Open 704: Switch (Game Over)
- Almost50
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Almost50 Monkey Business
- Almost50
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@mutant: I'd disagree on the bit of letting any claimed scum live, as I'm against the idea of leashing scum in general (and I'm thankful Wisdom is not here to counter my argument).
The last a recent game I played (open 700) the town did just that (let the claimed SK live) and it almost cost as the game, as the "claimed SK" was actually the 2nd Mafia member!! Lynching them o the spot would have revealed a LOT of info (game mechanics dictated flips were hidden until the killer was flipped). The Mafia did help us in a way by actually targeting the real SK to end up in a 2v1 LyLo rather than a 1v1v1 in which case we would have lost regardless bc No Lynch wasn't even an option.
Regardless, I'm always against the leashing of claimed/guiltied Scum on principle.
Modded 2 Opens & 2 Large Themed games successfully.- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Reads list (Keep in mind I'm using scumhunting techniques since I don't know how to hunt SKs and we can probably just do that later)
(so top means not mafia and bottom means mafia):
___________________________
Almost50: I see 0 anti-town motivation in his posts other than trying super hard to look town. This could change D2 but for now he's off my lynch table.
Lalendra: Apparent genuine efforts to scumhunt. Not many posts though and this will change if she just takes the free townread.
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Elmo: Possibly scum getting bussed but otherwise hard for me to see as scum. Most likely town pending today's flip.
mutant: Shit wagon, mislynch bait, and needs to participate more, but town.
Maxous: Tied with mutant. Making more of an effort to create a townbloc than to push lynches. I'm kind of into it.
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Sauce: Was reading null-scum but I like post 101 so I guess null-town?
Chip Butty: Lol a single post. Null.
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havingfitz: Null-scum. I liked him at first but interactions rub me the wrong way.
Raya: Super scummy, seems to be doing everything to make me think she's not. Elmo wagon was opportunistic and hopping off the Elmo wagon when I called her out was equally bad.
Bins: I don't see this changing anytime soon, but I'm willing to work with her to collect reads/wagon people.
___________________________
Not_Mafia: Unfuckingreadable, I give up, someone else read him lategame.- mutantdevle
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mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
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I'd say it is more that mechanic that would have almost screwed them over rather than the notion of keeping the SK alive. If a SK does not kill a fake claiming scum lord then we'd simply get a guaranteed successful lynch when the SK flips. All in all, I just think having the SK as the last person we lynch to win is the best case scenario as a mafia member fake claiming SK will equal itself out eventually if not immediately.In post 125, Almost50 wrote:@mutant: I'd disagree on the bit of letting any claimed scum live, as I'm against the idea of leashing scum in general (and I'm thankful Wisdom is not here to counter my argument).
The last a recent game I played (open 700) the town did just that (let the claimed SK live) and it almost cost as the game, as the "claimed SK" was actually the 2nd Mafia member!! Lynching them o the spot would have revealed a LOT of info (game mechanics dictated flips were hidden until the killer was flipped). The Mafia did help us in a way by actually targeting the real SK to end up in a 2v1 LyLo rather than a 1v1v1 in which case we would have lost regardless bc No Lynch wasn't even an option.
Regardless, I'm always against the leashing of claimed/guiltied Scum on principle.I mostly just lurk now.- havingfitz
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havingfitz Survivor
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Mostly v/LA until Wednesday. I'll try to post if I get any time. Tough around Christmas.Town 57w-66l :: Not Town 29w-16l:: TBD 2
V/LA on weekends (i.e. RL > mafia)
The shortest GTKAS thread ever!- Raya36
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Raya36 Mafia Scum
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I did this as worse case scenario. You're right about the scum partner thing. We'll just have to be careful in choosing our lynch candidate.In post 95, Mathdino wrote:
Your Math is roughly correct but keep in mind lynches aren't random, and this hurts town. The very presence of scumpartner reduces the chances of a scum lynch. Plus, in 4v3v1, we've essentially already lost. Lynching SK gives mafia majority, and lynching mafia allows both to hit 2 more town. That all said, this is largely game irrelevant now.In post 93, Raya36 wrote:UNVOTE: Elmo
So we are down two town rn so there are 12 in the game total. There are three scum in the game and one sk which makes 8v3v1. Rn we have a 25% chance of hitting scum. So if we mislynch, scum get a kill, sk gets a kill and hits a townie, and vig misses we are now down 4 more townies. We'll have 8 total players 3 of which are scum and 1 is sk. We would be in a 4v3v1 situation. Lylo and a 50% chance of hitting anyone but town. About a 38% chance of hitting scum.
