Mini Normal 1976 - The Firsts - Night 2[End Jan 8]

[Apple Jack]

Sup

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: Derpy Hooves no random vote obvious signs of guilt. Also hello!

That’s the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Apple Jack]

Flagged what?

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: psycho

[Apple Jack]

I've only played once as scum ftr so points off for misinformation here.

Oops. If true psycho is confirmed scum

[Apple Jack]

I’m always down for lynching liars. Cause only in rare circumstances should town lie. Lie is a scum claim

[Apple Jack]

This is a straight up lie but I can't talk about it because of site rules.....

Smh. Mod kill this scum.

You can’t reference ongoing games at all. Saying he’s scum in an ongoing is a blatant violation

[Apple Jack]

The open game has been over less than 24 hours.*shrug*

Oh well that explains it

[Apple Jack]

I don't see anything

Cause there is nothing.

He’s scum grasping

[Apple Jack]

How a player entered a game is non AI all the time

[Apple Jack]

Here's the pattern I'm seeing:
Scum: Bold tag vote, short random excuse.
Town: Either hello post or tag for a reason other than RVS.

If you're really buying a flimsy excuse as "I didn't see the game close" and going to lynch the person who caught TIAM in a blatant lie, then I have no words for you.

I don’t see that as a blatant lie though cause the game just ended.

Your similarities aren’t similar at all

[Apple Jack]

Sky Paladin probably town though

Based off what exactly?

[Apple Jack]

I like. (slight townlean)
Monkey
Psycho
RB
and maybe Sky?

this is a horrible list of town reads. rb and sky have don't nothing to determine alignment either way. anyone who has either of them above dead null needs to explain.

psycho is confirmed sucm.

[Apple Jack]

That's l2 I think. For pretty much no good reason. I am a vt.

[Apple Jack]

psycho is confirmed sucm.

Why?? You're filled with a lot of conviction for someone who shouldn't know much about negative alignments.

I have a better question? why aren't you actually reading the game?

I have explained why he is confirmed scum. He lied and backtracked. 2 things town don't do.

[Apple Jack]

I also don't know why Jodaxq is scum because her post is somewhat townie.

I think it was the fact that he asked why he was scummy or something which is a stupid reason to vote somebody

[Apple Jack]

I have explained why he is confirmed scum. He lied and backtracked. 2 things town don't do.

disregard this. wrong game.

[Apple Jack]

If you put someone at L2 without good reasoning you are going to be criticized.

[Apple Jack]

psycho isn't confirmed scum, but he is still really scummy. I honestly don't see how anyone can give him a town read.

[Apple Jack]

Meta diving and then defending his argument is scummy?

Yes. Using meta is garbage in general. His conclusions were wrong and didn’t really make sense plus people enter rvs different each game. Changing your entrance isn’t AI.

So he’s basically grasping at something to use which is very scummy

[Apple Jack]

Sky Paladin probably town though

Based off what exactly?

I think presuming innocence in grey-areas is unlikely to come from scum, bc that would create a lot of work backtracking later

will see how sky develops but its townlean rn

It wouldn’t really though cause that’s the beauty of mafia. You can change your mind when new evidence is presented. What he said could come from either alignment.

[Apple Jack]

As town, can you see that your first reaction to this post is to metadive the fuck out of it? Note that he didn't even vote it at first, only when he was under pressure and forced to do something with it. I'm not seeing that as organic town process.

I agree with this.

[Apple Jack]

But it makes no sense to meta dive him based on his entry. I just don’t understand why you as town would do that. I could see why you as scum would.

[Apple Jack]

^ directed at psycho obviously

[Apple Jack]

He said "truly random." I don't like that he felt the need to point out it really is random, feels like over-justification and sent up flags

But to the point of meta diving? Just doesn’t seem like the logical progression

[Apple Jack]

I’m not piggybacking your arguments.

[Apple Jack]

If anything you piggybacked off my question and went from there

[Apple Jack]

That’s not a town slip

[Apple Jack]

That’s too much work. We have similar reads but that doesn’t mean I piggybacked yours.

[Apple Jack]

Maybe but what other reads do you have anyway?

Right now psycho is my only scum read. But it’s still early.

[Apple Jack]

Also, I guarantee that it won't be too much work because you will literally have nothing to put except your bad push that "belongs to another game." Now, I feel like that's good ass lying. I think you didn't have an organic excuse to backtrack and you just used that excuse.

What are you talking about here?

[Apple Jack]

I don’t really care if you believe me or not but it is true. It’s also something you could verify yourself but for some reason you don’t want to.

You don’t have to actually mention anything but you can read and then apologize and I’ll know you are at least a man of honor.

[Apple Jack]

The only thing you’ve benefited from is posting before me. I was already questioning psycho before you came in and copied my question. I already saw suspicious activity but you just beat me to it.

