content or strictly scumhunting from here.

Genuinity of a post

can

be read in a vacuum. Quite well, really. And that's what I'm reading.

[DiamondSentinel]

Hi, got a prod, been busy this weekend. I have yet to see anything other than Wicked trying a last ditch effort to lynch me.

Yay

[DiamondSentinel]

That was a fast hammer yesterday.

Anyways, curious that they'd kill Wisdom. Anyone want to ISO dive for me? It's late, and I could do it tomorrow, but if someone else is willing to do it, then that'd be great.

[DiamondSentinel]

VOTE: Dunnstral
apologies for the quick hammer yesterday.

why is Wisdom an odd kill, Diamond?

He was far more passive than he is most games. He wasn't driving the town hardly at all. Not by half. I would have expected Kaede.

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, Chara, hit me with your Dunnstral read. Why are they scum? I can't remember them doing anything they did.

[DiamondSentinel]

really? i guess i don't have experience with town Wisdom. he seemed the obvious choice. Kaede was town but unsure of herself while Wisdom appeared to have a lock on half the game. Shuichi was my other expectation.

pedit: i'm exceedingly confident in Dunnstral scum because there's really no reason i have to call them town. Maki's position is bad but her explanations and feelings could come from a towny place. kunkstar is scummy but his interactions are sort've weird with both Viomi and Wicked to be teamed. still working on that.

you're leftovers, but Wisdom-approved. Dunnstral has nothing.

Alright. Yeah, I'm at a solid null on Dunnstral. Much more confident with a kunkstar lynch here. They haven't done anything town-like, and yet have multiple scummy interactions. I, particularly, think that their general tone with Wicked definitely points to scum there. I'll ISO dive a bit later to show you what I mean in particular, but give me a sec for that. In class right now.

VOTE: Kunkstar

Got 2 mislynches, might as well use them.

PEdit: Looking at Kunkstar as my strongest SR right now. Shuichi might be scum, which explains why he wasn't killed even though he's trying to drive town (he's a null!scum), Lycan I'm none too impressed with.

And that's my best guess for the scumteam.

The other 2 who are anywhere in the realm of possibility for scum would be Miu and Maki. You and Kaede are by far my strongest TRs.

[DiamondSentinel]

Basically, my path of attack is Kunkstar, Lycan, and then Shuichi.

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm not nearly as confident in my reads as Wisdom was, though, so if anyone can give me good information, go ahead and throw it here. In any other game, none of my scumreads would be scum. Null!scum at best.

Edit: Oh wait. Miu is long dead. No, I actually didn't. I didn't remember Miu die at all, but that explains why I don't remember anything they said... They didn't say anything yesterday.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ah, I forgot Dunnstral, which is who we were debating. Yeah, he's in the realm of possible scuminess.

[DiamondSentinel]

Your OMGUS is transparently proscum, Shuichi.

[DiamondSentinel]

Please feel free to offer a solitary reason for suspecting me. You have yet to do so.

Anyway, thanks for reinforcing my feelings that kunkstar is town. I have to hope you're scum, because those reads are game-losingly bad otherwise.

My biggest reason is your constant push to discredit Wisdom, in addition to your history of horribly fake readlists. I'll provide quotes from your ISO in a bit.

[DiamondSentinel]

Here's where I'm at

Wick not sure? hated him scumhunting off his wagon. really disagree with some of his lines of attack on kunk.

acid crazy enough to be town? reaction tests are really shit though i'd have shouted him down if i was here and been scumread for it.

Wis idfk, i really really want to hear a solid damn reason for his endless DS defense. I know he's lynchbait but that doesn't mean this can't be the time he's scum.

diamond scum

lycan fucking insane. think his absurdly in depth reading into rqs could be scum trying to look too ridiculous to be scum

brian scum, who replaced this?

kunk scum for 154 hasn't improved since

chara is a little town for tonal reasons and needlessly defending her own semantics

kaede seems town, but i'm still bothered by her predecessor.

I already hit on this before, but this readlist is fake as fuck.

Wickedestjr (5): Wisdom, Lycanfire, DiamondSentinel, Miu Iruma, Viomi

This is literally my best guess at the scum team, sans possibly kunkstar.

