Open 707 - JK9++ [Endgame]

[RedFlavor]

kop's questions to mathdino about others and himself seems ok and townie.
And other people are null
BTW, I have 3 finished games here but I played a few games on other sites

[Mathdino]

Can you elaborate on some of these, because this is striking me as forced reads. Your accusing me of looking forced, this is more forced shit rather than actual reads.

How does Almost50 look town, what does town look like? He's made one RVS vote, and one filler post. How does that make him look town?

Creature, if you believe he is nullscum, why aren't you voting him since he's virtually your only scum read?

Impede, how is he towning around?

Jay, so your happy to lynch someone just to learn them to stop acting scummy, rather than actually lynching someone who you scum read? Do you scum read Jay or not?

Myself, your talking about policy lynching someone on page 4, and no reason because Fitz has painted myself as a policy lynch because of previous games.

Overall, reading these reads, I don't think they are actually genuine reads right now, and is just trying to look active.

VOTE: Mathdino

ugh you're really making me work
i get this shit every D1

A50: Town off gut. His random vote seems pretty natural and not the kind of hostile thing scum would go for early on.

Creature: Because I'm already voting/scumreading you? I don't need to answer to you where my vote is . I also like wagons better than singular votes.

Impede: I answered this one pay attention

Jay: I don't believe at this point that anything Jay does is alignment indicative, because he purposefully puts on an act/facade as both alignments. This masks his scumplay while giving him plausible deniability because he acts equally weird as town. Given that he plays like a survivor and apparently doesn't wanna be good enough to get shot by scum, I would call him a LyLo liability and would be fine with a lynch on him at any point (I'm a Lynch All Survivors kinda guy) until he cuts the act and gives us something readable.

You: I'm not gonna answer this one. How does that make you feel?

Yes, I force reads at the beginning of every D1. Builds a foundation on which I can develop future reads, gets my momentum going. And I guess it generates discussion or some shit; everyone's discussing it. I'm not so inconfident as to believe that I can't read early posts, but I'm also not so arrogant as to think that those reads won't change. And when they do change, I'll say so, so you guys can see the path of my thought process through the day. That's the point.
The only games where I don't do reads lists and shit is when I'm confirmed town. No point in giving you guys a record of my thoughts when you already know for sure I'm town.

[Hawk]

kop's questions to mathdino about others and himself seems ok and townie.
And other people are null
BTW, I have 3 finished games here but I played a few games on other sites

Thanx,

Clarify this for me if you would

"I don't think that Mathdino is scum because posting reads this early will start a discussion and a scum would not do that. The part where he says "he speaks like a player and not a townie?" is kinda weird tho"

What was kinda weird? Why did you point that out.

[Hawk]

kop's questions to mathdino about others and himself seems ok and townie.
And other people are null
BTW, I have 3 finished games here but I played a few games on other sites

Thanx,

Clarify this for me if you would

"I don't think that Mathdino is scum because posting reads this early will start a discussion and a scum would not do that. The part where he says "he speaks like a player and not a townie?" is kinda weird tho"

Why was that

kinda weird? Why did you point that out.

EWOP

[Mathdino]

My vote stands on Mr. "Votes A Guy For Making A Reads List".

@Almost50:

Where the fuck do you think I got my town lean on you?

@Red:

Because people apparently can't read between the lines, when I say "he speaks like a player and not a townie" that literally means I lowkey think Kop is scum.

Getting town vibes from Assemble. Red is probably surface-level-scumhunting town (lol at "scum would not start a discussion").

I'm torn on Hawk. I love his post 96 and I think it's objectively #goodposting but I can't bring myself to townread it.

@Hawk:

ey bby hit me up with one of ur dopeass scumgames pretty pls

I was going to townread Impede but his last post makes me feel iffy.

Might do a questions list later on if I feel like it, might not.

[Almost50]

A50: Town off gut. His random vote seems pretty natural and not the kind of hostile thing scum would go for early on.

Thank you. That's exactly what I thought your explanation would be like (within the limits of the rules).

[Almost50]

@Almost50:

Where the fuck do you think I got my town lean on you?