So like I said if anything you piggybacked and are now using time stamps like that matters.

[Apple Jack]

I’ll expect an apology in the next 5 minutes or you are confirmed scum

[Apple Jack]

It takes less than 5 minutes to verify I made an honest mistake

[Apple Jack]

I haven’t done anything scummy.

VOTE: human

Man of no honor is scum.

[Apple Jack]

I’ll expect an apology in the next 5 minutes or you are confirmed scum

You had your chance. I’m in 2 games total. I don’t even care if I’m punished at this point. I’ve almost gotten myself modkilled in the past to defend my honor.

Nobody questions my integrity and gets away with it.

[Apple Jack]

You only get once shot to lynch me. Make it count.

[Apple Jack]

I was scum hunting psycho. You were the one who got weirded out when somebody else voted him. Then you backed off and then for some reason doubled down. I don’t think you really want him lynched the more I think of it.

The fact you went to discredit me for having the same read as you, when I was the one who originally started questioning him.

Then you take my honest mistake and use it against me knowing I can’t talk about it and if i do, I get modkilled

I gave you an easy way out. All you had to do was do a little research on your own and apologize.

This body of work is scum.

I’ll claim now. 1 shot vig. Lynch me today or you get a bullet tonight.

[Apple Jack]

Your shallow threats don’t worry me scum boy.

[Apple Jack]

All this nonsense because you couldn’t apologize. If you were town you’d do that.

[Apple Jack]

I’m making sure town lynches scum. After my shot I’m just a vt and whatever happens to me after that won’t matter.

[Apple Jack]

Im fine with them wasting a kill on me. I’m not wrong about monkey though. Too much manipulation for him to be town.

[Apple Jack]

Yes. Replacing out of a scum slot doesn’t change anything

[Apple Jack]

I'm not scum tho so you're just ruining this game for everyone. Congrats dickless.

You lied about me. Was given the chance to apologize and refused.

If you are indeed town only one who ruined it was you. I don’t lie about insignificant shit.

[Apple Jack]

And the personal insult is uncalled for. Keep my penis out of this game.

[Apple Jack]

No one wants to play with you so quit mafia forever TY

Yeah that’s great for my depression.

mod I can play with this player anymore. Please replace one of us

[Apple Jack]

If you are depressed dont play mafia, get help.

Not letting my depression stop me from having fun. I’ve gotten help. It’s a constant struggle for me and gets worse around holidays.

Doesn’t change the fact that monkey is scum.

[Apple Jack]

Got some irl issues to deal with atm. Be active tomorrow. I’m glad mulch replaced in. I’ll still get some enjoyment

[Apple Jack]

What’s done is done bro. There is no turning back.

P.edit - your slot is scum. Confirmed. Sorry.

[Apple Jack]

If we lynch mulch I can’t shoot him. Then depending on flip(most likely scum) I can shoot. If he’s town obviously I won’t shoot. But if my confirmed to me scumread is alive going into tonight regardless who we lynch, it’s going to probably take more restraint than I have to not shoot him.

Let’s lynch mulch. I’ll die tonight and everything is right in the world.

[Apple Jack]

Using meta is garbage in general.

Wrong, it's how you get accurate readss

Derpy plz

It’s ridiculously easy to mirror town meta as scum. So you rely on meta and lose the game.

[Apple Jack]

so when are we lynching jodaxq?

Well nobody has given good reasons for it. Yourself included. We’re probably lynching mulch today. So not really sure when but probably not today.

[Apple Jack]

What I can see is a reckless vig who is going to shoot someone come what may - if we lynch town by accident today, then Derpy shoots mulch and scum kill someone else we risk losing 3 town by the time day 2 starts, so purely for damage limitation

So earlier posts it seemed like you may scum read monkey or were suspicious of him. Now you act like he’s town and we’re doomed if I kill him and want to lynch me to protect him and the rest of town.

That’s kind of a big 180. What changed?

[Apple Jack]

Jesus you are scum also aren’t you? There is literally no way your recent posts should be coming from town. You basically want to lynch me so mafia can shoot somebody else.

[Apple Jack]

not really there were 2 points I was really making
-1. I wanted to point out your awful awful play at being vig
-2. I wanted to point out you’ve made your case on HEM/Mulch and it isn’t very compelling so bring more to the table or get out of your awful tunnel vision

I disagree on both parts. There is really no wrong way to play a one shot vig. If anything now mulch knows his contributions matter more. If I’m blocked we’ll that’s probably a bonus to town especially if we mislynch somebody.

I also save myself lots of time and energy because I don’t have to convince anyone.

This still doesn’t address the issue that I’m expected to believe you are town who wants to lynch town. No. You voting me is essentially a scum claim or you are playing against your win condition

[Apple Jack]

I don’t have to convince anyone. That said I’ve given plenty of reasons for monkey and mulch hasn’t done anything townie yet.

