Open 704: Switch (Game Over)

[Sauce]

Unfortunately I'm also still pondering what made you switch to Raya, and you not doing anything to help me clear up that mystery is not helping is not making it easy to townread you, nor has anyone else convinced me that their townread -- where applicable -- is legit.

[mutantdevle]

Stop vighunting. Nuff said.

I already know who the VIG is... SIR! Do you also want me to tell you where I got it from???

When you say that you know who the vig is, do you mean you are the vig or that you have a pretty good idea who it is?

What's it to you? If you think I'm the Vig you should either keep quiet about it (if you're Town) or just shoot me (if you're Mafia/SK). In other words, if I say I am the Vig I'm setting myself for the NK for sure, and if I deny it I'm giving scum one less target to worry about shooting, and I'm not about to give scum the satisfaction of knowing which it is.

Then why would you make the original post in the first place?

[Almost50]

Then why would you make the original post in the first place?

Because I do! That's all I have to say about the subject for now. You asking for clarification on whether it's me or someone else IS vig hunting to me, but -of course- "nobody" else would even see it because they're too far in with their tunneling and too proud to admit they are wrong and were proven wrong already in their SR on the Town Cop.

[Sauce]

Oh you mean the role that had extra information, which most often defines what mafia is.

[Sauce]

Yeah I could've entertained the scenario of Math getting a guilty on someone, against all odds. I'm so dumb I didn't, such a bad player indeed.

[Sauce]

Such a noob. Oh well. I'm pretty sure the extra information part doesn't apply to you, though.

[Sauce]

Not in a good way at least.

[Chip Butty]

Okay, here's how I'm looking at this now.

Question: why are Raya and Lalendra dead?

First, like I said before, I think mafia always shoots the cop there. I can see R or L as vig shots. L was pretty much innocuous town, and I think Math was trying to direct the shot there. The real question is thus: Why did the SK shoot into L/R?

I think if the SK chose immunity from NK, he/she shoots the cop most of the time. The exception is if they assume mafia will do it. Otoh, if they chose vig/cop protection, they don't want to kill the cop. I think we can say they chose vig/cop protection, which means they can only be townkilled by lynching. So the SK will want to kill mafia.

That might explain the Raya shot. But HavingFitz was runner-up in the vote, so would seem like a natural choice. Unless HF is the SK. Another possibility is that the SK just didn't buy the case on him. But then, why buy the case on Raya, which wasn't strong? I think HFis a good candidate for SK.

Inb4 "SK-hunting is scummy": Think about it. With 2 scum among 8 slots, eliminating one of those from mafia contention is a significant gain. More importantly, even though the SK will be gunning for mafia, chances are they'll hit town again, and at this point we need to stanch the flow of blood. Also, I'm going to use this assumption to hunt scum in the next few hours.

As of now, I'm down to

VOTE: HavingFitz

[Chip Butty]

That MIGHT change in a few hours.

[Chip Butty]

Is it in town's best interest to eliminate Bins today?

If Bins is the sk...scum is going to want her out of the game for their wincon AND to stop her from f'ing with the switches. Mafia ABSOLUTELY want sk!Bins to be lynched today. If sk!Bins is left alive today...does mafia dare not shoot her tonight?

If Bins is fakeclaiming mafia...wouldn't the real sk be inclined to kill her? We could just let tbd!Bins last one more night and if she isn't killed (by mafia...or sk?) we could just insta-lynch her tomorrow.

If she is the sk letting her live through tonight would/should kind of handcuff mafia into killing her tonight. And or possibly handcuff a real sk to killing her. Letting her live just f's up scum plans this evening either way and frees town up to vote someone else today (ex. Raya or Maxous)...cause I doubt either of them is getting nk'd anytime soon.

Thoughts?

Thoughts incoming...

[Chip Butty]

Scum is Bins/Raya/Maxous/Fitz I think

You might have up to three correct. Good luck!

Mafia ABSOLUTELY want sk!Bins to be lynched today. If sk!Bins is left alive today...does mafia dare not shoot her tonight?

Wrong if she's guilty she would have nk immunity

I'm not wrong about mafia wanting sk!Bins lynched. But good point about mafia nk immunity. Looks like Bins it is.

:/

Okay, looks like it might be a genuine oversight...

[Chip Butty]

...or not, if wine is on the table.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.05

Chip Butty (3) - Maxous, Almost50, Elmo TeH AzN
havingfitz (2) - Sauce, Chip Butty
Maxous (1) - Not_Mafia

Not Voting (2) - havingfitz, mutantdevle

With 8 votes, it will take 5 to reach majority.

The deadline is Sunday, January 14, 2018, at 9:00 PM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2018-01-14 21:00:00).

Moderator Comments

havingfitz is on V/LA from December 29 to January 3.

[Chip Butty]

HavingFitz is due back on the 3rd.

