Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Luca Blight

So... We meet again

[Lucky2u]

Why would you include the 2 players on the ZJ wagon?

[Lucky2u]

... that just makes it seem like you picked any of the names without pattern and said scum are in there. It makes it look super lazy since there is another wagon at 2 as well so you just picked the top 2 wagons in the VC, by position in format not by vote count amount.

FoS Commknight.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Commknight

While the town reads on Cy are... unsettling... after his response to Comm, Comm still reads as the scum in all this to me. I am going to ride this wagon today.

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide

the scuminess

his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

this should probably be implied, but fixing anyway

[Lucky2u]

No i'm not. He wants to be coy about it in his 38 but that's what he wants to show that he was doing all along.

[Lucky2u]

What's to say he wasn't looking for reactions, though?

Most things done in and around RVS are for the purpose of gauging reactions in order to move the game forward.

No Luca, just no.

I legit do not know where you think this wifom line of questioning is going to go. I mean, by this logic, "what's to say" (which is just a fancy way of saying what if) I'm a sentient cow that learned to type and play mafia?

Comm did a thing that I interpreted as scummy. He was questioned about it, and then did another thing I interpreted as scummy. You are not doing a good job of convincing me it wasn't by saying "Well... what if it wasn't?"

[Lucky2u]

... that just makes it seem like you picked any of the names without pattern and said scum are in there. It makes it look super lazy since there is another wagon at 2 as well so you just picked the top 2 wagons in the VC, by position in format not by vote count amount.

FoS Commknight.

He's lazy for saying scum are on big wagons...


what?

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide

the scuminess

his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

this should probably be implied, but fixing anyway

how is that scummy?

So, in conclusion:

wagoning comm is STUPID
luca is TOWN

Cutting out the middle quotes that had nothing to do with me...

No, he is lazy for just highlighting the top part of the vote count and saying scum is in there. I don't think he put any thought or analysis into it and he sure as hell didn't vocalize any if he did. He never said or made the argument that "scum are on big wagons" even when I questioned him why he chose that group, he just copy pasted the vote count. He wanted to seem like he was contributing but did it in such a dumb fake way.

[Lucky2u]

I see you completely ignored the second line.

You're saying he's scummy for apparently looking for reactions, when that is something that is commonly done in and around RVS.

You are the one who wants to lynch Comm, you are the one using this as your reasoning for suspecting him, therefore the onus is on you to provide something that shows Comm was not really looking for reactions as claimed.

I didn't ignore the second line. Your second line was explaining a basic concept of mafia, what is there to respond to? I don't disagree with it. Scum happen to know that too. They would want to do something that makes it look like thats what they are doing. It's just more wifom.

[Lucky2u]

You're saying he's scummy for apparently looking for reactions,

You're not reading Luca. I think he is scummy for implying that he was looking for reactions after being caught bullshitting an intial post that was meant to look like a contribution. Essentially the same as crashing into the wall and saying "I meant to do that!"

[Lucky2u]

also the fact that it took you THIS LONG to say anything comprehensible is a fault.

Who and what is this a comment at? You are ironically incomprehensible in whatever point you are trying to make with this statement.

and comm just, does this a lot. regardless of alignment.

So... meta... great. That's -yaaawwwnnn- such a... convincing... argu... zzzzzZZZZzzzz

[Lucky2u]

I am reading; that was what I meant by the word 'apparently'.

Yes it's wifom, but that's all your vote is based on; it has no substance. You have no evidence Comm wasn't really looking for reactions; it's pure conjecture.

We are in a vanilla game, that will have no night kills, and only lynches on day 1. What "evidence" are you expecting us to find exactly Luca?

[Lucky2u]

Something to show his intentions are not as he claimed them to be.

Give me an actual example of this that could happen on Day 1. If you can, find an example in a finished game that did not include any day actions or weird mechanics. I will wait here while you find one.

[Lucky2u]

I am asking you what YOU think valid reasoning is. I've already given you my reasoning, and last I checked I think my own reasoning is valid. Don't dodge the question. Give me an example of what you think valid reasoning is to move forward with a vote right now.

