Mini 1955: Perpetual MYLO III - Game Over!

[Wickedestjr]

I was involved in the first two runs of this setup. The most unique thing is the betrayal mechanic when mis-lynches happen.

In this particular game, quick-hammering is safe for scum because they get a point and the team can just sacrifice whoever it was that cast the hammer vote. That actually happened in the first game. So the normal logic of "scum won't quick hammer because we'll lynch them tomorrow" just doesn't work here. L-1 voting a townie is actually very dangerous.

Vote: kunkstar7

It's been a while

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Not_Mafia

Posting elsewhere

[Wickedestjr]

Hey everyone,

I've actually just figured out the entire scum team. Would anyone like to take a guess before I share my discoveries?

Gun to head, what are your initial impressions so far? We'll see who has the best reads on page 2.

[Wickedestjr]

Can we not do useless gambits like this that lead us no where at all ty

This game is progressing at an alarmingly slow pace. And if everyone does nothing, then nothing is going to happen. Keep in mind that almost half of the people here are fine with that

perpetuating

. What do you propose instead?

Unvote. Vote: Maki Harukawa

Don't see any town intent behind your post.

[Wickedestjr]

Couple things:

1. Before I left (granted, this was a while ago, but still, I'm assuming it applies here), games always progressed very slowly. Last game I was involved with was a modded game and I sent out far more prods than I thought I'd need to. It appears to just be the state of the forum now.

First of all, my experience has been different. I can't remember being part of a game that felt this tumbleweed-ish right after the game started; I found this very surprising (luckily it's picking up now). Secondly, even if you are right about this, I don't see why it matters. We have a deadline, so we should be trying to get out of RVS as soon as we can - doesn't matter what other games are doing.

2. For you to vote someone who called you out on a terrible idea shows that you're defensive. Any other game, and I'd vote you. But I don't feel like carelessly spreading a vote.

There is so much wrong with this.
*It's okay to be defensive if the 'attack' is scummy. (You kind of ignored my reason for voting her and just wrote it off as defensiveness)
*Not sure that defensiveness is a scum tell anyway. People should defend themselves.
*As long as nobody gets put at L-1 prematurely, then we're good. No need for so much caution.

@Mod: Wicked mentioned it earlier, and I'm also curious. Are there any restrictions on self-votes?

Players can self-vote, but are cautioned to play to their win condition.

Naturally. Thanks for the clarification.

Alright, so there we have it. Town seems to be at a much larger disadvantage than I had originally anticipated.

Why is town's inability to self-vote making this a greater disadvantage? Or is that a non-sequitur?

[Wickedestjr]

Pretty ironic that my 'gambit that will lead us nowhere' is the one thing that's starting to lead us somewhere

[Wickedestjr]

Any other game, and I'd vote you.

And anyways, I think that he's lynchbait, ergo a poor player, more than scum.

So I'm a 'poor' player and I'm lynch-bait, but you would have voted me if this were a regular game? That doesn't make sense.

[Wickedestjr]

Diamond, do you think I was doing a gambit? Or do you think I am town that honestly believed I had figured out all five scum? Or something else?

PEdit: Gambit didn't lead us anywhere. The conversation about said gambit did.

Right and that conversation would have still magically happened without me doing the gambit in the first place.

The point I'm trying to make is that Maki was wrong to try and shut-down my 'gambit'. If I hadn't made that post, we wouldn't have anything to talk about right now.

[Wickedestjr]

pedit: speaking of, UC is town.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

[Wickedestjr]

This part:

#2-HOW THE HOLY FUCK! do you know how freaking early it is in the game. How the hell could you all ready know? unless your scum trying to get townie miss lynched!

Seems like a genuine reaction from someone with his amount of experience.

[Wickedestjr]

This part:

#2-HOW THE HOLY FUCK! do you know how freaking early it is in the game. How the hell could you all ready know? unless your scum trying to get townie miss lynched!

Seems like a genuine reaction from someone with his amount of experience.

and your an asshole. got it....thanks.....moving on.....

Woahhh. You joined the site a month ago, man. Are you more experienced than your join date indicates? That wasn't meant to be insulting/demeaning in any way.

Can we not do useless gambits like this that lead us no where at all ty

You didn't know all mafia you just said you did for no reason

and I didn't feel the need to sit here and go "oh my god I wonder who it could be" when that would just slow the day down and be like "well what now"

So first you say I made the post as a gambit. Now you're saying I did it for no reason. Which is it?

If you are town and you really thought that I was doing a gambit, then I still don't see why you felt the need to try shutting it down. There was absolutely no discussion happening at that point, so to say that my gambit was getting in the way of something or slowing down the game is just unreasonable.

This part:

#2-HOW THE HOLY FUCK! do you know how freaking early it is in the game. How the hell could you all ready know? unless your scum trying to get townie miss lynched!

Seems like a genuine reaction from someone with his amount of experience.

i agree it's genuine, but inexperienced scum could think this too. thanks for the answer, though.

Fair point. I suppose it came across as shock and amazement more than fear. Why did you town read him?

[Wickedestjr]

Any other game, and I'd vote you.

And anyways, I think that he's lynchbait, ergo a poor player, more than scum.

So I'm a 'poor' player and I'm lynch-bait, but you would have voted me if this were a regular game? That doesn't make sense.

wrong reaction

Is there a problem with me voting Maki instead, who you also suspect of being wolfy?

I think right now that list has 3-4 wolves a vast majority of the time
(i don't think it's ever the full team though)

if I'm right, wolves

have to oppose it

yes, there is some wine

but opening the cask was always a necessary step for the game

This seems like something you shouldn't have explained until after people had had a chance to react. The WIFOM is stronger now.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: DiamondSentinel

-Contradicted himself by saying I'm a poor player/lynchbait but also that he'd have voted me if this were a regular game.
-Don't like how he discredited my gambit or my vote for Maki.
-Ignoring my questions in 50-51.
-His exchange with acid phoenix on page 4 is just weird. Diamond, what are you trying to do there? Are you trying to say that you think acid is scum?

And I think his actions are suspicious regardless of Maki's alignment, but I could definitely see him and Maki being scum together.

[Wickedestjr]

This seems like something you shouldn't have explained until after people had had a chance to react. The WIFOM is stronger now.

well if lycan didnt ask I wouldn't have had to

>_>

*spends five minutes looking for the most appropriate image response*

Spoiler: Ah here it is:

All of Lycan's questions need to be answered immediately?

That reminds me. I need to answer this one. @Lycan- if you were a dentist, you would probably pull one of my

wisdom teeth

because I still have them.

[Wickedestjr]

-Contradicted himself by saying I'm a poor player/lynchbait but also that he'd have voted me if this were a regular game.

I always vote lynchbait D1. D1 rarely gets a decent lynch anyways, so might as well thin the stupidity in the thread D1. I don't really feel like that's what we should do here, though.

Oh good strategy. That's too bad that we can't do that in this game because my stupidity is just a huge liability in every game that I join.