[Apple Jack]

See how can I town read somebody who says rb is very townie and rb has done jack shit to earn even a slight town read?

Ugh this is going to be the longest shortest game I’ve ever played.

[Apple Jack]

But jodaq’s question wasn’t a bad one let alone ai so being suspicious of that is either scum push or shitty play

[Apple Jack]

Not caring about being scum read isn’t AI either. I never care if I’m scum read when I’m scum.

[Apple Jack]

I mean I hate using meta so I’m not letting it cloud my judgement but this isn’t rb’s town game. Not based on my personal experience anyway.

Right now rb is null. He’s attacking low hanging fruit and hasn’t provided anything useful

[Apple Jack]

Not caring about being scum read isn’t AI either. I never care if I’m scum read when I’m scum.

Then your bad at scum lol

Except I usually win as scum. I get town read as scum by manipulating people who believe in stupid things like “not being afraid of being scumread”

[Apple Jack]

But jodaq’s question wasn’t a bad one let alone ai so being suspicious of that is either scum push or shitty play

Which question


Also derpy I'm kind of not in the mood to argue with you. I'm willing to let you lynch me today/shoot me in the night if you promise to take responsbility for your actions post-game and try to improve your game in the future

I don’t want to argue either. If I’m wrong on your slot though that isn’t my fault. Your predecessor did intentionally scummy things that I can’t see coming from town. He questioned my integrity and didn’t apologize and he crossed the line with personal insults. There is no way I can ever ignore that. There is no way anyone can convince me that came from town because I honestly don’t see how it could.

Right now you aren’t really doing any better relying on meta (which is always a bad idea) and agreeing with bad pushes. (Rb’s bad push on jodaq).

[Apple Jack]

He knows arguing with me is pointless but did it anyway. I also find his reads questionable.

[Apple Jack]

I’m not bullying you though. You replaced into a slot I already scummread. You haven’t posted anything that points to you being town. You have very questionable reads on top of that.

Regardless of your alignment stop trying to convince me by talking to me and try convincing me by scum hunting and have reads that make sense. I’ll tell you right now jodax hasn’t done anything that says scum and rb hasn’t done anything that says town. Your explanations for how you got these reads don’t even sound legitimate.

If you don’t like my opinions that’s fine but don’t go whine about it.

[Apple Jack]

Oh and you town lean psycho

[Apple Jack]

Speaking of psycho. He’s vanished into the background

[Apple Jack]

I hate people who live in the past. You are only as good as your current game.

You’ve had some very shitty games. So have I.

I’ve had some very great games...

[Apple Jack]

Not accomplished anything? Lmao

Why is that funny? its completely true imo.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy Hooves- Pretty sure town
Sky_Paladin- Possible scum
TwoInAMillion- Null, needs to improve gameplay
acryon- Don't even know who this is
Hawk- Possible scum
BuJaber- Scummy
profii- I think town but needs to improve gameplay
Mulch replaced humaneatingmonkey- Town
PsykoSavant- Townlean
Jodaxq- Scummy
rb- Very towny

Anyway I'm pretty horrible at getting people to sheep me because I don't do cases but i think Jodax and BuJaber have a high chance of hitting scum

Lets ignore you made a list read to begin with because those are pointless filler. But it’s a pretty useless list read with absolutely no real explanation for any of your reads. Scum have to say as few words so they can keep options open. If you were town there’d be some actual reasons for your reads and they would make sense.(they don’t btw)

Secondly, Wanting people lynched but you have refused to give reasons for them. You make a lame excuse for why you can’t give reasons.

To play this game you not only need to find scum, but tell people why they are scum. I did that for your slot. I did that for psycho.

You have also argued with me, admitted you basically know it’s pointless, and then claim you being bullied. That’s in a nutshell you not doing anything.

Your entire iso is useless and if you are town, you will have left behind nothing to help the rest of us.

The only thing I have to figure out is why are you buddying rb

[Apple Jack]

Sorry I don’t believe you.

[Apple Jack]

Town have to do certain things to play properly. These things aren’t things I should have to ask for. They should be done naturally.

Town has to be transparent as fuck and you aren’t. Town should be actively scum hunting and explain their reads with detail. And you aren’t.

They shouldn’t have to say “well you didn’t ask me”. But you did.

I have high standards for town. I don’t lower them for anything. Maybe that’s why people hate me so much. I sometimes scum read shitty townies. I can’t really help that.

Play like you should and you don’t get scum read.

[Apple Jack]

Sorry I don’t believe you.

Shoot me baby

And then when the game is endgame you can apologize to me and the entire town for shooting the cop

The only apology I have is the one in my sig.

[Apple Jack]

I have high standards for town. I don’t lower them for anything.

I am trying not to be rude but you make it increasingly difficult each time you post.

I know no one else has posted yet, but I'd honestly be surprised if we get a counter claim.