Town: Kaede
Townish: Maki, Wicked
Requiring further detective work: Chara, Dunnstral, Wisdom, Lycan
Scummish: Diamond, kunkstar
Scum: Miu, Viomi

Oh look, another shitty readlist that makes no sense whatsoever. For starters, there is no possible way that anyone could read null on Wisdom. Especially with the amount of discredit you give him, between the "he can't be thinking", and "he could be scum" posts.

Except for Wisdom, Lycanfire, DiamondSentinel, Viomi and me right Pooichi?

Meh, someone being the culprit never stopped him from saying things like that.

I'm sure you all have your reasons for doing bad things.

DiamondSentinel Chara Wickedestjr
Kaede Akamatsu
Lycanfire Dunnstral
Shuichi Saihara
kunkstar7 Wisdom

Where I'm at atm.

Your reads are ridiculous.

What are yours?

It's hard to want to answer this knowing you apparently intend on being anti-me regardless of my answer, but whatever

Town: Kaede
Townish: Chara, Lycan
Null: kunkstar, Wisdom, Dunnstral
Scummish: Wicked, Diamond

Not currently attending this read list: Maki

Although: why does wicked scum leave wisdom and me alive?

Wisdom could totally be scum. There's only one thing he could do that would make me feel confident in a read on him, and it has not happened.

This is volume 1 in a series of 500 wishy washy comments about Wisdom. He's town, he's scum, he's null, why does scum leave him alive? Backpedalling like a mofo.

[DiamondSentinel]

Everything about your interactions with Wisdom and his recent night kill points to exactly one conclusion.

Wisdom found enough of your scumbuddies that you deemed him a liability and attempted to remove him via discredit, and when that didn't work, a night kill.

[DiamondSentinel]

Everything about your interactions with Wisdom and his recent night kill points to exactly one conclusion.

Wisdom found enough of your scumbuddies that you deemed him a liability and attempted to remove him via discredit, and when that didn't work, a night kill.

If you think Wisdom found my scumbuddies, why do you suspect kunkstar over his actual suspects, Chara and Maki?

If you think Wisdom found my scumbuddies, why do you suspect kunkstar over his actual suspects, Chara and Maki?

i'd like to know this too. and also why Diamond is townreading me.

You've said it yourself, Chara. We only need 1 lynch to win. He had wicked pinned from the start. Anyways, I just gave it as a possible contribution. I can't see inside your mind, Shuichi. I don't know why you killed him. Frame people? I dunno.

The point is that every interaction with Wisdom points to you as scum.

I was the primary driver of the Viomi lynch.

I called out Viomi and Wicked's interaction as S/S.

I had about 5000 opportunities to vote Wisdom yesterday.

What are you on?

Bussing, it was fairly obvious, and voting him wouldn't have done anything yesterday since nobody really SR him.

You were scared that if you were aggressive on him, his read would flip and he'd vote you.

[DiamondSentinel]

answer my question, Diamond?
you didn't answer Shuichi's 1383. why aren't you following Wisdom's actual scumreads if your narrative is that he was killed because he has Shuichi's team down?

Sorry. My point with saying "I can't see inside your head" is that I don't necessarily strictly believe Wisdom's reads. I presented the whole "you were scared of him pegging you" at Shuichi to say "I don't know why scum killed him, considering I don't trust his reads". I do know that there was a reason however.

[DiamondSentinel]

i'm here, but i haven't made my mind up on the Maki/Dunn situation.
Diamond still needs to answer why i'm town, though. and the other questions. i'm happy to vote there too.

How many times do I have to say "Don't ask me why I read someone how I do"? Every fucking game it happens, and every game the answer to this question is "It's a gut town read. I trust my gut far more than any faulty logic that others may try to use"

[DiamondSentinel]

and why are you voting kunkstar, and have your scumlist the way it is, when Wisdom was not scumreading kunkstar, or Lycan, or Shuichi?
your theory that Shuichi killed Wisdom because he found the scumteam makes no sense at all when you look at your actual reads, and Wisdoms reads. if you think your reads are right, then Wisdom was nowhere near the scumteam.