[Lucky2u]

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

[Lucky2u]

Also, regarding AtE, I misused it a bit. I was more referring to Luca's emotional as opposed to rational/reasoned responses. If you think I'm off base, tell me.

I think your off base. Nothing in my interaction with Luca seemed like he was being emotional. He was... Frustratingly stubborn but if he pulled out AtE anywhere, I missed it. Youre going to need to re-explain whatever point you were trying to make here.

[Lucky2u]

giving lucky a town pass for sheer effort.
he copuld be very good scum, but hes not a day 1 lynch

...what? Thanks for town reading me, but this is absolutely the wrong reason to.

[Lucky2u]

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

This is kind of irrational and not town-productive. You must know that you would never get the level of rationale you required in 89. Why are you pretending like it was a fair request? And how would you define "Luca logic"?

That's the point though. He was never going to be able to provide me an example of solid proof in a nightless vanilla game, yet he was disagreeing with me because I didn't have this thing that literally cannot exist. There will be no cop guilty level proof, so we have to read things and make our opinion. I made my opinion, he disagreed with it for a nonsense reason.

[Lucky2u]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

[Lucky2u]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

I don't think that's what he was getting at. I think he was cautioning you from making a scum read on something that is heavily WIFOM-laden

I'm obviously taking it to the extreme but I don't feel my reason for voting comm was wifom at all

[Lucky2u]

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

There's some definite fence–sitting happening. Can't say if there is an actual attempt at pocketing, but I don't really know UCVs meta

depending on who you ask


according to Luca, i am always scummy. (not true) regardless of alignment, but I joke around as town and don't try.

It's cute that you think you have a meta UCV. Frankly you are just as likely to be a secret Jester as scum. I don't get that Luca has such confidence in his scum read of you but I believe that he thinks he caught you.

[Lucky2u]

Obvious Scum Gets Caught And Moves To The Side With All The Town

also, don't be like "well, you're actually kinda wrong about these things;" when you can't say why i am, because i am not, because i have never made any mistake this entire game. i am the flawless townie. Breathe. Breathe.

you still look like scum.

Lynch me then. If you're going to be irrational and not provide measured responses and confirmation bias me the entire game, it would be easier for me and better for town if we got it over with.

this buzzword string is a fucking perfect storm of comedy

@voy its not ate. its lamist

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

This is kind of irrational and not town-productive. You must know that you would never get the level of rationale you required in 89. Why are you pretending like it was a fair request? And how would you define "Luca logic"?

That's the point though. He was never going to be able to provide me an example of solid proof in a nightless vanilla game, yet he was disagreeing with me because I didn't have this thing that literally cannot exist. There will be no cop guilty level proof, so we have to read things and make our opinion. I made my opinion, he disagreed with it for a nonsense reason.

"if he doesnt provide me proof that this thing that can obviously happen has happened, even though its obvious it can if i think about it for more than 5 seconds

he is SCUM LYING!1111!!!111!"

fucking done with you.

---

wow athena, that's a lot of nothing you've said.

I never called Luca scum or implied I was scum reading him. Did you think I did or are you misrepresenting me?

[Lucky2u]

{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

Putting Sesq in the top line of your reads implying him a strong town read and then adding that statement in the parenthesis is very weird. Are you trying to have your cake (buddy him now) and eat it too (reserve the right to support his lynch later)?

[Lucky2u]

I'm not fully able to explain why I strongly believe UCV is scum other than that I know his meta well, and he knows I know his meta well. He has been trying to buddy me because he knows I have a tendency to tunnel on him when I scumread him, and he was trying to prevent that.

Basically if you townread me then I implore you to trust me and vote UCV - there is no better lynch for D1.

That's an oddly specific conclusion into UCV's motivation. While it's true I have a slight town read on you, we are far from agreeing on logic with each other right now.

[Lucky2u]

I'm obviously taking it to the extreme but I don't feel my reason for voting comm was wifom at all

How is it not? Scum!Comm could be trying to distract from actual scum and Town!Comm could be reaction fishing. Both of these are equally legitimate possibilities, esp since we were so close to RVS. Do you disagree?