I noticed in reading his ISO that his read on Lalendra stared townish then became progressively worse. He also seemed suspicious of Raya. I'm starting to think he isn't SK, since killing that pair would be kind of blatant.

[Chip Butty]

Guys, the way Chip Butty and MD manipulated yesterday's lynch just makes me believe they are scum together

the way things are going

VOTE: Chip Butty

Momo and Mutant share VI qualities...

Has anyone seen them in the same room together?

Are you actually throwing shade at me over that? And what exactly is it that I am doing that is making you repeatedly refer to me as a VI?

I think we both know the answer to the second question. But, I have to admit, less so here. I don't know what that means in terms of alignment.

[mutantdevle]

I think we both know the answer to the second question.

You've never actually explained. As I said earlier, being wrong does not make someone an idiot.

[Chip Butty]

Chip's "what does this have to do with scumhunting?" question was reasonable but the "are you trying to look busy????" is classic suspicion-throwing in the form of asking dumb questions that amount to "are you scum using [x] strategy?" which everyone will always answer 'no' to.

I don't think I ever replied to this, so ftr: It's called a "rhetorical question". Of course I didn't expect HF to reply "Oh damn! You got me! Yes, I am scum. Well done, Chip, nothing gets past you!"

[Chip Butty]

I think we both know the answer to the second question.

You've never actually explained. As I said earlier, being wrong does not make someone an idiot.

We probably shouldn't discuss it further atm. All right, I'll let up. You seem less VI-ish here anyway. Again, I don't know what that means for alignment, if anything.

[Chip Butty]

Fair enough. Still not something I would likely do but I see more logic in it now. The way you posted it seemed like you were really confident but I'm correct it's more of a confirmation that your scumreads make sense. I was mostly asking this question since if irc ealier you said something about pre-flip associations being bad or you were scum reading someone for it.

VOTE: bins
I'll look back over things in a few.

I think with this claim our best shot is lynching bins.

Thanks Captain Obvious

Since we can't lynch town anyway, I'm actually more interested in lynching one of her partners today and having the vig or SK shoot her tonight. Lynching Bins is the lazy way out. We have 10 pages of associations to look over.

Since we can't lynch town anyway, I'm actually more interested in lynching one of her partners today and having the vig or SK shoot her tonight.

Not sure outting yourself, if true, was the best thing. Why aren't you voting Bins?

With switches there's no guarantee Bins gets vigged...maaybe the sk does it? But if you're full of shit and Bins is town and we mislynch today instead of "guilty" Bins...and town Bins is nk'd...then idfk....town's pretty much really screwed. Plus if Bins is scum and turns out to be the vig switch....good for the town.

I'll wait till Bins responds before I consider moving my vote.

P.edit...didn't factor last few posts

This is HF's first post after Math hardclaimed. I'm not crazy about it. He asks why Math isn't voting Bins, when Math answered that just a few posts back.

[Chip Butty]

Considering I was already scumreading Fitz and Sauce, I am probably not the best person to answer your question. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

I would like to lynch confscum (I believe Math's claim and am willing to sheep someone I consider to be reliable town PR), but understand that it would be better to wait and see how much info we can get. Weird that all three went silent after Math's proclamation (aside from Fitz's single half-hearted retort) but could be coincidence. I'm hesitant to say we have it figured out but this is a good start.

tl;dr I'm down with voting Fitz, Sauce or Bins, don't particularly care in what order.

This might be relevant...was Lalendra killed because of her likely d2 vote?

[Chip Butty]

Oh shit, I genuinely thought Bins was townie. Guess I was wrong (obviously).

I made a mental note to myself earlier that I thought bins and sauce seemed friendly. But rereading the parts where they mention each other I have no idea why. Other than that, on gut I would say that from rereading Bins' ISO her potential scum partners are Elmo and maxous.

Btw, we should probably ignore everything bins says now. OFC she's going to try and throw us off and confuse us.

Oh and don't lynch Bins until the end of the day. I would have said to not lynch Bins at all until MyLo but then Fitz reminded me that Bins could be the vig switch. If she is, it would be VERY useful to have her lynched today.

I don't like that last part about being reminded Bins could have been the vig switch. Of course, ANYONE could be the vig switch...

So, Elmo and Maxous, huh? I'll be keeping an eye out for unjustified changes...

[Chip Butty]

I've significantly warmed up to the idea of Maxous being scum lately.

Flipped cop read.

[Chip Butty]

I'm actually feeling pretty sold on fitz being scum over Raya.

Flipped cop read.

[Chip Butty]

Maxous is almost definitely scum then, if he was so adamant that Bins didn't scumslip.

Flipped cop read.

[Chip Butty]

I think Bins is lying but whatever Kill mutant

VOTE: Raya

This might have come out later, I can't remember, but why not voting Bins here?