EXACTLY what you said. Even more precisely; the

reasoning

I put for my RVS vote on Redflavor.

[Mathdino]

well you're clearly aware of it so that nulls the fuck out of my read

thanks dude

[Almost50]

Aware? Yes.
Null? Absolutely NOT. Not unless you think my sole goal is to get TR'd by YOU specifically, bc nobody else would ever give a TR based on THAT.

[Almost50]

In short: You are CORRECT in your TR on me, but the reason itself is somewhat not reliable (rake that as a reference for future games), as I usually do have some cute reason to vote someone in RVS. I just made an enlightened guess as to why you would be TRing me this early and O happened to be spot on.

P.S. If you want me to be totally unreadable to you just say so. I could do that you know.

[Hawk]

My vote stands on Mr. "Votes A Guy For Making A Reads List".

@Almost50:

Where the fuck do you think I got my town lean on you?

@Red:

Because people apparently can't read between the lines, when I say "he speaks like a player and not a townie" that literally means I lowkey think Kop is scum.

Getting town vibes from Assemble. Red is probably surface-level-scumhunting town (lol at "scum would not start a discussion").

I'm torn on Hawk. I love his post 96 and I think it's objectively #goodposting but I can't bring myself to townread it.

@Hawk:

ey bby hit me up with one of ur dopeass scumgames pretty pls

I was going to townread Impede but his last post makes me feel iffy.

Might do a questions list later on if I feel like it, might not.

Sure you only want my scumgames??

This is probably my worst scumgame as far as how i played I think

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=70520

This is the best.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=70985

I haven't been site side for a while do to personal reasons and needing a break.

[JaydragonKing]

After stumbling my first game, I learned I like the way I play now, and it will eventually adapt, but that's for future me to deal with. What I don't get is the fact your already pushing me out as a liability, Dino. If you want to discredit me in the game, do it when I actually have something really tangible to push against.

Your also even more pushy then before, too. Thinking about what kop said, with you trying so early and yard to get out reads, I'm inclined to believe his statement until further evidence is given.

[Mathdino]

After stumbling my first game, I learned I like the way I play now, and it will eventually adapt, but that's for future me to deal with. What I don't get is the fact your already pushing me out as a liability, Dino. If you want to discredit me in the game, do it when I actually have something really tangible to push against.

Your also even more pushy then before, too. Thinking about what kop said, with you trying so early and yard to get out reads, I'm inclined to believe his statement until further evidence is given.

I've done meta on you, and I'm going off that meta, not off anything else (don't talk about or reference ongoing games, the circumstances may be different). I understand that your playstyle works for you; my perspective is I like to be able to read players and I'm generally okay lynching players I find unreadable. In your case I think that unreadability is purposeful.

That said, this is a misrep. I made a list of all players that had posted during RVS and came up with a read on them. Yours was the following:

Jay: seems to be actively playing to his own meta. i don't think his behavior is super alignment indicative in general, and he's kind of a fluffy fluffer. i'm good with lynching him as a player until he learns not to be scummy. but then again he's probably town doing that weird "forced meta" thing

It was only after Kop questioned me about it that I expanded and posted what you're now responding to. My intent was not to push you as a lynch or make lynching you a massive topic of discussion because I think that's, right now, a distraction from actual scumhunting.

If you believe him on me being scum, why aren't you voting me?

[JaydragonKing]

That's me remembering three separate scenerios and seeing that me holding back my vote on you gives me more power in the future. Rather have the hammer vote as a personal option, and I can't do that if I'm the second one to vote for you.

[Mathdino]

You realise that it benefits scum more than town to withhold your vote all day?

[JaydragonKing]

It benefits me because I can usually hold it until I've gotten what I need. Seeing how everyone's pushing me to get it over with, what mistakes people make in their argument that somebody else points out and the day goes on with heated debate, and should I happen to be scum in LyLo, be able to quick hammer really well, I just like the idea of holding it back as either alignment.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: JaydragonKing

You don't seem to understand that you're intentionally being anti-town. Or you do understand and don't really care. This game is not about personal benefit, it's a team game.