Which means, you've jumped in with a vig shot and found the cop on day 1. I know you said there is no set way or no bad way to play the vig but actually you could not be more wrong. This game is the definition of doing the vig wrong.

No. I’ve found scum fake claiming cop. If he were town he’d be scum hunting and explaining his reads. He isn’t. So he’s scum or the worst townie I’ve ever seen. He has bragged already how awesome of a player he is so clearly such an awesome player wouldn’t play this poorly.

I honestly can’t see how you expect anyone to think you are town either because yet again you seem more interested in lynching a town pr over scum.

Mulch has done absolutely nothing of value this game. He’s done no scum hunting and he’s sheeped and buddied rb. He didn’t give reasons for his scum read, he made excuses for why he didn’t, then he played dumb when I called him out for it. Instead of explaining his scum and doing some scum hunting he starts arguing with me again which he has already admitted is pointless and then he rage claims.

How is any of this town?

As a player you have to ask yourself does his play fit his claim. I say Absolutely not. His play makes zero sense as town. The manipulation his predecessor did made zero sense as town.

If you think he’s legit. Show me some good scum hunting he’s done. Show me where he’s tried to convince people to vote joda and provided reasons for why joda is scum.

I’ll be waiting forever. Because they don’t exist.

[Apple Jack]

I think you're both town.

What has he done that looks town?

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: profi

[Apple Jack]

You reckon we'd have a town-vig without a town cop? Everything is possible but I'd be very skeptical of this in a normal game.

I literally just found 4 examples after reading your post. One of those was a game mulch modded.

So yes it’s completely plausible for there to be a vig with no cop.

And if he’s scum, claiming cop isn’t that risky. Especially even night which means he wouldn’t be able to produce a result until day 3.

[Apple Jack]

Also we need to lynch profi. They aren’t town.

[Apple Jack]

We lynch derpy
We have a doc that saves Mulch
The mafia either get no kill because they went for Mulch or they also gamble we have a doc and we lose another player
But we get a cop read tomorrow

Btw this scenario is wrong cause if mulch is alive he won’t have a result tomorrow.

Just looked through profi’s iso and I see nothing to suggest he’s town. He also failed to deliver on his reasons for BuJaber which he said he’d post.

What’s up with people not explaining themselves? That’s a key part of the game and something every townie should do.

[Apple Jack]

But if mulch is true and survives he won’t have a result tomorrow because he is even night. No result until day 3. We have to put up with his fake claim until then? And then what?

As scum he’s played this perfectly if he can somehow convince me not to shoot him. And that’s what he has to do. Until he plays the games to my standards he’s still in trouble.

Mulch needs to make a detailed case for joda. I want the see if his scum read is justified

[Apple Jack]

The jist of it is he is using odd logic (imo) eg not acknowledging that there is a benefit to killing you, especially given you seem determined to kill the now claimed cop.

There is no benefit to killing me. You trying to push that agenda just confirms you are scum. There is no way you can be town and think it’s a good idea to lynch town.

[Apple Jack]

Let’s ignore the claim completely.

Does his play look town? If yes. Explain (everyone should do this)

If no. What’s the right call? Leave him alive til day 3? Lynch him? I kill him?

If he is town he needs to play to my standards. He needs to post his reasons for all his scum reads.

[Apple Jack]

I’ve done enough to show you how your reasoning is wrong.

You have literally done nothing this game except make noise. You should be forthcoming with your reasons. Not hiding them waiting to be asked. You know I want them but refuse because I won’t actually ask you? Bullshit.

You are scum confirmed.

[Apple Jack]

Playing dumb doesn’t do you favors.

[Apple Jack]

If he is town he needs to play to my standards. He needs to post his reasons for all his scum reads.

Don’t act like you didn’t see this.

[Apple Jack]

We’re lynching mulch or I’m shooting him. I can’t see any scenario where a town player would purposely hide his reasons. Not try to convince others to listen to him by giving reasons, when being asked for them to still not give them (I have basically said more than once I want explanations of his scum reads) and on top of that plays dumb acting like he has no idea what I want.

[Apple Jack]

I don’t recall seeing a single reason for any of them.

[Apple Jack]

He needs to post his reasons for

all

his scum reads.

[Apple Jack]

I’m done. I’ll see y’all day 2 if I’m alive.

[Apple Jack]

I’m shooting him. I’m voting to lynch profi. I’m not wasting anytime on scum playing dumb.

I’ve got nothing else to add and any future interactions will probably end bad.

[Apple Jack]

Also for the record I can quote physically the posts where I explained all of my scum reads .

I already said that I don’t recall seeing them. So why haven’t you done
This already to show me? I’ve read your iso like 5 times looking for your reasons for joda and never saw them.