If you want me to vote you, I can do that.

What the?

-Ignoring my questions in 50-51.

What question?

The ones in posts 50-51. With the question marks.

Yes, acid is quite obviously scum. As for why I'm not voting him in the first place? Eh, good point.

VOTE: acid

Huh. You think acid is quite obviously scum but you just forgot to mention that and neglected to vote for him until now? Why is he quite obviously scum?

[Wickedestjr]

acid and diamond look like they will be the prime lynchbait

Why are you town reading Diamond?

idk. i haven't seen you in any other game and you introduce yourself by posting this massive insult that is barely game related.....

Please tell me what the massive insult was.

[Wickedestjr]

I have said that acid is scummy before.

Really, where?

As for why? I can't point it out. He's just scummy.

That's helpful.

[Wickedestjr]

50-51 isn't a question. It's a statement that my opinion doesn't make sense. Dear lord, use proper reason for once.

Oh you're right. There are no questions in posts 50-51:

Any other game, and I'd vote you.

And anyways, I think that he's lynchbait, ergo a poor player, more than scum.

So I'm a 'poor' player and I'm lynch-bait, but you would have voted me if this were a regular game

?

That doesn't make sense.

Diamond, do you think I was doing a gambit

?

Or do you think I am town that honestly believed I had figured out all five scum

?

Or something else

?

PEdit: Gambit didn't lead us anywhere. The conversation about said gambit did.

Right and that conversation would have still magically happened without me doing the gambit in the first place.

The point I'm trying to make is that Maki was wrong to try and shut-down my 'gambit'. If I hadn't made that post, we wouldn't have anything to talk about right now.

[Wickedestjr]

Gambit? I don't believe it for a second

Well it

was

a gambit. Why is that hard to believe? If I honestly believed that I figured out all five scum then I probably would have revealed those names by now.

Town that honestly believe you had figured out all scum? Sure, I'll buy that

Yeah I don't believe you.

[Wickedestjr]

Why are you town reading Diamond?

looks like town diamond

You believe it is within his town meta for him to have a strong scum read on someone but forget to vote for them

and

not be capable of giving any reasons? For six pages in, I feel pretty strongly about him being scum.

Fwiw, I also feel like he was being deliberately difficult with me during our conversation today. No idea how he didn't notice that I asked him questions in 50-51. And the "If you want me to vote you I can do that" doesn't seem like something town should or would say. And his answers in 133 are unrealistic too.


If we're going to discuss my meta, then these town games of mine are worth checking out:
viewtopic.php?p=5941724#p5941724
viewtopic.php?p=2218144#p2218144

[Wickedestjr]

So first you say I made the post as a gambit. Now you're saying I did it for no reason. Which is it?

If you are town and you really thought that I was doing a gambit, then I still don't see why you felt the need to try shutting it down. There was absolutely no discussion happening at that point, so to say that my gambit was getting in the way of something or slowing down the game is just unreasonable.

You were doing a useless gambit for no reason it's not one of the 2 it's the same. As I already said it was very clear you were doing a useless gambit and normally if you did this on page 20/30 (as I already said) this would be fine but you're doing it on page 2 where people have 0-5 posts you don't know all the scum nor do any other townies it's just asking for random names at that point and doesn't help what so ever. That's why I shut it down.

At this point I can't tell if you are pretending to not understand what I'm saying or if you actually don't see what I was attempting there.

A gambit is... "a device, action, or opening remark, typically one entailing a degree of risk, that is calculated

to gain an advantage

."

So if you really think it was a gambit, then it doesn't make sense for you to also believe it had no purpose. How can you say "it was a useless gambit for no reason" ? The desired 'advantage' in this case was that it would cause serious discussion to begin.

Fwiw, it worked out very well the last time that I did it: discussion started and I correctly scum read 2 out of 3 scum shortly after doing it.

[Wickedestjr]

Town that honestly believe you had figured out all scum? Sure, I'll buy that

Yeah I don't believe you.

You don't believe me that I think you're being incompetent here?

Ever heard of "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity"? Doesn't apply perfectly, but this is the general thought.

Anyways, my belief here is more that you are just flat out wrong rather than scum.

Because if I was really "town that honestly believed that I had figured out all the scum", then I would have revealed those reads at some point instead of now calling it a gambit. Also, I have made this exact play as town before and linked the game where I did it. So you're just wrong to say there's no way it's a gambit.

And I have no idea why you've voted for me.

[Wickedestjr]

dont care about games i wasn't in

C'mon man. I literally linked to the exact posts. It would take you 30 seconds to check those. Lazy. Or do you not care about actually sorting me?

and yes, ds can do that as town - evidently you arent familiar with him and you think hes pushable lynchbait

I'm familiar with DS and, based on my experience, I believe that he would do suspicious-looking things as either alignment - that doesn't mean he should always be un-lynchable. He still draws scum 5/12 of the time and I've explained why I think he is here, so this is a lame way to undermine the wagon. His behavior surrounding his acid phoenix read is the scummiest thing that's happened in this thread and, even for someone with a play style like his, I can't see it being town.

How would you expect him to behave here as scum?

kunk trying to get his buddy wicked townread i see

Okay so you are scum reading me now. What changed since you called me your weakest town read?

I didnt recall that he was called out, that just makes the overexplaining scummier

The biggest reason I'm voting Diamond is for something that happened after I was 'called out'. And that post looks like overexplaining because virtually nobody else does

any explaining

. Sue me for trying to actually persuade people.

[Wickedestjr]

Can be lynched:

UC Voyager
Carcalilly
Not_Mafia
Brian Skies
Maki

Don't like anything coming from these, mostly from the fact that their contributions are nonexistent. Brian Skies willingness to lynch "lynchbait" doesn't really mesh with his concerns about lining up lynchpaths.

Are you scum reading any of the people that

are

contributing?

[Wickedestjr]

why are people making serious reads over arguing about word definitions

Wrong.

question to the people arguing against the list

do you actually believe the list has 3 town in it or just arguing on principlr

The problem with your idea is that it is not relying on the evidence that future flips will provide. That's going to be huge.

[Wickedestjr]

explain the "gambit" argument then

The point of my argument wasn't to define a gambit. I felt like it was contradictory for Maki to call it both a gambit and an action that I did for 'no reason' because a gambit, by definition, is something done with a specific purpose in mind. That's the point that I was making.

part 2 is fair but not pointing it out until AFTER more people reacted would be nice

but

I can't talk about things like that can i

Sorry. I obviously don't know you very well.

[Wickedestjr]

and yes, ds can do that as town - evidently you arent familiar with him and you think hes pushable lynchbait

I'm familiar with DS and, based on my experience, I believe that he would do suspicious-looking things as either alignment - that doesn't mean he should always be un-lynchable. He still draws scum 5/12 of the time and I've explained why I think he is here, so this is a lame way to undermine the wagon. His behavior surrounding his acid phoenix read is the scummiest thing that's happened in this thread and, even for someone with a play style like his, I can't see it being town.

How would you expect him to behave here as scum?