Reading back and I see I missed this.

Disagree that they are both possibilities? no. I disagree that the town version of that scenario is what was happening, I believe it was the scum version of that scenario. If he really was reaction fishing, which again he never stated he was doing that he just implied he might, then wow did he pull it off in the dumbest way possible.

I'm still trying to work out you in my head if you are noob or scum Impede. The thing that has pinged me the most from you was that "Lynch me" comment. 9/10 that comment comes from scum. However, given sesq being an unapologetic douche I can kind of see why you said it. In your 226 you fence sat about UCV fence sitting. Fence sitting-ception if you will. He previously topped a reads list for you as town, still the same?

[Lucky2u]

as i said, im done with lucky because he is too terrible at this game to warrant my time.

as for ucv wagon... i can see where it's coming from? but he feels somewhat honest. ill have to see more

Oh no... whatever will I do without your insightful...

Spoiler:

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

this is too egregious to continue.

the worst post in all of mafia

fucking done with you.

...commentary on my gameplay?

Please... comeback...

[Lucky2u]

My apologies Sesq.

However, given sesq

is playing like an

unapologetic douche I can kind of see why you said it.

There, fixed it.

[Lucky2u]

as i said, im done with lucky because he is too terrible at this game to warrant my time.

as for ucv wagon... i can see where it's coming from? but he feels somewhat honest. ill have to see more

Oh no... whatever will I do without your insightful...

Spoiler:

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

this is too egregious to continue.

the worst post in all of mafia

fucking done with you.

...commentary on my gameplay?

Please... comeback...

this is not that good

Im hoping your joking with the gif because you are telling someone to stop trying to read you. there is a difference between reading and commenting on your gameplay

why do you think he is commenting on your gameplay?
he is saying why your posts are not town motivated

cutting the image from the quote, hope no willy wonka fans mind.

No UCV, I am not really telling her to try and stop reading me. She's made up her mind about me, whatever. I'm just not generally nice to players who use that toxic garbage flavor in their posts. Everyone is the worst, everyone is terrible, everyone is so bad they have to laugh at them and if they make a mistake and mislynch someone its because that player wasn't playing town well enough so they are responsible for their own mislynch. The only player I've ever accepted that toxic playstyle from is RC. Atleast when he does it there is a cute anime avatar to look at.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: UCV

/shrug

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: UC Voyager

right, automated vote counter

[Lucky2u]

I'm not as %100 as Luca in the UCV wagon but I'll be leaving my vote. I kind of voted because it looked like a caught scum rage quit. Now that he came back, I just don't want the chance that the whole thing was a show to be left on the table. Better to let this be lynched today. I think we are gathering some useful info as it is with who is and is not joining the wagon now.

[Lucky2u]

Im not sure how to react to that lynch. I didn't actually expect Luca to be so right.

I guess I'll reread and see what interactions stand out.

[Lucky2u]

I don't know moz... Impede seeming good in his last few posts. I really liked what Luca is saying about Cult. After getting a day 1 scum lynch on UCV, I'm willing to just sit in his pocket for another wagon.

Cy's effort ramping up is pinging me. Though I can tend to do the same as town. So maybe NAI. He is definitely acting like there is more pressure on him then is warranted for his responses.

[Lucky2u]

cytheflyguy
Zulfy
LaserGuy
Athena
Comm

i think take comm out of that, and replace with impede?

If anyone I'd take out zulfy, the rest are better scumspects then zulfy who is more or less just a lurker policy lynch.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: CommKnight

I'm so ready for this.

[Lucky2u]

No one is seriously this oblivious.... he dug himself a hole and now he is doubling down.

More votes on Comm please!

[Lucky2u]

This is the most obvious scum wagon I've ever seen. We are lynching the guy that has posted basically nothing? I get policy lynches and all but we can't find a single candidate better then this? Everyone else on Luca's lynch pool is so much better and more of a quality lynch then the guy that gets us nothing.