Did I do the same calculations as you?
Oh, it wasn't supposed to be in responce but I see how it looks that way now. I unvoted because I was only keeping the vote more to get more out of Elmo and she posted so I didn't see much use in keeping my vote there anymore.Your unvote in response to me pushing the shittiness of the Elmo wagon, without putting your vote somewhere else, doesn't really help your case tbh.
I'm not convinced on that being a scumslip. Town should be hunting scum not the sk but the sk is still a threat so her post is completely reasonable. There's just one sk and to eliminate them will remove an extra kill every night so I definitely see the logic behind the post. I think this is honestly just a poorly thought out idea coming from town. Bins 97 comes across as really genuine too.Raya if you want a good place to park your vote, try here.
(But yeah, lets hunt for scum not the sk.)- Maxous
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Maxous Mafia Scum
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I should of stuck with my first vote
VOTE: mutantdevle
he ignored giving any reads or analysis and popped in just to talk theory.
Bins did not "scumslip"
i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far
i'm leaning towards an A50 town-read.
i'm actually not convinced on Math being town despite how vocal and aggressive he's being tbh"And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative" - Belisarius
wiki (actually) updated- Sauce
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Sauce Goon
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Starting sentences with i often seems to be a scumtell for you.In post 130, Maxous wrote: i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far
i'm leaning towards an A50 town-read.
i'm actually not convinced on Math being town despite how vocal and aggressive he's being tbh- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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This is experience-indicative more than it is alignment-indicative. I notice you've only played a single newbie game. That is the kind of shit discussion derails into (I think the same is true of the Open queue). New logical types feel like they're the hotshots that can prove how much mafia theory they know and can apply.In post 130, Maxous wrote:he ignored giving any reads or analysis and popped in just to talk theory.
I don't think I've ever seen scum openly solely setup spec as a way to avoid actual scumhunting.
But also, whatever, if more people suspect him he'll probably produce real content so carry on.- Maxous
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Maxous Mafia Scum
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It's not as if he's given any reads apart from that
his ISO is rather reactive"And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative" - Belisarius
wiki (actually) updated- Chip Butty
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Chip Butty Mafia Scum
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First complete readthrough: A50 is town. MD is 70% town. Bins is 70% scum. Mutant could well be SK. Lots of boring setup talk, to which I will now add my two cent's worth:
If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.
More reads soonish, I hope.- Equinox
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Equinox he/theyShot Count
- Equinox
- Chip Butty
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Chip Butty
- Chip Butty
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Chip Butty
- Chip Butty
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Chip Butty Mafia Scum
- Chip Butty
- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Oh I agree with this. Leashing the SK is dangerous. But if I had a choice between lynching a confirmed SK and a confirmed mafia, I'd choose mafia (although keep in mind mafia often claims SK to survive longer).In post 134, Chip Butty wrote:If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.
The problem is that SK hunting is significantly harder than mafiahunting because their lack of information/association makes them more similar to town. So I'm very much against lynching someone today because they might be SK. I'd rather lynch people who drop mafia tells.
Raya and Bins are still giving me the heeby-jeebies. I'd like a flip on one of them to confirm this.
Chip seems townish but I'm getting a slight feel of lowkey bussing.
MORE VOTES, PEOPLE. This game is slow af.- Elmo TeH AzN
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Elmo TeH AzN Jack of All Trades
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Its Christmas.In post 139, Mathdino wrote:
Oh I agree with this. Leashing the SK is dangerous. But if I had a choice between lynching a confirmed SK and a confirmed mafia, I'd choose mafia (although keep in mind mafia often claims SK to survive longer).In post 134, Chip Butty wrote:If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.