Familiar as in one game, in which I was a SK/3P?

Yeah, that's just flat out not-true. You haven't seen my town game, you haven't even seen my mafia game.

Next time you lie like that, at least make sure that it's not something that's checkable by a simple ISO

Familiar as in this isn't my first game with you.

I never said that I had seen your town game or mafia game. So what am I lying about? Maybe read my post again.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm impressed by your ability to fit so many exaggerations into one line. Not even gonna bother with debating things with you anymore, though.

It is becoming increasingly clear that you are scum and I don't trust Wisdom for his defending you.

Your vote for me doesn't make any sense considering:
-you were town reading me like 24 hours ago
-you think I'm stupid
-you were voting acidphoenix before, who was 'quite obviously scum' even though you couldn't provide a reason as to why

Now you're voting me (which implies I'm more than 'quite obviously scum') even though you were reading me as stupid town not too long ago. And you still are unable to explain your vote for me, even when people asked. Instead you're continuing to twist my words and distort everything.

Let's also put it this way: even if you are town, (which is a 10-15% chance in my mind), I'm terrified by the prospect that I would have to rely on you at some point two or three days from now. Because the way this setup works, all of the town-aligned players are going to have to be on the same page when we get to the

actual

MyLo - meaning it only takes one townie to screw it all up. If you are town, then you have been consistently unreasonable.

TL;DR - I don't foresee myself changing my vote today unless something really special happens between now and deadline.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't understand that Wisdom. I could accept you thinking DS is town, but it doesn't make sense for you to be so confident, that I'm scum for attacking him. I've justified my position and you've done nothing to help me see that I'm wrong other than say "DS is lynchbait" which is a shallow critique. Is DS only lynchbaity as town? How does he play as scum, if this isn't it?

C'mon man. I literally linked to the exact posts. It would take you 30 seconds to check those. Lazy. Or do you not care about actually sorting me?

Reading posts out of context does nothing for me

The posts I linked are both on page 1. There's zero context.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: I'm V/LA Friday through Sunday. Will be limited to phone posting.

[Wickedestjr]

Going to VOTE: Wicked for now, for being in the trash heap.

Being in the 'trash heap' meaning I answered the dentist question too late? I have no idea how you expect a question like that to be helpful considering how far away from the game it is. Nor do I understand how I was spoiled before answering that question.

Against: that early macho act about being in a previous game/pointing out an obvious quirk.

What are you trying to say here? It's not clear to me.

177 reads like scumstration - it's a hilariously disingenuous question.

kunkstar's list of lynchable people only consists of the five least-contributing players. What's concerning is the fact that I'm the only one who asked him about it. Because that's either very lazy or demonstrates a true lack of interest in sorting those who are contributing.

The following post does no favors either, going back to establishing a role of authority, and, after plainly shutting down Acid, for an otherwise perfectly valid reason, when they themselves had previously probed a similar possibility earlier on!

What are you trying to say here? It's not clear to me.

[Wickedestjr]

You were already voting me.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not really sure what to do here. Has the site meta changed in the last year and a half, so now people just don't give reasons for their votes? If so, then that just sucks. Or are people in so many other games that they just don't care about this one? I have explained my vote for Diamond and I've talked about why all the points against me are invalid, yet the votes all remain.

The only point I can add to defend myself is that it doesn't make sense to scum read me for attacking Diamond when I am not the only person attacking him. Basically that's the equivalent of saying "I can believe that Brian and acid think Diamond is scum, but there's NO WAY Wicked could think Diamond is scum". Doesn't make sense to me, unless you scum read all three of us, but I don't think anyone is.

I definitely feel that my bandwagon is being pushed by scum and am getting the impression that the town-aligned players just don't want to work together this game. Scum are going to easily win if town aren't willing to discuss reads or consolidate. For that reason I am actually going to switch my vote to hopefully save myself if people are seriously not interested in lynching Diamond.

Unvote. Vote: kunkstar7

even though he's one of the few people not supporting my bandwagon. I have trouble seeing 154 come from town, though. I can understand struggling to come up with scum reads, but giving your stamp of approval for five different lynches that you are not confident in seems equivalent to handing scum a mis-lynch unless

all five

of those players are scum, which they (most likely) aren't. Mis-lynches are especially bad in this setup and I don't want to give up any.

[Wickedestjr]

Looking at my own bandwagon, it seems pretty obvious that this is a scum-powered/mis-lynch bandwagon. I'm at L-2 and the constituents of my bandwagon are two people that still don't believe I was making a play on page 2, another person who is exhibiting blatant laziness, another person who is voting me for something about a trash heap among other bad reasons, and Not_Mafia who appears to be compromise voting. I would put money on two or three scum being in that group.

I feel the best about the vote from UCV. Posts 163-164 seem like a town tell for UCV. He's trying to take credit for 'guessing I was scum a while ago'. Seems unlikely he would do that as scum for a known mis-lynch.

Lycanfire's vote seems like the worst, after Diamond's. He ignores the criticisms that I've gotten from Diamond/Wisdom but still manages to join the wagon for his own (weak) reasons. It feels like he's just trying to come up with his own justification for voting me to avoid being attacked for opportunism, rather than genuinely finding me more suspicious than anyone else.

Wisdom of all people should know that I have a pretty capable scum game (I almost single-handedly won the scum game that he linked) and wouldn't just resort to pushing 'easy lynch-bait' to get through the day. If I

was

just interested in going after an easy target, then I could have chosen UCV who has contributed about as much as Diamond, but he is an easy target that looks like town as opposed to Diamond who is probably scum. I repeat: just because someone is an easier target doesn't mean they are always town. This is one of the major holes in Wisdom's logic. I could be biased by frustration with Wisdom's laziness, but I still don't like his vote for me.

So I would say the scum on my wagon are Diamond, Lycanfire and maybe one of {Wisdom, Not_Mafia}.

[Wickedestjr]

My page nine guess for the team would be something like {Diamond, Lycanfire, kunkstar7, Wisdom, acidphoenix}

[Wickedestjr]

all i see in wicked walls is "boohoohoo i shouldnt be scumread but i am"
aka scum frustration

Right because there was just so much emotion oozing out of those posts.

And are you implying 'scum caught for the wrong reasons' ?

[Wickedestjr]

Yes I do. Do you not?

[Wickedestjr]

Your list included only players who were hardly contributing/doing anything. Not_Mafia's list includes acid and I who are two of the more active players. In general, it feels like he put more thought into his list. Also, another difference is that you called your list "Can be lynched" which implies that you would be okay with any of those five players being lynched. I cannot assume the same for Not_Mafia's list. E.g. he might only support a lynch on his top two or three options.

Also, I find it bothersome that our lists are 100% different.

[Wickedestjr]

UC Voyager

, what do you think of post 154? Particularly, the bottom half where he gives his "Can be lynched" list?

Not_Mafia

, why do you suspect me more than kunkstar?

[Wickedestjr]

I voted for him largely because of that post. And I talked about it in post 204 and last paragraph of 213.