[Lucky2u]

Dear future moz, if you invent a time machine, tell past moz not to try buddying me so hard. It's one thing to agree with me, it's another to all caps declare to the thread you think I'm town.

But thanks for seeing sense. Let's lynch comm or cy, either one works for me.

[Lucky2u]

So do the reasons that you think I'm scum go beyond my relation to the UC Voyager lynch?

THIS IS A SCUM POST.
Scum are always desperate to know WHY people are voting for them, so they can "refute" the point. Town often dont really care why people are vitng for them, or will just tell the other person to STFU etc

This goes well with my philosophy that town should make scum hunting their priority, not avoiding their own lynch.

[Lucky2u]

I'm gonna chop the lynch pool down to three.

LaserGuy
Impede
Zaraki

One of these is being lynched today.

Did I miss the reason you removed Athena from this list?

[Lucky2u]

Oh right, this game. Let me get to a computer tonight and I'll throwdown some thoughts

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Cult of Athena

I'm throwing myself behind Moz on this one, sorry Luca.

[Lucky2u]

@ Luca I learned a hard lesson from a game recently that conf town doesnt mean infallible. So I'm trying to keep an open mind here. Cult has been my instinct read here for awhile, partially in part because of the way they fight back so much against you to the point of it being an attempt to discredit and still spread doubt that you might be scum.

[Lucky2u]

You said you had real reasons that he was scum, rather than it just being a lurker lynch. Even if you don't still think he's scum, what were those reasons?

1) he still could be scum, altho he's some way behind you, Laser, and Cy .

2) I didn't like Archer, so i guess i was biased against Zulfy when he replaced in. If you look back, i think Archer was my top scum read early on.
3) when he did replace in, he came out with one or 2 lurkery prod dodge posts which didnt look great.
3) Then he lurked.
All of which added up to the scum read.
However, once he started posting more, he seemed much more honest - that thing about his wallet getting stolen sounded honest.
So he is probably town.

I appreciate it's your job to make mountains out of molehills, but people change their reads the WHOLE time in mafia - you'll have to do better than this

Moz I'm trying to support you on cult wagon here and you make this scummy flip flop explanation on the Zulfy slot. You read him as probably town now? wtf? Move that down to null until he is pushing something.

[Lucky2u]

@ Luca I learned a hard lesson from a game recently that conf town doesnt mean infallible. So I'm trying to keep an open mind here. Cult has been my instinct read here for awhile, partially in part because of the way they fight back so much against you to the point of it being an attempt to discredit and still spread doubt that you might be scum.

Woah, there's a massive disconnect between those two sentences. Like, the central ideas of those two sentences are

completely

in opposition.

explain?

[Lucky2u]

First, you talk about how you're placing less confidence in conftowns. Then, you say you suspect me because of my efforts to get people to place less confidence in conftowns.

Ah, I see. That's not what I meant, but I can see it read that way. The first statement is that I'm trying not to have blind confidence in conf town reads, not their conf status. The second statement was explaining how I am scum reading you for trying to undermine Luca's conf town status. Two different things

[Lucky2u]

Lucky, what are your thoughts on LaserGuy?

Do you agree/disagree with the points I made against him?

I think some of your points can be conf bias like the assumption that he was baiting athena with 426 (and that point only works if Laser is scum and athena is not so it's taking an extra leap there). 435 is not scummy in and of itself, and you again make a larger than I'm comfortable leap in the assumption of motivation. The scummiest things he's done was to paint the interactions we had as some kind of scum theater and try to push a PL on Zulfy. For that alone I can leave him at lean scum. I'd rather have Athena though.

[Lucky2u]

Lucky, Athena isn't the only one to have undermined my 'conf town status'.

I didn't say she was, this one just feels right.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: laserguy

fine, I guess I'm back to sheeping then.

[Lucky2u]

Eh, thinking about it... With Luca being a highly unlikely scum to the point of conf town, and us getting scum day 1 we can just throw darts at the board and probably still get... (Wait for it)... Lucky... ... enough times to win.