[Apple Jack]

Agreeing with somebody’s scum read isn’t a reason. Saying something is scummy (when it isn’t actually) without explaining what’s scummy about it (nothing is) isn’t a reason. Disliking a vote isn’t a reason either.

I would never suggest anyone cast a serious vote for such a weak bunch of reasons. Nothing you’ve pointed to is AI.

Town you should absolutely know that.

So you still look like scum to me.

[Apple Jack]

if disagreeing with a vote isn’t a reason to scumrrad someone what the fuck IS

Lots of things but Disagreeing with somebody is never a good reason to scum read somebody. If I wasn’t so lazy I’d bet I can find multiple examples where you disagreed with somebody who was town.

[Apple Jack]

Profi doesn’t want to find scum. He’s basically scum claimed.

[Apple Jack]

So clearly the alternative to lynching Pr claims is not lynching anyone...

Lynching your scum reads isn’t an option for you for some reason.

[Apple Jack]

What if I think one of you and Mulch are likely scum but I’m fairly confident we won’t get a majority vote on either

There is probably 2 other scum.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy - if we lynch Mulch today, who do you shoot?
Presumably if you don’t shoot and don’t get killed, do you think you’d get lynched tomorrow? I’d be really tempted as it currently stands

You or psycho probably

No I don’t think I’ll get lynched if I survive the night but I guess it’s possible.

[Apple Jack]

Someone help me out because I’m new on this site. Will the vig and mafia kills be announced as “player X was shot” ie we won’t actually know which kill was the scum or vig

didn't he claim day vig? I could be mistaken. A day vig would obviously be posted seperately while a night vig you wouldn't be made aware of which was which, although some mods may make hints with the day flip flavor.

No didn’t claim day vig

[Apple Jack]

I never claimed to be a great player. People remind me all the time how much I suck at it.

If we aren’t lynching mulch. We should lynch psycho or profli.

[Apple Jack]

If true, Derpy should have been force replaced here.

Incorrect. The site rules about discussing ongoing games don’t specifically mention this type of scenario. Mod handled it the way he though appropriate and now it’s a non issue.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy I'm getting pretty strong townvibes from but I wish you wouldn't tunnel so hard and focus on other players even if they've said less,

Im not focusing on mulch only. I’m currently voting profli. I see nothing townie from him. I’d also support a psycho lynch. That’s 3 people that I’m willing to lynch.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy I'm getting pretty strong townvibes from but I wish you wouldn't tunnel so hard and focus on other players even if they've said less,

Im not focusing on mulch only. I’m currently voting profli. I see nothing townie from him. I’d also support a psycho lynch. That’s 3 people that I’m willing to lynch.

It just feels like you've only talked about Mulch most of the game. I know you haven't entirely funneled. A little more on your Psycho read and your read on Profil would be nice.

I don’t know how much more I can add to either than what I’ve already added.

Profli doesn’t want to find and lynch scum. He’s rather vote a town Pr or no lynch.

Psycho I was suspicious of from way back. He’s drifted into the background since mulch and I have fought.

[Apple Jack]

If nobody wants me to shoot mulch, I won’t shoot mulch. But I require people show me what he’s done that is protown.

[Apple Jack]

If you believe Mulch is telling the truth

Do you believe him? If yes. Show me what he’s done to play like town

[Apple Jack]

maybe some townreads from Derpy

I typically don’t out town reads and I’ve explained my scum reads. I really want to shoot mulch but if people can show me things he’s done that’s protown I’ll reconsider.

If people want to lynch me to protect him, that’s cool also but when he flips scum I want people to apologize to me.

[Apple Jack]

He could change his mind.

This.

If we lynch town smart play is not to shoot anyone anyway.

[Apple Jack]

Being wrong is not AI.

According to mulch is it...

[Apple Jack]

I’ll just ignore mulch from now on. I think town will appreciate that.

I’ve got to get back to painting but anyone who town reads mulch, please tell me why he’s town that doesn’t include his cop claim.

I’ve already showed he’s refused to explain his scum reads and he’s played dumb intentionally.

[Apple Jack]

Being wrong is not AI.

According to mulch is it...

How the fuck can you say being wrong isn’t alignment indicative

Because unless somebody is cheating, nobody has perfect reads ever. I don’t know a single person who’s never been part of a mislynch. Never incorrectly read somebody as scum.

You’ve been wrong as town. So that right there should tell you that being wrong isn’t AI.

And now I’m done talking to mulch.

[Apple Jack]

Where is my vote right now? Keep up

Yeah you are voting somebody now AFTER I called you out for it. Saving face imo.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy do you think Profil hasn't been trying to dig up scum? What are your thoughts on Bujaber, and RB? You said you could do Psycho are you still feeling 2IAM is town?

No I don’t think he has.
Buja I don’t really have a read on him. He doesn’t worry me so much as others so I can worry about him later.
Rb is useless. If I used meta I’d say he’s scum based on that but since I don’t he’s just null
2iam I could see being scum but don’t like the people who are pushing him so for that he gets a pass from me.