My theories are exactly that. Theories. I'm providing possible reasoning to support a hypothesis. If you remember correctly, that wasn't hardly the first or only theory I gave for why Shuichi is scum. Every interaction he's had was him discrediting Wisdom, being wishy-washy with them, etc.

With that being said...

do you trust your gut more than your

own

faulty logic, too? ;>

I don't use faulty logic. I use my gut and then see if I can find logic to support it. If I can, then I give it. If I can't, then I ignore it and go with my gut. Gut rules all.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, why does it seem like there's so few ppl doing stuff today.

Because they aren't. I'm not doing stuff today because I don't see anything worth doing right now.

Ceci n'est pas un prod dodge

[DiamondSentinel]

Dear lord, this Maki fiasco is awful. I'm starting to wonder if scum's trying to get town apathy to rise so that they can control the wagons.

'Cause I'm feeling the apathy right now.

Purely because of this fiasco, I am 100% fine with a Maki lynch today. Absolutely horrific.

[DiamondSentinel]

Maki's constant TR is making me extremely uneasy. It reminds what Shinobi did in Antihero v. Fakegod, trying to get me to townread them by townreading me a whole bunch...

I'm going to wait until we get another VC before doing anything, though. I don't want to prematurely hammer.

[DiamondSentinel]

Where did I ever say you should tr me because I tr you? I don't really care if you think I'm towno r scum Dimond I just tr you that's all if you think I'm scum explain it I'll disprove it and leave it at that.

You don't have to say it.

Shinobi never said "I think you're town so you should think I'm town" and yet it still happened.

[DiamondSentinel]

Wouldn't this require me to know your meta or you just having extreme paranoia and nothing to do with me? LOL

Both. I already am suspicious of you, and this just further adds to suspicion.

Maki's constant TR is making me extremely uneasy. It reminds what Shinobi did in Antihero v. Fakegod, trying to get me to townread them by townreading me a whole bunch...

I'm going to wait until we get another VC before doing anything, though. I don't want to prematurely hammer.

Makes no sense. She has explained this read thoroughly.

I do not want anyone to hammer anything just yet. There is more to be gained from this day.

You're missing the point here. The point isn't that the read makes no sense. It's that the read exists from someone so vehemently townreading me, yet appears suspicious.

Anyways, it doesn't particularly matter. My read hasn't changed. And I don't care to end the day yet either. In fact, I'm trying to make sure I don't end it early.

[DiamondSentinel]

It SOUNDS like you're saying you suspect Maki because she is townreading you hard and you already suspect her, which seems like circular logic at best?

I wonder how this exchange will affect some of the things Lycan has been thinking.

I already suspect her, and I suspect her more because of this. It's not fucking difficult to understand.

[DiamondSentinel]

I already suspect her, and I suspect her more because of this. It's not fucking difficult to understand.

so

now

do you understand why i'm suspicious of your TR on me?

I mean, sure. I'm just not good at explaining my reads in general, so they just tend to be gut.

[DiamondSentinel]

Lycan has a point. The only confusing part is why we were able to get 2 points so easily, and really effortlessly.

I mean, I know Wicked was super obviously scum and all (and I can't speak to Viomi as I can't remember what people lynched them for), but it does feel like it's been too easy.

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright. Sorry everyone. I'll be a bit

V/LA until Sunday Evening/Monday

. Again, sorry, but I'm back home for the time.

Anyways Chara, I saw you mention me earlier. Do you have some questions for me in particular? I see you're putting FOS on Kaede. Maybe you'd care to discuss that?

PEdit: Indeed. Stimulating conversation. Can't say I see much from the Kaede SR, but I could use some enlightenment in general now.

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways Chara, I saw you mention me earlier. Do you have some questions for me in particular? I see you're putting FOS on Kaede. Maybe you'd care to discuss that?

i don't remember what i would have said, really. i don't really understand you from either side.
oh, right, it was because you're voting kunkstar and i'd rather you were voting someone who has a chance to get lynched. i'm in the process of casing Kaede. even if i hate that word. it is what it is, though.

Right now kunkstar's a placeholder vote. For now, I only really care to be a hammering vote, since my main SRs aren't exactly on the chopping block right now.

Maki's ISO is full of both good and bad posts. Thus the null read on her.