[Lucky2u]

pretty much forgot Cy was in the game.

So we can move on to Athena?

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Impede

This or CoA would be a good lynch today.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Impede

This or CoA would be a good lynch today.

Why?

Sorry, I know I said I'd wait, but this is nagging.

Lucky never answered your question. Did you expect to get an answer? If you suspect him of being scum, why sheep his vote before he states his rationale? You must have your own rationale, right?

You say this like I was never going to answer or posted without answering....

Impede has flip flopped on several reads. He defended ucv. He has used "fine just Lynch me" statements a few times. He words things in a way that misrepresent the people he is talking about. I'm on mobile, so I hate quoting the examples of all this but I can do so when I get home if someone disagrees with any of that. Impede or CoA.

[Lucky2u]

Oh and I forgot he voted for zulfy and cy yesterday. As I've stated, I'm against the low activity PL. However if they keep prod dodging instead of replacing out, I'll concede to it being scum motivated.

[Lucky2u]

Going to respond to Moz because his post spam was far more interesting...

Moz this post spam is unacceptable. By all means question my Impede read, but this is reeking of a chainsaw defense. Open up the spoiler tag to see my responses.

Spoiler:

what zaraki, zulfy or Cy? none of those guys have shown ANY interest in finding scum. How can you prefer Imped eover them, when Impede at least shows commitment to the game/scum hunting.

I have little interest in pushing Zulfy or Cy for their low activity yet. I will revisit this if they are prod dodging their way to another few days. Why is Zaraki in this pool of 3? Are you implying they are as inactive as the other 2 or just that they post alot of null info. Zaraki is rather passive, but they are letting their reads be known and taking stances. It's not exactly a super town slot, but I'm not reading a scum agenda yet.

Oh and I forgot he voted for zulfy and cy yesterday. As I've stated, I'm against the low activity PL.

points in his favour, surely! why are you against the low activity PL? It's NOT just a PL - all of those guys have a decent chance of flipping scum.

Definitely not points in his favor. Cy maybe flips scum out of those 2. It's still a policy lynch though when he has 11 posts. I hate those.

Let's lynch comm or cy,

you still up for Cy?

No.

This is the most obvious scum wagon I've ever seen. We are lynching the guy that has posted basically nothing? I get policy lynches and all but we can't find a single candidate better then this? Everyone else on Luca's lynch pool is so much better and more of a quality lynch then the guy that gets us nothing.

DEAR FUTURE MOZ THIS IS A TOWN POST, lUCKY IS TOWN!

Dear Past Moz, dont be a dick, maybe Lucky was defending his scum buddy?? This isnt nec a town post.

I disagreed with the way you expressed your town view of me and now I am highly suspicious of the way you flipped on me now. This going back to "correct yourself" on a town read seems sketchy. It's also slightly conf bias isn't it? You want to read me as scum now, so you are changing your opinion of something you initially read as town.

ok feel i'm going a bot schizo, tim efo rme to shut the fuck up now.
Certainly Luckys last fe wpposts have worried me a bit.
My town pool is Now Lucca and Sesq

...but not Impede?

Zaraki, Zulfy and Lucky?

I mean, maybe Lucky is so against the low activity "PL" because he didn't want his scum buddy Zulfy lynched?

It's fine to have scumspects and theories. It's scummy to throw in the question mark like you want approval to think these people are scum and to think your theory is valid.

yeah impede is town. Thaty whole post is someone telling the truth.
"yeah, i'd do it again" - that ain't coming from scum.

LOL, I hope saying "yeah I'd do it again" is not all it takes to fool you as town.

[Lucky2u]

You say this like I was never going to answer or posted without answering....

No, I said it like you didn't answer and Luca proceeded to vote me anyway.

Impede has flip flopped on several reads.

Do you think this is a scumtell?

He defended ucv.

I hardly defended him. But I did challenge Luca's meta read of him. I definitely wasn't the only one, and I see that as part of town's due diligence to avoid MLs. I hopped on once I was relatively satisfied.