[Apple Jack]

DH - You can't ignore the claim when deciding if someone is scum or not.

Yes you can actually. Scum fake claim all the time. You have to ignore the claim and look at their play aka scumhunt.

If he didn’t claim. Would you look at him at town or scum?

Why would a claim change that? I’ve seen day one fake claims before. I’m always going to judge a player by their play first and that’s how everyone should play.

Even with the claim. He’s not done anything useful. His scum reads don’t make sense. They lack good reasons and he’s defending himself with meta and wifom which should never be done by town.

[Apple Jack]

Sadly sky’s posts are wasted cause I don’t have the attention span to read that. I really wish people wouldn’t walk post.

[Apple Jack]

I’ll read all of it when I get to a computer. I did read your first line about 333 and yeah that sums me up to a t.

That should go in my sig when this game is over.

[Apple Jack]

Because the claim itself can be analyzed for indications of alignment:

Does the claim itself make sense? If not, are there counterclaims, do they make sense?
What benefit can scum gain from such a claim? Are those likely given the game state?
What motivated the claim? Is that likely to come from scum or town?
If the claim is true, how would scum react to it? If it's scum faking, how would his buddies react to it?

Questions like these are important. Town claim truthfully, so they don't have to think about the claim itself apart from 'is this the right time to expose my role?', scum fabricate it so they usually invent a game plan and come up with reasons to backup the claim.

It's day 1. We have had no nights yet. Scum would have to take a gamble that the fake claim wouldn't be countered. Does it make sense for mulch to do so when he did?

I can't answer all those questions confidently, but my conclusion is that it makes more sense to me as a legit claim.

No it doesn’t make sense because of the manner in which it happened as others have mentioned. A CC day 1 isn’t going to happen because nobody CCs day 1.

Scum benefits by hoping to live longer and maybe have people actually believe him. Plus self preservation. Not to mention hoping somebody is stupid enough to CC and hopefully drawing a protective role off somebody else.

Fear motivated the claim. To me it’s less likely to come from town because a town Pr would handle it different and he’s not playing like town.

[Apple Jack]

you do make some interesting points about bujaber. definitely gives me some food for thought.

[Apple Jack]

making poor/empty cases for when they vote

Well that’s exactly what mulch is doing.

[Apple Jack]

Mulch - almost certainly town but the player is sapping my will to live.

This read doesn’t match what you just explained to me about finding scum. Mulch is guilty of many of the things you just explained. Yet here you are town reading him.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy got upset that HEM called him a liar.

I don’t lie unless I absolutely have to and almost never as town. When somebody questions my integrity and is given the option to correct the mistake and apologize and refuses to, that pisses me off and I treat it like a scum claim because town shouldn’t have to lie. I don’t see why a player (town player especially) wouldn’t want to admit his mistake and apologize.

Yeah I went off the deep end a little but that’s par for the course for me. But what I said about no wrong way to play a 1 shot vig. I still believe that. Typically scum aren’t worried about Vigs because historically they shoot wrong more often than not. They can also spin it as them being a SK especially if they shoot wrong. One shot means after that I’m a glorified VT. The only thing I forgot about is if scum have a RB but I’ll deal with that if it happens.

Hopefully scum kill me tonight and I don’t have to deal with this game anymore.

[Apple Jack]

Fairly certain DH said he wouldn't shoot

Correct.

[Apple Jack]

I’m definitely down for a mulch lynch if I can’t shoot him.

I’ve really got to get back to painting so ttfn

[Apple Jack]

Was this really your stance Derpy? How does it make sense to not shoot just because we got a townie? How does us lynching a townie make Mulch any more or less scum in your eyes?

I mean if we are talking about smart play.

1. Vig should not ever shoot n1.
2. If we mislynch vig should holster
3. The exception is if the consensus agrees to shoot and that target is decided.

Now some say I don’t play smart which I guess I can see why people think that because I always shoot n1.

If people don’t want me to shoot, I won’t shoot. If they do, I will.

I’m fairly certain mulch is scum and want him gone. If he is town he’s not helping town. He’s and his predecessor have also pissed me off but I don’t want rage to fuck up the game anymore than it already has.

[Apple Jack]

This feels like an odd about-face from you.

Stepping away from the game to let your anger settle down does that to people. I’ll continue ignoring him and do what I feel is right to win.

[Apple Jack]

I did not feel that the arguments with Mulch have passed the line to personal insults.

Agreed

[Apple Jack]

when a game is making someone mad, they take less interest in it.

His anger isn’t real. It can’t be.

I asked him to explain his scum reads and he didn’t really. The stuff he did say wasn’t even AI. He later admitted that he hasn’t helped town and he is upset that he argued with me and it was pointless but he knows my meta supposedly so he knows arguing with me is pointless.