[DiamondSentinel]

You're gonna have to think this through on your own coz i've pretty much given up on life.

Oh FFS that's not a healthy attitude. Don't let something like this get to you.

Just go with what you actually believe in rather than sheep someone who you don't 100% trust. I hate it when people throw up their hands and say "Bwuuuuuuu this sucks ima sheep".

[DiamondSentinel]

I've been trying to understand everyone's stances on each other and I keep coming with big question marks '?'.

There's also DS hardcore lurking and Maki TRing him for ?
There's kunk kinda active lurking for ?
There's Dunn kinda active lurking for ?
There's Shuichi taking a day off...

Like I mean, what are you guys doing, hoping scum rains out of the air?, Hoping a big red lantern from the mod says "X IS SCUM?", like this feels similar to my home site where people just go and "No im just waiting for scum to scumslip" and do nothing the entire day phase and it's annoying me.

I'm not hardcore lurking. I told you, I'm V/LA over the holiday.

Jesus fucking Christ. The first time I've ever gone V/LA on-site and someone accuses me of lurking.

[DiamondSentinel]

Again, terribly sorry I've been inactive today, but I've been with family so it's hard to be on much.

Looking at recent interactions, Shuichi looks like scum desperately trying to save his teammate(s). I can't exactly figure out who'd they be, but I don't like his increasingly desperate tone.
Maki and Kaede could both conceivably be scum. Not exactly sure, but they're both on that fringe of null!scum.
I'd appreciate Dunnstral stop lurking. But I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
Kunk needs to eat rope for lurking so much. 39 posts over 3 days is unacceptable in any conditions.
Lycan's a null. I just can't remember most of what they said.
Chara's still rockin that hard-town here. Absolutely towning it up.

[DiamondSentinel]

Looking at recent interactions, Shuichi looks like scum desperately trying to save his teammate(s). I can't exactly figure out who'd they be, but I don't like his increasingly desperate tone.
Maki and Kaede could both conceivably be scum. Not exactly sure, but they're both on that fringe of null!scum.
I'd appreciate Dunnstral stop lurking. But I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
Kunk needs to eat rope for lurking so much. 39 posts over 3 days is unacceptable in any conditions.
Lycan's a null. I just can't remember most of what they said.
Chara's still rockin that hard-town here. Absolutely towning it up.

So let's summarize your reads list:
{Chara}
{Lycan, Dunn}
{Me, Shuchi, Maki, Kunk}

Any combination of those 4 as a scumteam of 3 means Town!Dunn = dead.

Try again.

Town-Chara
Null-Lycan, Dunn
Null!scum-You, Maki
Scum-Shuichi, Kunk

Given there are 3 scum, it's entirely possible.

I'd appreciate Dunnstral stop lurking. But I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
Kunk needs to eat rope for lurking so much. 39 posts over 3 days is unacceptable in any conditions.

How is my lurking worse than Dunn's? Specifically why do I need to be lynched versus Dunn who you just ask to "post more"? Is there something wrong in my posts? You can't just coast on quantity here, 39 is plenty enough to have actual content to call out.

You have half of the posts as Dunnstral. So there's why it's worse than Dunn.

[DiamondSentinel]

Scum-Shuichi, Kunk

You're aware I'm currently voting him, are you not?

FOr someone who's been so rock hard for a scumread on me the whole game you sure haven't ever explained it or voted me.

Because I'm on Kunk right now. And I fully recognize that you're on him right now.

I've come to the realization that typically, I have a third of the scum in my scumlist, a third of the scum in my townlist, and then the last third is mixed. Every gave has pointed to that being the case.
PEdit: I have also actually contributed to the conversations enough for people to have reads on me.

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean it's not like im asking you to do rocket science here, I know you value gut over logic, but your gut is clearly contradicting the day flow.

I'm not saying all of my scumreads are scum. I'm saying that these are the people I see being anti-town/scummy, thank you very much.

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean it's not like im asking you to do rocket science here, I know you value gut over logic, but your gut is clearly contradicting the day flow.

I'm not saying all of my scumreads are scum. I'm saying that these are the people I see being anti-town/scummy, thank you very much.