[Wickedestjr]

I feel like 178 is a poor let down with regards to what acidphoenix is suggesting. It's a continuation of your post 15 and I feel like you're more concerned with establishing yourself as a person that will direct the game state opposed to actively take it and lead it.

Why was that a poor let down? Putting someone at L-1 prematurely (what I warned against in 15) and acid's idea were both bad ideas. I didn't know that acid was reaction testing. Why is it an issue/scumtell for me to direct the game state away from bad ideas? I don't see your point here.

Yes, we all get that you didn't like it. Is his list that scummy, and if you truly feel like it is, is that your home run argument on scum? Is Kunk so lockscum at that point for you that rather than get town!Kunk in the game you disparage him

when you clearly have nothing better to post anyway

- see the above reference to your post 178.

I never said that my argument was a 'home run argument' or that Kunkstar was 'lock scum'. My vote for kunkstar is a compromise vote and I somewhat explained that in the third paragraph of the post where I voted him. The vote count had my 5-vote bandwagon and a series of one or two vote bandwagons. I realized that the Diamond-lynch wasn't happening, so I decided to vote someone else. kunkstar is someone that I believe has a reasonable chance of flipping scum and there's more interest in his lynch.

You talk down Kunk in the the previous post- 177!

What a drag on the game state.

I wasn't talking down to kunkstar - or at least my question wasn't supposed to come across that way. If there's any intentional "talking down" to someone, your bolded comments feel that way to me.

I don't have any solid scumreads on anyone else just yet.

This is town.

In a vacuum, I would agree that a comment like that is a town tell. But I dislike the way he has handled this.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't recall referencing any of your criticisms at all, you do not ask me to reply in kind in any way, and, frankly, I view them both as town and openly stated my reads on both. Why should I entertain your thoughts on my townreads if you don't care to have me justify my reads any further? If I'm superscum getting hunted like a Baratheon here, my stances on everyone is important to have on paper. I have no incentive to do any of this as it is. Another disingenuous question.

It's not an inherent issue that you ignored Wisdom/Diamond's criticisms towards me. I only mentioned that as part of a larger point.

To repeat: I found it disingenuous that you just happened to determine I was your top suspect for completely different reasons from Wisdom/Diamond's and didn't have anything to say about my 'gambit' or my vote for Diamond. As I said in that post, "It feels like he's just trying to come up with his own justification for voting me to avoid being attacked for opportunism, rather than genuinely finding me more suspicious than anyone else."

You seem to have an inkling that certain players are town and don't want to put in the work. You clearly have some people in mind. Who's town?

I gave a town read on UCV and a page 9 guess for the whole scum team. I'm not the person to talk to about 'not putting in the work' this game.

Can you tell me what you meant by Diamond being scummy regardless of Maki's alignment?

I'm not sure how to explain that any better than I did in post 105. I had a reason for thinking that Maki/Diamond could be connected, but wanted to clarify that Diamond's actions were suspicious even if Maki is town.

Can you explanation your progression on going after Kunkstar over either of those- Maki in particular drops off the face of the earth for you quite early, while you're content to hiss scum from a distance with Diamond.

I explained my kunkstar vote in multiple posts. See 213 and 304 for why I voted him instead of Diamond.

Maki "shutting down my gambit" is the only thing that has bothered me about her so far. It was vote-worthy on page 2 but by this point, it's not something I really care about anymore.

Maki seems to let bygones be bygones immediately after you chastise Kunk in her post 180 - but you do not respond and your Kunk vote only materializes in 213. What gives?

My conversation with Maki doesn't have anything to do with Kunkstar. I was probably going to drop that inquiry soon if Maki hadn't. We basically "agreed to disagree" and it was never a strong enough issue for me to continue harping on.

[Wickedestjr]

[@Kunkstar] Are you scum reading any of the people that

are

contributing?

---

rather than get town!Kunk in the game you disparage him

You talk down Kunk in the the previous post- 177! What a drag on the game state.

after you chastise Kunk

I feel like you're resorting to a lot of misleading/exaggerative word choice over that post specifically. My question was not chastising kunkstar or talking down to him.

It was just a question.

You are severely misreading/misrepping the intention behind that. I've explained why kunkstar's list makes me suspect him.

It seriously bothers me that you're trying to paint me as a bully in this scenario.

[Wickedestjr]

Anyone up for lynching Lycan? I would honestly prefer that to the kunkstar lynch. His push for me feels seriously off. I don't think he's even reading my posts entirely because he's asking questions about specific comments that would be answered if he just

finished reading the sentence

.

[Wickedestjr]

More later. Need to step away and watch Survivor

[Wickedestjr]

The Fox News defence I see

Hey if you feel like there's something misleading about my post, then I'm not going to stop you from explaining why.

And you're undermining my attack towards Lycan. Do you still think he is scum?

[Wickedestjr]

seriously wicked jfc if you're town and have forum mafia experience you know fucking better than to think that one lazy readslist remotely justifies a tunnel, especially when you're saying you have confidence that 2+ scum are voting you and you think 3

Trust me, I would feel much better about lynching one of the scum on my wagon. But my vote for kunkstar is more than just "he made a lazy reads list". It's more based on his willingness to lynch any of those five players when he isn't confident in them being scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, another difference is that you called your list "Can be lynched" which implies that you would be okay with any of those five players being lynched. I cannot assume the same for Not_Mafia's list. E.g. he might only support a lynch on his top two or three options.

So I can see how my list can be taken in a negative way per your first point, so I concede that. This second point though is iffy to me though, since I think Not Mafia naming people scum is essentially giving his ok for lynch in the same way I did. If you think someone's scum then why would you not be willing to lynch them? I understand the idea of more certain reads than others but Not Mafia didn't give any hint towards that idea.

I disagree. For example, I threw out a scum team guess of {Diamond, Lycan, Wisdom, you, acid}. Within that group, I feel most suspicious of Diamond and Lycan, the rest are close to neutral. So even though my gun-to-head read is that Wisdom/you/acid are scum as well, I wouldn't be fully satisfied unless Diamond or Lycan got lynched today. And I would never say something along the lines of "let's just lynch one of these five players, please".

I know we're talking about Not_Mafia and not me, but it is my assumption that he would approach this the same way as I would, if he's town.

[Wickedestjr]

How about acid?

acid is a very slight scum lean. There are a few things that have bothered me like his post 57 and his second gambit. Not my preferred lynch, but I could get behind it if the support was there.

also, would you wagon Brian?

Only as an alternative to myself. I like every vote that he has cast so far and haven't really seen anything bothersome from him. You think he's scum?


P-edit: Patience buddy. I don't ignore questions - just had other things to answer.

[Wickedestjr]

i think this "willingness to lynch" point doesn't amount to much. it's common practice to PoE or put scumleans or even null reads into a 'will lynch' pile.

Eh... I can't remember ever seeing a reads list like that before. See my 322.

why is Wisdom scum?

I talked about this yesterday, I believe.