The problem is that SK hunting is significantly harder than mafiahunting because their lack of information/association makes them more similar to town. So I'm very much against lynching someone today because they might be SK. I'd rather lynch people who drop mafia tells.
Raya and Bins are still giving me the heeby-jeebies. I'd like a flip on one of them to confirm this.
Chip seems townish but I'm getting a slight feel of lowkey bussing.
MORE VOTES, PEOPLE. This game is slow af.Stats not in the wiki. I'm That Crazy Panda.
I Speak Engrish Not English Leave My Grammar Alone.
Permanently V/LA- mutantdevle
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mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
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I'm an ask and you shall receive kind of guy. If you ever want me to give my reads at any point during the game then simply just ask me. I'm not one for missing questions.In post 130, Maxous wrote:I should of stuck with my first vote
VOTE: mutantdevle
he ignored giving any reads or analysis and popped in just to talk theory.
Bins did not "scumslip"
i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far
My current reads list:
Town:
Almost50
Mathdino
Town Lean:
Lalendra
Bins
Raya36
Null:
havingfitz
Maxous
Chip Butty
Elmo TeH AzN
Espeonage
Jodaxq
Scum Lean:
Not_Mafia
Sauce
Scum:
None.
If you need me to elaborate on any of these then feel free to ask.I mostly just lurk now.- mutantdevle
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mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
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You realise the mafia have a vig right? We are facing up to 4 deaths per day/night cycle. If the SK dies, their vig basically has the freedom to have a guaranteed kill every night. The SK has at least a chance to hit scum. In contrast, a mafia vig is always going to hit town.In post 134, Chip Butty wrote:If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.I mostly just lurk now.- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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mutant is VI-esque but you should get your votes off him. I don't believe his blatant misunderstanding of the setup is intentional. This is a townslip.
mutant, talk to me about Bins and Raya. I obviously disagree with you so you should explain where you're at in reading them as town.- Almost50
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Almost50 Monkey Business
- Almost50
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Ok, guys. Fine. I get it. I'm going to be shot by the Mafia sooner than later and the doctor is already dead so I will accept my fate. Thank you.
Geez! It was never my intention to be the very top TR on each and every readlist.
Modded 2 Opens & 2 Large Themed games successfully.- mutantdevle
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mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
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Sorry, but what exactly am I misunderstanding? As town, we share a common objective with the SK to eliminate the mafia. Furthermore, the SK is useful to us because of how they can mess with the switches. As soon as the SK dies, we lose all our PRs with them as the remaining scum will just activate the switches so that they can use additional abilities and we can't. If we knew who the SK was, we could save them until the end to lynch them. That way, we get to keep the 50/50 chance that our PRs get to use their ability. If you want another reason to keep the SK alive, then consider that the SK counts as town in regards to the mafia having to gain a majority to win. I'm not saying we should hunt for the SK specifically, but if they were ever to reveal themselves to us then we should keep them alive until the very end as the scum would be in a far stronger position compared to us when the SK is dead.In post 143, Mathdino wrote:I don't believe his blatant misunderstanding of the setup is intentional.
Bins: She casually mentions her reads which is always useful for reading her and is engaging in conversation more so than most. I think her confusion with the switching mechanic is fair enough and not something that is scummy. Her only scummy action is how she thought we should be prioritising finding the SK. To me though, that looks like a genuine thought spawned by the logic that 1 less night kill = better for town. Obviously, this logic has since been proven to be flawed due to the SK additional switch abilities but Bins has stated she didn't recognise that the SK had such a strong power which I believe to be the truth on her part. I do recognise the possibility that she is faking the confusion as a way of getting out of such a scum slip which is why she is a town lean for me rather than a town read.In post 143, Mathdino wrote:mutant, talk to me about Bins and Raya. I obviously disagree with you so you should explain where you're at in reading them as town.