And im saying, that you're wrong on at least 1 if not 2 of your reads because it contradicts the day flow.

I recognize that

[DiamondSentinel]

I recognize that

Ok so... what are you gonna do about it?

Nothing I haven't already done. it's like science. I have taken data points in the past, gathered experimental error from them, and now have error bars on the numbers for my scumreads. It's super simple.

PEdit: I have also actually contributed to the conversations enough for people to have reads on me.

And? What, there's

nothing

for you to comment on in my posts? Apparently there's only a little to go through, can't be that hard.

Not right now. I'm busy. But I can check later to see if you are indeed as townie as you so claim (which I very much doubt).

PEdit: It's coincidence, Kaede. I've been inactive because family, but I'm eating dinner right now, so I have some time to talk.

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright folks, just under 4 days left. We should probably start coalescing onto a single wagon. I'm in favor of the kunkstar wagon, personally.

[DiamondSentinel]

Chara who is the third because I'm seeing some complications with scum kunkstar

it's either Dunn, Diamond, or Shuichi. there are problems with all of them.
if kunkstar is scum and Maki is town, though, you're scum.
but i find that unlikely.

both diamond and shuichi have hard pressed kunkstar. diamond peaced out for the entire tour de force, came back and gave his blessings on kunkstar. shuichi has pressed forward in face of all logic. meanwhile, dunnstral and maki are crossvoting.

Hi there. That's me. Anyways, I told you guys, I was gonna be mostly MIA until today. I'll be back some more, but school's ramping up right before finals. But I should be more active now than I was last week.

[DiamondSentinel]

Maki has solved the game and the all-town wagon succeeds no reason for her not to vote here, right?

Yeah, there wasn't.

I don't know why we got a sudden stream of unvotes. It looks to me like we had it right.

Wholeheartedly agree. Curious why both Kaede and Maki were super hesitant to vote kunkstar. The more and more I see, the more and more this doesn't quite add up. My null!scummies are doing more scummy things than my scumreads right now (Well, more than you, Shuichi. Kunkstar continues to be a scumfuck)....

PEdit: Hate is too strong a word for someone you just don't like, Shuichi.

[DiamondSentinel]

but, no. it still doesn't work. if kunk is town, Maki can't be scum. they have to be the same alignment, scum or town. because scum Maki hammers then sacrifices herself.
kunk could be scum with Maki town, but Maki can't be scum with kunk town.

I want to point out that quickhammering guarantees that the quickhammerer will be the sacrifice. So this line of logic can't be relied upon. They could be scum that didn't want to be sacrificed that night. Or they just wanted to leave their sacrifice open to conversation.

I've run through all of the theory/strategery on this game multiple times in my head and you just run into a whole load of WIFOM issues.

[DiamondSentinel]

this sort of play doesn't suit me at all, does it.
Shuichi: you're not in my mislynch pool. the only way i'd consider lynching you is if a bunch of flips presented me with a situation where you had to be scum. if you're not scum it just won't happen like that, so it's fine. i also would rather be proven right regarding my townread of you.

2110: you're... probably right.

i'm caught between kunkstar and Maki both being scum, and kunkstar being scum while Maki is town who insists on posting in such a way that i think she's scum having a laugh. or town having a laugh because she knows we're wrong about her. kunkstar being town while Maki is scum is... a strange situation. despite what Diamond says in 2110, even though i said it sounded right.
i'd just like a flip. can we even flip kunkstar?

Dunnstral: are you actually suggesting i'm scum with kunkstar? haha.
why is only Maki an acceptable lynch? there are three scum.

I'm not saying it's not strange. I just believe that, the way their interactions are going, it seems like the most likely case.

[DiamondSentinel]

Eww, I see wagon analysis.

Stop sucking at mafia. We know there's at least 1 on the wagon. Great. That means there's at least 1 scum in 5 people, and another scum in the rest of the 6.

THAT DOESNT GIVE US ANYTHING. Everyone still has a good chance of being scum.

With that, let's take a look at my current reads. Chara still sits at fairly town. She's gone down a slight notch, but whatever.

I also agree with Maki that Lycan looks fishy AF. My vote will put them at L-2, though, and at less than 12 hours into the day, that is not something I particularly care to have.