He has used "fine just Lynch me" statements a few times.

This is NAI unless you have meta to back it up (which you don't).

He words things in a way that misrepresent the people he is talking about.

This is actually a HUGE scumtell and I applaud you for using it. However, you do not have any examples because I have never done this (at least not intentionally).

Oh and I forgot he voted for zulfy and cy yesterday. As I've stated, I'm against the low activity PL. However if they keep prod dodging instead of replacing out, I'll concede to it being scum motivated.

Yeah, I'd do it again too.

1. That makes sense.

2. Yes, I do.

3. from my point of view, you hopped on once you saw how strong the wagon was and wanted to be seen as town for it.

4. Not for me. I see it as a scum tell unless you have the meta to make it null. You don't. So it's a scum tell. I'd rather not argue this point to much because this is just more game theory.

5. I'm not sure what the point is of me finding the examples now if you are just going add "at least not intentionally" to your challenge and say that any example I come up with was an accident.

6. It's low hanging fruit. Not something to be proud of.

I want to vote Lucky because of how imbecilic that rationale was, but I feel like I'm just annoyed and it would be an OMGUS, so I'll hold off until I can deep dive him a bit.

pedit: @Moz - We won't know unless we see a flip. That's pretty speculative tbh. But "I'm against PLs" is a great way to look towny while defending a scumbuddy.

At this point it would be OMGUS if you only vote me for my case on you. However you can totally justify it if you find some non-you involved reasons to vote me. What you got?

[Lucky2u]

You need to respond to me, and endeavor to type something meaningful.

All of your arguments are based on principal or

nothing at all

. The items you are declaring as scumtells are at BEST unreliable, and at worst, townleaning.

Your responses when questioned about your reads/arguments feel utterly fabricated. You are literally trying to milk scumreads out of relatively innocuous or outright

towny

content. Why?

VOTE: Lucky

I'm interested to see what others think about this.

Chill out, I wasn't ignoring you, I was responding to Moz first.

[Lucky2u]

I didn't even get a post edit warning on my post responding to you since we seemingly posted at the same time, but as with that post, I am now calling you out on OMGUS.

Also you vote post is alot of words but what did you even say that was specific to me? Like I can copy paste that post and put in anyones name and it's just as meaningful.

[Lucky2u]

I need to get a proper post in here, but I won't have time until tonight. Prod dodge until then.

[Lucky2u]

ok, back at home. I have some posts to make here

[Lucky2u]

I'm getting really confused about moz. He's flip-flopping on my alignment a lot, and just fencing on a lot of things.

I still scumread.

His thought process is hard to follow and he keeps throwing out names in groups:

Spoiler:

Gut feeling is

Cult, Cy and Zaraki

scum team.
Zulfy TOO shambolic for scum??!!

reckon as long as we lynch in

Cult, Zaraki, Zulfy or Cyfly

we have 75% hitting scum.

Votecount 3.21

Lucky2u(3)

~ Impede, CommKnight, Luca Blight

Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez(1)

~ mozamis

Impede(1)

~ Lucky2u


Not Voting (5): Zulfy, cytheflyguy, CultOfAthena, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez, Sesq

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2017-12-13 22:35:00)

SCUM NOT VOTING?- seems likely, they all need to pounce to get the mislynch? so

3 scum in Zulfy, CY, Cult, Zaraki.

I rule out Sesq, who i thought was voting Cult anyway.

Zaraki, Zulfy and Lucky?

what

zaraki, zulfy or Cy

? none of those guys have shown ANY interest in finding scum. How can you prefer Imped eover them, when Impede at least shows commitment to the game/scum hunting.

cult, zaraki and cy.

Game over.

but your name is in every group. This could be some kind of scum misdirection effort. I can't figure it out. However I can say that Moz definitely seems like he is consistant on wanting to lynch you Zaraki.

[Lucky2u]

I don't know for sure they are scum arguing, it's just a feeling I got.

If it was solely up to me i'd probably be lynching Zaraki today, but I've lost the will to take control of the lynches now.