Raya: Despite not saying a lot, the posts she does have seem of good quality to me. She is also scum hunting by asking a few question here and there as well as making criticisms of other's comments. Obviously, she isn't pushing anyone too much but I figure that's understandable at this stage in the game. Finally, I really don't see how she has done anything scummy at all; all of her posts feel genuine to me.I mostly just lurk now.- mutantdevle
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mutantdevle Mafia Scum
- mutantdevle
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I thought I removed that from that post... obviously, they are town (and also dead).
I mostly just lurk now.- Almost50
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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@Mafia: You should be hunting for the SK as a priority. If they picked to be immune to Town action then you can kill them and be safe from their NK. If they picked to be immune to your kill you would still be able to recognize them as they won't die to your shot, and in either case you want to control the switches. Go for it.
Modded 2 Opens & 2 Large Themed games successfully.- Elmo TeH AzN
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Elmo TeH AzN Jack of All Trades
- Elmo TeH AzN
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Most town post of the game. Yeah Why wouldnt someone put you at the top of the list for TownIn post 147, Almost50 wrote:@Mafia: You should be hunting for the SK as a priority. If they picked to be immune to Town action then you can kill them and be safe from their NK. If they picked to be immune to your kill you would still be able to recognize them as they won't die to your shot, and in either case you want to control the switches. Go for it.Stats not in the wiki. I'm That Crazy Panda.
I Speak Engrish Not English Leave My Grammar Alone.
Permanently V/LA- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Between you, me, and just PR hunting it'll probably depend on whose reads are more accurate.In post 144, Almost50 wrote:Ok, guys. Fine. I get it. I'm going to be shot by the Mafia sooner than later and the doctor is already dead so I will accept my fate. Thank you.
Geez! It was never my intention to be the very top TR on each and every readlist.
Spoiler: setup stuff, ignore if you don't wanna keep talking setup
Bins: Notice that she only started contributing to the conversation after I got people to pressure her. I actually agree that her confusion is genuine, but that's not alignment indicative.In post 145, mutantdevle wrote:Bins: She casually mentions her reads which is always useful for reading her and is engaging in conversation more so than most. I think her confusion with the switching mechanic is fair enough and not something that is scummy. Her only scummy action is how she thought we should be prioritising finding the SK. To me though, that looks like a genuine thought spawned by the logic that 1 less night kill = better for town. Obviously, this logic has since been proven to be flawed due to the SK additional switch abilities but Bins has stated she didn't recognise that the SK had such a strong power which I believe to be the truth on her part. I do recognise the possibility that she is faking the confusion as a way of getting out of such a scum slip which is why she is a town lean for me rather than a town read.
Raya: Despite not saying a lot, the posts she does have seem of good quality to me. She is also scum hunting by asking a few question here and there as well as making criticisms of other's comments. Obviously, she isn't pushing anyone too much but I figure that's understandable at this stage in the game. Finally, I really don't see how she has done anything scummy at all; all of her posts feel genuine to me.
Raya: Post quality is non-alignment indicative. Raya is a good player and is entirely capable of asking questions as scum lol.
You're surface level scumhunting. Both your scumreads are people who, by nature, low-effort post. You should be looking at motivation behind posts, not quality as a player.
Asking questions of people and talking a lot without a real goal in mind is scummy (this is actually why people are scumreading you, but I don't think you're doing it for scummy reasons). It makes you look like you're town because you're contributing, but it absolves you of responsibility for bad wagons. Also allows you to test the waters for possible lynches, waiting for others to make the big pushes so you can sheep them later. This is scum motivation, and I don't think is consistent with a Raya trying to solve the game.
When it comes to Bins, you've again provided evidence she's a good player, but not evidence that her game is inconsistent with scum. A townread is when you find it hard to believe someone is scum. A scumread is when you find it hard to believe someone is town. - Mathdino
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- Elmo TeH AzN
- Almost50
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- Almost50
- Mathdino
- mutantdevle
- mutantdevle
- Elmo TeH AzN
- Mathdino
- Chip Butty
- Maxous
- Mathdino
- Sauce
- Maxous
- Raya36
- havingfitz
- mutantdevle
- Mathdino
- Almost50