[DiamondSentinel]

Maki's going up on the towniness scale a little bit.
Kaede's looking null!scum.
Shuichi's moved up from scum to null/null!scum. I'll apprehensively trust him.

[DiamondSentinel]

So that leaves, in order...

Chara>>>Maki>Shuichi~Kaede>Lycan

[DiamondSentinel]

Maki's going up on the towniness scale a little bit.
Kaede's looking null!scum.
Shuichi's moved up from scum to null/null!scum. I'll apprehensively trust him.

explain your change on Shuichi, please.

Just so you know I've acknowledged this, I'll give you the short, before heading to lunch. I'll post quotes later.

Basically, every part of what he said yesterday seemed genuine. I know scum can seem genuine, but more often than not, it is a very common thing for town to sound like. It's part of my gut read, yes, but it's easier to put this into words. I'll post some examples in a bit.

[DiamondSentinel]

Spoiler: Shuichi Posts

Who do you think is scum chara

If kunk is scum we have to assume scum won't vote him now

I ask because I didn't think maki dunn was a possible pair but we currently have neither of their votes and you're asserting lycan is town.

I literally laid the framework out for Shuichi and asked him if he was sure re: day 1 wagon. He denied continually, but I knew he wanted Kunkstar too. I pointed out to him he was going to say something dumb. That's not chess, that's basic math. Three scum at the tail end of the wagon with his theory, yet he wants to make it seem like the collapse of the D1 Kunkstar wagon was nothing to be worried about.

As I've said repeatedly, I did not understand your point. I find your posts difficult to follow. You often assume I still know what you're talking about when I've long since forgotten.

Now that I understand the words you are saying, I still think you are nuts.

The only reason I'll even consider ever voting Chara is that she's suddenly bumped me into the mislynch pool after her earlier posts.

As she's pointed out her tone all game couldn't have been more town.

I don't know why we got a sudden stream of unvotes. It looks to me like we had it right.

So where are your reads?, if we did have it right it means that everyone that was voting kunk + maki are town.
Sorry, it's just that we were discussing the possibility of Lycan town meaning scum Kunk never getting lynched then Maki comes in with the hammer threat and paranoia took the best out of me.

I guess I don't get why you'd be paranoid about her not hammering.

It's not possible to say whether she was the missing town vote or not voting her buddy.

My reads remain as they were: makidunn/diamond/kunkstar. However I acknowledge they are clearly wrong given diamond's vote placement and am open to alternatives. lycan scum is more appealing tome than you or chara, so I can accept it since that's kind of what it looks like is happening.

I know this may seem like a haphazard collection of posts, but each of these posts reads transparently, and looks genuine.

[DiamondSentinel]

Mm. I feel like it's somewhat reasonable to think vio and Wicked might have bussed a visibly weak partner, and he's always been clearly a weak player.

Oh? And why exactly do you think I'm weak at this game?

[DiamondSentinel]

Hmm, apparently I'm being prodded. Activity itself has hit the shitter though, so I still don't seen anything worth commenting on.

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright, super sorry here. I sorta kinda completely forgot about this. I've been absolutely busy with all of my projects and tests at the end of the semester and all. Anyways, I'll try to respond to everyone's questions and be a bit more active for the rest of the game. This is my "Shit, I fucked up, and now I've got to catch up"

[DiamondSentinel]

You think scum decides to SR me when everyone else is TRing me?

i don't pretend to know Diamond's scumplay, but having scumreads that won't get lynched can be just another smokescreen
he isn't voting you. why not?

Because she's not my top scumread right now. She's null!scum. Lycan is my top lynch, and I would vastly prefer that lynch to happen.

i don't pretend to know Diamond's scumplay

Me neither, but depending on who his hypothetical partner might be I have doubts that he'd just lay down and die, I mean if he's scum Dunn was his partner and i dont recall him doing anyhting to save him (tho I dont remember)

P-Edit: Didn't he flip his read on Shuichi?