I'm not convinced on Lucky either way, but I think he's a reasonable lynch option for today.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lucky

Some input from Athena would be nice.

Two things to say here.

1. Don't get complacent as (basically) conf town. I just went through a game where two masons did this and we lost, and I put it heavily on them.

2. If you don't feel convinced about my wagon, get off it. This isn't self preservation, this is best strategy and what I told the masons in the above mentioned game when I almost got lynched by them. You can't deny your position, and by you lazily joining a wagon early you are robbing town of a chance to read the people that have to jump on justify themselves when I flip green. I don't mind dying, I just want town to learn the right lessons from it.

[Lucky2u]

Meanwhile... I'm going to do a fun little game.

CommKnight
ArchwingZulfy
cytheflyguy
Lucky2u
Luca Blight
CultOfAthena
mozamis
Impede
Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez
Sesq

^ Remaining player list, 3 scum alive with the rest being VTs.

CommKnight - Town
ArchwingZulfy
cytheflyguy
Lucky2u
Luca Blight - Town
CultOfAthena
mozamis
Impede
Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez
Sesq

^ So if we can cross Luca and me off as town. (saying IF here). Then we have 2 lock-town. We need at least 2 more townies out of the remaining to basically be able to hard-lynch until we get it right.

If we manage to lynch scum, then we need one more town, if we managed to lynch two, then we just need Luca and myself to be locked in somehow.

Of course I'm saying this from my PoV. Some people might suspect me still. But what I'm pushing at, is we can potentially lock out scum from being able to win if we're able to properly town-hunt and keep scum out of the block completely. We got 3 lynches until we're at LYLO right now, so essentially we need to pick 7 people to keep alive and then it'd be 4 town vs 3 scum if we're wrong about the next 3 lynches. Then it'd be more serious scum-hunting being involved.

But each correct lynch we get buys us an additional mislynch breather room here. So if we were to pick 3 people and decide to lynch them bang, bang, bang. If 1-2 of them are scum, then we just bought ourself 1-2 more additional wiggle room for being wrong.

Anyway, people probably should know this already, but basically what I'm getting at, is we need to pick our TRs to reach the LYLO situations if we're wrong about our SRs. If that makes sense?

I read this a couple times before I realized that this whole post could be summed up as "TL;DR - We should play mafia. "

[Lucky2u]

Impede has flip flopped on several reads. He defended ucv. He has used "fine just Lynch me" statements a few times. He words things in a way that misrepresent the people he is talking about. I'm on mobile, so I hate quoting the examples of all this

but I can do so when I get home if someone disagrees with any of that.

Impede or CoA.

Did you ever get around to this?

If you notice the qualifier in that statement "if" was never activated so I never felt the need.

Things have happened since then. I still don't know why casing Impede got me such bad backlash, but whatever. Impede's responses were not quite as scummy as I would have hoped to help me enforce this wagon, so I'm back off it. Cult is fine for today. Perhaps shouldn't have got distracted from this to begin with.

VOTE: CoA

[Lucky2u]

ooo posts to read

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Zulfy it is then....

[Lucky2u]

Kind of lazy here atm. We got Zulfy, and I'm more of a lynch because obvscum was obvscum? My main point in not lynching him was that it was pretty much PL with his activity level. I stand by that, I don't do PL. I even mentioned that if he kept delaying with pointless posts that we should lynch him. He did pretty much what I said I'd lynch him for.

eh.... at this point how does town lose this? I feel like arguing against my lynch is just justifying why I should be one of the town that end games for the victory. A win is a win. Zaraki vs me Luca? ok let's do this!

VOTE: Zaraki

For a quicker victory, let's not lynch Lucky!

[Lucky2u]

Yes, you've quoted my exact reasoning why I ended up for voting zulfy. I said I'd do something and I did it.

[Lucky2u]

Was that directed at me impede?

[Lucky2u]

No objection on mafia thread

[Lucky2u]

Good job Cy! You did a great job making it that far.

[Lucky2u]

Spoiler alert on scum chat, there is not much in it. Not sure why mod is still holding it back.