It is in large part based on my read of Diamond, still. He has expressed an unusual amount of confidence in Diamond being town - so confident that that seems to be a big part of his vote for me - even though he couldn't give any reasons besides "looks like town Diamond". He also criticized my vote by trying to paint Diamond as low hanging fruit, but there are several big holes in that thought process. Also, based on my past experience with Wisdom, I don't think it makes sense for him to be scum-reading me this strongly for my Diamond vote.

[Wickedestjr]

That's not why I'm scum reading him.

And I'm not voting for him.

[Wickedestjr]

It is in large part based on my read of Diamond, still. He has expressed an unusual amount of confidence in Diamond being town - so confident that that seems to be a big part of his vote for me - even though he couldn't give any reasons besides "looks like town Diamond". He also criticized my vote by trying to paint Diamond as low hanging fruit, but there are several big holes in that thought process. Also, based on my past experience with Wisdom, I don't think it makes sense for him to be scum-reading me this strongly for my Diamond vote.

This is crap, you have like two games with me and they were ages ago
Dont pretend you can read me

This is ridiculous Wisdom. I have a weak scum read on you and I'm the one who's pretending? How about you voting me on page 8 and saying "I've seen enough" ? You can't undermine your own experience with me and at the same time have so much confidence that I'm scum on page eight.

And you even tried using one of those games against me by referencing my gambit in a game from 'ages ago'.

You say those games were "ages ago" and not worth thinking about, yet you went out of your way to use one of them against me earlier!

Also this post reads as if you're considering my meta:

wicked is my weakest townread

could see this being scum wicked

And if so, you would have to be considering those games from 'ages ago'. Because you said you don't read games you're not in.

[Wickedestjr]

My read on Wisdom has nothing to do with his play in those games.

Yes, those games were a few years ago, but what he didn't mention is that I was scum in both of them. It bothers me that he's scum reading me for 'going after an easy target' when he's seen that I have a good scum game. There's no reason for me to resort to attacking Diamond so early on unless I actually believed that I had good points against him.

And now it bothers me that he's trying to undermine the relevance of those games when he referenced one of them earlier.

[Wickedestjr]

I noticed this on a reread:

Brian Skies
acidphoenix
DiamondSentinel
Chara
kunkstar7

Why are you all good at mafia?

What do you mean? Is this you asking what I bring to the table or something? Because I've never claimed that I was good at mafia.

This lack of confidence doesn't mesh with the un-explained strength of his reads on acid or myself.

[Wickedestjr]

Please stop quoting each other. We get the idea.

[Wickedestjr]

Wick are you from MU?

I don't know what that is, so I guess not.

The positive thing is
That after we lynch acid
Scum can only kill one of us, the other will stay alive to push the rest of them

This feels so fake... At best, it demonstrates over-confidence.

Do you usually say stuff like this? Are you an alt?

I'm starting a change.org petition to stop you two from joining the same game

Not our fault we can read each other instantly

Examples of this, please.

Hey bub lynch acid

Maybe I will if you stop asking me. But repeatedly saying: lynch acid lynch acid lynch acid lynch acid is doing nothing to sway anyone.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm starting a change.org petition to stop you two from joining the same game

Not our fault we can read each other instantly

Examples of this, please.

[Wickedestjr]

That's another site with mafia? Nothing you can show me?

I've never encountered two players who could read each other 'instantly'. That must suck whenever one of you are scum and the other is town.

[Wickedestjr]

Just a reminder:

I am now V/LA until Monday.

[Wickedestjr]

Michael:

The positive thing is
That after we lynch acid
Scum can only kill one of us, the other will stay alive to push the rest of them

This feels so fake... At best, it demonstrates over-confidence.

Do you usually say stuff like this? Are you an alt?

[Wickedestjr]

Michael, this too:

That's another site with mafia? Nothing you can show me?

I've never encountered two players who could read each other 'instantly'. That must suck whenever one of you are scum and the other is town.

Yeah, ask him ^^

[Wickedestjr]

How is wicked not lynched yet

Because there's no reason to lynch me. Every time I show that you're wrong about something, you just ignore me. And the other two people on my bandwagon are blatantly misreading so many of my posts.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey all,

I was planning to post today, but unfortunately losing power made that difficult. Should be back tomorrow...

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry everyone. Real life has been hectic. I'm almost caught up, so I won't have to replace out, but I don't have time to post tonight.

Back tomorrow morning

[Wickedestjr]

And I'm aware of the deadline btw

Less than 24 hours left

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: DiamondSentinel

I'm glad that this is finally getting more support again.

It's not reasonable to call him 'too scummy to be scum'. In particular, I'm voting him because a lot of his posts come across as fake/disingenuous and don't think that is explained by him having a weak town game. I will explain again.

In post 44 he implies lack of confidence in his abilities, but continues to have un-explained confidence in several of his posts later on:

-On page 4, his interaction with acid phoenix is really awkward - he is poking at him in a weird way and subtly implying that he is suspicious of acid, but without actually committing to suspecting/voting him. I ask him about this

and then

he states that acid is "quite obviously scum" and votes for him. Somehow despite lacking confidence in post 44, he has this unusual amount of confidence on page 5 but forgot to vote for him and is also not able to give any reasons for this read.

-He switches his vote to me, which implies that I am an even stronger scum read than acid. Again, he doesn't ever explicitly give his reasons for this vote. But a common theme in his posts is that he wholeheartedly doesn't believe that my play on page 2 was a play - he took it seriously even after I showed examples of me making that same move in the past. So his strong disbelief that I was making a 'gambit' looks fake.

-Again, weird confidence in a scum read towards Mulch in post 299. Here he's now

lining up lynches

but, again, no reason given for thinking Mulch is scum with me.

Even if he hadn't expressed lack of confidence in his abilities, these posts feel out of place. But the admission that he doesn't consider himself a strong player in combination with these posts makes me feel especially good about voting him right now. Two other bonus tidbits of fake-feeling Diamond comments include: him saying "If you want me to vote you, I can do that" while he appeared to be town reading me and blatantly ignoring the questions I asked him in posts 50-51, acting as if they didn't exist.

Come on people. Join me on this. At least I'm not repeating "Vote Diamond" over and over again without justifying it.

[Wickedestjr]

If my last post isn't reason enough, how about the fact that my bandwagon is actual garbage?

Most of the people voting for me have done nothing to sort/engage with me despite naked voting. Lycan is the only person that has really tried justifying his vote but he has misrepped so many of my actions/posts. And Viomi, if you are seriously voting me for inactivity then that is incredibly unreasonable. I've consistently been one of the more active players, sorry I needed to focus on real life for four or five days.

-I feel like he has tried too hard to be useful while actively holding back the game state

Literally makes no sense. How can I be trying to be useful and holding back the game state at the same time? My vote for kunkstar wasn't me holding back his progress. All my vote accomplished was it put pressure on him and put him one closer to a lynch. If my vote was holding him back in someway then that's entirely his fault (but I don't think it had that affect).