Not completely. Shuichi went from scum to null!scum.

that Diamond hasn't done anything despite the votes on him is a good point. he could believe he's safe because even with Shuichi, myself, and Maki (who would likely join the wagon if it came to it), Diamond still isn't in danger of being lynched without your support.
or he's town and doesn't care. if it's that one he needs to care. or he's scum and feels lazy? i think the apathy could come from either alignment. maybe more from town but perhaps Diamond feels like he's lost.

also for several reasons i need to outline in my head for a second, i think the only way Shuichi is scum here is with Lycan.

I explained this. I'm super busy right now with the end of the semester. I'm trying to be more active, but I just remembered about this while writing my essay for English. I'm doing like a 5 minute catchup, max.

[DiamondSentinel]

I explained this. I'm super busy right now with the end of the semester. I'm trying to be more active, but I just remembered about this while writing my essay for English. I'm doing like a 5 minute catchup, max.

i actually meant it was a good point for you to be town, but considering your absence is based in rl i'm treating it as NAI.

is there a reason you haven't voted Lycan, Diamond?

Eh, none in particular. Although right now I'm waiting to see who else jumps on the wagon. I might hammer. Probably will. But I want to see who jumps on the wagon before I place my vote.

It's all in who else is voting for that wagon at this point, yo?

[DiamondSentinel]

Let's try and prod this game along with some activity from everyone.

VOTE: Lycanfire

This is L-1.

[DiamondSentinel]

Kinda running out of steam, but I'm hoping to post a whole thing at once for dramatic effect.

This is why I pushed for L-1. The game is slowing down dangerously.

[DiamondSentinel]

why no interaction with Kaede's posts, then?

Kaede has posted? Where?

[DiamondSentinel]

Hello. Finals are a bitch. Will catch up later. I saw some questions earlier that I will attempt to address later on tonight.

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright. I'm done with finals, finally. Ask me your questions, because digging through looking for every question someone has on me is not my idea of a fun day.

Also, can we get the hammer on Lycan, please? Don't let this scumfuck get away. He's super fucking obviously scum right now, and yet you guys are on my wagon because, reasons? The best I can find is that I was a probably bus.

[DiamondSentinel]

Diamond if you're somehow town could you just. do your best and be active instead of reactive.

I'm working on it, but right now, there's a massive lack of anything that I can particularly work with. Lycan's scummy, needs to go. Everyone except you is scummy in some capacity, so it's just varying levels. But luckily, we just need 1 scum lynch and to me, that's obviously Lycan. So let's lynch him and go home. Do I need to waste my time ISO diving again?

[DiamondSentinel]

HOW IS THERE A LACK OF CONTENT DIAMOND

Because I'm reading everything that's being said and it's you guys essentially slinging mud at each other (with the exception of Shuichi's massive text wall) and there's absolutely nothing going on to change my opinion of literally anyone.

[DiamondSentinel]

there just isn't any way Lycan is scum here. :< Shuichi isn't scum. he's just. bleeding town all over the place.

And what about that last "Lynch Diamond for information" piece? That bleeds scum all over the place with Lycan. I'm picking up Shuichi/Lycan vibes. If you do what Shuichi says and lynch me, you let Lycan get away. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy

[DiamondSentinel]

there just isn't any way Lycan is scum here. :< Shuichi isn't scum. he's just. bleeding town all over the place.

And what about that last "Lynch Diamond for information" piece? That bleeds scum all over the place with Lycan. I'm picking up Shuichi/Lycan vibes. If you do what Shuichi says and lynch me, you let Lycan get away. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy

In the very same post you claim to have read I volunteered to die on a Lycan scum flip.

Of course this is the one thing in the thread that's easy to attack lol.

And it's one of the most common scum tactics. "Lynch me if I get what I want but end up 'wrong'." It never happens, and you know that. That's why you volunteered to do it.

Let's put it this way. It's even more of a scumclaim in this game. If/when I die and flip as town, that gives scum (you) another point. Then, we go into the final day. You volunteering to be autolynched if you're wrong means that you are guaranteed to lose unless you can talk your way out of getting lynched. So either you're doing something to shoot town in the foot, or you're doing something in the hopes that you can wriggle your way out of it.

Obvious scummove.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ah, kaede was Sakura? Figures.