He’s done no real scum hunting. He replaced into a slot that he knew I was going to tunnel and he intentionally fueled my fire instead of ignoring me. Then others chimed in and pushed him probably because they noticed that his play and claim look bad.

Normally I’m against lynching Pr claims day 1, but in this case I can say there is a 99.9% chance his claim is false.

[Apple Jack]

DH if we lynch Mulch who are you shooting?

Probably psycho

[Apple Jack]

The funny thing is I have actually been an even night regular cop as scum on this site.

[Apple Jack]

What’s a 3P?

[Apple Jack]

third party, player not town or mafia.

Oh I don’t remember that. I can probably find it later. But I believe it was a 13p game.

[Apple Jack]

You realize you kinda have to shoot right?

Yeah I get it. If I’m right and scum is mulch, I’m shooting psycho or profli. Probably Psycho.

If somehow I’m wrong not sure who I’ll shoot

[Apple Jack]

Anger makes people do stupid things.

[Apple Jack]

In any other game I’d be lynching hawk for suggesting we lynch a PR and a vig should shoot on Night 1 haha but it does actually make sense, oh god

Trust me I don't like it either... but the way the two of them claimed it's too hard to give them the benefit of the doubt... Both claimed out of anger before anyone put them close to daylynch...

He had low contributions before the anger. He also didn’t claim out of anger, he claimed out of fear I was going to shoot him.

All I wanted him to do was provide good reasons for his scum reads. He managed to give me a couple of non AI reasons for one scum read.

Dude actually tried to say that disagreeing with somebody’s vote means they are scum.

[Apple Jack]

But to be fair his first post of the game should have given us a clue that regardless of alignment he had no intention of playing this game.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: mulch

L-1

If scum. Yippee

If town. Blacklisted.

[Apple Jack]

99.9%.

[Apple Jack]

Another reason I feel like Mulch is lying is that I feel a Vig and a Cop would be a lot of power in one town,

That’s not even that much power. Some consider vig a negative untility because more often vig shoots town.

Day 1 is too early to speculate on too much or too little power because we don’t know what scum has

[Apple Jack]

shot that gets reloaded only if he hits scum

I love that modifier. Keeping that in mind for a game down the road.

[Apple Jack]

Breaking my ignoring Mulch for a second.

I’ve always wondered something. What happen to you attacking people who voted tiam because he was mislynch bait to you calling him scum and voting him yourself.

Also earlier you said you are very familiar with rb and this is his town game but you’ve only played with rb twice and once time you were scum. How can 2 games enough to be “very familiar” with someone?

[Apple Jack]

I'm not sure what the policy is here, but considering activity was affected by holiday season and mod himself is VLA, can we get an extension?

I am checking votes now. However I do not plan on granting an extension.

On page 27 in the VC the mod basically said he would consider an extension due to the holidays. We just had to ask.

[Apple Jack]

So you aren’t going to answer my questions?

[Apple Jack]

Have a nice life bro

[Apple Jack]

I stole that from a meme cause it’s funny as fuck. New Years resolution for you should be to get a sense of humor.

[Apple Jack]

*if you flip town.

I don’t typically apologize for being wrong and no player should imo. If you are town you should be apologizing to us.

[Apple Jack]

Fake news.

He tried to use a mistake I made against me knowing I can’t explain or even talk about it.

Town doesn’t do that. They just don’t.

When given the chance to retract and apologize he refused. Town doesn’t do that either.

I threw my entire game out the window because of that.

[Apple Jack]

Stop spamming with your never ending argument and vote no lynch.

No lynch is the dumbest thing ever.

[Apple Jack]

I'm not putting it past Derpy Hooves to be pulling a gambit as either alignment here.

I don’t ever gambit. Hate them actually. You clearly don’t know me at all.

[Apple Jack]

commuter isn't a powerful role?

HAHAHAHA

It isn’t.

[Apple Jack]

Also keep in mind commuter is yet

another

PR that could theoretically live forever without being proven real or fake.

If mulch and bu are both town that’s not actually true.

[Apple Jack]

Wouldn’t surprise me if acoryn is scum but all these Pr claims coming from scummy people makes it hard to tell who’s lying and who’s telling the truth.

[Apple Jack]

Is there really a reason to do it as Vig. "he called me a liar" is total BS.

I pride myself in not lying unless I absolutely have to. For somebody to question my integrity like that when there wa absolutely no reason for me to lie is what is BS. He was given the opportunity to retract and apologize and refused.

[Apple Jack]

Come on DH. This is mafia. There is no such thing as integrity when anyone can be made a liar by design whether they like it or not.

I almost never lie as town, and as scum I lie only when I have to (aka I am not scum and shit like that)

As town, the only lies I really tell are when I try to protect myself from outing my role or the limitations of my role. I also lied once when i threatened town I was going to get myself modkilled if we didn't lynch somebody but ultimately decided it was better to take the lie than do something harmful to the town.