--For instance, he has pointed out how self sacrifice will guarantee flips. I'm sure everybody (1) questioned how perpetual mylo worked (2) looked at the setup (3) realized the game would last a single day (4) looked at the mechanics that made the game perpetual.

This is a bizarre/dangerous assumption to make and an incorrect one as Chara confirmed. Have you heard the phrase 'better safe than sorry' ?

-Maki is a peripheral scumread of mine, and Wicked has scumread her, pushed Diamond, and when he reached a lull, did not interact with Maki when she attempted to clear the air with him. Wicked re-appears to place a vote on Kunk many posts later, when he could have done so sooner.
--I feel like this is some kind of a misstep as Wicked's read on Maki has never evolved and he has placed no effort in sorting her. If he thinks Maki is town, he should work with her, and do anything to progress the game on that front. If he thinks Maki is scum, all he has to do is repeat it at some point? (e.g.

great, you're still scum though

) I've been trying to get people to express their reads on Maki, and he is unable to do that.

There are so many things wrong with this. First: I never scum read Maki. Second: I made three or four posts talking to Maki, we agreed to disagree so there was no need to continue interacting. Third: You have heavily criticized my vote for kunkstar. Now you're criticizing how long it took me to cast the vote? Fourth: Your point about me not sorting Maki is incredibly unreasonable. I need to be interacting with every player in the game? How about the players who are voting me but not doing anything to sort me? Fifth: You never asked me what my read on Maki was, so don't say I'm unable to give one.

I felt quite good about Wicked and Acidphoenix until Wicked interfered with Acid. That's why that is my main point. I saw a part of my own work in their posts. This is further complicated by acid's interaction with Wicked. I see Wicked as scum, while acid might be scum over someone like Mulch for example.

Wrong. Acid asked people for their thoughts on his plan - I gave my thoughts - unintentionally 'ruining' his gambit - I didn't know it was a gambit. How many times do I need to explain that?

And to this day, I still don't understand your 'group dynamics' thing. If I felt like that were an important concept in this setup, then I would have brought it up.

You have been grasping at straws Lycan.

[Wickedestjr]

This was a weird line of questioning:

Hey Maki tell me something..how did you go from

I don't really have much to say at the moment given the posts going on.

to this:

Will hammer acid happily if he gets to L-1 he's scum too

kunkstar why is it noteworthy that Maki's attitude changed when there was a difference of almost 300 posts between those two?

I've noted that wisdom has been defending diamond and I'm not sure if diamond has really been acknowledging this? Weird interactions there I think.

I agree with the DS/Wisdom scum reads, but for different reasons. Why does Diamond need to acknowledge that Wisdom is defending him?

Wick not sure? hated him scumhunting off his wagon. really disagree with some of his lines of attack on kunk.

...

kunk scum for 154 hasn't improved since

I was town reading UCV, but not a huge fan of this post. Firstly, I attacked kunkstar in large part because of his post 154. How can you call him scum for 154 but 'really disagree' with me attacking him for that? I don't understand.

Btw, was this a phone post?

[Wickedestjr]

Ugh. I thought Diamond had more votes than that. This has been a disappointing day.

Unvote. Vote: Viomi

I'll happily switch back to Diamond though.

[Wickedestjr]

Shuichi, I actually asked about the phone posting because of this:

brian scum, who replaced this?

Felt weird to me that you'd submit this before checking the op.

[Wickedestjr]

/cartoon

[Wickedestjr]

So you think he's scum because you seem to read.. more confidence in some posts and less confidence in others?

I don't even..

Not quite. My main point is that he seems unusually confident in some of his reads. The confidence that he expresses in those posts comes across as especially fake

because

at the beginning of the game he wasn't confident in himself.

Ugh. I thought Diamond had more votes than that. This has been a disappointing day.

Unvote. Vote: Viomi

I'll happily switch back to Diamond though.

Yeah no this is definitely scum trying desperately to get any of the other wagons to surpass his so he doesn't get lynched.

No, what you're doing here is trying to attach a scum motive to something that is completely standard regardless of my alignment. You are correct that I'm trying to get another wagon to surpass my own because I know that I'm a mis-lynch and deadline is today.

[Wickedestjr]

Ugh. I thought Diamond had more votes than that. This has been a disappointing day.

Unvote. Vote: Viomi

I'll happily switch back to Diamond though.

Also love how you don't give a single reason why you swapped to me other than I was the second biggest wagon. Nice.

Can we lynch this already?

Oh where was your reason for voting me?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh there wasn't one...

VOTE: wickedestjr

[Wickedestjr]

Not only that, but you're doing it

without giving any reason why it's me you're voting

. Implying you're not voting who you think is scum, you're voting whoever you can to not die. Which is anti-town, btw.

Unless you do have a reason. But I really doubt it- where's your wall on why I'm scum?

It would be much more anti-town for me to let my own lynch go through because I am 100% certain that I am town. I have never had a town read on your slot, I even threw acid into my scum team guess earlier.

Am I supposed to want to die as town?

And btw, I actually have mentioned issues that I've had with acid a long time ago.

Where's your wall on why I'm scum?

[Wickedestjr]

This is exactly the kind of ridiculousness that I've been putting up with all game. First Diamond, then Lycan, now Viomi.

There has never been a reason to lynch me and there still isn't. If town allows my lynch to go through then scum deserve to win.

[Wickedestjr]

Viomi is being completely hypocritical, accusing me for not giving any reasons for my 'compromise vote' when he didn't give any reasons for voting me either. Lynch him please.

[Wickedestjr]

Viomi is being completely hypocritical, accusing me for not giving any reasons for my 'compromise vote' when he didn't give any reasons for voting me either. Lynch him please.

I've given you my reasons. Your reason is "I don't wanna get lynched!"

Yes, but your (flawed) reason is based on something that happened after you voted me. So the original vote had no reason for it.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh a reaction test? Brilliant.

The first four votes weren't enough for me to react, but your's sure does the trick. What a coincidence that you chose to get a reaction test from the person that four other people were already voting.

[Wickedestjr]

VOTE: wicked

still think hes scum, and lots of the exchanges with viomi felt like scum theatre

I had

one

exchange with Viomi. If you're town then you're confbiasing pretty hard this game.

[Wickedestjr]

I want to look at acid/Viomi associatives tonight/tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Don't be pedantic.

If pointing out a blatant exaggeration or misleading comment makes me pedantic, then I need to be pedantic.

And if people really think I'm scum, then they shouldn't have to twist/inflate things to justify reading me that way unless they are trying to mislead people.

[Wickedestjr]

This game should be called "Mini 1955: Perpetual

MYLO

Wagon on Wicked". Has a nice ring to it.

Okay I've looked at everything pertaining to acid/Viomi from day 1. These are the things that stuck out to me:

• kunkstar's L-1 vote for Viomi was extremely pivotal. The decision was basically in his hands yesterday and there was no reason for him to vote for Viomi if they were partners in
  this setup
  .
  