Anyways, I've got a lot of ranting to do. First off, half of our teammates were butt-fuck awful. Starting off D1 trying to bus someone who didn't want to be bussed (nor saw any reason to be) is never a good plan. Wicked's behavior pissed me off royally, because he just came out bussing without a lick of communication in the scumchat.

Dunnstral was basically screaming "Hey lynch me I'm scum", and so I had to play it one day at a time without concern for my future condition (thus a lot of issues D3 onward).

I don't even remember what Viomi did at all, which is never a good thing...

And Kaede, you did the one thing I said you needed to

not

do, and that was get overly emotional. I should have just stood up in the scumchat and said I was going to make it to LyLo, but I was very sick and tired of having to run the scumteam. I had to strongarm in our chat the N2 kill and the D3-4 lynches in order for us to even have a smidgen of a chance...

That being said, I'm rather impressed that we were able to make it as far as we did.

[DiamondSentinel]

I won't apologize for what I said to those two. They spent ~50 pages of complete and utter bullshit and I refuse to apologize for calling them out on it.

[DiamondSentinel]

Carpe diem is

not

a productive way to play mafia, particularly as scum

[DiamondSentinel]

It's all about strategy, Kaede, and sticking to it. And not losing your cool. Any time you lose your composure, you're going to lose. I lost my composure in the last night phase, and you lost it today. We had a decent plan, we just needed to stick to it.

[DiamondSentinel]

As irritated as I was at my scumteam, however, that was a very fun setup. It gave us a very well-defined goal, and it made it very easy to come up with a strategy and steps along the way.

[DiamondSentinel]

Kaede, don’t worry. If people ISO you in this game, you weren’t exactly playing that townlike. You were just the least scummy of about 15 other people.

I had to deliberately avoid ISOing you because there were more than a couple posts that were near-slips or just screamed scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

Mulch was so transparently anti-town that his partner petitioned the mod to force replace him.

I would have petitioned him get force replaced no matter my alignment or his. His behavior was fucking despicable, even more so if he was using it as a scum tactic.

[DiamondSentinel]

I think this setup is scumsided. Mulch had a good idea (cause complications in the game state) but he tried too hard to provide solutions at the same time. I take issue at his strategy because it had a clear purpose of saving Wicked (which he did) but ultimately failed any resolution (if anything, I was more sure in my Wicked scumread as a result of Acid/Viomi flipping.)

If something like this was carried put from page one, scum could crush by simply having so many members and too many problems, with too few town tasked to see it through.

I would play a game like this again.

The reason this game is so scum-sided is because they have a very clear direction in the game, and enough members to strongarm their plan into action.

I mean, do we need more evidence than that it ended up only 3-2 after such a shitty first 2 days, and one of the last three being blatantly scum?

[DiamondSentinel]

Of course, there is the issue that to remove strong town members, you require a scum sacrifice, and giving town a point. Which might balance out the game somewhat.

Honestly, this is my favorite open setup I've ever played, and I feel like, if it were played more often, the games would only get more exciting, which would be awesome. It's been a long time since I felt so determined as I did N2.

[DiamondSentinel]

I really do think you need to punish town for no lynching. Otherwise a town down 2-0 or 2-1 can drag game out indefinitely, or force LYLO if scum kill... and both are obnoxious to scum team.

They can't do it indefinitely. Scum are obligated to kill the second time onward and can't the first time.

Their point was that they could force LyLo to try and "get more information".

Especially in this game where most everyone was on the chopping block in the latter half of the game, an additional town member killed wouldn't have harmed town that much, and to get the final lynch, every town member needed to be in accord anyways, so having 2 people agree is easier than 3.

[DiamondSentinel]

Dunno the game felt way more townsided than scumsided to me.
But I replaced in the middle of day 1 so what do I know.

Doesnt feel like the town needs any extra help to make it LyLo without issue.

In this iteration of the game, I think the various decisions to powerbus on day 1/2 really hurt scum. But, I think scum not bussing at all would also highlight the team to some extent. There's a middle path somewhere in all this.

When Nacho and I hydra'd in the second game, Nacho hoped we'd draw scum because he thought the setup was quite winnable and would be a lot of fun.

I was soooooo relieved we drew town.

I'm not sure it was a decision so much that Brian decided to sheep wicked completely.