Micro 767: Spyro the Dragon Mafia - Game Over

[Wisdom]

i don't, and i find mass claim d1 stupid in any game

[Not_Mafia]

VC 1.05

Alisaes French Maid (0)-

garaputo (1)-

Radical Rat

northsidegal (1)-

Alisaes French Maid

Wisdom (0)-

Radical Rat (2)-

garaputo, BuJaber

BuJaber (3)-

Wisdom, UC Voyager, UC Voyager

(L-2)

UC Voyager (2)-

northsidegal, Kublai Khan

Kublai Khan (0)-

Not Voting (0)-

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-01-10 13:15:00) - Jan 10th 13:15 GMT

Spyro Trivia

The voices of Spongebob Squarepants and Mr. Krabs have both appeared in the Spyro series

[Kublai Khan]

i don't, and i find mass claim d1 stupid in any game

In all your time you've never seen a D1 mass claim benefit town? Really?

The most prominent pro-argument is that scum are locked into claims early on. It restricts their ability to make convincing claims both early on and allows town to uncover their thought process after a few cycles where their decision making makes no sense.

[garaputo]

Could someone who is arguing for the mass claim provide 1) logistics for how it happens, and 2) what the proposal is to handle refusals?

I think it's best to know the details of the plan before starting in.

[northsidegal]

alright, here's where i'm at so far. earlier, i talked about townreading half of the playerlist, but this is kind of a cop-out, considering that among those townreads are myself and the innocent child. however, this isn't an entirely pointless conclusion: given that this is a nightless game, process of elimination is all you need to win the game. it also means (at least, in a conventional, vanilla nightless game) that scum can't do anything to get rid of voices that they don't want heard, so in that respect i've failed so far in terms of towning.

Could someone who is arguing for the mass claim provide 1) logistics for how it happens, and 2) what the proposal is to handle refusals?

I think it's best to know the details of the plan before starting in.

i think the main strategy is popcorn – you start off with one person claiming, and that person decides who the next person is, and so on. i'm not actually sure how a refusal to participate is met, but i'd imagine it would be with votes.

[BuJaber]

If we're all agreed I suggest Khan picks one person to start, and then everyone follows.

[garaputo]

I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.

[Kublai Khan]

I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.

If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.

[Wisdom]

im not claiming either

[garaputo]

I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.

If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.

Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.

If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!

[Wisdom]

garaputo is right; all youve managed to do is halt the game and let scum hide in "lets claim" posts

[Kublai Khan]

I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.

If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.

Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.

If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!

I can be convinced to not go with the mass claim plan if you have a good argument. "It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

garaputo is right; all youve managed to do is halt the game and let scum hide in "lets claim" posts

You're halting the game by dodging/ignoring my questions. Convince me that mass claim is a bad idea.

Also, are you clearing garaputo? Why would scum be in the "lets claim" posts and not on the "lets not claim" side? Wouldn't scum likely be one on each side of this argument?

[Wisdom]

"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

ive played in like 150 games and none of them did it

the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.

[Kublai Khan]

"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

ive played in like 150 games and none of them did it

the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.

It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.

I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?

[Kublai Khan]

Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.

Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.

[Alisaes French Maid]

Scum likely have some kind of anti claim.

[Alisaes French Maid]

I disagree with this being good play tbh.
If we get 1 scum flip and see a role pm I will reevaluate my opinion.

[garaputo]

I think this plan is stupid and I am likely to refuse to claim on general principle.

If you refuse to claim and can't come up with a better argument than "the plan is stupid" then you will die.

Get the votes and do it then. I'd rather play mafia than whatever this claim or no claim thing is.

If you can convince everyone I'm scum because I don't want to go through with this bad plan, guess what, a game of actual mafia broke out!

I can be convinced to not go with the mass claim plan if you have a good argument. "It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

I don't have to convince you to cooperate, I can just go on playing mafia as if your plan is noise and get what I want. I don't have to have a reason (although I've actually stated one you've ignored) as what I'm advocating for is the default state here. You should consider that your plan will be at least partially unsuccessful should you continue advocating for it. I'm just giving you advance notice that should you continue down this path, when it comes time for me to claim, you'll have to deal with the fact that I won't.

garaputo is right; all youve managed to do is halt the game and let scum hide in "lets claim" posts

You're halting the game by dodging/ignoring my questions. Convince me that mass claim is a bad idea.

Also, are you clearing garaputo? Why would scum be in the "lets claim" posts and not on the "lets not claim" side? Wouldn't scum likely be one on each side of this argument?

I can tell you there's at least one town on the let's not claim side.

[garaputo]

"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

ive played in like 150 games and none of them did it

the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.

It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.

I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?

This logic is flawed.

1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.

Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.

Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.

Just because the game is nightless, it does not follow that vomiting all the role information into the thread won't hurt the town.

[garaputo]

Also, this game is nightless, which means no night-kills. So if everything is on the table, we can 1) work out a plan and 2) trap scum into claims they may regret.

Convince me of a reason not to mass claim that don't include the words "stupid" or "bad". I'm not trying to steamroll the game. You feel strongly about your position so convince me I'm wrong.

I said in post 118

the claim will likely allow the scum to zero in on the right folks to kill.

What have you said that acknowledges or contradicts this?

It's like you want to have an argument but don't want to bother reading what other people are saying.

[Wisdom]

Just because the game is nightless, it does not follow that vomiting all the role information into the thread won't hurt the town.

This; usually games that are nightless have some other mechanic in place; we know nothing about the setup right now

[Radical Rat]

"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

ive played in like 150 games and none of them did it

the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.

It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.

I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?

This logic is flawed.

1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.

I mean. From a neutral point of view he's a mod confirmed desperado IC.

[garaputo]

"It's not mafia!" is not a good argument given that I can likely search up and find plenty of games that have done a mass claim Day 1.

ive played in like 150 games and none of them did it

the good argument is that its crap. Its a closed setup and you dont know how scum benefit or not from knowing who is what. And its also against the spirit of the game.

It's certainly not against the "spirit of the game". The spirit of the game is to play towards win condition. If mass claiming helps that, then not mass claiming goes against the spirit of the game.

I'm town and if we assume that UC Voyager is town, then two non-vanilla roles have been outed, giving scum beneficial targets. So, does your argument still hold up?

This logic is flawed.

1) From a neutral point of view, it's not clear why you or UCV are town, let alone that you are not vanilla.

I mean. From a neutral point of view he's a mod confirmed desperado IC.

Derp on me for forgetting that Desperado IC part, but the lotic applies still to the collective form of "you" there.

[garaputo]

*logic.

[Radical Rat]

Well, the idea is that by claiming now, scum doesn't get a chance to lie later. We can't find scum immediately based on a claim, but if they get caught claiming or performing an action that contradicts this one, that's a pretty good indicator we wouldn't have without a massclaim.

And the telling scum who to kill argument is only valid if scum actually does have a way to kill people, which we have no reason to assume yet. But even if they do, Khan and Voyager have already claimed, so we're very likely to lose a PR either way.