• Originally, I thought Michael and Mulch felt kind of disingenuous but now that I know acid was scum, I am viewing them both in a better light. Especially Michael (now Dunnstral) because he actually made effort to push the lynch whereas Mulch was just noise. Michael's 391 and 401 look especially good in retrospect. acid's reaction also doesn't feel like scum talking to his partners.
  
• In post 102 acid admits to doing a gambit the immediate post after Lycan asks him a question about it. It was weird how quickly he gave up on this reaction test, because he could have just lurked/ignored Lycan and answered him later. But he answered Lycan immediately. It reads like acid-scum was more concerned about justifying his actions to Lycan rather than pretending to scum hunt.
  
• I had a slight town read on Maki by the end of yesterday, but there are a few posts from acid that are making me reconsider that. In post 59 acid says that he's scum reading Maki, but he subtly criticizes/undermines my vote for her in two different posts. The first time he criticizes me for not switching my vote from her to Diamond. The second time it's a little more blatant.
  
• Wisdom was the main opponent to the Viomi wagon yesterday and I don't know why he felt so strongly about Viomi-town. I would ask him why he was town reading acid/Viomi yesterday, but I know that he wouldn't answer. Normally, that type of behavior wouldn't bother me too much - but considering the setup and the fact that I know he's been pushing a mis-lynch instead makes me suspicious of him.
  
• Diamond's weird poking at acid and strong scum read of him on page 4 (after saying he doesn't consider himself good at mafia) makes more sense after seeing the Viomi scum flip.

TL;DR- Significant town points for kunkstar/Dunnstral, slight town points for Kaede/Lycan, slight scum points for Maki, and significant scum points for Diamond/Wisdom all just based on acid/Viomi interactions

Vote: DiamondSentinel

[Wickedestjr]

How many exchanges you divide

that interaction

into doesn't seem terribly significant to me.

The fact that you say 'that interaction' shows that you agree with me that it was just one interaction. It might not matter to you, but I personally have trouble biting my tongue when someone is stretching the truth about me. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not.

If Wisdom is town, then he shouldn't ever have to incorporate dishonesty in his posts - but it was very misleading for him to say that there were

lots

of bad exchanges between Viomi and I.

VOTE: wicked

still think hes scum, and lots of the exchanges with viomi felt like scum theatre

I had

one

exchange with Viomi. If you're town then you're confbiasing pretty hard this game.

Do you think he's town confbiassing or scum.

At the time that I wrote that post, I was on the fence. But after rereading, I think he's scum.

eh. i guess i'm not scumreading you after all.
UNVOTE:
Viomi/Wicked/Lycan/kunkstar/Dunnstral?

That's a quick turnaround. Can you explain what happened to change your mind here?

[Wickedestjr]

The wagon on me needs to disappear. There is nothing special about my interaction with Viomi. I certainly don't feel like my side of it was any different from my spats with Diamond or Lycan. And it is incredibly unreasonable to judge my alignment based on Viomi's behavior when she was scum about to get lynched. She had just replaced in and I was the first person that she attacked for any reason - so there's literally nothing to compare this too. If she expressed an unusual amount of confidence, then it was because she was desperately trying to save herself.

[Wickedestjr]

Btw this is probably scum:

Compare

how confident wicked was

viomi was scum when addressing him as opposed to any of his other posts

throw in the mix that

he only reluctantly voted him

when he could no longer avoid it

Pretty blatant cog dis. Wisdom has never cared about trying to determine my alignment.

[Wickedestjr]

Actually

Unvote. Vote: Wisdom

[Wickedestjr]

@Maki, Chara - why would kunkstar-scum vote for Viomi if I am town?

[Wickedestjr]

@Chara, Maki: From my perspective, I'm having trouble seeing why kunkstar-scum would vote for Viomi as opposed to me. The only way it would make sense is if we were both scum, but I know that not to be the case. I asked this question because I wanted to know if there's something I'm missing about this.

In particular, if you can't explain kunkstar-scum voting his partner instead of a mis-lynch, then that would mean your scum read on kunkstar is contingent on me being scum too. That's why I don't understand you voting for him before me.

[Wickedestjr]

Shuichi, if you are town, then I feel like you are starting to conf-bias here. I think these posts from you are pretty unreasonable:

The fact that you say 'that interaction' shows that you agree with me that it was just one interaction. It might not matter to you, but I personally have trouble biting my tongue when someone is stretching the truth about me. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not.

If Wisdom is town, then he shouldn't ever have to incorporate dishonesty in his posts - but it was very misleading for him to say that there were lots of bad exchanges between Viomi and I.

You could easily call it several bad exchanges depending on your personal definition of 'exchange' but more importantly calling it dishonesty to add an S to a word seems... like dishonesty

I made eight posts during that conversation, centered around one topic of discussion (Viomi and I were arguing about my vote for her). Wisdom votes me for "lots of the exchanges with viomi felt like scum theatre". My whole point is that this statement doesn't truly describe the events of day 1 but feels like it's written to mislead people and to make people think the case against me is stronger than it actually is.

And I'm not saying this is a strong scum tell by any means, but I feel like it's a microcosm of my bandwagon as a whole and it's frustrating that you are defending it. I'm repeatedly seeing people use misleading language with the intent to push my bandwagon (first Diamond, then Lycan, and now Wisdom).

If I'm such obvious scum that nobody even wants to question me, then why do they have to inflate things to show that I'm mafia?

Btw this is probably scum:

Compare

how confident wicked was

viomi was scum when addressing him as opposed to any of his other posts

throw in the mix that

he only reluctantly voted him

when he could no longer avoid it

Pretty blatant cog dis. Wisdom has never cared about trying to determine my alignment.

The whole point of this post is to point out cog-dis in YOUR posts.

I haven't fact-checked this so I'm not especially agreeing with Wis here but I don't think you're reading his post right.

I really don't think so. If you read each line in a vacuum, it sounds like an individual reason that he is discrediting me. "Throw in the mix" isn't something you say right before pointing out a contradiction. They are two separate criticisms that happen to contradict each other.

And fwiw, I never felt or expressed confidence about Viomi being scum so the first line is just wrong.

[Wickedestjr]

eeenie minie mini moe, i pray to god this will flip scum
VOTE: wicked

Wicked flips town, i blame anyone who isn't me. :>
i apologize for this game falling by the wayside. consider my vote there until i get a chance to look at the count.

my flip on all (by that i mean like, three) of my reads was because my reads didn't make sense with the gamestate. also, Wicked hasn't done anything impressive recently. ;>

Oh come on...

also, Wicked hasn't done anything impressive recently. ;>

Who has? #superstrongreasoning

[Wickedestjr]

You guys are acting like deadline's tomorrow. It's okay we have eleven days left.

[Wickedestjr]

Kaede, if you're having trouble with reads then why would you already be sheeping? I can understand struggling with reads but at the same time it doesn't feel like you're doing much to change that. The impression I get from reading your posts is that you're ready for the day to end rather than actually wanting to play the game and develop reads.