Because people will inevitably ask me, no, I don't have a read on this guy, when I earlier said that he's "probably town doing that forced meta thing" I meant he literally has a 75% chance of being town. But whatever.

[JaydragonKing]

It's not anti-town in my eyes, because it means that if I gain something, everyone else around me gains insight as well. Me holding back as town means we have longer for scum to make a tiny mistake. Me holding back means people here who are either smarter and/or more experienced have more material to work with.

I'm being more of a team player now with being honest with you. This is the current way I know that helps the situation.

[Hawk]

It's not anti-town in my eyes, because it means that if I gain something, everyone else around me gains insight as well. Me holding back as town means we have longer for scum to make a tiny mistake. Me holding back means people here who are either smarter and/or more experienced have more material to work with.

I'm being more of a team player now with being honest with you. This is the current way I know that helps the situation.

It's anti-town in general tho... if town players don't put up votes and it is pro-town to hold your vote then all players (scum a like) would hold their votes until the last few hours of a day and then panic would settle in as people cast votes.

Withholding your vote is partially like being absent from the conversation. As town there are appropriate times to sit back and wait. An entire days worth because you want to see and wait is poor play from town and is basically coasting for scum...

[yessiree]

VC 1.4

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

JaydragonKing (4) -

Creature, RedFlavor, UnabombaH, Mathdino

RedFlavor (2) -

Almost50, momo

Kop (1) -

havingfitz

UnabombaH (1) -

Impede

Mathdino (1) -

Kop

Not voting

- BigFinn, Assemblerotws, Hawk, JaydragonKing

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-01-12 08:00:00)

[UnaBombaH]

I still need the time to nitpick-read, I can't fully participate until then.

Dino and Elsa are polar opposites to me playstyle-wise.
I like Dinos thought process, and I dislike Elsas approach to the game. Totally NAI, I think, but I am honestly willing to just policy lynch her for it.

Nevertheless, I need the time to read and will post on computer next time to push for discussion outside of her.
I think its OK to do policy lynch D1, but we need to not make it the only discussion theme for the day..

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE: Kop while I'm...

v/LA until Wednesday for New Year's stuff.

Happy New Year to you all.

[Kop]

It benefits me because I can usually hold it until I've gotten what I need. Seeing how everyone's pushing me to get it over with, what mistakes people make in their argument that somebody else points out and the day goes on with heated debate, and should I happen to be scum in LyLo, be able to quick hammer really well, I just like the idea of holding it back as either alignment.

I don't agree with this. Withholding your vote does nothing to the cause, if anything makes you appear more scummy because you simply don't want to get involved in pressuring other players, and by pressuring them that is adding your vote to them, which makes them talk more than just asking questions without them being under pressure. Asking questions does get them talking but adding pressure by adding a vote with those questions you can get a better feeling to whether they are being genuine or fobbing you off. It also helps others get a feeling too.

At the minute you are putting yourself into a place where you are simply diverting all the attention onto yourself by trying to paint yourself as looking genuine, when in reality your putting yourself up as the lynch of the day. Because everything you've said you aren't doing. So instead of just answering yourself to math, why don't you actually go and do some scum hunting and start getting reads on people.

[Kop]

@math I understand your reason by how or why you've posted the reads, I just felt they were forced rather than actual reads. Some of them I didn't agree with but I'll follow your thoughts and see how you progress with them.

[Kop]

Haven't really dug into the game yet but on a quick skim everyone's still pretty null.

Nice to see familiar faces tho. How have you guys been? Did y'all miss me? Fitz, kop, momo, and creature?

Nice to see you again hawk. It's been a while.

Scum aren’t likely to come to the direct defense of a partner. Esp D1.

I do agree that Math’s reads seem a bit stretchy, but I don’t think it’s AI just yet, as he could just be trying to stimulate discussion.

Why do you think they won't? How would you know that scum won't, because in reality they can do it at any stage, unless that person they are defending is within lynch territory which they won't openly defend, they will let them go if that is the way the tide is going. But at this stage only Jay is within lynch territory so any defending right now of anyone doesn't spell out they can't be scum because they won't defend someone, especially on day one.