I would never lie about something meaningless as confusing games.

[Apple Jack]

Being a good liar is necessary in mafia, if you are bad at least.

meh, given site meta and the number of shitty players lately, you can get by as scum without having to lie too much.

[Apple Jack]

Derpy, please consider alignment of BuJaber and interactions with players when taking your shot.

what does this mean?

what does town flip mean for mulch?

what does scum flip mean for mulch?

what about profli and psycho?

those are my 3 scum reads.

[Apple Jack]

problem is I have see town and scum share the odd/even thing before so even if bu flips town, that doesn't confirm mulch is.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: profli

[Apple Jack]

Other mason doesn’t need to claim imo. Not yet anyway

[Apple Jack]

I’m busy painting today and tomorrow so I’ll be sporadic in my posting

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: profli

The only defence I have is you obviously spotted something I didn’t I have no idea how you called that - I still think the liar reason was a bit loose but it worked

You didn’t read my posts did you? It’s more than the lie about my mistake. His predecessor was very manipulative. I started questioning psycho first and he latched on and then tried to blame me for copying him. That’s manipulative and not town ever.

[Apple Jack]

I’m voting you because you didn’t do hardly any scum hunting and you’d rather vote me or no lynch instead of pushing your reads. Later you were very wishy washy.

I’ll re-read the game when I have time. Turns out I have to take my mil to get a transfusion tomorrow and that’s like 2 hours so yay no painting but boo cancer sucks. I’ll read up then

[Apple Jack]

okay i got pocketed by Mulch

Or that’s what he wanted us to think.

[Apple Jack]

I’m good with a psycho lynch.

[Apple Jack]

VOTE: psycho

Normal guidelines don’t allow self protection

[Apple Jack]

That’s l-1 I think

[Apple Jack]

I honestly can’t see psycho town here. If he really is scum that’s fucking hilarious what monkey tried to do.

[Apple Jack]

Yeah no point in waiting

[Apple Jack]

You're idiots. Scum deserves to win this one.

Why? You claimed you self protected which is not allowed.

So this means

A. You lied
B. You did something stupid
C. There is a mod/game reviewer error.

[Apple Jack]

So derpy didn’t catch me

Actually that’s not true. I caught your predecessor and you replaced in and continued to play like scum. I certainly wasn’t threatened by you. That’s fucking hilarious you believe that.

[Apple Jack]

Caught both scum as sk. anger makes me do stupid things

Time to take a break from mafia. Just way too busy atm.

[Apple Jack]

No I killed you cause I thought you were scum and I killed rb because I didn’t buy the buddying act. Nice try though.

[Apple Jack]

In complete honesty though, I will say that I dislike rb as a player in general so if I was wrong about him it would have been fun anyway

[Apple Jack]

tbh I wasn't even thinking. I let my rage mess with my mind.

My plan was to just shoot once and not shoot anymore, hopefully scum would leave me alive because most people think I am a liability to town and given rb was the other scum, nobody would have ever suspected him.

once the doctor died, I knew I was dead so I figure I would shoot who I thought was most likely scum and if I was wrong i'd at least get some pleasure out of it.

It's hard for me to play as scum, because I am always scum hunting. Even when I am scum I am still "scum hunting" aka pushing the things I personally find scummy. It's easier to do obviously as scum though but I am afraid the entire time. That is really the only difference between my town and scum games. my own fear lol

[Apple Jack]

@ mod

Why did you let doctor self protect when it is against normal guidelines to do so?

I am in no position to criticize that decision to self protect given my stupidity, but others certainly can lol

[Apple Jack]

meh ok.

[Apple Jack]

the thing is his role pm doesn't even say he can protect himself. It should have been clearer imo but whatever. yall won anyway

[Apple Jack]

I had a gut feeling on rb, so easy to of course because we now know but I couldn't say anything because I had no evidence to back the claim.

interestingly, if the dr was alive and saved derpy, the scum would have died and derpy could have maintained his 1 shot vig claim to the end, so psyko was the perfect lynch in a way

kinda pleased I got a bite there derpy seeing as no one was following me that you were dodgey as f__k in the game

lol, that is my town game. I don't play any different as scum or town. I probably should but whatever. Had I not claimed vig, I probably would have won.

[Apple Jack]

I didn't pick up any crumbs and had no idea who his buddy was. I knew I was getting shot once the doctor died. I know I messed up claiming vig but when people accuse me of lying about things I am not lying about I get really offended. I would never lie about something meaningless like that. I legitimately confused my games.

[Apple Jack]

I don't get what the point of a ninja was.

[Apple Jack]

yeah, not a fan of mods using these red herrings. so many people use setup speculation to game solve and it ends up fucking town over