[Wickedestjr]

You were already voting for me.

And I'm not trying to be rude/mean, but am I wrong about that statement? For example, you could be questioning the person that you're voting instead of blindly okay'ing their lynch. But you're not even doing that.

And that image is also an accurate depiction of how

I

feel about you/Chara/others lazily supporting my bandwagon.

[Wickedestjr]

If you wanted me to change my ways or at least interact with me, complaining about me looking like not attempting to change my reads, when im clearly struggling to get anything going in my head isnt the way to do it, feels more like a potshot than a genuine concern.

I wasn't complaining. I was just trying to understand why you're playing this way.

What should I do if I want you to 'change your ways' then?

[Wickedestjr]

I've read your posts and I still don't get it.

[Wickedestjr]

I had a slight town read on Maki by the end of yesterday.

why

-Her first three or four posts of the game expressed concern with the setup. The concern feels genuine and I don't see her starting the game this way as scum.
-She was one of the few people not pushing my lynch.
-General gut feeling is that she seemed genuinely relaxed / not trying to earn town credit

[Wickedestjr]

like, if he's town scum aren't choosing him to go down. having him in the game at this point as an unknown is so frustrating to play around, even if i still want to townread him. i'd rather lynch Dunnstral. and if this was a normal game i'd be happier with just letting Wicked hang.
but i'll just trust the townreads minus Lycan that are on Wicked right now.

But I agree that I'm probably done today. Seems like every day that I post, someone finds a new way to misrep me.

[Wickedestjr]

Despite thinking Maki/Kaede were town earlier, my final guess is actually going to be: {Diamond, Wisdom, Maki, Kaede}

And when I flip town, I hope this is a lesson that sheeping is bad in this setup. Only takes one sheeping townie to screw everything up just like in

actual MyLo

. I think you should all put more thought into tomorrow's lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

But you said I wasnt trying, when I clearly was, so idk.

Is it a scum tell for me to say/believe that, though? Because it also felt like I angered you by saying that.

In general, if someone sheeps on a bandwagon that they're not really confident in (when there's still plenty of time left to discuss), then that feels like lack of effort to me.

Maybe im wrong?

I would suggest you figure that out soon.

And when I flip town, I hope this is a lesson that sheeping is bad in this setup.

Wait a second, im only the one sheeping, this post seems to assume im town, when you previously said i wasnt?

That comment was directed at several people. Your vote was sheepish. Shuichi's vote feels kind of sheepish to me. Chara and DS's support of the wagon feels sheepish as well. And kunkstar's "the Wicked wagon makes sense considering it was one all through D1" seems like a careless mindset to have even though he hasn't actually expressed sheeping intent. These are the behaviors I'm warning against because I know at least one of these players is town.

Also what made your read on Maki flip? She's not even voting you.

It's partially because of her interactions with acid (I made a post talking about that earlier this day phase). Also partially because she makes more sense as a partner to Wisdom/Diamond than my other neutral reads do.

[Wickedestjr]

because she makes more sense as a partner to Wisdom/Diamond

So she bused Acid and now she's busing Wisdom?
Is that what you're saying?

I'm saying my best guess for the scum team is {Diamond, Wisdom, Maki, you}. If that guess is correct, then yes, she would have bussed two of her partners.

Isnt that kinda... suicidal

Not really. She voted acid/Viomi yesterday, but she didn't make any effort to persuade anyone that they were scum. She's voting Wisdom now, but Wisdom is probably not getting lynched today.

[Wickedestjr]

Good enough if you choose Wisdom instead of me

[Wickedestjr]

Let's try it.

Unvote. Vote: DiamondSentinel

P-edit: I wouldn't say I've been a hard lynch. I was at L-2 with two people expressing intent to hammer. Diamond/Wisdom have never gotten more than three votes iirc.

[Wickedestjr]

I guess my point is he sounds pretty town in that game but isn't

Now, knowing that how do I read him? Hellifiknow. I'm sort of trying to read the game state around him instead.

For what it's worth, I genuinely felt like I was attacked for the wrong reasons in that game. Whether I'm right or wrong about that, I expressed that belief in this post from the scum PT. If you think I sounded townish in that game, it might be because I was

actually speaking honestly

. I felt like they were attacking me for my play style and I spent the entirety of the game citing self meta to try proving them wrong. I just wish they had listened.

[Wickedestjr]

Then again, if you were sounding towny that game how did you get lynched to begin with.

I'm not exactly sure. I replaced into that game with two days before deadline, so it all went down pretty quickly.

If your playstyle is something you can be attacked for, what makes you think of the way I feel about your posts being towny and the way you're being pushed by Wisdom and co?

I think you might have missed the point of my last post. Shuichi expressed concern that I was able to sound townish in my last game as scum. I think I have a pretty good scum game, so I'm not arguing with his concern. But I think the game that he linked is a horrible example because of the circumstances - that's all I was trying to say.

If you really want to get a feel for my scum meta, there are other games where I existed for more than two RL days.

[Wickedestjr]

Bah!

[Wickedestjr]

Congrats town! You guys were pretty scary to play against. Everyone was voting scum at the end of day 1.

I don't regret my decision to bus DiamondSentinel in and of itself, but I definitely pushed him too aggressively - probably more-so than I would have as town. It seems like Not_Mafia and Wisdom caught on to that and that wasn't a promising way to start the game. Sorry team.

As far as the setup goes, I still really like this setup and would definitely play again. Personally, I'm fine with the playing the game as is even if town has a mathematical disadvantage. But if balance is an issue for people (maybe that's why this game took so long to fill up), then maybe PM IV could explore a slight alteration in the mechanic. Another idea crossed my mind: Perpetual LyLo... 6 scum, 7 town, town need three out of six lynches to win. This way the setup can still be run as a mini game. And three out of six lynches is easier for town than three out of five lynches (36% as opposed to 24%). Doesn't have the same ring to it as 'best three out of five' but if you add some equity for the game dynamic (as we discussed a little bit in the dead thread), this might be pretty balanced.

Spoiler: math

TTT = 0.0932
TTST = 0.0500
TSTT = 0.0480
STTT = 0.0466
TTSST = 0.0266
TSTST = 0.0256
STTST = 0.0249
TSSTT = 0.0240
STSTT = 0.0233
SSTTT = 0.0224
TTSSST = 0.0133
TSTSST = 0.0128
STTSST = 0.0124
TSSTST = 0.0120
STSTST = 0.0117
SSTTST = 0.0112
TSSSTT = 0.0107
STSSTT = 0.0104
SSTSTT = 0.0099
SSSTTT = 0.0093

Total: 0.3551

As for the LyLo discussion, I'll have to check the rule set that I used. I don't remember exactly off the top of my head.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh okay. I guess the unique thing about PM II is that it incorporated plurality voting. I did allow for no-lynch in that game, but I suppose I didn't want it to happen more than once (Max didn't either). I think multiple no-lynches could cause the game to stall.

I also liked giving scum the option of making it LyLo if town decides to no-lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh and thanks for the game!